Wah Gwan Zavala - Can Garver be Trusted as the Backup Catcher? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

John Trupin
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Kate Preusser
The podcast associated with lookoutlanding.com dot I am the managing editor of lookoutlanding.com, kate Prusser. I am joined here today by my regular squad, my besties.

John Trupin, deputy managing editor hello, John. How are you?

John Trupin
Oh, we are. We are Monday, Monday after a sweep cruise.

Kate Preusser
Loving it.

John Trupin
That is what we are.

Kate Preusser
Loving it. Yes, the Mariners have won six of their last seven games, and I mean, granted, a good chunk of those were against the corpse of the 2024 White Sox, but still, we are feeling good. We finally have a day off, which, of course, we are spending creating more content around baseball because not a day goes by during the season where we are not thinking or doing things about that. And in order to create this podcast, we have audio engineer Evan James. Evan, how are you?

Evan James
No, I'm doing. I'm doing great. How am I going to have a bad time when the Mariners sweep Texas? So nothing but good things from the Mariners. From watching baseball, it's been a lot of fun, especially when George Kirby really turns it on. Over the last three, four starts, he's been nails, and his season in particular has been one of the weirder ones for me to watch, given how invested I am in his success. And so seeing him get back on the horse and be the Cy Young candidate I believe in, in particular has been really fun. So I'm having a good time.

Kate Preusser
Zachary having a good time. That was very smart of them to reshuffle the rotation. We should really give a hat tip to Emerson Hancock here, who came up and did kind of a yeoman's work, hero's work really to help the, the top of the rotation a get an extra day of rest. That gives Brian woo an extra day of rest and also push back that top of the rotation a little so that that's what Texas has to face coming into Seattle. And it was real rough for them. They had a rough time.

John Trupin
It was, it was shades of a little bit, you know, like when the Mariners had Marco Gonzalez just go out and like, throw, throw like 120 pitches in, like the final game of the regular season in 2022 or whatever just to, like, set the rotation for. For the playoffs. Like, it's not something that usually comes up that much in the middle of the season like this. And it really was. I completely agree about, like, Emerson Hancock has not, you know, had the year or the project or the career. Yes, the career thus far that, you know, certainly we would have hoped for him, but it is absolutely a credit to him that he is a viable, you know, replacement option to come up, you know, to ride the shuttle up and down as, as the Mariners need him. And I think that they'll probably do this again at some point this year and it'll probably be really valuable even if it doesn't result in a six and one home stand, which is pretty, pretty near the ideal outcome.

Kate Preusser
John, I'd like to ask you, because I wrote about Emerson Hancock. There is an article on the site about how he is embracing failure and, yeah, basically about how his career has not looked like maybe he wanted it to, but he has really taken these lessons. He's trying to get better.

He's working on stuff in Tacoma, and it's incredibly valuable that the Mariners, when they need him, have been able to call upon him this year to take the place of Brian Wu, who's still struggling with becoming a starter, which is a whole other separate thing to talk about. But, you know, as they're like, kind of working through his very unique challenges, Hancock has been there just ready to take the ball. And I think that that's a real luxury for the team. There was kind of an argument in the comments on the article about, like, no, he's a very steep standard six starter. He's. His numbers are not that good. He's not that good. Like, this is nothing special. And I just feel like that's a. I feel like that's a. Certainly Hancock is not what I thought he would be when watching him at Georgia, but I think he is.

He is definitely better than most teams average six starter. And I think there's an argument to make that he's better than a lot of teams. Fifth starter?

Evan James
Yeah. What do people think fist starters are if he's not particularly special? Like, I'm a little confused by that.

John Trupin
I would agree.

At the, at a minimum, I think the, you know, the think about who the 6th starter for the Mariners has been for the past several years.

Evan James
Yovani Gallardo.

Kate Preusser
Cool.

John Trupin
Yvonne Yovani Gardo.

Evan James
It's like a dick now.

John Trupin
No, I mean, really. It has been Darren Macaquen. It has been Asher Wojcikowski. Asher Wojcikowski.

Evan James
Tommy Malone.

John Trupin
Yeah.

Tommy Malone.

What's his face? The Christian Bergman. You know, like metal dad.

That is what it's been for several years.

And, you know, their current circumstances. You know. Yes, Hancock is not performing at such a, such an incredible rate, but I think he, when he is healthy, delivers a pretty consistent baseline of performance that the fact there just aren't that many teams that can call up and send down a guy who can be that fine with a little bit more upside.

Kate Preusser
Zachary I think if you want like a pure rotation level six starter type, Jonathan Diaz. Right. Like, that is what most teams. Teams have to call.

And you saw him like, he, he, he did fine. He hung in there. But it was definitely, he was tiptoeing around in a way that I don't think Hancock really has to. He's got enough weapons to get through a lineup. It's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be sterling. But he also. Go ahead.

John Trupin
Well, just, I'll also add, like no other team has, like the Mariners might probably don't have. They don't have the best number one, you know, starter in the league. They probably don't have the best number two starter in the league. Maybe not even the best number three starter, though. That's where you, you would be, I think, getting close.

They absolutely have the best fifth starter in the league. Right. Brian Wu, when healthy, is the best number five starter in baseball. I think fan graphs wrote something relatively similarly about that. Like, the performance that the Mariners get at the number five spot in their rotation is vastly better than most teams and is fundamentally better than every team. That is simply what the mariners like. Best strength is right now is one through five. They are getting an above average starting rotation performance.

It's not just that Hancock is passable, but it is that he is not creating such a cliff to drop off of a lot of other teams. The difference between their fifth starter and their 6th starter, it barely matters because their fifth starter, like Evan noted, also sucks. Or, you know, is, is, you know, just not that, you know, consistent or not that reliable. So the fact that the Mariners. Yes, Hancock is worse. He is worse than wu, um, when, you know, when the two are healthy, but that he is okay. That he is, you know, I mean, again, I don't have anything against Darren McCaakin, but, like, the man came out in his first game, I don't think he recorded a strikeout in five innings. He, you know, dip, duck dive, dodged and dodged his way through the Rockies, and then he got just absolutely slamma jammed by the Houston Astros in his second start. And that's to be expected because he throws 88 miles an hour, and he is good against AAA. But Hancock is okay against major leaguers. That's a huge luxury, even if it isn't, you know, it allows them to do stuff like this weekend where they don't have to panic about, you know, getting a little bit of extra rest to extend the roster. It's the same thing with having a, you know, someone like Dylan Moore on your team where you can cycle guys through the DH role or cycle guys onto the bench, in theory, who maybe have more injury risk because you have a backup.

Kate Preusser
Right.

John Trupin
That is not a crater, uh, you know, a crater beneath. Now, has that manifested because of other issues in the roster? I don't know, but in theory, that, you know, and that has played a role in years past as well.

Kate Preusser
So it's also made them kind of matchup proof, right? Like that the White Sox rolled into town and had.

It just so happened, the way the dice shook out. They had their best part of the rotate, which I was very surprised. I was, you know, I've been internalizing so much stuff about the 2024 White Sox and how much they suck, blah, blah, blah. But, like, their rotation, I was quite impressed by the Fetty crochet, obviously.

John Trupin
Yeah.

Kate Preusser
Jonathan Cannon, I mean, I think he's a good back end starter.

I don't know how that looks once teams get a little more exposure to him. But, you know, they had their best guys.

The Mariners did not, and they still come out on top in that scenario because they are so broad, you can't attack.

And, yeah, they might not be number one in any particular category, but they're high enough up in everyone that overall, the strength across the board is just always going to play out in their favor.

Evan James
A couple of podcasts ago, you said that the knock against the Mariners is that they have a bunch of number four pitchers who look like they're number twos when they pitch number three fours who look like they're number twos, number ones when they pitch in T mobile Park. I actually looked up. I started by both war and exfip. At the time that you said that the Mariners, all four of their top five starting pitchers were, I think the lowest was at the time Bryce Miller, who was like 58. So they were all within the top 60. If you figure there's, you know, there's 30 teams, there's 30 number ones in the league. By that math, they're all a bunch of number twos. And actually, as it is today, if you start by ex fifth, the highest is George Kirby at 15. Then we have Louis or Gilbert at 22, Luis Castillo at 33, and Bryce Miller at 37. Brian Wu obviously doesn't quite have the numbers yet to make this rank, but that's like four number ones in a 1.1, right? Like, that's insane.

John Trupin
It is exceptional. It is exceptional stability. I think one part of this is. Is around how you define, like, number one starter, number two starter, number three starter. For. For some. Some folks definition, it's like the number one starter is everyone, every team, you know, there are 30 number one starters. For some people, it's. There are one to five number one starters, you know, and then there's more twos, you know, a bunch of threes, a bajillion fours, etc. Etc.

Evan James
That's the difference between saying, like, a number one versus, like, an ace pitcher is what I might call, like, you know, the top five guys in the league. But, yeah, that's.

John Trupin
Yeah, I think that's a. Yeah, I think I like it as a description, especially in this regard, just because you don't end up running into nomenclature conflicts.

But I do think.

Even though I do still think there's.

I don't think the Mariners have at least consistently demonstrated having an ace in the context of the majors. At least with, like, there are days where Logan Gilbert and George Kirby and Luis Castillo and Frank, all five of their starting pitchers, there are days where I have looked at them like, they pitched like an ace today, and it wasn't wild. It wasn't some crazy babbitt performance. It was. Oh, yeah, I just located all this stuff, and this stuff looked amazing. This is. There's the stuff of an ace in here.

It's not yet. So every day to me that it's, like, unequivocal. However, I think that is, even if I would even, you know, whether you're bumping that up a little bit, that's the huge advantage. Like, yes, maybe Luis Castillo doesn't quite match, you know, exactly up against, like, I don't know, Tyler Glasnow or, you know, Corbin burns.

But the next day the Mariners have the edge, and the day after that, the Mariners have the edge, and the day after that, the Mariners have the edge, and the day after that, the Mariners have the edge. Like, that's, that's what's spectacular about this team is having so many high floor and pretty dang high ceiling guys. Even if they rest a little bit, you know, below there usually means, like, I think the, like, there's been, I can't say this numerically, but, like, the number of games where the starting pitching has put the Mariners out of a game has to be on one hand this season. You know, like, they just don't, they don't capitulate and they don't put the Mariners out of competition. And because of that, and it was, you know, similar last year, it was somewhat similar at times. In 2022, when they made the playoffs, they are able to then be in games late and, you know, have these wild comebacks or have these wild wins. Yes, exactly.

Kate Preusser
I mean, even the game that Bryce Miller went out and got his face caved in by the Orioles lineup in like the first inning, he comes back, he buckles down, you know, and if, if they were capable of producing any offense at that point, they would have, you know, had a real shot in that game, even with all those runs on the board, because he didnt let it spiral, which also reduces the impact on the bullpen, which is convenient.

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We definitely saw that ace like performance out of Logan Gilbert. We, Zack Mason spent his.

John Trupin
We did.

Kate Preusser
Zack Mason spent his recap wondering where that performance ranks on the hierarchy of some of these really brilliant pitching performances. We've seen Logan Gilbert turn in. I know that he took it very personally to support what Castillo and Kirby had done to be in that series. I was a little surprised that they were able to sweep the Rangers. Jon, what does this do to the Rangers positionally going forward?

Evan James
Let me phrase that another way. Is this the Rangers Mickey Mopp series.

John Trupin
Who? I don't think, I don't think it's so obviously devastating for them yet, but it, it's big. I don't, I don't know. I haven't looked at the schedule to see if the Mariners play them again before the all Star, before the trade deadline. But, I mean, this really, really takes them out. Like, what they think the Rangers have in their favor, right, is they still have, you know, they can say, well, Scherzer is going to be back soon. DeGrom threw off a mound. You know, he'll be back. There's a chance for him to be back in like a month or two.

They hope, you know, they stay in contention and hope the Mariners fall off a little bit. I don't think they're so far out of it that it's hopeless.

But, I mean, the Mariners record in the division now and against the teams that matter in the division against Houston and Texas is sensational.

They're doing every, I mean, last year they did great against Houston, but they sucked against Texas, and that was the difference. But, like, they are doing everything that, like, they're doing all the things that they need to do, even though they play in this weird way where they don't hit and they're, you know, flabbergasting.

These games that they're winning are just building them up such a buffer.

Kate Preusser
The thing that might have messed up that the Rangers in this series is the Astros were getting to play the Detroit Tigers while the Mariners were whooping on, they were, in fact, messing with Texas whooping feet. So quietly, the Astros have crawled up out of the cellar of the aoest. They are really threatening. The gap between the Mariners and those two teams is big. The gap between those two teams is not big. Are we more scared of the Rangers or the Astros going forward?

John Trupin
Evan, you, you made a face. I made a face. Who's going to blink first here?

Evan James
Here's the deal. I don't know if I'm actually that concerned about either of them. Texas has, with their offense broken. I just don't buy that pitching staff to lead them into the promised land, especially because, like you said, they're betting on deGrom coming back. It's like, aren't we all? Wouldn't we all like to have, you know, just a pure Hail Mary like that thrown up? Um, I don't, I don't buy into that whatsoever. I will believe Da Graham is going to be a factor when he actually is and not when he comes out and throws, you know, six pitches and then we don't see him again for a year and a half. So I think their plan to resurrect themselves in the second half was always flawed and was always the hope was always that the offense was going to really hold for it, and they have not done that. They're a full run per game down from where they were last year.

Evan Carter in particular does not look like the same players last year. Too much. Other guys, Dulles, Garcia are having worse seasons. They just look like last year really was their season for it all to click, and this year they're kind of back to normal. And that particular entity I'm not as scared of. Houston, I think, has more potential to flip a switch and suddenly be good at any given moment.

But again, they're a little precarious, too. And so I'm not that concerned about either of them is the honest answer. And I've been reading Shannon posted today what the division looked like last year. This exact moment last year, the same day a year ago, the Rangers were in first at 43 and 27. So like, there was no mystery that they were good by this time last year. Second place was the Astros at 32 or 39 and 32. 3rd place was, oh my gosh, this seems like such a lie. The Angels at 40 and 30 and the Mariners at fourth place at 34 and 35. So just remember that no matter what we feel, it's still early enough where the winds are going to change. The Mariners had yet to be good last season. At this time. They hadn't quite figured that out yet.

Kate Preusser
They also have handed the Angels the Mickey mop yet, which and it burning down their franchise in the process, it seems like.

Yep, it's weird because it's like almost reversed of last year. We were like, the Mariners are busy digging themselves in a hole the whole first half of the season, and this year we really see them taking advantage of some inconsistent play by Texas, some injuries. Same thing with Houston. Their starting rotation is absolutely beat up. They've got a couple rookies trying to pull it together and Hunter Brown, Spencer Arri, who I do think is a good pitcher but continually seems to have really good outings and then not good outings.

Evan James
He looked great against the Mariners for what little that's worth.

Kate Preusser
He did. And I mean, that could have been a function of the Mariners offense, but he's had a couple other outings like that and then he's had one where he's absolutely gotten his face caved in. So I think I have more confidence in the Astros rounding into form because that lineup has done it so many times. They are aging before our very eyes. You know, Verlander is now having some health problems as well. He's got some neck stiffness, which we know can be a very lingering, nagging injury.

I think the Rangers lineup is just in a bad spot right now. There's so much talent in that. Wyatt Langford, hot rodent boyfriend, is so annoying and very good. Evan Carter is out right now, but he's going to come back. I'm not writing off either of those two teams.

I remain terrified of Texas's offense, less so by their pitching rotation, and then the Astros are, I think, a more well rounded threat. So I'm going to say I'm still, still scared of them, especially as they continue sneaking up on Texas in those standings.

John Trupin
My concern, I think, still, is Texas more than Houston.

Houston's pitching is simply not, not fully solvable at this point.

And maybe they will say we're going to buy big at the deadline. That is what rumors have said, that they want to acquire two pitchers at the deadline.

Okay, maybe, you know, but I do think we're sort of beginning to see, you know, the, the cracks in some of the veterans. They've already had four starters, obviously, you know, on the aisle. Kyle Tucker is still down for them.

I am very much afraid of that lineup still.

But Texas is. Lineup has not been healthy all year. Yes, adolescence has been awful.

Yes. Carter and, you know, frankly, you know, several of their players have, have not lived up. I mean, Langford has struggled immensely relative to expectations, certainly to what I expected he would do. But I do think that there's an immense amount of talent there.

They're also getting healthy. They've got Nathaniel Lowe back. They've got some of their pitching on the way. I do think you're right that degrom is theoretical more than, what is it.

Evan James
That said about Santos? He's an idea. He's an, you know, he's a concept.

John Trupin
But, you know, Josh Young will be back pretty soon. He's been out all year.

That group, I mean, we missed Jonah, which completely altered the, the framework of this entire weekend where the mariners could be sending Cal Rawley and Tyler Locklear to steal because Andrew Nizer was back there, went well.

Strange, absolutely. But, you know, but, like, time, you can do that. You know, that that's. That is a dramatic difference, you know, so just in terms of the nature of this particular series.

Now, I loved seeing the Mariners hit Uvalde. I love, or, you know, at least decently, I loved seeing Julio pull the ball in the air. I loved seeing Dane Dunning getting his, you know, his self out of the paint early because the Mariners were working him so deep. And by the Mariners, I mean Joshua. But, you know, that's still, you know, that's still impactful. And I do think they're, they are in great shape to stabilize, add to this roster and keep them buried, even, even though I think both those teams are going to play better the bat on the second half.

Kate Preusser
All right, let's, let's talk about that a little. Let's shift our focus to pull on my notes, shift our focus to talking about the Mariners and what the, we got a few questions about. Like, I would say, I would group them all similarly realistic ceilings for this team.

What improvements need to be made in order to make them World Series contenders? Which for me, I can't think about World Series. Like, I cannot. I'm not thinking that far ahead. I'm thinking, I know there are people at the corner of Edgar and Dave whose job it is to do that. Me, I am just kind of looking a couple weeks at a time, what's ahead of us? Where are we at right now? And trying not to get too far ahead of myself, expectations wise, but, yeah. What kinds of improvements do they need and do we need to be looking at when now trades. Trades towards the future? What, what do they need to do?

What direction should they take in improving this team? So, like, let's start with just talking about, like, where things are right now. What, what improvements have you seen just internally lately with, specifically with the offense? We're not just to be clear, we're not talking about the pitching. The pitching is what it is. Starting pitching, at least.

It is not going to change much, ideally, hopefully. Let me find some wood to knock on. It's not that they're going to be shopping for a starter at the deadline. That's very nice to not have to be in that conversation, not have to be in the Garrett Crochet race or anything like that. So we're strictly looking at the offense. What do we have now? What needs to be, what are they maybe going to get back with some IL stints ending?

What do they maybe need to improve on?

Evan James
Well, you asked a question, which is, what are the most recent developments and how do those play into this? I think there are a couple things. Number one is Tyler Locklear looks very good, and that is, I wouldn't say he looks shockingly good, but he looks like he's making a transition smoother than we, we could have hoped for. And he's. He has chance to realize value this season, which is sooner than we, you know, than we may have anticipated. Two is that Ty France looked great and so when he gets back there's a priority to play him. And then I think three, and which is arguably the most impactful of them is Mitch Garver has really turned it on over the last couple of weeks and he looks like a guy who they're going to continue to play. So you can build your trade scenarios, roster scenarios around those three things at present being the biggest current changes. What would you say John McDougal bats?

John Trupin
McDougal Bats is a bend, Oregon based baseball and softball bats company, family owned. They are big mariners fans and they build baseball bats and softball bats that are fantastic to use for your own league if you have kids that are getting into their seasons. Now, I think we're in at this point, you know, we are approaching summer ball, I know, at least in the Seattle area where we're sort of in the midst of the high school seasons and middle school seasons. But if you have woodbat leagues, those typically get get started around Memorial Day, at least for baseball, I think it is very worthwhile. One of the big perks on a McDoodle bat is that they have a longer sweet spot and they are designed to last for really as long as you keep swinging that bat. Though they are not a composite bat, they essentially are incredibly sturdy. They are not liable to break on you. I actually have now a McDougal bat that I am excited to be cracking open this coming weekend, getting into games. So I am. I'm excited to track my stats here. If you go to McDougall bats, that's macdougall bats.com and order a bat. If you use the discount code, go Ms. That's goms, you will get $15 off your order and we will be very pleased. We'll get a little extra bonus from that as well. So go check them out.

I agree. Around Garver and France, I think Locklear, even though he's striking out, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm barely going to go into the like, performance thus far because it's like 30 plate adventures or something. But like, he looks like roughly what you would hope to get from Ty France.

You know, he is playing an athletic first base and he's just bigger than France, which is, you know, tough, but just he has made some good plays over there.

He is, you know, a below average runner, but not a maybe the slowest runner in the league. Which is what? Ty?

Evan James
No concrete shoes.

John Trupin
Right? Exactly.

Yeah. Send Ty to train with that dude that Julio, you know, learned to sprint from in Florida, the guy who, like, trains football players, where it's just like, I mean, as far as I can tell, it was just lift your knees, but, like, listen, it makes a difference. In any case, I agree around Locklear looking.

He looked like this in Triple A. He looked like this in double. He looked like this never. He looked like this in Modesto. He looked like this at VCU. Every single place that Tyler Locklear has been, he has showed up and said, I'll just be a good hitter.

How about, how about that? Is that. Is that okay? And he's done that. I think he is going to continue to be a, you know, strikes out a fair amount, doesn't walk a crazy amount, but runs into the ball pretty dang hard and well enough. The thing I've always liked about Locklear is I don't think he swings full effort, and because of that, he is like, you know, there, there's reasons why players would swing full effort, right? Ryan Bliss swings as hard as he can because he has to. Tyler Locklear is wildly strong, just unacceptably strong, and I think he just swings like 90%, 85% to 90% strength because he knows if I hit it, it's going a long way, it's probably going far enough. And so I'm going to give myself a little bit more control over the bat as I swing to balance out for maybe not having great bat speed. And so I like that about.

I like that about clear. I also love seeing Rojas stabilizing, or stabilizing isn't the right word, but he was really, he scuffled, you know, he had this hot start and then he was scuffling for a while and we've seen that sort of roadmap, that sort of pathway for sort of utility guys who, like, come out into the season with like a hot plan and then get adjusted to. And he has adjusted back.

Kate Preusser
He acknowledged, too, that he had been in a, in, in a tough road and he was really focused on trying to take his walks again because he was like, I was getting too. I was trying to swing my way out of the slump. I can't do that. He started taking the walk. You saw the impact of that in Sunday's game where he was just exhausting. Exhausting. Dunny's pitching count, that 16 pitch at bat, particularly that is the longest one taken by a Mariners hitter in over a decade. It's very sad for me that he did not get rewarded with it on that. I really wanted him to baseball, but.

John Trupin
He got rewarded with not making it through five innings.

Kate Preusser
Yes. Yes. Which is team baseball, and that is what Rojas is about. And, yeah, it's. It's been great to see him kind of come. Make that adjustment and come back into himself and start doing the things that he was doing at the beginning of the year to make him so great.

John Trupin
Yeah. I think the other. I mean, the obvious one is we, I think, mentioned it a little. Little bit, but Julio.

Julio is not yet, you know, soaring as we've seen him, but. And really, it's sort of funny. I don't know if y'all have had this experience, but I'll watch some games and I'll be like, God, I wish Julio, you know, it would be so nice if Julio could have a good game. It really changed us. And I look at it, it's like, well, he was one for three with a walk, or, you know, well, he was two for five today. Like, okay, he know he's not yet hitting consistently for power, right? We're not. We haven't seen, I think, the thing that we're missing almost because, yes, the home runs are still big and haven't happened that much. I don't think we've seen yet that many of those surefire doubles in the gap from him. It's almost been obvious. Homer or spray single. And it's a very funny place he's in right now.

Evan James
To your point, a couple weeks ago, you mentioned that losing the pole side, he had stopped getting the infield hits, too, and it was good in this past series, this home stand to see him, I think he got two infield hits and almost a third. So good to see him bring that back to his game as well, at the power.

John Trupin
Yes. Yes. I completely agree. It's sort of.

I think part of what's so funny with him right now is he's basically playing like a leadoff hitter, where.

Cause like, a lot of the hits that he has, those. Those pole ground balls, those are fielders choices if someone's on base, but if no one else is on base, their hits, because he is just, you know, so fast and runs so hard.

We've also seen, again, some more great defense from him.

I think Logan Gilbert called it out like, he had a couple balls that, like, he ran that. That Julio ran down that, like, weren't, like, all, you know, sports center plays, but they were like, could have been trouble and weren't.

And Rojas has done that. I mean, again, as well, where I want to say he's leading the league in outs above average is indeed a.

Evan James
Third base, which is wild.

John Trupin
Wild.

I have been, I would say relative to the site, the primary Josh Rojas skeptic. And he has been so. He has so exceeded my expectations, especially this, this last rebound really has me fully eating crow on, on Rojas.

Kate Preusser
It's really surprising to me, John, that you, who love a personality hire, would not have climbed on board with Josh Rojas, who is a great personality and has been one of the transformational players. I would say Luke Rayleigh is the other one in a setting an identity for this.

Okay. All right.

You love a large lad. We will get to Luke Rayleigh. But Rojas defensively asked him about it.

I was like, is this the best defense you've ever played? And he was like, you know, baseball player?

And I was like, well, the defensive metrics say this is the best defense you've ever played. And he was like, well, that's that, then. I can't argue with the metric. He didn't want to, like, toot his own horn. But so, you know, digging into that a little, he says it's just what he's, what he's really enjoying is the consistency and the constant feedback from Perry Hill. Like, even to the point where they're doing infield drills and he makes a throw that's not perfect, and Perry Hill will come up and correct him on it, like, hey, I saw you drop your arm here a little bit. You need to do this. You need to be, because Perry sees everything, and he's on top of everything, and he really does get the best out. And Rojas just has great baseball instincts, great athleticism, baseball IQ, all those things that you kind of throw around.

He's built to be maximized by Perry Hill. That. That was a great trade. I love Paul Seawald.

That what the Mariners have gotten out of just Josh Rojas alone, say nothing of Canzone bliss, I think has been, even with the bullpen being strapped this year, more valuable to the 2024 Mariners.

Evan James
The other piece of that, too, is training Eugenio Suarez and giving the spot to Josh Rojas, which was no sure thing to work out. And they tried to give it to Luisa Rias in the first place, too. So this is basically plan C, and it's gone this well, but go ahead, John. Sorry I interrupted.

John Trupin
No, I. Yes. I mean, that feeds exactly into what I was saying, which is like, that's where my skepticism was. You're absolutely right. Love a personality hire. That was my concern with Rojas, was that he was simply going to be overexposed. I like Rojas.

I. My. My fear often is I like a player, but I like him as a part time player, not as a full time player.

And so that's what's been so exceptional for, for Rojas in, in my eyes, is he is. I mean, he's been the best player on the team. I mean, not, you know, the pitching, but he's been the best position player on the team. And it's saved their asses. His, his, you know, play. I mean, his base running just across the board every, every aspect of the game.

You know, he's had a couple, you know, positions where he's been probably a little over aggressive, but by and large, right, like that. That wild pitch that he scored on, you know, it just. That's a two out. It's a good, aggressive play. And his hustle, his read, his comfort and willingness to, like, go, it created an extra degree of separation and comfort in the game.

Evan James
So that run was so emblematic, too, of why it feels like this team wins so much is because they do pick stuff like that up. And last year, it felt like that guy would have been thrown out somewhere on the bases first. It just, like, that's just the way the season went for us. But for whatever reason, this year, guys are scoring from second base on a past pulse, so we'll take it.

John Trupin
I do. I just. The mental image in my head because, I mean, it really just is what it is. But Perry Hill has the, like, we're more, you know, I'm very used to, you know, we're used to, like, the way that defensive coaches talk for baseball, but it's. It's very individualized. Right. It's. It's, you know, it's positioning, but ultimately, it's an individual play, right? The movements of the right fielder on a ball, on a ground ball to the shortstop barely matter, but I'm just having this image of Perry Hill doing an all 22, like, you know, like watching the, like, sky cam view of the entire defense, like, up in the booth and then just, like, screaming down into a, you know, just hollering down from on high into Josh Rojos Earry.

Kate Preusser
Hill Operand.

John Trupin
Like an NFL defensive coordinator just, oh, I love it.

Can I talk about Lou Gray very briefly? Because my boy looks absolutely ridiculous every time he does something, and I love it.

His.

I relate, as you noted, Kate, to a big old fella who is athletic but looks awful doing it.

And the diving catch he had on Sunday in the 9th inning for, I think, the second out, pretty perfectly emblematic of that. I mean, the bunce, you know, obviously, plenty of the stuff he done. He had the RBI double to kick off the scoring. You know, he looks great when he swings. Every other thing he does is fabulous, but looks horrible. And I think, Kate, you were saying it, and certainly also, you know, the fan graphs article on the bunch echoed this, where, like, he knows he looks. He knows what it looks like. Uh, but what's he gonna do? It just, you know, he's like. He's tried to work on his, like, running gait and it just didn't stick. But it's like, well, I'm. I'm really fast looking like, you know, looking like someone set my. Like someone has. Is holding a match directly underneath my ass and like, I'm lifting. Oh, like, you know, I mean, and it works. It works. And his stability again, they're really. They've basically eschewed. Not eschewed the platoons, but they're letting Rojas and Rayleigh have more of a shot against the lefties. Yeah.

Kate Preusser
They've left him in against. When Texas brought in that lefty reliever yesterday, they left both Rayleigh and Canzone in. And I think each of them worked a full count, maybe.

John Trupin
Yeah.

Kate Preusser
They both put up fight against lads.

John Trupin
Yes.

And it's been good to see Canzone have a few solid moments in the past few days because I think his return from the Il was frustrating because he was so hot out of the gate and then clearly was not, you know, in rhythm again. And having him hit, you know, hitting a little bit more again is. Is very encouraging.

Evan James
He actually the second highest WRC plus on the team for. For or June. So it's. Yeah. Really good to see him hitting again.

John Trupin
And it, you know, obviously, I think it says something, unfortunately, about how some of the right handed hitters have been doing, which is to say not great, but having. Having a preponderance of. Of at least fine hitters, it's almost a similar circumstance to the rotation. Right. They have.

They have an awful, you know, like, their, their numbers they're getting from the, like, one through five in their order suck relative to the rest of the league. But they're like, six to nine is basically just as good as their one to five. So relatively, it's good. So it's just, you know, like they're. They're. They're getting these very even performances up and down the lineup and, you know, you'd like that to be even at a high level, but it's even at an okay level and that's been enough. But they still really need, I think, another outfielder and probably one more bat, you know, either that can play second or third or like a significant upgrade over, you know, in the France Garver, you know, locklear zone. Especially because we mentioned this, Sebi Zavala is gone.

Kate Preusser
What Sebi Duval are doing, they're just obviously, let's talk about, let's talk about roster spots because there's some.

I'm curious about what decision they'll make with Locklear when tie. France is ready to come back. France has been better and he was one of those most more consistent hitters before he had the injury. I'm very curious about what this injury is going to do to that consistency because I feel like it's a for me, that is a shorter leash than maybe for some others because Locklear has looked so good in that position with Polanco coming back because he started out on a rehab, Ty is going to go out on a rehab. He's with the team. I think right now they're maybe going to send him out on a rehab.

Polanco is rehabbing right now. He is torturing the opponents of the Everett aqua Sox. Currently that will shift Dylan Moore down to having less playing time, which right now I'm okay with because post paternity list he has looked. He had some really bad at bats over the Texas. The Texas series was quietly very bad for Dylan Moore and I. He was one of their more consistent. So I'm hoping this is just a timing thing, getting back into it that is up in the air. I don't know what Polanco is going to look like coming back either. This has been a significant layoff and I'm not exactly sure how they're going to handle him either.

But that for me, that's the area where I see the clearest need to upgrade a right handed outfielder.

Hanniger, I feel like we've seen more consistency out of him. Garver definitely on an upswing and Garver taking walks has been huge.

And just Garver performing feels like it's lifted everyone else up. And then Julio, you see him hitting the ball up the middle. That is always a good sign.

We'll see with this upcoming road trip. But I feel like the offense is trending in a good direction and right now I'm more interested at looking internally and making these decisions about who is going to be, because I think one of the other things that's helped is putting Garver into that second catcher spot. And then you put Garver into that second catcher spot. You have him catch Kirby.

Then maybe you can put Locklear and France on the roster and you can put France at DH and you can put Locklear at first. Lockler is a better first baseman and I think that makes your team better.

But you got to get, you got to cut bait on Zavala first. And I don't know what they're waiting for. I think it's maybe to get Garver some more catching reps and make sure that he can handle that.

John Trupin
Well, the other aspect, because I agree with everything you've laid out here, is the risk with Garver is just that he's, his health, you know, he's historically broken down pretty much every year. So the idea of signing him to this deal was he'll be able to stay healthy because they're ditching him exclusively. They're just not going to really bother having him catch.

I don't mind them having him be basically the backup catcher, having him dh, you know, four or five times a week and catch once or twice a week. I think that's probably quite reasonable.

But they really don't have a third catcher right now. And that's, that's like a, you know, that's a whatever thing. I mean, obviously it's ev Zavala is their third catcher or, you know, whatever, but like they, they had Blake Hunt, which at least was like a, well, there's AAAA catcher who hasn't played, but he's, he's got some promise. They don't have that now. So, you know, they've got, what's his face, Michael Perez, I think, is this, you know, who they got like, yeah, he's, he's played in the majors quite a bit and been awful, but you can golf up if you need to. But I do think that's honestly a good usage of the roster. This, at this point where you just do this with Garver until either he gets hurt or he's hitting so well that, you know, or, you know, something shifts with him and France and Locklear or, you know, you make a deal that, you know, the numbers game changes.

I also do wonder, not that I really want this because I like him. Locklear's performance absolutely makes him, I think, a more appealing trade piece, especially for a lot of teams where most teams right now, outside of what the White Sox and the A's and I mean, the Marlins and Rockies, like, that's probably about it for teams who are like, complete capitulation, completely removed from having, you know, finding a major league, like, ready player that worthwhile, you know, and even then, teams like that still often want to trade for players who they can immediately slot into their roster. So, you know, if you're trading for an upgrade, oftentimes, you know, I think a lot of the upgrade options this year are going to be looking at teams who don't think they're that far off and want to trade for guys who can, they can use more quickly. Right. The Cardinals aren't going to think, well, we want a low a guy. Cardinals are going to say, well, we might compete this year or next year. I mean, the Cardinals are whatever, you know, like the, you know, the Giants and the Rays and the, you know, Blue Jays, all these teams that might deal, the Tigers, they all are close enough to justify players they can, they can use right now.

Kate Preusser
With that, perhaps that is a good time to move over and talk about some of these particular targets.

So let me just run down these questions. Sean Morrison asked if the recent offensive improvement is something we should count on or without additions, will the offense slide back to its performance over the first couple months? No, I think pretty much we're on a steady upward trend here.

Are the Zack Cabal wants to know, are the Mariners at a good, weird good place where it only makes sense to make trades that clearly make the team better for the playoffs or for 2025, as opposed to trying to secure a playoff spot? So that's something I'm interested in talking about is like, as we're looking at improvements, this is what, where I think it fits in with talking about Locklear because it doesn't feel like a super Mariners y trade to give away a guy who is young and has upside for somebody on maybe an expiring deal who's going to help? Now, is that because it's not the Mariners way to go about things, or is it because they've not been in this position before, sort of a chicken egg kind of question?

Evan James
Both, but it also depends on the contract we're getting from the return. Like you said, if we're talking about Pete Alonso, I think they despise the concept of that. I think they are fundamentally uninterested in trading six years of somebody for half a season of somebody. They just not, they're not interested in that kind of an exchange. They might be interested in a longer contract, you know, in a year and a half of somebody for Tyler Locklear. But again, when I've been looking at especially the first base DH market, the managers have two problems. One is that a lot of those guys are either expensive or not playing very well. And so they already have in Locklear and France, two guys who are hitting above league average. So it's like, why mess with a good thing in the first place for a whole bunch of money and prospects you don't need to spend?

And it's like two, what about the Mitch Hanniger all? And I think this kind of rolls into the last conversation we were having, too, which is like, between Mitch, Mitch Locklear and Ty France, you have four guys, only one of which who you really feel comfortable with in the field at all, which is Locklear, who is the rookie. It just, in terms of trading, it feels like the wrong fit to me to bring a first baseman DH into this organization, unless you're at least sending one out and maybe even two. What do you guys think?

John Trupin
I tend to agree there are not very many players right now who are performing at a level where they're an obvious upgrade and especially not on teams that would be looking to sell. That's why, obviously, you know, Louise, Robert is getting so much. Robert, Robert, Robert, Robert.

Kate Preusser
Just make sure.

Evan James
I want to apologize to grant because I give him the faux french pronunciation on purpose. It's an inside joke with my friends and I that we do the fake friends french pronunciation of names if we can, but I let it slip on the podcast when I was pitching the question to grant unintentionally, and I felt like my brain poison leaked on the podcast and infected everyone because then he said it after me, like 15 times, and I just. I couldn't. I couldn't bring myself to explain on Twitter, like, guys, it's a joke, but it's not funny. And nobody gets it but me and a bunch of other people who also didn't hear it. So my bad.

Kate Preusser
Great job.

Anyway. Sorry, John. As you were saying about the trade.

John Trupin
Scenarios for Robert, well, just, you know, that's why he's been such a big focus is he's on a team that sucks, and he's actually obviously quite good.

Kate Preusser
Right.

John Trupin
There are just not very many players like that. Right? The Rockies don't have really anybody who's all that great. They've got, you know, Ezekiel Tovar, and he is like 21, 22. They're not trading him. So, you know, maybe, you know, you're looking at a bunch of more hoping they remain above average players. You're looking at, you know, Ryan McMahon. You're looking at Lamonte Wade junior. You're looking at, you know, Christian Walker. Christian Walker probably is like a tick better than that. He's been been, you know, a very good player.

Kate Preusser
I'm surprised Christian Walker is not a mariner. I've, I've been saying for many years that I feel like Christian Walker is spiritually a mariner. That is a Jerry depot acquisition.

John Trupin
Really. I mean, I'm only being slightly flippant when I say the Mariners just trading for Christian Walker and Paul Seawald is like the most sensible deal. I love it that the, that, I mean, just like the easiest deal for them at this stage where like, yeah, just get back a very solid reliever and a very solid, you know, offensive upgrade and, you know, yes, sure. You're, you're going back for the same guy you've had. That's fine. You need one more high leverage guy that you can count on. He, it helps that he is incredibly familiar. He also now is, you know, he is well liked in clubhouse. He is a good fit. He is one year closer to free agency, then that's fine. Like, Walker, I think, is, is an easy fit on this roster as well.

And really, you know, anyone else there just isn't a star. Right. Like, I think I've mentioned Matt Chapman here, and I do think Matt Chapman is an interesting idea, but it's wild to think that the sort of way that San Francisco would go is, yeah, we signed this guy to three year deal, but we'll deal him now. He's got player options for the next two years, so it makes some sense. But, I mean, there just really isn't that much there without Seattle getting very creative or finding a way to trade with another playoff team. And that, I guess, is where. Where I think it could get more interesting, especially because the NL is so flush with teams that could be playoff teams because the NL wild card race is nuts.

Evan James
Yeah. To your, to your point, I think the three most interesting teams for the Mariners from a trade perspective are Boston and the Padres and then potentially St. Louis in Arizona. So that's four, actually.

Three of those teams are credibly in a playoff hunt, so they need to fall out of it. But, like, I would love to talk about Kenley Janssen and Tyler O'Neill if Boston wants to talk. I don't think any of that is going to require Harry Ford. So that's an interesting conversation about maybe some lower level guys like Michael Morales and, you know, like a tie for some of that. I'd be way into that. We keep our prospects, upgrade the bullpen and get an outfielder. Like, I'm into it.

They got to fall out of the race. So does Arizona. If we, you know, if we want to get Paul Seawall, then Christian Walker, and then obviously the Padres have several players that I would very much covet.

Kate Preusser
So I just feel like we are, again, once July kind of rolls around, then I think the trade discussions will heat up. You'll have a better idea, theoretically, of what's happening. I don't see any major movement happening on the trade front. I think we're going to continue getting a lot of these fringy pieces for a hot minute here. But there is one area where I think Seattle would. It would behoove them to make a move sooner rather than later. I think they need to act quickly to shore up this bullpen because the bullpen is struggling.

And again, you can look at your internal options, and I do think that's a worthy conversation to have because, like, I've seen names bandied around, like, oh, Derek law. Like, wouldn't cost a lot, probably. He's fine. He's 33. Like, do we not maybe have Derek law at home? I think we might. Like, it's Logan Evans. And what I'm going to use as the baseline is, like, is Logan Evans better than any of these names who would, you know, theoretically be relatively easy to acquire?

So, like, yeah, Derek law. TJ McFarland is a name that I see.

They could get these. Will they get these or will they? And then who is a reliever who, like, really does move the needle because, you know, you see the, you see the names get the Tanner Scott, who we're going to see in this upcoming series with Miami. He's a hot name, right? Ryan Helsley with the Cardinals.

Dylan Floro.

There's a national. He's the nationals, right? Dylan Floral.

Those are three names that I kind of see because those are all closers, and some teams need closers. The Mariners do not. I think there are cheaper versions to be had of all of these players. Like, in Miami, maybe you don't get Ken or Scott. Maybe you get Anthony. Ben Bender, who's been okay.

He's not awesome. He's got a really good sweeper and a crummy sinker, and he throws the sinker way more than the sweeper. Seems like a real good candidate for the Mariners magic bullpen strategy of throw.

John Trupin
Your good pitches more, and that's also an area where, you know, it hasn't worked so well in the past. Right. The Adam Warren.

Kate Preusser
Zach Duke.

John Trupin
Zach. Thank you. Zach Duke sort of moves. You know, they were mediocre.

Kate Preusser
Yes.

John Trupin
Wasn't really their fault. The team didn't continue to be great, but they also weren't great. That said, I'm not, I'm not turned off that sort of deal because you are spending relatively so little of your prospect capital to bring in, you know, a short term improvement that I think that's absolutely. I think we see at least one of those sort of, and I. That's where I definitely think both personally and projecting what they will do. I anticipate them making a move, even for a, you know, rental, so to speak, because the, the cost if for a one, you know, for half a year of a decent reliever is negligible in the scheme of player development.

Kate Preusser
Yeah. And I feel like it's going to be a name that is not exciting and the fan base is going to be really pissed about it. Like Dylan Floro with the Nationals. I was looking at Robert Garcia, who has horrible numbers but has had a ton of bad luck. Like, all his expected metrics are. Well, he's underperforming his expected metrics and again, is another one of those candidates of like, hey, what if you threw this good pitch more and this bad pitch less?

Matthew Liberator is another one in St. Louis who's a, I mean, he's very young.

He is very.

He is real bad.

He throws like 17 pitches, and they're all kind of crappy.

John Trupin
They're all, all sorts.

Kate Preusser
But he has a really good slider.

Slider is a huge, huge swing and whiff getter or swing and miss Getter.

John Trupin
So what if fastballs did not exist?

Kate Preusser
Yeah, I mean, but you know what I think, like, some kind of creative, out of the box thinking like that. Like, it's not going to be the name that I think people are expecting, but I'm sure they have their scouts on this. I would definitely watch Miami's bullpen really carefully over this upcoming series because the, I don't think it'll be Tanner Scott. He's going to be a very high priced piece at the trade deadline, and I don't see them doing that just because while it would be nice to have another back end of the bullpen piece, I just think they'll get outbid.

It'll be something they don't want to pay for him. And I don't love overpaying for closers on bad teams to begin with. So I would watch the Miami bullpen over the. If you're curious about trades and you want to satiate your trade thirst, which is just unrelenting among the Mariners fan base, definitely.

John Trupin
I would. I would keep an eye on, on Andrew Nardi.

Kate Preusser
Oh, feels like a mariner.

John Trupin
It's got that. Got that mariner.

Kate Preusser
Got feels, feels Mariner.

John Trupin
Yeah, he's, he's, he's on the, he's on the Marlins. I mean, specifically, literally this series. Keep an eye on him for, for what, what we see, because he's mostly a two pitch guy. He's throwing a lot of his. Okay. Fastball and a good amount, but probably could be throwing more of his very, very good slider and strikes out a lot of people, doesn't walk. Very many people has had wildly bad cluster luck.

Kate Preusser
Yes.

John Trupin
Particular year.

Kate Preusser
We love a bounce back.

John Trupin
Yeah.

Evan James
To your point, too, kate, about how we're not going to know who it is and kind of in the bounce back candidate mold. The Mariners love an uptick in short term performance, so they're out there looking for somebody who had a rough start to the year, made some kind of tangible change, maybe got injured, and came back from the injured list and is pitching good again. But, like, somebody whose very immediate recent numbers indicate they are better than their total stat line is a good example of this is JT Chargwois. Once upon a time, they did this with, or last year, they had much more, much worse results with Jake Lamb, who was, you know, tearing it up for the Dodgers, and it had killer triple A numbers on the season. And then the mariners brought him in, and it was all mirage. But, you know, they like to try the, they like to test the waters on those guys who they feel like maybe kind of flip the switch. So I would expect that's the key to understanding who they trade for, because we might look at the stat line and go, gross, you know, like, this guy sucks. Uh, and the trick will be to understanding that, like, oh, well, you know, he had tommy john surgery, or he was injured. He's coming, coming back, and he's throwing 2 miles an hour harder. That's going to be the key to understanding the framework.

John Trupin
This guy, you know, who I would be fascinated if they would trade for is Michael Kopeck.

Kate Preusser
Oh, no, no, no.

John Trupin
Say we're. We're making a sort of. We're hitting. We're hitting a grand tour of Kate's opinion, and I'm thrilled for it.

Yeah, I don't disagree, strictly speaking, nay, no.

Kate Preusser
Oh, I just thought of another one. Sorry.

John Trupin
But he is 28.

He's in his penultimate year before free agency, and he's basically been yo yo'd between bullpen and rotation for his whole big league career. And he was a very, very solid reliever when he first came up.

And I do wonder, I mean, the Mariners have really had a thing for.

We just saw this guy. We're done facing them. Let's trade with them.

I don't remember if they face the, the White Sox again this year, but I know, I mean, that was certainly the majority of their games against the White Sox at the very least, I can't recall if they've been to Chicago, but I do think Kopec has the type of stuff that they like and that a guy who has been predominantly in a very bad reputation pitching system and before that, another, at the time, very bad pitching reputation system and now is just being used as, like us, you know, not the highest leverage, but a high leverage reliever on a horrific team.

I think the White Sox are in a place where Kopec is not part of their next good team, and they would be reasonable to move him. He wouldn't cost them a ton, and they could get him for this year, next year. That's, that's a suggestion for me.

That is, that is.

Kate Preusser
I agree someone.

John Trupin
I think they would.

Kate Preusser
I agree. The White Sox will move him. I do not agree the Mariners will go after him. He is too wild and unreliable. That is not what they need. And I don't know that he gels in that clubhouse. I don't think he does. Mister broke his hand, punched a wall. No, no, I don't think so. I don't see it.

John Trupin
This is the team that traded for Jaron Kalnick, that traded for Jesse Winker.

Evan James
Yeah, they lived to regret both of those things.

John Trupin
I would argue, sure. But they, they have repeatedly said, oh, we prioritize personality, and then went for, and then Cal, Nick, everyone knew what Kelnick was like. I mean, you know, he was a teenager or very young, but, like, people were already, like, this dude is too competitive for professional athletes. Like, you know, and I, like, I don't begrudge counting of that, but I'm just saying as a personality trait, that is, like, people were saying he's Jimmy Butler. Like, you know, in the way that it is almost a negative for the team how much this guy cares, which is, again, whatever. But I guess I would just say they signed Ryan Stanik.

Kate Preusser
Oh, but he is absolutely chill, are you, dude?

John Trupin
Yeah, for sure.

Very chill guy. Very, you know, as far as we can tell, he is very chill with walking people, too.

Yeah, that's all I'm saying is you look at Ryan Stanik and Michael Kopec's numbers, the only real difference is Kopec striking out more people.

Kate Preusser
Yeah.

John Trupin
You know, now as a mariner, Stanix been slight. He's been more walk or he has been less walk prone than ever before in his career.

Maybe because he's pitching for the Mariners and they made some adjustments and as a result, he's been pretty dang effective. Not the most effective he's been in his career, but pretty dang effective.

I don't think they are as averse to bringing in. Right. I mean, they, they sign, you know, they went Carlos Vargas, Carlos Vargas Ramirez. You know, they have gone for these types of guys. They went for Justice Sheffield for Justin.

Kate Preusser
Right.

John Trupin
But it's, it's whether they can get somebody and, and make it, I don't know if they do that, but I do think they would. They would.

Kate Preusser
I think so. The thing is they're going to be competing with other teams for Kobach and I don't think they need him as much as some of those other, other teams who will outbid them.

John Trupin
I, I hear you generally, but I think other teams would be more scared to bring Kopec in as a high leverage guy. He's been so inconsistent this year.

Kate Preusser
Right. Whereas the Mariners could use him. Could use him as.

John Trupin
Would be willing to trade for him. Yeah, exactly. Trade for him as the 7th inning.

Kate Preusser
Yeah.

John Trupin
Or 6th and 7th inning usage. And that would be worth it to them for the upside of this year and next year. Building him into this. Matt, this, this could be, you know, fan, you know, Matt Brash. Like that's. That's the level of the strikeout stuff.

Evan James
Yeah.

Kate Preusser
Well, we'll see. I will buy you a ice cream if Michael Kopec is a mariner. Whatever you want. Double, triple scoop.

So I was gonna say that they do face the White Sox at the end of July. So out of the all star break it goes Houston. It goes a divisional set with Houston and LA, the Angels and then the White Sox in Boston to kind of end things for the month.

The all star break is that week right before. Are we going to be voting for the all star game? Anyone going to do some voting? I don't. I mean, I think the all star game is kind of stupid, but I do have strong feelings about, I think that it matters to the players. They would like to say they're an all star. So who will close with this? Who is your Mariners all star? Who gets your vote?

Evan James
Oh, this is easy for me, I think, since George got it last year, and I would love to celebrate our pitching. I think this is Logan Gilbert's year. I would love to see Logan Gilbert as the Mariners all star representative. Julio's an easy choice because he's Julio. I'd like to see him play. I'd like to see him play on a national stage. I like the recognition that we have a superstar, and everybody else is jealous, so that's easy. Um, and, you know, I don't think he's going, but if Josh Rojas got an alternate spot, I would be thrilled because he's earned it for being the team's mvp this year. Him and Cal. Cal, too. If Cal got an alternate spot, but he's got a harder road because he's behind Salvador Perez and Ali Rutchman, and they're taking.

Kate Preusser
The question was, who is your Mariners all star?

Evan James
Logan Gilbert.

Kate Preusser
You tried to pull a Kate and answer 17.

Evan James
I did.

Kate Preusser
Nope.

Evan James
Logan Gilbert.

Kate Preusser
Logan Gilbert is a great answer. It is. I would also love to see Logan Gilbert. I agree. I think those couple bit that bad stretch that he had where he didn't have any wins because wins are stupid, but. And he got no run support. I think he's mariners gonna get overlooked because of that, which sucks. But I would be over the moon overjoyed if he did get it. I think he just is deserving, but he's still got some time to make a case, too.

John, how about you?

John Trupin
I would say Gilbert, as well. I think he's the best.

He's been the best pitcher on the team thus far, and I think that Kirby turning it around has been great to see, and that could, you know, he could. With a few more starts, like, he had this past stretch, he could. He could easily get right back in there, but I suspect that that's where they're going to get an all star. I don't even, you know, Julio's fame. Julio could have a. Basically the next month. Julio could. Could go on a tear and. And could get there, but I just think even with, you know, some of the injuries that have happened, it's, you know, I'll. I'll always. I typically vote once.

I'm not a repeat, but I do like to put it together because it is nice, and I do like to. I'm. I am a wholehearted, you know, what are the results been person. So you know your babeps 400. Great. You're in there.

You know, who cares? It's a snapshot of that year. And while I do think it's silly how, you know, what teams get picked some or what players get picked sometimes. I love the all star game, and I love then I love it more, honestly, for looking back at it as much, really, than the event itself sometimes. Although I had a blast when it was here, but, yeah, I think Logan is the deserving player, and I think they are really the best team in the league to not have a. To maybe not deserve an all star.

You know, Munoz would certainly be there. I think that's. That's perfectly reasonable. But. But I do think the pitchers will continue to build and ultimately be worthy of. I bet they get two pitchers off.

Evan James
That's such a fascinating point about us being the best team with no all Star reps, because, like, last year when we didn't really have any all Star reps, at least we were bad. You know, he kind of deserved it. We're doing really well this year, and.

John Trupin
And, you know, Julio was not so consistent, but because in part because, you know, judge and some of the other players were not really performing. Like, Julio was still like a top five, you know, outfield. Right. He's, you know, he's not been bad, but he's not, like, in that same range this year. Yeah. And, yeah, Kirby, you know, I mean, they're just. It's. It's a weird year for pitching, right? I mean, if you're going off fan graphs, the top five are Tanner, or the top three even is Tanner Hook, Tariq Scuba, and Garrett Crow. Shit.

Evan James
Two of whom might get treated, which is why.

John Trupin
Yes. Right. You know, top. Top ten. Eric Fetty's in there.

Jack Flaherty's in there. You know, I mean, it really is, you know, just a. Just a. It's not a year for the front runners.

Kate Preusser
I will go with Munoz. I think he is the mariners. Rojas or Munoz, both of whom you mentioned, despite the fact that I asked for one all star and each of you gave me multiple names. Now I see how frustrating is when I do it.

Munoz, they just don't win all these one run games without him. He's been stretched to the limits. It's one of those things where I wonder if the voters will recognize how good he is outside of the value that he plays to Seattle. But he is absolutely. For me, Gilbert and Munoz are Seattle's all stars on the pitching side as far as what they've provided us with, consistency and performance. I'd love to see Josh Rojas make an all star game. I think that would be a great honor for him. He's put in the work. It would be nice to see him rewarded. I think there's a real chance he is Seattle's. I think Seattle gets, too, and I think it's Gilbert or Munoz and Rojas, but I don't think he's undeserving.

Evan James
Do you think with Munoz, if he gets voted in, the team quietly asks him not to pitch, given the health factor of the back, or do you think they let him, Rod?

Kate Preusser
I think they let him go. I think every manager gets to, or every organization kind of gets to make the call based on how the game is going and depending on how the season is, too. Like, he can throw an inning. It's, it's, that's not a big deal.

Evan James
Just no plays at the plate.

Kate Preusser
No plays at the plate, for sure.

All right, well, that is going to do it for this week for meet at the Mitt. Thank you so much for everybody who sent in questions. I'm sorry, I sort of blurred them all together, but a lot of them were asking essentially the same thing in different ways.

Thank you to our sponsors, thank you to everyone who listens, and we really appreciate you. And we'll be back next week with more infotainment.

Till then.

Wah Gwan Zavala - Can Garver be Trusted as the Backup Catcher? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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1. Garver's Role and Performance

2. Team Strategy and Rotation

3. Future Projections and Strategies

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