They Not Like Us - What if the Pitching is Sustainable? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

Alex Rodriguez
With threats to our nation waiting around every corner, adaptability is more important than ever. When conditions change without notice, quick strategic thinking is crucial. And with obstacles consistently impending, determination is essential in overcoming them. It's this willingness, decisiveness and resilience that sets Marines apart with our fighting spirit. We don't just fight battles, we win them. Marines are the constant our nation counts on to fight the unknown. And through adaptable problem solving, we do just that. Learn more@marines.com dot I'm Alex Rodriguez.

Jason Kelly
And I'm Jason Kelly from Bloomberg. This is the deal.

Each week you'll hear us in conversation with business icons.

Alex Rodriguez
This show will explore deal making across.

Jason Kelly
Sports, media and entertainment.

Unknown
That is a harsh lesson in business.

Unknown
Sports is not as simple as bringing.

Unknown
A bunch of big names together.

Unknown
I didn't want to do another stomp you out speech.

Evan James
It opened up so many more doors.

Jason Kelly
The show is called the deal.

Listen to the deal.

Listen to the deal on Spotify.

Unknown
With lucky land slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.

Unknown
This is your captain speaking. We've got clear Runway and the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest you sit back, keep your tray table upright and start getting lucky.

Unknown
Play for free@luckylandslats.com. Are you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. Prohibited by law. 18 plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details.

Jason Kelly
Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

Evan James
Laundry.

Unknown
Ooh, a book club.

Computer. Solitaire. Huh?

Jason Kelly
Oh, sorry. We were looking for Chumba casino.

That's right, chumbacasino.com has over 100 casino style games. Join today and play for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes.

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Evan James
Hello and welcome to the Meet at the Mitt podcast. I'm Evan James. I am joined by my east coast brethren today from lookout landing, Zack Mason and Anders Jorstad. I apologize if you hear any roosters crowing during my audio. In particular, we got four chicks, baby chicks, a couple months ago. It's been exactly twelve weeks to the day, I believe, today, and you can't tell if one of them is a rooster until they reach about 16 weeks old, to be entirely sure, but you definitely can't tell anything for at least the first month. And one of them is a rooster. And so now my alarm clock is an actual rooster crowing in my living room.

Unknown
That's actually kind of cool.

Evan James
It's wild, dude.

Unknown
You know there's a whole world, though, isn't there, of chicken sexers who, like, are gifted at determining the sex of chickens way before a normal person would be able to misremembering that.

Evan James
I don't know if you're like me, but you know that information because it's an episode of both the Simpsons and american dad, that they go, but I believe you, it is 100% true. They go and they have them in the. One of them, Steve, like, they say he has the gift because he can tell the sexes apart when they're, like, a day old.

But, yeah, it is. It's a very hard thing to know. It's pretty common. You wind up with a rooster, and so we have three new hens and a rooster.

Unknown
The world is a wild place, man. There are, like, things about the world that I'm, like, continually learning and probably will be this way for, you know, the rest of my life. That. That's pretty. That's pretty amazing.

Evan James
Yeah.

Unknown
There's, like, the real experts. They, like, they do it, and you ask them, what are you looking for? And they can't even describe it. They've just done so much that they, like, they just know. And it must just be, like, someone.

Unknown
Who has, like, perfect pitch, and they can just, like, listen to a note and know that that's a d. Like, they just know.

It must be, like, that feeling.

Evan James
I have no idea. Like Zach said, there's not a visual indicator, so they look at them and they get a feel for what it is, and they just know. And, like, we didn't know.

But enough about chickens. I want to talk about last night, because the mariners pitching continues to be the talk of the league, particularly on twitter. It feels like, as it relates to the Mariners, but just incredible across the board last night. Logan, 40 pitches through four innings, 63 pitches through six innings. He winds up going eight. Shutout.

Just a dominant performance. Zach, what did you see from Logan last night and you being obviously on the Logan or the Walter, excuse me, for Cy young train, how do you feel like he is progressing on that track?

Unknown
I mean, what I really liked out of Logan last night was his ability to hold some stuff back.

And I think that's, like, an underrated aspect of having all of these new pitches is that he can show multiple pitches to guys like the first time through the lineup and then still have new looks to show them later on in the game. And historically, Gilbert's had a big third time through the order problem, and I feel like this is something he's improving at as he's able to, like.

Unknown
Like what?

Unknown
Last night, he basically threw, like, one or two cutters or curveballs through the entire first time through the order, and then through the second time through the order, he threw a little, a few.

Evan James
More, he threw some more splitters, and.

Unknown
Then it was the third time through the order that he, like, let it all out. And, I mean, the Astros lineup, like, I know the Astros are struggling right now, but it is not their offense that is struggling, is a very talented lineup. And, I mean, he just made fools of them.

He got Jordan Alvarez swinging on a curveball. He got a sword out of Yordan Alvarez. Do you know how hard that is? Like, that is a, that is one of the best hitters in, you know, of his generation.

And I think it's because, because of that, the depth of his arsenal and his ability now to go deeper into games, and that, I think, is a big part of why he made it through eight innings last night and in under 100 pitches.

Unknown
I think what I love most about this Mariners pitching staff that we're seeing right now, and my apologies to Emerson Hancock, because he's not going to get a mention as I'm talking about the big four that they have right now, but each one of them is elite at a very specific thing. Like, obviously, Kirby is so elite, that fan graph just named the new command index after him.

On the command scale, he, I, he, I think he has the best walk per nine of any pitcher since the dead ball era for his career.

Then you have Bryce Miller, who has, like, this elite vertical approach angle. You know, no fastball looks like it's coming in with less vertical drop than his.

And you have Luis Castillo, who, you know, he got a write up at baseball prospectus earlier this season for his pronation with his fastball or just with his pitches in general. And then Gilbert is, like, an elite tinkerer. Like, this is a guy who's, like, elite at just, like, finding new weapons to add to his arsenal and making them, like, really, really good.

So, you know, obviously, last year it was the splitter, and this year it's the cutter. And those two pitches account for a third of his offering so far this season.

And he's just been absolutely dominant with, like, every pitch he adds to his arsenal. It's just like a new weapon that he can, you know, get by a guy, and that just really helps you. Zach, as you're mentioning, get through that third time through the order. Um, you know, if you're going really deep into a ballgame and you get to that fourth time through the order even, you know, if you have five or six different tools in your arsenal, all of a sudden you can kind of fool guys no matter how many times they see you in one game.

So really astounded by, by those four guys and kind of the different ways that they attack hitters and it makes it a very difficult at bat for each kind of guy that faces off against these guys.

I have to credit J on Twitter at the Jade page for this, but the Mariners starting rotation over the last 21 starts has a lower era than 2014 Felix Hernandez did, with a roughly equivalent k per nine and walk per nine.

So this is like a truly magical elite run. The Mariners staff is on that. I really kind of wonder when it will come to a close. It's almost hard to predict because, you know, you look at the Hancock starts and Hancock is kind of doing a nice Chris flex an impression and he seems like the most vulnerable to be the one that gives up those more than two earned runs in a start. But so far he's been holding down the fort pretty well and Brian Wu looks pretty much ready to take that spot. So I don't know if Hancock's going to get another outing to be the guy to cough up those runs.

Unknown
I think Hancock gets one more outing just because of how Brian will pitch last night, and Hancock is scheduled to pitch Tuesday, so I think Hancock probably will get that start. Um, but I think Brian Woo will pitch within the next turn of the rotation for sure, especially because they've got like a long stretch without an off day here.

Unknown
And this is a guy who we haven't gotten to see very much of, obviously into coma. He has thrown and he didn't walk a single guy through his eleven innings of rehab, so that's pretty cool. But I'm very curious to see in what way he gets to be like an interesting guy for us because we really only saw like a very raw version of Brian Woo last season, who I think even the Mariners admitted wasn't quite ready, but they thought his stuff was good enough to kind of get by hitters. He's pretty much just a fastball only guy. Last year. I'm really curious to see what kind of developments he made over the winter and over the spring that we haven't really gotten to see come to fruition yet because he could be between him and Miller.

I was always a little bit more interested in Wu, and Miller obviously is getting to a really special place so far this year that that's extremely exciting, but I'm even more kind of amped up for what Brian Wu could be down the stretch this season.

Evan James
The thing with Wu, too, is that he wasn't supposed to pitch at all last year. He wound up pitching last year because the had so much attrition in starting rotation and it, there was a necessity for him to be in there. And honestly, if he hadn't pitched well, he probably would have been out of the rotation after a month and they would have put Tommy Malone in there or acquired somebody else at the deadline or, you know, something, something else. But the only reason he stuck was because he was, frankly, so impressive to begin with. So, yeah, I'm totally with you. I want to see what year two from him looks like and what kind of improvements or changes he's made, especially if he can, you know, you talked about Logan going through the third time through the lineup. It's a little bit the same thing, although not exactly with Brian Woo in that when he loses his command a little bit in the fourth, 5th, he kind of falls off the wagon. And we saw that a little bit when they were starting. Matt Brash, once upon a time, had a little bit of that himself. But the no walks in particular in Tacoma is really interesting to me. I want to see if he can carry some of that into Seattle. And, uh, yeah, Zach, I was looking at the, the calendar and the, the schedule yesterday myself. Like, hey, it's weird they haven't called him up yet, but, um, I agree. I think it's for the next home stand because they're, you know, obviously they're on a road trip right now.

Unknown
Well, for a while, they, they had the two lined up. So I'm curious what happened? Wu must have, like, took an extra couple of days of rest between starts.

That must have been what happened because they were both lined up together for a minute, wasn't it?

Evan James
The double header shifted the. I believe the double header shifted the.

Unknown
Schedule, which is the doubleheader lined them up in the first place because I believe woo threw on the day the doubleheader, unless I'm mistaken, on that front. But either way, yeah, I don't mind one more Hancock star. And honestly, Hancock, I think Hancock definitely deserves his flowers. And I'm continually impressed by the way in which the Mariners have kind of helped him turn into something in a way that I think a lot of organizations would have struggled to do. And kudos to hancock himself for, like, not looking at the five, you know, really good pitchers in front of him and just being completely, like, hopeless, you know, I have no shot at making it because obviously, opportunity struck and he's kind of run with it.

Unknown
He.

Unknown
He is the pitcher who I feel like is the least dominant of the bunch. But, like, on most other teams, he would be a regular mainstay in the rotation. Even a lot of contending teams, he'd be the main. He'd be a mainstay.

Unknown
I think maybe half the teams in baseball would have him in their rotation right now.

Unknown
Yes.

Unknown
And, like, at least ten would have him in their rotation, assuming they had full health from all of their starters.

But, yeah, I think, you know, to do something historic, you need to be both good and lucky.

And what the Mariners rotation has done over the last 21 starts where they have not allowed a single one of them has allowed more than two earned runs and a start, first time that's been done in over 100 years. I mean, that's. That's historic territory. And they've been very, very good. They've also been lucky. And I think Emerson Hancock is really, like, as a group, he's the one who has been the luckiest. Even if all of them have, like, gotten a little lucky or a little luck there with, you know, sequencing and, like, leaving runners on and blah, blah.

Unknown
Blah.

Unknown
I don't feel like it makes it any less special. Like, because they're on this historic run. I'm, like, always living on the edge of my seat over things that don't actually matter that much. You know, like, when they start allowing unearned runs, and I'm like, well, whatever, you know, like, it's not messing with the streak, everything's fine.

But I'm. Yeah, I'm wondering how long it goes, too. If they. If Miller can do it again today, it would tie the longest time it's ever been done. 22 games.

Unknown
Yeah. By the time you're listening to this podcast, you'll have known whether that happened or not. But even if this ends, I think that what this illustrates is, like, kind of what we knew coming into the season, which is that this mariners rotation had the chance to be the best rotation in baseball, and obviously, so far they have been. I don't expect that to really change for this team. I think that we kind of are seeing that if they're all healthy, this is going to be a top three rotation in baseball at minimum, if not top two or. Or number one. Um, and I think the number one really is, like, the health permitting question, right? If everyone stays healthy, I don't see a reason why any rotation could be better than this one.

Well, it's like a very special moment that I think, Zach, you're always saying this. We should not take this for granted, because who's to say that this will ever happen again?

Unknown
I mean, right? Like, you could live 100 years and not see again what you have seen over the last four weeks, 100 years.

The thing that makes it tough to assess, like, just how good they are. Like, there are statistics that take into account park factor, but, I mean, that's another aspect in which they have been lucky, because this, like, streak in which they have allowed, never allowed more than two earned runs, like, that is a accounting stat, not a rate stat. And it's affected by the fact that they have been playing in their home games in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball, and they probably would not have done this.

The Red Sox probably could not do this.

Just, like, mechanically, it could not be done playing half your games in Fenway.

But I think the other thing to keep in mind about that is.

Unknown
I.

Unknown
Feel like there's been this really harsh reaction to the offensive struggles, as if it's like, wasting this incredible pitching. But they're both a little bit born of the same phenomenon, which is that they are playing in a lot of pictures, parks, and it's like, it's not an inherently better way to construct a roster, to have a more traditional one through five and, like, an evener better offense.

And it just, like, wouldn't, I think, aggravate people so much. Like, they were wasted, you know, like, we should have won 19 of these 21 games instead of the, like, 15 or however many it is that we've won.

I find that a little bit frustrating that people are really relishing in this wonderful thing without taking into account the broader context for it.

Unknown
And I think it's important to talk about the marine layer stuff, because that has been top of mind all throughout the media spectrum these last few days, especially in the last week. And this is something that I feel like, just like the pitcher injury thing happens every April and everyone talks about it. I feel like this conversation is rehashed every April, like the marine lair. What's, you know, the batter's eye is all messed up and what's the. What's the problem? What can the mariners do about it? And then come the summer, everyone forgets about it because people are hitting regularly again.

Jude obviously, obviously wrote that article on Seattle Times about it. They talked about it on rates and barrels the other day. Sorry, Zach, you can go ahead.

Unknown
No, it's just. It's not just the marine layer. Right. Like, it's not only limited power, T Mobile is the hardest place to get a hit.

Unknown
Yes. And that may be the batters, I think, coming into account, too. One thing they were talking about are rates and barrels, which I highly recommend listening to was, was, I guess, like, the angle at which the batter's eye appears is like, kind of like, not what hitters are used to seeing. That's something that te Oscar complained about. That's something that I guess, in the past Beltray complained about.

So that if that's true, that seems fixable, but I don't know how much that is an excuse from those.

Unknown
I am deeply skeptical when players blame a batter's eye. Deeply skeptical.

Like, it's just a very convenient thing to climb onto. It always sounds to me like it is excuse making. And that's not to say there are not better or worse batter's eyes. You know, the mariners have gone through several different versions of the Battersea. Like, when it first, when Safeco field first opened, it was just, like, painted green, but that was really reflective. And for a while, they had those trees out there, and that wasn't great. And, like, this honeycomb structure with the matte black paint, it, quote unquote, fixed the problem for a long time. But all of a sudden now, because Teosco Hernandez struggled for one year, all of a sudden we think the batter's eye is a big problem. Give me a break.

Unknown
Well, and here's the thing, and this is, I think, why you should be skeptical is, like, if.

If the batterzai was an active competitive disadvantage to the mariners, they would fix it, right? Like, they would change that in a heartbeat if that was actually harming the team. But either it is helping the pitching more than it's hurting the hitting, or it's not a problem in the first place, or the team would be doing something about it.

Unknown
If it was really a problem, the thing you would see is a lot more hit by pitches.

And, like, that is fundamentally what the Battersea is for. It is, of course, so that they can see the ball, so that they can hit it. But it's also, like a genuine safety concern, and that's not something that, you know, it's like, the same reason why pitchers can't wear white gloves.

Like, batters need to be able to see the ball so that they cannot get hit by 90 miles an hour, 95 miles an hour, 100 miles an hour. Projectiles.

And you don't see that.

Jason Kelly
I'm Alex Rodriguez. And I'm Jason Kelly from Bloomberg. This is the deal. Each week, you'll hear us in conversation with business icons. This show will explore deal making across.

Alex Rodriguez
Sports, media and entertainment.

Unknown
That is a harsh lesson in business.

Unknown
Sports is not as simple as bringing a bunch of big names together.

Unknown
I didn't want to do another stomp you out speech.

Unknown
It opened up so many more doors.

Jason Kelly
The show is called the deal.

Unknown
The deal.

Jason Kelly
Listen to the deal.

Listen to the deal on Spotify.

Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

Unknown
Laundry.

Ooh, a book club computer. Solitaire. Huh?

Jason Kelly
Ah, sorry. We were looking for chumba casino.

That's right. Chumbacasino.com has over 100 casino style games. Join today and play for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes.

Chumbacasino.com conditions apply.

Evan James
See website for details.

Unknown
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.

I wonder if, you know, obviously, if this continues throughout the season, I feel like there's gonna be a clamoring to move the fences in again, but I don't know if that's.

I don't know how much it's a problem that is that simple to fix or not. And I think that if it was, it would be done.

But obviously, hitters don't want to come to Seattle, quote unquote. And it's a mat. Like, people are constantly asking whether this is actually a physical problem or whether it's a mental problem at this point.

And this was kind of analyzed in the Jude article as well. Like, the ball flies an average of 6ft less per fly ball because the marine layer and, like, that is significant, but that is not, like, game changing. Right. And so it really is a question of, okay, do you then move the fences in 6ft, or do you just let it ride and keep the pitching advantage that it gives you?

Unknown
Well, I'd like to see them move the fences in and also make them taller.

Unknown
Okay.

Unknown
I think there will be a lot more hits, a lot more balls in play. I think it would be a more exciting game.

But also, like, I think the degree to which hitters don't want to come to Seattle. Like, that's true. Pitchers also don't really want to come to Seattle. That's why it was so notable that Blake Snell came. Like, you see it with some of the, like, waiver wire ish guys who realize what the Mariners pitching development is and can do for them.

And also, obviously, it's pictures park, but, like, guys just don't want to come to Seattle at all because it's.

Unknown
It's a far away. Yeah, no one's far away.

Unknown
That's the problem. But, like, the fact that it's not a famously good place to hit exacerbates that problem. But that's also partly, like, a cultural problem that I think the mariners could do more to avoid.

Back in the day, the Rockies, when course opened and pre humidor, the bullpen, was this.

I mean, it was a fraternity in the sense of, they have really been through something terrible together. And there was, like, a wall that you would sign from, like, having survived pitching in Coors Field, and it was like.

It was not a good culture. It was a culture of, like, expecting failure.

And I think that's something that, like, they worked very hard to fix and got under control for a while. Obviously, they didn't, like, draw pitchers in, but it was not the same sort of, like, mindset problem for that organization and for the pitchers in that organization for maybe a ten year period or so before the Rockies started to become one of the most mismanaged organizations in America of any kind.

But I think offense in Seattle could use a little bit of that.

Don't let this intimidate you.

Unknown
Yeah, and I think service said that she's giving up service to this or whether it's true, but was talking about. They had this conversation at the beginning of the season and talked about not letting this intimidate guys. And he doesn't think it is now, but, like, you know, something is. Is not working for the hitters at Seattle. And I don't know if they're all slumping at the same time. Is it just a coincidence or if this is a cause of a. Of a team problem where they are letting it get into their heads, but they obviously hit a lot better in those first two games in Houston. Certainly, you know, the three of us haven't gotten to see the third game in Houston and know the answer to that, but, like, they are hitting better in this Houston series than they had been hitting in Seattle.

Obviously, that's an anecdotal data point, but either way, I would like to see them kind of get their act together at home. And I think that really comes down to. And this is something that they talked about. Evan, you talked with Kate and John about this. It really does come down to Julio kind of leading the charge, and I'm not placing the blame on Julio, to be. Be clear, like, Julio has enough to worry about, not. Not to have the whole team worry about him. But we. We, as fans, view the offense through the lens of Julio. And when Julio is hitting well, we don't worry about the rest of the offense, and when he's not hitting well, we kind of microscope focus on him. And the fact that he has one home run this season makes it seem like the team just hasn't hit for any power this year. And for a large. For, you know, a lot of them have had kind of a power outage to start the season. You know, Garver, um, has had that problem as well. Polanco, until recently. The last couple of weeks, he started to find his power stroke, and Raleigh as well. But, you know, the first couple of weeks, it was kind of hard for him to get one over the fence. So I think. I think a lot of it comes down to how we view the offense through Julio, and I don't know if that's fair to the rest of the team.

Evan James
I'm glad you brought this up, because I was thinking about this literally last night, because Julio has.

He has not lived up to his pedigree so far this season. I don't think he's having a bad season. That's a wild accusation to throw at somebody like him. He is not living up to his abilities. But you know who we talk about the team goes as Julio goes. You know who that's actually been true of this year so far is Cal Rawley. This team wins when Cal hits. So far, I mean, it's been a month, but, like, even last night, they win when Cal hits and when he plays well. He's a really, really streaky player. We know this. This is. He's a catcher. The expectations for him and the consistency he's going to bring are just lower. His offensive profile is going to be erratic. We've been saying this for five years now. He's just a guy that's going to be like that.

Unknown
And have anybody.

Evan James
Go ahead. Has anybody checked in?

Unknown
Do you remember the stat from 2021 and 2022 that, like, the Mariners did not lose when Cal Riley hit a home run for some, like, preposterous period? Do you remember this?

Evan James
I do not.

Unknown
I believe that recently.

Evan James
No, not personally, ders. No.

I buy it, though. And I think he's been.

It's not good that he is so important to their identity right now, because he's so up and down. But it is comforting to know that the team has been. They've been okay. They're 18 and 15, right. Like, they've played okay. I think. Especially as it comes to the park factor stuff. This morning, I read that Seattle Times article, and then Luke Arkins was tweeting with Brian Nemhauer Brian Nemhauser, excuse me, who's a guy who does a Seahawks podcast. I really like, and I think what you see is a lot of fans get really impatient with the offense because it's all we watch. Right? Like, if you. When you're only watching the Mariners and you're only watching them struggle all the time and you only see them hitting at T Mobile and then also being bad elsewhere, you get this impression that they just can't hit at all. The reality is that the Mariners are 21st by war, offensive war, and 22nd by WRC. They're not actually the worst team in the league, even though they have the worst park factors. So it sure feels that way when you watch them get shut out in T Mobile park for a couple nights in a row. But it's not actually the case that they are the literal worst. And last year they spent most of the season at 16th around WRC plus, like right in the middle of the league. They pulled all the way up to 10th by the time the season was over. So if you're looking at this and you're really aggravated with these park factors, the Matt says be patient because this is all going to even itself out over time.

They're going to have a summer where it's hot and everybody hits for a month, and we feel much better about all this, and then it's going to cool off again in September and the bats are going to die off.

It's just going to be part of what this looks like. And in terms of bringing the fences in and making them higher, Luke Arkins did a little thing about where the Mariners power has actually gone. They're not really missing any home runs. They're missing doubles. They are a singles home runs team right now and basically nothing in between. So I don't even know if necessarily bringing the fences in and making them higher is going to alleviate the specific thing that's ailing them right now. So my perspective of all of this is I think they've done a bad job of diagnosing how to fix it because they continue to bring in guys who are trying to slug their way out of the the marine layer, and that's not an approach that's going to work. Right. You know who didn't have a problem with the marine layer was Ichiro. Why is that? Because he wasn't trying to outslug it, he was just getting on base. And I think that they have built a bad offense for this part, even if their pitching is good for it.

Unknown
I think that's true. But I also think they did target the correct guys because the guys they like, Polanco and Garver, are not guys who, you know, they do have some home run power, but they primarily are like singles and doubles guys and they do, you know, connect, you know, 20 to 25 homers a year. But I remember seeing like they did, they did. Some people, I should say fans online were doing some, some research on like Polanco and, you know, what his power numbers would have been in T Mobile and they were like very similar to what he did last year because he's just a hitter that fits the park well.

Whereas like someone like Isoc Paredes, I think, would lose like more would have lost like more than half of his home runs last year if they all came in T Mobile.

So I actually will push back against that and I think that they've actually started to draft and develop the correct guys, too. Like Cole Young is like a prime example of the kind of hitter who should thrive in Seattle because he is a guy that, you know, he's got very good plate discipline. He hits a lot of doubles. He has some over the fence power, but that's not like the primary driver of his game. I would say the same is true for like Harry Ford and then the power guys you get need to be the guys that have like the light tower power or it doesn't really matter where they hit it. Like Nelson Cruz was so strong that it did not matter if the marine lair was there because he's still hitting the ball 450ft and that's like the Tyler locklear Lazaro Montez style of hitter.

I think where you get in trouble is like the task or Hernandez who like he hits 30 homers but he's not like hitting it 450ft and you may lose a lot of homers that are kind of on the edges that way and that is a primary place where his pat, where his production comes from because he strikes out a lot. He's not really much of a contact guy.

So I do think that like maybe he wasn't the right guy for this park, but I actually do think that Garver and Polanco should in theory be good fits and I'm a little bit concerned that they haven't been playing to what we expected. To this point, though, Polanco again is turning things around. Garver might be. I mean, he had two doubles in yesterday's game against Houston. He had that walk off in Atlanta against Atlanta. I have some faith that he'll turn it around, but definitely worth kind of keeping an eye on those guys.

Unknown
I also just, like, every time we talk about Ta Oscar, I want to remember, like, he was available for Eric Swanson and Adam Matchko and, like, that's a trade you make. Even if Ta Oscar Hernandez is not perfect for T Mobile park, like, that's a trade to make. I love Eric Swanson, but, like, you do that well.

Unknown
And the reason Ta Oscar is a lightning rod for criticism is because he was their big addition last year. Right. And that is the fault of the front office for not, you know, supplementing the roster with more than Ta Oscar Hernandez, which made Ta Oscar Hernandez, like, kind of the get the brunt of the criticism for the offense not. Not playing well because he was supposed to be, like, the big addition.

Evan James
I think Ta Oscar is emblematic of the Mariners getting a guy they think is going to solve all their problems and having them perform almost exactly as expected and having it not even be close to enough. Right. The Mariners very much came out last year and were like, he's the guy. We're going to stick him in there. It's going to solve all our problems. It solves some of the problems. He was a competent starter, but it didn't alleviate, but it brought it to other additional problems with it. It brought, you know, another hundred strikeouts because he was.

Because he's de Oscar. And the. The mix of everything is important. I would agree with you, Anders, that you think Polanco and Garver are better fits for this team. I'm going to ask both you guys the same question I pitched to Kate and John. Do you think those guys are cold or cooked? My answer was cold. What would you say?

Unknown
Yeah, I think cold for both. I remember looking at, I forget who said this, and so I apologize for not crediting this person, but basically the. The first month of the season for Garver, the stretch that he was on is not uncommon for him in terms of his career. He tends to have, like, a stretch like that pretty much every season.

It may be just so happened that this cold stretch came in the first month of the season, and I think it was on this podcast that, like, it was mentioned, like, you know, garver is, in theory, not a stranger to de aging, so it really should not be, you know, a big step for him to go from catching to de aging regularly. This is something that he's used to doing. I wonder if it's just a matter of, you know, adjusting to the park, adjusting to the new team, coupled with just, you know, some early season struggles. His babbit was really bad. I know in that first month, you know, nothing was falling for him, and it seems to be improving more now. Polanco, I think, maybe was pressing and maybe is still pressing, you know, kind of trying to impress with a new team being in them, in the key. A key part of the order.

But in the case for Polanco, actually, you know, as it pertains to the Mariners, they can almost afford for him to be. To be a little bit worse because of, you know, the way his contract is set up. You know, you mentioned this, Evan, on the last pod. Garver is here for the next two years, so they're not going to move on from him for the rest of the season. Polanco has an option at the end of the year, so it comes to July or August, and he's really, really bad. They can move on from him without a lot of consequence.

So I guess I'm more. So looking at Garver, I suppose, to turn things around with a little bit more urgency than I am. Polanco.

Unknown
Yeah, I think they're both cold, and I don't have a ton more to say about it than everybody else has. But I think it's. It's something you said on the last podcast, Evan. Like, you're just getting 30th percentile outcomes from a lot of guys all at the same time. And because this is a pitching first team, when the offense is doing 30 percentile outcomes, it becomes really hard to watch. And like you were saying, it's like, it's what people go to see. And I think appreciating the art of pitching rather than just the results of it takes a lot more time.

But I don't think any listeners of this podcast are exactly casual fans of the Mariners. And to the extent that you're not able to differentiate between pitches when you're watching them, that you're not able to follow what a pitcher is trying to do in a certain count or something, making a little effort to enjoy that. I think if you start trying to watch for that stuff, it will start to be a lot more enjoyable.

So that's my advice to anybody who's frustrated.

Evan James
Yeah, 100%.

Unknown
They're winning.

Evan James
Yeah, this is what they're good at. Watching the pitching rocks. Like, I understand, I legitimately do understand that it feels like the Mariners have had no offense in like four years. I completely. I totally feel that in my soul sometimes when I watch this team. But they're 18 and 15. They beat Houston last night. They took a series from Texas. In Texas. They took a series from Atlanta. They're playing okay. They're playing. They're playing frankly better than I maybe even expected. And I'm very high on this team. It's coming a different way than I expected. I thought they were going to strike out less, hit a little more, and not have revolutionary generational pitching in the first month. But you take what you get, right? And as you said, they're getting the 30th percentile outcomes from the guys in the offense. They're getting the 99th percentile outcomes from everybody in the rotation and at least 90th percentile outcomes for most of the guys in the bullpen. Cody Bolton, Trent Thornton, Ryan Stanick. These guys are pitching out of their minds. We don't even have Matt Brash here. Like, I have a hard time, I think, lately empathizing with like the doom around some of the stuff because they're playing well. This is good. I'm having fun.

Unknown
Right?

Unknown
Well, you know, negative engagement gets more engagement and I think that that messes with people's brains.

It's also makes them genuinely more negative. It's not just that it like, it's like an intentional, deliberate feedback loop, but it like alters how you think about things.

Unknown
That a run suppressed is the same as a run scored, although it doesn't feel like it. Right. It feels like a run scored means more than a run suppressed.

And I think some Rangers fans about that, it's true. But also the Mariners have been running like with good pitching and bad hitting for like the last two decades at this point. Or, you know, the pitching has always been ahead of the hitting for the last two decades, I would say.

And I think that fans are just so used to that and now they're just like, this team is supposed to be good and they expect that the hitting will be good as a result of the team being good.

But I think that this is a team that even when they're good, will always likely have like an average to slightly above average offense in their good years. This is not a team that's going to be like top five in the league and run score. I don't think at any point, you know, when all these great prospects graduate that they have in the system right now, I think that they're probably aiming for like a top ten offense than a top five offense. Yeah.

Unknown
Last year they had a 109 WRC, which was, you know, trailing digits aside, was like basically tied for 7th.

It was technically 9th on the list, but it was tied for 7th three teams there.

Unknown
Really good nine.

Unknown
That's really, really good. It just.

And that's not ex.

August is like propping that up in large debris, but not entirely. You know, a lot of that is just the park factor issue and that the Mariners in raw runs scored were much, much worse than that.

Unknown
Yeah, a 109 WRC is park adjusted, which means that it doesn't. It's not going to feel like a 109 wRC.

Unknown
I think it surprises a lot of people when they hear that.

Unknown
I mean, it's just hard to process in the moment because you're so used to using adjusted stats that you kind of forget what it means to use an adjusted stat.

And so, yeah, that's kind of what I mean when I say the runs scored are never going to be top ten in the league. They may run a WRC plus that's top five the league, but the run scored is never going to be that.

And that's fine. Like we talked about all preseason, if this team has a top three rotation, which it looks like they do, they need a league average offense. And Evan, you mentioned it, 22nd WRC plus. They're really not that far off, especially this early in the season, from getting to that point. You know, I think that is still very much within reach to get into the. Into the teens, the mid teens. Um, so I'm still hopeful that, you know, that will be the part that regresses the mean, hopefully more than the pitching regresses to the mean. They both will, I think, to an extent. And the question really is, which will regress more because of the pitching regresses more, the Mariners could be in more trouble. Whereas if the hitting regresses more, maybe they, you know, can compete for that division title. Realistically, can I level with you?

Evan James
I don't think the pitching is going to regress that much. They're not going to be 100 year greatness every two weeks for the entire season. But as long as they're healthy, like.

Unknown
And that's the thing is, I think that they've gotten really lucky on health.

Evan James
Otherwise, though, assuming all their arms stay on and like, right now everything seems fine.

Well, why would they pitch worse? They've been. They've been good for two years. They. This is the second year in a row they're playing like this and they've.

Unknown
Been lucky on health. But, you know, let's not forget that, like, as we discussed earlier in this podcast, they are missing one of their top five guys in the rotation. They're missing two of their three best relievers. Like, they have not been entirely without injury.

Unknown
No, but.

But they've been very fortunate in that these top four guys have all stayed healthy last year.

You know, I feel like that. I think there was a one il sent from Bryce Miller last year. Nobody else had none of those.

Unknown
Excuse me. Robbie Ray had Tommy John surgery after one.

Unknown
I'm talking about the current big four.

Unknown
Yeah, but that's not, that's not luck, right. That is having the depth to be able to withstand, which is, again, how, like, Hancock has been fitting in this year because he's their number six starter, and as we discussed earlier, he would be in the rotation on about half the teams in baseball.

Unknown
Right. That's true. No, you make a good point.

Unknown
I'm not denying that there's been injury luck. I just like, it is not. The luck has not been the, like. Decide. The injury luck has not been the decisive thing in what's been going on.

Evan James
Agreed.

And even if they do experience some real injury attrition later on, basically everybody else is experiencing that, too. So if I'm trying to convey anything right now, it's that I feel very, very calm about the state of this team. I don't think everybody in the world does, all the Mariners fans, but, like, legitimately, after an April like this, I don't think I could feel better about their prospects.

Unknown
Sorry. Last year, when we were talking about this time, we were talking about how, like, everything below the hood seemed relatively fine, and we were sort of, like, not concerned about the quality of the team, but the fact that they had lost all these games was like it mattered. As, like, those losses piled up. They were digging themselves into a hole that was going to be hard to get out of, even though they looked like a pretty quality team. And what do you know? They missed the playoffs by one game this year. Like, maybe some of the pitching is, like, out over their skis, but, like, they're currently in first place. They've got a six game lead on Houston leading into today. They've, like, done the thing where they have won a bunch of games, and it's going to make things easier going forward.

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Evan James
Summer and the AL west is conspiring to help them so far.

And sometimes, like we said, it's, it's a combination of being good and lucky. Their pitching is great, their competition is struggling right now, and they're taking advantage of the wins that they didn't get last year. How many times did we talk last year about how their best moments, the Colton, Colton Wong grand slam, right, that, like, if you pick one moment in a year to win, it should be that. And they lost that game. They won the Mitch Garver walk off. They've won the Julio walk off. They have won these games that they have held late. Like, this is what it looks like.

Unknown
The one example of, like, a game that was like, oh, like, how did they not pull that out? Was that Colorado game with that preposterous call with the home run that was reversed into fan interference that took it into extra innings, and then they lost in extras.

Unknown
Like, that's the one where it was.

Unknown
Like, we could have used a little bit of magic there to capitalize on that. But that's one example over a month. And like you say, there have been a lot more of these things that have come together in a really, like, narratively satisfying way.

Unknown
Even the Braves and Dodgers are going to have games where they're like, oh, my God, we really should have won that game. Right? It's just a matter of how few. All right? How few and far between are those?

And last year, it seemed like that there were so many, like, soul crushing defeats for the Mariners. That season's still young. You know, there could be plenty to come, but I hope, I'm hopeful that they can pull a few more out of those wins. And a lot of that does come down to the pitching. And, like, if you suppress a lot of runs, you maybe don't get yourself in those situations in the first place where you're in a situation to blow a game like that.

Unknown
Well, and the narrative just lives so big in the psyche, right? Like, the Mitch Garver walk off. This was this, like, epic pitching performance that felt like it was being wasted. And then to have in the bottom of the 9th, these two guys who are new to town, who've been struggling, who were supposed to be helping to prop up the offense, like Jorge Polanco leads off with a. With a hit, and then Mitch Garver gets the first walk off of his career. And it, like, the narrative of that feels very magical.

It's very satisfying. It's very cathartic. It's wonderful. It's. It's euphoric. But, like, there's nothing that magical about Jorge Polanco getting a hit and Mitch Garver hitting a home run. They're Jorge Polanco and Mitch Garver. You know, like, that's. The narrative looms very large in this stuff in a way that is not true to an event that has a game that has 300, 400 individual pitches in it, that the order that they line up and the outcomes of those events is, I think, not as consequential as we often think they are.

Unknown
Can I ask you a question, though? And maybe this is being overly pessimistic to even discuss this, but who in the lineup are you the most concerned about? So if we are. If we're saying that Garver and Polanco are just cold, not cooked, who do you think is the most possibly cooked in the lineup right now?

Unknown
Well, those are different questions.

Evan James
I have an answer that nobody's going to like. So, Zach, go first.

Unknown
Well, who am I most concerned about? And who do I think is most likely to be cooked are very different because the person I'm most concerned about is Hulu.

Because this is now the third year in a row where he is struggling early. And what I have seen from him so far is not a disaster. There's plenty to feel like he's still Julio. We have seen the talent. He's so young, he's so good. There's no way he's like this. But I do sort of have concerns that his ceiling that I foresaw two years ago last year, entering this year, like, it just the height of his ceiling keeps getting a little lower for me. And the more he struggles, and the more he struggles, it's sort of the same kind of stuff. Like, he's continuing to really get busted inside and not know what to do with it.

That has me concerned, even as I still think he's the best hitter on the roster. You know what I mean? Like, I'm the most concerned about him 100%. He's still the best.

Unknown
Yeah.

Unknown
Who's the most likely to be cooked? I don't have as good of an answer to, but it sounds like you do, Evan.

Evan James
Well, I like you. Now that I've thought about this, do have two. I think who's most likely to be cooked is obviously Luke Rayleigh. He just might not be a professional baseball player, period.

Unknown
Yeah.

Evan James
I don't know how else to put that. But in terms of who am I most worried about so far? I got rebuffed hard by Kaden John for this. But I do not think Ty France looks very good.

Unknown
Is it more ass?

Evan James
He is a 96 wrC. Plus he's below Polanco. And everyone's talking about Polanco looks like he's cooked. Ty France looks awful. I understand that he went to driveline and he. He looks like he's in better shape and stuff, but his plate appearances are still not great.

Still hitting soft fly balls to the outfield for.

For no gain. Like, I just. I'm not seeing what everybody else is seeing when I'm being told that he looks like a different guy. And so I'm seeing the guy I saw last year, and that guy wasn't very good. So it gives me a lot of pause. Do you guys agree on that? What do you think?

Unknown
I think my thing with France is that even if he reverts back to the mean, it's still not a very interesting player to me. And this is someone who I really like, Ty France. And he's. He's like a very aesthetically pleasing hitter to watch when he's playing well.

But just in terms of the numbers, like a first base profile for a guy who is like a 115 WRC plus. And I know he had, you know, in 21 and 22, he was closer to 130 even was still like just barely a three win player.

I just don't know a if he's going to get back to that in the first place. And I be. I don't know if 80% of that is like an interesting player to have on your roster.

And I'm kind of. I'm kind of ready for Tyler Locklear season come the summer.

So maybe that's part of the reason that I. That I feel this way about France is that I'm just ready to move on to the next thing. But I do have hope that Francis turned around. He is a guy who, you know, he doesn't have.

He doesn't have the problem that like Julio has and that like, you know, I dare bring up his name again, but Tay Oscar had last year where they're just like swinging at like totally unhittable pitches. You know, I think he has a good idea of what he can hit. I just. He hasn't been putting a lot of authority into the ball recently.

But Zach, you.

Unknown
That's the thing I disagree with you about.

That's what I disagree with you about most. I think he's hitting the ball with more authority than ever. His, his hard hit rate is higher than ever. His exit velocities are, is higher than ever.

And that lines up with the things that they specifically talked about. He improved upon at driveline is getting some of that bat speed back that he got through miles an hour bat speed back. And I think he has been really unlucky on contact, particularly on the slugging side.

John talked about how because he's so slow and his ground balls don't become hit so often. That's really true, and he's going to suffer for that. But the home runs and doubles that he's losing, I think are not entirely related to that.

He is in terms of ex woba minus woba, which is to say how unlucky he has been. He is 10th out of 174 qualified hitters and say you think that some of that is legitimate. It's not that extreme.

10th out of 174 is extreme for a factor like luck. And so I'm not that concerned about Ty France.

And I think it'll just we need to wait a few months to see whether those improvements that seem like they are real are real. And I know that it's very easy to get impatient when he struggled last year asking for more patients because the results are not matching the process yet is like, a hard ask, but I think you need to be willing to do it.

Unknown
So, first of all, I just want to say I'm not banging the drum to, like, cut tie France right now because I, for one, I don't think Locklear is necessarily ready. I'd like to see him playing Tacoma first anyway.

But my question for you, Zach, is are you interested in the profile that tie France provides at first base? Like, if he is the player that you think that he is, is this a player that you're interested in having as you're starting first baseman?

Unknown
Sure.

I mean, a, so his, his ex, Boba, is 355. Let's say some of that is too high because of the speed issue. So let's say his, like, true talent is like, 340.

That's absolutely. Like, that's good for a first baseman.

I have no problem with the fact with, like, how he does it or the fact that he's slow.

He's not supposed to be the best hitter on the roster. Which isn't to say I would not prefer that the Mariners have Freddie Freeman or Matt Olson, like, I obviously would. But, you know, in terms of roster construction, like, I don't think it's that big of a deal to have a first baseman like that. Like, I think that's fine.

Unknown
You have successfully talked me off the ledge of him being totally cooked, but you have not successfully talked me off the ledge of him being the long term solution. But it remains to be seen. There's obviously a lot of season left, so I'm ready to be reconvinced on tie France.

Unknown
Well, you know, for one thing, like, I don't disagree that the results have not been what you want to see. Like, that's unequivocally true. And in terms of the long term solution, you know, I don't know. Like, he's only under contract for one more year after this, not even.

Unknown
It's an Arb year. So they could. It's an RB.

Unknown
Yeah, they could. They could not. They could absolutely not tender him, and it wouldn't shock me if that's the outcome that happens. But I do think it's more likely than not that he is a better player than he has been so far this year that he gets a contract, and it's fine. And then maybe they don't qo him and he moves on and we move on and everything's fine.

Like, long term solution. I think you're right. Like, it's not tie France, but how long term are we talking here?

Unknown
This is true France. And I will say I have a lot of respect for what France did for us, specifically in the 21 season, when literally he and Mitch Hanniger were the whole offense for, like, three months, and they kept this team, like, above water and potentially competitive for all that time. And he was, like, particularly fun to watch over that stretch. He was very good in 22, obviously, in the first half, had that all star season. You know, he is a player who I very much like as a human.

Like I said, when he's playing well, he's very fun to watch. I just worry about him long term. But I guess, to your point, like, do we have to worry about long term with him?

Unknown
Maybe not well, and do we really have to worry? Like, can we just take a moment? The Mariners are in first place. Like.

Unknown
This is why I felt bad asking the question in the first place, who you thought was cooked. But, yes.

Unknown
Well, the game is well underway. We've been going for a while. Do we want to do our listener question?

Evan James
Did we get it? I didn't queue for questions. So did we go?

Unknown
Yeah, I got one.

Not through the Twitter account.

Unknown
Oh, yes.

Unknown
I got a question from Axel. Axel is four years old, and Axel's dad reached out to me because Axel is a huge fan of the podcast and really, really wanted to submit a question.

So thank you, Hunter, for helping us access Axel's questions.

Evan James
And good for his dad, keeping him off Twitter.

Unknown
Yeah, right. Yeah. Axel doesn't need a Twitter account.

So according to Hunter, Axel's first question is, how does milk get to the store?

And while that's an excellent question, I'm going to suggest that Axel ask his parents that question, and we will not deal with it on the podcast.

But Axel's second question was, how do catchers catch?

And my first thought was, well, we could probably dig into something interesting about that. But, you know, that's like, that's a four year old's question.

But after a little back and forth with Hunter, I learned that what Axel is getting at is, like, what is the proper way for a catcher to set up to receive the ball? Which is like, actually, I think, a great question and surprisingly insightful from a four year old.

Unknown
And this is something that, like, I'm. I'm often. I don't even know if this is the question, but I'm, like, often amazed by the fact that the catcher seems to always know generally where the baseball is going, right? Because even pitchers with bad command could throw the ball completely off the target, and yet the catcher always seems to be well prepared to receive the ball. So the instincts of a catcher constantly amaze me.

Unknown
I think there's something to it that is similar to chicken sexing, where it's just like, you get that many reps in and you start to just intuit how this is going, and you become expert at it without even being able to articulate it. What it is that you're seeing that makes you able to do that 100%.

Evan James
But go ahead.

Unknown
Yeah, go ahead, Zach.

Unknown
So, in answer to Axel's core question here, I think the answer is that there is not one proper way to set up to receive the ball. And that is one of the things that we have learned about baseball over the past decade or so as the art of catching has become more analytical. So sometimes you see them on one knee, sometimes you see them in a crouch. Sometimes you see them with, like, one leg, you know, out to the side, sort of like they're halfway into the splits. And it just really depends on what pitch they're expecting to get, how many runners are on base, which runners those are like, who the individual people are that are on base, and what they're trying to do with the pitch that they're catching. Are they, is it going to be a low pitch and they're going to try to move it up into the strike zone to make it more likely that it gets called a strike? Is it, are they expecting a high pitch where they need to, like, be raised up a little bit and into that crouch so that they can actually reach it? I think the answer is, like, there's not actually one answer to this question, and that is perhaps why you see so much variation and why it's so hard to know what the like, quote unquote right way is to catch a baseball.

Unknown
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Evan James
Absolutely. And I also think the footwork in particular is, can be. Is not exclusively situational, but it can be, if you're going to pick somebody off on third base, you might leave your leg out. If you're going to immediately throw a pick off to second after a pitch is thrown, you might, you know, not go into a full squat beyond an east. You can pop up quicker. That's not a universal thing, but there are some catchers who kind of cheat a little bit with those particular movements.

But footwork for a catcher is one of those things. Like you said, there's not a single way to do it. And I'm sure every catching instructor in all the major leagues has a slightly different methodology about what to use when and what to stick with what. And as we see with the Mariners, like, Cal Rawley's a really big dude. Some of the things he does is because he is abnormally large for a catcher, and the way that he actually kind of manipulates his body to the situation versus, you know, if you see a really squat catcher, somebody small. Yvonne Rodriguez. Once upon a time, he's kind of one of those lightning in a bottle people because his size meant that he barely even had to crouch to catch in some cases. So it was like he was halfway into a pickoff attempt at all times. It just depends. But there's no right way to do it. The right way to do it is where the strike gets called, the pitch doesn't get hit, and the runner gets thrown out. Right. That's the ultimate measurement for that. But, uh, what do you think? There's.

Unknown
Sorry, my computer was having some, uh, some issues getting to the unmute button. No, I think that that's very true. And. And I think this is one of the reasons why you often see catchers become coaches later on is because, like, there's so much game strategy that goes into all this, you know, this very basic thing that a catcher does 100 times plus a game. But there's so much strategy that goes into, you know, calling the. Calling the pitch from the. From the pitcher and setting up to receive the pitch and, like, looking at the running game and making sure you understand, you know, who's getting too far off the base. And, like, a catcher's job is extremely difficult. And this is why, like, it is even more impressive when you get a catcher who can also hit the ball really well, like, a cal rally.

And even. Even Cal Rawley, like, might not quite be good enough to be, like, a dh, per se, but he is one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, and he's also one of the best receiving catchers in baseball.

So the Mariners have something quite special with Raleigh that I think we should, you know, continue to appreciate as much as possible. And by all accounts, Harry Ford is quite the catcher himself. And so I think the Mariners are going to be pretty set up on that end of things for. For the foreseeable future, so I'm very thankful for that.

Evan James
With that mention of Harry Ford, do you want to segue us into a little prospect talk and then we'll wrap for today?

Unknown
Well, yeah, I just want to mention.

Unknown
How milk gets to the store.

Unknown
As someone who worked at a grocery store, I still have no idea how milk gets to the store.

Unknown
All right, second question.

The Mariners have the basis loaded with nobody out. Hunter Brown just walked in a run.

How many more runs do they score here?

Unknown
Two.

Evan James
I'm going to say three just to be the optimist.

Unknown
I'll say one just for differentiation.

Unknown
Okay.

Unknown
Appreciate that people listening will be able to assess our predictions here.

Unknown
Who's the best? It's gonna be zero. Don't worry.

Unknown
All right, talk to us about the minor leagues.

Unknown
Yeah, I just want to say a couple of things, one being that Jerry Depot is in Arkansas this weekend, or was in Arkansas this weekend, probably by the time you're listening to this, which is important, because both Harry Ford and Tyler Locklear, who I think are probably the two most interesting and also closest to the majors prospects in Arkansas right now, and both of them are on an absolute tear.

So I'm very curious, you know, and this kind of segues, you know, into what we were talking about with France. But, like, I would not be surprised if either of those guys probably locklear, if they move either of them up to Tacoma anytime soon, because they probably want to give forward some more run at double a than just like the one month that he's gotten so far.

Unless they're planning to move him off catcher, then maybe they push him to Tacoma as like, an outfielder or something.

But I'm very interested to see, you know, if Depot makes any moves from Arkansas based on having gone to see them in person. Slash, why would he go to see them in person? Is there, is there, like, a player he wants?

Oh, that could be the case, yes. And Logan Evans, who's like, I know Jerry Depot's like, new favorite thing, started yesterday and threw six shutout innings with, I think, nine strikeouts.

Unknown
That's right.

Unknown
Yeah. No walks. He. So he's pretty incredible himself. So, you know, those are probably the three guys that Jerry was most interested in seeing. Obviously, Cole Young is there, too, but he's kind of trying to get his feet under him still at this, at this point. So I just wanted to point out that fact that those are some exciting players that are kind of down the pipe. And the other one is that Modesto is absolutely fricking crazy. They're averaging eight runs per game. They have a higher run differential in baseball than any, um, than any minor league team or major league team does right now. Um, the last I checked, it was plus 88, and that was, I think, three days ago, so it's probably higher than that now. Um, so, you know, Modesto is pretty crazy.

Unknown
Yeah. Last year's 88 win mariner team had what, like the plus 90 run differential?

Unknown
Something like that. Right?

Unknown
Plus 88 after like a month.

Unknown
Yeah. So Modesto is. Is absolutely insane. I have very much enjoyed following them through the MiLB Mariners account. But, you know, if you have an MLB tv account, there's like, there's national prospect writers I know who are, like, making the Modesto nuts appointment television, which is extremely cool, but they have a number of prospects who are, like, getting a lot of buzz, obviously, you know, Cole Emerson, Lazaro Montez being two, but, like, Johnny Farmello is really taking off. Tai Pete has had a really couple of good weeks.

Caleb Collie, if you don't know who he is, is like the best hitter in their lineup. He is an old for the level prospect who is a late teens draft pick last year, late teens round draft pick, that is. But he is a guy who's tearing the COVID off the ball. So he could be like a kind of an older prospect, maybe in the Cade Marlowe kind of mold of player who could kind of work his way up the. Up the system and be somewhat interesting as a non prospect of sorts, even like the players who. Who aren't big names, are performing well. So this is a team that, if you have the time to, and you're looking for something to do, go flip on a Modesto nuts game and kind of enjoy just the absolute destruction of the entire California league that they're putting on right now.

Unknown
And those guys are so far away. But it is just so encouraging to see some good minor leaguesters on the hitting side, because we talk all the time about this rotation and the. The pitching development in this organization. It is really nice to see more examples of.

I think their track record on the hitting side is actually quite underrated, but regardless, the pitching side has been the better side, unquestionably, and it's nice to see the hitting side catching up.

Evan James
I think the best news in all of that that you didn't mention is Colt Emerson went on the injured list with an oblique injury. And my understanding was that he was pretty sore and he was back playing less than a week later. So what looked like it could have been a month to even a six week, two month injury, he's playing like that's. That's about as good news as you can hope for, for a prospect. Um, I've gotten. I personally preached a lot about Tyler Locklear being my next pick for, like, Mariner, prospect star. Uh, he's batting 318 right now, so if you're looking for him this year, I would say he.

We literally talked about this on Thursday, and I said it was a pipe dream at the time. It's still not coming soon, but he is.

Unknown
I think he could be up in August. Yeah, I think he could be up in August.

Evan James
Very much so.

Zach was shaking his head when I said, tyler Locklear, the next mariner superstar?

Unknown
No, I was shaking my head at the idea that Julio had swung at a pitch that he had not swung at. And in fact, the first base umpire agreed with me about that.

Evan James
Gotcha.

Unknown
Gotcha.

Evan James
Well, they did score again. So, Zach, you got.

Unknown
You're in.

Evan James
You're in there, or you said two, right?

Unknown
I said one.

Evan James
You said one. So it's 20 right now, so you are correct. And thank God he didn't.

Unknown
Look at that.

Evan James
Julio is up.

Anything else for today, guys, or should we wrap it here?

Unknown
Down. Good.

Evan James
We're going to watch. We're going to go watch Julio finish out this at bat. So thank you. To mcDougal bats. If you need to get your hitting game up, McDougal bats got you covered. Use the code. Go Ems. Get dollar 20 off. Get us a little kickback. We love that.

We'll be back with John and Kate and also a second podcast, hopefully with Zach and Dur sometime next week. Until then, go Mariners. First place in the American League west and Drake lost it.

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They Not Like Us - What if the Pitching is Sustainable? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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Episode Chapters

1: Logan Gilbert’s Dominance

2: Pitching Staff Analysis

3: Prospects and Future Talent

4: Sustainability of Pitching Success

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