Much Ado About Bryan Woo - Is The Rotation Set For October? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

John Trupen
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John Trupen
Hello and welcome. Thank you all for meeting us at the Mitt. My name is John Trupen. I am the deputy managing editor at Lookat landing.com, and we, the good people of Lookat landing.com, are thrilled to bring you the Meet at the Mitt podcast.

Here to talk about the Seattle baseball Mariners, I am joined by Kate Pruser, managing editor of Lookout Landing.com.

kate, how are you?

Jenna
Hello.

I am here.

John Trupen
We are.

Yeah, we are. We are bringing. Bringing the noise, bringing the funk of the slight hangover that the Seattle Mariners have been inflicting upon us on a. On a Wednesday that feels like a Monday. I don't know if it does for any of you, but it's. It's been quite a tough road trip.

Joining us to balance out our humors and hopefully some humor as well, we also have Evan James, audio engineer. Evan, how goes about you?

Spencer
Well, I don't know if I'd call the hangover slight personally, but now that I am here, um, I want to say, everybody take a deep breath, because we've had a. We've had a very, very rough road trip week so far. Like, extremely tough, arguably excruciating, like, getting repeatedly kicked in the shins at times.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Spencer
And, uh, I watched all of it, and, uh, virtually none of it was good. So I can say for sure you didn't miss anything if you missed it. But I'm here to tell you that I legitimately think, and we're going to talk about it today. I think everything's okay. I think the Mariners still have a five game plus lead in the division. I think that they still have a pretty clear path to get to the all star break without using Brian woo, which, knock on wood, seems to be mostly intact.

I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. But he seems to be alive and kicking for now. So theoretically, he should rejoin the rotation at some point. And we will be okay. We're going to be okay. I understand a lot of the. The trepidation and the anxiety this week because it was. It was a really, really rough week. Like, almost unprecedentedly so far the season. It was rough more, I would argue even more so than the first two weeks because the first two weeks, we just sucked. There wasn't anything to worry about yet. Right. We were just bad. Now we're good, and we have to worry about being bad because it's taking us out of competition. But we're going to be okay. What do you guys think?

John Trupen
Oh, first of all, I would like Brian wooded not be kicking. I want to throw that put myself on record as no kicking, please.

Spencer
No hamstring activity for several days at least.

John Trupen
Kate, you are shaking your head wistfully.

Jenna
I know that because I look like an overgrown cabbage patch doll occasionally. You think that same sweet, optimistic outlook would be congruent with my personality. It is not. I am a black cloud of doom at all times, and I am dooming about the Mariners because this road trip, like all the road trips before it, have exposed the deficiencies of this team, which are they cannot consistently play good offense, they don't play well away from home, and they do not match up well with teams that are better than them. And while at the same time, funnily enough, playing down two teams much worse than them, like the Marlins and the Rays, which was frustrating. And I thought the Rays was going to be the part that I'm maddest about with the road trip. I thought they played the Guardians about like I expected them to play the Guardians. I thought the Rays, they always have a tough time in Tampa Bay. For whatever reason, Dome is cursed, always was.

But playing so badly against the Marlins was, I think, a personal low point for me with feeling good about the future of this team. It is just so horrible to watch them bat. It's so unpleasant. It feels like taking very unpleasant medicine, like that orange yucky medicine that you had to take when you had like a sore throat as a kid. Like, it's just that like, I have to force myself to watch it.

There are very few batters in the lineup that I actively look forward to watching. Mostly I'm just hoping for them to, like, work a starter's pitch count.

Josh Rojas had a rough road trip and he has been one of the more steady hands. And it just shows you how much, like when just one of the players who has been holding this craft aloft falters and the rest who are just consistently not doing a lot. Julio, Julio, Julio. It's so disappointing that he has not yet found his stride and keep waiting for it because we know it's in there, you know that he is better than this, but it is just not coming through and it's, it's damaging. It's damaging to watch Polanco.

We'll see what he adds, but oh boy, it's just up and down the lineup.

It's so hard to watch.

Spencer
Can I agree and disagree real quick? I agree with with everything you said, but I would say that the low point was actually the first game against the Rays, because giving away that run on the Saucedo escapade, whatever that was, that inning, and then losing by essentially that margin later, that might have been the most painful loss of the year for me personally. And like, there have been some rough losses, but I think they played their ugliest baseball of the month in Tampa. And losing. Losing the Marlins is one thing. Losing the Marlins is definitely bad. But as ugly as they look the first two games in Tampa, I would say those are the low points of the season for me so far. And this is me bringing sunshine to the podcast, by the way.

John Trupen
It'S interesting because I think our conversation, one of our recent conversations, came near the end of the road trip, or at the end, or rather the home stand recently, where really they had played consistently quite well. You know, the offense had not been overpowering, but against Texas, you know, they scored seven, they scored five, they scored eight. They put decent offensive numbers against the White Sox, even though, or rather, they, they scored enough against the White Sox for most of the games, even though they could have done far better.

And the White Sox have, for all their foibles, some decent starting pitching. It was frustrating then to feel as though they were much better and they were eking out these wins, but they were racking up the wins, and I think that was a major point.

Putting, you know, putting aside here is the flip side of that. They had a few very winnable games that they didn't eke out of, and so the games where they don't have it are all the more frustrating because they didn't get those coin flips. They didn't get that. That first Tampa game. They didn't get the final or the first or the final Miami game.

They had.

You know, this was, I guess, the. The best offensive showing from. From them in Tampa. And even that was primarily, thank goodness, Cal Rawley came up, got a three one count, and got exactly the pitch that.

Jenna
Where would we be without Cal Rawley?

John Trupen
Right.

Spencer
The only good hitter this entire series. What happened?

John Trupen
Well, what I think is.

Is very concerning is, thankfully, Cal has been, even though Cal has been subpar to his standards overall, he has had these specific, very high leverage hits that. That have completely changed the scope. I think it's not a particularly predictive stat, but the Mariners shared something about, like, the number of home runs a player has hit that have given their team the lead. And Cal, like, has, like, nine of his 13 homers, have, like, either flipped the score or given just flat, given the Mariners lead, like, he has timed his strikes the way in which this lineup fundamentally did not work this last week and does not work with Julio. Like you said, Kate, not making the adjustment is there just is a ceiling that the rest of the roster cannot make up for, and that is on the Mariners for building a roster that was relatively frail in terms of its. Its offensive capabilities.

But ultimately, of the things that should be giving the Mariners trouble, Julio, being a below average hitter, should have been well down the list. And it is.

I am someone who fully believes in Julio Rodriguez as a star.

He is getting significantly worse outcomes on some of his contact than he should.

But fundamentally, he is not hitting well enough, he is not delivering, and he is making bad choices. Right. He is swinging at pitches he cannot handle consistently. They are frequently the same pitches that he was receiving in April and in May. It is the fastballs in off the plate, in on his hands, and then it is pitches off the plate away, and he is doing, I would say, a better job on pitches off the plate away, even though he does chase some, you know, some it's not honestly as bad. His strikeout rate is crept down. It's still up from his career route level, but it's like up a tick or two. That's not going to kill you if you're hitting for power. And instead he is chasing and chasing and chasing these pitches in off the plate that seemingly. They were. They were encouraging him to hit. Right. I mean, that. That was some of the Brent Brown conversation, right? Was that he can get those.

Jenna
Yeah. Some players are allowed to expand the zone if they can get to. And I saw something on, like, fair or foul, it's one of the things they do on root sports. And it was like an inside fastball. And he was like, oh, I can get to that pitch. It's fair. And I was like, that is literally the opposite of any of those things.

John Trupen
Like, yes, they've shown it on the, like, big screen also between innings, and it's rough now.

Jenna
It has aged poorly. But I was going to say this is the same blueprint that pitchers used against him last year, and he adjusted to it. He had the rough time and then he came out and it was great.

But he's not making that adjustment and not consistently.

So he still does damage when he impacts a pitch that's on the plate because that's the pitcher's mistake, honestly. But he's not holding back enough. He's trying to swing his way out of it, I think. And it's. It's. It's very disappointing to see Julio, who's a great learner and great at making adjustments consistently, not make this adjustment.

John Trupen
And it's.

Spencer
If I may. Yeah, I think he. He is trying to make the adjustment and it's not working. And I listened to blowers talk about him today on the broadcast or whatever, and it was pretty clear that, like, Julio is. He's swinging at that inside pitch. That's the plan. He's trying to hit it. He just isn't. And, like, it's not going to change as long as this is the status quo, right? Like, the reality is, if he can't hit that inside pitch, if he keeps swinging at it and keeps fouling it off or missing at it for a strike, he's going to strike out or he's going to foul balls out and then strike out or ground out. Like this is. This is the result. And it's. It's tough because I agree he's not making the adjustment to be successful, but it's tough because I do see him trying to adjust to the game plan and not being successful. And I'm not sure where to go from there because I'm not. I'm not a swing doctor. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not. I'm not a hitting coach, so I don't know what the next step is, but it brings me a real pause when I see him do the thing it seems like they're telling him to do and not see the success from it and continue to because it'd be different if it was a month or two months or three months into the season. We're half a year into this, and he's looked regressed. Like, at a bare minimum, he's look regressed from where he's been before and I'm at a loss.

What do you guys got?

John Trupen
I guess what I would say is it is almost.

It is almost a repudiation of what I think sometimes he has been told to do. And whether this was the goal for him or not, I don't know.

He is making, he is swinging, missing less than he did last year.

He is chasing out of the zone, I believe, about the same or actually less by like a. He is chasing less, he is swinging, missing less. He is overall even about the same fundamentally, swinging about the exact same amount, and he's getting pitches in the zone less. So he is not making, broadly speaking, like he is trying to make more contact and he is honestly actually having more success about it. But the problem is that the contact he is making is worse and he is still making good hay on some of it. And, you know, for all that, it's frustrating. He's beating out a bunch of those ground balls. I think that play today was pretty bang bang that he was overturned on.

Spencer
Mildly encouraging, if nothing else. Like, it's good.

John Trupen
And, and even the, you know, the game they lost where he came up with the bases loaded and hit a opposite way line drive, that auto lope.

Spencer
750 expected batting average, by the way.

John Trupen
Yeah, like, that's, that is great contact, but he's, he is getting the worst outcomes over and over and over again on his contact. I think he, it's not just that he's unlucky, but it is that last year and the year before, he outperformed a lot of expected numbers because he's so fast, because he hits the ball so hard, and because whatever fortune went his way this year, he is getting none of those bounces. And he is not capitalizing on putting, you know, putting a hurt on the ball when he actually gets it in the, in the middle of the plate. Right. There are so many pitches over the heart of the plate that he is not cranking into the. Into the bleachers. And he has nothing ever been the guy who just yanks fly balls deep.

He can do that in batting practice, but in games, he's always been the guy who demonstrates a ton of opposite field power.

That is great, but he's not having success doing that right now. And either that means a big change or it's him trying to figure out how to get back there. Today was like the most frustrated I think I've seen him.

Even when he was, you know, even when he got a walk that set up Cal's homer, he actually was. Looked frustrated because he missed the one pitch he actually got. He. He fouled it off.

Jenna
I don't know what the solution is.

I don't think it is uncharacteristic for your young player to struggle. Yeah, in year three, like, and we saw signs of it last year, but it has just gotten worse. I think the arc of Julio's career will be long and this is just the beginning of it. And it's a slower correction back to the mean than I had expected.

But in the short term, in the immediate term, it points out to the failure of this roster construction that they expected him, predicted that he would do a lot more of the heavy lifting, that they didn't see this coming. And I mean, to be fair, Julio certainly didn't see this coming. None of us saw it coming, but there were no guardrails against it. It was expected that would be Julio and Cal in the middle of the lineup.

And both those players have somewhat underachieved, even though Cal has really, I think, shown an ability in those clutch moments that I think is a learned skill at this point to be able to slow down, control an at bat. That at bat he worked today. That twelve pitch walk or whatever it is, just clap. I love to see him doing that, and I hope that that points to good things coming forward. I also think pitchers fear him. Like there is. Cal Rawley can wreck your day, and he certainly breaks opposing fan bases hearts a lot. And I love having a player like that on the team.

But they have backed that up with a core that is continuing to age. We've run it back with Methane.

They've brought in Rayleigh, who I think they're getting way more production out of than they thought. Canzone has been fairly stagnant, even if he had a good road trip against Miami through gritted teeth.

You know, the second base, the black hole of second base continues black Holing and there's just, are we just going to wait for Cole Young at this point and start the cycle over again with another young player who's going to have to get adjusted to the bigs.

John Trupen
To that, to that point? Because I do want to know this. Like Ryan Bliss had a great week and the Mariner, as Zach pointed out.

Spencer
Against bad pitching, but yes, for sure not taking it away from him, but yes, for sure.

John Trupen
But I think they are rightfully not that comfortable throwing bliss in daily and they're not particularly comfortable throwing bliss in against that many righties, which means, and defensively, I think he is, he has shown his, his strengths, which is his speed and his range and his limitations, which are his arm.

Spencer
And credit for him today, he had a great play today. So again, like, again, credit where it's due. His defense has been better than I think we expected, but he's a known.

John Trupen
Quantity offensively, just, just to, to push on, I guess, Kate's point of second base. Even though Bliss is performing well, they're trying him and they're practicing him in the outfield because I think rightfully they recognize he's got to play out there if he is going to sustain on the roster. In the same way that, you know, Dylan Moore learned the outfield and, you know, Abraham Toro learned the outfield. Shed long learned the outfield. All these, all these players in the fringes learned corner outfield because they had speed and range and bliss is faster than any of them. So at least in terms of range, that would translate. Would I love to be able to smush his positive skills and Dominic Canzone's positive skills, which are near polar opposites as outfielders, into one, which is bliss having great speed and typically pretty good angles, but simply no harm versus Kenzone, who looks like he's like trying to, like, not disrupt water on while he steps. Like, as he runs, he's like trying to basilisk lizard a little bit, like these long, low to the ground strides.

Jenna
He creeps. He's a creeper.

Creeps around the bases, can stand.

Why are you so wiry and yet so slow? It is very frustrating.

But again, like what you said, all of these are parts of a good player. Josh Rojas is parts. I would say Josh Rojas is a more complete version of this because his, you know, it's just, it's like the moneyball thing all over and over and over again. They all have his one big flaw. Like his flaw is he can't hit leftist. His flaw is he runs like a basilisk. His flaw is he sucks.

John Trupen
He's a ten, but he runs like a basilisk.

Jenna
Yeah.

His fly is, he will strike out a lot, and he will run, but he will challenge the rules of physics while doing so. Speaking, of course, of Luke Rayleigh. Like, who, again, I would prefer to watch more than other players, but it's just like, there's no one who is just complete.

And you depended on that being Julio. Julio was supposed to be your five tool player who would give you power, speed, hit, and defense.

And so far, getting the defense.

Getting more than we wanted out of the defense, which is great.

John Trupen
Um, that. That the Spider man catch is still. I know that was. That was, uh, in Cleveland, but, yeah, he.

Jenna
And he really put on a show in Miami. I think, like, Julio does play up to his surroundings. He definitely wanted to do better at my. In Miami, and he did. Oh, I listened to that first game. I was out doing yard work and just listening to it, and I was so frustrated. I wanted to.

It was so. It was going so well, and then two mistakes by the pitcher just sunk the teeth. Like, that's what the first.

Spencer
Wait, the first game, the Brian Woo reuning start?

Jenna
No, sorry. I guess it was the second one. The.

Spencer
Okay, okay. I was gonna say we're not talking about the same thing, clearly, but no, the Miami.

Jenna
That was.

Wasn't the first one. Kirby in Miami.

Spencer
No, because Kirby just. Am I wrong about this?

John Trupen
It would have been Kirby and Miami in. In the first game.

Jenna
Yeah, that's.

Spencer
We lost. We lost.

John Trupen
Right.

Spencer
Kirby pitched it.

John Trupen
That was the walk off in extras.

Spencer
There we go.

Jenna
With Munoz kind of losing it a little at that, which, between that and today, I am low key. Getting very concerned about him from.

Spencer
Yeah, I overuse.

John Trupen
And it's been astonishing that they've been pitching him since he came back from his. His little thing and just have been like.

At least by usage, been. Been like, oh, it's fine that he's just throwing significantly slower. It seems like he's been averaging 96. I don't know that he's been averaging it the entire time, but I. The first. The first outing, at least, that I saw back from him was very, very concerning, and I've not seen him lock it in. It's been a lot of 97 when he passes it up.

Spencer
And even if the velocity isn't your concern, he has otherwise looked terrible. Right. Like, we've seen him pitch. He is. He's not right. I don't know what. I don't know what it is. I'm not here to tell you what it is. I'm here to tell you it's not right. He looked very off when he last pitched. The command was not there. They left him in because they had no other choice because God knows they were not about to put Mike Bauman in there again.

Oh my God.

Jenna
I mean, Bauman gets a lot of hate for letting that game get away on Tuesday, but he was on his third consecutive day. Like you should just note, be relying on someone who was a waiver claim for their third consecutive. Like the bullpen.

The bullpen is really suffering from not having a long guy in it and I think it is probably time to bring up Logan Evans and put Bizardo back to Tacoma.

I mean, you don't, ideally you can use saucedo in whatever mop up duty that you're using bizardo in.

I don't know when Gabe Spire is coming back. Hopefully we'll have an update. Justin Holliday will do his injury update on Friday. I think it is. Usually they do it at the opening of a home stand. It might be until Monday, but we should get. And you know, there's good news about Gregory Santos. He seems to be on his way back.

Spencer
So the bullpen Santa Claus.

Jenna
I'm balancing my concern about Munoz and his overwork with the, the good things. I think the bullpen will eventually sort itself out. I'm concerned about it and it really got exposed on this trip.

But they're going to have a bunch of off days. They'll have the all star break people come back. I'm less worried about that. That in turn, I hope will lessen the load on the pitching staff, which did look very shaky, uncharacteristically shaky and like really disappointing. Obviously, with Kirby and Castillo in particular. They obviously had a game plan to swing at the first pitch of the at bat, put it out of the zone, put it close to the zone, but do not give them a fastball on the plate on the first pitch. They will hit it and that's how you wind up with back to back home runs. Like that was very frustrating game calling. To me with both of those particular outings, it does seem like other teams have, well, cottoned on to the fact that they will be in the zone. You swing early and you swing often and you might, you probably make an out, but you might get very lucky.

John Trupen
Yeah, I thought that that was an interesting. And I mean, it's sort of just a soundbite, but service's response, I think when he was asked about after Bryce Miller's dud of a start, I think it was about like, you know, what's happening on the, on the road trip for on road starts versus at home. And he was saying, well, they get in a heading the count at home, which is, which is true.

Spencer
Great.

John Trupen
But, but the way, the way you get ahead is throwing strikes. And if you, if you are throwing strikes, you're just more liable to give up hit. So, you know, yes, Rice Miller threw did not have great command. And so the strikes that he threw were over the heart of the plate. That's bad. That is fundamentally bad. But I don't have. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me as just, well, they're not doing this on the road for reasons.

Jenna
That makes no sense. Miller had, they all had exactly the same kinds of starts that they would have had at home. Slightly worse. Bryce's was. Bryce's was a bad start. I was disappointed in it. It was, it was bad. He didn't have command of his pitches. He, all of them look like, I imagine they would feel, which are, they are tired. They have been shouldering the load for this team all season long. They know that they have little to no margin down. It's incredibly stressful.

The offense has not been giving them anything. So I figured at some point the pitching would start to wear down. I think we're seeing it all kind of wear down at once.

I think the biggest difference between the road and home is they continue. They always play these close games. And when you're the home team, the conditions of the game favor you. You get to come up in the bottom of the inning and answer back. You get to be the answer back team with the zombie runners and the extra innings, like, you get all those favorable things, plus, like, the way the ballpark is built.

But this all comes, all the problems with this team come back to the offense not producing. Very rare is it that the starter stumbles and the offense has put up like seven runs? I think I can count the number of times that's happened this season on one hand. Like, it just doesn't happen that much. And some of them, you go back and the scores that are lopsided like that are ones where the bullpen has let it get away. I think that even Castillo start, which wasn't so good for Castillo, you know, he was doing his thing where he was like, gonna settle down, but then he had the two wide and, you know, the, the bullpen bears a lot of that responsibility. Yeah, yeah. It's just, it's it's the offense. The offense. The offense. The offense is the problem, and this team is not going to go anywhere.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
If things don't change, that's just the facts of it. Other teams are better than them. The Astros will leapfrog them in the standings if this keeps up because the Astros have found their pace. The Rangers, I don't know so much about them.

As I've said all along, it's the Astros I'm scared of. Like, even when they were down, it was, you know, doing whatever. What's that? The undertaker, the wrestling thing where they pretend to be dead and they come up and just wreck everyone's shit. Like, yes. Yeah, that's the, that's the Astros, like, heel turn after heel turn. So I don't feel great about them maintaining this lead in first place. I don't have feel like they're playing like a first place team, and until things change, and I don't know how they're going to change because, as I said, like, it's all, everybody is three quarters of a complete player, like, and it's frustrating because no one is quite bad enough that, I think because they're all consistent, inconsistent, like, they'll have bad stretches, they'll have good. Like, Ty France has been one of the team's more reliable hitters.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
Mostly because he's been walking. Yes.

Spencer
As of today, in particular coming back from, from injury. Yes.

Jenna
So, like, you can't really take his bat out of the lineup. But now that I have had a taste of Tyler Locklear defense at first base, I don't see how you leave him off the roster, like, and with him, you sort of have the benefit of other teams don't know him. They don't know how to pitch to him. So he's going to get those fastballs over the plate that he can then turn on and crank for home runs that maybe other players aren't going to get.

Spencer
Well, let me pause you real quick, because I think there's, there's two things you brought up that I want to talk about. One, perhaps most importantly, is Brian Woo, and two is Tyler Locklear. But let's talk about Brian Woo first because I think he's more salient to Brian. Wu is on the injured list today for a hamstring grade one strain, which, as far as I'm aware, means that nothing came up on imaging. But he's sore, so they're going to give him the least off and he's going to be back. So it seems like for the most part, he's fine. He's going to come back and pitch again. I understand that. There's been this apocalyptic, like, we can't count on him, we can't trust him anymore. Sentiment from the fan base over the last several days, I get it. He's been injured a lot this year. He's been inconsistent. He's only ever pitched five to seven times in any given stretch without needing time off. I get it. I hear you like 100%. I understand the concern. He's also like worlds better than whoever else we offer that spot. Right? Like, it's not even friggin close. Brian Wu has been savage when he's been pitching in the starting rotation. So on the one hand, I get it. I understand the trepidation. On the other hand, I don't want to hear it because he's been so freaking good. Like, shut up. But I get it. I understand. I understand. So my question is this, what do you do with the rotation? One, because I think Brian Wu, we're talking about Logan Evans potentially returning to the starting rotation and not being in the bullpen, maybe pitching more.

We're talking about Emerson Hancock, who's been injured and has a back injury, potentially pitching in the starting rotation and taking it, taking innings from guys who are otherwise injured.

This is, we're on the razor's edge, right? We are on the knife's edge with this rotation and what they're doing.

What do you guys think of this? Because my, my opinion is clear. I think you go with Brian Woo until it is clear he cannot pitch anymore this year given the way he's gone. And if not, you ride out Emerson, Hancock and Diaz till the end. What do you guys think?

Jenna
I mean, I talked about this, I think on the last podcast about the very unprecedented situation that they're in with Brian Woo where he has just not built up the innings. What he's doing now is what he should have been doing in the minors because he should have been subjecting his body to the rigors of starting. And every fifth day it's different than college even.

And he, not that he had like a long burnished college career or anything, but, you know, his body just isn't used to these rigors.

But he's too good to pitch in the minor leagues. He's not getting anything out of it. He's not going to get that kind of condition right because he's too efficient. He's, he's too good to pitch in those leagues. So you have to have him learning. You have to kind of absorb the blow of maybe he's not available, maybe he goes short because there's nowhere else that he's going to learn this, right? He's not going to learn this in the minor leagues. You have to just deal with the growing pains because of his particular situation.

And, you know, that's why the Mariners were able to get him in the fifth round or whatever it was.

That's why he was available. That's what. Because he didn't have that. Because this was what it was going to look like. It's complex and it's a project, but.

Spencer
And we're ahead of schedule. Like, for what it's worth, we are way ahead of schedule with Brian Woo. He should be still in the minor leagues this year, and he has not been because he has been hit.

Jenna
What should be happening is Emerson Hancock should have pitched better and pitched his way into being the, an actual, true fifth starter on this team while Brian Woo was like, taking his lumps in the minors. But that's not how it went. Emerson Hancock struggled in the minors and is having to relearn a lot of aspects of his pitching, whereas what Wu had was just gonna play in the, in the majors. So they leapfrogged each other kind of.

You ride with Wu as long as you can. I like the idea of bringing Logan Evans up and using him kind of as a piggyback starter. Like, give Wu four innings, give Evans three.

Just have that be. I know that they've done that in spring training and stuff. Like, they were doing that with brash and kirby. Right. For a while while they figured out which one of them was going to start. Other teams have done that. Like, I like that as an option. And you can still have Logan Evans pitch out of the bullpen once in a while, right? Like give him. Give Wu four innings, give Evans three, and then use Evans a couple times out of the bullpen when you need a him. Like, to me, that seems really there are enough because again, this is a question where there's, there's enough depth built in that they can afford to give Brian Woo whatever kind of time he needs. Because you have Hancock, because you have Evans, you have Jonathan Diaz, who is not great but is an okay bad fifth starter. Like if you're, if you're.

Spencer
He's a Tommy Malone fill in.

Jenna
Yeah. I mean, if your team, if you're in good shape, like you've won the series already and it's nothing, maybe a super critical game or it's a good matchup, you know, roll them out. You have a rested bullpen. Whatever.

There's. There's enough pitching depth that they can absorb this.

John Trupen
They also have more off days in this next stretch than they have had in most of, if not the entire first few months.

Jenna
Yes.

Spencer
They can skip two Brian Wu start days between now and the all star break. Is that correct?

John Trupen
Um, I. Thursday's an off day.

Jenna
Next Thursday. I think it's also an off day and then I think Monday is also an off day. So they have like three off days in the next two weeks, maybe.

John Trupen
Yeah, it's. It's Thursday next Monday and then the 8 July, which allows them basically three off days between now and the all star break.

Spencer
Yeah, that's good shape.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
Yeah, and that's.

John Trupen
Yeah, that's.

Jenna
The other thing is you were seeing a team that was just ground down as far and I think that that's been the problem with the starters, really. They have pitched an enormous amount. They've shouldered a huge load physically and mentally. Like, none of those guys will welcome the all star break in, I think, more than the pitching staff, but.

So a lot. Yeah, a lot of this. I am one who feels like batters don't suffer as much from going out and playing, but I don't know, maybe they get just ground down. I feel like it's easier to mess up your timing with a. As a hitter when you missed. Like, Polanco looked terrible when he came back that first game where he, like, struck out three times. No timing. Like so.

John Trupen
But maybe, by the way, a helpful. A helpful framework for when somebody comes into Tacoma and hits home run, multiple home runs in a single game of. Well, is this, is this a useful frame of reference?

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
Or an offensive performer?

Jenna
No.

John Trupen
Or arguably also is an incredible framework for how good, even struggling, established big leaguers.

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
Quick story is the other way.

Spencer
Quick story. I have a friend who's never been a fan of baseball, doesn't like professional sports. Never in his life. He's 34 years old. He went to a Tacoma Rainier scheme last week and saw Polanco hit a home run. I got a text message.

So Polanco, he's pretty good, huh?

John Trupen
It is so amazing.

And yeah.

Yeah, that dude is an all star.

Jenna
All of this made me check in. I was like, oh, yeah, the Rainers are playing right now. How's it going? They're up eleven. Nothing on sugar land.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
Take that.

Spencer
I had a good laugh. Let's just say that Tyler Locklear has.

Jenna
Three hits, including a home run.

John Trupen
The best thing that Tyler Locklear could do because, Kate, you mentioned that, and I did want to touch on it.

I think the best thing Tyler Locklear could do is go to that person who taught Julio how to run and see if there's any juice to be squeezed.

Because if his running form could improve or just watch Luke Rayleigh and see if, like, you know, he can he take any beautiful mind, a beautiful mind, Luke Rayleigh form into him.

Spencer
I don't run forming.

Jenna
I think Locklear is solid. I don't understand why all these people think, oh, yeah, like he is.

Like he's a wide receiver, he's big, but he is nothing unathletic. Like.

John Trupen
No, no, no. I completely agree. The issue is tie France is, like we said, doing fine, or at least he's not the biggest issue.

So if you've got Garver, who is also been, you know, performing better of late, and he's backup catcher, dh most of the time, Locklear the only, the only other spot is out there where they're trying to teach Ryan Bliss to roam.

Jenna
Yep.

John Trupen
So I don't think there's a realistic version of Tyler Locklear in the outfield because he is athletic for a first baseman and truly.

But it's not gonna. It's not gonna work if he runs at the speed that he runs at late career. Jay Bruce got there because Jay Bruce Hithenne for a decade. Really, really well, major leagues. So they let him stay out there. But you also can't do that if you have also have Dominic Canzone on the other side.

Spencer
Do we need to have a hard conversation about why we're talking about this? Because this is a conversation for a very specific reason. Why is that?

John Trupen
It is because my favorite player is, I think is probably not long for this roster.

I don't think Mitch Hanniger has enough going right now to justify the Mariners sticking with him.

They love his attitude. They love what he is capable of, or at least has been capable of.

But I just fundamentally don't think his performance is certainly, his performance doesn't justify a roster spot at this point. He's been at least by, I think by f four, their worst player, which is a product of how much they've played him. But he does not run well. He does not cover the outfield well. His arm is still good, but he just is not hitting enough to justify it. And he's not even hitting enough to justify a platoon role. He looks pretty much like he did last year, and the hope was, and I think it was a justifiable enough one that full health coming into the year.

There was enough for him to expand upon what he did last year, and I just don't think it's there.

Jenna
Yep. I'm afraid that. And, you know, maybe if you get him off his feet a little bit, he improves. But the problem is that they are the. For a team that wanted to be younger and more athletic, they are crowded.

Yeah, exactly. They did none of these things, like.

Spencer
Got a lot of rough hamstrings for a young.

John Trupen
It's weird when you trade away your young position, your young, fast position players that your roster doesn't get younger and faster.

Jenna
They get when you kill Nick. Gold star for this. It is. Yeah. So they've got, like, a backlog of guys at that position, which is blocking guys. I'd like to see, like Locklear.

And eventually, we're gonna have to have a Spencer Packard conversation, too. I think if he keeps hitting like he does, I. I mean, the man, if he wants.

John Trupen
You know how to cheer me up after talking about my.

Jenna
I know. Your second most beautiful boy. The.

I don't know how to describe Ruddy. Is he ruddy? I feel like Spencer Packard is ruddy.

John Trupen
He's certainly ruddy. Cubic is one of dusty.

Jenna
Very cubic.

He looks like a weeble wobble figurine. Like, just kind of cylindrical with a little, like, head on top.

John Trupen
Yeah, exactly.

Jenna
He's a. My people, you know. Fisher Price.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
I want to put him in my dollhouse.

John Trupen
R I p. Eric Felia. Welcome back. Eric Felia.

Jenna
Yeah, exactly. And you know how much I love Derek Felia. Still kicking around in one of the foreign lanes. I believe.

Spencer
Right now he is exploring.

John Trupen
The upper boundaries of how good you can hit without hitting a home run in the PCL. It is genuinely not possible.

Spencer
Anyway, Alex Jackson is still playing. We never gave up on the.

Jenna
Anybody can Tyler Locklear catch also, John, I will cheer you up with this bit of news. The Everett aqua sacks are up one nothing on Spokane with your boy Michael Arroyo. Michael Arroyo hitting a home run.

Spencer
That's what we also traded, right?

John Trupen
No.

Jenna
First base. No. I mean, I would be very mad if they trade from this core, because this team is more than one or two good pieces away. They are.

They need their players who are on the roster and who are signed to long term dealers like Julio to start playing up to the level that you expect from them. They need to make some decisions and stop platooning the whole wide world. I love being. I love having depth. I agree with having depth. I think that you can over depth yourself.

Like, depth is great if you have a Dylan Moore who is spelling Josh Rojas on days where there's a lefty on the mound, who is spelling Luke Rayleigh when there's a lefty on the mound who is filling in at second, filling in at shortstop. If anything happens to JP or he needs a day off, like that's great when you have seven Dylan Moores and no one's getting consistent playing time because you have gotten half a player.

It just doesn't.

You are more than one very solid piece away. And honestly, that solid piece was something you should have added in the off season and instead went for retreads and older players that made your roster less athletic and who are not performing the way they you hope they would. Luis a. Reas is in Tacoma. Jorge Polanco has been disappointing. Like, I don't know that I even trust them to make a good deadline move because they have brought in consistently. Now, I think players who have not been great additions. Jesse Winker.

Oh, the Wong brothers. I mean, it was both of them, but God bless Colton Wong. I really wanted to like him. He was unwatchable. Polanco should have been a significant upgrade from that. I think we're all surprised. I think even the team is surprised at how much Jorge Polanco's play has not resembled who he was. I wonder if the twins knew that and that was why he was available at the price he was at. I don't know, but I question what is even out there and I, I will prospect hug because I right now have more faith in what they're bringing up through the system.

I I would like to see Cole Young. Let's, let's, let's roll out Cole Young. Let's see what we've got. I like him as a trade piece. I don't know that I love what he would bring in return.

John Trupen
McDougal bats McDougal bats is a bend, Oregon based baseball and softball bats company. Family owned. They are big Mariners fans and they build baseball bats and softball bats that are fantastic to use for your own league. If you have kids that are getting into their season now, I think we're in at this point, you know, we are approaching summer ball. I know at least in the Seattle area we're, we're sort of in the midst of the high school seasons and middle school seasons, but if you have woodbat leagues, those typically get started around Memorial Day, at least for baseball, I think it is very worthwhile. One of the big perks on a McDoodle bat is that they have a longer sweet spots and they are designed to last for really as long as you keep swinging that bat. Though they are not a composite bat, they essentially are incredibly sturdy. They are not liable to break on you. I actually have now a MacDougall bat that I am excited to be cracking open this coming weekend, getting into games. So I am. I'm excited to track my stuff here. If you go to McDougall bats, that's MacDougall bats.com and order a bat, if you use the discount code, go Ms. That's goms, you will get $15 off your order and we will be very pleased. We'll get a little extra bonus from that as well. So go check them out.

Spencer
Kate, I have never loved a monologue for you. More on this podcast. I want you to know.

Just amazing. Ten out of ten, no notes. John, do you have any notes? Because I don't. I feel like that was perfect.

John Trupen
I. I think it is a very accurate and reasonable assessment, but I do disagree with it.

Jenna
Please.

John Trupen
I do think they should trade. I do think they should be extremely aggressive.

I think that I, you know, I know they're not going to trade Michael Arroyo. They might trade Michael Arroyo. I won't. Personally don't want them to because I really like him. But this roster, as constructed for all its foibles, is underperforming its way into still being the team in the first place.

It is not even about the team that they have been. It is about the circumstances that you have in front of you, which are better than any other point in time, in the depot era, in the Zarenza care, in the bayesian era.

Spencer
And even if you believe in them, they are a bottom ten offense.

Definitely. Like, there's no question about that now. They are like, this is who have to get better. Right.

John Trupen
They have to get better. There is genuinely an opportunity.

Jenna
What is the impact piece? What is going to, what is going to transform this offense?

What. Who do you have faith in coming in? And how many pieces do you think it will take in them coming in mid season and writing this ship? I just don't see it.

John Trupen
I think there is a very good case for them to add two starting position players.

Spencer
Yes.

John Trupen
And I think if one of those is a very high level player and the other is a solid player, I'm thinking, you know, like a star level player and a decent, or at least like an. At least an average regular, then I think they are in great shape.

Jenna
Who is the star level player?

John Trupen
To me, I think it remains Luis Robert.

I think that is easily the move that the Mariners should be the most focused on.

Spencer
Luis Robert.

John Trupen
No, it's not. It's not Robert. It's Robber. No, it's Rover.

Spencer
100% sure.

Because we have. We have received numerous.

John Trupen
Right. Which is why it is. It is Robert. And it is like. It is. It is not Robert. But it is not Robert. It's not Robert is what the point is. It's not like a french sound Robert.

It's also not Lubob, which was his nickname anyway.

He is to me, the primary target.

And I understand, you know, the White Sox are going to request a lot.

I understand that there's some measure of. Well, is it's putting two center fielders in. In one spots.

Listen, he is young enough to have a ton of time on the roster. He is good enough that he and was. There is a reason this was the number one prospect in baseball.

This was the same type and level of prospect as Julio. This was a comparable prospect to Julio Acuna, many of the top, top players, because he has extraordinary power, he has extraordinary speed and range defensively, and he has performed at a very high level in the major leagues for three straight years.

The challenge obviously is, yes, he has been hurt also. His rookie year was the COVID year, and even then he was a good rookie.

The challenge has been that he's been getting hurt, but I think it is still worth it because you get years and years of this player and any other option out there does not move the needle. And to your point, Kate, they should have done this work in the offseason, but they were lazy and cheap. They did not make the. They did not put in the effort. They. They put in a lot of effort to cut costs and to get rid of other players.

Jenna
I strongly agree with lazy. I do not think they were lazy in any way, shape or form. I think what they were was. I agree with you about cheap, and I think that they had a different set of priorities than fans had, and cost control was chief among that.

John Trupen
They did nothing.

Jenna
They did not prioritize adding a big impact bat the way that fans wanted them to. I don't.

I really push back against the idea of laziness, though.

John Trupen
I think it is fundamentally a very lazy behavior to choose the easiest possible goal instead of choosing more challenging goals that are the core point of your existence as an entity. Right. Choosing cost cutting is the easiest thing to do. They chose the easiest goal, and then they said, we made a bunch of moves. Look at us.

Look how great a job we did and good on them for making a lot of moves to change the roster around towards that goal.

Their stated goals were cutting down on strikeouts and getting younger and more athletic. They failed at all of those.

Spencer
Yeah.

John Trupen
To the, you know, that was, that was the goal of cutting, cutting costs. So I think if we're thinking they're making all these bad acquisitions, and again, I'm not. I'm not even going to say bad acquisitions. Right. I liked the winker acquisition. I liked the Polanco acquisition. But if we are, I didn't like the Wong acquisition by the time they made it. But Colton Wong is a player I wanted them to go for, for on multiple occasions. So I won't even think with a.

Jenna
Rias, like, we did not like, I.

John Trupen
I did not like that at the start, but not at the time.

Jenna
Not at the time. But we liked a Rias years ago for when he was good, when he was a padre. I was like, I want someone like that who is a contact hitter who will balance out some of the swing and miss on this team.

John Trupen
Yes.

Spencer
And whether or not he worked out right now, this year, we wanted them to make decisions like this. Right? Like, we wanted them to make decisions that seemingly would work out a move or two ahead of time. Right. It didn't happen this year, and that definitely deserves, like, a major mark against them because they screwed it up two years in a row from where I'm standing. But we also, it's hard to separate how they actually performed from how we felt about them preseason because I like the plan going in. I hate the results coming out. That's tough to, that's tough to slice.

John Trupen
And that is why I'm talking about the lack of imagination or sort of courage in their goal setting.

Their goals were incredibly low, and so they stepped over. They stepped over the bar that they lay on the ground for themselves and said, look at. Look at the great work we've done.

You know, they maybe walked in a figure eight pattern to get to the bar and stepped over it. But to me, that's, that is their lack, that is an internal issue. And I'm, I have. I can't enumerate how many times I've said that this is an ownership issue more than a front office issue, but that's the, that's why we are here with a team that is getting the gift of a lifetime in Houston and Texas collapsing, utterly falling on their faces into piles of every single mammalian poop imaginable and undiscovered species. Poop is greeting them and pinked species.

Jenna
Dinosaur poop.

John Trupen
Exactly. Exactly.

Jenna
Pairing dinosaur poop.

John Trupen
Exactly. And they are having so many of these players that they've done a fabulous job developing this entire rotation and whatnot. They, they have done such a great job with it, and they are, they have, they have not done anything. So, yes, they should go trade for Luis Robert because if, much like trading for Luis Castillo, you have to utilize your team in the moments where you actually have a window.

And I don't think their window, so to speak, is shutting after this year, but it's very likely Texas is better next year simply by the nature of more health and fewer of their pitchers completely fall apart.

Houston could be better, could be worse.

They have another year of distance away from their, you know, little, you know, flick on the wrist of punishment for cheating their way to a World Series.

But they're going to have more in their system, and their system has some, some promising players in it. So you're, you're going to have.

It is unlikely to me that the Ross. That the. That the entire division is as open as it is right now, and if you're not going to go out and sign star level players and free agency, you have to trade for them.

This is the best opportunity that is available right now to trade for a star level player who will help them next year and the year after and the year after and the year after. The contract goes through 2027 with club options, which is to say you're trading for a 26 year old and getting all of their prime years, essentially.

Maybe it doesn't work, but the amount of money that you'd have to pay him is not so onerous that it would debilitate them from doing other things this winter.

Jenna
If you, although the amount of money that you've paid is not, the real cost is the prospect capital. So you have largely decimated your farm, which the Mariners can afford more than other teams, but this would take a significant piece, a significant piece out of, like, way more than the cost for Castillo.

More. They're looking for, supposedly more than what Juan Soto cost in prospects.

John Trupen
Yeah, I think that that is lovely for them, and I think everyone is across the sport pretty comfortable saying they're not going to get that, but the Mariners can.

Jenna
And why bother trading him? Why would they trade him in the first place, then?

John Trupen
Because they're so far away from a quality roster that even less than a Juan Soto level deal, which, again, I would say certainly was good, but it was three top 100 prospects and a very troubled but decent Mackenzie Gore and I think that's a huge package of prospects. The Mariners have six or seven top 100 prospects, so yes, that would be a lot. It's also the alternative outcome. The alternative ideal outcome is all those prospects come up to the major leagues, in which case Mariners don't have room to play.

And if the Mariners have a roster that is so good that ideally they are continuing to have a roster good enough to merit having Coolio and Cal and this entire rotation kept together, then they're not going to have room for all of Cole Young and Colt Emerson and Felnine, Celeste and Michael Orion and Ty Pete.

It's just, that's not how it works. Right. Some of those players are just not actually going to be as good as they are. But right now people think they're pretty damn good.

Some of them are going to get better, some are going to get worse. Right. Noel D. Marte didn't really get better or worse. He kind of stayed the same, and now he's suspended. Evan Arroyo had a good year, had a bad year.

Almost all of the pitchers the Mariners traded in this most recent batch, right, Williamson.

Right, Williamson has been pretty inconsistent. Connor Phillips, injured. Inconsistent. Yep. Exactly. Injured.

Levi stout.

Bad enough the Mariners got him back for free and gave him away again.

There's just.

Yeah, I just fundamentally think this is the time to go in because they won't do it in the winter.

Jenna
Yeah. They've showed us that that's not where they make moves.

I wish those moves cost money.

John Trupen
Exactly. So if they had shown any sort of courage to do this work ahead of time and forethought to do this work ahead of time, I would be with you, Kate. I would say, hold on, these guys, let them keep working up because you have a good rush, you know, not, not stand completely pat, make some improvements, but, you know, next winter you can go get somebody. I haven't looked at the class that much, but that's, that's why I am so adamant that the situation demands them doing it now and that it will improve them for the next several years. Where also if you have Luis, if you have rubber and Julio, assuming Julio gets it back on track, you don't really need, you only need one more outfielder for the next five years. You know, you suddenly don't have a huge prospect need at an entire, at two thirds of your outfield.

Jenna
Put class a out there and you have 3000% coverage of your outfield.

John Trupen
Yeah, exactly.

Jenna
A ball would never drop.

John Trupen
Right. Right. That's the trade off for. Yes, prospect cost, but like that, that, to me, is why it's worth it, is. You can, if you're good, you're winning games while you get the next chance to restock that farm.

Jenna
Yeah. I mean, and they've proven that they can do a lot with international signings. They're not afraid to spend money internationally. And that has been a huge difference maker. And they've spent smartly and they've gotten a lot out of guys. They've turned up gems like Michael Arroyo that I don't think other teams were in hot pursuit of.

They've smartly invested and bid for guys who have turned out to be really good. I'm not sure on Celestin yet, because I haven't seen him a lot, but I like everything I have seen. Lazaro. Obviously, we'll find out. I love, and I hate the, the cost for Rovere is almost definitely one Lazaro, which I, is maybe why I hate this idea to begin with.

John Trupen
It would be interesting. But they, but they have other, other people. I do think they could.

I do think they could have a package where it was several of, you know, several of these folks. I don't. I am. I do agree one, either Emerson or Laz could be big. Yes.

Spencer
Can I. Can I pitch you here? Here's my deal.

Like, if I'm the Mariners, this is the deal I'm pitching. Anybody else? Harry Ford, Michael Morales, Michael Arroyo, and then Johnny Formello. Those four. I'm pitching those four as a deal. It's steep.

That's a good deal. It's steep. It's. But here's why that's a good deal. It's far away. None of that is getting realized tomorrow. None of this is getting realized next year or the year after. That is a three year plan, at minimum, to realize the value of that trade.

I do that. I understand other people don't. I understand other people might hear that and cringe and want somebody else. I keep Emerson, I keep Cole young, I keep Montez. I make that deal. Do you guys make that deal?

It's hard.

John Trupen
I make that deal in a heartbeat. I think it takes more than that. Yeah, I. I make that ill in a heartbeat.

Spencer
You know, here's the key thing. I agree it takes more than that, but I think that is the Mariners offer. And if they say no, say no. That's, that's where you draw the line, in my opinion, because that is a good deal. Is it a great deal? Is it a blown away offer, as is often the case, like, you know, when people talk about we need to be blown away to make this trade. No, it isn't. It's a good deal. Do you make a good deal for that?

John Trupen
Yeah, I mean, I just don't think the White Sox do.

Jenna
The White Sox don't do that. There's no way the White Sox.

I. And I really do think that they hold out for. We want your cuban superstar to replace the one that we are giving you. It just feels like it makes sense.

Spencer
Sense, but it's totally fair.

Jenna
I just feel like all of this. So I agree with you, John. I think Robert is the only player out there who is, like, truly a needle mover. And I just. It feels very unmarried. I agree with you. They should do that.

I can agree with you. I mean, I don't think I actually agree. I'm trying to discern between, like, what I think they actually should do and what I think they will do, because it's. It's just not a very mariners y move to do that. The splash deal for Castillo, I feel like that is. And maybe they go out even further. Maybe they go out further on a limb, and they do make this kind of splashy deal. It just doesn't feel like them.

They.

I think, to their detriment a lot of times, like, to be the smartest guys in the room. Don't want to pay the premium, want to find an alternate route to the top, and they'll be like, oh, everybody else is chasing Rover. Like, we're going to chase, I don't know, some player who would not have even appeared on my radar, the Dominic canzone. Like, that's who they target. They look for players who they feel are being. And while I feel like that works a lot with their pitching, because of the pitching development they have, it just doesn't work with position players. Like, players don't come to T Mobile park and become better hitters. They come to T Mobile park and they get worse.

And that's why I don't think. And they don't like T Mobile park. So it would have to be someone who has some kind of extensive, like, it would have to be somebody who's young and has a long contract ahead of them.

Spencer
Luis Renjivo.

Jenna
Oh, God.

I mean, that's a very popular.

And, you know, if he's on the Mariners, he can't kill the Mariners. So that that part is.

But I feel like his soul power comes from just being driven by pure hatred against Jerry, and that's why he's good against the Mariners. And, like, really no one else like, superstar.

Spencer
They're never going to trade with us. The Angels are never going to trade at the Mariners. Make. Make no mistake, not going to happen.

Jenna
Yeah, it sucks that two of the teams that are the easiest trade targets are like, both within our own division. I would love to have Brent Rucker. I would love Brent Rooker.

Plug Brent Rooker in for Mitchenegger.

I love his personality. I love his hit. I love his game. Like, I.

That's my.

To me, Rooker moves the needle not as significantly as other acquisitions, but enough to where I would feel comfortable making what would be a very expensive in division trade.

That's my wish list. But again, just, I feel that what they do is they trade for bullpen help. They get like a moderate bet. I've heard it suggested that they would go get Tyler O'Neill. I don't think that is going to happen.

But I could see something that's an acquisition kind of like that. Maybe Rooker would be a possibility, something in that tier.

Spencer
John, what did we postulate before the podcast? It was Josh Lowe.

Jenna
Josh Lowe. I could see that he is boring. So. Yeah, that feels right.

Spencer
Yeah. Perfect.

John Trupen
He is boring, but he's. I actually. I disagree fundamentally. I don't think he's boring. I think he plays for the Rivers and that's not the same.

Jenna
Okay, interesting.

Spencer
He's perfect in the way we. He. We need that. We need that kind of boring.

That's okay.

John Trupen
He is. He is the second lo w e player on his team.

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
Has the less. He has the more common pronunciation of it, which again, is.

These are, you know, sleepier elements of an individual.

Jenna
Yes. And the third, there are three lows running around in baseball.

John Trupen
Nathaniel Lowe Annoy as well, who also was a Ray, and until Tampa, the.

Jenna
Rays just like to have all the lows. They cornered the market on that.

John Trupen
But Josh Lowe is very. Luke is.

Evan and I were talking about this before the. But I think he is.

Luke Rayleigh and Jared Kelnick sort of combined in that he was this very, very prestigious prospect, not quite to the degree that Kelnick ultimately was, but he was 13th overall pick in 2016. He has had a long, kind of longer than expected entry point into playing in the majors, despite the fact that he has pretty much just always obliterated the miners. At like, at no point has he been. He was. He had like a little stretch, but like high minors, he has been massively a massive performer.

He runs well. He hits well, looks kind of wild because he's so big. He's six four and he has tons of power, kind of swings and misses, but, like, does everything pretty well. And he's only 26. I think he's.

Spencer
The Mariners love nothing more than a misfit for a position like.

John Trupen
Right.

Spencer
We. We love this.

Jenna
That feels like a very mariner move. They can have Dominic Kenzone in exchange.

John Trupen
It would be.

Spencer
Do they want him?

John Trupen
He's. He. They're. They're very much, I think, on par thus far this year. But low, low runs better in this been. You know, he's been out for a little bit, so if they want someone who will be under cost control for a while.

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
And yes, will still cost quite a bit because he's 26 and has, I think, only one year of service time still or one year service time so far. So he would be a free agent only after 2028. I don't think it would transfer Rayleigh back, but I. But I do think.

I do think that that is. That is somewhere that they could be very involved.

Jenna
Zachary. No. Rayleigh has cemented himself on this roster by his friendship with Cal Rawley. Honestly, Rayleigh's bat could just disintegrate tomorrow and they would still keep him around, I think, because he and Cal. He makes Cal happy and they're. So.

Spencer
Is that a good thing? There are still good about that.

Jenna
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, their friendship is adorable, but there are so few things that they can do for Cal Rawley, like, with him under cost control and also a Boris client.

The least thing they can do is keep his little buddy around.

Spencer
I'm asking a lot. I understand that.

Jenna
Yeah. I. I like, I like these. I feel like these kinds of trades that do not involve dipping too heavily into their prospect capital are more likely.

John Trupen
Likely. For sure.

It's about whether it's worth.

Jenna
Whether it's worth. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

John Trupen
Right. Because these more and low wouldn't even be a tepid move. Low is a pretty solid level of acquisition.

Spencer
I think Roe's a very real acquisition, no mistake.

John Trupen
It's more.

I think Rooker would be a great second acquisition if you acquired another player to fill in in the infield, which I think is sort of trickier because there isn't really that that player out there. It's honestly, it's Brandon Lau and not that much else, which again, is.

That's sort of what's tricky here is trading for Brandon Laho has a lot of overlap with Jorge Polanco of a player who's in his age, 30 season, who's performing better than Polanco, certainly, but has been injured a lot.

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
And has not matched his performance from earlier in his career.

Jenna
Right. And specifically recently injured this year, which really gives me some hesitation.

John Trupen
Yeah. Each of the last three years he has had time out and this year is definitely missed a significant chunk. So, yeah, I think that they're, my wish list is a star, a rooker level secondary player and one bullpen arm that is not, not really a high leverage guy, but a step down, just, just another decent arm who's, who's got a few years under control.

Spencer
For the record, we agree they need another bullpen arm that is not Greg Santos or Logan Evans because they have two guys who are apparently coming eventually in the second half. I'm not going to put a date on when because I don't think they know, but we have two guys coming in the bullpen over the next month, six weeks, whatever.

But they do need to get somebody else. Like, I think that's clear. They need somebody else in the bullpen who is not Mike Bauman, who is not Mike.

Jenna
I mean, again, I feel like there's some recency bias. Like he just, he, he had to pitch three days in a row. He's very high risk, high reward. I do hope they are able to help reign in his command because he's not someone that we should be seeing as much as we are. But this is sort of like where things are right now.

John Trupen
Feels to me like Trent Thornton of last year where it was like Thornton came in, had kind of shaky splits, but was getting good outcomes and this year is performing better and getting good outcomes.

And I think their stuff is similarly like it's, it's, you can see it, but it's, it's not quite there. And now Bauman is, you know, and Thor, rather, now Thornton is there, but Bauman is not.

Spencer
He's a coin flip if we're in that situation.

It's a coin flip. If we win, great. But if we don't, like. Bauman was bitching. What do you want?

John Trupen
It really was something. I know we talked about Castillo and we're close to rapping, but that outing was extraordinarily brutal. Just immediate worst case scenario.

Jenna
I mean, Salcedo's two base air pickoff error on a pitch he didn't have to throw. I think that's what made me the maddest is just made that run himself, which I know Taylor Washington definitely very frustrated with it, too. And, you know, it's, it's a good thing and a bad thing that he takes it all. So it means so much to him, which is something I worry about. But it's and certainly not entirely his fault. Like of the wheel of blame. The pie chart of blame.

No, but I mean, as I'm speaking more generally, I guess the pie chart of lame goes for the road trip woes. Like the bullpen gets a smaller piece of that pie, right? Like the starters were ineffective. The offense gets the big. You cannot see at home because I'm gesturing with my hands, but the offense gets the largest Pac man slice of that big.

Spencer
Nobody gets.

Nobody gets to hold the wind from this road trip. Nobody known people get to hold different size l's, but nobody gets to hold, you know.

Jenna
You know who does get to hold the w is Cal Rawley, because they would be so hosed without Cal Rawley.

Spencer
The one person who apparently can square a fastball on this team.

Jenna
Specifically that game that they lost, that I recapped where it was just Raleigh and Garver hitting home runs. I think that was the opening against the Rays, but they lost like just, that was all the offense. That was it. And I've been so pleased with Mitch Garver turning it around. And it's been great to watch him.

He was so frustrated early in the season with his lack of performance. And it's, it's just gotten so much nicer to see him like to have him come up and he is one person in the lineup that I'm like, well, this could be something good. And that's just not a sense that one gets enough with this offense so that those two, the catching tandem, can share, can share a w between them.

Spencer
I would just like to say, as much as I love our catching tandem, and I do, I do, make no mistake. I love Cal Rawley, love ca rally. I really do.

Our catchers being our best offensive players.

Jenna
Oh yeah.

Spencer
Not the best look. Not the best look for us as an organization.

Jenna
Yeah. Your casters should probably not be your best hitters unless you are the Baltimore Orioles.

Spencer
Like.

And even then, maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah, maybe Gunnery Henderson is better than.

Jenna
So this home stand has the potential to be pretty brutal.

The bonuses are, it's long and there are a lot of off days, and they're playing at home.

The negatives are they're playing the twins, who are, have been quite good lately. They've got Royce Lewis back and he's been tearing it up.

The Orioles, who are monsters, and then who's the third team that comes in? Do you remember John off the Toronto. Toronto.

John Trupen
Right.

Jenna
Which will be interesting, which we'll bring with it. If Toronto not an actually good team, it will bring down all the Blue Jays fans. So it'll be like, unfriendly. I'll be really interested to see how that shakes out. Actually, with blue, Blue Jays being bad and the Mariners being good, I'd be.

Spencer
Okay with upsetting them. Like, I could live with that.

Jenna
We'll see how it goes. But this is a potentially following up a tough road trip. This is a tough home stand. Definitely tougher than sort of what turned out to be kind of a cakewalk between the White Sox and Texas.

So I'll be really interested to see how they perform.

I'm hoping that they'll be able to shake off whatever happened on this road trip. But I will say I'm, I have concerns. I am. I'm nervous about this road trip. I'm nervous about when we sit down on this podcast again to discuss the homestand, what we'll be talking about.

Gloom and doom.

Spencer
Aren't we all?

Jenna
That's my brand, Don. Do you want to, like, polish it off with something optimistic before we wrap?

I give the people a little hope in their hearts.

John Trupen
Yeah, I do.

Jenna
I don't like all the pauses, all the verbal pauses.

Spencer
Ryan Bliss is okay. That's your optimism.

John Trupen
That is good.

No, I was making sure I had a good sense of who the pitchers were, that they were lined up against the mariners for this homestand.

Spencer
Because the healthy ones, specifically pitchers, right?

John Trupen
Yes, yes. Because it's. It will be corbin burns appearance. Yikes.

But what I think this is, is twofold. One, it is an opportunity for the Mariners to reestablish themselves against a yemenite, very good series of quality teams that really, an above 500 performance in this home stand would set them up spectacularly for the rest of the year because this is about as hard as it gets.

Like, there's just not, as I, as I gander the rest of the season.

Spencer
They fucked up the easy part of the schedule.

No mistake. No, they needed to be Miami and Tampa, because now they go face Cleveland and Minnesota. And Minnesota. And Cleveland are good.

Jenna
This is hard.

John Trupen
Minnesota, Baltimore, Baltimore and Toronto.

Spencer
Which is worse, but bad.

John Trupen
No, but the.

If the rest of this season, they do not have three series in a row against teams with winning records right now.

Sure, but, but, but this particular road trip notwithstanding. No, I. But I'm just saying, like, this has been a shit road trip, and the reason they are well above 500 and in first place is that they have ultimately been very good against bad teams. They have done a very good job of handling, or rather, sorry, against. Yes, they have done a very good job. They're 31 and 16 against teams that are under 500 this year.

Jenna
Yeah, no, you're right. They have. They have mostly done what they needed to do.

John Trupen
This was really frustrating.

Jenna
Recency bias. Get to me, because they had an opportunity. And meanwhile, the Astros are getting to beat up on the corpse of the Rockies this series.

John Trupen
But the rest of this year, the mariners get easier options. This is the last genuinely very hard stretch, teams wise, at least. Travel, whatever.

This is the final stretch towards the summit. Everything else after here, there are bumps, but it is on a down a downward slope.

Jenna
We've dragged our little sleds to the top of the hill.

John Trupen
Yes. This is the part where they need to find a little more juice and sprint.

Jenna
Yeah.

John Trupen
And if they can get to that top, they can put their sled down and kind of slide at least. I know, I know. That's not how it works, right? It's not. You just get to, well, it's not like, oh, you just get to go beat these teams. But it is simply just fundamentally, they play worse teams the rest of the way.

Jenna
Oh, I thought you meant that you were getting the sliding metaphor wrong, which.

John Trupen
Oh, no, that's perfect. No notes. No notes for myself.

Spencer
My note is they don't need to be that much better. They need to be a little bit better. Like, yeah, they don't need to be 750 win percentage better. They need to be 610 win percentage better. They're capable of that. It may seem like a lot right now when we seen how they played against Miami and Tampa Bay, which admittedly was embarrassing, and I'm not gonna talk about it more than that, but, hey, they're in it.

Jenna
They're in it.

Spencer
I don't feel stressed. I don't like it. Don't.

John Trupen
I want.

Spencer
We started, we started the podcast out this.

I am not concerned. I'm not concerned. Now I will be concerned. Matthew Roberson, a smart man, a smarter man than I, a wiser man than I once said, you don't know what's going on until you are past September 30. Are we past September 30, guys? Are we past labor day?

Jenna
No, I think that, you know. No, I mean, I know I don't like the way that everyone was like, oh, when we're in Cleveland, we need, need to be looking ahead towards, like, tiebreakers and stuff. That, that felt very cart before the horse. That felt very carted by the horse. To me, it was a lie. But I I do think, like, you need to have us a sense of where things are overall and just not go to sleep on this specifically, because I'm very worried about the Astros nipping at our heels, and they have a real opportunity.

They've certainly been taking care of business against Colorado. They walloped them today. So I, I need to see the mariners doing that as well, which means, more often than not, the rangers. I mean, they. What? They got swept by the Rockies like boof.

John Trupen
Yeah.

Jenna
That's what makes you got to take care of your business against teams that are worse than you. And they did not do this that on this road trip, and now they have a tougher, they have to fight a little harder to stay at arm's lengthen from the rest of the division, which they could have really put themselves in a nicer place. So that's, that's tough. But I like what you said, john, about, like, this is it, and then things ease up. They ease up with the all star break, too. I do think this is a tired team, and we'll hopefully, you know, just having some time away will help guys even just mentally reset to just, just having an off day, because what is worse than, like, you're struggling and you have to go to the park every single day, and you have to go out there and hit and hit badly every single day like that.

Spencer
You suck anyways because you're the Mariners, like, 13th position player. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Jenna
It's, it's.

It's going to be good for everyone to get a breath, I think so. Better, better times ahead. But I do think it's a, it's important that they play reasonably well on this homestand, and I think it's important as far as, like, sustaining fan interest, too, because this is the time of year people start going out of town. They get distracted by Seahawks minicamp. They start doing other things, like, to really compel and continue to draw these good crowds. The crowds have been excellent, and every player, and Scott has how much of a factor the crowd has been in helping them kind of play to this level and keep that energy going and help them pull out some of these victories that, like, maybe they probably shouldn't have won, but they've got to sustain that in order to keep that interest. So we'll see how. We'll see how things go, and we will be here to talk about it.

Spencer
Guys, don't give up. This was a bad week, but, like, the Mariners are still really good. We understand that. Right. Like, collectively, we understand the mariners are still really good. They're in first place. There are several. They're way up. Like, I just, I don't, I don't share in the despair because I've lived it and this is not it. They're okay. I mean, they're, they're gonna come back next week and play better.

Jenna
Their lead of six or eight or whatever it was is down to four and a half over Houston.

Spencer
Whatever.

Jenna
This is starting to sink back a little. I think that is real cause for concern.

Spencer
Like, none of that counts until we are in September. None of it. I don't like, I understand. I get 100%. I get it. But. And it's okay to disagree with me.

Jenna
Houston has won their last seven games. They're on a seven game winning streak.

Spencer
Like, no, I don't really care about the division lead until there are fewer games than, there are games than division lead. And that's not like a complicated opinion. That's like, we can't win until we can win. Right? It's good. It's going to be rough until the final week, you guys. It's going to suck. We're going to lose and we're going to win and it's going to be on the edge of a way that they have played.

Jenna
They have been absolutely committed to, they must have some kind of backdoor dealings with like a blood pressure medication company because it has absolutely been.

They cannot make even what seems like it should be an easy win. Like, even the White Sox series, that.

Spencer
Saturday game was partnered with a Zen pick. Is that what you're saying?

Jenna
That Saturday game was so nice because that's the first easy win I can remember in a long time. By the way, if you came out to our lookout landing watch party, thank you so much for doing that. It was really fun. We gave away a ton of stuff. We'll do another one in July. Watch the site. We're going to aim for like once a month on the road trip. So probably we'll do like, I think after the all star break. Let me look at the schedule here. But yeah, keep on the watch for when we announce that I'm Beth. I'm betting we'll do that last week of July, like the White sox game. There's a 415 on Saturday. I think we'll probably aim for that one on the 27th. So come out, watch a game with us, chat it up. It's always fun to hang out and meet other readers or listeners or whoever you might be. But thanks to those of you come who came.

If you're shy, I promise we're all. It's very chill like. Do not be afraid. We are all just as nerdy and self conscious and awkward as you are. So come on out. That's my pitch. All right, John, take us home.

John Trupen
Thank you to all of y'all for listening. Thank you to McDougall bats.

Use that link in the description.

Thank you to every single one of you for tuning in. Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Evan.

And until next time, bye.

Much Ado About Bryan Woo - Is The Rotation Set For October? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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1: Introduction

2: Analyzing the Road Trip

3: Bryan Woo's Condition

4: Julio Rodriguez's Struggles

5: Outlook for the Postseason

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