Change Is In The Air - Are The Mariners Still Buyers? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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Jon Truepen
Hello and welcome. Thank you for meeting at the Mitt. My name is Jon Truepen.

I am thrilled to be coming to you in the midst of the final week before the major league trade deadline.

We have all sorts of things to talk about in Seattle Mariners land, namely injuries, transactions, sad departures, and a whole mess of possibilities for ways that the Seattle Mariners could choose to go in the coming seven days.

To break this down, I have with me Evan James. Evan, how are you, my friend, on your opening up trade deadline week, the home stretch here?

Evan James
You know, I'm phenomenal, aside from, obviously, the situation with the Mariners, which is a little bit of a downer, and we will definitely get to that. But I want to. Before we get into the bad stuff, I'll just say life is otherwise good, and I'm happy to be here.

Jon Truepen
So, yeah, it is genuinely good to hear because it is challenging to have a Seattle Mariners podcast and have everything except for the Mariners be good.

But we. We make do with what we can. And speaking of making do with circumstances that add some extra layers of challenge, we have Zach Mason joining us from the east coast, and I believe from mid. Mid run or mid journey, at least.

Judy
Yeah, post run walking home.

If my audio is terrible, that's why. But the content had to happen today. You know, this is a moment where there are things to discuss. There's the Mariners putting the dead in deadline.

There is Evan James audio not sharing with the world why he's doing well. New chickens. Mazel tov, my man. That's wonderful.

Jon Truepen
Absolutely. Oh, what are their names?

I know that one of Leo and Tyler.

Evan James
I believe they are. One of them is poppy, and the other one hasn't been named yet because we're not sure it's a girl. We've talked about the chicken sex thing before. If it's not a girl, it's not going to stay, and we don't want to name any of them if we're going to give them away, because that's, you know, that's a whole thing. So just one of them is poppy so far.

Jon Truepen
Okay.

I love that. I'm thrilled for your ever growing coop over there.

Evan James
I do have a regular aviary, don't I?

Jon Truepen
You do, you do. You're laden with birds in a way that few among us can dream of being.

But the mariners could really use some folks who could fly around, check it off the ground. Yeah.

Evan James
The no fly zone is a fly zone, officially, these days.

Jon Truepen
Yes, it is. Unfortunately, the news of the day is the news.

The news thus far. The news is, you know, it's got a lot of code of star. It's got a lot of.

Judy
Many news.

Jon Truepen
Yes.

Evan James
Many new things.

Judy
Many news.

Jon Truepen
I.

Judy
Several olds as well, but some news.

Jon Truepen
Exactly. Um, what we are looking at at the moment is one of the lineups of all time for the Seattle Mariners today, and that is because Julio Rodriguez has been placed on the ten day injured list due to a high right ankle sprain.

Obviously not so shocking. If we had just heard this straight from the injury, it would have kind of been. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think, unfortunately, we had a little bit of a dalliance with hope that the. That he might be back sooner for the last day or so. But relatively unsurprisingly, his max effort play on Sunday did unfortunately end with him on the aisle.

Additionally, JP Crawford also placed on the injured list due to a hairline fracture, broken hand from a pitch by left, or an. I'm starter Tyler Anderson.

And it's a betrayal. It is a betrayal.

Evan James
Former mariner friends, what's up?

Judy
Things harder.

Jon Truepen
There's something that. There's something in that orange county water that just, uh, sort of turns you. Turns you.

Turns you sour. Uh, there's no two ways around it. Um, and, uh, to boot, we also have the official end of the Thai France era, as he's been designated for assignment, having cleared irrevocable waivers. One of the more. One of my favorites for just how dramatic it is as a term. Um, it is the end of the tie. France era.

The 2022 Mariners all Star, really a core player for the 2021 and 2022. Surprisingly competitive teams there obviously just simply no longer was able to perform at an acceptable level. But, you know, obviously sad that his time at Seattle has come to an end due to him no longer being able to play well.

So his. His departure as well.

Do you have.

Judy
It's odd, right? Like, last night's game once. Once JP was out, and Ty was on the bench, too, because he was, like, currently on waivers, he was like, technically allowed to play, but they weren't going to play him.

Jon Truepen
Right.

Judy
Julio was out, and I was just, like, thinking my way around the diamond, and it was like, there was Dylan Moore, there was Cal Rawley, and then there was a bunch of people who, you know, as recently as a year ago, were not even on the roster.

Jon Truepen
Oh, yeah.

Judy
It was sad. It felt like a real rooting for laundry sort of moment.

As invested as I've managed to get in, so many of those new guys, like, obviously, Luke Whaley, for example, has really worked his way into our hearts very quickly.

Classe, you know, we've sort of, like, been following his path through the minors. But it was.

It was kind of hard to watch, in addition to the fact that they were, like, you know, playing terribly, so it was just hard to watch on that front.

But it felt like a real moment of realization that, like, the thing that I had felt connected to was no longer in front.

The ship of Theseus is not the same ship, it turns out.

Jon Truepen
Yeah. The ship of Theseus has definitely. It's got a lot of rotting pieces of wood right now. And I don't honestly know. I mean, this. Today's lineup is it. It hilariously does feature, I believe, the longest tenured mariner in Dylan Moore. But, you know, this is.

Moore and Cal Rawley are the only people, at least the only position players in it who have been on the major league roster for more than a year and a half and who feasibly.

Evan James
Might be on it next year at this rate.

Jon Truepen
Yeah. You know, I mean, Rojas is there, and he's been. I don't. You know, I don't think he needs to be cast off, but I don't think he's an integral. He has not played such. To such a degree that you're. You're planning around him at this point just because he's so platoon dependent. So all of this, you know, they called up Tyler Locklear, and despite the one day delayed, it does seem that Jeff Passon has been proven correct that they are, in fact, going to play him every day, and not Jason Fossler, who was called up for, you know, one early. One day early, though he is also starting at DH over Mitch Garver, which is pretty remarkable to me.

Evan James
We're in the weeds now, boys.

Jon Truepen
Well, this is. This is the thing. I mean.

Yeah.

Judy
When things are not going well, try new things, right? Like, as the news has reminded us, when. When things are bad, variance is your friend.

Jon Truepen
Yes.

Yes. I mean, this is how they found caballero this is how.

I don't know what you'd call what they did with Mike Ford last year, but it's how Mike Ford happened for a while. This is.

This is.

Judy
I don't know that Mike Ford happened to them, you know.

Jon Truepen
Yeah, yeah. Happened. Happened to them, you know, positively, but he did happen to them.

And, you know, Cade Marlowe is back, so they're really.

This is. This.

Judy
Wait, I didn't even catch that news.

Jon Truepen
Marlowe is back and starting in right field.

Sam, have you seen the lineup today?

Evan James
John, I think you should read it off as a.

Jon Truepen
Well, I was going to have. I was going to have. I was going to have Zach try and give us what he thinks the lineup is today.

Judy
Oh, I love this game. All right, so Cal's catching DH ing. You said that.

Jon Truepen
I did, yeah. I gave Rossler away.

Judy
I am inferring that Dylan Moore is playing, so I'm guessing he's a shortstop.

Jon Truepen
Correct. Hitting 8th, Vossler's hitting 7th. Cals hitting third.

Judy
Cals hitting third. All right, so Polanco's got to be in there.

Jon Truepen
Oh, yeah. Second base. Cleanup.

Evan James
Cleanup hit.

Judy
Or more a Polanco. Okay. That's the kind of day we're having.

Evan James
This is where we are, boys.

Judy
Rojas and Rayleigh must be played.

Jon Truepen
Correct. Rojas lead off. Rayleigh is hitting fifth in left.

Judy
All right, so are they giving Locklear a shot on his first day at first base? Is that what?

Jon Truepen
Indeed they are. That's correct.

Judy
They got to play Robles.

Jon Truepen
I mean, Robles is the two hitter. He's in center.

Judy
So what? There's a right fielder missing. Oh, that's got to be Kate Marlowe, right?

Jon Truepen
Is Cade Marlowe back up and back at it again against the Anaheim Angels, where, in fairness, he did have, I would say, his greatest moment as a. As a professional player to this point. So if you're going to try and pull up, pull some rabbits out of your hat, it's a. It's a good place to start looking.

Judy
It's tough to catch lightning in a bottle twice, but, you know, people who get struck by lightning are more likely to get struck by lightning again.

Jon Truepen
So it's true. And the Mariners have, it does feel like been struck by lightning kind of repeatedly this year in a very different way than it is sometimes apocryphally described as an energizing experience.

Evan James
Yeah, not so much catching lightning in a bottle so much as getting hit by lightning and, you know, getting brain fried.

Jon Truepen
Catching lightning in the teeth.

Yeah.

Judy
Very depressing.

Jon Truepen
Well, what we're seeing here is this is the worst lineup they've put out this to date this year, at least on paper, and I cannot stress this enough, it is hysterical that they are, for all of these things, still in first place.

They're still in first place. And Logan Gilbert's pitching possible Cy Young winner, you know, on a Cy young level, having a Cy Young caliber season. Logan Gilbert, they have every opportunity to win tonight because Anaheim sucks. Anaheim, he's so bad.

And yes, Seattle has lost now four of their last five against the Angels. So that, you know, don't get me wrong, they're professional players and they can run into the ball, but they are simply a dramatically inferior team.

Even if. I don't know that's entirely true about this lineup.

Judy
There is worth noting that in those five games, the Mariners have outscored the Angels.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Judy
They've only won one game. They have outscored the angel.

Evan James
Yeah.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Judy
By, like, kind of a lot.

Jon Truepen
Yep.

Judy
By, what, six runs over those five games?

Jon Truepen
I believe that's correct. I will. I will double check. But it really is like, it is an absurdity that this is where we are with this team.

And yet Seattle gets to face Jose Soriano tonight, who is fine but is not particularly good and throws the equivalent of Cade Marlowe. Yeah. And is just someone who puts the ball over the plate a lot to be hit. And the Mariners are going to do that less than they should.

Evan James
But I was going to say, does that help us necessarily?

Judy
Absolutely help the foul ball count.

Jon Truepen
Right.

Evan James
Well, that is true. That is exactly right.

Jon Truepen
But, you know, this is. This is a roster that needs to make contact, and they have not remotely made enough contact all year. I don't know that the particular group of players they've called up are really going to change that, given that Cade Marlowe, Tyler Locklear are both relatively strikeout pro.

Judy
Yeah. Like, what's the big flaw in all these guys games?

Jon Truepen
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Voss. I mean, Vassar, maybe not, but Vassar also strikes out in less than triple a, but probably more in the bigs.

Judy
You know those studies they do where they take, like, two third grade classrooms in the same school and they, like, start reinforcing a message with one of them, like, oh, you guys are so tidy. You're always cleaning up after yourself. This is the clean room. And then they tell the other room, you know, you guys are so messy, you just can't get it together.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Judy
Dirtiest room on the floor or whatever. And then, like, the kids start to behave that way. Do you think there's like a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of that going on with the strikeouts in this organization.

Jon Truepen
Honestly, it does seem like there must be something psychosomatic at a certain point.

You become so conscious of it as a team, it is probably self fueling in some capacity in some measure here, unfortunately.

So what they're looking at is five more games. Well, they've got more than five games before the, before the deadline, but they've got five more games against absolute dog water teams in the Angels and then the White Sox. There is a, I would say non zero chance that the White Sox and I. Fingers crossed here. The Mariners unfortunately didn't dodge Tyler Anderson, who feels all but certain to be traded. But Garrett Crochet is lined up to pitch on the 28th, and there is no reason the White Sox should have him on the roster still by that point.

Judy
Well, and even if he's on the roster, they shouldn't have a pitch. Right. Like, I agree, available to, like, pitch that. That game for the team he gets traded to.

Jon Truepen
Right.

Judy
In terms of, like, his workload management.

Jon Truepen
Exactly. Exactly. Frankly, the same thing should be true of Eric Fetty, who they also should be training, who's also lined up to start that series. So it could be very well that Seattle is facing rookie Drew Thorpe, who I think is good, unfortunately, and I think they saw but then two bullpen games there in addition to a game that, even with this lineup, I think they should win a, and Griffin Canning tomorrow against Luis Castillo, this should be a four and one or five and o stretch.

And I think on 710 today, there were, you know, hand wringing about if they, if they lose four out of five, they're going to be six games back, which mathematically impossible, but also, it's not going to. It's, if it, if it ends up that way, you can do something different. But the Mariners don't have.

Look at this roster. This is not a roster made to be sold.

This is, this is even, even in the context where, okay, you're actually. They fallen out of it a fair amount. There's not a selling orientation.

Judy
You're selling low on literally anybody except for the players who you want to keep.

Jon Truepen
Exactly. The entire rotation.

The.

Judy
The rotation is rotation. And Munoz, you could sell for something worthwhile, maybe Cal rally.

I mean, you would certainly get something worthwhile for Cal rally, but, like, this value, I'm saying, might be at or near wherever it should be, everybody else you'd be selling low on. It just doesn't make any sense. That's why they're underperforming, because it's a good team that also has been playing like crap.

It's a real pickle.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Honestly, I'm open to a different interpretation of this, but the fact that Julio is on the IL and JP is on the IL here makes it easier for me to say. It makes it easier for them, I think, to target certain positions, certain players, because literally every spot on the diamond now you have, you would. You would be significantly upgrading. I everywhere except Cal. If you're going out to buy, there are players on the market that are demonstrably better than the players who are in the lineup currently.

And I guess I. Maybe you're just shuffling back into approximately where you've been for the first several months of the year. But even still, I think you have more justification to the whole. The argument against trading for Luis Robert because he might have to play a corner outfield spot. Well, he wouldn't have to do that for a few months or not a few months. I don't think Julio is out for a few months, but certainly a few weeks.

And I. If you're looking for an infielder or a corner infield, a middle infielder or a corner infielder, all of these options are there, every single spot you can improve because the pitching is going to keep you in games.

Evan James
We talked last week about how exactly what you said. They can have functionally put any player in this lineup and it will be an upgrade. But I've also come around to feeling like it is too big a project for them to pull off at the deadline. We all know, and if Kate was here, she'd be echoing like, you pay a premium on whatever move you make at the deadline. So are we prepared to overpay for four offensive additions to this lineup? And will that even matter if, you know, we're especially now down one of our. One of our only two actually performing offensive players is no longer with us and won't be with us for. It sounds like at least a couple of weeks, maybe a month.

A month that we don't have, frankly, in terms of losing time. I think that over the last week, I have come all the way around on this from thinking like, they really need to add. They really need to add. They should push to. For what?

To build what? Because the reality is, is at the end of this season, they are going to have to rip up the floorboards and tear this entire offense apart to the studs again. They have no choice. They have two. Two offensive players period. Everybody else, as far as I'm concerned, is in some kind of limbo. Doesn't mean you're not keeping Dylan Moore and Josh Rojas and, you know, JP, because you probably are. But there are legitimately nine to ten spots of the position players for this team that I think will be turned over, or at least the discussion about it needs to be had, and that is a cataclysmic level of change. It is far too much to be sustained at one deadline. It is the consequence of them failing to add real talent to this team. I would actually go so far as to say I was reading it trended on Twitter yesterday. The actual list of players Jerry has acquired last year and this year to add to the team that's active sabotage. My guys, like, I don't know how.

Jon Truepen
Else to put it.

Evan James
Sabotage. Like, they burned the boat down and they missed the playoffs last year by one game because of it. They are really teetering on that edge right now. Um, I think I've kind of seen enough as far as the. The players they've acquired. I was joking with Zach that he mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the Mariners are kind of, like, already a Jerry depot deadline acquisition team. That was true a couple of weeks ago. What's happened since is they've stopped hitting even more and strong from 19th in the league to 21st, 22nd, 23rd. They are 30th by average. They are 29th by, uh, on base percentage and 28th by slugging. So they are bottom three by most metrics, and they're basically an entire backup team now. They are Julio Cal and a backup roster, functionally, and I just don't see Luis Robert, like, what good does anything do at this point? I'm so defeated by the totality of the failure of it that I don't think it can be repaired on the fly. Do you guys agree with that or no? Because I do think. I still think they should add. I still think they should do a smart thing if there's a trade to be had. But I think the realistic expectation that we can fix this in any meaningful sense is kind of gone. Right?

Jon Truepen
I disagree, but I want to hear Zach first.

Judy
I think it really depends on what your definitions are of, like, what does it mean to fix it? I think it is correct that, like, watching a team that is really good and goes all the way and you feel really good about, like, that chip has failed, but the possibility of still winning because they get a little lucky, and even while they're underperforming, they're good enough. That's still on the table. And that's why they should add, because they remain in first place amid all of this chaos. And that.

That, to me, is why they should add. But I don't know what it means to, like, I agree with you. They can't fix it in a way that this becomes, you know, the, like, 2021 dodgers or something like that's definitely off the table.

Jon Truepen
For sure. For sure.

Fix, to me, is.

Fix is not even really the right question because you're. I completely agree that they didn't do the work ahead of time. I think I said few, few times ago, they were on here. They were, you know, they were cheap and they were lazy the past few years, and some of that was, much of that is ownership, but some of that is on, ultimately, the front office for saying, okay, well, we're gonna make a bunch of moves, even though we, we have these restrictions, and it's harder to do that. But those moves haven't worked.

And I give them all the credit in the world. All the credit in the world very deservingly for their ability to draft, their ability to do amateur scouting, and internally developed.

But that is.

It is incredibly important, but it has not matched their ability to identify players at the pro level. And, excuse me, for whatever reason, the folks that they have gone out and gotten at the pro level, uh, have just not delivered. So, okay. We're. We're concerned that, that maybe that's going to mean, you know, they're not going to do a great job this deadline.

What do we do we think, Evan, I'm asking this to you. Do we think is the premise that they would have a better chance of improving this winter instead of.

Evan James
Yeah, I. 100 per thing. 100% think that. And the reason is several fold. One is just the number of moving pieces. It's harder to. It's harder to swap out six spots in your offense in a couple weeks, in a feeding frenzy over the course of the next week than it is to do it over the course of an offseason? Much harder. I think Mitch Hanniger's contract in particular.

Let's talk tie France for a second. Why did they dump tie France and not Mitchaniger? Shannon was on 710 yesterday and made it very clear that was because of the money. It was because dumping Ty France costs two and a half million dollars right now. Dumping Mitch Hanniger costs his entire $16 million salary for next year plus half this year. That's about $20 million. They were slash. Are not prepared to do that. Is the implication that I got from them. That, and we're 100 games into the season for the record. Like, I think part of my frustration now is like, they stuck with this plan for a very long time and I was okay with it 40, 50, 60 games in the season. We are 100 games into the season, and their attitude seems to be we're going to play Mitch Hanniger and Jorge Polanco the rest of the way.

I understand Garver, because at least there's a credible argument that, like, there's something there. And given that he's a backup catcher, it's like he's. He has a function on the roster, sort of. He's caught Kirby. That's mostly ok. But the other two guys is kind of inexcusable at this point. And they let go of Ty France because. Because of the money, because he was cheap. They could feasibly cut him. They decided not to do that with Mitch Hannigere. So going forward, I think that Mitch Hanniger is an off season project. So if, you know, we want to do anything with that, that's going to come at the end of the season when they can actually afford to do some kind of maneuvering around it.

So those are the two primary reasons. One is the Mitch money, I think, is a major obstacle they're dealing with right now. And two is that just the bulk of pieces that have to be moved to really get this team that they want, that's not striking out this much. That isn't the absolute bottom of the offensive spectrum of the entire league.

It's just. It's just too much. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't see it. I don't see them getting six guys for this team in a week. I could see them getting four and two of them being good and one of them being interesting and one of them being Vossler. Right. Like, that's kind of where I'm at with it, but that's. That's not enough. And to your point, that they don't need to be fixed, as it were. They need to be good enough. I think that they can make improvements where they can continue to win some of these one run, two run, three run game situations. But Luke Arkins posted a stat yesterday that 20% of their games, they are scoring one or fewer runs. Like, you cannot. You cannot not score 20% of the time and win. You can't. Doesn't matter how good your pitching is, you have to score a single run. And, like, I feel desperate. I feel for the first time this year, I feel desperate, and I don't like it.

Jon Truepen
I guess the argument that I have been making and the argument I stand by is because the pitching has been so good, you don't need the offense to be that much better.

You just need the offense to score a little bit more.

Judy
More.

Jon Truepen
And I think two significant improvements, ideally, in my mind, that is one very big improvement and then another smaller scale improvement, which is particularly easy now, makes a big difference because maybe they come in and don't perform. Maybe they come in and perform just fine. Maybe they come in and perform even better. Who knows?

But the margin of victory, the margin of error for the Mariners has been one to two runs.

So often, I think they have the second most one run games of any team this year. And I couldn't see, I haven't checked whether they have the most two run games or not, but I would be willing to bet they're in the top five in terms of proximal games there.

That is why even if you're making an upgrade that feels like, well, it's a little bit futile, it only is one or two more hits a game. It that matters. They're not four or five hits away in a lot of these games.

And I agree that there's a reason, you know, there's cause that there's less scarcity at the deadline in some aspects, or there's more scarcity at the deadline. Sorry, but in the winter, almost every team has cause to hold on to players.

Yes. I'm not going to dispute that. The deadline creates clear buyer sellers and therefore creates this environment where a few teams, a few terrible teams can really corner the market. But next year, I mean, just looking at it, every team in the AL east, every team, but probably the White Sox in the AL Central, at least three teams in the AL west.

Every team. But maybe the Marlins in the Nl east.

Every team in the NL Central, and every team but the Rockies in the NL west are going to go into next year thinking they, they can make the playoffs. I mean, the Rockies might think they'll make, they're going to make playoffs. They're wrong. But, you know, who knows?

Exactly.

So, so you're going to look at this winter, what, four or five teams that actually have cause to say, yeah, we should trade away an established big leaguer for prospects. And that's pretty much what you're looking at at the deadline here. So you, if the mayor, if you, unless you think the Mariners current group of players has the capacity, I mean, and I don't think this is wrong to say that the current group of players has the capacity to turn around, but I think they would be much better off next year with players who have performed this year.

I don't know where you're getting better offensively next year, especially unless you're going to go out and spend money in free agency, which they've shown no inclination.

Judy
That's the big difference is the free agency, because even though it seems unlikely that the Mariners are going to do that, it creates more.

There's more options to buy, right? There's like an entire extra team of places where you can go get better. Who are the free agents? And the fact that, like, the Yankees will pick one of those guys up means that the Yankees aren't going to pick up one of the guys that the Marlins are willing to sell. So that does make a difference. But I mostly agree with you, John.

You were talking about how they only need to be, like, a little bit better for it to make a huge difference, which I agree with.

I think it will continue to be, like, really painful to watch, but it would make a big difference given how many of these games are so close because the pitching is just that good.

The other piece of that is that there's just not that much season left.

Like, they are in this spot with only 60 games to go, and they, like, that's why their playoffs odds remain so high. Despite the fact that Houston is so obviously a much better team.

It's because there's, like, less time on the clock. They managed to get 100 games into the season in this spot. And that's why, like, I think it's important to look forward at what they can do and, you know, perhaps be lessen, bogged down by the fact, like, the way that they got there.

Like, they can still change the future a little bit. And that's sort of like, the flip side of what you were saying, evan, about how frustrating it's been that they waited a hundred days into the season to start doing things like this.

You know, continuing to roll with Mitch Hanegar and continuing to roll with Ty France this whole time. And, like, you know, when we were talking early May, we were like, I mean, I think the hosts of this podcast were divided, but there was, like, a reasonable contingent that I was probably the biggest cheerleader on for continuing to be patient with Ty France. And I think that made sense at the beginning of May, and it, like, made less and less and less sense as the season went on to the point where it was undeniable. And there's, like, not a single person saying, why did they do this today?

And that's, you know, again, why? I think it would have been worth a paying a premium to go make a big move earlier, even though it would have cost a premium to do so. And like every day that ticks by, they're wasting an opportunity that these windows are short and you have to seize the moment, right? You can't like just call it and hope that it comes to together better next year. Because what they're going to try and do next year is like one more year off the clock on the contracts of the starting pitchers who are so essential to this team's success. So there's just, there's all of these reasons not to sell and all of these reasons to buy.

Evan James
And.

Judy
So much has to change for this to be a really good team that's really fun to watch, but so little has to change for them to get into the playoffs. And then the playoffs is a series of point flips. You know, the Diamondbacks and the Rangers were in the World Series last year.

Zach Mason
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Evan James
Yeah, I agree with all that. And I think that especially for this year, the teams, the fortune of the first couple of months is not going away. You know what I mean? Even though we've essentially lost our entire lead in first place, like, like you said, we're still, we're still tied for first place. We would still be in if it happened today. There were playoffs today. So there's definitely a lot of reasons to have chips on the table for right now.

My concern has shifted from like, is it a good idea to do we want them doing this, given the way that this has gone the last two years? And this is where my thinking is, their major league talent acquisition has been so bad, I would argue generationally bad if you're looking at this offense this year, and the question is, do I want the people who are the arbiters of the decisions that brought in those players picking not only at this deadline but trading away from this farm system? That Jeff Paston said this morning is a top farm system in baseball. Some people will tell you, number one, do I want, do I want them emptying out the resources? We do have to try again on this team, not just this year, but, but next year. Because like I said, no matter what you do for this year, if you, even if you bring in players who are going to be around for next season, if you bring in Luis, Robert or Robert, and he's going to be around next year and you bring in Esophretti, so he's going to around next year, you still have all this work to do. You still have a tremendous amount of turnover you're going to incur. And it's a question of where I'm at at this point is do I want the groupthink that is responsible for this getting another shot at this? And my honest opinion is no. And that sucks because I don't like talking about people getting fired. I don't like talking about people losing their jobs. I don't like talking about turnover.

But I don't think you can make an, you can construct an offense this generationally deficient. They have a 217 average. Like, what are we talking about?

It's not, and to use Scott's exact terminology last night, it's not major League Baseball. It's unserious, what we're seeing right now. And so I think I want them to go all in because I don't want them to waste the opportunity that's in front of us. But I'm also very concerned about wasting the next two seasons where we still have this rotation intact for, you know, at least in theory, based on the decisions they're about to make.

I'm caught in between. What do you think, Zach?

Judy
Well, look, I get it. Like, the results have been the results. There's no denying that they've brought in a lot of guys who have, like, really struggled. But where I get caught up is, like, so many of those moves were viewed by the industry as coups. You know, like, when they made the Jorge Polanco deal, we all came on here, and we're, like, extremely stoked about that. And that's sort of what, like, the consensus around baseball was, too, when they went and got te Oscar Hernandez, the, you know, all of the reporting on that was like, yes, absolutely. Ta. Oscar is a huge hitter. This is a great idea. When they went and got Jesse winker, everybody, you know, the reporting was, again, like, the consensus around the commentariat was, again, this is a really, really good move. He's such a good hitter. He's going to be so good. There was very little skepticism based on the information that was available at the time consistently around these bad boobs. Now, you can bring up, like, the Mitch Hannigers of the world, but, like, they did not bring in Mitch Hanniger to be, like, the solution to a problem. Right? Like, that was a money movement deal because Mitch Hanniger's dead money was of more use to the Mariners than Robbie Ray's dead money. And, like, maybe that will turn out not to be true. But it wasn't like they brought in Machanagraph thinking he was going to be, like, a really important offensive player. So that's sort of where I get caught up on the idea that they're, like, making bad decisions, is that so many of these decisions seemed really good to smart people at the time.

And it, it's really hard to imagine, like, this many instances is just bad luck.

But when I don't see these aren't Shelby Miller trades, right? Where they're like, everybody's like, what the hell are you thinking, right. That if this had been a string of those, I would be totally with you, but I really don't know what to make of that.

Evan James
What I would say to that is I totally agree with everything you said. I especially agree with the point that, like, it just seems to have been too much of a pattern for them to just be getting unlucky. I agree that we as, as normans slash amateur analysts did like these moves, that a lot of the public did like these moves. The fact that they didn't work out and other teams made these moves for us maybe should give us pause. And you, for the record. Zach were one of the people who, when Polanco has traded, said, hey, like, the volume that we traded for, the prospects we sent out for this do not indicate he is like, real player. And we were all like, yeah, you know, but last year, numbers, etcetera. For the record, it hasn't really worked out for the twins either. Their replacement, the rookie that they wanted to put in that spot, hasn't panned out, but they did sell low on a guy and we bought low on a guy, and it's like at a certain point you have to look at the totality of it and understand what it's cost you. I feel like, and I also, I'm having flashbacks lately because I'm looking at some of the players they've acquired, and I'm really getting Ryan Healy vibes from, like, the whole team where for the Dom can zones of it all, where the, the major league archetype is, they seem to be acquiring guys who are kind of fringy as far as their profile to be major league starters, maybe even very strictly platoon, and pointing and saying, nope, this is. This guy can start. He's going to be the one we're going to give full time starting roles to, and they don't turn into anything, and they give him two years of time.

And we did that last year and this year at Domkin Zone, we did that once upon a time with Ryan Healy. I'd like to see.

I'm just ready for a different major league talent evaluation for this type of player. I'm sick of it being these discount bargain bin type guys where they're trying to get these really high margin returns on and they're just not very good because we don't. Our whole team is so bad. Our whole offense is so bad because they've done this. And I just. I don't see how. How we can continue to make decisions like this and it will change, because realistically, if you're looking at the Mariners, they're not really any better or worse than they were Jerry's first year or second year or his third year. They're pretty much stuck in this middle section, right, where they're. They're just good enough to kind of be almost in it, but they haven't made the playoffs, really, and they can't get above the teams that are significantly better than them. They're a solid third tier squad.

Judy
Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's all.

I think all of us are sort of, like, feeling the same way about it, which is, this sucks. It's hard to identify exactly what the problem is.

It's clear they could get better.

It will be challenging with JP in his second IL stint of the year and with Julio on the shelf, too.

I mean, high ankle sprain has a long recovery time. Julio is 23 and a freak, so you imagine who won't be on like the long end of that spectrum. But in any of that, like, I. I don't know. I feel like the shelf life of this podcast is going to be pretty short because the deadline is approaching so quickly.

But I the tie France era ended, so with a whimper.

Evan James
Unceremoniously.

Judy
Unceremoniously, yeah, after he had been performing badly, but, like, no one bad thing happened. And I don't know, he was like such a core player to so many of the good things that have happened to this team over the last five years.

And I would just like, really like to give him his due for that and how much entertainment he provided to this team, both, like, in his personality and his on the field play for so much of the time that he was here and that I will miss having him on the field greatly, even as I think it was the right thing to do when the Mariners could do better with that roster spot.

It makes me very sad. He was so easy to root for, he was so joyful, and his skillset when he was going good was so fun to watch.

And I just. I don't want us to ignore that in this venting of bad news and gawking at this horrible lineup. Like, do either of you have, like, a favorite tie France memory?

Evan James
I saw him hit a few home runs in person that were really fun. I saw him hit a home run that clinched the Bryce Miller start earlier this year. So that's easy.

But just as a general thing to say about tie France, he is one of, if not one of the only real offensive prospect success stories for this depot regime slash Hollander regime, and I am incredibly grateful. There is some cruel irony that as soon as we have needed him most, he has not been here anymore. But he is. He is this success story of Jerry depot kind of picking these marginal players offensively, growing them, giving them a role that they build into. He really is the success story, him and JP Crawford. So love tie France. Nothing. I have nothing, no bad feelings towards tie France at all. It's disappointing that we're here, but love tie France.

Jon Truepen
I I think that my favorite is the end, the last game of 2022, and I don't know that this is fully it, but he had just a walk off in that game, and it was not like that game literally didn't matter.

Judy
Luis Terrence pitching performance, correct.

Jon Truepen
Correct.

But his, my image of Ty France as a mariner is going to be him getting his bat underneath low and away sliders and looping them into right field singles because he, he just wasn't able to be that hitter the last year or two.

But when he was, it was something I haven't seen in quite a while and certainly not from a mariner.

Someone who had this bat to ball ability that could, could negate the best pitches that most pitchers had, the best breaking balls that most pitchers had. And it really was, it really was special.

Judy
He had a, he had a bat to ball ability. He had an everything to ball ability. This is a record holder.

Jon Truepen
That's true. That's true.

Evan James
You know, the two other players who I think had bat to ball skills slash quick hands that could rival tie France of recent were Kyle Lewis and Gene Segura. So riff, I guess in that case.

Jon Truepen
Yeah, I do think, I do like, I mean, just Gene Segura and the sort of funniest, in the funniest way was a reasonable comparison for time France.

I just, in the next week, I think that they are going to have to decide if this is when they're going to try and improve for not just this year, but the next few years or if they are going to largely say, we believe only in internal improvements, because with France gone, they have, they have called up pretty much everyone that could feasibly help them this year.

I like Cole Young. I think Cole Young could be helpful to this team, but I don't think that he's played so well that, you know, he's not, he's certainly not beating down the door. So there's not really anything left. You know, Logan Evans, maybe you could call up, but again, that's not really the issue.

Evan James
And if he's almost out of innings for this year.

Jon Truepen
Yeah. And if he's not coming into the bullpen, then, then I don't think it makes sense. So your internal resources are tapped.

You, you've played your whole hand.

And unless you're going to wait until 2027 for Emerson and Montez and the, the whole 2023 draftee class, you have to figure out how you're going to improve without spending money, apparently, so that this isn't the same place that they're in next year again, because there's, there's just, there's not another way to do it other, you know, other than your players just get a lot better.

Maybe that happens to. But.

Evan James
But kind of feels like we already did that jump with the prospects, doesn't it?

Jon Truepen
Yeah, they've had a lot of great performances. They've had a lot of encouraging things happening.

Judy
They've also talked about, like, the waves of these prospects and, like, they're between waves right now.

Jon Truepen
That's right.

Judy
Not a bad thing, but it creates a challenge. Right.

Jon Truepen
This would be when Noel v. Martin.

Judy
It's a bad thing for today.

Jon Truepen
Right. This would be when, you know, Noel v Marte would be playing for them. No, Mount Novi Marte is playing for the Reds. Hasn't been good. You know, in fact, has been very.

Judy
Loose with the word playing.

Jon Truepen
Right. Right. He's back now and has been awful.

Evan James
So probably shouldn't have put him on the major league roster given his rehab numbers, but that's. That's. That's beside the point. Just.

Jon Truepen
Yes, just. Just to save. Like, there's not.

You're absolutely right about the waves and. And there's not anything more. It's class A and locklear in this.

Evan James
Zone sticking on this. Let's. Let's wrap today. Coming full circle and talking about the guys they brought back up because, like, on a happy note, I'd like to talk about. I am excited for Locklear. Right. Let's talk about the. We are excited for these guys because I am. I'm excited for Locklear. I expect that he's going to struggle. I expect that he's going to strike out a lot, probably between 30 and 25% of the time, which is he'll fit right in with this Mariners offense so seamlessly.

Like he is. Like he was never not here. I think he's probably going to approximate Ty Francis performance. Ty Francis running about a 96 97 WRC plus or just below average. I think Locklear will hit better initially and then struggle as the league adjusts to him over the next 60 games or so, give you a similar performance. But like I said, by a different measure, he's going to hit for a little more power, maybe a little less contact and be a little better, I think, in defense at first base. So I'm excited that we have some young blood. I'm just so officially bored of what they've done. So I think that it is different. A prospect is fun. It's exciting.

Judy
Yeah. I was, before we started recording, I was telling Evan how, like, yesterday I moved from the point where the game was my second screen content and I was like, on my phone while the game was going on to a point where I was, like, reaching for another phone because I was that uninterested in the second screen content.

And it's just like, you know, this is so unwatchable, like anything new.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Judy
At least there's something to be watching.

Jon Truepen
Yeah.

Judy
That's, like, what I'm excited about, you know, like, the plate appearances I was watching yesterday were Victor Robless. Because that's, like, new and different and interesting.

Jon Truepen
Absolutely.

Judy
Whatever it is that Botzler's got in store, like Bossler, I hardly know her. I'm excited to find out.

Jon Truepen
I've seen a lot of people saying this is reminding them of 2015 and 2017, but those teams were the opposite issue. They could hit plenty and they could not pitch. So you were losing a lot of eight to six games.

Evan James
Was that the Bergman era?

Jon Truepen
Three to one. That was the Christian Bergman era Bergman. You had some Sam Gaviglio. You had Andrew Moore.

Judy
Did you know that Sam Gaviglio has a little banner in San Diego's little Italy for Italian Americans? Like athletes? Like on the street lamp. It's Sam Gaviglio in a Mariners uniform.

Jon Truepen
Good on him. Maybe Ty France can get one. Cause he's from San Diego. He's. I don't think italian, but he's from San Diego.

Judy
I don't think he can french either. Weirdly.

Jon Truepen
He's also. Yes, he's nothing. Honestly, one of the wildest things.

But, yeah, I think let's.

I am. I am looking forward to seeing Locklear. I also.

You.

I think that this lineup looks significantly different in a week, and I think it's a lineup that we are going to get used to for the next at least two years with multiple significant differences.

Evan James
So your prediction is they make significant ads to be clear, that's what you're saying?

Jon Truepen
Okay. Yes.

So I'm. I'm hoping to see that, but we'll have more content throughout the week as hopefully things break.

Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Sam.

Thank you, Evan. Thank you, McDougal bats.

And until next time you close.

Change Is In The Air - Are The Mariners Still Buyers? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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Episode Chapters

1: Introduction and Trade Deadline Context

2: Injury Impacts and Team Performance

3: Ty France's Departure and Its Implications

4: Buying or Selling? Strategy Debate

5: Looking Ahead: Mariners' Future

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