Brown Out - Is The Offensive Explosion Real? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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Evan James
18 plus terms and conditions supply hello and welcome. This is the Meet at the Mitt podcast. I'm Evan James. I'm joined by Anders Jorstad today, and it sounds like we're gonna have Zach Mason on here a little bit. He's doing the write up for lookout landing. I know you guys love that. I'm looking forward to reading that. Obviously, the big news of the day is the Mariners are fresh off of a sweep of the Los Angeles Angels, and you know, my dad always used to tell me, Anders, that men often will wrestle with their, their much younger sons, you know, when they're like two and three and four years old. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a thing. And my dad always used to say, I always wanted to beat my dad at wrestling, and then the day came where I could actually do it, and there just wasn't as much thrill in it anymore because he was, you know, an old, feeble man at that point. And I definitely feel a little bit of that beating up on the angels like we did today. They're in some sense, I love it because it's good to see them in such dire straits, being the trash fire organization that they are, but it just isn't the same because they're not putting up the fight that I'm accustomed to being. No trout, no tawny, no anybody. How did you feel watching this week?

Anders Jorstad
The fact that you feel a fatherly bond of the angels is, I think, something that needs a further examination. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that analogy.

To me, they're like the really snotty older brother who we, like, can't stand, and then we're finally stronger than him. It's almost like a moment of triumph, right? I don't feel bad for them in any way, shape or form. I think it's. Yeah, it's more like the older brother or like a hated schoolyard rival. You know, we all had that one person that we just, like, couldn't stand. That's like, if you finally beat them at whatever game that you guys are accustomed to playing at that time.

So I am just, like, rebelling in it.

For me, anytime the angels are doing poorly, I think it's great.

I do feel partially badly because I don't think the players are like, I don't have any hatred against the players. In fact, I was like, people came after me when Otani was on the Angels for saying that Ohtani was my favorite baseball player.

So that was still true even though I hated the Angels.

But you're right, I understand what you're saying, that it is not the same as the triumph, I guess, of sweeping them last year, especially when they had Otani and Trout and everyone was there and that was the team that was supposed to be doing things.

So I think that it's certainly not the level of the four game sweep in Los Angeles or in Anaheim, rather, but I don't really know if we're going to get to that level again with this Angels team in quite some time. And partially because of that sweep.

I think it's going to take some time before we get there. I will say fun fact for you, Evan. My first ever recap that I wrote for lookout landing back in 2014 was when the Mariners swept the Angels in the first game of the Sea or the first series of the season.

That's fine. So I do have. I do have a little bit of, like, warmth in my heart for sweeping the angels for that particular reason.

So they're, you know, obviously very happy with the homestand in general. Was it was a very productive home stand for the team.

Evan James
Yeah. Especially after a really challenging road trip where obviously they struggled against some better teams, but it was good to see them, you know, put the brakes on the American League west, and one of the ways they're going to win this year, if they're going to win the division, is they're going to beat up these teams that are in their way and so far so good for the most part. They beat Texas, they beat Houston, they beat Oakland, and then they beat the Angels today in the series.

It's going pretty well, even though some of the signs underneath the surface are a little more ominous. And I know that you and I are both big run differential guys, and they're back to positive today, but they have been negative most of the month while they have been above average record wise.

What do you think of the offensive output that we saw over the last couple of days? Do you think this is a Los Angeles can't pitch Mirage, or did they actually kind of find something here?

Anders Jorstad
I'm going to need more than one series against a really bad Angels team to say for sure.

Coming into this series against the Angels, the Mariners were running what could have been like if the season had ended at where they were? They would have been, I believe, the highest strikeout rate for a team in major league history, or at least they were up there from what I saw.

So for them to, you know, obviously they, they kind of performed better on that front against the Angels in these three games, and you're going to see all sorts of narratives about that being, because the Brown firing, which we'll talk about, I'm sure, here, going in a few minutes, but we have seen this before from this team. I don't know if you remember there was a series against the Reds in April where they were turning things around offensively, and we were like, oh, is this the turning point? And it wasn't. So I guess I have a little bit of hesitation before I'm ready to say, like, this team is back. That said, I think that what you can do is you can look at the individual player performances and kind of extrapolate from that. JP Crawford looks like he has kind of come back into his own since the injury. He's. He's found his groove at the plate.

Julio, even though we're still waiting for that power output, really, from him, he is starting to get some good wood on the ball. He is kind of getting a lot, collecting a lot of singles.

Luke Rayleigh obviously turning things around. I think he is just kind of going to be a streaky player, though. So I don't know how much there is to really go into on that front. You know, he's going to have some really frustrating weeks. He's going to have some really, really helpful weeks, and I think we're just going to kind of have to ride the wave with him. But, yeah, there are certainly some players who I'm encouraged by, who I think deserve some. Some further deep dives into.

And because of that, I am more optimistic about this team than I would be with. Just like, you know, a couple weeks ago when it was Dylan Moore and Josh Rojas who were leading this team offensively. And that's not really something I feel sustainable is sustainable.

I feel better when it's the core guys on this team that we were expecting things from who were kind of coming, you know, coming on offensive.

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Evan James
Yeah, and let's talk about one guy who it feels like has finally come most all the way around. He finally has an above average WRC plus on the season at first base. I'm talking about Ty France, who was the hero three days ago with that what wound up being the game winning home run there in the 8th inning.

He's had a really interesting season in that there was so much optimism going in with the driveline stuff and him looking like, you know, he maybe lost some weight and put on some muscle and was in better shape and had a really promising spring training, but the numbers just didn't bear out any kind of significant change, at least for the first couple of months. But he has finally started to look like a new form of tie freeze because he doesn't look like the guy who was really injured at times over the past couple of years, nor does he have a 100 and 4160 wRC. So he's not all Star tie France that we've seen for halves either.

But what do you think of the new version of him that seems to be sitting a little bit above average at first base but getting his power stroke back?

Anders Jorstad
This is funny because Zach and I had this conversation about tie France when we were in DC. For those of you who don't know, Zach and I both live in the DC area, and so the once every two years that the Mariners come to play the nationals, he and I try to go to every single game, and we generally sit together. And it's funny, we were with a buddy of Zach's who said that listening to us talk sounds like just transporting an episode of the podcast into the ballpark, because we're just, like, talking about the kinds of things that you'd hear us talking about on here. But we were kind of going back and forth on Ty France because France is a guy that I have long liked. He's a guy who I was very high on. You know, in 2021, he and Hanniger were the only two real offensive players on that team, and they almost made the playoffs. So that was pretty spectacular. In 2022, he was obviously an all star. And after last year, I came on here this winter and said that I thought he was going to turn it around. I did not want to trade him. There were a lot of people in the fan base who were very hot to trade him, hot to get rid of him and replace him with someone else.

And I had kind of turned around the other way when Zach and I were talking about it because I had gotten to the point where I was like, I feel like I have been waiting for France to come back to where he was in 2021 2022, and I just wasn't seeing it. And then, lo and behold, these last two weeks, week and a half or so, he has really, really come on strongly. And it is amazing that we're here in the month of June, but a couple of weeks can do wonders for your numbers. His WRC plus is up over 110 at this point. His ex, WOBA is now in line with where it was that all star season, in line with kind of his career norms in the 320s range. He was more in the 340s in that 21 season, but he was in the.

So it seems like the under the hood numbers are really supporting that. He's kind of come back to what we expect from tie France. The one thing that I am still concerned about when it comes to France, and this is true of the whole team, obviously, is the strikeout rate is almost 10% higher than his career norms, which is just ridiculous.

I would love to see the swing and miss come down and I don't know how much of that is.

And this is one of those things where it is so weird how every single player on this team is above their norms and strikeout rates. I think that is maybe something you could point to and say it's potentially related to their approach as a team. And that is maybe where you bring the hitting coaches into the equation because they're the ones who are telling them, hey, this is what your strategy should be when you come to the plate. And if everyone's numbers are looking in one particular direction, that is kind of a red flag to me. The other thing, obviously, Seattle is the most strikeout friendly ballpark, basically, in major League Baseball. Strikeout rate is, is above average in Seattle compared to any other park in, in the sport, which is another thing that I think is worth diving into. You know, Tay Oscar had those comments about the batter's eye and it being just really hard to see the ball and get the ball out of the pitcher's hand. Obviously, the Mariners pitchers strike out a lot of guys, and we kind of don't think about that, that side of things.

But back to the tie France thing specifically, you know, I do feel comfortable that this version of tie France is maybe a version that, that can be productive this season and maybe the kind of guy who ends up sticking around next year. I think the question still kind of looms whether he's going to be a part of this club next year, whether he'll get non tendered. And that was kind of the conversation Zach and I were having is like, you know, at that point, Tyler Locklear, the Mariners first base prospect, had not been called up to Tacoma yet. And I was like, I don't really know what they're waiting for, frankly, because they kind of need to know if Locklear can be the guy to replace Ty France before the end of this season or if they. Or if they have to hold on to France or seek an external option.

But with France turning things around, you know, I think that helps Locklear, you know, not feel like he needs to get rush. And I think it. It's going to potentially take off some of those trade candidates off the table that people are really excited about. The Pete Alonso and Vlad Guerrero who, for what it's worth, and maybe this is worth a different conversation entirely, I think there's like a 0% chance either of those guys is a realistic target for Jerry Depot. It's just not the kind of player that he would go after.

But, you know, I would be very happy with France to be kind of what he's been here going forward. I just.

It looked a lot better when he was in the seven hole than when he is in like the five hole now.

Evan James
Agreed. And as far as you know him for next year, I think that right now the Mariners problems to be solved are related to this season, and we'll kind of cross that bridge when we come to it. But it is wild that we were talking about Locklear two, three weeks ago, and you remember you gave the divish quote, which is there he's still working on stuff and they want him to work on stuff. And I said, well, you know, we'll see in a couple of weeks. And two weeks later, there he is in Tacoma. It's like I just expected all of this to some degree thrilled about what I'm seeing from Locklear. For the record, I believe he's like seven for 19 when I checked.

Anders Jorstad
Burning pretty hot in Tacoma. That said, tacoma is a very hitter friendly ballpark.

Evan James
So it is. And he's only got single so far, so he's. He's hitting seven singles in his 1st 19 at bats or whatever.

Anders Jorstad
So I think he's going to be. I think he's going to be in Seattle at some point this year. I just think that it's better for the organization if that happens in like August or September than if they have to bring him up in like July.

Evan James
Yeah, it's better, too, if he hits his way up. And they're excited to play him like they were for class A and not that tie. France is cratering and they're looking for other solutions. There's. There's a better way to do this. And we're on track for that, fortunately.

Anders Jorstad
Can I ask you something real quick? I'm sorry.

Evan James
Yeah, go ahead.

Anders Jorstad
You brought up Klaus. A. Is it weird to you that they called him up and they're like, not playing him?

Evan James
His entire usage so far has perplexed me a great deal. It feels weird to have burned multiple options, bringing him up the way that they have. It feels weird to not use him in certain situations. Even today, he could have been on the base for Mitch Garver in the 9th inning. Like, true. There's just weird stuff about it. It seems like they have so much faith that they bring him up not once but twice in the. Because of the bat. And then they don't give him any run. Like he looks bad in a game or two. And then it's like, that's it. He sits for two weeks and I'm expecting them to demote him again because he hasn't played. And he, like, there's nowhere for him to play at all. And part of that again is that Kanzone and Rayleigh have looked much better as of late. Rayleigh especially. And so I think they've been more reluctant to put him in there, given his experience. But no, 100%, I don't like it. And I think it's kind of like bad asset management. You know what I mean? Like they might want one of those options on him in a year or two, and they're not going to have it because.

So he could get three at bats a week. Like, I'm not sure if I understand.

Anders Jorstad
It, but it's just weird to me in terms of kind of what you're saying. Like the planning element of it all. If the plan is to have a guy who can just like, be an out, a competent outfielder who can fill in one or two games a week, then you have Cade Marlowe. That.

And you don't need to stunt the growth and development of a 21 year old who still probably needs regular at bats to figure out how to hit pitchers.

And maybe their whole thought is like, at this point, he's not going to learn to hit big league pitching until he hits big league pitching, which, okay, then he should be playing every day.

So it's kind of like, my frustration is just like, them not. You can't really have it both ways in this sense. And and this is like a very minor thing in the grand scheme of things. I'm finding something to complain about with the team being seven games over, 504 games in the division lead. So I apologize for. For finding something to be sour about, but it is something that I'm concerned about for Class A himself because I want him to succeed. He's a guy who I've long really liked and I don't really think with the way everyone is playing there is a spot for him on this club and I would just rather him getting regular at bats. Tacoma right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they make that move, but I just wanted to talk about that really quickly.

Evan James
I think that demoting him is the right move, too because I don't know what Yuri it is, but he looks like the game is too fast for him at the plate, especially when I see him lately. The weird thing is he didn't look like that at first. His first like 912 plate appearances. First couple of games were great. I thought he looked like a veteran up there.

The wheels have come off a little bit and that could be just a book on him getting out and him getting pitched much more difficultly. You know, almost immediately is like on contact kind of. That happens to guys. Major league pitching is really good. It's hard.

Anders Jorstad
Well, I think the adrenaline was probably, you know, really helping out that first home stand that he was playing in, too, because he was just like so happy to be there and he hasn't played that much Tacoma, which is, I think, one reason why he should be down there, you know, getting some reps. But also I think the book is it wasn't really out on him because of that. You know, you'd have to look at double a tape to kind of figure out what. How to attack him. And that's not something that, you know, a 21 year old who's only had less than, you know, about a month of at bats and Tacoma, they're going to like make him prove that he can hit the fastball, so.

Evan James
And he's going to have to at some point. But I think we both agree they don't really have time to audition him. Like, it would be nice, but what would be even more nice is to keep winning and their margins are so thin as it is. So we're going to go with. We're going to go with the winning for now. But I do want to tie this back. You mentioned Ty France and the strikeout rate.

Anders Jorstad
Yep.

Evan James
Let's break. Let's break the eggs here. So Brent Brown fired. Brent Brown was the Mariners big coaching, teaching, front office acquisition of this past offseason. They talked about his work with Mookie Betts and the Dodgers.

I believe he'd also been with the Red Sox. Is that correct? Am I imagining that?

Anders Jorstad
Maybe. But the most recent one was with the Marlins. He helped Marlins Solaire around. Like that was a big thing. And everyone was expecting the Marine to bring Jorge Soler in as a result of the Brown hire.

Yeah.

Evan James
So now what? Because, look, I don't. I do not like to scapegoat the coaches at all, because if you were to ask me personally, Evan James, who do you blame for the way the Mariners have played? The first nine answers are the guys who are filling out the lineup card, in my opinion. And I think that most, most people would look out landing, and most of our fans would share that thought.

That being said, this is weird for me because I get echoes of, and I know when I say this name, people turn away, but there are echoes of Lorena Martin in this, in the Mariners bringing somebody in, baking a new position for them, building it wholesale like we're doing an offensive coordinator. And I understand that other teams, in particular, the Dodgers, kind of have, like a hidden coach within a whole bunch of people underneath him. So they have four or five people for the position where the Mariners essentially have Jared to Hart and Brent Brown formerly. So it's not that uncommon like. But they did. They brought in somebody who was essentially friends with Scott, who had some kind of a pedigree. But it's. It's unclear to me at this point what all that account amounts to at this point, because the Mariners were dreadful. So they bring in this guy, they make him their big offseason acquisition.

He doesn't even last 70 games of the team. He's out before the all star break. And the Mariners, every single one of their, their top nine, and mostly they're, what is it? Twelve of 13 guys have higher strikeout rates than last year and are off their season numbers from last year.

Anders Jorstad
And I think.

I think ten of twelve are below their projected WRC pluses for the season.

Evan James
Now, you can think whatever you want about Brent Brown, about the job he does, about his expertise, about this being a good or a bad idea, but I think we can all agree that the performance of the Mariners offense has been one that in season, out of season, somebody is going to get. Was going to get fired over this. Am I wrong?

Anders Jorstad
Like, so here's, you raise an interesting point, which is, you know, the Mariners created this position for him because they wanted him back so badly. This is a guy who, for what it's worth, was with Seattle back, you know, half a dozen years ago, and then in between was with, you know, the Dodgers and the Marlins. And because he was with the Dodgers, who are a very smart organization, then he thrived with the Marlins. You know, there was a lot of reason for optimism.

I think, that there was some confusion with, among the fans as to why the Mariners brought him in to do the role that they brought him in for, because it seemed like he was working directly with hitters on improving their swing down in Miami and in LA. But what the Mariners had him do more was kind of game strategy. So he was helping hitters break down kind of the pitching matchup of the day. It's like, okay, so here, you know, here's the guy we're facing. Here's how we should be attacking him. And also in a, in an at bat to at bat level. So, you know, if Mitch Hannaker strikes out, he goes into the dugout, he talks to brand Brown about the at bat, and maybe the next time he comes in, he's able to attack the pitcher better after breaking down the at bat. So that was kind of his, his supposed role as offensive coordinator, which, you know, to your point, you know, it didn't seem to be doing what the Mariners expected it expected of him. I think that based on what we heard from all the comments and, you know, you can read the divishes. Divishes piece on it, Daniel Kramer's piece on it. You know, Kate wrote a piece on it, too, obviously breaking it down and getting quotes from players and coaches. It doesn't seem like there was any big, like, political bombshell in the clubhouse, which is what I kind of expected. When I first saw the news, I was like, oh, he must have really pissed someone off, or there must have been some sort of altercation that went down that, you know, led to this.

But no, it just seemed like, you know, Scott basically said, I sometimes felt that his comments were too complex in the pregame, and it was confusing guys, basically.

And he didn't necessarily think it was a good fit. He's, you know, Scott emphasized that he and Brent Brown are still very close. You know, they were friendly, they as players when they were in the big leagues together.

So it's, it's very strange.

You know, obviously, it's strange timing for a team to, like, have a head roll, not only at this early in the season, but when they're leading the division.

I think that's what makes this so unusual.

Evan James
Like, how often I legitimately cannot recall a single time where a team leading the division almost 70 games in has fired a coach. Like, that's.

Anders Jorstad
I'm crazy. I'm sure that. I'm sure that there's precedent for it. I just. I'm not the right person to ask about that, but, yeah.

So I think that it's encouraging and discouraging for totally separate reasons. So let me start with the reason why I think it's discouraging.

This is an indictment of the play of the Mariners decision making at the top, and that is, I think, the way in which it is similar to the Lorena Martin situation. I think that's pretty much the only way it's similar, because there was obviously a lot more stuff going on with the Martin situation. Correct.

But creating a role for someone and then not really having it work out for that person or not really setting that person up for success in the case of Martin, obviously.

And I think that firing them two months into their new job that you not only created for them but also hyped up to the fans, you hyped up to the players as, like, this is a revolutionary thing we're doing to turn this lineup around.

That's a really bad look, like, so, okay, so what went wrong in the decision making process? Did you not find the right guy? Were you guys just too desperate to make a change happen that you didn't really think through how it was going to work, or was it just a matter of, hey, we tried something and it didn't work out. It could, you know, it could be something as simple as that? And this is why I think, you know, going into the positive of it, I applaud the Mariners for not being afraid to.

The sunk cost fallacy is where you say, oh, well, I paid so much money for this thing, I might as well just use it, even though it's not really helping me, and obviously that's not a good mindset to have. So I'm thankful that the Mariners are cutting their losses. Essentially, they're saying, hey, you know what? It didn't work out. We're going to make a change right now.

And optics be damned basically at that point, because I'm sure they knew how it was would look. So in that sense, I do applaud the Mariners for recognizing that it wasn't working and immediately making the change, because they could have just, like, waited out the whole season and done this in the off season. Right? Or they could have waited until toward the end of the season. But they, I think, recognize that even though they are in the lead, they are not comfortable with. With how things are going, especially from the lineup, which I'm very glad because we have seen this team before, be way too comfortable with being just good enough.

And so the Mariners were looking at the division lead and saying, you know what? This isn't good enough. You know, we're bottom five in pretty much every offensive category around baseball. We're bottom two in some, bottom one in a couple. You know, this is not something that we want to do. We know this team can be better. Evan, you and I talked about pre pod. This team has the easiest strength of schedule in the american league from here on out. So the opportunity for this team to really kind of put some ground between them and Houston and the Rangers is there for the taking. And them sweeping the angels right after the Brent Brown firing is, I think, a perfect example of them taking advantage of the situation in front of them.

One thing I want to be careful of is jumping to the conclusion that the brown firing was good because of how things went on the angel series. It is 100% for them. It is too soon for them to have implemented any meaningful change versus how things were going with Brent Brown. Right.

Evan James
They've scored before. They will score again. They didn't score because they fired Brent Brown.

Anders Jorstad
Right.

If this team's strikeout rate plummets by, like, five points in the next two months, then you can say, okay, now we see some tangible evidence that this maybe was.

Was more meaningful than we initially thought.

But, you know, in the end, I am thankful the mariners made the change, as I said. And I hope two things. One, I hope this doesn't discourage them from doing creative things if they think they're going to work.

But two, I hope this gives them pause on, like, let's make sure we do our homework.

And again, you know, for all I know, they did do their homework, and, like, sometimes it just doesn't work out. You know, the best laid plans sometimes fall ruin.

So I guess I shouldn't, you know, come out here without any knowledge and say that this obviously was. Was doomed from the start.

But those are kind of my thoughts on it. What. What do you think, Evan, besides what you've already said?

Evan James
I love all of that. I want to echo two things. One is you said you appreciate that the Mariners did something in firing Brant brown, even if it. Even if we don't know if it's going to work out, even if we're sure it wasn't the catalyst for them scoring this particular last couple of days. This weekend, they did something. I would say they did a few things. They demoted Luis a Rias. They had Mitch Garver catch. They've moved Mitch basically to a bench roll. Like, they've done a couple of things that indicate that they are. They are indeed as concerned about the offense as they darn well should be. The offense huffs win their 21st in WRC plus. They have been 21st in WRC plus basically all year. It's not. It's not getting better. We're definitely to a point where I'm watching them stagnate and I'm thinking like, okay, it's time to mix stuff up. Well, they did. They mixed stuff up.

So. So credit to them for trying new things. And then the flip side is that, and I'm really, really struggling with this personally, is that I believe in this team. I think this team is pretty darn good and is going to put the offense together in a way we haven't seen yet any minute. And I have been hoodwinked the last two years by this freaking team in this offense where they decided to be so bad for three, four months and then show up out of nowhere and win more than they had won almost the rest of the year in August, and the offense just lighted up and what was 17 game win streak, I forget 21. It's been a while, but like 16. But who's 16 game win streak back to back years. This team has made a fool out of the non believers come summer. So, yeah, I'm expecting it. I'm looking forward to it. I understand that when you look at the numbers and you compare them to last year, it's pre offensive breakout right now. So, like, are they ten points off where they were last year at this time, or are they ten points off where they finished last year? Those might be different things if you want to analyze it and be fair to Brent Brown. So to him, I'd say it sucks that this happened because it's entirely possible that they turned it on and everything seems fine by the end of the season. And he's just kind of like a novelty that happened and we all forgot about. And that's unfair to him because it probably never had as much to do with him as the firing made it look like in the first place.

Right. That's the disadvantage of scapegoating somebody is that, yeah, if he wasn't doing anything wrong or if he was doing things well, well, we don't have that anymore. But I agree with you that, like, they needed to make some moves. They needed to do something. They needed to try and get Mitch Garvers bat jump started. They needed to try and figure out how on earth they broke Julio so irreparably for the first eight weeks of the season. Like, as much as I don't like scapegoating people, I don't like firing hitting coaches. I think it's a waste of time.

I do think that the offense over the first two months of the season was a fireball offense. Would you agree with that?

Anders Jorstad
Yes, but I will say, and this is, you know, I think this is another reason why, to your point, it's kind of dangerous to do the whole pacing thing. Like, oh, they're pacing for this compared to last year because the last two previous seasons, the same thing happened. Right. So they were terrible at hitting in April both of the last two years. They were pretty crappy in May 2.

And so I think it's kind of dangerous because of what you pointed out where, like, they went on a crazy run two years ago where they won 16 in a row, and then they had last year, like, a historic august.

I don't think it's safe to expect those things. And for that reason, I'm glad that they have this division lead and that they're putting some. Some distance between them and Texas, but I'm also glad that. That they aren't comfortable, because I also think context is important. Right. The reason the Mariners are far up in the division is not because they're a better team, necessarily, than they were last year. It's because the division is terrible, at least to this point. Nobody else in the division has a 500 or above record right now, and only Texas has a positive run differential, which is recent because three days ago, nobody in the AL west had a positive run differential. So I think that we have to be. Obviously, I'm very excited about this team, and I'm very excited. This team is four games up the division. But I think that we have to be careful in, in realizing why that is. And the Mariners, I think, are rightfully doing that as well. They're not just saying, hey, we're comfortable with the fact that we're leading a vision. We know that we have some work to do.

Zach, welcome onto the show. We kind of broke down our thoughts.

We kind of broke down our thoughts on the brand firing already, but I don't know what your thoughts on that are. I'm sorry for, like, not even warming you up here. I'm just asking you for your takes on the hottest topic in mariners fandom. The last.

Zach Mason
No, that's why. That's why I did the Kool Aid man bit.

What are my thoughts? It's fun. I don't know what your thoughts are yet. I get to act like I get.

Anders Jorstad
To go fractions versions for the sake of the audience. And, Evan, you can clip this if you want to. The cliff notes version are basically that.

Zach Mason
No, no, I want to not know. I want to not know.

Anders Jorstad
Okay, great. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Zach Mason
I have no opinion on whether Brent Brown is good at his job or bad at his job. I find it very encouraging that the mariners are not satisfied with the performance of their hitters and are looking to make a change. I think if the.

This brass has been very hesitant to do things that are reactive or certainly things that appear to me to be reactive, and so the fact that one third of the way into the season, they would make a shake up like this and without papering it over as like a. Oh, he decided, you know, not a pretend resignation, like, he was fired. I think that is really indicative of something that is positive about keeping the foot on the gas, which is something I return to all the time. One of the.

What's the thing from inside out? The, like, core memories that, like. Oh, yeah, what's the phrase for that?

Anders Jorstad
I don't know, because I blocked out memories after crying six times through that movie.

Zach Mason
Sure. Yes. Well, in any event, people know what I'm talking about.

One of those memories for me, as it relates to sports is the 2014 NFC championship game, when the packers built that big lead and Mike McCarthy just took his foot off the gas and played so conservatively.

And Pete Carroll and the Seahawks had that incredible run of two point conversions and onside kicks and, you know, fake passes that were actually backed or fake kicks that were actually to John Ryan scoring a touchdown. You know, it was all sorts of, like, effort, chaos ball. Chaos ball. It was football chaos ball. That's exactly right. And, you know, that is just one of those. I know it's like a thing in sports to, like, always have your foot on the gas and not play too conservatively, but that was just a really big illustration of it for me that I think will resonate with a lot of listeners of this podcast. And to me, the brand Brown firing speaks to that desire from Depot and Hollander, and so I'm for it.

Evan James
Zach, I mentioned that that firing was the last of their moves. They actually did a couple of things. They demoted Luis Arias. They promoted Josh Rojas to more of a starting position, as well as Dylan Moore. They've moved Mitchell Hanniger back in the lineup and also shifted him to the bench. And they gave Mitch Garver a start at catcher to try and get the bat started. Do you think that, you know, you mentioned the team has been kind of unwilling before to make certain moves. Do you think they're displaying an agility we haven't seen before when it comes to solving this problem?

Zach Mason
Well, I think, and this is something we talked about with John on the last episode, those sorts of moves seem to me to be reflective of the type of roster they built, where it was dependent on having a lot of options that are available. So, like, not everything needs to work out and for that to be okay.

As I said then, like, the problem is, it's dependent on the pitching working. And on the offensive side, Julio, JP, and Cal playing like stars, and so far, the pitching has held up their end of the bargain. Julio, Cal, and JP haven't really, and that, I think, is some of the source of the offensive struggles. But otherwise, I certainly expected to see, and I think we talked about expecting to see in the first part of the season that we're going to try some things, and not all of them were going to work.

And so demoting a rias, moving Hanegar down the lineup, these are all things that I think are reflective of that process playing out. And I think this offense continues to have problems. I think the biggest problem is Julio and to a lesser extent, Cal and JP. But I'm relatively encouraged with the direction that they're headed in and the fact that they have worked through some of those problems and, like Rojas and Moore are getting more playing time.

Tie France seems to be turning it around.

Rayleigh's getting more playing time. All that seems like the process mostly working.

Anders Jorstad
One thing I'm curious about, in the interest of them making major changes to the offense, to try to kick start this thing sooner rather than later.

Do you foresee this as being a year similar to. I don't know if you guys. Oh, you guys probably almost certainly remember back in. Gosh, was this 18 when they acquired Dennard Spann in like May?

Do you think this is going to be another year where Jerry strikes, like, way early to try to get someone from outside the organization to help the offense?

Zach Mason
Well, I think it's important to remember that that happened in the context of Robinson canoes suspension.

They, like, they had the additional money to play with, and they needed to solve some specific problems that were unexpected, which isn't to say that I disagree with the idea that Jerry might strike early.

He does historically like to act early in the offseason.

When he went and got Carlos Santana in 2022, that was sort of a midseason move that came relatively early.

So maybe. I mean, there are holes to be there, there are gaps to be plugged, but I don't know that the Genard span Alex Cola may trade is, like, the example I would use for that.

Anders Jorstad
Interesting. Okay.

Zach Mason
I was thinking about him earlier today, actually.

Anders Jorstad
That's funny. I very rarely think of him, but.

Zach Mason
I was looking for this day in Mariners histories for the. For the. For the game preview, and I was like, oh, I wonder if this was like, Bernard's fans first start or something. And it wasn't, but. And it turned out incredible day in Mariners history. For those who don't read the game previews, who aren't into the game threads, June 2 is the day that the Mariners selected Ken Griffey junior in the draft. It's the day that Randy Johnson threw the Mariners first no hitter, and it's the day of the ten run comeback in San Diego in 2016.

Anders Jorstad
Oh, yes.

Zach Mason
Auspicious day. And in 2024, the day that they completed the sweep with the Anaheim Angels.

Anders Jorstad
Of course, lest we forget one thing you didn't mention, Evan, that I kind of want to talk about this player, and partially because I know Zach doesn't like this player, is Ryan Bliss, who has just been, like, a phenomenal ball of energy in these first couple of games up with the club.

I am very curious to see kind of how this goes going forward. It's, you know, the first couple of games, even class a looked good, and. And obviously that is. That is not kept. But something in me feels that. That there's a chance bliss is like this year's Jose Caballero, where he's just like a fun little spark plug and kind of plays a little bit above what we expected from him. That's kind of my. My hope for bliss. But I want to say to your point about, like, not letting the foot off the gas. Like, I was very impressed by him going from first to second on a fly out to center with like, a six run lead.

Zach Mason
Yes, absolutely. That was a great play. That was so heads up. I mean, that is, I think probably, like, you know, one in 100 players makes that, makes that choice.

Now, granted, probably only like 25 in 100 players have the speed to pull it off, but, you know, it was. It was a heads up play. I loved it.

I agree. I think Ryan bliss. You know, obviously, I am down on him as a player. I'm not going to rehash that whole thing, but there's potential for him to impact the game. As you said, as a spark plug. He's a great base runner, no question. That's just not debatable.

He's not just fast, he's good at running the bases, which are not always the same thing.

And I have liked that he is.

He doesn't look to be swinging for the fences, which is.

Anders Jorstad
Although he did today.

Zach Mason
He almost did today. You know, it's Griffin canning. Take your shot. Sure. But in general, his swings have been a little more designed for contact, it's looked to me than the old Ryan bliss that I was used to. And I think that's good because.

Anders Jorstad
You.

Zach Mason
Know, I think a contact hitter who walks a decent amount and runs like he does has a lower ceiling as a player, but also a much higher, or if he's able to actually make that contact.

And he has been walking a lot. I was chatting with Kate about this during the game today.

A lot of the walks that he's taken, pitches like completely uncompetitive pitches. I mean, they're pitching him like they're terrified of him, which is bizarre, not due to my, like, personal vendetta against Ryan Bliss, which is not how I would describe it, but just for humor's sake, but like, he's Ryan bliss. What are you so afraid of? He's a rookie. This is his first week. He's not a top 100 prospect or anything, but Kay was saying they think it's because he's so short. It gets in pitchers heads, the zone is smaller. And so I wonder about that as a rationale, because it's not as if the zone gets thinner, it just gets shorter, and there's a lot of pitches that are just way, way outside. Maybe it's psychological. This isn't a huge problem with Jose Altuve, but he's an interesting guy to pitch to. He chases so much anyway. You kind of have to be a little bit aggressive, and it's not like he has a weak zone. He just does everything incredibly well.

Stupid Jose Altuve. Anyway, the.

I'm more optimistic from what I've seen this week than I had been based on what I had seen of him in the minors.

Anders Jorstad
I think that I'm a little bit confused as to what his role long term is because we have Dylan Moore already and he's already a right hander. I thought for some reason that bliss was a switch hitter. Like classe is, but as a righty, it's kind of hard to find a spot for him long term because they have a Rias, they have more.

I guess Cabbie was a righty, too, so. I don't know.

Zach Mason
Well, when Polanco gets back, he's going to play again. It doesn't seem like this is destined to be a long stint.

Anders Jorstad
Yeah, he's probably the new haggerty, basically, in terms of where he fits in the grand scheme of things.

Zach Mason
Well, I'm thinking maybe there's a chance he starts getting some bats against lefties as a third baseman. They might stretch him. I know he's, like, much more. He's better at second base than at third base, but, like, that's the spot that's available for him. And it's not like you can move Blanca over to third base because his arm is a noodle.

Evan James
The real question is, when do we hear bliss is taking reps in the outfield? Well, no, it's a matter of time.

Zach Mason
That's what I was going to say. Is that, like, it pushes D more. It doesn't, like, move. Dylan Moore's playing time. It just moves him to the outfield as the righty that's shading Kenzone. And really with Hannah?

Anders Jorstad
Well, right now he's serving as the platoon buddy for Rojas also. So Moore's role kind of shifts with the tides.

Zach Mason
Well, exactly, because that's what Dylan Moore can do for you.

But I think right now they don't really have a right handed outfielder besides Hannaker and so.

And Kenzo and Rayleigh are both guys who you don't necessarily trust against lefties all that much. So I think it's not that it eats into Dylan Moore's time, it just moves what position he's playing.

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Evan James
You brought up a good point, though, about when Polanco is back. It sounds like bliss is probably destined for Tacoma. So in a medium to long term situation, at least for this year, he's probably not really that relevant. Like, you know, we're looking at, what, two weeks before Polanco is back. So his stint on the team's not now.

Anders Jorstad
But, like, I don't want to wish injury upon anyone, but, like, if Dylan Moore gets hurt, like Ryan Bliss, his time is all of a sudden guaranteed for however long Moore is at. You know, like, anything can happen that'll give bliss more time. And I would guess that, you know, this, this two week stretch or whatever isn't the only time that we see him this year.

So that cabbie, when Cabby came up, was not supposed to be up for very long, and he ended up being up for like basically the whole year.

Evan James
What do they do with a Rias in all of this? Because he sure seems like the odd man out.

Anders Jorstad
They non tender him in the winter. I don't know.

I, I don't, I don't.

Zach Mason
I hope he gets together in Tacoma.

Anders Jorstad
Yeah, I was never, I mean, I liked the idea of a Rias when they acquired him, but once I heard the whole, like, spring training, they weren't impressed with this conditioning. He, they didn't think he was showing a lot of effort. I was like, that's going to be a big problem with this organization.

And he just wasn't impressing in the first, you know, month. I kind of think that unless he really tears it up at Tacoma, I don't know how much of a role there is for him this year, which is fine because he isn't good or hasn't been good, at least this year.

Evan James
It's like what Jack said about optionality. Like it matters that somebody's good. Not specifically him or anybody specifically. And, you know, if Rojas is playing whatever. Right?

Zach Mason
Yeah, no, I was just going to say, like, he has options. You can keep him in the organization. He's the kind of, he's a good enough player to be in the organization should the need arise for him to play. And otherwise, like, it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal that it's not working out that well.

Anders Jorstad
Zach, this just goes back to something you said both to me in private and then later on the podcast, but just, like, continues to haunt me and follow me around as I go anywhere, which is that the Mariners have a bunch of players that Jerry Depot would have acquired via trade in the. In the middle of the season anyway. And every time I'm like, oh, there's another guy that. That fits that well, you know, like, Luke Raley is a poster child for that. Like, people are saying, let's go get Jock Peterson. I'm like, we have Jock Peterson. His name is Luke Raley.

Zach Mason
Yeah. That is not the difference maker.

Anders Jorstad
Luis a Rias. If he was like, actually, Luis Aurias is, I think, an example of such a player as well. You know, the idea of Luis Aureus is certainly that kind player. That's like Jake Lamb, basically.

I just.

Zach Mason
Good Luis Aurias is better than good Jake Lamb. But I take your point.

Anders Jorstad
It's fair.

Here's something that I think we don't talk about enough, and that can't possibly be right. I was gonna say maybe we do talk about it enough. Something I don't consider enough, which is the catching situation.

I don't know if you guys knew that Cal Rawley caught every single game this last week.

Evan James
Oh, yeah.

Anders Jorstad
We did not get a single day off. Sebi came in, like, an inning yesterday during the blowout. Like, are they. That's, I think, something that they need to address.

Evan James
Well, technically, he didn't start every game. He caught every game, but he didn't start every game because they had Mitch Garver in there for one game. So that's. That's the asterisk on this.

Anders Jorstad
That's true, but I think he dh that game anyway.

Did he?

Evan James
Oh, my God.

Anders Jorstad
Point being, I. Someone needs to get Kyra Ali a break, and Harry Ford can't become ready soon enough for any of this.

So I'm very concerned for our friend Cal. By the way, an aside, I think that the big dumper seat cushion for father's Day is, like, maybe one of the best promotion ideas the marriage has ever had.

Zach Mason
Absolute front runner for the. Looking for the best promotion, no question about it.

Anders Jorstad
But. Sorry, I just want to mention that as an aside, I'm very concerned for our boy.

Evan James
Let's do two things, then we'll wrap for today. So I want to give dirt an option to talk about the minors if he wants. But the one thing I do want to talk about before we get to that is the Brian Woo situation of yesterday, because there was a lot of Twitter chatter about the Mariners pulling Brian Wu at six innings, 66 pitches.

There were quotes after the fact about he had missed his bullpen that given week he had been sore, hadn't been able to quite make it all the way back to physical strength after his previous start out in Texas. Um, there's just a lot of consternation over that, and it's been kind of a contentious point with the fan base, really, the whole season of them pulling starters early, you know, in quotes. And my opinion is that when you have a guy who is struggling to be at full health giving you six shutout innings on 66 pitches, you do backflips, you celebrate, because that is not a problem, that is a solution. And Brian Wu, in the five starts that he's been here, has looked like he legitimately might have the best stuff on the team. And that's freaky because the Mariners pitchers have some very good stuff. Bryce Miller has crazy stuff, Luis Castillo is crazy stuff. Everybody knows about George Kirby, and yet Brian Woo's fastball looks like it might be one of the hardest things for major league hitters to pick up. I watched him blow it by Juan Soto and Aaron Judge, so I'm pretty sure it's actually good. Like, that's a good, good case test. And so what do you guys think of this whole, especially Scott's comments about not playing necessarily for any given game, but trying to win the AL west and having these guys fresh all the way into September and beyond? Because I am on board with this, but there are other people who are not and would like to see them push the starters a little bit harder.

What do you guys think?

Zach Mason
I would like everybody who is opposed to the way that the Mariners have been managing their rotation to, first of all, take a look at how hard they have pushed their starters historically? Last year, all five of those guys set career highs and innings pitched.

I would like them to consider that the bullpen has thrown the fewest pitches in major League Baseball. I would like them to consider that the Mariners have had remarkable pitching health, which is so often attributed to lucky, and perhaps wonder whether the Mariners are actually doing something to cause that health. And if it gets to be September, look at how many starts are made by these guys and ask yourself whether you would prefer an extra cumulative, I don't know, 20 innings over the course of a season versus having to deal with 20 innings from Brian Woo over the course of the season versus having to deal with 15 more starts from Emerson Hancock.

66 pitches from Brian Wu is much better than 80 pitches from Emerson Hancock.

If this is all that Brian woo can do, according to the people who know the situation the best and much better than we do, much better than anybody listening does, much better than anybody complaining on the Internet does, unless you.

Anders Jorstad
Brian Woo, were listening, in which case he does know better.

Zach Mason
Well, does he?

You cannot get to that position without being, like, a mega competitor who does not want to be taken out of the game. You have to want it that bad in order to get through the grind and rise above the competition.

It's the organization that I think has the better information and also are medical experts, which Brian Wu seems like a smart guy, but is not.

This discourse just seems so dumb to me. Also, it came out that Brian Wu had missed his bullpen, so he was, like, behind already. I just.

Evan James
This is.

Zach Mason
This is oldsterdom run amok.

Anders Jorstad
I'm about to be a hypocrite and say that people are just looking for things to complain about, which is true. But also, I've already complained about, like, three different things on this podcast.

Evan James
Hey, it's our job to complain and to talk about things that we complain about professionally.

Anders Jorstad
Complain. That's right.

No, I think that this is, like, one of the most ridiculous things to be upset about, because all of Zach's points are pretty much exactly what I was thinking as well.

Divish. Like, Divich was on a heater on Twitter about this, but basically pointing out the Mariner starters have thrown more innings than any other team in baseball, which Zach basically said. You said about the bullpen, which is kind of the same thing. Um, yeah. If there's one thing I trust the Mariners with carte blanche, it's pretty much pitching health, because they've had so few tjs, they've had so few guys miss significant time. And, like, Brian Wu is a guy whose health has been shaky all season. So I kind of like, if they say, hey, let's ease off the gas, let's ease off the gas.

So that's. I agree. I'm happy with how effective he's been. Like, we basically have our dream, which is five aces. It's, like, actually happening, which is frickin amazing.

And they're all, like, performing pretty well. So I'm very excited about how this pitching is going, and as long as you can keep all these guys healthy and together, I'm happy with it.

I do want to say one other thing. I don't know if this was ever talked about. But, like, Gilbert getting pulled early in Washington was, I know, a big deal.

Me and Zach were there and we were kind of confused because he was at like, I think, not even 80 pitches, but it, like, Zach, and I could tell you it was really fricking hot there and, and Scott said it was really frickin hot there, and Logan was getting winded. So again, Scott knows best, the training staff knows best, and as long as it keeps these guys healthy and it's more important, they're pitching in September and October, hopefully then in May anyway.

Zach Mason
Yeah. Yeah. Logan Gilbert is a sturdier man, a younger man, and a man who grew up in Florida. I am a delicate flower, but, oh, my God, it was so hot.

Anders Jorstad
It was really hot.

Evan James
The thing to remember with Brian Wu, too, when it comes to, like, the amount of volume he's going to pitch, is that he was a closer in college. He made it to the major leagues basically in two years. In between a surgery where he wasn't pitching. He threw more last year than he had thrown, basically, as a professional in his entire life up until that point. And he's on pace to, again, lap that this season, basically. So, like, we need to be patient. I understand. Everybody wants, doesn't want to hear the starters are getting pulled and are sore. And, you know, even like a couple of weeks ago, Bryce Miller, when Mitch Garver hit that walk off, he said he didn't see it because he was in, in the medical tank getting his arm worked on. Like, the Mariners have shown an aptitude for managing these guys, throwing these pitches this volume, and I'm inclined to trust them. And again, he threw six shutdown innings on 66 pitches. Like, what are we talking about? You know, what are, what are we talking about? That's awesome. There are so many teams who, that would legitimately make him their top one or two pitchers. Like, he's that good. So if this is all Brian Wu can give us, his six shutout, I'm inclined to let him as much as, as much as he can go out there, and I will feel better when there isn't any whispers about him being sore or behind or missing bullpens. But you know what? Baseball is hard. So we're, right now we're rolling with it. The Mariners are doing everything they can to maintain this lead, and they swept today.

They won. So it's like I'm, I'm not going to have a hard time with most of what they've done so far, given the way they've actually played right? Like, and I think that's where ultimately, I'm off the page with the Doomers, is that I think this is going pretty well. Right? Like, I'm having fun. The Mariners are seven games up today. This is good, right? Are you guys having fun? I'm having fun.

Zach Mason
I'm having a lot fun now.

Anders Jorstad
Like, if you. If you can't have fun as a baseball fan. Yeah. Don't be a baseball fan. If you're not having fun, don't do the thing. Okay?

Evan James
Oh, I'm not the one you have to tell that. But let's. Let's pivot and do one final thing, which is, ders, I know that Zach and I don't have as much of an opinion because we talked about it last week, but I know you are dying to talk some prospects. We talked Harry Ford last week. We talked Cole Young. We talked the trade options. I know you listen to that episode. Did you have any response to our potential block guys, our guys that I said we would keep? And what do you think of Harry Ford and double a right now?

Anders Jorstad
Okay. I want to say one thing about Harry forward, which is that I think everyone is taking, like, this one comment or maybe two comments. I think he said it multiple times, but it was one comment from Ryan Divish and, like, blowing it way out of the water, which was in spring training. Divish, I think, said on this podcast that he felt like Harry Ford was likely to be traded, and he said it on his own podcast, but then he later said, like, last week, he clarified he was like, I just want everyone to know, like, for the record.

Evan James
Record.

Anders Jorstad
You know, when I said that, I meant he was the most likely of everyone, but that doesn't mean. I think it's like a shoe in that he's going to be traded. And I think that the energy around Harry Ford is super weird among the fan base because I think everyone's just, like, decided that he's not going to be a mariner, which is just, like, a weird mentality to have. Also unfair to Harry Ford because, like, he's, like, a great. Not just because he's a great guy and a great player, but, like, the fans are giving up on him already, and it's, like, not even his fault, which kind of sucks. Like, I would be sad if I was Harry Ford hearing that. Like, the whole, like, all Seattle fans have determined that I'm not a part of the club anymore because they have stars in their eyes for Luis, Robert, or whatever.

Zach Mason
He's got all of England, though.

Anders Jorstad
And they'll never leave him, no matter what he plays on. Yes, this is true. But that said, like, harry Ford is, like, the kind of guy this organization, like, would. Would kill for, right. In terms of his personality, in terms of what he brings on the field. You know, he is a guy who does control the zone. He's got very good plate approach. He's a. He's a catcher who. Who has, like, a good offensive skill set. We know how that. How hard that is to find.

He's athletic. He could do all sorts of things in the field, you know, and to the point of, like, the off the field stuff, he's a great teammate, you know, like, he's got great leadership qualities. He's very, you know, positive.

Zach Mason
I think, all the time about his. The story about him making sure that everybody in Modesto could get to the field when they were in the first year that the organizations were providing housing to the minor leaguers, and sometimes players were staying pretty far away. And it's not like Modesto has public transit, and not all of these guys had cars, and Harry Ford just really took charge of that situation. That's great, dude.

Anders Jorstad
Yeah. The other thing that people often bring up is the birthday cake thing, where he would bring a birthday cake to the ballpark every time it was one of his teammates birthdays, which is, like, super cool.

Zach Mason
I think that's something we can all do, bring a birthday cake on someone's birthday.

Anders Jorstad
It's true.

One thing that people are saying about him is, well, he plays catcher, and Kyle Rai is the catcher. There's, like, there's no way to solve that problem, but there's a million ways to solve that problem, and I think it's kind of weird that people have drawn a conclusion that, like, well, because Cal Rawley's here, then Harry Ford can't be here, which is just not true. There's so many different things they could do to change that, starting with giving.

Evan James
Cal an actual day off.

Anders Jorstad
So that's. That's one thing, right? Yeah. Let's. Let's rest Cal's knees a little bit. But. But anyway, Harry Ford's a guy I really like. I hope they don't trade him again. If they trade him for the right player, I will understand. I'm not going to come on this podcast and be, like, super upset. If they trade him for Luis Rubert or someone of equivalent performance or potential performance, I'll be very excited, but I will be bummed. He's a guy who I really like, and I really hope that he gets to be a mariner, because I think that Mariners fans are just really going to like him, and I think that we are missing out on a potential opportunity for a fan favorite player. So that's what I want to say about that.

There is another prospect I want to talk about really quickly, Evan, if that's okay, which is Logan Evans.

This is a guy who I think a lot of Mariners fans are now.

Evan James
Familiar with, the top 100 prospects specifically.

Anders Jorstad
I was going to mention that, yes, as of this week, he is now a Baseball America top 100 prospect.

Here's some things about this, and I tweeted about this. I looked through all the top 100 prospects and compared him against his, his draft peers of ten months ago. Mind you, ten months ago, he was drafted.

He is ranked 19th among 2023 draftees. So in theory, they're basically saying like, hey, if, like, they could do a redraft at this point, he would be a first rounder in terms of, in terms of his value. The Mariners got him in the 12th round and underpaid him on slot because he was a senior sign. So this is the guy who, like, the Mariners basically just, just plucked out of thin air like they did. It's like what they did with Brian Wu and Bryce Miller, but even more impressive because it was like, way later in the draft than those two guys even were. Because in theory, you know, when they picked Bryce Miller and Brian Wu, you know, the fourth and the 6th rounds are like, not the first round, but those are still guys who, like, in theory, they were worried someone else was going to take him. With Logan Evans pick, it's possible nobody else was even looking at it. And the Mariners have taken him, and now he's a top 100 prospect, and he's throwing like 100 miles an hour and he's in double a ten months after being drafted out of Pittsburgh, where he was like a terrible reliever for them, it's just like, this is maybe to me, the most impressive Mariners have done pitching development wise, in a long list of things they've done.

Zach Mason
The 2023 draft has a chance to be, like, organization altering for the Mariners.

Anders Jorstad
Yes.

Zach Mason
I mean, you got those top three guys with Emerson, Farmello, and Pete, but then Ben Williamson was also an underslock guy in the second round to say money in order to sign all three of those guys, and he is awesome.

Evan James
He legitimately might be the Mariners next prospect call up. Like, I'm not kidding.

Zach Mason
He seems so advanced for the level. Yeah, I.

Anders Jorstad
He's a really good defensive third baseman, too, which is something that they really, like, kind of miss, I think, at this point, not to mention Aidan Smith, their fourth rounder.

Zach Mason
Smith. Yeah.

Anders Jorstad
Who's matching Farmello basically stat for stat right now. And Farmello is a guy who's also a top 100 prospect at this point.

And your, your guy Brock Rodden was in that draft. He's, he's like, tearing it.

Zach Mason
He needs a promotion. He's, he's playing above his level.

Anders Jorstad
So all this is to say, like, it is, it has been a phenomenal thing. Here's another thing. If you want to get more excited about prospects, I have been looking at some national prospect writers who think that Colt Emerson has a very good chance to be the next number one prospect in baby baseball.

So if that happens, like, I will be obviously eating a lot of crow because I came on this podcast and other places and was like, I am very upset with that pick. And he could be like, it's looking, you know, if he's number one prospect, I think that the comps will be like, Gunnar Henderson kind of, kind of player.

So I'm very excited for him.

Zach Mason
Can I read you some names in the 2019 fan graphs? Top one. Top 20 prospects.

Anders Jorstad
Go ahead.

Zach Mason
Forest Whitley.

Victor Robles.

Anders Jorstad
Why are you doing this?

Zach Mason
Nick Sanzel.

Anders Jorstad
Why?

Zach Mason
Joe Adele. Taylor. Tramiel Keston Hera. Brendan McKay.

Akiba Ruiz.

Sixo Sanchez. Carter Kieboom. Christian Pash. It's, you know, I don't want anybody getting too excited.

Anders Jorstad
I like Christian Pasha. He was a fun guy.

Zach Mason
I'm sure he still is a fun guy in the Atlantic league or whatever.

Anders Jorstad
What you're saying is true.

You're right to kind of bring me down a peg because I am getting a little bit over my skis on these guys. It is very exciting.

But I think that what you are saying is the reason why they're going to end up trading three or four of these guys this summer and get some really good players back for them.

Zach Mason
That's exactly it. Everything is going as well as you would want it to go.

But, yeah, I mean, what did I just read, like half of the top 20 as not contributors? Victor Robles just got released, didn't he?

Anders Jorstad
Hey, Joe, Adele had a grand slam a couple of games ago. Put some respect on that man's name.

Zach Mason
He did. He did have grand slam a couple of games ago. I was there for that.

Evan James
I talked about the Mariners trading for him and got rebuffed pretty hard. Admittedly, my proposal was. First proposal was bad.

Zach Mason
No, here's why your proposal is bad.

It's because there is one team that Jerry depot.

Evan James
Yes.

Zach Mason
The most manic trader in baseball has never done a transaction with. It is the Anaheim Angels, and I think we can all guess why that is, given their history.

Evan James
You don't deal with the good thing.

Anders Jorstad
It's a good thing that outside of Taylor Ward, they don't have anybody worth trading for at this point anyway.

Zach Mason
So I think Luis Vern Heefa would be a, a great solution to a lot of Mariners problems. But I digress.

Evan James
I would take Luis Ren Heifeau, I would take Joe Adele. Not for Cole young like I originally pitched, but that was when he had a 180 WRC plus on the season. You know, what do you, what do you want? And your point is correct, though, Zach, that prospects are an idea, right? Like, prospects are a theory, an ethereal concept, and until they have played in the major leagues and achieved success in, it's all, it's all fun, but it's just like, it's wish casting, and we've been here before where the Mariners have had incredible, especially offensive prospects that have not panned out. Keep in mind that Julio and Jared were one and two or two and three, depending on how you looked at it several years ago, and neither of them have really lived up to that exact billing. So it's tough, and. But I would absolutely look at some of those guys further down in the system to improve the team at the deadline, and I think that the wonderful thing about being this far out in front despite not playing very well, is it makes that decision easy. Like, we don't have to worry about gaining ground. We don't have to worry about who's in front of us. Like, we're out there. All they need to do is get this offense in decent shape.

Anders Jorstad
I think one thing I want to say real quick to the prospect situation is that I, to be clear, I do think it's to this team's benefit to trade some of those guys because you basically, you don't want what's basically happened at Baltimore to happen to the Mariners, where they, they basically, like, hung on to every single prospect they liked with a couple of very minor exceptions, and now they just have a million guys between AAA and the big leagues nowhere to play them. Yeah, they're basically just, like, not doing anything for anyone because they could have traded some of those players in for pieces that would help them.

Zach Mason
Yeah. If they, I mean, Corbin Burns probably wasn't available at the deadline last year the way he was in the offseason, but, like, like, if they make that trade for a front lot for an ace at the deadline last year. Like, they probably stand a much better chance of beating the Rangers in the alts. And after that, who knows? Because that's where players like frontline pitchers make the biggest differences in the short series.

Anders Jorstad
Yep. So I do think that they will trade, you know, they're going to trade someone that, that I like, that everyone likes. Like, they could trade someone that, like, people think of as untouchable, but it's just a decent track record at this point of who they've traded away.

Zach Mason
Yeah. I mean, Noelve seemed perhaps more on the block than a guy who was that well regarded usually would in this kind of organization, but, you know, was really tough to give up, especially in combination with Edwin Arroyo. But it was, I think I said this recently, but, like, it was something that made sense for the 2022 team and it really looks like making a trade of that impact, which always really, really hurts.

It's going to make sense for the 2024 team.

Ryan
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Evan James
Absolutely. And they need it. They need it real bad. This offense is pretty stinky most every night and it's been really nice, this sweep, feeling like they can hit like a normal team.

But I think we all agree that they need somebody. They need a bat somewhere, and that's including some progression from the people who are already here as well, if they're going to go a distance. And I think we all see a playoff team here, but can they win in the playoffs? Well, that's a very different question, and I think that this offense could be their Achilles heel if they get there. But one step at a time, right? Let's just, let's just get there. Let's win the west first.

Anders Jorstad
I do think it's kind of a shame that, like, Juan Soto isn't on the, isn't in Washington on the block now because they currently have the farm to compete with what the Padres gave up for that. But that said, you know, I don't think there's a player of that caliber up, but, like, if someone like that goes on the block, you know, Boba Shet maybe is an example. Like, there are a few teams who can outbid the Mariners if they're willing to part with the, part with the pieces for them. So that's an exciting thing to think about.

Evan James
Anything else for today, guys? Zach, you came in late. Any, any pressing thoughts you want to get off on this Mariner sweep day?

Zach Mason
Yeah, I just feel like there is a decent amount of, you know, everybody, Mariners fans love beating the Angels. They are the most loved to hate team, but everybody kind of recognizes that the 2024 Angels are the 2024 Angels, and I feel like that is doing something to discount what the Mariners just accomplished over the past three days, including what the offense just accomplished. And there's a nugget of truth behind that. But I also just don't want people to forget everybody gets to play these bad teams, and the Mariners really have not gotten that opportunity much this year. They had the Colorado Series, which they took two of three of, but it was weird, right? It was a double header on a game in the snow. It wasn't like, it was like a real stats padding kind of opportunity.

And other than that, the teams that you would have expected to be bad have been playing better than you would think. When the Royals, the A's, the Mariners have not gotten their series against the Marlins, their series against the Pirates, their series against this was their first against the Angels. They haven't gotten to play the White Sox. Right. Like, everybody gets to do that, and I think it doesn't make it illegitimate. So just keep that in mind as you are discounting the Sweden.

Evan James
Any response, stars or. No?

Anders Jorstad
No, I think that's. That's exactly right. And to my point earlier, they have a very easy schedule compared to the rest of the league here on out. So they're going to play a lot of these little cream puff teams and let's hope that they can continue to do what they did this series and.

Zach Mason
Have a disproportionate number of days off, too. Right? Like they're in the middle of 43 games in 45 days.

That's a quarter of the season. And the upshot of that is that, like on the other side of that, they will have more opportunities for rest. So.

Which is another thing about pulling Brian Wu. They're playing 17 in a row and yeah, where they're playing 43 of 45. Good lord, guys.

Evan James
Just get there right now. Just get there. Just get to the finish line. Get to the all star break again, like you said, durst, they have a pretty easy schedule the rest of the way up until the all star break at least, and then further out from there. But we could be looking at a team that has a 1215 game, 1215 games above 500, and has a really sizable lead about that time. Like that's. That's exactly what we want to be talking about. The prospects taken off in the miners so we have something to trade and the team being in first place out comfortably with a nice lead. And so we can add to the team and feel like they're just going to take it from there. This is good. This is good. These are the good times, right? The good times. Shout out to our sponsor, McDougal bats. The Mariners got their offense back this weekend and you can too with McDougal bat. Use the code goems at checkout for 20% off. We get a little kickback. We love that. Everybody here loves getting paid and. Go Mariners. We'll be back next week and I know we got to do an episode with Kate. Kate is very busy these days. She is at many of the home games doing actual reporting like. Like a real reporter. So she gets a break from the podcast whenever she needs. She's been giving us great coverage. We do want to get our thoughts on the Brent Brown situation, given that she is so close to the team. So we will get back with her as soon as possible.

Till next time, go Mariners. First place in the american league west. Let's go.

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Brown Out - Is The Offensive Explosion Real? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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2: Player Focus - Ty France

3: Coaching Changes

4: Broader Team Dynamics

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