And For My Last Trick - Victor Robles? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

Ryan
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Kate Preusser
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Ryan
Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

Kate Preusser
Laundry.

Ooh, a book club, computer solitaire. Huh?

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John Truepen
Hello and welcome.

Thank you for meeting us at the Mitt. My name is John Truepen.

This is the meet at the Mitt podcast brought to you by the people at lookout landing.

Not yet brought to you by Vox Media's AI partnerships, but soon, but yeah, who knows? Apparently. But certainly not us. But until. Until otherwise informed, this will be 100% organic.

The takes are farm to table, directly from us to you.

And bringing us to this table, we have Evan James, our audio engineer. Evan, how are you? How goes your farm?

Evan James
You know, my farm is growing. The chickens are integrating right now, which means we have the young ones. We're spending time getting them to meet the old ones, and it's a dogfight out there every day, I'll tell you that much.

They're a rough bunch, but they're getting along a little bit better.

But to your point about the AI, I have to know what Kate thinks about classic lookout landing being used to train the robots because I had a good laugh about it.

Kate Preusser
I hope everyone has read my I rarely shill for myself, but I'm going to say I hope everyone reads my Luke Rayleigh article. I'm very proud of it.

I think it is chaotic and weird in a way that is reflective of its subject matter. But as I was typing it up, I was particularly delighted to think of all these words and phrases going into AI and, you know, hopefully breaking it.

John Truepen
Yeah, well. Kate Prusser lookout landing.com managing editor what would you say is your most, what would you say is your, like, favorite historical article that you can think of having written just in the years?

Kate Preusser
Oh gosh.

John Truepen
Whether it was yours or even just someone else's, obviously this is not expecting an encyclopedic knowledge of something that has, I think Ders might have said there are like 4 million links. There's some outrageous number of posts and articles and things that can be linked to at this point connected to lookout landing. So we've been doing this for a while, and before that, people were doing this for a while. So we're fortunate to have quite a.

Kate Preusser
Repository, and a large part of that repository is basically nonsense.

I'm not gonna pick a favorite and not going to do so without, like, really being able to think in depth. But I will say as far as just like, things that I'm delighted to have put on Beyonce's Internet for AI to become befuddled on. Probably one of my very first pieces about Jonathan Papelbon written in like this. Oh, the meta voice, the papa, the pap. Don't hassle the pap.

Just, that is full of weird stuff. Why Jonathan Papelbon thinks your team sucks, I think, which I would like to point out I did well before knowing about, like, the Deadspin, why your team sucks. Like, it was, that was, that was just. I love to write about things that suck and hating things and reveling.

I think about that a lot. Like, I write really well about things that are weird or things that I hate. Like, those things really inspire a different level of, yeah, I don't know.

The beautiful can be beautiful on its own. Give me the weird and the disastrous that is. That's what I like to write about. So, yeah, anything like that is probably.

I just, I like to think about feeding all of that into AI, which in my mind looks like a supercomputer from like the 1970s. I know that that's not actually what it is, but I like to just have this mental image of that and then just having it slowly eat itself from the inside. After being forced to read a lot of words about Luke Rayleigh's running style.

Evan James
You think that the AI is going to enter rampancy after reading Jeff Sullivan posts and then trying to comprehend Luke Braley as the Internet's adult son? Yeah, I could definitely see, yeah, I.

Kate Preusser
Think probably, if it's going chronologically, Jeff will totally. We're being honest. Like, Jeff will break it long before anything.

Long before it gets to any of our tenure, any post Jeff tenure, for sure.

Evan James
I just can't imagine any kind of automated system trying to articulate the sense of humor that lookout landing posts with, because lookout landing has a pretty specific cadence and basically has forever, and it's going to whiff on all of that context. So it might be just lying about the Mariners in the future because we fed it bad information. And for that, you're welcome.

Kate Preusser
There are already these aggregators that take our articles and like, kind of spit them back out in like AI style, which is really gross because you look at it and you like, you can see the bones of it. But I like, I pride myself on the fact that ours are like, less able to be translated. Like, what comes out is definitely gobbledygook after the, you know, they're. They're so far away originally from the thing they're supposed to. They are uncopyable. And yeah, I think that that is humor. Writing in general is so interesting to me. It's so hard to write funny, and I do think you can get better at it, but kind of you are good at it or you're not. Like. But a lot of that is, how do I take something that is funny in my head and get it down so that visually it is still funny? It is such an art form, and there's absolutely no way that AI is ever going to get it right without just unintentionally funny being funny bad.

So, yeah, I don't believe that AI can write humor because.

Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

At that point, I guess I will give it up and just go live in the woods somewhere because I can't write.

John Truepen
Finally, you'll have time to do your laundry. Because you won't have to do laundry and the dishes.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, laundry and the dishes. That is the best thing that's ever been said about AI's. I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so I have time to art and write, not to art and write for me. So I have time for laundry edition.

That is the perfect summation of AI.

Anyway, keep clicking on lookout landing.com. please.

Not, not any other site.

Ryan
Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring.

Kate Preusser
Laundry.

Oh, a book club, computer solitaire. Huh?

Ryan
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John Truepen
Well, I wanted to sort of, I want to get into the, some of the moves that the team has made here, but I do think that I hate to do this because I don't really want to ever give credit to Bill James on something and in this day and age.

But there was something, you know, that you mentioned in there about this sort of, you know, beautiful things are beautiful on their own, and horrific things have their own sort of fascinating beauty that, you know, you can endlessly pick at as we write about them or talk about them.

And I think Bill James was, had something that maybe it was an original thought, maybe it wasn't about, you know, you get used to being, you know, 100 loss team. You get used to it. And you're not really like, you know, you might be ad frustrated broadly, but you're not agitated. Generally a really good team. You know, yes, losses are frustrating, but like, you know, they're still really good. But that like around 500 team, like every 24 hours is just a huge emotional swing.

And it's exhausting and exasperating like that is the most volatile place for a fan base to be and probably to some degree, a clubhouse.

And I just was thinking about that, especially in the context of what you said, Kate, around the Mariners have largely built 500 rosters for the past, you know, nearly decade, or frankly, decade at this point.

You know, there have been.

There was one year where the Mariners were on purpose bad, essentially, and played a full season, and then there was another year, you know, 2020, where they were on purpose bad, but because they only had a 60 game season, and frankly, they were only five games under 500. Wasn't as rough. And, you know, other stuff was happening.

Evan James
Kyle Lewis was fun.

John Truepen
Yeah, right. Other stuff that season, I could have imagined being excruciating on a full.

Kate Preusser
Right, right.

John Truepen
But because it was short, I think the Mariners were a big beneficiary, and.

Kate Preusser
Like, mostly we were all just so happy to have baseball and use it as a distraction from the constant, endless horrors of existence.

John Truepen
Yes, because of the horrors.

Kate Preusser
Yes, because of the horrors.

We were very gentle with the baseball that year in a way that I feel like. I feel like every recap that I wrote that year, even when they were losses, I was just like. But thank you, sir. And may I have another?

John Truepen
Right, exactly. Yeah. Watching. I mean, the highlight of that season was a game that absolutely should not have been being played.

Kate Preusser
Yes.

John Truepen
Where they.

Evan James
Smoked a pack in the outfield. Exactly.

John Truepen
Where you could just, like, look outdoors and the ache, you know, the AQI was just saying. Just flashing. No.

You know, it's like when you pass, like, one of the speed things and you get beyond, like, five or 10. Just slow down, stop baseball.

Evan James
It was fun that we recreated that this year with the car accident in Seattle because there was the Smokey day. Do you guys remember that? That was back in April.

John Truepen
Yeah, yeah. And I think. I mean, I actually don't know if the Seattle broadcast touched on it. I know the other team broadcast just panned over to the giant. I mean, it's not funny, but, like, the gigantic smoking crash.

Kate Preusser
Oh, I didn't.

John Truepen
Yeah.

Kate Preusser
Oh. Wasn't aware.

John Truepen
It was, like, right outside the stadium.

Kate Preusser
Oh, yeah.

John Truepen
Yes.

Evan James
It was very on fire. Ten out of ten out of ten on fire.

John Truepen
Yes, yes. Ten alarm fire.

We've added more alarms, uh, to. To wrap it back around, though. That's not. I mean, certainly the Mariners have kind of played 500 e for a good chunk of this year, but this recent stretch, combined with how abysmal or wholly mediocre the Rangers and Astros have been, and the fact that the Mariners beat the breaks off the Astros recently and. And frankly, have, I think, have a winning record thus far. I don't. I can't recall exactly against the Rangers, but I think have a winning record against the Rangers.

They're in really good shape.

Just in terms of, you know, this is the highest, I think they're playoff odds.

Not necessarily playoff odds. They've had higher playoff odds, but this is the highest there, like, division winning odds have been since, I want to say, 2014. It might actually be. I think it's. It's. It's certainly quite some time, and it's the longest. It's the latest in the season. They've had a division lead.

Kate Preusser
It's the latest in the season. They've been in first place since 2003.

John Truepen
Right.

Which is 20 years.

Kate Preusser
21 years, I guess. Old enough to drink.

Evan James
We have fans listening who are not that old. Like, I'm a hundred percent sure.

Kate Preusser
Oh, yeah.

They have never seen this in their lives.

John Truepen
Yeah. Yeah. You. You needed a c. You need multiple CD Roms to play to boot up. Triple play baseball so that you could envision a world where the Mariners were.

We're not a juggernaut, but. So I guess what I'm wrapping around to here is this last probably two weeks has been the least stressful Mariners stretch, at least since 2022, where they were right at the end.

To me. To me, it has been the least stressful just because.

Yeah.

This is my perspective. Yes, you're right.

Kate Preusser
You are entitled to your opinion. Please lay it on me.

John Truepen
Well, it just.

Their play has been better. Not impeccable, but better.

And even though they've still been doing some of the frustrating things that they were losing games for earlier in the season, they have either been winning games or the teams around them that. That matter for their playoff odds have just continued to spin their wheels.

You know, Houston has cooled off.

They've had a lousy stretch, even regardless of the Mariners. Again, it just has felt a little bit more like, well, I would love it if they would really put it all together like they did, you know, this weekend against the Angels more often.

But also. Yeah, I just checked. Oh, Texas lost again. Oh, well, Houston's not really catching up much, so I guess it has been a peculiar state of affairs that I am not accustomed to in being a Mariners fan, really, at all, of not being quite as live and die with each game as I think I've felt like I've needed to be for roughly the last decade.

And that's.

That. That's been strange. I don't know. That'll last. But that's. That's where I've been at.

Evan James
Here's where I agree with.

We are so accustomed to our best being second best in the division at best that it's very peculiar that we have no competition. It feels like we're being hoodwinked a little bit. I'm waiting for the Astros to crawl out from under my bed like the monster that I was sleeping on, but they look a little decrepit, honestly. That was not a great series. They played against us, the Angels. Oh, my. Oh, my gosh. You guys like sand through a strainer. What was that series? I mean, I am actually embarrassed for them, because then I said this on the podcast yesterday. I wanted, when we finally crushed them like this, for it to really mean something to me, but I just feel like we beat up a toddler in the parking lot and stole his candy. It just doesn't.

I wanted it to hurt them more than it actually did. Right. Like, is that fair to say?

John Truepen
I think if you're talking about this weekend, yes, I think it's fair to think, oh, well, you know, I mean, what are you really doing? What more could you really do? But again, I do come back to the Mariners, quite literally, I think, broke the Ohtani Angels.

Like, they. They broke. They. They crushed that season, that era of angels with that Mickey mopey mop. Mickey mop, exactly. Last year's four game sweep, right after the Angels had just made these bunch of win now trades. You know, they've gotten Gioledo and, like, Justin Bohr, I think, or whatever, whoever it was that it's not. Maybe it wasn't Justin Bohr, but it's functionally Justin Bohr.

And the Mariners came in and swept them in four games with their own grand slam by Cade Marlowe. Right. To just rush them. I mean, to. To absolutely rip out their contention window, to put them in a spot where they, like, basically, like, needed to actually, oops, we're gonna sell.

Just kidding. But we've already gotten rid of everything we have anyway, and, you know, I think crush any possibility of Ohtani returning to that organization. Like, this is the best we could do. So now it is, to me, very much like you're just watching the ripple effects of that and that. That this weekend had a potentially crushing moment with that Joe Adele grand slam.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that.

John Truepen
And then the Mariners still won.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, that was very funny.

I think that as much as I would love to believe that the Mariners took down the angels after I spent so long being afraid of the angels. Like, it took me so long to release that because at any moment it felt like they could have turned it around.

Trout and Ohtani should have been enough.

And if I ever meet an angels fan, I still have not ever met one. But if I ever do, I feel like I will feel sorry for them because that is, that must be crushing to feel like you have these two generational talents and just nothing of it.

And it is, there is no sympathy from the angels, obviously, because they're in our division and they edged us out in certain years and whatever, screw them. But they're so dysfunctional. And sometimes I wonder that it does maybe remove some pressure on the dysfunctionality of the Mariners because there are just not as dysfunctional as the angels who have just made every bad choice. They've made every bad choice in like, player acquisition. I know we were talking about those as win now trades or whatever. Those were the last desperate gasps of trying to, like, they were not, they were not serious additions or anything because they didn't have anything that they could do that with because their farm system is so bad and their player development is so bad and their player acquisition is so bad. Like, it's bad. And these are players who should be good. I think. I don't know where Nolan Shanuel or whatever you, however you say his name, I don't know where he went.

Yes. Yay. I don't know where he went this weekend, why he didn't play. I think the series probably looks a little different if he does because he does elevate their lineup so much.

We did. We somehow saw an even like less robust version of the Angels than they are.

But yeah, I mean, they've been going downhill for a long time. Obviously, the Astros have remained at the top. The Rangers and Mariners spent the last few years leapfrogging them. They're in total tear down mode. They've got to sell off all their usable parts. Griffin Canning is going to look so good in, I don't know, a Yankees uniform. Who do we think is going to.

They should trade him, though. They should trade everyone on their roster who is a little bit good, start it all over, build it up from the bottom with prospects and just go hard. Rebuild because it's a new era there. So it feels nice that that has closed. Oakland is obviously so it's going to be these three teams that are battling it out, the AL west, which is essentially what it was last year. I disagree about the idea that the Mariners are significantly better than either the Rangers or the Astros.

I don't think that we saw the best version of the Astros over this last series. The winds were very narrow. Obviously, both teams can pitch.

BrEGMAN I think we were very lucky to have just caught the very, very beginnings of what seems like him finally putting it together because you just, you can't expect Alex Bregman. There's no way he would have fallen off of a cliff this hard.

We've seen this with Julio. We know that if Julio is not the player that he's been for the first couple months of the season, for the rest of the season, then neither is Alex Bregman. Both of them are just too talented to play at this level. And you look at the individual astro stats and the hitters are performing, they're sort of having the same kind of bad luck with the Mariners as the Mariners, where they're just not sequencing very well. I would say they're probably having worse luck because worse sequencing luck because the Mariners really can't hit consistently, have not been able to. We saw a little bit of a change the series, and I'm interested to see how things will be going along, and I know we'll get into that a little bit, but I'm not counting the Astros out. Far from it. The Rangers we know can hit their pitching is the. I also don't know what's going wrong because they'll just have nights where they have, like, an offensive blackout.

So, yeah, I definitely feel like the divisional lead, even though it looks nice on paper, is more tenuous than it feels. These games are being won by narrow margins against teams that I don't think are showing their best selves. But then you could argue also the Mariners haven't been showing their best selves and hopefully have more offense. It would certainly be hard to have less.

Evan James
Sure would.

John Truepen
Yeah.

I do want to be clear. I agree with you that I'm not writing, I'm not burying the Astros or the Rangers here. I'm simply saying the fact that they continue to flounder against, you know, some good teams but also some mediocre teams. Right. The Rangers recently got, what? Swept by the Rockies. Like, you know, just not swept.

Kate Preusser
They didn't lose a, lose a series. They lost series, which. What are you doing?

John Truepen
Right. You know, the, the fact that Seattle is beating, you know, the Astros when the Astros are down four starting pitchers, for sure, that is fortunate for the.

Kate Preusser
Mariners, but, yeah, they missed Blanco on this last trip. Right?

John Truepen
So they missed Ronald Blanco. Yeah, Blanco is back from his suspension, but they, I mean, but he has been better but, like, ostensibly, they face their four best pitchers in theory, coming into the year. Right. They face Ramber, or I guess the three. Right. As they face Ramber, Verlander and Hunter. Brown. Brown and arrighetti and then arrogetti.

Yeah. You know, I think it's, it's perfectly, you know, reasonable that, like, yes, the Astros have better in them, but they're also not really getting a lot of their best people back. Right. Or Keati looks like he's done for.

Kate Preusser
Katie, I think is done.

John Truepen
Christian Javier, hopefully back to the deal.

Kate Preusser
Back to the DL, though, or back to the aisle.

John Truepen
They ended up more forearm discomfort. Yeah.

Colors and Luis Garcia are still both coming back from TJ.

That was, like, early to mid season last year. It's, I'm skeptical that they will, you know, both be either or both will be particularly impactful. So, I mean, this is, this is what the Astros are. And I do think the sequencing absolutely has not been good for them because they have one of the best offenses in baseball and, you know, yes, the, the sort of way that, you know, the EMs were able to win was a little bit, you know, knuckle baron, you know, knuckle white knuckling. But that is, it's almost less about how they have won those games, because at least when we're seeing the Mariners then play someone like the Angels, they are actually whooping them. They are actually putting a thorough beating on a significantly inferior team.

And because they've won those games against the Astros, they have the cushion to, you know, to be less of a, less of a sort of stressful team, at least for now. Right. And at least, at least for this moment for me.

But they're obviously not fully satisfied with how they're performing. If they were, they would not have fired brand Brown or dismissed brand, whatever we like, whatever, whatever the term is. I don't know what the Washington state unemployment would, would qualify is separated from service. Yes.

Kate Preusser
Separated from service. Get it?

John Truepen
That's very good.

Kay. I don't really, I know this was discussed on the last step with the rest of the crew, but I don't really have a lot to say on Brown other than they obviously brought him in to try and instill some specific philosophical things and have a certain style, and some people vibed with it and some people really didn't.

And whatever they were thinking, they ultimately, I think it sounds like, decided it wasn't worth trying to, you know, grind this through, which is interesting to me, for sure, but I don't really know. I can't say enough about, you know, one way or the other what to expect or what it really means.

But I would love to hear your perspective as you're in the clubhouse more.

You have some conversations with a lot of these folks. So what's your perspective on their dismissal of Brown?

Kate Preusser
Yeah, I had never actually talked to brand Brown. It's hard to get him or Woodworth or tread blank or any of those guys unless you sort of request it and you have, like, a significant reason for it. They're not just hanging out wanting to talk.

So I didn't know much about him, and obviously the players are not going to throw him under the bus. The one player who we did talk to who gave quotes on the record about it was Mitch Hanniger. And Hanniger seemed to really love him. But I feel like you get some feedback from that, right? If Hanniger loves him, we know what kind of player Hanniger is and what kind of mentality that might speak to or vibe with.

So what seemed to come out of that was like, he has a lot of information and he has an unconventional way of sharing it. And he really, I think, talked at kind of a high level that maybe wasn't resonating with all of these guys or maybe was causing them to try to overthink because I don't know that there would be guys who just, like, straight up didn't want to do that. I do know Julio has his own hitting coach and maybe wasn't as invested in these strategies as some of the other guys.

But, you know, I think what it was about was just trying to simplify the voices in the clubhouse and, and streamline things.

And a lot of Scott's comments were, you know, and this really dates back to that infamous, like, getting off the iPads thing.

There was a little bit, and again, service says multiple times, like, it was difficult for him. He is close with Brown personally. They were teammates on the Cubs for like two years, three years, maybe three years.

But, like, it just kind of seemed like he was a little frustrated with guys maybe not making in game adjustments. He said that over and over again that there was the iPads one where he felt like we got off the iPads, we watched the game.

He was really frustrated with the Spencer Arrighetti start the game that they lost against the Astros because it sounded like they had planned for Arroghetti to come at them with fastballs early and then go to his break stuff, and he flipped it on them and there wasn't an adjustment made.

And that sort of preceding this move was significant to me as far because that was, it's very rare to hear service express frustration.

I think he really takes it on himself to be that kind of level headed, because in baseball, you cannot get too high, you cannot get too low, you cannot be reactive. The Mariners as a, as an organization preach that, and they, they do that in their day to day operations.

They try to maintain sort of like a calmness so that their players will also, like, maybe not get too high or too low because that's where you start making mistakes and being sloppy, and you just, you cannot do that with 162 game season.

So them making this move is striking. And also, when Scott does sort of express feelings of disappointment or just out showing anything outwardly, that is always something that I take a little extra note of. So it was.

I will say that I was surprised, but looking back over, you know, obviously the offensive performance speak for itself.

I think a lot of the players in the clubhouse felt like they lost him his job because they were not performing and felt like, pretty bad about that.

I'm sure there are players who won't miss him, who didn't use him, who didn't find him useful or helpful, but it seemed like a lot of them felt like they had certainly Thai, France, Dilmore, Hanniger, like, all express that they really think he's great and, you know, are sorry that their performance sort of because you can't fire the team, you can demote some of them like Urius, but you can't make that change. So he was a little bit of sacrif, and they don't do sacrificial lamb thinking. I don't think, but I do think it was about like, streamlining, having fewer voices and trying to get guys back, maybe get them back on track, which service says is being the best version of yourself doing what got you here. And something he said that I think was really key in yesterday's postgame was, he said, being the hunter, not the hunted, being less passive and more aggressive. And you saw that a lot like the Mariners took a ton of pitches. They led the league in pitches taken. They did not do much with those pitches because they were fouling them off because they would strike out looking. They struck out looking more than most teams, certainly more than any teams that have designs on going to the post season.

So they were working pitchers over, but they weren't getting a lot of results out of it. I'm hoping to see a shift towards not necessarily being more aggressive and swinging out of their shoes. All the time, but. Because that also doesn't seem to work.

But, yeah, maybe individual batters getting back to like, okay, he's gonna throw me a first pitch pass ball and I'm gonna do something with it. Or, oh, he didn't throw me a first pitched pass ball.

So maybe that's coming up now. I don't know. Or maybe just not even thinking, maybe just clearing their mind and being in the box and being present, because that seemed to be. And reading the game as it goes along. That was kind of a theme that came out over services, pregame pressers. He was talking a lot about the adjustments. He wanted to see with them, like, following the game and looking up from the iPad and looking at what was happening on the field.

Evan James
You know what's tough about hearing all this is that it sounds like he's a very smart guy and he's maybe good at what he does, but not good at teaching the Mariners. And that's kind of a. Kind of a contradiction. And what's really stuck with me about this whole thing is there's this whole, like, he's friends with Scott element to it. Because I think of the Seahawks and I think of what happened with Pete Carroll, and people will tell you the downfall of Pete Carroll was that after the Seahawks won the Super Bowl, a bunch of his coaches got hired away, and he started putting people who were very close to him in the organization in those roles, and they were not cut out for it in the same way that some of the Super bowl coaches were. And that led, you know, it took a long time. Like, the degradation of that process was slow. But over time, it became apparent that hiring Nate Carroll, his son, to coach the wide receivers was not a good idea. And bringing in X and Y coaches that he was cool with once upon a time was not a good idea, and not doing due diligence in figuring out who would have been best for the organization was not a good idea. And I do get the sense that they did due diligence with Brent Brown. I made a tweet that I said I wasn't sure. Scott has made mention multiple times they had a. They had a multiple interview process. They talked multiple people. They liked what he had to say apart from any pre existing relationships.

All of that said, it sure looks like the Mariners were way off the same page this year offensively.

John Truepen
Right?

Evan James
Like, just. Just the raw numbers of it all looks like whatever it is they tried to do did not stick and did not work and was not well received and affected the play for in a very significant way, especially for Julio. Like, yeah, the point I made yesterday on the podcast was like, I do not believe in scapegoating hitting coaches, like, period. I just don't.

But I think that, like, when you look at what happened to Julio, my God, like, maybe heads should roll for that. And now that they have, I have a hard time saying, I don't really agree with it. Do you guys? And again, I'm not talking about scapegoating anyone. I'm talking about, do you think the Mariners offensive performance over the first two months of this season demanded a kind of drastic change? Because I do. And if this is part of it, I'm okay with it.

Kate Preusser
Zachary, like I said, I don't think it's scapegoating, but to go back to what you said about.

I think it's about simplifying, but to go back to what you said about the mismatch, I mean, if you look at Hanniger and Garver, those are two players who I think have a very similar approach, super analytical. They like to look at the data.

But then you have a lot of other players who I think are very feel based and who, like little simple, simple ideas. Like, you know, read the spin. What is. Rojas is big into this. He. Rojas loves himself, like, a catchy little something, but I wouldn't consider him, like, a super huge analytic guy. He has, like, a basic understanding of his plan, and he goes up and he tries to execute his plan every time. And that's why he's been one of their more consistent hitters. JP, same thing. Like, these guys didn't need other voices telling them to do things differently. And I flat out don't think JP probably changed anything.

But then you. I mean, you have other players. You have, like, Luke Rayleigh, who's kind of at his best. We've only seen Luke Rayleigh, I think, really come into himself over this past week. Or I like Luke Rayleigh and I think he's smart, but I don't know that he is.

Huge analytics. Like, look at all the data. And Luke Rayleigh is not good when he is thinking too much about what he's doing at the plate. Luke Rayleigh, caveman. Luke Rayleigh is good when he takes his giant arms and he swings the bat at a good pitch that's in the zone, and he makes the ball go really far. And I think that that was maybe the most.

If I could boil it down to one player who was completely different at, like, 05:00 and 07:00 not 05:00 they don't take batting practice different when the lights come up, let's put it that way.

It was Rayleigh, because Rayleigh would go out, he would have these awesome batting practice sessions where, you know, he's just destroying the ball.

He has some of the loudest, hardest contact I've seen standing there. Reminds me of Ta, Oscar, honestly.

But then the instant the game started and get to the plate, it was like that guy disappeared. And I think that that is kind of emblematic of that's not the player because he's not being his best. And, you know, you see it with Julio, too. So I don't think this is a magic bullet that's going to cure everything. But I think for some guys simplifying it and some guys who they really need to be good, like Julio and they need Luke Rayleigh, I think I'm hoping to see a transition for them.

John Truepen
Yeah, I mean, the challenging thing is the folks who most cotton to this sort of philosophy you talk about, the mitches were among the players struggling the most. You know, they were the ones underperforming most dramatically.

And, you know, Hanniger, it's. It's always been fair to wonder, I mean, how much does he really got? But, like, physically, you know, he obviously looks lesser than earlier stretches in his career, but ultimately, you know, he's. When he cranks the ball, he's still hitting it hard and he's, you know, he's. He's not so unfathomably different than, than some of his other, you know, sort of recent stretches. And he's always been streaky. But, I mean, Garver is dramatically, dramatically underperforming and made. The major component of that is he's striking out way more. He is chasing more, he is swinging at more pitches out of the zone and fewer pitches in the zone, and he is making less contact on all of his swings. I think some of that has been physical. Hopefully, that is no longer the case. But if the people who are cottoning to it the most are the ones who are ultimately still struggling the most and the people who are yo yoing, maybe a bit like Julio.

It certainly has seemed to Julio, who is not a stranger to trying to make adjustments. But, you know, I certainly don't love the implication that he was, like, resistance or very much not engaged on some of the guidance or the style. But I also do think what service said recently after this, which was, you know, we have a lot we want to get back to. In addition to what you mentioned about, like, you know, being the. The aggressors was.

A lot of these folks have gotten to the big leagues by hitting a certain way, and we want them to get back to what they have been successful, what got them here.

I think that's certainly a double edged sword of, you know, you're. That's definitely not going to have more cohesive approaches at the plate. That's. That is absolutely going to have much more disparate approaches night in, night out to. To an individual pitcher. If you have everyone trying to do what they think is most in keeping with their skillset, doesn't make it bad, but it, you know, it's definitely less of a, you know, we have a plan as a team kind of approach, and so I am hopeful that that means better. I mean, if it means better for Julio, it honestly barely matters, or it matters so much less for anyone else. If Julio is able to be who he has been, then, you know, the rest of the team can kind of do, you know, up and down, whatever.

So that's. That's really all that I would look for. To answer your question, Evan, I do think this required changes. It's not Brant Brown's fault that the Mariners have, you know, filled every position with a platoon, basically, and some of those worked out, some of them haven't.

So, you know, you're asking him to coordinate an offense that didn't look like a particularly great offense on paper, but also, almost every player has been worse than expected. So I do think it will be interesting, and I think it's.

I can't help but feel that the Mariners would have been able to hit the angels pretty well regardless of if Brent Brown was kept through the weekend or not.

Evan James
So you'd like to think so in any case.

John Truepen
You like to think so and just, you know, broadly speaking. Right. One of the big things in the Mariners favor is they have a pretty weak strength of schedule coming, and they. They finally entered that stage of the, you know, they had this pretty daunting road trip to the east coast, followed by coming home and hosting Houston, which is just not an easy slate. And now they get a little bit more in their favor. Right. They get to face the Angels in Oakland, and theoretically, that aligned better for your offensive numbers, whether you have this.

Kate Preusser
Trip is White Sox, Oakland, and Kansas City, which I am really hard to.

John Truepen
Get a gauge on.

Kate Preusser
Still, I think Kansas City is good and has gotten better. I know our colleagues over at Royals Review are talking about their own deadline additions and what the Royals should be shopping for, which I feel like, what the Royals should be shopping for is patience because you are already good. You got your World Series. You're rebuilding faster, I think, than I thought that was going to happen for them. Turns out, like, they brought in somebody who's a really decent pitch, pitching coordination coordinator and all, and got extremely lucky in that. Cole Reagan's trade. Oh, boy, what a stinker that is for the Rangers. Not talked about enough. I think we love talking about when the Mariners do bad trades, but what a bad trade.

John Truepen
Yeah.

I'll say this for the Royals, right? They, they have been either in last place or second to last place for, what, six straight years, like, and they've had 300 lost teams and a 97 lost team in there, and then one of those years was 2020. Like, they have fun for a long time.

Kate Preusser
They've been really.

John Truepen
They have not had a winning season since that world.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, they went from so good to so bad so, so fast, and it was supposed to come together sooner. You know, they had all that pitching talent that they drafted, and it was just, and that was something that pair paralyzed me with. Fear about the Mariners rebuild, honestly, was like, we saw it not go well for the Tigers. We saw it not go well for the Royals. And, you know, it's, it's really risky to base everything on a, on a base your rebuild around pitching. I think the Mariners were in a unique position to do it well, and we're reaping the benefits of it right now. But, oh, boy, it does feel shaky.

Evan James
And what's most annoying about the Royals is that they're not that different from the Mariners in terms of position prior to the season, but they happen to have the best player in baseball, Uber prospects succeeding in every level. Bobby Witt junior. And the Mariners have Julio Rodriguez, who would like to play better, and I'm happy with everything he's doing, but, like, it's, it's rough because when I look at the Royals and their record and I see Bobby Witt Junior, I'm like, it should be me. Should be us.

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Kate Preusser
It is frustrating that Bobby Witt junior seems to have zero holes in his game. Like, he just does not struggle.

Evan James
He's so good. So freaking good.

Kate Preusser
Him and Adley both. It's like that's. They're extremely annoying.

Evan James
Gunner Henderson like yeah, I think that.

Kate Preusser
The series against the Orioles showed us how far the gap is and the Yankees showed us how far the gap is between the Mariners and really good teams. It was exciting that they were able to like thunder back and win those games. Those first two games of the Yankees series, I hope split with the Yankees. I hope that it was confidence building. I hope that this stretch was confidence building. I know that there feels like there's a different vibe around the team. I think this Royals series is going to tell us a lot about them and yeah, hopefully they can just they because it really is helpful to take in new process or better process when you also get the results that go along with that.

And they have put themselves into a great place to immediately not only have good process but see immediate good results which will reinforce that process. So this is a real opportunity for a turn. I don't know if they're going to take it or not because I feel like I've said many times this season, and I think that was one of the elements of frustration with that led to this change being made was it felt like so many times there were starts, it felt like the offense was turning a corner and then they just fall back into their old ways. So I will say that that game against Griffin Canning made me a little nervous. That final game of the Angels series, they were not getting a lot done at the plate. There was traffic on the bases, though, and they were working some pretty good at bats.

They were just stymied by that change up once again. So I want to see them continue to build on this and the road trip's a good time for that.

John Truepen
I will, I think the, you know, this is far from, from end all be all here, but, you know, the Royals are eight and 14 against teams with a above 500 record.

They are 28 and eleven against teams below 500, which is to say they've played the White Sox a lot. They've played the A's. They've played the Blue Jays, who admittedly are only disappointing in part because they have lost two teams they should beat so good on the Royals and similarly good on them against Houston, who has underachieved.

But so, you know, it's not just that they've played terrible teams, but they have beaten up on terrible teams. They have lost five out of seven against the twins. They lost their series so far to the Rangers. They've lost to the Orioles. They, you know, it is just to say they're beating up on terrible teams, which is what you should do. But part of the reason I am a little dubious of that big old run differential is, and frankly, their record as well, is, I think it's a really good, I think it's an improved roster. I don't think that they still have the, they, they still have the caliber yet of, of the level that their, their record might suggest. So I am interested in seeing that matchup, especially because, you know, again, the Mariners beat him two out of three last time. So, you know, that, that, to me, is another interest, but not in a normal fashion.

Kate Preusser
Let's be clear. Nothing that happens in these games, we might not be able to tell that much. The Mariners and Royals seem incapable of playing a normal baseball game.

John Truepen
It's true. It's true.

No, but I think that, you know, I am excited, certainly, for, for the Mariners to get to play the, the 2024 Chicago White Sox, which is rarely something. I feel blessed.

Yeah. I mean, it is, it is. It is a rough, rough state of affairs. Well, they're going to be bringing, during this road trip, they're going to be bringing a new member of the roster with them, that being outfielder Victor Robles, who's going to meet them in Oakland for the game here for the first leg of the trip.

Evan James
And the Mariners picked him up off waiver. So he's definitely good, right? That's what you're about to tell us, John?

John Truepen
Well, not even that. He fully was released. He made it through waivers. No one claimed him, and the Mariners were able to sign him as a free agent afterwards.

So they will not be on the hook for, they will only be on the hook for the league minimum, and then whatever else he is making beyond that will still be paid by the Washington Nationals. Victor Robles, 27 year old outfielder, former top prospect in the. In the sport, not the top, but one of the top five. Pretty unanimously.

Used to be one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. Used to be one of the fastest players in baseball.

Used to be expected to become a superstar or at least a very, very quality regular.

Instead, he has not been able to hit consistently. He has had a number of injuries that have short, sort of short circuited the past several years, including the start of this year.

The Mariners have brought him in ostensibly to be a right handed outfield platoon partner to, I would say most likely Dominic Kinzone because they've seemed more comfortable letting Rayleigh play.

However, I could imagine them being warrior of that or overexposing him there because that's not something he's really done before.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, I would definitely say that. I feel like Rayleigh has jumped Canzone in the. Whereas the organization seemed to have such a crush on canzone for so long. I think that Rayleigh has, a, outplayed him, b, been healthy, so he's had opportunities, which is factoring into that, and c, gotten made improvements in a way that can zone canzone. I've been very disappointed, has gone kind of back to his swing at everything. Undisciplined. I can make the contact, so why don't I make the contact?

Which it felt like he was changing that at the beginning of this year. It felt like he was being more patient and he was getting to his power more and impacting the baseball with more authority. And it just feels like that's kind of gone away.

John Truepen
Well, it's been interesting with Kenzone because if I recall correctly, that was sort of philosophically what they seemed actually be encouraging him to do, which was a little bit baffling. I wonder, actually about him and Brent Brown because that has seemed so obviously not to be what you would want Canzone to do. Right. He has genuinely quite good bat control and can get the barrel to the ball, but he swings so frequently at anything close to the plate that he ultimately ends up, you know, getting the bat on pitches that he shouldn't hit.

And that's a, you know, that's, that's a huge problem. Right. You would want a player like that in theory, if they were able to be successful, to be more patient, you know, and we're seeing him walk more. But that's, you know, it hasn't fully worn out. And part of that's been, you know, the injury disrupted it and, and he's got a laughable Babep. Um, and he's, you know, it's. I think he's still in the like, 100 5160 range on Babep, but, you know, a lot of those are rolled over grounders, so, you know, it's not exactly, you know, entirely unclear. Now, I think he's got one of the best ex wobbas on the team, so I think he's not exactly getting cheated. I don't think. I think they're right to continue giving him a shot, especially given their options. But Rayleigh's just a better defender, does other things better, and, you know, had a longer track record of success, albeit not super lengthy, but longer track record coming into the year. So Robles, honestly, to me, says more about their concerns about Mitch Hanniger and. And in fairness, that he's someone they can immediately cut bait on as soon as they choose to. So I'm not. I'm not putting too much onto it, but Hanegar has not been able to carry his weight as a, you know, lefty Masher, which has historically been something he's been able to do.

And I don't know if that's just been coincidental or if there's something really to that. There's nothing I've seen that makes me think, oh, he just can't hit lefties anymore. But he hasn't.

So, you know, the way that they are constructing this roster right now is almost around at least one or two players who aren't really able to perform.

And how much longer are they going to let that happen?

Evan James
The only thing I want to add to that is that can zones defense has been almost shockingly good, especially since he came back from the injured list. I think part of the reason, even though his Kate is Kate is grimacing the numbers like him. I was shocked, too, because I've seen him out there, and he looks like a cosplay field sometimes, then the numbers like quite a bit, especially. Especially relative to Mitch. So when we're talking about who they're throwing out there, it feels like they've seen enough for Mitch Hanniger to believe that they don't want him in the outfield anymore. And I'm very hard pressed to disagree with that as much as that really limits what he can be for this team. Long term, short term, medium term. Um, yeah, that's it. I just wanted to say, I think. I think Danzone's defense has been a surprise because I expected below average, and he's been above average slightly. But, you know, like, we'll take it.

Kate Preusser
I would like to know how much those stats take into account, like positioning or route running, because I. I just feel like he makes everything look so much harder than it actually is.

Evan James
He takes 100% agree with that.

Kate Preusser
I do.

John Truepen
I mean, listen, the Mariners have cornered the market on players who make everything look more difficult. Right. Luke Rayleigh. Luke.

Kate Preusser
Yeah.

John Truepen
Quite something, Jonathan. Class A, not a brilliant speed. Not always showing the. The route you might hope for.

So.

Evan James
I would, by the way, I'd love to get Kate's take on that because his defense looked rough.

Rough. And I'd love to know what she.

Kate Preusser
I think it looked like somebody who was playing his first major league games in an unfamiliar ballpark, in an unfamiliar position, because he's come up as a center fielder and all of a sudden he's playing a bunch of left field. So. And even when he was in Tacoma, they've been playing him in center. So I'm not concerned about class A's defense. It's improved so much, and that is largely due to Franklin Gutierrez working with him. And, you know, it was better. The other thing is, he's not been playing regularly. They've been kind of moving him all over the place, and I hope that they will just kind of leave him alone in Tacoma for a while. I think that's why. I think that's what robless is about, really. So that they can have him sitting on the bench instead of class A until whatever time Polanco gets back. I think that the Robless moves makes me more nervous about Polanco not maybe coming back within his expected window, because they're not hard pressed to replace Polanco, certainly not as bat, which, if we're talking about underperforming, is yet another one.

Yeah. So that's not something super concerned about.

I am not immediately concerned about because they've got Rojas play at second or third. They've got more who's actually been having a dynamite season, who I'd rather honestly see in the lineup instead of Polanco anyway. So, you know, maybe they continue to Il Polanco, send them on a nice lengthy rehab, give them a little bit of the Abreu treatment. I don't know.

Whatever.

John Truepen
I do definitely think they're going to try and give Polanco as much time as possible, because not even. Not even as much time as possible. But, like, there's.

They have to, I think, recognize that the, like, good version of Jorge Polanco is better than most of the rest of the players in this lineup. And unless that version is completely gone, it's worth them taking the time for him to be fully healthy, a guy who has historically had lots of nicks and bruises that have impact, impacted his performance in different years. And so it does make me wonder.

Kate Preusser
If he's been playing through something like all year that has been impacting the production because he's just.

John Truepen
I hope he has.

Kate Preusser
Yeah. I never wish for a player to be injured, but in this case, in this very.

John Truepen
Yeah, well, just because it would give better explanation as to why so much of his, you know, decision making or not decision making. But performance has been so bad. Right. He's not, it's not as though he's been, like, suddenly swinging at absolute crap all the time. He's actually chasing less. Can he ever.

Evan James
The fastball performance has cratered.

John Truepen
Yes. And that's certainly, you know, a concern because his bat speed is not great at all.

But he, you know, I guess I do wonder about, you know, what was the game plan that they had with him because he has a total, he's had a dramatically different approach and that's, you know, hopefully something that they can shift back or that he can, he can have a maybe some more strength build back in when he comes back. Because right now, the, the challenge is, I think you're right, that Dylan Moore should be playing basically every day, and they are playing it basically every day. But, you know, that means Moore's playing it third on or, you know, either him, either he's playing a third or second when, you know, when it's a right handed pitcher and Rojas will play a third and then Moore's playing a third with bliss at second when a lefties on the mound because Rojas has still been, you know, really, really severely struggled against lefties.

And I hope that that works for Ryan Bliss. But we're, you know, you're, you're, you're really banking on players who are not in that not a high likelihood performer. They worked out for them last year because Jose Caballero became that guy out of an unexpected performance. And we saw some of that type of play from bliss with his base running this past week and weekend, which was exhilarating.

But, oh, it's just a lot to ask. It's a lot to ask of a player who doesn't have that track record or even, you know, the track record that Caballero had.

So, yeah, that, that to me is, I don't think they need to rush Polanco back, but in the interim, you know, the, the options that they're going with are not exactly foolproof.

And having four different positions functionally where you are going with pretty significant uncertainties, if we're talking about, you know, whatever the canzone slash robles is, and then Rayleigh Hanegar and then second and third, it's still a lot. It's still. It's still a lot to gamble on.

Evan James
There to tie this into our last point today. And then we'll wrap because John's got to go here in a couple of minutes.

It sounds like we feel decent about Polanco chances of being better the rest of the year. So that kind of answers a question in the infield, especially because Rojas and more have already kind of taken some of that spot. Anyways, Kate wanted to talk about who we might target as far as positionally at the trade deadline, where we might add to this team.

I think the answer is the outfield. Right. Because we feel like even if the infield, even if individual players are not performing, that is the right cabal of guys to roll out for those spots, optionally wise.

John Truepen
Zachal.

Evan James
It is a cabal.

It's a cabal. Zach talked about optionality on the podcast the last two times about how the Mariners are built to have somebody succeeding. But who that is can be one of a grab bag of guys who are participating in said activities. So, Kate, I'll pitch it over to you, because this was your question. Like, where would you add to this team at the deadline? Where do you see somebody being plugged in here?

Kate Preusser
Yeah. I want to be clear.

I just wanted to say, I wanted to talk about this so I could tell people to stop trying to trade Vladimir Guerrero, Junior, to Seattle. Like, that is not happening. Stop it, stop it. Stop. Stop writing up trade provoking.

Evan James
I love that the context of your trade discussion is assuming shoeing other trade discussions.

Kate Preusser
Yes, exactly.

Evan James
That's keep it on brand.

Kate Preusser
I mean, I do think that they do something because they have to. Because they have to improve this team.

Unless, you know, and again, it is early June. Like, Julio could get hot, and when Julio is hot, this whole team looks different. And I don't think Mitch Hanniger, I think Panninger is possibly a candidate for maybe one of the few players on this team who might actually benefit Hannigar and Garber from Brandt's dismissal. And maybe just, like, not being quite so much just bound up in the numbers and paralysis by analysis, I think is a real thing. And Hannigar's been really, really good in full counts this year. He's one of the only mariners who has been who seeing all those pitches really helps. So if he can just like, get back to doing that, keep doing that work account, work a pitcher, it's what he was doing in spring training when he was so good.

It's what he needs to do now. I'm not totally out on Mitch Hannaker yet, and I think Garver as well shoot Sebi Zavala to the moon. I guess I don't know what they're doing with him on the roster. Like, he's just occupying a roster spot. They seem unwilling to play him. Put Gar. Put Garver back in as your second catcher because you got to do something.

I know they wanted to protect him health wise, but you can't protect him. Like, what is the point of that? If he's not actually producing and if that is something that gets his back going, do it. Do it regularly. Get Cal some days off. I don't care. He's a fine receiver.

But I do think it's very premature for these discussions to happen. The one area that I think they absolutely have to add in is in relief corps.

They just are not going to be able to pull guys up through their system to help this bullpen out in, I think, the way that they have in years past. There's just nothing there. Unless you want to just shoot Logan and Evans straight into a reliever role, which I don't know is the best idea for his development and might also possibly tank his trade value if you ever did want to trade him. And just.

I don't. I mean, I don't know if that's the best version of Logan Evans.

Evan James
John, I know that's the wrong way to do this. You. That's the wrong answer. The answer is for them to get somebody else.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, I mean, there's. Yeah, go ahead, John.

John Truepen
I agree. No, I agree. Like, Evans does not have. I think we've mentioned something.

Kate Preusser
We have.

John Truepen
We've talked about brash is the common comparison, and he, Evans is a very compelling pitcher, but he is a sum of his parts. Pitcher who does not have that one pitch that is a huge swing and miss pitch. Evans, at least right now, the best version of him to me is one that's in a rotation role where he's mixing his arsenal to get through several innings. And that's, I mean, maybe he'll be better than Austin Voth or Voth at some point, but I'm not, I guess, terribly concerned it would tank his value, but I don't think there's a clear in watching him. It's not clear to me that this is a guy who immediately spikes, yeah, in the bullpen.

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Kate Preusser
But there's no one else, like, there's no one else in the system that I would feel comfortable with bringing up. There's no one else who is ready at the AA level?

No.

And there is no one at AAA who has, like, really distinguished themselves from the past. They got Colin Snyder back. He was okay there. Maybe he perks up a little with big league coaching. Who knows? I think Michael Bauman is really interesting. I am also extremely scared of him. His command has always been his issue, and I don't know that they're, like, magically going to fix that. But he is a good talent and he's exciting to have.

They need, though, a reliable, you know, what they really need? What they really need is like a Paul Seawald type. Uh, just somebody you can just roll out and have, like, they don't have to strike a ton of guys out. They just have to consistently post results and be a steady hand in this bullpen that has had a lot of variants in it. I mean, I remember when Munoz was the one who was very, you know, up and down, and we were kind of worried about, you never knew what version of him you were going to get. That, I think, is something that's not gone remarked upon enough. I mean, it has been. Maybe it's just, it doesn't feel like it's enough because it's such a significant change. He has so much blossom this year. It's, it's really one of the best stories on the team.

Evan James
Some of that, too, is it's hard to separate his injury comeback from his actual development. So I think there's a lot of people who would say as far as him blossoming, like some of that was, was him figuring things out initially, especially last year, coming back from, but was a very long layoff plan.

Kate Preusser
Yeah. And I think that this year specifically, he is the healthiest he's ever been, and you see that translating on the field. But he's also a different guy. He's more confident. He's taken that role. He has stepped up enormously knowing that he has to be the guy.

I think I've liked what we've seen from Ryan Stanik lately. I am feeling more comfortable with him.

Evan James
What, for a pickup, for a free reliever? Like, he cost us nothing. We got him at the last 11th.

Kate Preusser
Hour thing, but, yeah, we paid him the money that the Astros weren't willing to pay him, which is, feels like a win in and of itself, considering some of the things that have gone on with their bullpen.

Evan James
Yeah. In the context of him on this team, I would say he's an unqualified success.

John Truepen
Very.

Kate Preusser
But they need, they need one more steady hand in there. The cost of a reliever will not be significant.

Like, as significant as some of these other names that get floated around.

I think that's your blear.

That's where the focus should be right now. I still would like some time for this offense to tell us who they are, especially in the wake of this coaching change.

And then I think that there are some really specific places. Yeah, the infield is getting kind of crowded. The outfield does make the most sense, but honestly, they'll find a spot for whoever it is, wherever they, they'll find a spot for somebody who can hit at that position, and we'll figure out the rest later. But I think that it's way too early to talk about the Blue Jays tearing it down. They're a 500 team. They're just playing in the AL east. But I don't foresee a fire sale coming from them.

Some of the other teams that would be good. Trade partners still feel like they're in it. I mean, we don't know what's happening with the Royals, the AL Central in general.

There are very few teams that you feel like are good matches. The White Sox, obviously not the ones in our own division.

So the Angels and the A's, but that's an inner division trade that's tough.

I actually go ahead.

John Truepen
I mean, the Mariners have made deadline trades with the A's before they have. I still don't think they do with the angels. But, like, you know, yonder Alonso, the, you know, that, that was a. Yeah.

Deadline ish deal. Right. You know, I don't think, you know, they're going to get Mace Miller. I don't want them to go get Mason Miller. But I do think, you know, they're, they're, if they're looking for a bullpen, if it's looking like Gregory Santos is not going to pitch this year and, you know, they're still really struggling for those 7th inning, you know, pieces I could abolish. Absolutely. See them looking into something like Lucas Ersig.

Kate Preusser
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

John Truepen
I've never actually heard his name said out loud.

Kate Preusser
I think Erzega is right.

John Truepen
I think it is. But something, you know, something like that I don't think is out of the question there. I do completely agree on the angels, and I don't expect the Astros or Rangers to be in such a bad place.

Kate Preusser
And with the angels, too, it's like, look at that rock. Like, is there anything you want on there? The only thing I want is Griffin Cannon, and he's gonna go somewhere else, I think.

John Truepen
Yeah, I think they could get.

Kate Preusser
No thanks.

John Truepen
To what end?

What I do think they could do with the angels and I doubt would happen, but I am curious if Carlos Estevez is cooked or if he is just dejected, which is very fair. The closer for an interesting and competitive team who is pretty good to the, you know, lost his, you know, to becoming the closer for a horrific team.

Kate Preusser
Yeah.

John Truepen
And then, you know, like, what does it even matter?

Kate Preusser
Yeah. When does he even pitch him at all in this series?

John Truepen
Right.

Kate Preusser
Okay. That's an interesting, that's an interesting point. Yeah, I could see that. I don't know about, like, acquiring position players maybe. You know, I like young players, but I think those are guys they hold on to for their.

John Truepen
Yeah. I don't, you know, like, they're not going to trade Zach gel off or something like that. I mean, that's the challenge with, with the teams that are out of it bad enough for us to know.

Kate Preusser
Yeah.

John Truepen
There's not anybody on.

Kate Preusser
No.

John Truepen
The Chicago White Sox, who is worth trading for, who is an obvious upgrade.

Kate Preusser
Right.

John Truepen
You could maybe say, oh, Tommy pham is, like, better.

Kate Preusser
No.

John Truepen
Right handed hitting well. And again, like, this most recent incident with him just doing a wild slide, it's like, I don't think mariners are gonna do this.

Kate Preusser
No.

John Truepen
But, like, there just aren't, you know, like, that's where I could see a very, like, negligible move. Like, they could get, like, Tim Hill if they're like, we want a ground ball.

Nothing.

Kate Preusser
Yeah, sure.

John Truepen
But, like, yeah, it really is just so hard, right. To pick out, you know, anywhere. Anywhere for a lot of the teams, especially until you get close to the deadline, because it could be the Padres. Are they, you know, slipping out of it? Are the giants slipping out of it and wanting to retool some of these teams that are not terrible but actually have some pieces and recognize, okay, we're not really in it? I think the challenge in the NL is with the, with Atlanta losing Acuna and Strider and just generally not performing as well. Obviously they're still in the playoff hunt and in the, in a position for a wild card spot. But there's going to be more possibilities, I think, for wild card spots this year because three fifths of the NL east is out of it.

Most of the NL Central is still pretty bad, and somehow they've allowed the brewers to just build up a lead again.

I still think the Cubs could come back there, but, you know, so it's really just, the NL west just has to not face plant, and they could still get two or three teams in there. So, like, there's not a ton of incentive to sell on that things, which is from a sport perspective, I think good that you have more teams still trying, but.

But for a Mariners perspective, where suddenly they're in this atypical position of, yeah, we comfortably want to add, you know, yeah, you're. You're basically hoping that Toronto and Boston continue to spiral and frankly, Tampa, I.

Kate Preusser
Okay, so this is what I was going to bring up. I'm surprised everyone is talking about Toronto, which I feel like has a much more locked in situation with the people who are being talked about as trade pieces than Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay.

Tampa Bay needs a short stop of the future. The Mariners have a pile of shortstop prospects in their system. To me, that's the interesting thing. If you want to dream big, if you want to look forward, if you want to be splashy, that's the arena that I think you think about much more so than. I don't know why Toronto kind of caught fire for people.

There must have been. I think there were some comments somewhere that made people think that they were more open for business. No one is open for business right now. It is June. It was just May and now it's barely June.

John Truepen
I think the Toronto smoke is from both from a couple locations. It's from oh yeah, fine. Coming out the gate slow. It's from there being some rumors or talk about them being intro, you know, willing to deal be shet and really most of their roster and it's just I think from looking at the makeup of that team, their entire rotation is, is over 30.

They're good pitchers, but they're not, you know, I don't think you can reliably expect Kevin Gossman to do better than he has been. He's been incredible, but I don't think you can expect him to be better. I don't think you can expect Jose Barrios to be better than he has. But he's having it. At least last I checked, he's been having a solid year. But you're just not, you know, I don't think that there's stuff in their system and I have, I wrote, wrote their system review this, this past winter at BP. They just don't have enough in their system right now to make internal improvements. So if they are going to reset at all, it's a huge shift. Whereas Tampa, I completely agree, they're much more prone to making these sort of deals. They're however, and they're constantly in folks and it's not out of the question that they can trade, you know, for more depth in their system. That's their whole schtick. But also like their top, they have, you know, two of their, I think three top prospects are junior Caminero and Carson Williams, both of whom are ostensibly short. I mean, Carson Williams is definitely a shortstop. Cami narrows, maybe a short stop, maybe a third baseman. But like that's, that's. I think the trick for, for, for that sort of move is like, are you. You know, they'll probably do deals for depth, but like their, their needs are, I think, more on the pitching end of things where the honestly don't, don't have fun as much just because.

Yeah, Tampa. Tampa's had so many injuries in their, in their pitching staff that was, that was meant to carry them.

Evan James
Oh, the guy that everyone was really excited from Tampa for, for the Mariners is a Rosa Ray night. And he's having an atrocious season, too.

John Truepen
Right?

Evan James
Like, in terms of us trading for, you know, like somebody who we're going to bring in is going to be a starter here.

I don't know if they got him. So that's where I'm stuck there, really.

Kate Preusser
Tampa should acquire Griffin Canning.

Absolutely or.

John Truepen
Absolutely.

Kate Preusser
Or the Blue Jays somebody to kind of try to fight their way up through that AL east because third place in the AL east is going to be good enough for a wild card spot still, because that's just such a tough division. I don't know, really, this was key way to just sneak in. The thing about trade so I can bang my trade stick and say, no, not yet.

John Truepen
Yeah, I definitely do think they trade for a backup catcher again, especially just because they don't have one on the roster. I feel like they don't have a third catcher on the 40 man at the moment.

Kate Preusser
I'll be very curious to see if they roll garver out at catcher as any, or if that was like a one off, if they roll him out for any of these road trip games. And again, we're looking at, I know it was like, oh, 17 game stretch and then we have an off day. It's another 13 games. They're going to play 30 games in 31 days. That is brutal.

And I feel like at the end of this, this next 13 game stretch, we'll have an even better idea of, like, what this team is and what their needs are going forward and, you know, probably a better idea about the rest of the division as well. As far as the Rangers and Astros go, although I think the Astros have a pretty easy schedule going forward, don't they?

John Truepen
It's very possible. I do think, you know, it's not, by no means is it, is it sort of full cakewalk. But the Mariners do have the weakest strength of schedule remaining, followed by the Angels, followed by Houston. So it is, I think the AL west has had a tough stretch out of the gate, and that hopefully is going to improve. Just, they have ten more against the Angels, ten more against the A's, and then seven, you know, ten more against the White Sox and Marlins, and they get to play the Mets.

Kate Preusser
The Rangers also get to play the Mets this, but they also have to do a three game set with the Dodgers and a four game set with the Orioles to close out the month. So they've got some easy ones in there. They're playing Detroit right now.

They get the Giants, which we play them, and they get their time against the Mets and, and the Royals, who have been very tricky, and then Milwaukee and Baltimore to end the month. So that could be a separator coming into July. But that is when I want to next talk about trades.

John Truepen
We'll see about that. We'll see about that.

I think we're going to wrap here in a moment. But I did have two names I wanted to throw out there internally that the Mariners have prospect wise, who I do think there's at least a shot at seeing them this year.

I would not say it's high likelihood, but these are just people who I have seen at least who have been performing or doing something or I have seen in the past perform who with, like, you know, a better month. With like a good month. I could see being in that conversation.

And those are both pitcher, two relief pitchers in Arkansas right now. And that's Jimmy Joyce, who I think is, by no means again, these are, can fill out the back of the, of the bullpen. These are not people I'm expecting to come up and, and electrify, but Jimmy Joyce, who's got sort of low nineties heat and some decent off speed and I believe is a dirs favorite, if I'm not mistaken, as well, due to, I believe Hofstra shared Hofstra affinity or affiliation.

And then the other is Troy Taylor, who was absolutely electric in Everett, has, I think, sort of, he's tightrope, walked a little bit in Arkansas, more than fully earned it, but has even better heat and really, really gets ground balls, which is something that the Mariners don't have a lot of in their bullpen or in the rotation. But particularly, I think it's something they've tried to find in their bullpen where possible.

And Taylor is someone that they, I believe, went six figures on to sign. They actually drafted him twice, and he didn't sign the first time, and then either he signed the second time or they signed him as an undrafted free agent with, with a decent bonus. I can't recall exactly what it was, but he's. He is someone that I am a little bit more. Yes, he was a 12th rounder in 2022 for six figures, and I just, I think he is the, he has the best stuff of a current upper miners reliever who could sort of move more quickly. So if you're looking for any internal option from the pitching side of things, I think that's who you would look for beyond Evans, which I just, as we've talked about already, I wouldn't do well. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in.

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Thank you to Kate, thank you to Evan for joining us today.

And until next time.

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And For My Last Trick - Victor Robles? Meet at the Mitt Podcast

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