Breaking Ground: Where are all the jobs?

This episode explores the massive influx of federal funding into the semiconductor industry in Phoenix, Arizona, examining its immediate impact on local employment and training opportunities.

1. Massive federal investments are reshaping Phoenix's economic landscape, particularly in the semiconductor sector.
2. Short-term training programs are rapidly preparing locals for technician roles, though job availability post-training remains uncertain.
3. The episode highlights personal transformations, with individuals looking to change their life trajectories through new career paths.
4. There is a significant delay between training completion and employment, highlighting a gap in the employment pipeline.
5. Community support programs play a crucial role in aiding participants' transitions into new careers.

1: Introduction

Kyle Risdahl introduces the focus on Phoenix's burgeoning semiconductor industry, fueled by federal dollars. The hosts discuss their observations from a local training site. Kyle Risdahl: "It's enormous. A company that salvages trees and cacti from construction sites like TSMCs."

2: Training and Expectations

Discussion on the training programs at community colleges designed to prepare workers quickly for the semiconductor industry. Heather Long: "I guess that's what it takes ten days to learn the basics."

3: Personal Stories

Participants from various backgrounds share their motivations and hopes regarding the training and potential job opportunities. Gabrielle: "And just like you said, building a better life for us."

4: Job Market Realities

Insight into the job placement rates post-training and the challenges faced by the new trainees in securing positions. Heather Long: "But you're right, it's probably not next week."

5: Closing Thoughts

The hosts reflect on the broader economic and social implications of the federal investments and the long-term outlook for the job market in Phoenix. Kyle Risdahl: "It's their long game."

1. For individuals looking into similar training programs, research the job market thoroughly to understand demand and hiring cycles.
2. Community colleges and training centers often have resources and networking opportunities; utilize them to maximize job prospects.
3. Continuously update skills and certifications to remain competitive in rapidly evolving fields like semiconductor manufacturing.
4. Use social services and community programs for support during career transitions, especially in industries with volatile hiring trends.
5. Stay informed about federal and local economic initiatives that could open up new job opportunities.

Phoenix is on track to become a national hub for semiconductor production. The city has had lots of help: billions in funding from the Biden administration and buy-in from major chipmakers like TSMC and Intel. One thing they still need, though, is workers — 70,000 nationwide. Training programs are already preparing folks for entry-level chip technician positions. But where are all those promised jobs?

People

Kyle Risdahl, Heather Long, Gabrielle, Danelle, Brad Ehlers, Adriana Arroyo

Companies

Intel, TSMC, Pacsi

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

Kyle Risdahl
Change is hard, yes, but it can take a long time, too. From american public media, this is marketplace in Los Angeles, I'm Kyle Risdahl. It is Thursday today, the 2 May. Good as always to have you along, everybody. Washington Post columnist Heather Long and I have been reporting the past couple of days on what's happening in Phoenix, Arizona, a city on the receiving end of billions of dollars from the ChipS act.

It's our series breaking ground, how billions of dollars in federal money are changing this economy in complicated and invisible and sometimes contradictory ways. Like a lot of federal investments in this economy, though, things are not going to change overnight. It's all about, and you've heard me say this a lot over the past couple of days, the long game so far. We visited a construction site where TSMC is building three new factories. Looks like an airplane hangar, except on, you know, steroids or something.

Kai Ryssdal
It's enormous. A company that salvages trees and cacti from construction sites like TSMCs. That tree is called an ironwood tree, and it's about $8,000 and a training. Center for the local pipefitters union that is bursting at the seams. Things look better for us now than they have in over 30 years.

Kyle Risdahl
The scale of this investment in the semiconductor industry is enormous. Tens of billions of dollars in federal grants and loans, billions more from the companies themselves. And that's just in the past month. The plan is that that money will transform manufacturing in the United States and will change the direction of this economy, which is something only federal dollars can do, that is government in the economy.

But there's also transformation happening at the personal level, and the show today is about that. Here we are at Maysett Community College. Why are we here? This is one of the biggest programs in the country right now, training entry level jobs, what are called technicians for the semiconductor industry. And they have something called the quick start, which is a ten day course.

Heather Long
I guess that's what it takes ten days to learn the basics. One imagines the very basics, the very basics. But a lot of it is just, you have to put on the bunny suit. And we know, I mean, playboy bunny suit, it's white. You have to learn all the different tools and most importantly, just learn.

I think a lot of people. Are they comfortable doing things with their hands? As silly as it sounds, this is a generation that hasn't grown up, in many cases, working with their hands. Intel and TSMC and other chipmakers helped develop this program with Maricopa community colleges. And if students pass the final exam, most do it's free for Arizona residents.

Kyle Risdahl
It's supposed to help them get a foot in the door of these new factories with their super clean, temperature controlled rooms and bunny suits. Those head to toe coveralls meant to keep dust and hair and microscopic contaminants off the chips. What are you expecting to see as we go sit in on this class that we're gonna go sit in on? Well, we've been told that we're gonna see a lot of different ages and coming from all different types of backgrounds. But to me, I'm most interested, did they really want to be here or did they sort of stumble into it?

Kai Ryssdal
Yeah, we should say here, the need is vast, right? TSMC and intel are gonna hire like 7500 workers, and this is where they're gonna start, right? Is that the plan? Yes. These technician jobs, which do not require a college degree, but do require some training.

Heather Long
Like what? We're about to see a note of caution here. We were at the TSMC plant for a very brief moment until we got thrown out. That plant's not gonna start actually making chips for, let's be generous, 18 months. So these folks finished this ten day course.

Kai Ryssdal
They're not necessarily gonna have a job. It's one of the big conundrums right now, right. That hiring needs to happen so, so fast. But we're sort of in a stall, period. Everybody knows it's coming.

Heather Long
But you're right, it's probably not next week. All right, let's go ahead and see what they said.

Kyle Risdahl
This is the first day of the ten day session at Mesa Community College. Classes run from 430 to 830 in the evening. Kai Rusdal. How are you? It's a pleasure to meet you.

Kai Ryssdal
It's my colleague, Heather. Heather. Hi. I like the green. Adriana Arroyo is in charge of education, career and financial management at Fresh Start Women's foundation.

Kyle Risdahl
That's a nonprofit here in town that helps women build independence through job training and other services. And this class is filled entirely with students from fresh start. We just welcomed our 6th cohort of semiconductor women. Who are these women? These women are absolutely incredible.

Adriana Arroyo
They are women who are single moms, women that may have experienced domestic abuse. They are women that are our moms, our sisters, our aunts, our cousins that really realize there's an opportunity in front of them. And are many of them getting jobs right now? We hear hiring is a little slow. So it is, you know, it's one of those that we are always managing expectations.

I was just doing the welcome for our students and I said I was liKe, look, we're here for the entire journey. Whether you get the job right after you finish during our interview day or. It takes you a little while. 39% of our women have been placed, and they're working at places like intel, Pacsi, TSmc. And how did this program come about?

Heather Long
How did it get started? You know, fresh start has Had a very long mission of empowering women. You know, we started off with haircuts and just realized that we needed to evolve. And so now we offer FAMILY law support, social work support, where they can do success coaching. So when it came to semiconductor, we were just like, it's growing.

Adriana Arroyo
There's tons of construction around. TSMC is still working on their building. InteL's Here, and we want to be able for our women to get a piece of the pie.

Heather Long
Have you tried on the bunny suit? I have not. And I have been Waiting. I have red lipstick and all ready. Let's go.

Kai Ryssdal
Come on. Let's do it. Let's go get some money. Starts to wait. Let's go.

Where are we going? You're in charge.

Kyle Risdahl
Adriana walked us into a classroom with whiteboards on the walls and a dozen or so women sitting at desks with computers. Does anybody have a pen?

Brad Ehlers at the teachers lectern. He worked at intel for 23 years and has had a part time gig teaching this course for about two. Oh, no, wait. We're gonna do some introductions, right? The women in this class are looking for better jobs.

Yes, but more, too. I've just kind of been scraping by. Finding contract jobs here and there. This would be a second career for me. I have an 18 year old son.

On the autism spectrum, and so now. I'm here trying to make a career out of it and better my life for me and my daughter.

Kyle Risdahl
A couple hours into class, when Brad called for a break, we chatted with a few of them outside.

Kai Ryssdal
Hi, Gabrielle. How are you? Hello. I'm doing good. I'm kind.

Nice to see you. How are you? Guess we're trying to get the sun out, right? Well, get sun out of your eyes. Anyway.

He's got sunglasses on. Oh, lucky. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Why are you here? I'm here because I recently just left my husband in February, and I have a ten month old, so I just needed, you know, some ink.

Gabrielle
And I have some friends that work at intel as a semiconductor. They just actually took this course right before spring break. They told me about the opportunity. I said, hey, you know, intel's hiring. You should jump on the semiconductor course.

And now I'm here. And you're hoping to get a job out of here? Absolutely. Do you have a technical background at all? Actually, I don't.

I guess I did pharmacy tech, but that's as techie as it gets, really. They said that anyone can do it, so, I mean, if you put your mind to anything, you know, you really can. True. And what about. Do you think this will really lead to a better life for you and your child?

Heather Long
A better paying job? Both, actually. So I was actually a stay at home mom for five years. I did raise two of my step kids. So, yeah, this is just a whole new way of life for me and my ten month old.

Gabrielle
And just like you said, building a. Better life for us. So, Gabriella, thanks a bunch. Thank you. Thank you.

Kai Ryssdal
Your turn. Tell me who you are. My name is Danelle, and I came to fresh start. So I've been in an abusive relationship for 24 years, all physical, mentally, emotionally. I'm in the middle of a divorce right now.

So I came to fresh start for, really, a new start, but to be able to be independent for myself. I have a 15 year old son, and I want to be just not to be dependent on any man anymore, to be able to just make it for myself and to help him through college. What kind of job do you hope to get out of this? You know, just. I honestly, I was looking into, like, intel or TSMC, and, you know, for years, I ran a residential general contracting company, building new homes and remodeling them.

So maybe eventually, way down the road, getting into, like, a management position. Have you seen the factories? Have you driven by TSMC and intel? I have, actually. So I have a friend who is a.

A foreman electrician, and he was the first foreman for his company up at TSMC. So I've driven by both of them, so they're amazing. I am. I'm so excited. I think we have to let you get back to class.

Kai Ryssdal
I don't want to make it late. Brad will yell at me. Okay. Thank you, guys. Take it easy.

Kyle Risdahl
We heard that a lot. I'm so excited. Remember, though, these would be entry level jobs, helping more skilled workers with chip production and maintaining equipment. But they pay more than $20 an hour, plus benefits, with opportunities to grow into even better jobs. That's the hope that brought these women here.

It's their long game.

Coming up. What happened after that two week course?

With access to so much information, it's hard to feel like an informed, discerning citizen. That's why on make me smart, which is a podcast from Marketplace. We make it easy for you to stay in the know. Hi, I'm Kai Risdahl. Every weekday, Kimberly Adams and I unpack the latest from Washington, DC.

H
The Senate minority leader has announced that he will step down as the republican leader. What's happening in AA? I mean, don't buy at the top, but holy cow, artificial intelligence and all the companies related to it are the hot new thing. And we do the numbers so as a refresher. Inflation is the rate of increase in the prices of things.

It's not just sort of things getting more expensive, it's the speed at which things get more expensive. Because in a world that's constantly changing, we all need to stay smart. Listen, to make me smart. Wherever you get your podcasts, this is Marketplace. I'm Kai Risdahl.

Kyle Risdahl
That class we visited with a dozen women trying to get foot in the door of the semiconductor industry wrapped up ten days after Washington Post columnist Heather Long and I left.

Hi, Gabrielle, it's Kyle Brisdahl. How are you? Hi. And Heather long here, too. Thanks for joining us.

I
Yeah, no problem. So a couple of weeks later, with Heather in a studio in Washington, DC and me in a studio in LA, we called Gabriella while she was picking her aunt up from the airport. So much happened all at once, and I ended up being the driver, and I didn't even know I was going to be driving around today. Well, we're here. Yeah.

Kyle Risdahl
So, look, so just tell us about the course. What'd you learn how to go after day one? What was it like? Yeah, the course was pretty easy. It was just a lot of basically familiarizing yourself with different types of tools, such as, like wrenches, the sockets, basic material I was able to pass.

I
Of course, a lot of people did. I think everyone asked, what was it. Like putting on that bunny suit? Can you visualize yourself doing this? Yeah, the bunny suit was actually kind of comfortable.

We went ahead and, you know, played like a mock type of deal of how we would put it on in the actual setting. But, yeah, it was, it was pretty cool. It was a neat and new experience. How's the job hunt going? Honestly, not too well.

That was kind of disappointing. Everyone, like their instructor was from intel. I know people from fresh start were really pushing intel and TSMC, but I feel like after our class, we almost didn't have anyone come to our career fair. I guess afterwards, because there isn't really much hiring as of right now. With that chip sack that Biden had, I really thought that that would kick into gear.

Rumor has it that hopefully in the summer, so hopefully they'll be hiring for that when the money starts kicking in and they kind of know what to do with it. Even my friends who did work at intel, they're holding on, trying to hold onto their job, but kind of disappointing. How long are you going to stick it out before you decide to, like, try to find another field? Oh, goodness. Honestly, I've been just trying to apply with recruiters.

Like I said, I'm not getting anything back for the semiconductor. I'll be honest. I'm actually looking for other positions. I'm looking for remote home jobs. I'm looking.

I just had an interview with Toyota yesterday. I got two more interviews tomorrow with at and T and another work from home company. So, I mean, if semiconductor comes back and the pay is better than what I'm making, then I'll jump ship. But as of right now, not too well. How are you making ends meet right now?

Doordash. Honestly, that's my saving grace. So I'm just doordashing away. And again, like I said, just really applying to other jobs and interviewing as much as I can. I'm really just throwing myself out there to any job that will possibly hire me.

Kyle Risdahl
You're driving for work. You're driving for family, man. That's a drag. Yeah. There's a lot going on in my little world, but it is what it is.

I
You just take it one day at a time. There you go. Thanks for spending part of us with us today. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.

Kyle Risdahl
Take care. You, too. Bye bye.

So that's one of the women in that course. Here is another. So we met you on the first day of that course out of Mesa. How was the rest of it? How was the following couple of weeks?

Oh, it was amazing. Our instructor Brad was great at really just making sure we understood everything. It took a lot of hard work on my part, though, too. That's Danelle. We caught her at home.

Kyle Risdahl
You can hear the dogs in the background. What was the hardest part? I think the time, you know, putting in the time. I know that it was only a two week course, so I did prepare myself for that. And just being able to navigate my daily life.

Do I have it right that you drove an hour plus each way to get to this class? I sure did. It was a long drive, but so worth it. What's the most important thing you learned? You know, one thing I liked the best was reading schematics.

Those were hard, but I really enjoyed it. And I picked it up pretty easy. If I look outside of, like, just the education part, the most important thing I learned was that I can succeed. I can do this if I put my mind to it. How goes the hunt for a job?

So I went to a career fair through fresh start, and I got some leads. They just called me back. I've been working with one of the companies there, and they have a few positions available immediately, but they're 80% travel, so I'm not really open to 80% travel with my son. So they are keeping me updated, and I know they're going to have a few more openings come June and July. So how are you getting by right now, Danielle?

Right now I've been lucky enough that with this whole divorce process, I've been out of a job. I haven't been paid since September, and I'm lucky enough that I have a really close friend of mine who is putting my rent on hold for me till I get a job so I can pay everything back. So without that, I wouldn't have a roof over my head right now. So I'm very thankful for that. And are you pretty confident you can get a job in the semiconductor industry?

I really am going into this field. I didn't really know too much about it, but if someone will give me a chance. I am a really hard worker. I don't want to make too much of this, but this could change your life, right? This really could.

This, it's a whole new career opportunity for me. It will make it so that I'm able to support myself and not, I don't mean to sound mean when I say this, but never have to rely on a man to support me again, so, but it's really life changing for me. I look at it as I know I need to enter into this career field at the bottom, and I'm okay with that, but I just have to work my way up. How much do you think President Biden deserves some credit for what's going on in Phoenix with the semiconductor space? So, you know, I don't follow a lot of politics, but I have heard that it went through that he is going to be giving TSMC.

I can't quote the number, but some billion dollars, something to start another phase. So it'll help myself, there'll be more job openings. So.

Kai Ryssdal
Heather, you good? Yes, thank you. All right, great. Danielle, thank you so much for your time. It's really great to hear that it.

Kyle Risdahl
Went so well with you, and good luck with the job hunt. Oh, thank you. Thank you. So much. I know that the right job will come along.

That's the complicated part of this. Billions of federal dollars are being spent to build semiconductor factories around the country. Just in the past month, intel has been awarded $8.5 billion, TSMC 6.6 billion, and Samsung 6.4 billion. It takes a while for that money to get where it needs to be. Yes, and more is coming, but there aren't a lot of actual jobs yet for people like Gabriella and Danielle here.

Here's the thing that struck me, and it's, well, we talked about this while we were on the ground, right? Everybody here is playing the long game, right? The people who are taking the classes, the companies who are doing the work, the pipefitters unions, the construction companies, and the Biden administration, they're all playing, you know, with various degrees of time. The long game, right? This is going to take a while.

Heather Long
Well, I know we talked about this being the ground zero for the new economy, but we're still in early stages. There's a reason it's ground zero. It feels like in 510 years, this industry will be huge for the US and certainly for the Phoenix area. But you could hear the frustration in these workers voices that they went to career fairs and almost no companies are there. And it just feels like everything's in a holding pattern.

What's purgatory in the economy? I don't know.

Kyle Risdahl
I want you to talk for a second about why the Biden administration believes these investments are important. The phrase I'm thinking of here is industrial base. Right? That's what the president's banking on. Definitely.

Heather Long
Obviously, President Biden always talking about the jobs, jobs, jobs, and not just jobs, but good jobs and good careers. Even as these workers were telling us that, okay, maybe it starts at a 25, 20, or $25 an hour. They see room to grow quickly to a $30 to $35 an hour plus benefit job for the country, though. I mean, Biden doesn't talk about this as often, but I think what I've learned from our trip to Phoenix and talking to people, this is more than about trying to produce the lowest cost semiconductors in the world or just trying to produce a physical item. There's also national security concerns.

And having this industry back in the United States is about more than just dollars and cents and jobs. It's also about protecting the future of our economy. There will be people who will hear this story and say, wait a second, wait a second. TSMC is a multibillion dollar company. It's spending something like 50 or $60 billion worth of its own money.

Kyle Risdahl
Why does it need money from american taxpayers to be convinced that this is a good idea? It's so true, Kai. And obviously, TSMC is a good example because they announced their first plant there in Phoenix in, I believe it was May 2020. So before any of this money was passed and on the table. So you do sort of scratch your head, but the counter to that is they are now, and you and I, solid on the ground.

Heather Long
They are now building two more factories than what they had initially planned to do. And I have to give some credit to the Biden administration in the sense that they argued that if the United States government put a little bit of money in, that companies would then put even more in. And that so far, is what we've seen. And I do think there's been enough invested and enough built already that these companies aren't just going to turn around and walk away, even if things really change in the world or in the economy in the next couple of years. Yeah, it's worth pointing out there are already shovels in the ground.

Kyle Risdahl
And as we saw out at that TSMC plant, they're well on their way to actually building those fabs. I think it's interesting, though, that the CEO of intel, Pat Gelsinger, said not too long ago, this was actually why we were there. I saw this. We're going to need a chips act. Two, right?

Chips, two more money. Yeah, they already want the sequel, that's for sure. More money, more potential. But what about you, Kai? What stood out to you?

Heather Long
You were there, too. The thing that hit me about it was the scale, first of all, literally, the sheer size of that TSMC plant. I mean, you know, again, we were only in the parking lot, so we could only see one facet of it, but it went far beyond that thing we could see, and it was ginormous. The other thing, though, on scale is the time we spent with the pipefitters union and how they talked about how they are literally pulling people in from other states. They have more work than they know what to do with.

Kyle Risdahl
Their enrollment is way, way up in these jobs that as I can't remember his name, but the guy who used to be the teacher and left teaching, and now he's making three or four times what he did in the classroom, working a union job in Phoenix, it was super interesting to me that that is the scale of this kind of. Work, you know, and the life transforming nature of it. Totally a life transforming job. That's what Gabriella and Danielle want to change their place in this economy.

Transformation is what the federal government is looking for, too. That's why it's investing in semiconductor companies in Phoenix to change the shape of manufacturing in the United States. But it is going to take decades to know whether those bets are going to pay off.

Coming up next time on our series, breaking ground. We have 4000 homes right now within 1 mile radius of this site. Ten years ago we had 400. I was just gonna say nothing. One neighborhood going through a transformation of its own.

This final note on the way out today, just to close the loop, as of this week, only one of the twelve students in that class that Heather and I went to had gotten a job with TSMC. Dan El is still working her way through the interview process for another semiconductor company. It is, as we said, the long game. John Buckley, John Gordon, Noya Carr, Diantha Parker, Amanda Pietra and Stephanie Siek are the marketplace editing staff. Amir Bibawe is the managing editor.

I'm Kai Rizdahl. We will see you tomorrow, everybody.

This is 08:00 p.m. With access to so much information, it's hard to feel like an informed, discerning citizen. That's why on make me smart, which is a podcast from Marketplace, we make it easy for you to stay in the know. Hi, I'm Kai Risdahl. Every weekday, Kimberly Adams and I unpack the latest from Washington, DC.

H
The Senate minority leader has announced that he will step down as the republican leader. What's happening in AI? I mean, don't buy at the top, but holy cow. Artificial intelligence and all the companies related to it are the hot new thing. And we do the numbers so as a refresher.

Inflation is the rate of increase in the prices of things. It's not just sort of things getting more expensive, speed at which things get more expensive. Because in a world that's constantly changing, we all need to stay smart. Listen to make me smart. Wherever you get your podcast.

Kyle Risdahl
Wherever you get your podcast.