This professor has an OnlyFans. Should he be fired?

This episode of the "Kim Komando Show" explores the controversial dismissal of a university chancellor who started an OnlyFans account with his wife, sparking debates about privacy, employment, and digital expression.

1. Joe Gow's Transition: Initially a respected chancellor, Joe's shift to content creation on OnlyFans led to his dismissal due to perceived misjudgments by the university.
2. Freedom of Expression: The episode raises critical questions about freedom of expression and its limits within professional settings, especially in academia.
3. Impact of Digital Platforms: It illustrates how digital platforms can amplify personal activities into public spectacles that affect one's career and personal life.
4. Societal Norms and Digital Privacy: Discusses the evolving norms of privacy and expression in a digital-centric world.
5. Legal and Ethical Implications: Explores the legal battles and ethical considerations of maintaining a side business that might conflict with professional responsibilities.

1: Introduction to the Controversy

Overview of Joe Gow and Carmen Wilson's journey from academic professionals to controversial figures due to their OnlyFans activities. Kim Commando: "So Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson, they are a married couple, they like to make sexy videos."

2: The Firing and Its Aftermath

Discussion on the immediate and extended impacts of the university's decision to fire Joe. Joe Gow: "They called me into a Zoom meeting... seven days later, I got an email saying, you're fired."

3: The Battle for Tenure

Details the couple's fight to protect Joe's tenured position amidst ongoing institutional challenges. Carmen Wilson: "This is about the tenured faculty position. They're trying to strip him of his tenure."

1. Consider the Consequences: Always evaluate how personal activities might be perceived in professional contexts.
2. Know Your Rights: Understand the legal protections and limitations of your employment, especially concerning digital content creation.
3. Maintain Professional Boundaries: Keep personal and professional lives distinct when possible to avoid conflicts.
4. Seek Legal Counsel: In disputes, especially involving employment and personal freedoms, professional legal advice is crucial.
5. Engage in Open Dialogues: Foster discussions about digital privacy and expression within your community or organization.

Joe Gow and Carmen Wilson have a spicy side gig making adult videos. They were happy, and everything was going great — until Joe's other job found out. Joe was the Chancellor at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. Because of the side hustle, the university ousted him from that role, and now he's fighting to keep his tenured professor position.

People

Joe Gow, Carmen Wilson

Companies

University of Wisconsin La Crosse

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Joe Gow, Carmen Wilson

Content Warnings:

None

Speaker A
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Speaker B
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Kim Commando
Hey, it's Kim Commando today, your daily podcast to keep you up to date with all things digital and beyond. And I'd love to have you be a part of our podcast. You can make an appointment to speak with me. Just head over to commando.com. and on the top right, there's a button that says email, Kim. Fill that out, and that's it.

Hey, it's Kim Commando today. It's your fun podcast about all things digital. And what's different about the Kim commando show versus Kim Commando today is that Kim Commando today is a place where we can actually talk to people. I mean, not just like, talk to everyday people. I mean, talk to people that have things going on in the news. And then joining me, as always, is Andrew Babinski. Hi there, Andrew.

Speaker A
Hello, Kim. How are you?

Kim Commando
So we're gonna be talking to a couple in just a few minutes about their OnlyFans account. Have you ever thought about getting an Onlyfans account?

Speaker A
Not for 1 NS. I've actually. And this is, this is the honest truth. I've never been on Onlyfans. I don't know how it works. I don't know if you pay monthly. I don't know if you pay per view. I've never used OnlyFans.

Kim Commando
I've never gone there either. But I do have a grandmotherly friend of the family, and she's on only nans.

Speaker A
I've been there. I love only nans. That's a great site.

Kim Commando
So Joe Gao and Carmen Wilson, they are a married couple, and they like to make sexy videos. And they started an OnlyFans account last fall, and they called themselves the sexy happy couple, and they quickly grew to 10,000 subscribers. They say that they just do it for fun. Okay. They're having a great time at it. And, you know, they're obviously a happily married couple. Okay. Now, gow at the time was a chancellor at the University of Wisconsin La Crosse and university found out about the videos in the OnlyFans account. And then Joe was fired from his chancellor position for what? The university says this is a, quote, failure to demonstrate appropriate judgment, decision making and leadership.

So he was fired for that.

But Joe's also a tenured professor at the same university, and they're trying to fire him from that job, too. So Joe and Carmen are here right now to talk to us all about it. So how did you get started on OnlyFans? Where did the idea come from?

Joe Gow
Well, hi, Kim. We're delighted to be with you. And Andrew and Harvin's here. Hello as well. And, you know, I guess we ought to start out by saying we're not the typical OnlyFans people. We didn't set out to make money from this. It was a hobby that we enjoyed. And we thought, like, let's see what happens if we put it on OnlyFans. And, you know, when they fired me as chancellor, it drew so much attention that we went from, like, three people following us to 10,000 overnight. Really?

Yeah. It was quite unusual. And as I say, it's not our primary thing. And so we don't do a lot of people on OnlyFans. They do what's called custom content, where they interact with people who pay them to do x, y or z and interact. Our thing is, we just made some videos over the years, about a ten year period, and we thought, well, maybe people would want to see them and see if they like them.

Carmen Wilson
So we started out making the videos purely for our own home library. We were not intending to release them in any way, shape or form until last fall. And Joe had decided, we had decided that he would step down from his chancellor position at the end of the academic year and go back to the classroom. And he'd been a very successful, long serving chancellor, and it seemed like the right time to step back.

And I had been in higher education administration myself, and that I had some pretty negative experiences recently. And I decided that I was no longer interested in that kind of a career path. And so we were thinking, well, what next? And I like to cook. I do vegan cooking. And, you know, we've made these videos with adult talent, and we combine the vegan cooking with the sex scene. And so we thought, why not put these out there? We put them out on onlyfans and loyal fans. And really, as Joe said, nobody really cared. You know, a few people would watch them.

And then the universities of Wisconsin administration discovered our videos. Somehow someone told them, and he was fired. And their publicity led to, you know, just a huge increase in people watching.

Kim Commando
Boy, that's, that's really, that's fascinating to me.

Speaker A
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Kim Commando
How did the university come to. Did they, did they sit you guys down? Did they sit you down, Joe? Or did they send you an email or how did they notify you?

Joe Gow
Well, they called me into a Zoom meeting, and they said, we have a personnel situation we want to discuss. Now, I've been. I was chancellor for 16 years, so I did lots of personnel situations. And I knew the attorney, and there was a person from their HR, and then they began asking, well, is this, we heard you have these videos and books. Is that true? And so I was like, oh, okay. You found out, you know, and explained what we were doing.

And I thought maybe they'd say, well, we have a problem with that, and you should take them down and, you know, that kind of thing. But what happened was seven days later, I got an email saying, you're fired. And they also put out a statement to the media about how horrible and disgusting we are. And of course, when you do that, everybody wants to find out, what. What is it?

Speaker A
So now I have a question. You said no one was subscribing before the publicity. And then afterwards, do you charge for the page?

Joe Gow
Yeah, because, well, you have to.

Carmen Wilson
Well, we charge. There are different ways that it can be set up, but on the paid wall sites, you have to put a price of some kind. We charge per video.

And so once a person would purchase a video, they have it, you know, forever.

So it's. They. They can watch it as many times as they like.

Joe Gow
And the sites, of course, they need to have a percentage that they take. So that's why you. You can't give it away.

Speaker A
Right. Okay, that makes sense. And then you also said you wrote a couple of books. Were those posted for sale online in conjunction with the OnlyFans page before? What is the timeline there?

Joe Gow
No, that was, we put out the first book in 2016.

And then we wrote a second book in about, I think, 2019, 2018 and put those on Amazon. But we use pen names. And there, too, you have to have a certain price. And the books, even today, nobody really cares about the books. It's kind of striking how people, our society now is just so much more video oriented than print oriented.

Kim Commando
So you get fired.

Do you go see a lawyer at that point?

Joe Gow
Well, you know, they launched this big investigation into me, the university system, and they hired some outside, outside attorneys and forensic computer experts, and very intimidating. And I've been around this a little bit. Their gambit is they want me to go hire a lawyer and start spending a lot of money on legal fees. And then they come back and say, well, let's settle this, and we'll, you know, pay your fees and you retire. And I wasn't interested in, you know, going down that path. I think there's a real principle here. You know, people forget we work at universities, and universities are supposed to be very staunch advocates for free speech and expression. And so that's what this is really about. Although we just finished some hearings the other day, and that was not about free speech. It was all about, you know, what did we do when, where, how, you know. But to answer your question, I defended myself there, and I think I did pretty well. And Carmen was by my side and my advisor. And we're waiting now to learn what the hearing committee is going to recommend.

Speaker A
So when you say you defended your.

Kim Commando
Go ahead, Andrew.

Speaker A
So when you say you're defending yourself, you're fighting to be able to keep your position as the chancellor and saying that your free speech was violated by them firing you.

Carmen Wilson
No, he's. He's. He was fired as chancellor, and we accepted that.

Speaker A
Okay.

Carmen Wilson
There's some debate about whether, as chancellor, he would have the right to free speech and expression under this instance. This is about the tenured faculty position. They're trying to strip him of his tenure. And so the hearing was in front of a faculty hearing committee over two days yesterday and the day before to see if he should retain his tenure. And so he represented himself before that faculty hearing committee. If the committee.

Well, the committee makes a recommendation to the interim chancellor, the interim chancellor, who, by the way, brought the charges against him. The interim chancellor makes her recommendation to the president of the system, who was the person who initially filed the complaint to have him stripped of tenure. That person then makes a recommendation to the board of regents, and then they, he would have a hearing in front of them. I mean, presuming the recommendation is that he should be stripped of tenure. Then there would be a hearing at the board of regents. At that point.

You know, we would. We would reconsider. We would potentially reconsider bringing an attorney in to that.

Kim Commando
So what does that mean, being stripped of tenure? I'm not familiar because I've never worked in a university setting.

Joe Gow
Well, you are hired, and then you're evaluated for five or six years, and you have to show that you're a good teacher and researcher and do some service. And then they say, okay, you have tenure, and then that means to be fired from your job, you have to do something pretty much illegal or engage in serious harassment or do bad things.

Carmen Wilson
To people, violate your academic code of ethics, your academic area code of ethics, for example.

Joe Gow
And so really what we're seeing is, does us putting videos on OnlyFans rise to that level? And I would just say that this is 2024.

And they often cite this Supreme Court case from 2004 about a San Diego police officer who put sexual videos onto eBay, and the Supreme Court ultimately ruled he could get fired. But that was 20 years ago. Twitter didn't exist.

YouTube didn't exist, none of the platforms. And I think we've got to come to grips with that, that this is a modern era where people are going to do all kinds of things on social media. Should that be regulated or not? And how and by whom.

Speaker A
Now, knowing what you know now, what you guys have experienced through this entire process, in the first interview, if they would have said, hey, can you just take the stuff down? Hopefully, nobody will find it, and we'll move on. Would you have agreed to that then?

Joe Gow
You know, I guess I'm 63 years old, and Carmen's a little younger than me, and so I'm at a point in my career and life where I want to be who I really am. And so I don't know that we would have accepted that deal.

Speaker A
Okay.

Kim Commando
Was there anything in, like, an employment agreement, a contract, anything that you signed that they can bring up to you to say, hey, listen, you agreed that you would not do x, y, or z.

Carmen Wilson
So often in these kinds of positions, there's a morality clause, particularly at private institutions, but not at public institutions. So there was nothing like that in Cho's contract as a chancellor.

Joe Gow
There is a vague phrase that says, you can't do anything inconsistent with the mission of the university.

They tend to say that this was inconsistent. I would argue that the mission of the university is to find the truth and disseminate the truth. And so we're doing something that is really important, because consider how many people look at adult content. I mean, it's more popular than Netflix, some of these sites. And so we ought to be talking about that.

Kim Commando
Well, you know, when you talk about morality, I was thinking about the frat houses and the frat parties.

Joe Gow
Yeah, you know, that's funny, Kim, because we have been contacted by students or people who are former students that say, you know, I put myself through college doing stuff like onlyfans, and I think one guy was actually on it. So it's not like the students wouldn't be familiar with this.

Speaker A
And also, too, I mean, it's only fans you have to. That is a specific niche website. Like you said, 10,000 people are watching or downloading your videos. It's not like it's 330 million. It's. It's a very private thing that's not public. For them to blow up and take away your tenure, it sounds such, like such a severe punishment.

Kim Commando
Well, that really does.

Joe Gow
I'm glad you see it that way.

Kim Commando
It does.

Speaker A
It's better over here.

Speaker B
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Speaker C
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Joe Gow
Well, we're waiting to get the faculty report, and I wish I could say I feel confident that they will say, don't have fire them. I think they'll probably come in a sort of muddy way, like, we're not sure. And then that means the administration really can do what they want to do. And I think they will continue their campaign, and there will be a hearing before the board of regents. And at that one, as Carmen said, we'll likely have legal representation. And we're going to continue to fight this because we think it's an important principle.

Speaker A
If you lose in the system, because it sounds like everything you're working through is in the educational system, if you are at the end, you lose your tenure, you're no longer employed. Are your plans then to take it further to other courts, district courts, federal courts?

Joe Gow
Well, there have been people who have said that might be possible. I think really, we talk a lot about what kind of life do we want to have, and what we really enjoy doing is what we're doing right now. We love to have great conversations about these issues, and so we would be delighted to travel and go to other campuses and do more media and keep talking about these important issues. And I don't know if there are people who say we could bring a lawsuit and do it on a contingency basis and that might happen, but it wouldn't be really our primary mission.

Speaker A
Okay.

Carmen Wilson
Correct.

Kim Commando
You know, I have a question about the content of the videos.

Like, you mentioned that, you know, you do some vegan cooking, and then there's the sex scene.

Is it pretty much just what you might envision as, like, I want to use the word like and use air quotes like regular sex? I mean, there's, like, nothing. Is there, like, anything, like, weird going on that the university's like, oh, well, that really was bad.

Carmen Wilson
No, I mean, it is very regular sex. Yes.

I think the weirdest thing is that for many of the videos, we bring in talent from the adults entertainment industry, and we do a cooking show with them, which you can see on YouTube under sexy, healthy cooking without the sex.

And so we cook some vegan meal, and then once I get it in the oven, we say, and now we're going to break and show this scene that we shot yesterday, you know, and so on YouTube, it's like, if you want to see this, you have to go to another site.

And then we come back after the sex scene and, wow, that was fun. And here's the finished vegan meal. And, you know, let's have a glass of wine and enjoy this great food, you know, and then we end. So that's. That's how it goes. But the sex part is really very regular.

Joe Gow
And one of the best comments, and we've gotten a lot of great comments because people, they find it. We didn't know this going into it, but because we made these just for ourselves initially, we did what we want to do. And so it's very genuine in a way that a lot of stuff that you would encounter is contrived now. Everything's always staged to some degree or another, but one person said, wow, your videos are hot in a wholesome way.

And we. That was kind of nice. And then you get a lot of these. I can watch this with my partner.

Thank you. You know, it's amazing. There are some people who think it's fantastic, and then there's these other people who are out to get me fired, who, like, it's disgusting and horrible.

Speaker A
All right, I just have a quick one because I'm just curious, out of my own curiosity. You said you hire performers. How does that process work and what it costs to bring someone in to do a video like that?

Joe Gow
Well, we get the good fortune of getting on with a professional studio pretty early on that we hired to shoot just the two of us with real high production values. And then through that studio, they are in touch with the talent agencies, and then you can hire people. And, you know, we prefer people closer to our age.

Speaker A
Okay.

Joe Gow
So it's a little bit of a challenge, you know, because so many people in that industry are younger, but there are some really great folks who've been around it for a long time. And it's been just so cool because you're working with people with degrees from, you know, MIT, Arizona State, Cal Berkeley, USC. I mean, it's a very educated, serious group of people, very professional. You know, the day starts at 08:00 a.m. and then goes till five. And we ought to say we shoot the cooking on one day and the sex scene on the other, because to try to do both of those things in one day, particularly for Carmen, would be a lot of work.

Carmen Wilson
But one of our goals is, as we do the cooking, we interview the talent. And one of our goals for those interviews is to really show how.

Just to humanize those folks. Because, you know, people don't, you know, a porn star, you know, what is that? I mean, there are people just like us. They go to the grocery store. You know, they have families, some, and, you know, they went to school and, you know, so it's. It's really nice just to have a. Just basic conversation to get to know them.

Kim Commando
So how much money are you making a month doing this?

Joe Gow
Well, we should preface that by saying that each one of the videos probably cost about $6,000 to make. We made way like, 1520 over the years.

And so we've spent a good deal of our money.

We have not made that back yet, but onlyfansheende these days, we probably make three $4,000 a month. I mean, we have great respect for people who really are working at it every day, all day, and who make a lot of money. We also have great respect for people on YouTube that can make that go because that's really hard to generate revenue because it's through advertising, and you have to have millions of views there.

Kim Commando
What we say here in the studios is we will look at our YouTube revenues and we'll say, okay, so is that like twelve avocado toasts or is that right?

Carmen Wilson
Yeah, we might get four Starbucks coffees a month off of YouTube.

Kim Commando
Well, guys, thanks for being here. Please keep us posted on what happens.

Joe Gow
We will do that. This has been a pleasure, Kim and Andrew. And we'll come back anytime you'd like.

Carmen Wilson
Yeah, thanks so much for having us. We're really grateful.

Kim Commando
Well, thanks for being here, guys. Thank you.

Speaker B
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Speaker C
Minimum of four lines for $25 per line per month without a discount using debit or bank account. $5 more per line without auto pay, plus taxes and fees and $10 device connection. Charge phones via 24 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire accounts and continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on a required finance agreement. Due bill credits end if you pay off devices early. Ctmobile.com dot how do you fire that guy?

Kim Commando
He was such nice people. They are nice people. They live in life.

Speaker A
That's all he's doing. He's not trying to hurt anybody. He's not trying to make the university look bad. He's just living his life.

Kim Commando
He's sitting there doing a couple of sexy videos and a cooking show.

Speaker A
What a joke.

Kim Commando
With his wife? Yeah, with his wife.

Speaker A
Oh, and some hired help.

Kim Commando
Some. Well, yeah, them too. Them, too.

So does this make you want to go out and get an OnlyFans account? Cause if it does, I'm just telling you right now, you are going to lose your job. You will. You will.

Speaker A
Have I been tenured? I haven't been tenured here at the Kim commando today. So, yeah, it's in jeopardy. I have to wait.

Kim Commando
Well, you know, unless you, of course, you want to, like, share some of the proceeds.

Speaker A
Oh, there. There's always the spin. There's always that turn with Kim. Commander, do not do that. What? I'm going to profit from it. I think it's a great idea.

Kim Commando
I think we should do that.

I'm still trying to get my feet off of that one website. The foot fetish website. Yeah. You're not a mistake.

Speaker A
You're not making any money off of that either.

Kim Commando
No, no. And I made a mistake, okay? I was sitting there in Hawaii and I had my feet up on the lounge chair, and I took a picture of my feet with the ocean.

And now like, I don't know how many people are doing weird things.

Speaker A
The Internet then attacks.

What's that website called? You want me to mention it again?

Kim Commando
No, please don't. I won't. I promise I won't.

Hey, if you ever run across a story in your local news, you're like, hey, you know what? Okay, if you ever run across a story in your local news or even nationally and you're thinking, oh, wow, that person should be interviewed by Kim Commando, well, here's what you need to do. Go to commando.com, and then up at the top, there's a button that says, ask Kim and just fill out that form, put the link to the story in there, and then we will hunt that person down. Which, speaking of our website, if you haven't been to commando.com lately, oh, my gosh, you are totally missing out. Speaking of money, I actually lowered the amount of advertising on the website.

What?

Yes, lowered the amount of advertising. So go to commando.com komando.com dot. When you're there, hit the link that says free newsletter. Sign up for our free newsletter because you're gonna love that too. And don't forget to tell one person about Kim Commando today. Why? Because knowledge is power, buddy. This program is a copyrighted production of Westar multimedia entertainment and protected by the copyright laws. Any rebroadcast or use of this program for commercial, business, business, economic, or financial purposes without the written permission of Westar multimedia entertainment is strictly prohibited.