Noland Arbaugh is the first Neuralink patient

This episode of the Kim Komando Show features Noland Arbaugh, the first patient to undergo a Neuralink brain-computer interface implant, discussing the impact and technical aspects of the device.

1. Neuralink's brain-computer interface can significantly restore independence to individuals with severe disabilities by enabling control over digital devices directly via thought.
2. The device involves implanting threads with electrodes near neurons in the brain to capture neural intentions and translate them into digital commands.
3. The technology is rapidly advancing, with continuous improvements and updates enhancing its functionality and user interaction.
4. Security concerns regarding hacking are minimal, as the device's connection is highly secure and hacking would provide minimal gain.
5. The broader future potential of Neuralink includes possibly enabling physical movement in paralyzed individuals by bridging damaged neural pathways.

1: Introduction to Neuralink and Noland Arbaugh

Overview of Noland Arbaugh's background, the accident leading to his paralysis, and his decision to join Neuralink's trial. Focuses on the impact of technology on improving quality of life.

• Kim Komando: "When we can use technology to really better someone's life, that it's really the most important use of it."
• Nolan: "I wanted to be the first to test all of that out."

2: Technical Discussion of Neuralink

Detailed explanation of how Neuralink works, including the implantation process, the setup of electrodes, and how the device translates neural activity into digital commands.

• Nolan: "The electrodes are placed near my motor cortex, and when the neurons fire, it picks up those signals."

3: Improvements and Impact

Discussion on how the Neuralink device has improved daily functionalities and overall quality of life, alongside the potential future applications of the technology.

• Nolan: "Now I can send a text in a couple of seconds. It's super easy."

4: Future Prospects and Ethical Considerations

Exploration of Neuralink's future potential, including its role in physical rehabilitation and ethical considerations concerning human enhancement and AI integration.

• Nolan: "My immediate focus is helping handicap people... it's changed my life so much."

1. Stay informed about technological advances in medical devices to better understand potential treatments and aids for disabilities.
2. For those affected by disabilities, explore participating in clinical trials as a way to access emerging technologies that can improve quality of life.
3. Engage with communities and forums discussing medical technology to share experiences and gain support.
4. Regularly check for updates and new studies related to brain-computer interface technologies to keep abreast of safety and effectiveness data.
5. Encourage open dialogues about the ethical implications of integrating advanced technologies with human physiology to prepare society for future implications.

His brain-chip implant lets him control computers and other devices with his mind. Kim Komando talks to Noland about why he got it and how it works. What could this tech mean for the future? He shares his ideas and hopes.

People

Noland Arbaugh, Kim Komando

Companies

Neuralink

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

Kim Commando
Hey, it's Kim Commando today, your daily podcast to keep you up to date with all things digital and beyond. And I'd love to have you be a part of our podcast. You can make an appointment to speak with me. Just head over to commando.com, and on the top right, there's a button that says email. Kim, fill that out, and that's it.

Well, Nolan, thanks for coming down to see us here.

Nolan
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Kim Commando
So, I have to tell you, I've been in tech.

Why? A long time, actually. My mother worked for Bell Labs.

Nolan
Okay.

Kim Commando
And she was, like, one of the inventors of the first video phone.

I know. And so my introduction to tech was probably when I was about eight or nine, when I was watching her test these prototypes and go into Bell Labs. And then I went and I got a degree in computer science and ended up here. Overnight success, of course, right? There's no such thing.

But I am so excited for you. I really am, because when we talk about technology, everybody gets excited. Like, oh, well, we got chat GPT. We have AI that's coming down the pike, but when we can use technology to really better someone's life, that it's really the most important use of it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we can have siri do stuff, maybe understand something every once in a while, right?

We can have Amazon echo speakers. We can have a little robot running around the house.

But when it can actually change a person's life for the better. That's why I was so excited to know that you were coming down to the studios today. Okay. Because you are, like, patient one.

And if we think of the one things that we've had all along, like the first iPhone.

Nolan
Yeah.

Kim Commando
To compare to what it is today. Right. So. But your patient number one with a neuralink BCI, the brain to computer interface. I'm sorry, interface.

What was that like, knowing that you were going to be patient number one?

Nolan
Yeah, it was all right.

There were some pros and cons. I was excited. I mean, it's cool to be the first of anything. I think that drove me a little bit, at least.

I was a little worried that maybe it wouldn't work, there would be some downsides to it because, you know, the first of anything, you never know it's gonna work. Yeah, exactly. But I always knew that. I guess, as we were going through the process, I knew that I wanted to be the first to test all of that out. I knew that if anyone was going to go through it, if anyone was going to experience the downsides, of it. Then I wanted to do that and take that on as much as possible to help people after me. Um, so being the first was, it was cool. I mean, it's exciting now.

Kim Commando
Was it a long surgery?

Nolan
No.

From what I understand, it was supposed to be between three and 6 hours long, but everything went so perfectly. It was under two.

Kim Commando
Wow.

Nolan
Really quick. Yeah.

Kim Commando
Well, I guess I should back up. How did you even. How did you even know, like, to apply for this?

Nolan
Yeah.

Kim Commando
And, I mean, how did you even get involved?

Nolan
Yeah, I didn't know anything about neuralink when I applied.

One of my buddies from college, he worked in the spinal cord field. After college, he worked in spinal cord lab, and he followed the Elon Musk sphere quite a bit. So he was just randomly googling something about SpaceX, I think. And it had shown up that day that neuralink had opened up the human trials.

And so he texted me and said, hey, do you want to get a chip in your brain? And kind of jokingly, I was like, yeah, like, might as well. And so he called me on the phone and kind of gave me a five minute rundown of what neuralink was about, what they were doing, what they were planning. I said, sure. Like, I'll sign up. I'll apply for it. I had applied for trials in the past, I think maybe like three or four years prior. I applied for a massive database over the whole, like, North America, basically, for spinal cord injury related, you know, studies, and I didn't hear back from a single person for anything. So when I applied to Neuralink, I.

Kim Commando
Thought, there's gonna be just another one.

Nolan
There's no way. So I joked around on my application. I told them I wanted an Ironman suit. Like, I just, you know, funny things. And then I heard back from them in like, a day or two, and.

Kim Commando
Did you really?

Nolan
Yeah. And just kind of a whirlwind. A month later, I was up here in Phoenix at Borrows Neurological Institute, getting a full day of, like, physical testing, brain scans, blood tests, urine tests, all, you know, the whole nine. Um, and I think, what, three, four months after I applied, I was getting surgery.

Kim Commando
Wow, that's amazing.

Nolan
I know.

Kim Commando
Okay, so you were. How. How did you become paralyzed?

Nolan
Yeah. So, um, right after my senior year of college, I was 22. I was working at a summer camp up in the. Up in the Poconos.

And I. It was my day off. I was at a man made lake. And if you imagine running into the ocean and you get to about waist deep water, the waves are coming in, then you kind of like dive under, you know, a wave. That's all I did in the lake. It's not like I was jumping off any sort of, like, cliffs. I wasn't jumping high. I didn't, like, dive headfirst in anything. I just ran in the water with a couple of guys, and we all kind of dove in like that. I think I got hit in the side of the head by one of the guys that was with me, a straight hand, elbow, knee, foot, something, because I definitely didn't hit the bottom.

The side of my head was sore for a few weeks, so I knew I got hit in the side of my head. Um, I don't know. It was just kind of a freak accident.

Kim Commando
Random accident. Freak accident.

Yeah. That's so tragic.

Nolan
Yeah, it was. It was unfortunate, but I coped pretty well. I'm a pretty easy going guy. I kind of roll with the punches. So, um, I actually immediately woke up face down in the water, and I knew that I was paralyzed. I tried to move, and I knew I couldn't. And so I was holding my breath, and I just thought, what do I do now? And that's kind of how I've been the entire time with my accident. Just how do I move forward? What can I do to make my life better, even a little bit? Get off a ventilator, try to get as much movement back as possible, just things like that. And I think I've been really blessed to have a family and friends, massive, great support system that's really kept me going, and I've stayed fairly positive over the years, all things considered.

Kim Commando
Well, you know what? You have a great attitude. Obviously, it shows through and your warmth and your generosity and what you want to. I'm sure there are great things ahead for you. Yeah, I hope so. You get this implant.

Nolan
Yep.

Kim Commando
Okay.

And did it work automatically or. Explain to us how it works.

Nolan
Yeah. So the implant has 64 threads, and on each thread are 16 electrodes. The electrodes are placed near in my motor cortex, on the left side of my brain, in the right hand part of my motor cortex. And basically, when the neurons fire, so the electrodes are placed, the threads and electrodes are placed near neurons, and when they fire, that records those, whatever intentions that they are. So if I try to move my hand to the right neurons fire, it picks up those signals, sends it to an application that neuralink created and they uploaded on a computer. And I train algorithms. I train models. So a lot of machine learning, I train them to do exactly what I want. It's almost like calibrating a cursor on a computer screen, it tells you to move the cursor to the right, so you push to the right, it tells you to move to the left, you push to the left. I do that with the neuralink, with the app and the algorithm, and over time, it learns what I want to do, and then I can control the cursor.

Kim Commando
Now is. So how long have you had the BC?

Nolan
A little over five months.

Kim Commando
Is it getting better?

Nolan
It is. It's still getting better every day. It's a lot of software tweaks on Neuralink side. They're learning more what information is redundant, what they don't need, some things that are obsolete that they thought might have, you know, help improve control that really doesn't. So they're constantly refining it. And so it's. It's been getting better the whole five and a half months ish that I've had it.

Kim Commando
And what, what, what was, like, the biggest thing that you're able to do now that you were not able to do before?

Nolan
I mean, it, what I keep telling people is it's something as simple as sending a text message.

I just sent a text even the other day from my old computer while my neuralink was charging and one of my friends was in the room. And it took me about 1015 minutes to send the text constant, like, you know, like you were talking about Siri. Sometimes understanding what you're trying to say, it just. It doesn't work. And so it would take me so long to even reply to one person. Now, imagine trying to keep in touch with all of my friends, all of my family all the time. It's just not feasible. So now I can send a text in a couple seconds. It's super easy.

Kim Commando
So tell us, how do you, how would, how do you send a text now?

Nolan
So I do it through the computer. I do it through the app. I have cursor control right now. That's just the first part of the study. So soon it'll be things like texting and different ways for the implant to understand what I'm trying to tell it. Different words, maybe.

So, right now, I have a virtual keyboard that I control with my cursor, and I have a dictation that knurling built specifically for me. I go on text messages on my computer through my phone, and I'll either use dictation or type with the cursor. Little things here and there. It's super simple.

Kim Commando
Okay, so we have some videos of you playing chess.

Nolan
Oh, yeah.

Kim Commando
Okay, explain to us what we're looking at right now.

Nolan
So this is the calibration process. This one right here. So this is these bubbles. I will either follow the cursor to those bubbles, and then eventually it'll give me control of the cursor, and then I move the cursor to each of bubble, and this was the first time I had actually ever gotten complete cursor control.

Kim Commando
Now, how? Okay, so everybody knows. What is the cursor?

Nolan
What you move with a trackpad, with a mouse.

Kim Commando
Okay. And so are. So you're thinking about moving the cursor?

Nolan
Yeah. At first it started out with me attempting to move. So in my mind, all of this made a lot of sense. At the beginning. It's a chip with threads that are implanted in my motor cortex. My signals in my brain still work. They're still firing. The signals just don't get down to my hand because there's a disconnect in my spinal cord. It's almost like if you were to have a strand of Christmas lights and one bulb halfway up goes out, then maybe the rest go out as well. It's not like that, per se, but you can't send the signal through that broken part of.

Of the spinal cord. So all the signals work. So in my mind, it made sense. It's reading those signals, it's learning my intentions. So when I try to move my hand to the right, even though I can't physically do it, the signal is still there.

Kim Commando
Gosh, that is so. That is phenomenal.

Nolan
I know. It's. It's amazing.

Kim Commando
It is.

Nolan
That is amazing.

Kim Commando
You know, you gotta give Elon Musk credit. I mean.

Nolan
Yeah.

Kim Commando
You know, for a lot of people, including myself, I don't like Tesla's or, you know, because I'm not a big fan of the car, but what he's doing with SpaceX and Starlink. I know, right? I know. Did you see that? It's about the size of an iPad now. You can carry Starlink around in your backpack.

Nolan
I didn't.

Kim Commando
That's amazing, isn't it? I mean, so no matter where you are on the planet, and of course, you know, it's the size of an iPad now, which means in a year, it's going to be half the size, and it's going to keep getting smaller and smaller and smaller and see, and I know that with the neuralinken, he wants to someday, unless it gets controversial, is that to blend it with human consciousness and AI, which. I could totally see that happening.

Nolan
Yeah. I mean, can't you yeah, I can see it happening. I'm. I'm excited for that time. I know a lot of people have a lot of concerns, ethical concerns, things about that. My immediate focus is helping handicap people. They're like, for me, just specifically, it's changed my life so much. It's made me more independent. It's helped me feel like I have a purpose and that I'm able to accomplish a lot more than I wasn't able to accomplish before.

Kim Commando
Yeah, I'm sure it's great for your psyche and your mental health and your emotional well being that you're able to do something.

Okay, so you're a big Mario Kart fan?

Nolan
I am. I am. I love Mario Kart. I've been playing things like Nintendo my entire life, so I grew up a gamer.

Kim Commando
And so now you're still playing Mario Kart?

Nolan
Yeah. So what is in this video was one of the first weeks that I was using the implant. They physically, the knurling team was in my house, and they physically wired my computer up to a converting box and then to the Nintendo Switch. And so it translated my intention with the cursor into different movements on the Mario Kart controller.

They have since taken that away from me to build a more robust system.

Kim Commando
That's great.

Nolan
Where I would be able to go and play on my own without them needing to be there. So they're working on that, but there's a lot of things that they're trying to do at once, and it's not a massive team.

Kim Commando
How many people are on the team?

Nolan
I don't know. With the people that I work with, I think maybe ten to twelve that work with me directly. I talk to maybe four or five of them on a weekly basis. The rest are more in the background.

It's a pretty small team to be doing all the things that I'm trying to do.

Kim Commando
Have you made direct requests of them saying, what if it did this? Could it do this?

Nolan
Yeah. All the time I'm. They're constantly asking my feedback, what would I like to do? Are there things that I can't do now that I wish I could do? Things like different games that I wish I could play and what the gap is for them, what they need to do in order to get me there. So I'm constantly telling them things that I would like to do.

I mean, I want to, like, write a book at some point.

Kim Commando
I was going to ask you if you wanted to do that.

Nolan
Yeah, I do. I've always been into, you know, fiction and fantasy, so that was kind of my lane, but with all this going on, I might as well.

Kim Commando
It's 100%. You just. I mean, because, you know, you're living it.

Nolan
Yeah, exactly. So I hope to do that at some point. And we're working with things like sign language, fingerspelling right now in order to get, you know, the typing to work. We're doing handwriting samples. We're doing, you know, speech to text sort of things where I would just say words now to calibrate, but then think them in the future. So it would write out the whole word. I mean, so many different things in order to.

Kim Commando
Isn't that wild?

Nolan
I don't know. It's. I think at the beginning of my journey, like I said, I was doing a lot of attempted movement the day it clicked that I didn't need to attempt, and I could just think things and make it happen. The world opened up to me because I realized that the neuralink could learn a lot more than I ever thought was. It was capable of. So I can think maybe even very complex ideas or concepts, and maybe at some point in some day, it'll be able to understand those and translate them onto whatever I'm working with.

Kim Commando
Look at everything that it's done in the last five months.

Nolan
Yeah, I know.

Kim Commando
I mean, it's.

Nolan
As soon as they get more participants in, then the growth is going to be exponential.

Kim Commando
Well, they are coming with patient, too.

Nolan
Yeah. Soon. Soon.

Kim Commando
And I bet you, you guys, it's a gal. I mean, we'll be working together.

Nolan
Yeah. I'm not sure how closely we'll work together.

I've mentioned that. I don't mind being available to them for any questions, comments. They would like to talk. I would like to get feedback. Like, what is this experience like for you? This is what I feel. This is how I use it. I'm not sure how directly we would work together, mainly because it's a study. I'm not sure how you're right about that.

Kim Commando
They probably don't want to taint it.

Nolan
Yeah, exactly. So I'm not sure.

Kim Commando
So it has been approved by the FDA?

Nolan
Yeah. So this is a safety study. So it's approved for the FDA for human clinical trials. So this is just trying to see how safe it is and then how effective it is at, like, doing what it's supposed to do. Safety first, and then, you know, how effectiveness second.

Kim Commando
Now, have the. Have the folks at Neuralink, have they ever talked to you about, like, whether or not it could get hacked?

Nolan
Yeah. Yeah, it's possible, but I.

The more I talk with him about it, the more I did talk with them about it or think about it, there's not much that you would get from it. You would be able to read my neurons firing.

You might be able to hack the cursor and control my computer if I'm connected to it and you're close enough, which we have to be.

Kim Commando
Through Bluetooth.

Nolan
Yeah, it's all through Bluetooth. So you have to hack it in that way. And then you could control my computer. I would just be able to shut my computer, turn off, like, disconnect from the neuralink, and all that would stop. I mean, there are a lot of ways that I just don't see why anyone would want to. You wouldn't get anything from it, so it doesn't make sense to me.

Kim Commando
It's kind of like people are always concerned, like, their pacemakers or something else are going to get.

Nolan
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And. And, you know, the security is like, the narrow link team is. They're smart guys, and they. They have a really good security team around this, so I'm not worried about it.

Kim Commando
Well, you know what? I am just so excited for you.

Nolan
Thank you.

Kim Commando
I really am. Thank you so much. And I'm proud of you for doing this, because when tragedy happens, there's a tendency. Sometimes people wouldn't just go into their own little world, but what you're doing is really going to have an impact in the future.

Nolan
Yeah, I hope so.

Kim Commando
Have they talked about if they could actually make neuralink move your hands, your physical hands, move your legs?

Nolan
I think it's gonna happen in my lifetime.

I've seen some of the stuff they've put out previously in videos of some of their plans, and I've seen behind the curtain a little bit, and just experiencing this, I understand what it might be capable of. And so how it would work, at least at this point, is to implant a neuralink in the brain, in, say, the motor cortex, and then implant one below the level of injury in the spinal cord. And then the two neuralinks would just talk to each other and bypass that part of the spinal cord, and you would be able to move again. I think it's totally doable within my lifetime.

Kim Commando
I believe that. Yeah, I believe that. And it's. And, you know, it's all because, you know, musk thinking out of the box.

Nolan
Right.

Kim Commando
I mean, saying, what if? What if we can do this? And, you know, and now you.

You are the patient one, that, you know, you took a risk.

Nolan
Yeah.

Kim Commando
I mean, maybe it might not have worked, maybe it would have. Maybe something with the robotic surgery could have gotten wrong. But by you taking that risk, now, they're learning.

And as it goes along, and with the help of AI, it will be exponential. And I believe you will walk. I really do. I believe that, you know, is it going to happen tomorrow? No, but I believe probably within ten years.

Nolan
Yeah, I've optimistically. That's what I say. 1010 years. Maybe 20. But even if it doesn't happen in my lifetime, I know that by me getting this ball rolling by all of us, starting here, at some point in time, other people won't have to go through what I've gone through. Other people won't have to experience paralysis at all. I imagine a world where someone has a spinal cord injury, goes into a hospital, gets surgery, and they walk out a day or two later, no muscle atrophy, no negative side effects at all. I think it's totally doable. And even if I never walk again, that's absolutely worth it to me.

Kim Commando
You know what? You. Well, I think you. Well, I believe you.

Nolan
Well, I hope so.

Kim Commando
I think you will. And, I mean, because if you. If you look at all the advancements in technology that we have right now, there's no reason to think that it would not happen.

I mean, ten years ago, if you would have said to me you could carry around a device in your pocket that would give you Internet access, whether you're on the tundra in Africa or on the top of Machu Picchu or wherever it was, and you'd be able to order an Uber or. I mean, look at all the things that are now possible. Of course, you know, there's always. You can talk about all the downsides of tech and all that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it comes to medical advances and AI and technology, that's where we really have the power to use this to our good and to say, how can we prevent certain cancers? What kind of testing can we do to see if there are mutations? What can we do with. Now, using physical.

What is it? The size of a quarter, right?

Nolan
Yeah, roughly.

Kim Commando
Putting in a BCI, about the size of a quarter so that nobody will have to suffer paralysis again because of you taking that risk and now documenting this. And I'm sure it's helping your. Your life, right?

Nolan
Yep.

Kim Commando
But you're helping so many other lives, which.

I mean, Nolan, that's. You know, that's why we're here.

Nolan
Yeah.

Kim Commando
I mean, that's.

Nolan
I agree.

Kim Commando
That's why we're here. You know, is to. Is to make the world a better place.

Nolan
Yep.

Kim Commando
And, you know, if we're. If we're doing our job right, then we can look at ourselves in the mirror and say, yeah. That I made a difference.

Nolan
Yeah. It's something. I think a lot of people dream of trying to do something with their life to make a difference, to make the world a better place. And I was lucky enough to get this opportunity, and I couldn't be more thankful.

Kim Commando
Well, Nolan, thanks for coming by. You know what? I think you're an amazing individual. And I want you to know that if I can ever help you in any way.

Thanks so much.

Nolan
I appreciate that.

Kim Commando
And keep us posted on your progress.

Nolan
I will. Absolutely.

Kim Commando
And whenever you're in Phoenix, you want to stop by, you're always welcome.

Nolan
Well, I'm going to a Diamondbacks game later today, so I'm sure I'll be up going and seeing more games.

Kim Commando
So let's see if they win.

Nolan
Yeah, I know, right? Let's go. Let's go, d backs.

Kim Commando
Let's go, d backs. Awesome. Well, thank you, Noah.

Nolan
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Kim Commando
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