Dirty diaper ruined a family business

Kim Komando Today

Primary Topic

This episode explores a bizarre incident where a returned, used diaper ruined a small family business on Amazon.

Episode Summary

In a surprising turn of events, the "Kim Komando Show" delves into how a seemingly small oversight by Amazon's return system led to a major financial catastrophe for a small family-owned business. The episode shares the story of Paul and Rochelle Baron, the owners of Bo and Belle Littles, whose business was thriving on Amazon until a customer received a used diaper that had not been appropriately processed by Amazon's return system. This error was compounded when a negative review went viral, drastically reducing their sales and leading to significant financial distress. The discussion highlights the challenges small businesses face on large platforms like Amazon, especially when errors occur that are beyond their control.

Main Takeaways

  1. The importance of rigorous checks in return processes for e-commerce platforms.
  2. The significant impact customer reviews can have on a business.
  3. The challenges small businesses face in managing their reputation online.
  4. The potential pitfalls of relying heavily on a single sales platform.
  5. The legal and customer service complexities involved in e-commerce.

Episode Chapters

1: The Problem Begins

Overview of how a returned, used diaper mistakenly sent out by Amazon led to a catastrophic review. Paul Baron: "We asked Amazon to, like, but there's a setting that have all the returns sent back to us."

2: The Impact

Discussion on the immediate and long-term impacts of the negative review on the business. Rochelle Baron: "It's surreal, like being in this space, we have people we know, people that make ten times what we."

3: Seeking Solutions

Exploration of the attempts by the Barons to rectify the situation through Amazon and other avenues. Paul Baron: "Amazon is really good about protecting like customer information."

4: Wider Implications

Consideration of broader implications for e-commerce and customer trust. Kim Komando: "It's a really situation, you know, it's hard because, you know, with such a marketplace like Amazon."

Actionable Advice

  1. Implement Rigorous Return Inspections: Ensure that all returned items are inspected thoroughly before being sent out again.
  2. Monitor Customer Reviews: Keep a close eye on customer reviews and address any negative feedback promptly.
  3. Diversify Sales Platforms: Avoid relying on a single platform for all sales to mitigate risks.
  4. Legal Preparedness: Understand the legal framework of e-commerce platforms and prepare for potential disputes.
  5. Customer Service Excellence: Prioritize excellent customer service to build trust and mitigate negative experiences.

About This Episode

Paul and Rachelle Baron own Beau & Belle Littles, a once thriving swim diaper business. But when Amazon resold a returned diaper as "new," a one-star review flagged by more than 100 buyers left them $600,000 in debt. Plus, CrowdStrike trouble continues, web searches are changing, and a remote worker turned out to be a North Korean spy.

People

Paul Baron, Rochelle Baron, Kim Komando, Andrew Babinski

Companies

Amazon, Bo and Belle Littles

Content Warnings:

None

Transcript

Kim Commando
It's better over here.

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Kim Commando
Hey, it's Kim Commando today, your daily podcast to keep you up to date with all things digital and beyond. And I'd love to have you be a part of our podcast. You can make an appointment to speak with me. Just head over to commando.com. and on the top right, there's a button that says email. Kim, fill that out. And that's it.

So I cried the other day in the doctor's office.

Andrew Babinski
What happened? Did you find out you're pregnant? Oh, my gosh. Is it a boy?

Kim Commando
Immaculate conception.

So I went over to UCLA, okay? And I'm going to tell everybody that's where I'm going for all of my eye treatments, because I'm having people all over social media saying, so where are you going? Where are you going? I'm going to the Doris Stein Eye center at UCLA. Okay? And I picked UCLA because it was told to me that, like, there are only two places you want to go if you have eye problems, you want to go to Barcom Palmer in Miami or you want to go to UCLA. So I went to UCLA, and then I went to Barcom Palmer for a second opinion, and they said, why are you here? You're closer to UCLA. I was like, oh, okay.

So last May of 2023, that's when I had a cornea transplant. And my vision then when I went under the knife was 2400.

And then over the last year, we went from 2050 to 2200 to 2070. And now it's kind of settled at 21 25, which I'm thrilled about. I mean, went from nothing to 21 25. And so this past week, I went over to UCLA. Cause my surgeon, Tony Aldabe, doctor Aldobe, told me that he thinks that I could probably see really well if I got a hard contact lens.

So I went over to get fitted for the hard contact lens. And it's really kind of amazing, the machines that they have right now, because, you know, normally when you go to get glasses, they put you behind this thing, and then it's like you like one or two, one or two, three or four, whatever it may be. So their machine's a little bit different. You look into it and you see a farmhouse, and it moves.

Everything moves so that you can see the farmhouse better in the distance. And then also things close up. And so that's how they came up with the prescription. And then she put me behind that thing that goes. And then she said, like, 1234. And instead of it going like one or two, and you're, like, trying to remember, like, I'm not really sure that there's any difference is that they put both lenses, so to speak, both prescriptions, side by side. And so you can see if it's red on the red side or the green side.

Andrew Babinski
So you look, and you look and you open the other and close it. And open it.

Kim Commando
Yes. No, no, no, no. Just through one eye.

Andrew Babinski
Okay.

Kim Commando
You say if it's red or green. You've never gotten glasses, have you?

Andrew Babinski
Oh, no, I used to wear glasses. I got Lasik in 2000.

Kim Commando
Oh, okay. All right. And so anyway, so we go through this whole thing, and then she's like. I'm like, so is it gonna be a soft contact lens or a hard contact lens? She's like, well, can't do a soft. I'm like, please. And she's like, can't do a soften.

And I know you're the doctor, but. And she said, I'm going to put a hard contact lens on you. So she puts the hard contact lens on, and I was, like, blown away because with the hard contact lens, I could see 2030.

Andrew Babinski
And this is the clearest you've ever seen since your vision was impaired?

Kim Commando
Probably since I was 14 years old.

And then I jumped out of the chair, and I'm like, oh, my God. Look at this world.

Andrew Babinski
Oh, that's beautiful.

Kim Commando
And then I looked out the window, and I was looking at the trees, and I was like, because, you know, right now I see everything pretty much flat.

Andrew Babinski
Okay?

Kim Commando
Right? And now it was like I could see more shadows and more depth and things were more vibrant. And then she's like, girlfriend, I am not done with you yet. And I'm like, what do you mean you're not done with me? She's like, sit back in that chair and I'm going to make it even better.

And she did, and she brought it to 2020.

Andrew Babinski
What did she do? What adjustments was made to improve it from having the contact in there?

Kim Commando
Well, she. The contact lens was like a generic prescription.

Andrew Babinski
Okay?

Kim Commando
And then she fine tuned that prescription to bring it to 2020.

And then that's when I started crying. And then I said, doctor, I said, you get a gold star today.

Andrew Babinski
I said, do you have your permanent contacts?

Kim Commando
Not yet. She's gonna make them. It's be two weeks.

And. But that's when she's like, she goes, this is why I love my job. And then she's like, so do you want me to see if insurance will cover this? I'm like, how much is it? She's like, $600. I'm like, no, it's okay.

Andrew Babinski
I would.

You're gonna be able to see that credit card statement a little more clearer now. And you would wish that insurance paid for that.

Kim Commando
Well, I'm gonna, what? I get what I told her to do. I was like, I'm gonna pay for it now. And then I'll file the claim later. Yeah, that works.

And then I said, you know what? Then I need two. She's like, why do you need two? I said, I lose things all the time.

Andrew Babinski
Just so you only have to put a contact in one eye, right. And you have to take it in and out every single day.

Kim Commando
Yes.

Andrew Babinski
Okay.

Kim Commando
Yes. And so as I was sitting there, though, this is the. That's an interesting question.

As I was sitting there, it's like suddenly I started seeing two of things, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. I said, I'm like, getting, like, double vision here. Like, what's going on here? And she's like, oh. She said, your brain is waking up. And I said, what do you mean my brain's waking up? She goes, you haven't had to use that portion of your brain since you were 14 years old, so it kind of went into hibernation.

And I said, so how do we wake it up? And she said, well, you're going to wear the contact lens for an hour a day, just an hour, and then you're going to go to 2 hours. Then you're going to go to 3 hours.

And she said, eventually you'll get to the point where you're not going to see double anymore when you wear it. Like eight, eight, 9 hours, something like that. But she said that it's going to take a while because you haven't used that portion of the brain.

Last night, I was having dinner with some friends and Barry and I was telling the whole story about how I had to wake up that part of my brain, and everybody at the table went, oh, crap. We're never going to be able to pick to keep up with her now.

Andrew Babinski
That's so awesome. Congratulations, Kim.

Kim Commando
Thank you, thank you. I know, I'm just. I'm so thrilled. It's just. It was just an amazing moment. I can't wait to get the contact.

And so I tried out.

Andrew Babinski
You've dealt with this since you're 14.

So for the last 14 years, you've had these vision issues that are finally corrected.

Kim Commando
See what I did there?

Andrew Babinski
See what I did there? I made you 28 years old.

Kim Commando
No, I was gonna correct you. It's been 15 years. 29.

Andrew Babinski
Apologize. Forgot your birthday was recently, although kind.

Kim Commando
Of a weird thing. My son is 23, adopted.

Andrew Babinski
You're gonna have to tell him now.

Kim Commando
Hey, on that happy note, welcome, everyone. It's Kim Commando. Today it's your fun podcast about all things digital. And of course, joining me is Andrew Babinski. Andrew, what do you have?

Andrew Babinski
Coming up, we have an infiltrator. A north korean hacker has infiltrated a us company, and we're going to tell you how they did it.

Kim Commando
Oh, see, this is where we need that sound effect. Bum bum bum bum.

Andrew Babinski
It's a crazy story. Really is.

Kim Commando
Okay. And now it's your job to tell everybody, like comment shower.

Paul Baron
Yeah.

Andrew Babinski
If you're watching us, we apologize for being late. We had a little bit of technical difficulties, but we're here. We are streaming every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday the Kim commando today podcasts streams. And if you could just, like, comment and share on the podcast, that helps. The old YouTube algorithm.

Kim talked about her brain being dead. We need to wake up the algorithm and get it moving so more people can see the show, because if you love it, someone you can share it with, they're going to love it, too.

Kim Commando
And just a quick reminder, we are giving away a $1,000 vacation gift card. Yes, you can enter to win right now@winfromkim.com. dot. Once again, there's. That's winfromkim.com dot. Winfromkim.com dot. Oh, we also have some special guests.

This couple had an Amazon thriving business until somebody sent back a poopy diaper.

Andrew Babinski
Well, that happens to the best of businesses. Isn't that what took down many monopolies in the twenties was poopy diapers? This is such a crappy story. And I'm using that pun intended.

Kim Commando
Oh, that was, you know, I was going to use that one.

Andrew Babinski
I'm sorry. You are the queen of the bad jokes. They should have left it for you.

Kim Commando
All right, let's talk about Crowdstrike. Ah, crowdstrike. Did you hear what they've done? Lately?

Andrew Babinski
No. I heard they have their, their big excuse on what happened.

Kim Commando
Well, okay, will you talk about the big excuse?

Andrew Babinski
It was just some, some software they were testing. They wanted to test some software in the background and everything, then shut down every single computer for every major company across the entire planet. Maybe you have a dummy computer or a computer that's not on the Internet that you want to test your software on.

Kim Commando
Yeah. You know, normally you do like, what's called beta testing.

Maybe you've heard of it, just throw.

Andrew Babinski
It in the mail.

Kim Commando
Well, here's the deal. Everybody's apologizing. Delta is saying, like, they were hit the worst.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah. They're still feeling the effects. Right?

Kim Commando
For sure.

And so if you got hit by crowdstrike and your Delta flight was canceled, is that they're going to give you 10,000 miles on your mileage account and all this other stuff. But the thing that I thought was so interesting is that when this crowd strike hit Delta, is that all the unaccompanied miners flights were canceled.

Okay. Now, I had to look up what is a unaccompanied minor. Okay. An unaccompanied miner over the age of 5 may travel alone. Okay. At the age of eight, they're allowed to make connecting flights. So that means your kids, Andrew, right, could fly alone, but it's easy.

Andrew Babinski
A five year old can just walk up to a ticket booth, rebook their ticket, get on another flight. Oh, wait, no, they can't. They're five.

What a nighthouse.

Kim Commando
And so they have all these kids. It's summertime, right? And they're stuck because the bus dropped them off at the airport with the camp counselor to either get home or maybe the parents are trying to get them to wherever summer camp is. So just the Internet was just flooded with all these parents social media saying, we don't know what to do. And then Crowdstrike came out and they said, you know what? We are really sorry, too.

And to all of our partners that we caused this devastation for not just days, weeks. And, I mean, this is going to keep going on for months, is that they are going to be giving you a gift card. That's right. A gift. Cardinal. And so the chief of security for Crowdstrike, this public, big public company that affected eight and a half million computers around the world, where it guys and gals, they had to apply the patches and then reboot them in a safe mode for like 15 times, not 16 up or 15 times. So he comes out and he says, we are so sorry. We're going to give you. Are you ready for it?

A ten dollar Uber eats gift.

Andrew Babinski
Cardinal per company.

All the executives at Delta get to share a $10 Uber eats gift card.

Kim Commando
They said for their partners.

Andrew Babinski
That's not even going to cover the delivery fee.

Kim Commando
I actually went on Uber eats. What could you order for, like, $10?

Andrew Babinski
Nothing.

Kim Commando
A. No. A chicken sandwich at McDonald's. That's what I could get.

Andrew Babinski
And you, you don't have to go over. That's under $10 delivered.

Kim Commando
Yes. With just a chicken sandwich.

Well, you're not going to give a big tip.

Andrew Babinski
No, you only got $10. $10 is normally the tip.

Kim Commando
Yeah, you know, the $10 Uber's gift card. And then the Internet was making fun of them. They're like, okay, well, we're sorry. We didn't mean to say that.

Andrew Babinski
They're just all sorry all over the place.

Kim Commando
They're just. Yeah, they totally just clucked up.

Andrew Babinski
Is my face turning red? Cause there are guests are on hold and they can hear this. And I'm so embarrassed that they got to hear that awful joke.

Kim Commando
Hey, that was a good one.

Andrew Babinski
All right, if you say so.

Kim Commando
Just laugh long. Remember the title of the show? Kim commando today just clucked up.

Andrew Babinski
Oh, my God. Good one.

Kim Commando
All right. Hey, I also want to talk about Google.

Almost 60% of all Google searches never leave Google right now.

Andrew Babinski
So just to explain that, I search red shoes, I get the results, but I never click anything to actually connect myself to that link.

Kim Commando
Nope, nothing.

Andrew Babinski
Is that because people are finding out the information on the page from the search results and there's no reason to click anything?

Kim Commando
Exactly. Because Google now has the AI overview. So no matter whatever you ask, it is that now you're not going to any websites. And so what that means is that all these people, including us, that have websites traffic is tanking, and 30% of all Google search traffic goes directly back to Google products.

Paul Baron
Hmm.

Kim Commando
Like YouTube, for example.

Andrew Babinski
Don't blame them. I mean, that's a pretty good business model.

Kim Commando
And I was also reading about websites. This is not a joke. The guy who owns Milk.com, he is, if you go to milk.com, value is that he's got a whole notice up there that don't even think of contacting him about buying Milk.com unless you're willing to pay at least $10 million when.

Andrew Babinski
The website's going to be worthless in about three to four years.

Kim Commando
Exactly.

Andrew Babinski
You said it on the air. And this is a perfect example. You said the SEO businesses are going to be the ones that are going to be the first to die. And this is proof of that. What do I need to optimize if no one's clicking through, they're just reading AI result.

Kim Commando
Yeah. Or they're just going to chat GPT or complexity or whatever it may be. And so that's why if you are in the web business, you really have to start thinking about another skill set.

And then I ran across this story about digital dating deterrents and it was put together by a research company, and these are things that they say that when you do this online, when you tell that person that you're trying to meet online, these particular phrases that it's total turn off.

Andrew Babinski
Okay.

Kim Commando
Okay. And so like, for example, number ten is, if I were to tell you this, if we were, you know, trying to hook up on a dating app, right. I think my Spotify is broken. You're not listed in the hottest singles.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah, okay. I agree. That would be, I mean, I get it. It's an attempt at a playful, cheesy little joke there, but it's lame.

Kim Commando
Did it hurt when you fell from heaven?

Andrew Babinski
Lamer.

Okay, so these are pickup lines that don't work on dating apps.

Kim Commando
Yes.

Hey, sexy, what's your number without me when you say you're going to take a shower?

I don't get that.

Andrew Babinski
I don't get that at all. Maybe because it's just stupid.

Kim Commando
Yeah. You're so hot.

Okay, you send the eggplant emoji.

Andrew Babinski
So this is, this sounds like it's all communication, men to women.

Kim Commando
Yeah. It does also send pics.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah, that one never works.

Kim Commando
That one never works. Okay, now there's one on this list that I saved. It's actually number eight because I actually had to look it up because I didn't know what it meant and I thought, well, you know what, I'm not in the online dating world and, you know, you kind of are. So maybe you might know what this means. Okay.

It's four, but it's spelled p h w a r. Ph w a r. No, phwoarphw. And they say it's pronounced for. For. Okay, so this is where it is. It says, it's informal british English used to express admiration or sexual attraction to someone or something.

For.

So someone might say, for when looking at a good looking person.

Andrew Babinski
Okay, so that's like saying damn or wow, something like that. Okay, for. I'm gonna try it. I'll see if it works. See what kind of success rate I have.

Kim Commando
They'll come back and go, we have no idea what the hell you're saying.

Andrew Babinski
I got banned from the app.

Kim Commando
That would be it. You know, so these online dating apps. I'm gonna start my own. For paleontologists, I'm just gonna call it carbon dating.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah, you should start.

Kim Commando
So funny. I am just so funny.

Andrew Babinski
All right.

It's better over here.

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Kim Commando
Hey, it's Kevin Commando today. We are so thrilled that you're here joining us. And by the way, if you're listening to the audio version of Kim Commando today, we love you for that. It's amazing. But if you want to get the full experience, you just want to see how incredibly beautiful I am and how talented I am.

Andrew Babinski
Thank you.

Kim Commando
Anyone?

Andrew Babinski
I'm in such a giggly mood today. I apologize. Yes. You should come over and watch the. The live stream on YouTube. See how beautiful Kim you are. Beautiful. I mean, that's not what I'm laughing at. The self aggrandizing and the way you're holding yourself up with such a straight face is very impressive.

Kim Commando
Well, you know, I couldn't even say that with a straight face.

Andrew Babinski
No, you couldn't.

Kim Commando
No. YouTube.com kimcommando. Once again, that's YouTube.com kimcommando. Don't forget, enter to win that $1,000 airline giveaway gift card. So you can just get away. Go on a vacay, go to winfromkim.com dot. Once again, that's winfromkim.com. dot. All right. When I read this story, Andrew, I just knew I wanted to get them on the air with us to tell exactly what's going down. Cause, you know, you read different iterations of it, but, you know, sometimes it's like that old game of telephone tag, what really, truly happened, you know? And I'm amazed, for example, how much business is done on Amazon. I mean, during prime day, what did they sell? What was it like?

Yeah. Okay. In 48 hours. Okay. 6 million or almost almost 7 million, actually. 7 million products moved every single minute.

So you have the opportunity to use Amazon as your platform to really set yourself up for business. Because if you were to do a retail store, I mean, if you had five or ten people come in the store during the day, I mean, if it was like a boutique, I mean, you'd be thrilled, right? I mean, be amazing. So, you know, so suddenly, you know, you have this store on Amazon and people just search for stuff and then you pop up and you just take orders. Well, Paul and Rochelle Barron, they own Bo and Belle Littles. Okay. They reached $1 million in sales until it just came crashing down like a rocket. And the reason behind it is super interesting. So Paul and Rachel are here to join us. Hi there.

Paul Baron
Hey.

Rochelle Baron
How are you guys?

Andrew Babinski
Good.

Rochelle Baron
How are you?

Kim Commando
Great. Good.

Rochelle Baron
I was listening to your dad jokes, and I'm surprised you didn't say something about, like, a minor with a pickaxe.

Andrew Babinski
Do not encourage her. Do. I know we're supposed to be kind to the guests, but. Stop it. Bad guest.

Kim Commando
You know what? You guys, Paul and Rochelle, you are welcome anytime, anytime.

Andrew Babinski
Oh, gosh, the sucking up has started this early. Normally about two or three minutes into the call.

Kim Commando
All right, so how did you guys come up with the idea for your Amazon store?

Paul Baron
When my son was a baby, we got a different reusable swim diaper.

And it was supposedly to be, like, something that would fit when he was six months old, and he was really small and it didn't fit. It actually gave him diaper rash. And so we were researching, trying to find other diapers, and we came out with our adjustable diaper that would fit from when he was born through three years old.

Kim Commando
And so you invented this diaper?

Rochelle Baron
I mean, kind of out of necessity when we were looking to. Well, she was working as a professional at a elementary school at the time, and she wanted to be able to stay home, essentially because, well, she was staying home because it would have cost us, basically almost her entire paycheck to put our son into daycare.

And so we were looking at different ways to make income online.

And we stumbled across this course that one of our friends was promoting that basically was talking about how you could sell and make money on Amazon.

Now when we're doing all this product research and everything, the.

I guess we had an issue with our son swimming again, the swim diaper didn't fit. We had this reusable one that wasn't fitting. It made him fry and stuff, and we had to switch over to disposable. Swimback, and those gave diaper rash. So when we were doing our product research, we were saying that this was, what, May?

Yeah, I think it was April, May in 2015.

We were seeing that, you know, kind of swimback curve. So we wanted to kind of jump on that wave, if you will. And we knew, based on the reviews, that other people had experiences like us, that diapers didn't fit. That was, like, the number one complaint, that these reusable swim vipers didn't fit. So I grew up in Colorado. She basically. I mean, she was. I was born for hearts, I guess. Her family moved here. She was too.

Like, the outdoors in nature is a huge thing for us. It's not just like a sticker that we stamp. I want to make sure that we make responsible decisions with our money and for the. So it's just a natural fit.

Kim Commando
All right, so you open your store up on Amazon, and I had read that you got to a million dollars in sales. That's phenomenal.

Rochelle Baron
You know, it's crazy.

I remember the very first sale that we ever had. I was waiting tables, and, like, that in and of itself was like. It was surreal because I'm sitting there waiting tables. We had 13 sales every first day, so we had 50,000 our first year. Like 250,000 the next year. It was like six months was 50,000, and we just kept doubling year over year, and, like, it didn't feel real.

It's just. It's crazy. So, yeah, it was like. It's surreal, like, being in this space, we have people we know, people that make ten times what we. So we feel like we're small fish.

Kim Commando
And then what happened? What happened with the review?

Paul Baron
So we actually got an email from another customer that had this similar issue, but she emailed us first, and I horrified. She was like, hey, I received a diaper that was pooped in.

Can you explain what happened? I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, that's never supposed to be happening. Like, we asked Amazon to, like, but there's a setting that have all the returns sent back to us, and so we asked Amazon as much as we could at the time to not sell anything used.

And, like, that's all on Amazon. We're so sorry. Like, obviously, we send in everything packaged. Like, it's a diaper. Why would we ever send a used diaper?

And we refunded her money and sent her a new one in the mail. And then probably even the same day we got that other.

Rochelle Baron
No, it was the same day.

Paul Baron
The exact same day got a review.

And at the time you could leave comments on reviews. And so immediately I like left a comment like, hey, like, this is not total, this is not our fault. This is Amazon's like, I'll send you replacement. I can go in and refund your money. Like send us your order number because we can't see any of that.

Luckily, Amazon is really good about protecting like customer information, so we can't send any of that unless they communicate back to us. Like, all I could see is like review name and we could see her past reviews that she had left.

And then inside there's a way you can message people who review. So, like, it sends like an email inside Amazon's platform. So obviously we emailed her multiple times there as well.

She never replied nothing. So it's not like we could refund her money or send her a replacement because obviously, why would we ever like sell a used, it's frustrating because I think a lot of people and who, who was the person who used it and then send it back to Amazon?

Andrew Babinski
So just so we have this clear, you were having Amazon fulfill all your orders. They were sending out your brand new products when stuff was returned. They were accepting all of your returns. And then they were supposed to look at the return and say, oh, this was never used. We can put that in the resale box. And they took two used diapers that were so used they had poop in them and sent them out to new customers.

Paul Baron
They were visibly stained. And you could like, I wet ones like, in our returns.

Rochelle Baron
Disgusting.

Kim Commando
Yeah.

Andrew Babinski
It doesn't make any sense.

Kim Commando
So do you think so? The woman left a review and she left a nasty review, didn't she?

Rochelle Baron
Yeah. I mean, I would too. Honestly, a lot of people, like, they don't understand how Amazon works. Most people don't. Most people don't understand how it's FBA fulfillment by Amazon. And it's crazy because I did a few tick talks about this, done decently, 20,000 views. And a lot of people are like, why would you ever do that? And the thing is, at the height of our success, we were selling between 306 hundred units a day. And I don't want to be shipping that many steam diapers out. That's a lot. That's too much for us.

And at the time, like the cost, it made sense, right. And if Amazon did their job, you know, it would continue to make sense, but they just have perpetually dropped the ball and this is just one of many issues.

Andrew Babinski
All right. So now we have the review. It's living online in Amazon and it's hurting the product. Do you reach out to Amazon and say, hey, you guys screwed up a, fix it with these customers and b, take down the review?

Paul Baron
Yeah, we tried every single channel that we knew. So we created a support case and they're like, yeah, it's a review.

Yeah, well, and they like, we can't do anything about reviews.

And what was worse is that people kept up voting it. So at the time, reviews were shown on the screen by up or down. And so people would go in and upvote. And that could have been done by a competitor, that could have been done by just shoppers in general.

But so people were doing that. And the only way you can really get a review removed is by having someone else repeat it.

And because it was about the product, technically, like, Amazon was like, it's about the product. I'm like, well, no, but it's your fault because you shipped it.

A year later, we were introduced to some, like people who execs that had worked at Amazon, and they even gave us like all of their tricks. You know, there's an email, you emailed Jeff.

Rochelle Baron
They told us the exact outline of what. So jeffmazon.com comma, the exact outline of everything you need to email to get things taken care of. And there was still, because they were former execs, like, these guys had started some huge, like one of the dudes actually built seller central, which is crazy. So a lot of the people that they hired were still on staff at Amazon. They reached out to those people and those people said they couldn't do anything. It was insane.

Paul Baron
But the article that just came out said that Amazon was aware of the issue and we're working to fix issue four years, right?

Rochelle Baron
They said when we were made aware of the issue four years ago, we immediately started to make changes in the process so that this wouldn't happen again. However, the review remained in place for four years until Bloomberg wrote an article that's a little fishy.

Kim Commando
And so what happened to your sales?

Paul Baron
Well, I mean, this year we're at 400,000 where normally we would have been at seven to 8000 if we had made no changes as far as, like, adding products or things.

Andrew Babinski
That'S huge. That's a huge loss.

And you would think something that could have been fixed so quickly where Amazon goes, oh, yeah, we messed up. We shouldn't have done that. Delete the review.

No harm, no foul. Everybody carries on, right?

Rochelle Baron
You think, you think that they would.

Paul Baron
Refund the customer and then they would give us the refund for the damaged product because that's usually what happens when a customer damages a product. They fund us the money for the cost of the product, but they didn't either.

Kim Commando
So now with all this publicity from the Bloomberg article and you coming on and doing the whole media circuits circuit rather, has Amazon reached out to you and said, hey, listen, or is the review still up?

Paul Baron
No, it was removed same day, like within 4 hours of the article going live, I think was removed. I don't know if the reviewer removed it or if Amazon, no, Amazon, they.

Rochelle Baron
Said they removed it.

Paul Baron
Oh yeah.

Oh, finally we'll remove it because we're getting such a bad press. Oh no.

Andrew Babinski
In the article they actually caught up with the person who left the review and they said years ago, they're like, oh yeah, they reached out to me to take it down and I just never thought to do it and never had the time and totally forgot to.

Rochelle Baron
Yeah. So we didn't actually ask her to take it down because that would be a violation of terms of service.

Andrew Babinski
Okay.

Rochelle Baron
And so like one of the things that we have always done is we've never violated terms of service. In fact, the lady left review under her actual name. I was able to find where she lived in her occupation.

And so I could have flown out to there like found her address, I did, and like knocked on her door or even mailed her something, but I didn't do that because obviously that's really creepy. And then secondly, that's a massive violation of terms of service.

And it's frustrating to me that she said that she remembers and she just didn't have the time to remove it. And I don't think that she realized like the cascading events that she caused and like basically absolutely screwing our business over. Like we have so much debt right now because of this that like we.

Paul Baron
Had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising. So Amazon profited lots of money for us to maintain like our rank on the page because on Amazon it's all about where your placement is on the page as to how many people buy.

And so because that review, like our algorithm changed, like we lost it. Amazon has these best seller or these badges that say like frequently bought or Amazon choice. And because the review, we lost that, and so then the algorithm changes and so then we're not shown and our advertising costs change because of the algorithm.

It was really funny how it seems like something so small can make such a huge difference, but it really did.

Rochelle Baron
She's a lot more emotionally stable than I am.

I've spent, like, the last week, like, crying, sorry to do this, but it's like, it's a huge deal because we're struggling to pay our mortgage because of all the debt that we've taken on.

And the frustrating thing to me, in addition to this is this is like a baby. Like, I poured my blood, sweat tears into this for the last decade.

And I do a lot of public speaking on the Amazon circuit, teaching people how to market their businesses and get press and get pr and this sort of stuff. I feel like a massive fraud because I can barely make ends meet because of all the debt that we have. And, like, I don't even know if we can declare bankruptcy because our debt is attached to the house.

And if we declare bankruptcy, we're gonna lose the home.

And the thing that just gets me is like, we have, I have so many other product ideas and other things that we could do that we could become massively successful again, but we just don't have the money. Like, we can barely make ends meet, let alone place reorders for inventory. And I'm sorry for that.

She's like, spock over here.

I do enough crying for the most. To us.

Andrew Babinski
Well, I mean, I know the whole thing is life isn't fair, but in this circumstance, in this story, it's not fair. You did nothing wrong and your entire business was crippled because a Amazon screwed up and then Amazon wouldn't correct it when they easily could have.

Rochelle Baron
Yeah, it boggles.

Paul Baron
And it's the bottom of the barrel. Like, there's other things, too that Amazon has done. And it's not just our business.

It's. I don't. We. Paul posted a post on TikTok. On TikTok.

And all of the comments from all of our friends who sell, like, talking about all of the returns that they've had and the reviews that they have, like, products. Like, there's a guy that had such a negative review that he had to abandon the product completely.

So it is not like our story isn't the only one. It's just disgusting because ours was.

Rochelle Baron
Like.

Kim Commando
It'S a really situation, you know, it's hard because, you know, with such a marketplace like Amazon, you know, everybody says, you know, don't put your eggs in one basket, right?

But, you know, that basket is a huge cart. And there are so many people that shop on Amazon, you know, around the world, globally. And, you know, and thank you guys for telling your story because, you know, this is the other side that somebody might not think about. You know, when they're writing that review that. And I would be surprised if that Amazon doesn't come to you now because of all the publicity to say, you know, what can we do to make this right? Because obviously, they were clearly in the wrong. I mean, none of this should have happened. I mean, it was their fulfillment person that couldn't decide that this was a viable product that should not be resold as new. It had poop in it. Where is that person that thinks that a swim diaper with poop in it should be resold? I mean, where is that even logical? You know, that would even be conceivable in any small percentage. There's, like, there's no margin of error here, okay? It's a swim diaper. It shouldn't have poop in it. It shouldn't be remarketed and sold as new. I mean, so I would have to guess that Amazon's pr machine is fully aware of what's coming down and the retributions that is happening right now.

Rochelle Baron
But, yeah, no, they know. And I sent another email to jeff@Amazon.com. and I said, hey, guys, let's turn lemons into lemonade. We can figure out how we can take this, because I know from former executives and other people that work there that we were touted internally as a success story.

And I think that this is a fantastic time for them to put their money where their mouth is because Jeff has a $500 million yacht fly Kim Kardashian out, and they can do all sorts of things, and $500,000 is just dropping the buck.

And, I mean, there's no recourse for us legally, we can't sue them because we're locked into an agreement. You know, people are saying we should sue them, but we can't because of the, what are the bill of, is it the business? What is it? BSA business sellers agreement.

And, like, basically, we're locked arbitration. And so it's, it's frustrating.

I don't want to get litigious, and I can't again, but, like, for the pr angle, like, I think that this is a great time for Amazon to put their money where they're mouthed.

And I think that if they want to have another success story in us because we have been successful, we will be successful.

Like, contact us. Any, anybody watching this or listening to this show, if you. I mean, shoot. I'm gonna shoot my shot. If you are a retailer and you want to carry the best one diapers in the world, give us a call. Like, we would love to help you guys out. Like if, if you any, anybody contact us, we, we believe in our products. They're not crappy.

Kim Commando
That brings up. I just have one last question, because you bring up an interesting point.

Why not just open up another storefront?

Rochelle Baron
We've been selling online on our own shop for years on our own website years. The challenge there is that the cost to acquire a customer is about dollar 15 to dollar 20 per acquisition. And our average order value is about like now it's about 40. But it's still like not enough for really us to make ends meet. Really. It's on our website. I think it's about 30 ish. So if we're paying $20 and then all of our costs and everything considered, we're not making money driving traffic to our website.

Getting into retail has been a dream for us for forever because we know that we have the best product on the market and we just go to any online platform. Parents.com has had us listed the best for years.

I mean, we, we were on the Rachael Ray show back in 2016, had a meeting with Barbara Corcoran documented in Forbes back in 2017. Like, this is the best product. And like, getting into retail is awesome. It'd be amazing.

But the financial challenges right now are pretty huge for us.

Kim Commando
Yeah, I get that. I really was asking, like, why not another storefront on Amazon?

Paul Baron
Because you lose all the reviews. So if we were to start another listing for safe swim diapers, we lose all of the thousands of reviews that we have that are positive.

And without that history, without that backing the listing, again, it has a lot to do with the algorithm of ranking on the page. And it's really just not like it's not going to be financially like beneficial for us.

Kim Commando
Well, you know, I just wrote about something on total side note about you guys missed it. But it happens every June or July.

And you may even know about this, where you can go make a pitch to everybody at Walmart and have Walmart carry your product. And you, last time, last time I heard is that the percentages of the folks who actually submitted their application was actually fairly high because Walmart doesn't publicize that they do this every June or July. And so a lot of people aren't aware about it. And then, so that was the angle that I took, is that if you have a product, nobody, I don't know why, but they don't really spread the word that every June and July you can apply and then maybe go down to Arkansas, make your best pitch, keep us posted on how this turns out. I have a feeling you're going to be hearing from somebody at Amazon. And, Jeff, if you're listening or watching, you know, put the drink down. He doesn't eat octopus for breakfast. Put that down. And why don't you reach out to Paul and Rochelle and let's see if we can do right by them.

Rochelle Baron
Thank you so much, and we will keep you posted. Jeff, give me a call. My number is on the website.

Kim Commando
You got it.

Hey, thanks for jumping in there. I was having a little trouble. Their audio was going in and out.

Andrew Babinski
Oh, okay. Yeah. I was just about to apologize for hijacking the interview because I was so emotionally connected to these two. It is so unfair, and I am rooting for them so hard. And before the podcast, I actually went on Amazon and I searched for the diaper, and they are the number one listing that comes up. So. And the review wasn't there from what I saw because the description of the review would be the first thing you see, because the algorithm pushes it up because it's a one star review that's gotten a lot of attention.

Kim Commando
So let me ask you a question. The review's gone.

Do you think it was Amazon taking the review down, or do you think it was the woman who left the review up and then suddenly remembered that she did that?

Andrew Babinski
I think she took it down because in the story, she says, oh, yeah, I should have done that. I just never had the time. It kind of slipped my mind. A normal person, when you're finding out from a reporter that that review has turned a million dollar business into negative $600,000 in debt, would immediately log onto their Amazon account and hit delete.

I mean, if she has 2oz of a soul, I would think she would go on and do it. I think she's the one who deleted it.

Kim Commando
And on that happy note, remember, never trust a fart.

Andrew Babinski
That's a good one. That one caught me off guard.

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Kim Commando
Hey, it's Kim commando today. We're so glad that you're joining us. And just a quick reminder. Every Monday, Wednesday, Friday Pacific time, 11:30 a.m. you can actually watch us do Kim commando today@YouTube.com. kimcommando. We're on Rumble and Facebook and, you know, everywhere else but YouTube. I think it's in the easiest place. YouTube.com kimcommando.

All right, now I know the company that you're going to be talking about, Andrew. Yes.

And because do you remember who Kevin Mitnick was?

Andrew Babinski
No, I'm not familiar with that name.

Kim Commando
He was probably one of the first hackers.

And he figured out a way how to clone phone numbers and get into the phone systems. And he was caught and he was put in jail. And so when he actually landed at this company, he and I were going back and forth. Because I always had this great idea for a radio show to have him host it.

Andrew Babinski
Oh, okay.

Kim Commando
Because. And do it like the dark side of the Internet. So, so that's why. So it's. What's the name of this company? It's like b or no. Oh, no before.

Andrew Babinski
No before. Which is ironic that the name of the company is no before. And they had no idea that they had a north korean hacker working for them. So real quick.

Kim Commando
Yeah. And this is a cyber security company. Correct.

Andrew Babinski
What they do is they make training software for companies that teach their employees about phishing scams and cyber attacks. So that's what they do. And they decided to hire an IT guy who would work remotely and help them out on the backend. Great. Passed a background check. They hired him. He starts working. Well, he needs a laptop. And so they mail him out a Mac. And the day that he received it, all these bells and whistles and alerts started going off because there is malware just massively being loaded on his computer. And they were able to isolate it. And they call him up and they're like, hey, what's going on? What's with all the malware? His honest response was, I'm just following the directions of my router to deal with a speed issue.

And they're like, this is not right. And so they start investigating. And what they found out is they did not hire an american IT worker. What they had hired was a north korean hacker who falsified documents and identification and his, even his address to get in hired with the company and immediately attack them.

Isn't that crazy?

Kim Commando
It is. Okay, where was the background check?

Andrew Babinski
The article says that he told the whoever identity is he. That he had totally passed a background check. They even mailed the computer to his house, which was actually a hacker it farm where the people just accept the shipment, open up the computer connected to the Internet, VPN to the hackers, and now they have full access. He wasn't even in America doing this.

It's wild.

The lengths that they will go to now to give credit to the company. They recognized it immediately. They got government officials involved immediately. They tried to contact him to find out who he was, who he really was. And after one phone call, they called him. He said, I can't talk right now, hung up. And then they never heard from him again because he knew he was caught. They isolated everything. He never got access to the company. Man, what a scam.

Kim Commando
But, you know, imagine if he did have access. Oh, yeah, it's game over, right? Totally game over.

Andrew Babinski
And this know before, which again, I think is hilarious. That's what this company is called. This know before, they have contracts with government entities, with big businesses. He would have been connected to all of that. But because of their software, they were able to isolate it just to his computer.

Kim Commando
Wow, what a crazy story.

So word to the wise is that in person interviews are always super important.

Andrew Babinski
Skype doesn't cut it anymore this way, you know, before.

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Kim Commando
Ctmobile.com dot hey, it's Kim commando today. Super happy that you're here with us. Just a quick reminder, make sure that you enter to win that $1,000 vacation gift card right now@winfromkim.com. dot once again, that's winfromkim.com dot. All right, so this story has been going all over the Internet today, and it's not since, nothing new. I mean, we've been taught, we've talked about it here on the show about how you could create a digital version of yourself after you die and then using AI. It gets pretty crazy.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah, there's a, I think why this story is getting a lot more attention is because it has a testimonial in it. There's a man in China who went to this company and gave them all these pictures and information, text, letters from his mother, and they created an AI version of his mom. So when he pulls out his phone or his tablet from the. Basically the midsection up, it is a recreation of his mother. And he talks to her once or twice a week, and he considers that his mother is still alive and she lives inside this software and that she didn't die, and he's with her and she's always with him.

Kim Commando
Okay, could you do that?

Andrew Babinski
I don't want to do it. We die for a reason.

I mean, part of being human is dying and not have some ones and zeros create a. Have me continue to live on.

What about you? You know, you lost your mother. Would you recreate your mother and put her inside of an iPad?

Kim Commando
No, no, it's not. I couldn't do that.

Andrew Babinski
It's not the same.

Kim Commando
I just, you know, and I was so close to my mom. I mean, you know, I mean, has the idea run across my head, you know? And then the new part of my brain that just is working now is like, no way.

No way.

Andrew Babinski
We're awake now and we're not going to let you do this. Remember, though, one of the best anecdotes, real quick, one of the best anecdotes when it comes to this is we remember the amazing Jonathan. We had his partner on and she invested in this. And then the first thing she realized why this was a bad idea was that he was mean to her and he was nasty to her because they had had these moments in their lives and the AI just recreates that. And she wanted to remember him as the positive things of the amazing Jonathan. You don't want some AI grandma telling you to go clean up the kitchen.

Kim Commando
Although, did I ever tell you about the time, about the trash cans?

Andrew Babinski
No.

Kim Commando
So, years ago, I lived in a planned community with an Hoa, and my mother lived with me. You know, my mother lived with me for forever. I mean, after my dad passed away, he was young when he did, and she was like. I was like, okay, mom, you're just gonna live with me. So we were more friends than mother daughter. And so I forget where we were going. And so I had this woman who lived next to me who would always turn me into the hoa police, okay?

And every time she turned me into the hoa police, it cost me like $50 because it was a $50 fine to leave your trash cans out more than one day past trash day.

So I open the garage door and I see my next door neighbor at her mailbox, the one who always turns me in.

And I look at my mother and I said, mom, I know we're late, but I have to put the trash cans away or else the hoa police are going to be knocking on my door and serving me with a $50.

And I said this like in the so I was looking right at my neighbor, okay? And then my mother comes out and she's pointing her finger at me and she says, just because she's an asshole doesn't mean you can't be a good christian.

Andrew Babinski
Yeah, no, AI can recreate that.

Kim Commando
And she didn't even know it was funny.

Your mom, she didn't even know it was funny. I said, that is hysterical.

And she looked at me, she goes, what? What?

Andrew Babinski
She was just speaking the truth.

Kim Commando
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