Introducing Fintech Files from BCG Platinion

This episode explores the transformative potential of technology in enhancing financial inclusion and the role of diversity in the financial sector.

1. Technology is a key enabler of financial inclusion, which can help reduce poverty and boost shared prosperity.
2. There is a significant gender disparity in the financial sector, with women holding fewer senior positions.
3. Emerging technologies like blockchain and AI hold great potential for revolutionizing financial services.
4. Financial inclusion not only addresses economic disparities but also represents a significant market opportunity for fintech innovations.
5. Educational initiatives and diverse representation are crucial for fostering inclusivity in the fintech sector.

1. Opening Remarks

The hosts introduce the podcast and discuss its focus on fintech and financial inclusion. Vera Futorjansky: "Every third person in the world is unbanked. It just blows my mind."

2. The Role of Technology in Financial Inclusion

Vera discusses how technology can bridge financial divides and enhance accessibility to financial services. Vera Futorjansky: "Technology's transformative potential is massive in finance."

3. Gender Disparity in Finance

The conversation shifts to the underrepresentation of women in finance, discussing the barriers they face. Vera Futorjansky: "Women hold only about one third of senior positions in finance."

4. The Impact of Emerging Technologies

Discussion on how blockchain and AI are used to improve financial services and inclusion. Vera Futorjansky: "Blockchain and AI are game changers for financial accessibility."

5. Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the power of fintech for societal advancement. Vera Futorjansky: "We need more diversity to truly innovate in fintech."

1. Educate yourself about financial technology and its implications for inclusion.
2. Support or mentor women and underrepresented groups in fintech.
3. Consider the impact of your investment choices on diversity and inclusion.
4. Stay informed about new technologies like AI and blockchain that can transform financial services.
5. Engage with platforms and startups that prioritize financial inclusion.

This week on In Her Element, we're bringing you Fintech Files, a podcast from BCG Platinion. A show where we delve deep into the dynamic landscape of Fintech, NeoBanks, and the Digital Banking world, sparking insightful conversations with industry disruptors from around the globe.

In this episode, we ask the question: “How many globally lack access to banking?” Astonishingly, one in three. In this insightful conversation, Vera Futorjanski, former Head of Communications at Rocket Internet and founding member of Dubai Future Accelerators, shares her journey. Emphasizing the transformative role of technology, she explores challenges and strategies to enhance accessibility and diversity in finance through education and innovation.

About Fintech Files:

So, what are the most groundbreaking trends shaping the future of Fintech, and how will they impact your financial world? Fintech Files takes an accessible approach to technology. We break down complex topics and have our guests explain them in a relatable "explain it to your grandma" style. In every episode, we focus on real-world stories of how financial technology operates, demystifying complex concepts and making them relatable for both Fintech enthusiasts and professionals.

The Hosts of Fintech Files:

Fintech Files is hosted by Nora Hocke, a manager at BCG Platinion in Munich, and Annika Melchert, a principal currently based in the Middle East. Our hosts specialize in IT strategy, modern tech architecture, and state-of-the-art banking. In their work, they've collaborated with some of today's most innovative Fintechs to transform their organizations; including supporting generative AI use cases. With their unique blend of tech expertise and passion, they bring you stories that capture the essence of the evolving Fintech landscape. This season, we're thrilled to introduce Bianca Lopes. Originally from Brazil and currently based in Denmark, Bianca is an entrepreneur and economist with a remarkable background in digital identity and biometrics. Throughout her career, she has supported over 40 financial institutions and 8 governments, reshaping their approach to technology, reimagining identity, and driving innovation agendas.

We Want to Hear from You!

Reach out to us at fintech-podcast@bcgplatinion.com with your questions, guest suggestions, or topics you'd like us to explore. Or just drop in to say hi! Visit our website at https://bcgplatinion.com/insights/podcast-fi/ and follow us on social media for updates and additional content.

We’ll be back next week with a new episode of In Her Ellement with your hosts Suchi Srinivasan & Kamila Rakhimova from BCG, where we’ll hear meaningful conversations with women and allies in digital, technology, and business.

People

Vera Futorjansky, Anika Melkert, Bianca Lopes, Nora Hocker

Companies

BCG Platinion, Beyond Global, Veritas Ventures, Rocket Internet, Dubai Future Accelerators, 500 Startups

Guest Name(s):

Vera Futorjansky

Content Warnings:

None

Vera Futorjansky

I'm shocked every time I say this sentence. Every third person in the world is unbanked. It just blows my mind. How can we, you know, while we are building in hyperloops and flying taxis and going to Mars, still have every third person unbanked? What is financial inclusion?

It's a key enabler to reduce extreme poverty and boost shared prosperity, right? I mean, that's what we want. What we want is to get more people to have access to money. Did you know that women currently hold only about one third of senior positions in finance? The gender disparity is even more pronounced at the highest level, with only 13% of companies in one study having a female chief financial officer this week on.

Anika Melkert

In her element, we're bringing you Fintech files by BCG Platinum, where we delve into the tech in fintech and explore the most innovative trends reshaping the world of financial services. In this podcast series, we navigate the dynamic landscape of fintech, neo banks and digital banking, engaging in insightful conversations with industry disruptors from around the globe. Your hosts, Nora Hocker and Anika Melkert from BCGplatinian, bring their expertise in it strategy and modern tech architecture, along with Bianca Lopeth, a seasoned entrepreneur and economist with a remarkable background in digital identity and biometrics. This episode is empowering finance through financial inclusion, and we're honored to host Vera Futoyansky, founder and CEO of Beyond Global and Veritas Ventures. Vera is the former head of communications at Rocket Internet and a founding member of Dubai Future Accelerators.

She emphasizes the transformative potential of technology to enhance accessibility and diversity in finance through education and innovation. If you're passionate about hearing inspiring stories of women's journeys and tech careers, Fintech Files is a must. Listen. If you like this episode, subscribe to Fintech files wherever you get your podcast to stay up to date on the show.

Bianca Lopes

This is Bianca with Fintech Files and I'm so excited to have our guest here, 2024 starting with fire. In her previous career, she started as a tango dancer, but her names and achievements after that would leave you amazed. Vera, welcome to Fintech files. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Tell us a little bit about your history and we'll keep it in English for this podcast, but I know you can do it also in German, Russian and Spanish. Well, I was born in Kazakhstan to a very mixed heritage family, a russian ukrainian father, german french mother, moved to Germany, went to high school in the US, went to university in the UK in New Zealand. Wow. Then went to work in the European Union studying political science at the LSE. That was kind of the direct preparation to go into work in the EU.

Vera Futorjansky

I really wanted to move into a fast paced environment. And at that time it was really the technology environment. So I moved to Berlin and joined a company called Rocket Internet that at that time was really building up the ecosystem in Germany. So I joined them and talking about technology, I saw a tweet on Twitter back then, now x, saying, we're looking for a head of communication. So I just wheeled back saying, hi, I'm available, and they want to come in for an interview.

I came in, I got the job, I moved to Berlin. It was really, really fast. For those of you who haven't googled or checked it out, Rocket Internet is one of the largest success stories in IPO in Berlin's and european history. So being with Rocket for a few months here in Berlin and seeing so many startup founders, and I saw it was usually white young men from a good university with a consulting background. And I was like, well, I come from a good university, London school of economics.

I have a consulting background. I'm not a young white male. And that was a big problem. So I'm like, okay, send me anywhere, anywhere you need support, I go. So they said, we need an entrepreneur in residence in Dubai.

So I went to Dubai to help them launch a company. While I was there, I saw an opportunity for a booking app to book appointments online. So I launched that app and then shortly after, or about a year after running it, Dubai government reached out and said, hey, you know, we're ready to build entrepreneurial ecosystem. Please come and join us to build Dubai future accelerators. And it was such an appealing offer, I loved it.

So I joined Dubai government to build Dubai future accelerators as part of the founding team. The idea was to get different government departments to really think about the future. Where is it that you want to be in ten years from now, and what is standing in your way? What are the challenges, what are the gaps in order to get there? So what we then do is to look around the world for startups that can actually solve those challenges and then bring those startups to Dubai and pair them with a particular government department.

I can give you a specific example for the Road and Transportation Authority were looking into what can we do on the transportation side, and we brought Hyperloop one, for example, to really look into can we build a hyperloop between Abu Dhabi and Dubai? And we also brought Uber's vtols, vertical takeoff and lensing because Dubai government still is very serious about flying taxis. So those were really high imagination, big futuristic projects we worked at back at Dubai government, at Dubai Future foundation. And after that I joined a venture capital firm called 500 startups. Now they're called 500 global, they're renamed.

And I was in charge of the Middle east and most importantly to open the Saudi Arabia market for them in order to build the ecosystem there. You know, a lot of people today when they think of Dubai, they think of the futuristic city that now today stands. A lot of us have worked or suffered stories of dealing with trying to innovate with large governments bureaucracy. Speed of adoption is not what comes to mind. How is that different there?

So when I was with Dubai Future Foundation, I went to a trip to the US with my boss at that time, the CEO of Dubai Future foundation, who went to Washington DC and had, he gave a talk at one of the co working places where lots of ecosystem players came together. And afterwards several of them came to me and said, you know, we really don't understand this. This is the main difference between the US and UAE. It seems in many western and kind of Middle eastern countries they told me we do not want the government to be involved because it actually slows us down. Whereas in the UAE and also in Saudi Arabia, we as entrepreneurs, we want the government to be involved because that speeds things up.

And I think that is a big difference between if you like, developed and developing markets. I would have experienced the same vera working in african identity in a lot of the inclusion projects I've worked in. You know, sometimes people ask, why do these developing? And I'll put it in heavy quotes here, leapfrog and change. It's because there's necessity, and a lot of necessity drives like intuitive behavior.

Bianca Lopes

And I think that's the really exciting power of technology. You have seen this and you devoted a lot of your work to looking as well as what's the impact? So in developing countries or nations that are evolving this fast, there's always a gap. One of the things we do at Fintech files is we like and love talking about financial inclusion. And one of our tricks here is to always start with a big jargon of financial inclusion.

What does it mean? And if you could explain it to, like your grandma, how would you explain financial inclusion to your grandma? That's a very good question. I would start with something shocking and I'm shocked every time I say this sentence that every third person in the world is unbanked. It just blows my mind.

Vera Futorjansky

How can we, you know, while we are building in hyperloops and flying taxis and going to Mars, still have every third person unbanked. So I would start with that sentence, my grandma is shocked by now. Then I would say, okay, grandma, what can we do? I mean, what is financial inclusion? It's a key enabler to reduce extreme poverty and boost shared prosperity, right?

I mean, that's what we want. What we want is to get more people to have access to money.

Let's take a quick dive into the roots of financial inclusion, tracing back to the 1970s when the microfinance movement took flight. Visionaries like Mohamed Yunos and the Grameen bank pioneered this movement, championing inclusivity and finance. The concept revolves around microcredit, tiny loans that, for instance, empowered bangladeshi women to build businesses like crafting baskets. Now back to Vera. In the Middle east, what we have seen that while the whole world is reducing investments in the BNPL by now, pay later startups, it has actually grown in Saudi Arabia.

Vera Futorjansky

And I see that as a big sign of including everybody into the system, of really giving everyone, including women, access to money. I can even take a step back. That pre pandemic, for example, in Saudi Arabia, most payments were done cash. One of rocket Internet companies I was also involved in is Namsh, which is a big fashion online e commerce. And there, one of the biggest challenges they faced was that everything was a cash payment in Saudi Arabia.

And during COVID a lot of saudi households had to shift to credit cards. The region's latest new unicorns are both in the BNPL by now, pay later. So in the fintech market, which shows how much importance we give to make finance more inclusive. Tabi and Tamara have recently raised a lot of money. Now both of them are saudi based and are looking to expand in the region.

I mean, as you know, India is right next door as well. With the largest population in the world. With so many unbanked people, there are just so many opportunities in the region. And I mean, I really hope that some of the listeners on this podcast realized, you know, what opportunities aren't actually consider building their startups. A lot is being done on the regulation side and I think it's going to be easier going forward.

But also in general, Dubai is an easy to live place. You've been as well you visited so you know Dubai quite well. It's a big hub for startups. I mean, all of this stems from wanting to diversify from an oil based economy to a knowledge based economy. That was also the idea behind when back then we built the Bifida accelerators and diversified the economy, a lot to unpack there.

Bianca Lopes

And Vera, between financial inclusion to your grandma, who's definitely most likely shocked, and I also find that statistic shocking in the sense that we're all inventing, as you said, flying to the moon, Mars and whatever, and yet, poverty premiums, we know who pays for them and why they're called such a way. And we still have reportings of billions of dollars every quarter by banks. Seeing those investments, seeing those unicorns in the credit space, we've yet to really crack the surface and transform and change. And I'd like to thank or attribute that to the lack of diversity in the space as well. You talked a little bit about the opportunity between the different countries and migration of entrepreneurs.

Being both women, we kind of know that the industry is a little, still short to come. When I talk about the unicorns and the funding being in the place, you've seen this in many phases and identities of your career, the challenges, the opportunities. Talk to me about the inclusion part from that perspective. Oh, Bianca, you're really touching a big pain point here. We're gonna get into it.

We have to talk about reality. We have to talk about the realities of things. 100%. I mean, what has changed is that now I'm talking to a room where 50% are women, and that is really a huge difference from ten years ago when I first arrived to Dubai. So we do have 50% women in the room already.

Vera Futorjansky

Having said that, those 50% are not necessarily at sea level. I am hopeful. I do see that there is change happening, especially in Saudi Arabia. If I go back in your incredible history, like in an lp, in a fund, we all know the stats, right? This isn't about some sort of, like, really nice to have.

Bianca Lopes

We understand that. So what is it that investors were looking for back then? Or what have you seen them look for when you think about it in this lenses, in this context of diversity? Yeah. So let me just put this other shocking stats out there that I'm sure many of your listeners know, but just to bring everybody on the same page, of all globally available funding that's out there for startups, only 2% go to female founders.

Vera Futorjansky

I feel like every time I need to pause after this, so it really sinks in. Only 2%. We should find like a music effect. Mic drop. Like, mic drop.

Horrible. 2212. Exactly. I mean, isn't that shocking? Only two.

Only two. 2% go to female founders. And that is a shocking number which has to change. It can only change if, of course, we have more female founders out there, but they have a lot. I don't think that's the issue.

We need more female investors. When I was on the investment side, I am an angel investor. I invest in female startups. I try to bring as many women around me into the investment space. You don't need to be rich to be investing.

You can start with $1,000. You can be supporting. You can get shares by supporting the startup. It really is important that women realize they can diversify the wealth from not just investing in assets they know like real estate, but actually investing in startups. Yes, it is a risky business.

Nine out of ten startups fail. I'm sorry to bring so many shocking statistics here, but, you know, let's just be real. It's good. This is a reality check. 2024, checking one, 2% again.

Let me just also finish with one more on the LP side. So I'm an LP in the most active african fund called Launch Africa. They're doing an amazing job covering all Africa and I wish there would be more female LP's. Out of the 200 LP's, there are only nine are women. And that number needs to change as well.

I feel like we need to do much more education, much more what we're doing right now. And thank you for bringing me on this podcast to show women you don't need to have studied finance or you don't need to have been working in finance all your life to become a limited partner and a fund, to become an angel investor, or even to go and build a startup. Even though building the startup is probably the hardest of them all. Being an investor is so much easier than being a founder. Being a founder is really, really tough.

I want to give a shout out to all the founders out there, male or female. It is so hard. And that every day out there, fighting, making it work. I mean, I've been a founder myself twice now. I would probably choose investor.

Bianca Lopes

You've debunked a few myths, like, you don't need to be rich. You can start with something more fractional or smaller, but I think it's the starting and that goes on. Community. And you're all about that. Beyond community.

Tell us, what is it about? It's aligned with everything you just shared with me that needs to happen in the industry and something you live every day. Thank you so much, Bianca, for bringing beyond into this. Yes, I'd love to speak about beyond. It's a curated community of female leaders that I have launched last year, in fact, on International Women's Day.

Vera Futorjansky

I've done lots of research prior to that to understand what is it that women really want? You know, what are we seeking? A lot of that is belonging. Women really want community. They want to be part of a safe and trusted space where they know that other women actually really have their back, where they know they are forming real friendships, especially COVID.

I think, well, as we all know, really made people lonely. So people are craving community. We want to be part of something and want to grow as well. We have this growth mindset. So beyond is also about growth, about bringing women together to talk about topics like we spoke before, diversifying your investments, investing in art, attending beautiful cultural concerts together, because creativity and, you know, beauty will save the world.

As Dostoevsky said, I'm creating a safe, trusted space of women who are accomplished, who are global, of women who potentially would never have a chance to meet. One of my main missions is to bring really diverse women together, and I'm talking about european and saudi women, for example. It's very typical. Every time I come to Germany and speak to my girlfriends who are based here, they never had an opportunity to meet a Saudi Emirati or omani woman. And I want to change that.

I think it's really important. In order for us to live in this global world, we need to understand each other much more. And it seems like we don't over social media or the old narrative that we have in the media, which is completely outdated and actually shows us history and not reality, especially if I look at what is being shown about Saudi Arabia in the western world. I must say I'm shocked. I've seen a change over the past six years, so much.

But these new changes, you don't really see them in the media. And I would love to bring real women in real in person settings together. I'm also an economist and studying segregation theory and looking at the world as a zero sum game is so sad and has gotten us to the disaster mess that we currently find ourselves in. I think there isn't a time or for the need for compassion, empathy. And what you're speaking of is, you know, the human bridges, for that perspective to happen, for business to happen, for daring to happen.

Bianca Lopes

We're so scared, and it's so cool that you're doing that. It's about presence. So it sounds like a fintech files beyond community mashup in the making. Yeah, I would love that. Let's do it.

The tough conversations are to do with what's really happening. Like we talked here, financial inclusion, buzzwords, around AI, like, what is the real impact and the reality? And I think that starts with, like, debunking these old narratives and those stories that probably never served us anyways. When we talk diversity and we talk this stuff, you'll get some eye roll, all right, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to leave the room now.

We're not talking business. The hype keeps going around most of these things, and I think we've built distorted realities and unconnected technology. When you do this work, you see people in beyond community, around all areas. And I know in the Middle east, there is a lot of movement around web three. A lot of investment, a lot of funds going into it, aka a lot of attention and legislation.

And there's a lot of jurisdictions that have taken leaps of bounce forward here.

For those of you who don't know, web three marks the upcoming era of the Internet, spotlighting decentralization, interoperability and user autonomy. Just picture a web where users wield greater control over their data services seamlessly converse and centralized authorities relinquish some of their power. In this era, technologies like blockchain take center stage, weaving a tapestry of openness, security and collaboration in the online realm.

Bianca Lopes

What have you seen, what have you seen in terms of the opportunities, the things that have happened in the space, the diversity that exists in that space through all your lenses? Talk to me, Vera, about that. Yeah, thank you for bringing this up, Bianca. And without sounding too real, is this another shocking stuff? Not shocking, but maybe more of a personal disappointment, really.

Vera Futorjansky

I was very hopeful when the whole web three space conversations came up. I was so early in that space. I mean, I've invested myself very early in crypto because I had one of the companies who brought to Dubai back then was consensus in order to build a blockchain strategy. When Dubai had those plans of becoming a paperless government, all government transactions on blockchain were brought in consensus. I got to meet Joe Lubin and I said, okay, I'm going to invest in ETH.

And that's how my crypto investment strategy started back in 2020, 2016, I think it was. And then web three came up, and I was early in that was chosen to be one of the hundred women of the future. It was all about web three, and so much talk about how this will be different, how we are going to build a new world, really. We know that web two was built by a certain demographic in San Francisco, usually a white male, or maybe not always white, but it was a male demographic that built the web two world. So when we started talking about web three.

So many of women in my community were really hopeful. This is going to be a big change. Metaverse came up. I was part of lots of communities. I bought so many nfts to support communities, especially women in VC.

I have five nfts of women in VC. It didn't go anywhere. I lost all that money, but or not lost, I invested into it, but unfortunately it didn't really become anything. And ecosystems aren't built in a day. Silicon Valley took decades.

So only because we expect everything to move so fast nowadays doesn't mean that it has to. We need to have patience as well. I think we need to remain hopeful. AI is a big topic. I know lots of founders, female founders in AI.

I think especially also now this year in Davos. AI is one of the big key themes for this World Economic Forum. As you know, I am curating a woman in AI breakfast as well, where it's for women in AI to come together, to have the conversation, to see how can we collaborate, how can we build this together, how can we get more investment into that space. So if you would put, let's say, AI into that same bucket with web three, I'm really hopeful. I think lots of great things will come out of it.

I would love, of course, to see more women in AI on c level as well. I recently I listened to a podcast, or I think it was an article that I listened to on the Courier app that said Sam Altman was quoted more last year than all the c level women in AI together, and that needs to change.

Credit for this statistics goes to Luba Kasova in the Guardian. Shockingly, Sam Altman's quotes in AI news coverage last year surpassed those of all female AI experts listed in Times magazine. Top AI influencers combined. It's hard to believe, but sadly it's true. For more details, check out our show notes for the article.

If you're interested in hearing the perspectives of female leaders in AI, don't miss our episode on Gen AI for financial institutions with Kirsten Rolf. Kirsten, a former senior policy advisor to Angela Merkel, played a pivotal role in negotiating the UAI act. Her episode is filled with amazing insights into the regulatory challenges associated with AI. A must listen.

Vera Futorjansky

We need more c level women in the AI space to be quoted in global media. We need more role models. Young women have to see. You know, as they say, you can't be what you can't see. And nowadays you can see so much more thanks to social media.

So we just need to make sure. How can we get more women out there who talk about this, who become the go to experts on the topics, who are the people we're quoting? And with that will come change. Often the conversation can change by telling them that the demographics they're trying to sell to are not just Sam Altman. So when we think about the heroes we're building or the savior stories we're repeating, I think it's often one that requires education.

I'd like to give credit to guys like Sam Altman as well. So I'm all about diversity. We need Sam Altman. So what he has done with OpenAI, his whole team behind it, is amazing. I mean, one of the most important things is funding.

We need more funding for women in the AI space for that, we need more female lp's, limited partners who become limited partners of venture capital firms who can then have a say in what I want to invest in. So it is not an overnight solution. It's not, unfortunately, a fast, kind of quick. Also, we don't want a band aid. We really want to go to the core of it.

And it starts with education. Let's create more opportunities for young girls to build, to learn. You know, nowadays it's so much easier. You can take your phone and learn on YouTube how to build an app or how to, like what is AI, how to use chaigbt. So with that, we're already including so many more people, young people, women under, you know, underserved communities into our created systems.

Bianca Lopes

We always like a fintech files asking or experts. And you here, Vera, what are some of the things that when you're looking at your crystal ball and you're looking ahead, that you're either excited or, you know, no investment advice here, but just, you think, are going to make a considerable change in the world that get you up in the morning. We'll always say talent is everywhere. Opportunities are not right. So I think what is really essential is that we make sure we bring those opportunities to remote areas.

Vera Futorjansky

We make sure that a young girl in Bangladesh has access, has role models, has opportunities to grow and become into something that she would love to be. I strongly believe, you know, the next Marie Curie will not come from a developed country. She will be from a small village in a place that we probably have never heard of. Cheers to that. Cheers to educating us that things like Burundi are going to have millions of people and half the people don't even know it's a country.

Yeah, I just went to Bhutan this past year. A couple of months ago, a country that is still very close. You can't even go without a guide. The king, which I had the pleasure and honor, actually, to meet the little group I went with, we met with the king would discuss his plans, his vision. He has a 400 years plan.

Bianca Lopes

What an opportunity. What an opportunity. What an opportunity for startups, for education, for well being, for wisdom, knowledge. And you being from Brazil, Bianca, you know so much about it, how important it is to actually listen to those who came before us. Right?

Vera Futorjansky

Our ancestors. I also love to say that we are the ancestors of our future. It's really important what kind of future we leave behind. What I would love to is that we have more space, more opportunity to dream really big, to let our imagination flow. That means bringing diverse people together.

I think going back to beyond, why I think that's so important is because only with that diversity can you really create something truly innovative. And one last thing that I would like to say is, with all that we do in the world and with everything we're trying to impact the legacy we want to leave behind, I think it's really important that we don't forget our mental health and our well being, because that's the key for everything. If we're not healthy, if we're not well, if we don't give enough self love to ourselves, we can't give love to the world. I thank you for sharing with Vintak files your story and reminding us to be present something usually used and often forgotten. Oh, Bianca, I couldn't have summed it up better than you.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a really wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed. Thank you.

Vera raised insightful points about financial inclusion based on her extensive experience. Let's delve into some key insights. And Anika, I'm super curious on your experience here. Since you've been living in Dubai before you now live in Riyadh, what's your take on financial inclusion in the Middle east? Similar to other parts all around the world, there has been a big boom in the last year, so it's really now super easy, accessible for everyone to start either saving money or also spending money.

For instance, the neo bank Vaio, they have basic interest rates on their normal account of 6%, which makes it like, super accessible and super easy for everyone to open their account, since it's a fully digital bank, and then also to start saving your money. Other cool fintechs which really make it easy to start is, for instance, Sava. It's like an all in one investment platform where you can basically handle your ETF's, you can also trade and start with crypto there. So those kind of fintechs really make it super easy for everyone to start here. And apart from this, another topic which directly comes to my mind when, like, listening to various episodes is maybe everything related to financial education.

We talked about the example from Bangladesh where women started with their microfinance, and this is something which really impressed me, honestly, how this has started and how it's currently continuing to be. What's your perspective here, Nora? For me, it's just exciting to see that an industry or a community, which is fintech and neo banking, like the whole digital banking world, how a technology, digitalization and the Internet, in the end bring inclusion to people all around the world. And that's really, really exciting to see how technology can play an actual role in progressing our society. I agree here, and I think also the breadth of financial inclusion based on technology is tremendous.

If you remember when we started our very first ETF account, I think it was when COVID hit us and we were like missing our vacation and then all opened up our broker instead of flying to Texas to a conference. And keeping in mind how many influences you now have outside, I know the german one, Madame Penny, but there are also lots of international ones who start on financial education to make it accessible for everyone. Of course, you have those female focused ones, but there are also some with different focus areas, which really makes it super easy, accessible and then also easy to achieve, depending on your starting point. Couldn't agree more. If it wasn't for trade republic, I wouldn't have started investing.

Agree. So we can say, thanks to accessible technologies, we started at a quite decent time with our ETF. I think apart from this, what really was impressive for me to listen to was the synergy of financial inclusion and AI. Nora, you're the expert here. Maybe you can explore a little bit what's your perspective here.

Yeah, it's a super, super interesting combination of topics, financial inclusion and AI, because there's quite an interdependency here. On one side, you can actually leverage AI a lot. So one aspect of how AI can actually support financial inclusion is by making financial services more accessible, for example, to people with disabilities as well. On the other side, you need to make sure that the way you use AI, it is done in an inclusive way. And that includes making sure that the way the AI acts, the data it is based on, is inclusive in the very first place, that you're not just, for example, that you're not just training it with data from male investors, for example, or you're just looking at male dominated content, for example, in investor forums, just to name a few examples.

So there's quite an interdependency. But I would say if done right, AI can actually supercharge financial inclusion here.

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