#913 - "Take 6!, Listener Feedback, and a Wild Week at SCOTUS!"

Jesse Dollemore
The following broadcast may contain free thinking. And open minded discussion. Ideas, skepticism, and adult subject matter. Topics will be discussed using adult language, sometimes gratuitously. Get ready to move the conversation forward.

This ain't your granddad's news and comments show. This is I doubt it podcast with Brittany Page and Jesse Dolomore.

Welcome to the show, episode 913 of I doubt it podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Dolomore, joined today by the lovely, talented and indeed scholarly Brittany page. Well, you got to see one of your favorite bands yesterday. Oh, yeah. Take six.

Yeah. And for people who don't know what take six is, how would you, how would you describe the musical stylings of the band? Heavy jazz influences, heavy gospel? Gospel, Acapella band. How about that?

Brittany Page
And so people hearing that may think, huh, Jesse? Yeah, I mean, it's very formative. In my development as a music appreciator. They were, it is interesting. I posted, it's like music group.

Jesse Dollemore
I posted the picture of me with the, the marquee take six appearing tonight and on, on YouTube in my community tab. And I said something about this music group, you know, got me through some life or something like that. And they were like music group, like sports team. I think they were kind of making fun of me. But I don't know if I call him a band because it's, there's no instruments.

I don't know why that seems awkward to me, but there's certainly a band. Yeah. It's kind of like as a hot dog. A sandwich situation here. Maybe a little bit.

Yeah. What's the definition of a band? I'm not sure, but they, they were a big influence on me. Help me get through boot camp. You know when in boot camp you get 4 hours in a marine corps bouquet, you get 4 hours of free time on Sundays, like to go to church or maybe do your laundry or whatever.

And I was in the, in church, I did the music in front of like however many 2000 recruits or however many people the Protestants go to church. You were in the band. I guess I was in the band, right. Except we weren't a band. It was just me and some other dudes.

Just. Were there instruments though? No, just acapella. Okay. I guess we were considered a band.

It was just like leading, singing or whatever. A music group. Yeah, I guess. I guess. And so, but I sang, I introduced take six songs into the, into the thing and it, it was, uh, I don't know.

Brittany Page
Were they popular? Take six? No. Introducing take six songs to the. I guess.

Jesse Dollemore
Was it a popular move me and the, and the. The gentleman who, who accompanied me, but I don't. I don't know. People, like, people are clamoring for take six, but it's. It's very jazz influenced.

It was amazing to see them, and they haven't missed a fucking beat after 40 years. I mean, they've been a band since 1980. I wasn't into them until the nineties or the late eighties. And, man, I mean, it's. Every one of those dudes must have perfect pitch because they, you know, when you watch a show and it's like that, that note didn't really.

There wasn't a single moment where I was, like, cringey at all. It's like when I'm doing a peloton ride and the peloton instructor's trying to sing. Yeah. And I'm alone in the room on the peloton bike, and I'm making that, like, chrissy Teigen meme face when she's in at the oscars. Yeah, I totally agree.

What'd you think of them? No, I thought they were great. I don't particularly like, I don't listen to them in my free time. I don't. Even if it comes up on your playlist, it's something that maybe I don't particularly want to be playing at the time.

Yeah, I get that. I get that. But I really liked it. And part of it is their first two songs were right up my alley. The first song was an limited song, and the second one was earth, wind and fire.

Brittany Page
And then their finale was ambrosia. So I loved it. Yeah, it was a great show. And, yeah, they're objectively talented. They're objectively good.

I mean, you're sitting there listening to people who are objectively talented. How could you not just sit there and marvel at it? And I definitely got emotional at times. They were obviously very influenced by God, religion, church. They talked about God quite frequently, and one of them was a pastor, apparently, and that was made apparent when he, like, told this story very perfectly.

And it was beautiful, and I was getting emotional. I'm like, of course, he's a pastor. He's very talented at doing what he just did for the audience. You know, making us reflect on our lives and taking you to church. Yeah.

And they had you, like, turn to the person next to you and say something to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was very church influenced. I did not do that. I did.

Jesse Dollemore
I also did not do that during church. When I would go to church, I. Used to not do it during church. But that's because I had my siblings with me, and they called it the mingling session. Thankfully, when I started running the soundboard, I didn't have to participate in this, but if I was out in the audience, we would have the mingling session, and they would tell you to turn to the people behind you, the people in front of you, and say, hi.

Brittany Page
And my siblings and I would just shake each other's hands and be like, hello. How are you? How's it going? Yes. Nice to meet you.

Jesse Dollemore
Yeah, we used to do that, too. Cause it was always like they did last night, turn to the person next to you and tell them, God loves you, or whatever prescribed statement it was. And I always felt weird doing that, so I just would, like, stare at my feet or whatever. I think he said, turn to the person next to you and say they're a changemaker or something. Yeah, I like that.

Brittany Page
And I thought that was nice. If he would have said, turn to the person next to you and say, God loves you, I would have been like, I don't know. I don't know that I'm gonna turn and say that. Well, the guy you turned to got a kick out of it. He did.

Yeah, he was into it. So. So I'm glad that you were able to have that experience, and me, too, that you were able to see them. And thanks for getting those tickets. They're still on the road talking about, you know, driving from Philadelphia or wherever they were.

Pittsburgh. I don't know. Yeah, Pittsburgh. And it's kind of funny to imagine them all in a van. Multi grammy winning, amazing group that if you have the chance and you're not like a.

Jesse Dollemore
A weirdo about acapella, then. Cause it's not like, pitch perfect. It's not like that kind of a capella. It's like the first track. You couldn't even like, is there a track plane?

And there's no. There's no instruments. Yes. And there's not a track plane. It's just them.

Brittany Page
Right. And you wouldn't be able to tell it was for sure. Fucking amazing. Well, and also, let's just say if there's, like, someone new listening to this and they're like, you know, a non believer, and hearing us have this conversation, like, promoting this gospel group, we're also non believers. And that's the point.

Point is, like, it goes beyond just the messaging that's happening. There is in a level of emotionality in the room where you're experiencing this with a lot of other people, and we were in there with mostly believers and it was still a fantastic experience. He asked, like how many people had gone to church today and we were definitely in the minority. And by the way, I still listen to a lot of gospel music. I listen to Mississippi Mass choir.

Jesse Dollemore
I listen to a lot of gospel music because it's objectively fucking good. Yeah, it had me reflecting on the positive experiences I had in church, which all come back to community. Feelings of community. For sure. For sure.

All right, before we move on, let's take a moment to thank the sponsor of today's episode, uplift Standing desk. In this increasingly technological world that we live, we only seem to spend more time hunched over our gadgets, legs pretzeled and twisted and backs arched, staring at the almighty screen. We are better than this. We need to stand up for ourselves, improve our bodies and our brains. That's why Jesse and I changed to an uplift standing desk.

Brittany Page
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Jesse Dollemore
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Move more with Uplift desk. Head to upliftdesk.com I doubtit or just click the link below to score 5% off of your first purchase when you use code Idoutit at checkout. Work better live healthier with uplift desk moving on to a little listener communication. If you'd like to sound off, get your voice on the record, ask a question, make a comment at 657-464-7609 and of course, you can email a voice memo or just an email to I doubt it at dollar more.com. So we're going to start with two emails related to a conversation that we had on the previous episode where Matt Walsh was featured in our asshole of today segment for his criticisms of Caitlin Clark and the WNBA, while at the same time continuing to pretend that he cares about, quote unquote, protecting women's rights sports.

Brittany Page
And we. We talked about that in the broader conversation of just him attacking trans rights. So this is our first email. Dear Jesse, Brittany, and especially sweet pea, great job on the Caitlin Clark and WNBA story and putting that slug Matt Walsh in his place with cold, hard facts. I know neither of you are golf watchers, and I assume that goes for sweepy, so I thought I'd let you know about a woman professional golfer on the LPGA Tour named Nellie Corda, who just last Sunday won her fifth straight start.

That's a feat only done twice before. Once on the LPGA Tour by Annika Sorensen, parenthetically, arguably the best woman golfer in history, and once on the PGA Tour by Tiger woods. If she was to win the next tournament she plays in and makes it six in a row. Well, that's never been done before by any sex. Just thought you'd want to know.

Women's sports is amazing and historic. I've been a faithful listener for the last 300 or so podcasts, and with any luck, I'll be around for the next 300. Keep up the good work. Good food for thought. Thank you.

Jesse Dollemore
With any luck, I'll be around for the next 300.

Brittany Page
So, of course, there was not a name in the body of this email, and when that happens, we do not mention a name. So thank you very much for that information. We don't watch golf. But you like to play Tiger woods golf. Occasionally on a video game.

Jesse Dollemore
Yeah, it's kind of my. All I'm wired for. I'm not into the shooter. It's too fast paced, and I'm. I like slow video games, not a golfer.

I mean, I can golf. I have golfed, but that's great. Good for her. I've done mini golf. You are quite the mini golfer.

Brittany Page
It counts, right? Okay, we have another email. This one is from Nick. Hi, Jess and Brittany. So, of course it says, hi, Jess and Britney, so I'm going with it.

I don't know if that was intentional. If you're getting a nickname here, I'm just going with it. Wouldn't be the first to call me Jess. Not a problem. So, of course, I'm fine with that.

Matt Walsh wouldn't tell anyone that the NBA had its first game in 1946. The league was so poor that the 1969 game seven championship between the LA Lakers and New York Knicks wasn't even broadcast live. The two largest sports markets in the US in the game was aired on a three hour tape delay because they had zero pull with the networks, because no one really watched regular games to get the game aired live. I have a friend that was the trainer for the Milwaukee Bucks back in the late seventies, and he would tell me stories that he didn't even know if they could get airline tickets. That's how poor the league was.

The WNBA product has greatly improved from its beginnings. The caliber of young women playing at the high school level has improved, giving the collegiate game better players and up the ladder to the pro level. Only a fool would think that from day one, women would have this great league and bring in billions of dollars. NFL players back in the days of Bart star and Johnny Unitas. Unitas.

Unitas used to have regular jobs during the offseason because there was no money in the NFL back in the early sixties, despite college football being popular. Matt Walsh, truly the asshole of the week. Stay safe, my friends. Nick. Yeah, it is a strange thing.

Jesse Dollemore
None of these guys are fucking sports fans. I mean, they look at the NBA or the. The NFL today, and it's in its fully formed, fully actuated form, and they think that's the way it always was. This is absolutely true. In fact, if you watch on HBO, there's a series called winning time.

I think it's about the. The LA Lakers from the. From the eighties, like when Magic Johnson. And even then, even that late into the existence of the NBA with a phenomenal, insane, legendary hall of Fame, one of a kind player like Magic Johnson, it. It wasn't.

That's kind of when it started becoming the NBA like we know it today. But every sports league has growing pains and. And development, and it's not. It doesn't immediately start as a multibillion dollar enterprise. And of course, Matt Walsh and the rest of these idiots, they're not sports fans, so they don't know.

They have no idea. If you were to quiz them on the history or players or even the current game, they'd have no fucking idea. They're rabble rousers. They're provocateurs. They're agents of chaos.

They're not to be relied upon for cogent opinion. Right. So thank you for that email, Nick. Thank you for your support of the show, too. We appreciate you.

Brittany Page
So we have another email here. This is from Justin in New Zealand, and it's long. And I had thought about Justin, you. Know, better than this. I had thought about how to.

How to maybe cut part of it, and maybe I'll do that as I'm reading a particular paragraph and kind of just pull a few main sentences out to kind of make sure I'm getting Justin's point across. But let's just go with it and see what happens, ok? Hi Jesse and Brittany. It's your longtime listener Justin from New Zealand. Here.

I'm writing out of sheer astonishment and having watched yet another White House press conference where legitimate questions from clearly frustrated journalists are dismissed with lies in order to continue to legitimize the genocide in Gaza. The phrase don't believe your lying eyes has never been more apt as journalists look around at one another in amazement that the obfuscations are now so brazen. I must preface everything I am about to write with the fact that I do not get to vote in America, although I do have close relations in New York and I am very worried about worried for their future and for you guys and everybody else still capable of empathy and humanity living there. I listened to Jesse discuss AOC's nuanced answer regarding how to vote in November. I have thoughts as I write this.

University professors and students have been violently arrested for peacefully protesting genocide. And this is where I'm talking. Brittany is coming in to say that I'm going to kind of cut down in this paragraph and just note that Justin is covering some of the protests, the frustration that Congress is continuing to give american taxpayer dollars to fund the war, and that journalists are being shut down, media outlets are parroting talking points, and now I'm going to continue to go back in to what Justin wrote. My point is this. As America stands on the brink of fascism, why would anybody vote for an administration that has been complicit in a genocide?

A genocide is as bad as it gets in any human society. It literally doesn't get any worse. People should not be shamed for not voting for a party that perpetuates a genocide. I know that I have used this word a lot in this email, but it needs repeating. From my part of the world, America looks very much like the country that we are told will be ushered.

Ushered in with a Trump administration. Masked cops abusing the intelligentsia and youth. Political dissent silenced, a media that upholds a status quo that works against the ordinary folk, that brazenly corrupt politicians like to talk so much about as they push through yet more draconian legislation, an out of control, militarized police force, further disenfranchising of marginalized groups, a detached president who seems removed from it all. All of this happened under the Democrats. They have to own this.

I expect Jesse will rant about, this is the most serious election ever and we can't vote for Trump or not vote for Biden because that will be the end of America. I fucking get it. Trump scares the bejesus out of the. Wait, wait. Do you get it, Justin?

Jesse Dollemore
It's easy to say, yeah, I get it. I get it. Do you fucking get it? The United States of America as it is right now and I. Yeah, I guess I will rant.

It will not exist. Democracy, even in its watered down bullshit form that we practice in the United States, will not exist.

And Donald Trump, if you think Biden's bad for the palestinian people and being complicit in the murder, the genocide of tens of thousands of Palestinians, if you think it was bad under Biden, do you think that the spigot of billions of dollars in military aid is going to just be turned off by Trump? Not only will it be bad internationally under Trump, worse under Donald Trump, it'll be worse domestically, too. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Trump scares the bejesus out of any sane person.

Brittany Page
But, and I'll finish here, I couldn't in all conscience put a tick for a party that has enabled what we are witnessing in Gaza. That would be saying that american lives matter more than innocent Palestinians and no human life is more valuable than another. What's the alternative? I simply do not know and I feel helpless here. I can only imagine how scary it feels over there.

I hope we can disagree agreeably. Your friend Justin in New Zealand, look. We love and appreciate Justin. He's been around a long time, is he's written in, and I think he's called in before, over the years, over the years. So don't mistake my passion for abuse or anger or derision.

Jesse Dollemore
For Justin, this is a commonly held opinion, but for me, it's just not fully thought out because, look, it's a binary choice. And if you're, if you. If we're going to attach, and I don't even want to say purity because Joe Biden has fucking dropped the ball on the war in Gaza, has, he's not done a good job. The United States has given a developed nation that can stand at its own 2ft, financially, billions of dollars to create mass graves of dead Palestinians that have. Have had their hands and feet bound and then killed and then tossed into a grave and buried.

All this has been not covered enough by the press and has been allowed to take place by a rogue israeli government under Bibi Netanyahu.

But it's a binary choice. It's between Trump or Biden. And if you're going to be like, well, neither is good. When one is clearly better than the other, one can clearly take notes and be cajoled, pressured, influenced to do the right thing, which is happening way slower than we would like, but it's happening. You think that's gonna fucking happen under Donald Trump?

Come on. Well, and I wanna highlight Justin's line here, that putting a tick for a party that has enabled what we are witnessing in Gaza would be saying that american lives matter more than innocent Palestinians and no human life is more valuable than another. I just want to put that line in context with what Donald Trump said the approach should be to Gaza earlier. They finished them off earlier this month when he said that Israel has to get the war in Gaza over fast, warned that they were losing the PR war, and he urged Israel to, quote, get it over with. Yeah.

While his son in law is talking about beautiful waterfront property. Right. Let's just turn it into a Trump development. So I understand the hesitancy, I guess, to support Biden in the midst of his error here in his approach with the war on Gaza. But when you talk about how people are saying that american lives are more important than Palestine lives, when they're saying they're going to vote for Joe Biden, I think we need to continuously remind ourselves of what Donald Trump's position on Gaza is because the people who try to tell us that there isn't a difference, there are not being honest.

Brittany Page
And I understand that the difference isn't wide enough. Right. We don't have someone who's like, get it over with, and then someone who's really advocating for the Palestinians, and that's terrible. But we have someone saying, get it over with and someone who has been able to be moved by public pressure. I'm talking about Biden now to stop endorsing every single thing that Israel does, both in private and public.

And so I think that difference matters, being able to pressure him and make a change. And this is kind of where we were talking about with the AOC statement from last time. Everyone on the left, these extreme leftists, I would say, are angry at AOC because she recently, like, posed for a picture with Joe Biden after talking about how the war in Gaza is a genocide. And they're like, wow, you're, you're smiling in a photo with the person that is, you know, supporting and funding this, this genocide, endorsing this genocide, and how are we supposed to get anything done if you expect progressives to go to Congress? No, listen, Brittany, and act like Marjorie Taylor Greene does.

Jesse Dollemore
What you don't, what you don't understand is that everything should stop. The world should stop. Progress should stop. Funding should stop, everything should stop. Until this one issue, which is a serious issue, until it's handled.

Abortion policy. No, there's a war in Gaza. People are being genocided. Now, you realize, I'm obviously being facetious about this, but I understand and I agree with the horrific human rights abuses that are taking place at the hands of the israeli government on the Palestinian. I don't disagree.

But we live in a complex world with a lot of issues that don't come with easy answers. And we have to be adults and think about this. Allowing the nuance and allowing the complexity of a multiplicity of different things to take that are taking place at the same time. It's not as easy as. Well.

Nope, don't vote for Biden. We've got to punish the Democrat. So you're going to chop your fucking hand off because you have a hangnail? I just, I don't understand it. And listen, I think there's, there's an ease of criticism when you're 6000 miles away in New Zealand or however far away it is, or even if you're in Canada.

We get people. It's easy. It's kind of an armchair quarterback kind of a thing where you're, you're sitting there criticizing the moves of the quarterback that you're watching on tv while sitting in your house.

It's just way more complex than people are given giving. Because listen, if Joe Biden loses, we can put the blame on him. On him and his policies. Absolutely. But we can also put the blame on the people who were so fucking short sighted that they chose Trump.

Because if you don't vote or you vote or you don't vote for, you vote for Jill fucking Stein or something, you're voting for Donald Trump. And when democracy ends and you are being wildly oppressed with your freedom of speech, taken away with a national abortion ban and living in a fucking draconian country, but then you can blame yourself. Who you gonna blame when America is not the America you grew up in and it's a Trump America worse than it was before, orders of magnitude worse than it was before, you have yourself to blame, just the way I see it. Yeah. So again, I think one of the main things is because a lot of people will hear what you just said and say, well, Biden should be adjusting to win over people's votes.

Brittany Page
And I totally understand that perspective, and. I agree with it, too. And he should definitely be making more rapid changes. And it's unfortunate that he's not. It's outrageous that he's not.

But again, if Donald Trump is elected, we're going to be in a situation where there's no hope of facilitating change, of changing his mind, of putting public pressure on his administration to take a different path. He is going to fill his administration with yes men who are ready and willing to do his bidding on day one and not his bidding. The bidding of the federalist society, the bidding of these conservative organizations that have been waiting for so long to just have a puppet that they can control from behind the scenes. And I know it seems hyperbolic to some people. They talk about it as though it's a conspiracy and it's just not.

And, you know, you've had how long to read the hundreds of pages in the mandate from the project 2025? How many months have you had to read it? And maybe you haven't. And that's just the public plan. There are other elements that they've said, well, we're not going to give away the whole game.

Jesse Dollemore
There's other things we have planned, but that's secret stuff. Yeah. So again, it just, it seems like this is an issue that isn't going away. We continue to hear from people that are frustrated that we even air these complaints from listeners. There are people that are frustrated that we are airing the complaints too often.

Brittany Page
We're going to continue to not make people happy. But I guess our position is, you know, that's true, though we're not for sure. And our position is that we try to do more here than just talk about the news. You know, like, lately I've been telling Jesse I'm very frustrated by these certain media outlets that will dedicate a significant portion of their programming to, like talking about Trump's farts. Yeah.

And I don't, we already know that Trump is repulsive person. Okay. And everybody farts except for me. We already know this. And so we don't need to hear about it.

We don't need, we don't need to hear about that. We need to be hearing, it's not moving the needle. It's not moving the needle. It's wasting everybody's time. It's, no one gives a shit.

And you should be using your platform to talk about important things. And so, you know, we're trying to grapple with these really important issues and these legitimate concerns that voters have about voting for Joe Biden, about his inability to change on the issue of Gaza. And so we're trying to grapple with it. It's not easy. We're going to piss people off, whatever.

But we only have a few more months before the election. And that's really what the important thing is here. If, if you have something to say about this, we would love to know. 657-464-7609 or you can send an email to idoutitollamore.com. Go to a voicemail.

Hi, Jesse. Hi, Brittany. Hi, sweetie. So I kept wanting to call, but then I kept thinking this is off topic. And then I figured I'll just call anyway because I recently got put on Medicaid and everything is so much more affordable.

I don't have to freak out about money anymore. And I was wondering if you guys could tell me why, like private insurance and insurance from your jobs aren't as good as Medicaid. Because I think it's just like stupid that when I had private insurance, all my medications were like 1015, $20. My epipen was like $75. My inhaler was like $50.

All those life saving things I needed, I could barely afford because I was paying like $300 a month for like health insurance. Now I go to my doctors for free. My medications are a dollar. My inhaler was free. My epipen was like $5.

And I don't have to freak out about trying to stay alive anymore. So why can't America just be like, you know, let's keep people healthy and alive? So I was just wondering if you guys could weigh in on that because I was freaking out because I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to be on Medicaid. Everything's going to be so much more expensive. The state I live in decided to put me on Medicaid and now I'm like, oh, my God, Medicaid is so awesome.

Why isn't every other insurance like this? So, yeah, I know it's kind of off topic for everything you guys have been talking about recently, but I just thought maybe you guys could play in and, yeah, anyway, I love you guys. You're all the best part. Okay, bye. So actually, if it's perfectly into what we're talking about, it fits perfectly because people's lives are on the line and Democrats are not willing right now to put a Medicare for all solution forward.

Jesse Dollemore
So don't vote for Joe Biden. Let's elect Donald Trump, who for sure will be much better on the issue of health care than Joe Biden and the Democrats. Right? I mean, let's, let's compile a list of issues where literally people's lives are on the line and then decide to vote for Donald fucking Trump, because the Democrats have been feckless and ineffectual up to this point. Right?

I hope everybody understands the thick, pasty sarcasm that I'm laying down, because there are a host of other issues that we can apply the same logic and reasoning that people are using about Gaza, and it would also fuck us in the long run, in the medium term. Yeah, I just saw a thank you. For the call and awesome for you. That's amazing, for sure. I just saw a ProPublica article.

Brittany Page
It was just published today. I think the title. A doctor at Cigna said her bosses pressured her to review patients cases too quickly. Cigna threatened to fire her. And the point was that she's revealing that the approach in order to generating profits for Cigna Health Insurance company was to deny, deny, deny, deny claims, deny claims.

Not even take time to investigate whether or not people needed the care that that was being requested, just to deny it. And so, yeah, I mean, I was on Medicaid growing up and so was I. I think that it's so important, obviously, it's such a crucial, important program that needs to be robustly supported and funded, and it helps so many people. And I was surprised that the caller kind of talked about fears about going on Medicaid and that it was going to make things more expensive. And I don't know if that's because.

Jesse Dollemore
Of, like, right wing propaganda. Yeah. That says that Medicaid is a bad program or that it's damaging when. No, it represents the way that healthcare should be, which is affordable and attainable and something that doesn't stress you out and make your life more difficult. You should be able to access your life saving medications at a reasonable cost.

Attaching a profit model to saving people's lives is, is a disgusting, amoral practice. It is. It is just off the charts radical. And we need a democratic party that will stand behind Medicaid for all, Medicare for all. Yes.

Two days ago, a week ago, ten years ago, and get it fucking done. There's also a lot of scare tactics surrounding the care that you get. Rationing care, they say. Well, and also criticism of dentists that accept Medicaid. You're not going to get a certain standard of care.

Brittany Page
And I know it's just anecdotal, but I have had multiple dentists talk about the work that they didn't know that they were my Medicaid dentists, but that my Medicaid dentist did in my mouth. Because, shocker, I used to swish my teeth with coke and wake up in the middle of the night and melt butter and brown sugar together and call it my delicious caramel animal treat and just sit there and eat it and not brush my teeth. So all my teeth were rotted out, and I had a ton of dental work done. And I will have dentists talk about how it really good work. And I'll say, yeah, I was a Medicaid dentist when I was a poor kid.

Jesse Dollemore
Yeah. I also had my mouth filled with fillings. Swishing coke. No, no, just welfare kid, you know? And I, like, I've thought about having a dentist go, like, I've had several dentists say, you know, we can change all those black fillings out for, like, just enamel colored.

And I used to be, like, embarrassed about it. Like, yeah, maybe I want to get that done, and I don't think I ever want to get it done because it's a reminder that I was. We were desperately poor, and it's like a badge of honor, and I'm not going to get it changed out. I used to have. There's some pictures where I, like, I'm laughing, and you can see the black.

And I would be embarrassed to post those, or I wouldn't. I've chose not to in the past, chosen not to post them, and I'm not gonna do that anymore. I'm. I'm proud of that. That's cool.

And also, the work holds up. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. And, I mean, there may come a time where you need to replace it.

Brittany Page
Right. If it gets whatever. Cause I think I've had to replace one. Although I don't know if the dentist was lying to me. Cause he was lying to me a lot about different things.

Jesse Dollemore
Shifty fucking dentist. They love to be liars. So. So thank you for that call. We want to briefly take a moment to thank our Patreon supporters, because we could not do this show and this work without the support of our Patreon supporters.

Brittany Page
So we want to give a shout out to our new Patreon supporters. Tina P. Tina P. Shirley W. Shirley W.

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Jesse Dollemore
Dilemmocracy facing down pessimistic politics with realistic optimism.

Brittany Page
So there were several massive cases before the Supreme Court last week, and you might be thinking, oh, great, and you guys are going to talk about the cases from last week. But, you know, maybe you didn't listen to the oral arguments because you don't have time, you know, who did? Brittany Page. Or maybe you didn't, you know, have time to worry about what happened at the Supreme Court. But these arguments were so important, so many important cases.

So I chose, and this was tough to do because each of these oral arguments, it's like over an hour and a half. But I chose kind of stand out moments to me that I think illustrate for each of the cases we're going to talk about a case about homelessness, a case about abortion, and of course, the presidential immunity. I chose different clips that I think highlight the most important moments. And I was at the Supreme Court on Monday for the homelessness case. It was nice to see a lot of people that were on the ground supporting, advocating.

There were no counter protesters, which was cool. But the case that is surrounding homelessness is about it's Grants pass, which is a city in Oregon, Grants Pass v. Johnson. And in this case, in Grants Pass, Oregon, they have enacted a lot of restrictions that essentially ban the act of being homeless. That's what it amounts to.

And that's kind of what the plaintiffs are arguing in the case because you. Can'T really just come out and say it's illegal to be homeless. But if you start attacking under color of law certain elements that make it easy, that create comfort in your life when you're unhoused, like having a pillow and a blanket, right? That's what they're doing. They're criminalizing having a pillow and a blanket with you when you sleep outdoors.

Jesse Dollemore
Like, just fucking fascist shit. Of course. And so they, the plaintiffs argue that this. The plaintiffs, by the way, are unhoused residents in Grants Pass, Oregon. And so the argument there is that these ordinances are basically just a ban on being homeless, which allows the police to harass and give citations and arrest, further criminalizing homelessness and making it more difficult for people to get out of their situation.

Brittany Page
So there was one moment in particular where Justice Sonia Sotomayor was questioning the attorney from Grants Pass, Oregon, and she asked this question that I was just so happy to have on the record at the supreme court. Your intent was to remove, stated by your mayor? Intent is to remove every homeless person and give them no public space to sit down with a blanket or lay down with a blanket and fall asleep. That's not the intent of the law. And I would like to express that.

Ketanji Brown Jackson
Point because the other side. Why don't you answer the basic question? So it's not about fires, it's not about tense. It's about not being a time and place restriction, about eliminating all choices. So we think that it is harmful.

For people to be living in public spaces, on streets and in parks, whatever. Bedding materials, when humans are living in those conditions. We think that that's not compassionate and that. Oh, it's not. But neither is.

Sonia Sotomayor
Is providing neither them with nothing to alleviate that situation. It. This is a difficult policy question, Justice Sotomayor. Where do we put them? If every city, every village, every town lacks compassion and passes a law identical to this, where are they supposed to sleep?

Are they supposed to kill themselves not sleeping? So this is a necessity defense. As I mentioned, under Oregon law is available. States are able to address these concerns. This is a complicated policy question.

Ketanji Brown Jackson
We believe that the 8th amendment analysis, to go back to it focuses on the low level. So complicated about letting someone somewhere sleep with a blanket in the outside if they have nowhere to sleep, against defecation, the laws against keeping things unsanitary around yourself, those have all been upheld. The only thing this injunction does is say you can't stop someone from sleeping in a public place without a blanket. Please note that that lawyer was asked a direct question from a United States Supreme Court justice and did not answer it. Where do they go?

Jesse Dollemore
If every community across the country enacts this policy that you have, just like we'll just use here in DC, they clear an encampment of people who group together and live in a public place, and then they move them. So where are they to go if they can't be there? Any other place they go will be public. The question of, are they just supposed to kill themselves? Is apt to.

And it's very notable that she avoided. The answer entirely and was quiet, kind of stunned briefly. And I love that that question is on the record because I have asked myself that. I think a lot of people that care about this issue have asked themselves that because we continuously see in the news these attacks on people who are homeless, moving the encampments, sending the problem down the road, people, public officials, admitting that they're trying to make it uncomfortable. So uncomfortable that people don't spend their time on sidewalks or in public places, which you have to eventually ask, where does that end?

Brittany Page
Are you trying to get them to kill themselves? Because what. What's the point here? Where are they supposed to go? It is, look, I will admit, are the, do the parks look better cosmetically when there's no encampments, no tents, no gathering of individuals?

Jesse Dollemore
Yeah, of course. Of course they do. Would I rather have all our green spaces just be parks and fla la la la? It's great. Of course I would.

Who wouldn't? That would mean homelessness was solved, right? But homelessness isn't fucking solved. And communities across the country don't want to do anything to actually solve it. They don't want to roll up their sleeves and do the fucking hard work.

All they want to do is throw away people's meager belongings and criminalize poverty. That's what's happening. Well, and that's the thing. She's like, this is a difficult policy question. This is a complicated policy question.

Brittany Page
It's only a difficult policy question because there is a lack of political will in this country to actually help people that are homeless. And it's because homeless people largely, I would guess, aren't a real active voting base that are going to sway an election so they don't have electoral power in that way. I would also argue that part of it is a successful propaganda campaign that has somehow created a wedge between people that are housed and people who are unhoused, that has convinced people who are housed that they are somehow different than the people who are unhoused, rather than the only difference between them being their housing status, because anything can happen. Right. And I think those of us who have had enough tragedy in our lives can speak to this.

And it's a bummer that, you know, tragedy is the thing that grants people the compassion to see this in a different way. But, you know, hopefully people can, as the saying goes, find their compassion before their tragedy. Is that it? I don't, did I say find their. Empathy before their tragedy?

Jesse Dollemore
You know, it also doesn't help that you've got outlets that are self described progressive outlets, like the young Turks just parroting right wing fascist talking points about these people. They just shouldn't be on the streets. Well, what do we do with them? Well, they shouldn't be on the streets. That's not a solution.

Brittany Page
Yeah. So in the next case, this one happened on Wednesday. This involves the Idaho abortion ban. So, so what's at stake here is there's a law that you're gonna hear referenced EMtALa, and that stands for emergency medical treatment and Labor act. And basically what this is, is a requirement that if a hospital is getting Medicare dollars, so basically every private hospital in the country, then they are required to provide stabilizing care in emergency situations.

And this was originally created to protect poor people that didn't have money who would present for an emergency situation in order for them to get care. And so basically, a federal district court said that Emtala and Idaho's abortion ban are in conflict because if a pregnant person presents to an emergency facility and they need an abortion as their form of stabilizing emergency care, like life saving. Care, we're not even talking about just random, run of the mill abortion. We're talking about the most serious moments, right? Yeah.

And so if abortion is the emergency stabilizing care that is necessary in that case, and that patient is consenting to getting that care, that federal law would require those doctors to provide that abortion. But the Idaho ban, in essence, according to this federal district court, criminalizes what the federal law requires. So it's criminalizing Emtala. So the whole, the whole case before the Supreme Court is about this conduct. And the Supreme Court in January actually disagreed with the federal district court's ruling.

So they defended Idaho. And that's what's concerning about this case is it seems like they are going to be defending Idaho even at the end of these arguments. But there were a few standout moments in this case, too. And we're going to be playing a moment from, you're going to hear from just Joshua in Turner. He's Idaho's deputy solicitor general.

And this is going to be specific moment where he's actually going back and forth with Justice Elena Kagan. Every conceivable medical treatment, it definitely didn't. Address the standards of care. It did leave that to the medical community. It said, you know, Congress was not going to address every treatment for every condition, but it said, you do what is needed to assure non deterioration.

Elena Kagan
So I guess the question here is, do you concede that with respect to certain medical conditions, an abortion is the standard of care? No, because the standard of care under, well, I should say in Idaho there is a life saving exception for certain abortions, and that is the standard of care. And the standard of care is necessarily set and determined by state. I think you have to concede that with respect to certain medical conditions, abortion is the standard of care because your own statute, as interpreted by your own courts, acknowledges that when a condition gets bad enough such that the woman's life is in peril, then the doctors are supposed to give abortions. And the reason that that's true is that with respect to certain rare but extremely obviously important conditions and circumstances, abortion is the accepted medical standard of care.

Isn't that right? Yes. And that was my point, that there is a life saving exception under Eidolon. Now the question here is, now the question is, is it also the accepted standard of care when rather than the woman's life being in peril, the woman's health is in peril? So let's take, you know, all of these cases are rare, but within these rare cases, there's a significant number where the woman is, her life is not in peril, but she's going to lose her reproductive organs.

She's going to lose the ability to have children in the future unless an abortion takes place. Now, that's the category of cases in which am tales says, my gosh, of course, the abortion is necessary to assure that no material deterioration occurs. And yet Idaho says, sorry, no abortion here. And the result is that these patients are now helicoptered out of state. Your honor, the hypothetical you raise is a very difficult situation.

Joshua K. Turner
And these situations, I mean, nobody is arguing that they, they don't raise tough medical questions that implicate deeply theological and moral questions. And Idaho, like 22 other states and even Congress and Emtala, recognizes that there are two patients to consider in those circumstances. And the two patient scenario is tough when you have these competing interests. You know, that would be a good response if federal law did not take a position on what you characterize as a tough question. But federal law does take a position on that question.

Elena Kagan
It says that you don't have to wait until the person is on the verge of death if the woman is going to lose her reproductive organs. That's enough to trigger this duty on the part of the hospital to stabilize the patient and the way to stabilize patients in these circumstances. All doctors agree. So Joshua K. Turner there had a really rough go of it in front of the Supreme Court.

Brittany Page
He was really struggling. And I think that that exchange perfectly illustrates some of those struggles. But it also illustrates just how far we have fallen, that without a doubt, we have a state that is arguing before the Supreme Court to defend their inaction. When someone presents to receive emergency care and they're negotiating how close to death or how serious a health condition is and how much long lasting damage that health condition may have before a doctor can reach the conclusion, then an abortion would be necessary. And you also heard Justice Kagan there referencing that patients have had to be airlifted out of the state of Idaho.

And this comes from a recent report that, that said in all of 2023, one, one patient had been airlifted out of state for pregnancy complications since January, when the Supreme Court decided to say that this federal law supersedes the abortion ban in Idaho. Since that decision in January 6, just in the past four months, six patients have had to be airlifted out of Idaho. And to the point where Idaho doctors are advising some of their patients to say, you may want to consider buying a membership for life flights so that you're not financially ruined, which is a. Thing you might not be familiar with across the country. But in Idaho, a lot of people live in remote areas.

Jesse Dollemore
And life flight is something that you can tack onto your insurance or buy separately, that if you're out in the middle of the woods or wherever you live, far away from a hospital, it covers the exorbitant cost of life, flighting you to the nearest medical facility where they can handle your emergency. Right. So think of that. And I know people are like, well, it was just one person last year, and it's only been six in four months. That's not very many people.

Brittany Page
But think of how that number will multiply given that doctors are not able to do their jobs when people present for care at the emergency room. Yeah. Now this wasn't the only notable moment, and I have to, of course, play a segment from one of my heroes, and that is the solicitor general of the United States, Elizabeth Prelogger, and also. From Idaho, by the way. I know I didn't know that until.

You said, yeah, I learned that this time, too. She went to Boise High. Yeah. And so she had a rough go of it because Justice Alito was really leaning into talking about the effects on the unborn child. That was like a priority for him to really talk about how the unborn child would be affected by all of.

Jesse Dollemore
This with the domestic supply of babies. Yeah. In the conflict between the federal law that says, no, you need to provide stabilizing care if someone presents for an emergency. And Idaho saying, actually, we're gonna have this draconian abortion ban, he wants to know, well, where's the protection for the unborn child? Well, let's walk through the provisions of the statute that are relevant to this issue regarding the status and the potential interests of an unborn child.

Joshua K. Turner
Under b one, if a woman goes to hospital with an emergency medical condition, that's the phrase, the hospital must either stabilize the condition or under some circumstances, transfer the woman to another facility. So we have this phrase emergency medical condition in that provision. And then under e one, the term emergency emergency medical condition is defined to include a condition that places the health of the woman's unborn child in serious jeopardy. So in that situation, the hospital must stabilize the threat to the unborn child. And it seems that the plain meaning is that the hospital must try to eliminate any immediate threat to the child.

But performing an abortion is antithetical to that duty. You go so far as to say that the statute is clear in your favor. I don't know how you can say that in light of those provisions that I've just read to you. The statute did nothing to displace the woman herself as an individual with an emergency medical condition. When her life is in danger, when her health is in danger, that stabilization obligation equally runs to her and makes clear that the hospital has to give her necessary stabilizing treatment.

Elizabeth Prelogar
And in many of the cases you're thinking about, there is no possible way to stabilize the unborn child because the fetus is sufficiently before viability that it's inevitable that the pregnancy is going to be lost. But Idaho would deny women treatment in that circumstance, even though it's senseless. Doesn't what I've read to you show that the statute imposes on the hospital a duty to the woman? Certainly, and also a duty to the child. And it doesn't tell the hospital how it is to adjudicate conflicts between those interests.

Joshua K. Turner
And it leaves that to state law. Now, maybe a lot. Most of your argument today has been dedicated to the proposition that the Idaho law is a bad law, and that may well be the case. But what you're asking us to do is to construe this statute that was enacted back during the Reagan administration. Administration and signed by President Reagan to mean that there's an obligation under certain circumstances to perform an abortion, even if doing that is a violation of state law.

Elizabeth Prelogar
If Congress had wanted to displace protections for pregnant women who are in danger of losing their own lives or their health, then it could have redefined the statute so that the fetus itself is an individual with an emergency medical condition. But that's not how Congress structured this. Instead, it put the protection in to expand protection for the pregnant woman. The duties still run to her. And in a situation where her own life and health is gravely endangered, then in that situation, EMtala is clear.

It says the hospital has to offer her stabilizing treatment. She doesn't have to accept it. These are tragic circumstances, and many women want to do whatever they can to save that pregnancy, but the statute protects her and gives her that choice. So again, inherent in a lot of the arguments that you're hearing from the solicitor general of the United States there, Elizabeth Prelogger, is that the life saving care that he's so concerned about for an unborn child, as he calls it? He's saying it.

Jesse Dollemore
Not even unborn, just child. He's saying. Right, that. She's saying that oftentimes we're talking about cases that are so early in the pregnancy term that it's not as though it's like a separate issue. You can't just work on.

Brittany Page
You can't prioritize the child. You have to prioritize the, the woman, the body that is carrying the, quote unquote, as he calls it, child speaker one. Well, listen, what about the child? Let's not talk about the incubator. Let's talk about the child.

Yeah. And it's so frustrating listening to Alito. He's, you know, if you listen to. He'S a radical motherfucker. He, if you listen to enough of these cases, I think he rapidly becomes the worst one.

And that may be surprising for people to hear. But I think he may be the worst person on the court. He is so radical. He is so aggressive and hateful, and it's very difficult to listen to him. But you know what's not difficult to listen to is the solicitor general laughing at him.

And it was very light. It was very light. I almost wonder if people heard it and I wonder how it was received in the room. But there was a moment where she laughed, and then she also just ends this. And it's a brief clip.

It's a brief clip, but she's going to end it on just this beautiful mic drop. Say aha. In the dictionary, act individual is defined to exclude an unborn child or a fetus. That's the only way you can try to get out of what I've just outlined. And isn't it true that under the dictionary, that dictionary act definitions apply only if they are not inconsistent with the statutory text?

Joshua K. Turner
And when you have a text that certainly you wouldn't dispute the fact that the hospital has a duty to the unborn child where the woman wants to, wants to have the pregnancy go to term, it indisputably protects the interests of the unborn child. So it's inconsistent with the definition in the dictionary act? No, not at all. The duty runs to the individual with the emergency medical condition. The statute makes clear that's the pregnant woman.

Elizabeth Prelogar
And of course, Congress wanted to be able to protect her in situations where she's suffering some kind of emergency and her own health isn't at risk. But the fetus might die. That that includes common things like a prolapse of the umbilical cord into the cervix where the fetus is in grave distress, but the woman is not at all affected. Hospitals otherwise wouldn't have an obligation to treat her. And Congress wanted to fix that.

But to suggest that in doing so, Congress suggested that the woman herself isn't an individual, that she doesn't deserve stabilization. I think that that is an erroneous reading of this. Nobody's suggesting that the woman is not an individual when she doesn't, she doesn't deserve stabilization. Well, the premise of the question would be that the state of Idaho can declare that she cannot get to the stabilizing treatment even if she's about to die. That is their theory of this case and this statute, and it's wrong.

Brittany Page
Justice Sotomayor, no one's suggesting that. No one except for me right now, but no one is suggesting that. Let me also, let me say this about her prelogger. What a boss, because she's in many, many, many of these cases brought by the United States or defended by the United States. She's the solicitor general.

Jesse Dollemore
She's the one representing the government of the United States. And it's a multiplicity of different cases that she has to be intricately and intimately familiar with to be able to argue at a granular level with all kinds of questions being thrown at her and devised by adversarial justices. She's unfucking flappable. It's crazy. She's so impressive that I can't even begin to tell you.

Brittany Page
Every time I hear that she's gonna be up, I'm so excited. And it's just. I'm just listening and so excited. And as an aside, when I was in high school taking government, I remember, and maybe I shouldn't admit this. Cause I could get my high school diploma revoked or something.

Hopefully not. Hopefully, there's a statute of limitations. Heisman trophy. It's a high school diploma. So I cheated in my government class on my test.

And I remember that I had to memorize who the supreme court justices were, and based on their photos, write their name. And rather than just taking the 5 seconds that this would have taken.

Jesse Dollemore
You spent an hour devising a plan to avoid the five minutes of work. Correct. And I gave them nicknames that would help me remember. Oh, yeah. What they looked like so that I could accurately put the name down.

Brittany Page
And if you would have told me in high school that I would, you know, become an adult who is listening to the Supreme Court arguments, who voluntarily can tell you which one is talking at any time. Yeah. Without even looking at them. You're good at, like, I. Between Kagan and Sotomayor, their voices are similar, and you're like, no, no, no.

Jesse Dollemore
And you described it. You nailed it. You know, their voices very well, and. Who can sometimes predict, like, if I haven't heard from one of them, I'm like, where is this one coming in? And they're probably going to ask about this.

Brittany Page
You know, if you would have told me that, it would have blown my mind, because I would be like, wait, what am I going to do with this cheat sheet. Yeah. So Thursday was the presidential immunity case. Which was absolutely maddening and bananas. Some of the arguments that are being made by the ex president's lawyers before the Supreme Court of the United States.

Joshua K. Turner
States. Yeah, it was so disturbing. So, of course, the question here is whether presidents have some level of protection from criminal charges for certain actions that they take while in office. And this is based on Donald Trump's claim that he is immune from prosecution for trying to intervene and undo his 2020 election loss. And the thing that was notable here that you're going to hear this is going to be between Justice Jackson, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and Donald Trump's attorney.

Brittany Page
And it's just hard to listen to this and think that this case could go any other way. But I want you to prepare yourself for it to maybe not go the way that you want. And that's even more remarkable after you hear this exchange. Why is it, as a matter of theory, and I'm hoping you can sort of zoom way out here, that the president would not be required to follow the law when he is performing his official acts? Everyone else?

Ketanji Brown Jackson
Everyone else. There are lots of folks who have very high powered jobs who make a lot of consequential decisions, and they do so against the backdrop of potential criminal prosecution if they should break the law in that capacity. And we understand, and we know, as a matter of fact, that the president, United States, has the best lawyers in the world. When he is making a decision, he can consult with pretty much anybody as to whether or not this thing is criminal or not. So why would we have a situation in which we would say that the president should be making official acts without any responsibility for following the law?

I respectfully disagree with that characterization. The president absolutely does have responsibility. He absolutely is required to follow the law in all his official acts. But the remedy for that is the question, could he be subject to personal vulnerability, sent to prison for making a bad decision after he leaves office? But other people who have consequential jobs and who are required to follow the law make those determinations against the backdrop of that same kind of risk.

Ketanji Brown Jackson
So what is it about the president? I mean, I've heard you say it's because the president has to be able to act boldly. Do you know, make kind of consequential decisions? I mean, sure, but again, there are lots of people who have to make life and death kinds of decisions, and yet they still have to follow the law. And if they don't, they could be sent to prison, et cetera, et cetera.

Brittany Page
So I say two things in response. That's from Fitzgerald. That's the very sort of inference or reasoning that this court rejected in Fitzgerald. No, but let me just. Fitzgerald was a civil situation in which the president actually was in a different position than other people because of the nature of his job, the high profile nature, and the fact that he touches so many different things.

Ketanji Brown Jackson
When you're talking about private civil liability, you know, anybody on the street can sue him. We could see that the president was sort of different than the ordinary person when you say, should he be immune from civil liability from anybody who wants to sue him? But when we're talking about criminal liability, I don't understand how the president stands in any different position with respect to the need to follow the law as he is doing his job than anyone else. He is required to follow the law. And what if it's not?

But he's not. If there's no threat of criminal prosecution, what prevents the president from just doing whatever he wants? All the structural checks that are identified in Fitzgerald and a whole series of his court's cases that go back to Martin against Mott, for example, impeachment, oversight by Congress, public oversight, there's a long series that Fitzgerald directly addresses this in the civil context. And we think that actually portion. I'm not sure that that's much of a backstop.

And what I'm, I guess, more worried about, you seem to be worried about the president being chilled. I think that we would have a really significant opposite problem if the president wasn't chilled, if someone with those kinds of powers, the most powerful person in the world with the greatest amount of authority, could go into office knowing that there would be no potential penalty for committing crimes. I'm trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the Oval Office into, you know, the seat of criminal activity in this country. I don't think there's any allegation of that in this case. What George Washington said is, what Benjamin Franklin said is, we view the prosecution of a chief executive as something that everybody cried out against as unconstitutional.

And what George Washington said is, we're worried about factional strife, which will. No, I'm also. Let me put this worry on the table. If the potential for criminal liability is taken off the table, wouldn't there be a significant risk that future presidents would be emboldened to commit crimes with abandon while they're in office? It's right now, the fact that we're having this debate because OLC has said that presidents might be prosecuted.

Ketanji Brown Jackson
Presidents from the beginning of time have understood that that's a possibility. That might be what has kept this office from turning into the kind of crime center that I'm envisioning. But once we say, no criminal liability, Mister President, you can do whatever you want. I'm worried that we would have a worse problem than the problem of the president feeling constrained to follow the law while he's in office. I respectfully disagree with that, because we don't care.

Brittany Page
That's why I cut it there. I'm like, we don't care. We don't care because that man literally argued that Donald Trump has the power as president of the United States, free from prosecution, to dispatch military units, to assassinate someone, an opponent, a political opponent that he deemed corrupt, and that would be in the course of official duties of the president of the United States. Which begs the question, well, if Donald Trump believes that to be true, is he not trembling in his boots that Joe Biden is getting ready to assassinate him? It's just fucking absurd.

Right? And I think his argument is that unless the president is impeached, then they, then he cannot be, he cannot be charged. Yeah. He cannot be held criminally liable or whatever the action might be. You have Mitch McConnell saying, well, no, we're not going to, we're not going to convict Donald Trump because this should be to the courts.

Jesse Dollemore
And the courts are saying, oh, well, let's leave this to the legislature. It's just passing the fucking buck. Right? And I like that Justice Jackson brought in the idea that a lot of people are held to really high standards in their jobs and have serious issues that they're dealing with all the time. And I wonder if she was thinking of her husband, who is a gastrointestinal, gastrointestinal surgeon at Medstar Georgetown University Hospital.

Brittany Page
And surgeons are people that have other people's lives in their hands that are hold to very healthy, to very high standards. They have codes of ethics and laws that they need to follow and standards that they need to follow. And they can't just be immune from any type of criminal prosecution because their job is very serious and they need to have the freedom to take whatever action that they need to take to save someone's life. No. Regardless of what job you're in, you need to follow laws.

Jesse Dollemore
Well, also, they're acting like if this doesn't get ruled in our, in our favor, it's just going to be bedlam and mayhem for the president of the United States. When we've had 40, we've had 45 different men be president of the United States of America. Grover Cleveland had non consecutive terms, so he doesn't count as two people. So we've had 45 individuals be president. And it's never been a problem up until Donald Trump, who was in office committing crime.

Brittany Page
Right. Even Nixon pales in comparison in corruption and criminality related. If compared to Donald Trump. It's just not a problem unless you're a criminal. That's when the problem raises its head.

Right. Anyway, that is it. We're going to leave you there. We love you guys. We appreciate you.

Jesse Dollemore
Please consider supporting the show on Patreon. Go to patreon.com. I doubt it. Podcast call. Leave us a voicemail, interact with the show.

We would love that. 657-464-7609 and email idoutitollamore.com we love and appreciate you. We'll see you next time. Until then, for Brittany Page, I'm Jesse Dolomore, and this has been, I doubt.

#913 - "Take 6!, Listener Feedback, and a Wild Week at SCOTUS!"

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