The Free Press Live: Biden Drops Out

This episode delves into the unexpected political announcement of President Joe Biden's withdrawal from the presidential race, endorsing Kamala Harris, influenced by various pressures and reactions within the Democratic Party.

1. Biden's decision to drop out was influenced heavily by media, donor, and intra-party pressures.
2. The episode highlights a perceived manipulation of democratic processes by party elites.
3. The discussion contrasts the Democratic Party's handling of Biden with the Republican Party's dynamics around Trump.
4. Critiques the media's role in shaping political narratives and possibly misleading the public.
5. Discusses the potential implications of Kamala Harris's candidacy on the future direction of the Democratic Party.

1. Introduction and Breaking News

Michael Moynihan opens the episode with the breaking news of Biden's withdrawal and endorsement of Harris, setting the stage for an in-depth discussion. Michael Moynihan: "President Joe Biden decided that he was going to drop out of the race and endorse Kamala Harris."

2. Panel Discussion on Democratic Processes

The panel discusses the perceived lack of a genuine democratic process in the Democratic primaries, describing it as a "soft coup" by party elites. Bhatia Ungar Sargon: "It was a soft coup. The elites have won."

3. Media Influence and Public Perception

Discussion on how the media's portrayal of Biden and the election process may have influenced public perception and the democratic process. Walter Kern: "The drama is as fake as a reality TV show."

4. Contrast with Republican Party

The panel contrasts the Democratic Party's methods with the Republican side, where Trump's defiance of elite control is noted. Dean Phillips: "On the right, you have Trump defying the elites completely."

5. Closing Remarks and Future Implications

The episode concludes with thoughts on the future implications of Harris's candidacy and the direction of the Democratic Party. Michael Moynihan: "What happens now when Kamala Harris looks like she's going to walk into this candidacy?"

1. Scrutinize media sources critically to understand potential biases and manipulations in political coverage.
2. Engage in political discussions and debates to foster a more informed electorate.
3. Advocate for transparency and fairness in political processes within party structures.
4. Support candidates who resist undue influence from elites and represent genuine democratic values.
5. Encourage voter participation in primaries to ensure broader representation and counteract elite manipulation.

Tonight, President Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 race and endorsed Kamala Harris to be the Democratic nominee. After weeks of speculation, criticism of his candidacy, concern about his health, and withdrawal of donors, President Biden finally said: “It has been the greatest honor of my life to serve as your President. And while it has been my intention to seek reelection, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as President for the remainder of my term.”

What comes next? With the Democratic National Convention less than a month away, Michael Moynihan went live on X with Free Press contributors Walter Kirn, Batya Ungar-Sargon, Eli Lake, and Olivia Reingold, as well Minnesota congressman Dean Phillips (who challenged Joe Biden during the primaries), to discuss this historic turn and how it will impact the election.

People

Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, Dean Phillips, Bhatia Ungar Sargon, Walter Kern

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Bhatia Ungar Sargon, Walter Kern, Dean Phillips

Content Warnings:

None

Michael Moynihan
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I'm Michael Moynihan for the Free Press, coming to you live with some breaking news that presumably you've already heard, but we need to discuss today, President Joe Biden decided that he was going to drop out of the race and endorse Kamala Harris. This is after quite a bit of media pressure, quite a bit of donor pressure, and quite a bit of pressure from people in the party. Look, this has been a long time coming. It's not a surprise to me. Those of us who have been gas lit, I suppose, is the past tense there for a very long time, that this man was not capable of being the nominee. And look, voters said the same thing. We have to go back to 2022, when there was a poll that over 60%, I think it was 65% of voters said in June or July of 2022 that Joe Biden should not be the democratic nominee. And those. We're Democrats. So been a lot of craziness today in the past couple hours. If you've turned on cable news, and I feel bad if you have, you've seen people weeping, crying, claiming Joe Biden was the greatest president in anyone's lifetime. It's been rather a marvel to watch. But we're here to break it down and to join us. You know, what do you expect? An all star cast as usual. Our friend Bhatia Ungar Sargon, who's the deputy opinion editor at Newsweek and the author of second class how the elites betrayed America's Working Men and women, Walter Kern, who is the co host of America this week podcast it's a must listen, which he does with Matt Taibbi. And joining us a little bit later, Eli Lake, free press columnist, friend of this broadcast all around brilliant guy. And the canary in the coal mine referred to himself as the Paul Revere today, Minnesota representative Dean Phillips. But they're coming. Until then, Batya ngar Sargan, I love to say it to you because you said at the Free press that it was a soft coup. The Gulpistas have won. Batya, what do you think? How do you respond?

Batya Ungar-Sargon
Indeed, indeed, they have won. The combination of Hollywood celebrities, you know, democratic literati, and then just the money bags, the entire donor class showing up and shamelessly admitting to the american people that they believe that they should get to pick the democratic nominee eventually proved too much for Joe Biden to fight against. And honestly, the thing that I just keep thinking is, how are all of these people so willing to admit that they think that a smoke filled black back room of billionaires should get to decide who gets elected. I mean, we all knew at some level that there was some aspect of this, like, looking at the way that the Democratic Party kind of put the kibosh on any kind of honest primary. Like, told you a lot, right? But to see the actual Hollywood starlets and the actual billionaires and the actual Obama cronies come out and be like, no, we are willing to admit to the democratic don't voter base that we are the ones who get to pick their nominee, not them. There is something to me that is really staggering about that, and I think that is really the thing that is most noteworthy about this beyond, of course, just the drama of the moment.

Michael Moynihan
Walter, what do you make of that? Batya says an unfair process, but, you know, to add to Batya's, I mean, we're gonna have Dean Phillips on. There wasn't really a primary to speak of. I mean, they were quite frank about, you know, Bobby Kennedy was not allowed. They were not going to have debates. There was not going to be an open primary process. So not very surprising to me that this happened in the way that it did. What do you make of it, Walter?

Walter Kern
The drama is as fake as a reality tv show. If you go back and you see that there was no room for a democratic process at any point in the Joe Biden nomination, they went and had an early debate, which I would imagine they could have anticipated would not go well for a person in his shape. This has been kind of on the edge of your seat, cliffhanger style script, but the script was written long ago. I'm absolutely convinced the idea that this is all happening as we speak in some kind of rushed way, that the multi trillion dollar office of the United States presidency is just hanging on some sort of strange last minute negotiations with guy who, you know, we're still not sure is part of the process, really. We haven't seen. We saw kind of a reproduction of a letter on social media. That's all we've had so far. We don't know really how full throated his endorsement of Kamala is. It came out separately from his original letter. For us to care, really, how this melodrama goes is to care about the next Super bowl. We have no role in it. None whatsoever. Democratic voters have had no role in it, however. So I think it's masochistic to care about something that's decided for you.

Michael Moynihan
Yeah, I mean, Batya, this is obviously was a potemkin primary, and I mentioned your new book. But let's go back to your first book, bad news. I mean, if you think that people didn't trust the media a year ago, good Lord. I mean, people within Biden's orbit saying, Mark Halperin, who literally said last week, on Thursday, we had him on our livestream and he said, it's going to happen. It's going to happen this weekend. It's going to happen Sunday. And all these people with Biden world saying, oh, we trust Mark Halpern. Now, didn't we cancel him? And of course, he was absolutely right. The gaslighting has been something that has made my head spin. And I'm very, very used to this stuff. We have a clip here because this is, you know, this has been going on for a long time. Joe Biden himself said, no way I am going. It's God himself has to come down and strike me dead. So let's play this clip of Joe Biden. You're behind now in the popular vote. I don't buy that.

Dean Phillips
Is it worth the risk?

Michael Moynihan
I don't think anybody's more qualified to be president or win this race than me. If you can be convinced that you cannot defeat Donald Trump, will you stand down? What's offensive? Unless the Lord Almighty comes out and tells me that I might do that if the Lord Almighty comes down.

Walter Kern
So what is this? We still don't know, Mike. Are they because he's not fit to run or because they just saw some bad polls?

Michael Moynihan
I mean, look, the polls were, I mean, the whole point of this is you wanna win, right? I mean, but the thing to me, though, and Walter, to that point, and I wanna ask you the same question, Batjo, is that Kamala Harris is polling better, particularly in swing states and Pennsylvania, et cetera, but not that much. I mean, these races are decided by a pretty small margin, so it's better. But, you know, if they want to win, it seems that, you know, this coronation, and yes, Barack Obama came out with a statement and did not endorse Kamala Harris. But it is happening now that Domino's is trying to fall. I've seen this in the past couple hours. The number of people, Jared Polis was just on CNN. He was floated as somebody that could potentially take the gig or try to get the pick up some delegates. And he said, no, I support her. Walter, what do you think about the alternative here? I mean, look, it's gone. He's done. But what happens now when Kamala Harris looks like she's going to walk into this candidacy?

Batya Ungar-Sargon
I mean, the idea that a woman who dropped out of the primary before a single vote was cast because she knew that she would fail miserably, is somehow a contender for Donald Trump at this point in his campaign, and to me is laughable. I just don't, I just think everyone at this point on the democratic side is trying to get away with their dignity intact and trying to minimize the fallout of the epic revelation that I discussed before that we were all just privy to, to where the side that casts itself as the defenders of democracy do not actually believe in democracy at all. They believe in rule by elites, right? And so they're doing whatever they can to try to get back into a position that seems plausible enough that they can go back to play acting, as Walter so eloquently put it. And I think it's, it's, it's risible.

Michael Moynihan
Walter, what do you think of the Kamala Harris coronation?

Walter Kern
Well, first of all, we saw polls that Biden was ahead last week. I asked them on the air. There have not been polls that the public has been privy to at least that show this terrible drop off. We've seen some state polls recently that he wasn't doing well in Michigan and so on. But I just don't think this was left a chance. And if it wasn't left a chance, that means there's a plan. And Barack Obama today did mention a process that someone to emerge. We also saw a couple of weeks ago a floated in which a mini primary would be held. There would be a series of sort of televised town halls hosted by various celebrities, and people would have some kind of American Idol like feedback mechanism. And maybe lynch the delegates, though, is that it's now the Democratic Party, not a candidate. The party is expected to close ranks around the party.

Michael Moynihan
Batya, couple things here. I mean, one of the things that really strikes me is that with Kamala Harris, and let's presume, and I think it's actually fairly safe at this point to presume that this will go in the direction of Kamala Harris. And of course, the argument you think.

Walter Kern
Things are safe to presume at this point.

Michael Moynihan
Michael, come on.

Walter Kern
If it was safe to presume, when did it become that? Today? There is no conventional wisdom survived a week in the last few months, Walter.

Michael Moynihan
I am like Rasputin. I have been saying that Joe Biden is going to get out around now and just wrap me in a carpet, shoot me and put me in the Volga river if I'm wrong about this. But, you know, it looks like it's going to. And look, all the conversation about this is pretty interesting, because it's pretty interesting. Like, you have to win an election. You have to look at these. And I think this is what Obama is doing by withholding a direct Kamala endorsement right away. But look, Joe Biden was very, very straightforward about why he chose Kamala Harris. Are we gonna pretend? We can pretend that we don't know what it is. And one of the things is like, okay, we can't. How many times have we heard the conversation? We cannot skip over the first black female vice president. It's like, well, yes, but you do have to win an election. And if she's not polling well, then maybe you should skip over and try to win this election. If Donald Trump, as you so frequently say, and this is not you, Walter, this is, everybody frequently says, is such a great threat to democracy, you got to get the person that's going to win. If it does go to Kamala Harris, what is the direction of the Democratic Party? I mean, Joe Biden ran in 2020 saying, I'm the center guy. I'm the guy in the middle. I'm not Bernie Sanders. I'm the guy from the old Democratic Party who can keep it there. Kamala Harris did lurch a lot to the left and become the much more progressive person in the White House for sure. Is that the direction we're going, though?

Batya Ungar-Sargon
Kamala Harris is one of these wonderful, lab grown democratic entities who believes in nothing.

Batya Ungar Sargon
Right.

Batya Ungar-Sargon
She's sort of, whatever happens to be the kind of the democratic direction a month ago that you can hear Kamala Harris presenting today. Right. I do want to draw attention to a kind of split screen that we're seeing here between the parties, though, because it's really stark. So on the right, you have the entire donor class coalesced around Nikki Haley. Right? She outspent Trump, famously, two to one in the republican primary, and got absolutely nowhere because the will of the people was simply way too with Trump to be, like, deviated in any way by the millions and millions and millions, she outspend Trump. You then have the kind of intellectual elites show up with this project 2025, which was great for Trump because it gave him an opportunity to just absolutely trash the thing, trash the heritage foundation, trash the intellectual elites and the money elites on his side and say, we're not going to do that. Those people are just like the extremes on the left. They're extremists. We're going for the center. So what you have on the right is a candidate who simply could not care less what the elites want him to say. He's a perfect reflection of his voter base. And he has told the elites in so many words, where to get off effectively, he will not be controlled by them. And it is the act, the exact mirror image of what you're seeing on the left, which is the elites from Hollywood, the elites from the democratic party, and there's a billionaire donor class showing up and absolutely insisting on its right to direct the direction of the party down to who the nominee is after 14 million democrats have cast their votes in, yes, albeit a truncated, fake primary, and yet a primary nonetheless. And it's just amazing that the side that casts itself as the defenders of democracy have fallen total prey, complete capture, proudly, explicitly to the elites on their side. Whereas it is Donald Trump, the alleged threat to democracy, who has said to the elites, you don't control this party, you don't control this country, the voters control this country, and we're going to do what they want.

Michael Moynihan
I, you know, I want to, you know, to sort of drill down on the elite thing for a second. And for me, when I hear the elites, look, it is insane that some actor, some, an actor, like, literally is putting out a thing in the New York Times that somebody's writing for him, apparently with the, the stamp of Barack Obama, who's one of his close friends, and that is having an outcome in our election. An actor, a very handsome actor. But when I watched the media coverage of this, it has been absolutely dizzying. It has been sickening in so many ways in the gaslighting, which I keep on using that phrase, I try to use it as little as possible because I don't like it, but it's true here. And I want to play a clip here, because when the rest of us were saying, something is off with this guy, and we've been saying this for years now, I mean, this is not like a new thing. Joe Scarborough, a former Republican, a former republican congressman who's on a morning show that apparently is Joe Biden's favorite show, was saying things like, list, let's play this from a couple of months back when people were questioning Joe Biden's cognitive abilities. But I under, solely when I said he was cogent, he's far beyond cogent. In fact, I think he's better than he's ever been. This version of Biden, intellectually, analytically, is the best Biden ever. Not a close second. And I've known him for years. The brzezinskis have known him for 50 years. If it weren't the truth, I wouldn't say it Walter Kern, the man who just dropped out of the race because everyone in his party said, you're too old. Joe Scarborough said he was the best Biden he's ever seen. Not just the sharp Biden, the best ever. What do you make of it when you see all of these people in the media saying, no, no, no, it's totally fine, they were lying.

Walter Kern
Because I knew. How did I know, with very few of the contacts that Joe Scarborough has in 2020, that the president was terribly compromised? These same people who wish us to listen to them now going forward have been completely discredited. And it's only a measure of America's inertia and its inability to switch channels that were listening to them at all anymore. And maybe we are and maybe we aren't. It's unclear as to whether whatever narrative forms now, which you can be sure will be cheerleaded and echoed by these people, is going to take hold. Do they have the credibility to launch a new craze, you know, to launch the next Elvis mania around whatever candidate is brought forth? I don't know.

Michael Moynihan
But, yeah, bad news. The book that you wrote, I think it's the title, says a lot, your opinion of the news media. You know, it's amazing because we saw this during COVID and the collapse in trust of the media. It's never been particularly high. I mean, Congress, the media, et cetera, always have pretty low rankings, but it's really, really the bottom has fallen out of it because there's so many just obvious lies in this stuff is not an opinion. Right. This is not saying, look, I don't know the guy, but I think maybe he can get through it. This is someone saying, I talked to him and he's sharper than ever. Mike Barnacle said the same thing on MSNBC. A number of other people like, how dare you do this? This man is a hero, and he saved the country from Donald Trump, and he deserves better. But not only that, there's a great compilation, and I say, tell people, go out and on Twitter X and find it, of the number of people on various cable news channels using the word sharp to describe Joe Biden, which is not exactly how I would describe him, but, yeah, like, how does this affect our view of the media, which, I mean, clearly has been a problem for a lot of us for a long time. It just seems, like, absolutely insane that this is not something close to reality.

Batya Ungar-Sargon
This is 100% a media story as much as it is a political story. The, it's not just Michael the gaslighting. It's not just the lies. The reversal is as disgusting as the lying, right?

Michael Moynihan
Yes.

Batya Ungar-Sargon
So the only people in America who had access to the president, to his doctor's logs, to his cabinet meetings, instead of actually telling the truth to the american people so we could, you know, exercise our democratic rights as citizens, they hid all this information from us, refused to actually do any reporting. They carried water for this administration in the most craven way. And then, and this is, this makes it so much worse. The minute the american people. I don't want to say the american people, because any Fox News viewer, any daily wire viewer, any free press reader knew about this, okay? Anybody who was outside the liberal bubble. But what happened at the debate was the CNN viewer and the New York Times reader were exposed to the truth about Biden. And in that moment, the media did a 180 and started immediately to attack him, actually, in a way, in a tenor and a viciousness that was very similar to how they approached President Trump. Now, you may say, good, they were finally doing their jobs. But what they didn't realize was that every revelation in that moment was a confession, right? Everything they discovered when they were allowed to, because the democratic elites had been embarrassed by this bumbling president so that Democrats could no longer cast themselves as the smarty pants, right? And the Democrat, the Republicans are stupid, right? When that happened and the elite turned on Joe Biden, and then, of course, the craven media realized, oh, my gosh, we let the biggest story of the century go. And they were then admitting with every reported story what they had failed to do when it mattered. Right? It doesn't matter now because the american people saw it with their own eyes. And I think that that perfidiousness, right, the lockstep, the cowardice, the obeisance to George Clooney and Barack Obama, who are these people that our media should be on their knees taking orders from them? And yet they are. It was so disgusting and yet also so predictable.

Michael Moynihan
Batya. I want to be ruled by good looking people like George Clooney. So that just. I mean, that's just me. Like, I'm done with all of them. Batya, Angar Sargon, Walter Kern, thank you so much for joining us on very, very short notice. We were all having a fun Sunday, and now we're having this. So thank you guys for joining us. And check out Walter's podcast. And Batya is at the free press and all around in Newsweek, too. Thanks to both of you.

Batya Ungar-Sargon
Thank you.

Michael Moynihan
All right, you know, look, I said earlier, I said there's a canary in the coal mine element. Here we have one person who I would say is the canary in the coal mine. And I think that I was reading the Wall Street Journal when he might have referred to himself as Paul Revere. I cannot remember if it was, if it was, if it was Representative Dean Phillips who referred to himself or if it was the Wall Street Journal. Either way, it is true. We had an option during that primary. Democrats had an option, and that option was Minnesota representative Dean Phillips. Dean is joining us now. I'm sure he has a very busy day today when people are saying, where is the man who said, I told you so? Dean, can I go back to the beginning and when you decided to run, were you deciding to run and just remind people of this because of ideological differences with the president? Or did you just say, like, look, I love the guy, he's a great guy. He's my president. I supported him. I endorsed him. But I just don't think he can serve at this point?

Dean Phillips
Well, first of all, Michael, thanks for having me. Second of all, I have not yet said I told you so and don't intend to. Third, I was referring to my mission as more Paul Revere than George Washington, meaning what I was really taking on. You asked the question about why. What I was really taking on is a culture of silence that I think is the worst, most dangerous affront to democracy. It was a silence that I saw amongst my republican colleagues when I first joined Congress, as they would have eviscerate, excoriate Donald Trump quietly, privately in the halls of the Capitol, and then publicly get in front of the cameras and worship him. And I thought it was a disease unique to the right. And lo and behold, I saw that it was contagious and infecting the left as well. Now, very different men, Donald Trump and Joe Biden. But that culture of silence infuriated me. And frankly, as I've said so many times before, the political industrial complex, the duopoly is very well tuned to actually suppress competition, reduce participation of voters, and to essentially work against democracy. And I thought it was really important. In the absence of me calling for publicly and privately calling for others to enter the race, I knew that Joe Biden could not win this next election. I knew it was a matter of when, not if, we would have the very conversation that we've had to have in the last three weeks. And I was just so upset that my colleagues, many of them esteemed and principled people, when it came to this, were far more focused on self preservation than the principle of competition and winning. This election, that's what I was running against. I think Joe Biden's a good man. I think most of his policies were very helpful to people. Are there things I would have done differently? And many things I proposed, of course, but that was not my mission. My mission was to provoke a conversation and ensure that voters had an option. And I think without competition, we're in trouble. And I believe that is indeed the vitamin of democracy. So there you have it.

Michael Moynihan
Yeah, I know. I mean, you see it. And I've talked to so many Republicans who say one thing about Donald Trump in private and said it to me in congressional offices on the hill, and then say something very different moments later in front of a microphone, it's about self preservation. But when you were running and you just said, I'm gonna do it, you know, screw the duopoly, I don't care what they say about me, I'm gonna go out there and do it. How were you met? I mean, what was that like when you ran and dove into that wood chipper and said, you know what, I'm going to confront this head on. I mean, you knew that this was going to be a very, very difficult fight. But how was this sort of the democratic party, that machine, in a way, how did they respond?

Dean Phillips
Well, Michael, I'm sure there's some old proverb about he who jumps into a wood chipper that expect to feel x. Let me tell you, I was prepared to be eviscerated, to be deplatformed. But I'll confess, I did not anticipate that my own party that I had both supported financially and electorally for so many years, that I helped flip a district in Minnesota for the first time in 60 years. I was pretty astounded that I was not dismissing the president. I was not trying to be mean spirited towards him. I was trying to uphold the principle of competition. And I was surprised by the degree and the intensity of that anger and the coordination, if you will, on social media to demean, diminish, attack by state party directors, to remove me from the ballot, the whole mechanism, and frankly, not one invitation to join MSNBC for the last year. And that includes my run for president, serving as the ranking member of the Middle east subcommittee on foreign affairs. And so I learned a lot about how this system works. And by the way, I have no animosity, I have no resentment, because it was a mission of principle. And when you pursue such missions, you have to be ready for people to first laugh, then to get angry, and then at the end, to say they knew it all along. And that's where we find ourselves. Now.

Michael Moynihan
You're a better person than I am, congressman. I would be very angry and very resentful. So where are you now? I mean, look, you picked up a handful of delegates. We don't know what the process is going to look like right now. I mean, Barack Obama comes out with a, you know, a letter saying, we love you, Joe Biden not endorsing Kamala Harris. But a number of people are already, this sort of dominoes are falling. What does this process look like from now on? And are you involved in it? Are you saying, like, look, I'm gonna get back on the horse here, and we need some competition, even in this very late stage of the game.

Dean Phillips
Moments ago, you referenced the op ed that I placed in the Wall street journal this morning, which was, of course, timely. I argued two things, that if the president wasn't going to proactively step aside, that we should conduct a secret ballot straw poll in the democratic caucus, share the results directly with him to let him know that this is game over. And anticipating that would happen. Stage two is to conduct a mini primary. And I just tweeted in the last hour, Michael, that I think what we should do is conduct four televised town halls in four regions of the country, do a straw poll of every democratic delegate, about 4000. Invite Vice President Harris and the top three other vote getters to participate in this series of four town halls, and then allow delegates at these town halls to ask questions and introduce candidates to the country, get the eventual nominee ready for campaign mode. And perhaps most importantly, as Jim Clyburn has thoughtfully pointed out, a great opportunity to vet VP candidates. And I just, my principle, Michael, is competition. That's why I entered the race. I think it is the vitamin of democracy, and I'm not going to change my principles in favor of politics. And do I think Vice President Harris is able and prepared for the job? Of course I do. But do I think it would actually help her and give credibility to democrats and to the eventual nominee to go through some type of an introduction to the country? I think, yes. And I do imagine most of my colleagues in most of the country feels the same way. So that's what I believe should happen. Do I believe that I would be among the top three vote getters of democratic delegates? No. I received half a million votes. Joe Biden received 14 million. I'm not an insider. I did not endear myself to the democratic national Committee, and I'm sure, to delegates, but I pursued my mission of principle. And as I said, I tried to be Paul Revere. And it looks like at least that may have cracked the door to what is both a sad day for the country, but also a day to celebrate a magnificent man who I think did the right thing in the spirit of George Washington and now affords the opportunity to have a spirited, next generation, dynamic Democrat compete for the presidency.

Michael Moynihan
Congressman, you know, this is the process. Now, one would imagine Joe Biden steps aside. I mean, you, you thought about it. You said, I'm going to run. And you went into this very kind of unfriendly territory and did so. One would presume that, all right, well, now I can do it. He stepped aside. But it kind of sounds like you're saying that the same system is in place and now it's just going to coalesce around Kamala Harris. But you're suggesting maybe we should actually have a straw poll type vote in this. But do you see the kind of democratic machine that treated you in a particular way, existing in a slightly different form, to push Kamala Harris into November?

Dean Phillips
Of course I do. And there are two challenges. I felt that the country, at least democrats faced, one of which was our nominee of likely nominee, was not going to win. And someone had to say the quiet part out loud. That was my first and foremost priority, which I tried to do. The other is to both understand and eventually propose some reformations to, I think, first of all, a duopoly, not just the Democratic Party, but the Republican Party, both of them private corporations, by the way, that do not answer to voters, that answer to their officers. And that means the de facto incumbent, in this case, Donald Trump on the GOP side and Joe Biden on the democratic side. And I don't think it serves democracy well. So to answer your question, yes, it's the same mechanism, same people. They believe the best thing to do is hide any discord and disarray to coronate certain candidates who are kind of the favored insiders in the group. And that's, look at, that's their perspective. I have a different one. I believe it's one, it's a perspective that should be elevated and shared. But is the time to do that right now? Of course not. So that is what is happening. And look at, at the end of the day, I wanted to ensure that we created some type of dynamic to elevate a candidate more likely to beat Donald Trump. When I started this mission, Vice President Harris's numbers were actually below Joe Biden. Turn up the clock. Now a year it has switched. She is much better positioned than he. Joe Biden had a, he reached his ceiling, and it was declining. I do believe Kamala Harris has a higher ceiling. How she introduces herself as the presidential candidate nominee, as she who she chooses as her vp. The platform and policies that she promotes will dictate how far she can go. And I think it could be quite remarkable. That's what's most important to me right now. Next phase, perhaps, is to elevate, I should say, expose how this really sickening system operates.

Michael Moynihan
I mean, best of luck to you. I mean, we saw the Bernie Sanders people saying something very similar in 2016, which resonated with me, and I said, God, that really looks like there's a lot of thumbs on that scale.

Dean Phillips
In fact, Michael, in the early days of my campaign, when I started enduring the same that Bernie Sanders had, I tweeted a note of apology to him. I had dismissed everything he had said those many years ago, blew it off as just a sore loser. And the truth is, he was right. And he affected some reformations that I think were helpful. But let me make one more appeal to everybody listening and tuning in. The real problem here is that only one in ten Americans participate in primary elections. That's what the parties want. They don't want broad engagement and participation in primaries. They want the party faithful to essentially check the box of the coronated person. That's typically how this works. If more Americans would simply get out and vote in primaries, it is the best way to start affecting change within this system and elevate far more appealing, broadly appealing candidates. And I think that's the most immediate call to action that doesn't take any reformation, just a little bit of inspiration.

Michael Moynihan
Congressman, can I ask you a slightly personal question? Sure. Because I hear you talk about this, and there's so many, I've been in so many situations. There's challenges, and I know that I can overcome them. I know that there's a path to victory. It might even be a slight one. But I hear what you're saying about this, and we've seen this replicated over so many years, and those of us who have studied american politics know how entrenched it is. Why do you do this? I mean, why be a congressman? Why be a part of this machine where you're screaming at it and no one's paying attention? There's some of us that pay attention, but it's really, really just stacked against you. But you do this and you want to be a congressman. I mean, do you think that you can actually affect change. When you see this machine the way it is and the way it's gone after you.

Dean Phillips
I'll tell you, Michael, it's a question that's on my mind regularly. You can imagine, but I've discovered the hard way that one voice can be awfully lonely. And I was for a long time. But when one voice becomes many, it becomes a chorus, and that's what we're seeing now. And there's some gratification in recognizing that, you know, that's what leadership is, by the way. Leadership is not doing the easy. It's not taking the smooth path. It's not putting your, you know, your fingers to the wind and identifying which way the wind's blowing. And I'll go that way. You know, it's about making decisions of principle. They could be unpopular. In my case, a decision that I knew would probably lead to the end of my career in Congress, which it did. I consider that to be a small price to pay. For goodness sakes, my father was killed in the Vietnam War. A million other Americans died serving our country in our military. The least we can do is show a little bit of courage and speak the truth. When it begs for it, you ask the why I woke up the morning after the 2016 election. I was living a. A wonderful, comfortable life in Minneapolis, in business, a father of two teenage daughters, thinking about next chapters. And that night really affected me, and the next morning, even more so when I woke up to the sound of my youngest daughter, Pia, crying in her bedroom. And she had just overcome Hodgkin's lymphoma. She's a gay woman. I didn't know that at the time. And I saw fear in her eyes. This is a young woman of privilege who was safe and secure and had overcome something difficult, but she was, you know, one of the most protected young people in this country. And I saw fear in her eyes. And I sat at the breakfast table that morning, and I promised my two daughters I would do something. And it was the most magnificent experience of my life, Michael. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I would. I would run, as I did a thousand times over. In fact, when the president called me, when I conceded, and in early March, he said on the phone, I would have done the same thing. I would have done the same thing if I were you. You know, service has that name because it is. It's selfless. It's service. It is a profound gratitude for this country that provided refuge for my immigrant family 130 years ago, for the blessings it's afforded me. And growing up in a way that I took it for granted, I thought other people would take care of things. It's in good hands. And I have to tell you that the burdens of public service are complicated and sometimes heavy. But the meaning and the ability to help people, to inspire people, and to show some courage in the face of cowardice is a blessing that I will always cherish. And I leave here with no resentment or animosity, only more inspiration to try to improve the system so that we can attract more of the best and brightest for years to come. And you don't get into this to the wood chipper without knowing that you're going to come out as mulch.

Michael Moynihan
Yes. Yes. Congressman, before I let you go, I just want you to react to some news that just came across the transom that Gavin Newsom, California governor, has endorsed Vice President Harris. And I suppose that's a disappointment to some people. What is your reaction to that? I mean, it seems like the coronation is on.

Dean Phillips
Well, I'll tell you, I'll just make my share, my two cent. No surprise that many are gonna come out immediately endorsing her. And I understand many believe that the most expeditious way to move on and reorient and reset is to simply get right to it. Barack Obama is one probably the most prominent Democrat, has said that we should do a process, that we should not just hand the baton. I think that's antithetical, actually, to what the country wants. I also think it's appropriate to give the vice president a day or two or a little bit of time to stand up a campaign and to get ready. I'm actually kind of saddened that so much of the attention tonight will be about that and not actually talking about Joe Biden's decision, which is not receiving because of this. Not receiving. I think the attention and consideration that it really deserves. Remarkably unusual decision for a person that wields that kind of power to forego it proactively. Very few examples in human history, let alone us history. So, no, I'm not surprised. And by the way, as I've said, you know, politics is a game. It's a team sport. And most people want to be there at the beginning of the race and not show up at the end. And that's how it works. But like I said, my principle is so clear and crisp. Competition makes candidates better, it makes policies better, it makes outcomes better, and it will make Vice President Harris better. So endorsing, that's great. But I just wish at the same time, people would also say I endorse her. But I also believe that we should have some type of a public, transparent introduction of the candidates, the country, and also try out some vps and see how they work together that would be in the best interest of winning. And we'll see if that happens. As for Newsom endorsing her, as we know, you cannot have a presidential and vice presidential candidate from the same state. So you can imagine that he had every reason to do so. By the way, and by the way, I think, you know, my interactions with the vice president have always been gracious and impressive. I think that, I think she's going to shine. I think she's going to surprise people. And I'd like to see her have that chance to do so in that kind of a public forum before just being handed the trophy, if you will, at the convention, I think would make her better and certainly give our party more of a chance to succeed this November. That's my principles. And some might disagree, but that's just fine.

Michael Moynihan
Well, the gracious and impressive Congressman Dean Phillips, thank you for joining us. The only real Democrat, as far as I don't consider RFK, he'll be a libertarian if they would put him on the ticket. The only real Democrat to run against Joe Biden. Thank you so much for joining us, and we hope to hear from you soon.

Dean Phillips
Thank you, Michael. Thanks for promoting debate and conversation and deliberation and to everybody watching and listening, thank you, too.

Michael Moynihan
Yeah, that's what we do. That's what we do. You know what?

Dean Phillips
Participate and deliberate and God knows we're going to be just fine. Thanks, everybody.

Michael Moynihan
Congressman Phillips, thank you so much. All right. Well, a lot of things happening, obviously, the Gavin Newsom thing, as Congressman Phillips pointed out, not terribly surprising considering the rule that these two vice presidential candidate and the presidential candidate cannot be from the same state. So it doesn't surprise us too much. But here to talk to us about everything else, we're going to go to staff. We're going to go to the free press staff, we're going to go to the great Eli Lake, my friend and reporter and man wearing a clash t shirt, the greatest band of all time. So Eli leg Joe Biden drops out. What make you of it?

Eli Lake
It's been such a roller coaster. And I'm sure like you, I'm not getting as much sleep following all the news, and I am on a print deadline about that. You'll see a big piece from me on Kamala tomorrow morning. But I would just say that bullying.

Michael Moynihan
Works, man yes, it's true. You know what I mean? Like, bullying old men works. Yeah.

Eli Lake
Yeah. And it's. It's a little weird that, like, the party that's running to save our democracy just had a little bit of a soft coup, even though I admit that.

Michael Moynihan
Yeah.

Eli Lake
Biden clearly demonstrated that he wasn't fit to run for reelection. And it begs a question, a pregnant question, Michael. If he can't run for reelection, can he still be the president?

Michael Moynihan
Yes.

Eli Lake
And why are we not linking these two things? And why is everybody talking about all these wonderful accomplishments when, like, 24 hours ago they were like, hey, old man, you gotta leave. It's just like, I feel like it's a little sober.

Michael Moynihan
It's a little soviet. The accomplishments. Good lord, if you watched television today, and I want to bring on another free press genius reporter, the greatest of young Olivia Rheingold, one of the best in the business these days. And if you're not following her, there's something wrong with you, and you should drop out of society because she's our favorite Olivia Rheingold. And I want to throw this up for you guys, because you said the accomplishments that people are talking about, if you turned on CNN and you saw Van Jones today, look, I got to say this. I don't want to attack Van Jones. I have a lot of respect for the guy. I think he's an interesting guy. I think he's a smart guy. But Van Jones went on CNN today after Joe Biden announced that that was it for him and he had a bit of an episode. And I want to get the reaction from Livia Rheingold and Eli Lake to this. Can we play this clip?

Van Jones
Politics is politics, but this is a human moment for one of the great humans in America. This is a huge moment for him, for his family, for all of us who love him, him, for all of us who wanted him to get across the finish line. But if you're a young person watching this, this is leadership. This is patriotism. This is what it means to put the country first and put the party first and put the cost first. When your arm gets tied, you let somebody else finish pitching the game. That's what Joe Biden has done, and he's done that for all of us. And so I just want to say, I don't know who's going to be the VP, the non VP. I don't know anything about politics. I just know that I love this man. I care about this man. It was painful every day to sit up here and talk about him like he's just some problem for the party. Wait till we get to the convention. You're going to see people crying, standing, screaming, cheering. He may not get a chance to talk for ten minutes. We finally get a chance to put our arm around this guy. He did the right thing for this country. He did the right thing for this party. All of us are going to be in this situation someday, and I hope that we take a moment to honor this man and to love this man. I love Joe Biden. I appreciate what he's done, and a lot of people are heartbroken today. Even if it's the right thing, it's still just horrible.

Michael Moynihan
He really loves Joe Biden. Look, I don't want to give a guy a hard time for crying on tv. I'm John Boehner. I cry very easily, Olivia Reinkold. I do, and I get it. I understand it. But a couple of things about this before I throw it to you. He did the patriotic thing. What an incredible. He was pushed. Come on, guys. He wasn't going to do the patriotic thing. It wasn't. It wasn't a selfless act. Everyone ganged up on him. As Eli says, bullying works. The bullying worked here. And, you know, the greatest, most impressive man in America. A little hyperbole. Olivia, what do you think of that?

Batya Ungar Sargon
Well, it was a fitting ode, of course, to Biden, but also to Harris, because it really had that energy of. What is that quote? The unburdening by what has become, by whatever. The start. The start of that bandaid speech had the same energy when he was like, we're human. He's a human. This is a human moment. Okay. But, yeah, I mean, this is so interesting because. So I just got off the phone with probably, you know, a half dozen delegates across the country, and I get the sense that there is, like, organization and, you know, coordination going on because. Or maybe it's just social media and people are all watching and consuming the same things, but those are the standard talking points. People are really applauding this effort from Biden, and I am not hearing from many people. Like, wait, why did. Why. Why didn't we go through a real primary? Like, people are not really asking those questions.

Michael Moynihan
Eli, I opened up this phenomenal livestream, one of the best in history, I have to say. It was. It was a. It was a great live stream.

Eli Lake
I love you. You're an amazing man. And this live stream is a testament.

Michael Moynihan
I hope that you start crying during this, but I opened this up at the convention.

Eli Lake
How much we love you.

Michael Moynihan
Yeah, I opened this up by pointing out a poll in 2022. And I remembered it very well because I was going on Bill Maher's show and they said, hey, we're going to talk about this poll June or July, 2022, that a majority, 60 odd percent of Democrats didn't want to see him as the candidate in 2024. This is 2022. The gaslighting in this is like, this is a recent development. The american people, including Democrats, have known for a very long time that it was a very risky bet to make Joe Biden the candidate.

Eli Lake
I mean, Joe Biden knew. He said he was going to be a transitional figure. He was going to pass the torch. He originally committed to one term. So what are we talking about?

Michael Moynihan
What are we even talking about?

Eli Lake
But, you know, now I'm disgusted with the whole democratic meat. I mean, I'm sorry, but, like, I think, and I'm not delighted about this. I'm not a trumper, but I think Trump is going to win in a landslide. And the reason he's going to win is not because Joe Biden is geriatric and enfeebled or it's not going to be because Kamala Harris is a bad candidate and cackles. It's not going to be because of any of that. It's going to be because the Democrats are living in a community of lies. I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. Everybody knew how old. Everybody, you're absolutely right. They all knew it. They were all pushing him out. And when before the debate, they were all talking about how, you know, I mean, we'd all seen the clips with Karine Jean Pierre coming out there saying, I can't even keep up with them. Yeah, I wrote an AI song called Joe's younger than you think, making fun of all this. Like, he wakes up at 04:00 a.m. you know, and is speaking Mandarin with Xi Jinping and reading Latin. It's like, give me a break. This is a joke. And everybody knows it's a joke. And the big problem here is that none of these people who are basically running on restoring democracy and we tell the truth, and it's true. Trump is the king of bullshit. But you guys are a bunch of liars and everybody sees it. And it's not a partisan point.

Michael Moynihan
It's not a partisan point. No, it's not a partisan point. On behalf of reality, you have, we had Dean Phillips on right before this and Dean Phillips, who I find I like, just an amazingly charming and interesting guy, even if you have a million policy differences with him. I mean, the guy says, look, I just wanted some sort of competition here in the democratic machine. Ate me up. I mean, it's not about money. I mean, Dean Phillip has a lot of money. It's about being part of the establishment. And I think that this reinforces all of that. The media establishment with everyone saying he's totally fine. Karine Jean Pierre, you expect politicians to lie, but when they're lying and saying, we're here to save democracy and they're not telling you what is happening with the president. As a matter of fact, President Biden said in an interview, I can't remember Stephanopoulos. Maybe he said, I'll get out if I see polls that suggest, all the polls suggest. And then there's an article in the New York Times that says his people close to him are keeping information from the president of the United States does not have access to information. Are you joking? He doesn't have a laptop.

Eli Lake
His most important advisor in the last two weeks is Hunter. Bob. I mean, Mister Burisma.

Michael Moynihan
Yes, he's my hero.

Eli Lake
Discharge.

Michael Moynihan
Olivia. We were together in Milwaukee at the convention, and I said to a number of people, there was an energy there that probably should scare Democrats. There was a very, very excited energy. And Eli says something I think is interesting. It's not that he's going to lose because he's an old enfeebled man. Maybe that doesn't help him very much, but he's probably going to lose because Republicans are pretty damn excited about their candidate this time around. I mean, that's what I took away from the convention.

Batya Ungar Sargon
Well, there's that. I would say that Democrats would have a chance if they actually heated to the lessons of this moment. Like if following the first debate, they actually started to, you know, interrogate themselves and, and actually, like what Dean folks were talking about actually had an open debate. They have, you know, miss the primary window. But if they actually had open debate about who should be their nominee, I would say that they would have a chance. But here's the thing. I've been speaking to delegates who are party people through and through. These are, these are people who. Very few. I spoke to one who seems like her vote is in play. The rest of them are, you know, a few are a little disappointed and they're like, I really wanted to vote for Biden, and I'm so bummed that I can't. But anyway, these are people who first and foremost are backing the party and heard the endorsement of Harris, are ready to act on it and so I worry that there is this disconnect between the voters who I think there are a lot of people who still are like, I don't want to vote for Trump. I'm a liberal or a Democrat at heart, and their vote technically is up for grabs. If only the Democrats would put things in play and let people actually decide.

Michael Moynihan
Well, I will say this, that the Democratic Party is going to have to have a real reckoning with the party and a come to Jesus moment. And the way that the Republicans have, I mean, you looked at that convention, you realize the Republican Party that you knew in the past, me, Eli, people of our vintage knew is gone. And they're going to have to do some reassembling, disassembling and reassembling if Kamala Harris is the nominee and she gets slaughtered in November. But what do we have to look forward to, ladies and gentlemen? We have to look forward to. Hold on, Eli, because I'm going to play a clip, and you're going to like this. It's going to be your favorite clip, the best clip, because the potential nominee, we don't know this. Yes. Kamala Harris is something of the Philip Larkin of the party. She's a bit of a poet. And I want to play this clip of her speaking and get you guys to respond to it. I can imagine what can be and be unburdened by what has been, you know, what can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What we can see, what we believe can. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. What can be unburdened by what has been. We could do this for hours. And I have the prerogative as a host here to say maybe we cut up there.

Batya Ungar Sargon
Do you think it's going to be the slogan? You think it's gonna be the slogan for the campaign?

Michael Moynihan
Look, if you had, my daughter said something one time when she was, like, five years old. She said, thing was very funny, and I laughed. And then she repeated it again and I didn't laugh. And she's like, it's the same joke. Why is it not funny? And I was like, well, when you repeat it, it loses some of its power. And I'll explain it to you later. She thinks she had a good line she's repeated for genuinely.

Batya Ungar Sargon
What does it mean? What does it mean?

Eli Lake
I'm someone who's a poetic way of advocating historical illiteracy because.

Batya Ungar Sargon
What can be, can be unburdened by what has no.

Eli Lake
Everything that will be is burdened by what came before it because we have memories and we would have no human. It's such a dumb. It's the dumbest.

Batya Ungar Sargon
Wait, what's the unburdening process?

Eli Lake
Is it the valueless nonsense? It's just saying words that sound good to make people sound good. But if you think America unburdened nonsense. I'm sorry. That's what it is.

Michael Moynihan
Olivia, what are your hopes for the Kamala Harris presidency if one happens unburdened by what you know about her?

Batya Ungar Sargon
I think slam poetry, I think she should collab with. Do you remember Biden's inauguration when there was a slam poet or something? Sorry, no offense to this woman. She might just be a poet poet. But, like, I think she and Kamala should do really cool, a cool poetry collab together. What do I, what are your expectations?

Michael Moynihan
She's kind of been, she's kind of been, you know, cast aside and you don't hear much from her. So we're, we don't really know what to expect. I mean, she hasn't been very vocal in the past three or four years.

Batya Ungar Sargon
I think it's going to be really polished and if anything, she will be like, the gaffes are going to be like, how stale it is because that's obviously a line that, like, someone wrote might have been her and has been approved and things like that. And, like, people on her team obviously are aware of this line if she says it that often. So I think it's going to be very carefully managed. But that is not a great Persona to have when you're going up against this guy who at the RNC, Washington off prompter, like half of the off.

Michael Moynihan
Prompter for about four and a half hours, as far as I remember. It was literally, you know, Shiloh, it was the longest battle of all time. I will say this. I will end us on this. Politics is obviously a game of personality, and I think the biggest weakness that Kamala Harris is going to have is her personality. When people say don't like her, she pulls pretty low. Is it about her as a Daeinh? Is it about her turn to the kind of more progressive left? Is it the things she's done as vice president? The answer to all of those things is no, it's just there's something a bit off about her and people don't like her. Trump is, there's something very off about him, but it is somehow very appealing to people. Eli Lake, he's a good hang. He's a good hang. Eli Lake, Olivia Rheingold, two stars of the free press in a stable full of stars. Thank you so much for joining us. I am Michael Moynihan live on this momentous day where Joe Biden decided to go home and take a nap and no longer be the democratic nominee. You should go over to the free press right now and subscribe if you haven't. That's what keeps this thing going. That's what makes these live streams happen. And it's thefp.com. and you will find a way to subscribe. And you can read Eli, and you can read a Olivia Rheingold and a million other things beside. And listen to me over at the Honestly podcast. We'll be doing more of these. They have been very, very fun. And the reaction from all of you has been absolutely fantastic and absolutely great. So we will see you next time. The next time there's amazing news and we decide to go live. So thank you for coming live with us, and we will see you next time.