Primary Topic
This episode delves into why an increasing number of black voters are considering supporting Donald Trump over the Democratic Party, a shift driven by disillusionment with unfulfilled promises and policies perceived as ineffective or damaging to their communities.
Episode Summary
Main Takeaways
- Black voters are shifting towards Donald Trump due to dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party’s unfulfilled promises and policies.
- Economic issues and personal empowerment are significant factors in this political realignment.
- The perception of economic and cultural understanding by Trump resonates with some black voters.
- There is a strong call for real change and effective leadership that genuinely addresses the needs of black communities.
- The episode highlights a broader dialogue about race, politics, and identity in America.
Episode Chapters
1. Introduction
Michael Moynihan introduces the topic, noting a shift in black voter allegiance from Democrats to Donald Trump, driven by perceived unfulfilled promises and ineffective policies.
Michael Moynihan: "For the past few decades, it’s been conventional wisdom in DC that demographics are destiny."
2. Voices from the Community
Interviews with black conservatives reveal personal stories and the broader reasons for their shift to the Republican Party.
AK Camara: "I think that it’s, like, kind of all these things together that black men feel, in a sense, like, emasculated."
3. Cultural and Economic Factors
Discussion on how cultural perceptions of masculinity and economic policies under Trump influence voter attitudes.
Tameko Hope: "I grew up in the projects, and then after that, I became a section eight voucher holder."
4. Concluding Thoughts
Moynihan summarizes the discussions and reflects on the potential impact of this shift for future elections.
Michael Moynihan: "Donald Trump's personality, the way he speaks, straightforward and often shocking language, was in no way a liability."
Actionable Advice
- Engage in informed discussions about political policies and their impact on your community.
- Explore the historical voting patterns and current political promises critically.
- Participate in community forums to voice concerns and listen to different perspectives.
- Educate yourself on the economic policies that directly affect your community.
- Consider the long-term effects of political loyalty and the importance of accountability from elected officials.
About This Episode
For the past few decades, it’s been conventional wisdom in D.C. that “demographics are destiny.” That the increased share of immigrants, young people, and racial minorities across the country would build a bulletproof coalition for the Democratic Party, swelling their ranks and keeping them in power forever.
Those who deviated from this expectation could expect to be called sellouts, race traitors, and Uncle Toms. Recall Joe Biden’s infamous interview with radio host Charlamagne tha God, when he said: “If you have a problem figuring out if you’re for me or for Trump, then you ain’t black.”
But in the past year, Donald Trump has been winning over more minority voters than any Republican in decades. Recent polls have consistently shown that Trump has reached a shocking 20 percent support among black voters. That’s compared to the 8 percent he got in 2016. And Biden’s polling with black voters has dropped dramatically.
This is a monumental, and to many, unexpected turn. And it was noticeable at the RNC. When Michael Moynihan went to the 2016 Republican Convention in Cleveland, the audience was more monochromatic. While certainly not as racially diverse as the Democratic coalition, the convention in Milwaukee felt younger and less white.
Monday night, Amber Rose opened the proceedings. Tuesday night, Madeline Brame, the mother of a murdered veteran, gave a thunderous speech explaining why she’s supporting Trump. She said: “Our eyes have been opened, just like so many other poor minorities across America. Donald Trump shares our values, love of God and family and country. He’s been a victim of the same corrupt system that I have been and my family has been.”
What’s behind this shift? Why do Biden and the Democratic Party seem to be losing their edge with black voters? And could this end up making a real difference for the 2024 election?
Last night, Michael Moynihan went to an event at the RNC put on by the Black Conservative Federation to ask them why they think that MAGA conservatism is appealing to black voters.
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Michael Moynihan, AK Camara, Tameko Hope
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Transcript
Michael Moynihan
From the free press. This is honestly im Michael Moynihan. For the past few decades, its been conventional wisdom in DC that demographics are destiny, that the increased share of immigrants, young people, and racial minorities across the country would be a bulletproof coalition for the democratic party, swelling their ranks and keeping them in power forever. Those who deviated from this expectation could expect to be called a sellout, a race trader and Uncle Tom. Recall Joe Biden's infamous interview with the radio host Charlemagne the God, I tell it, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump and you ain't black. But in the past year, Donald Trump has been winning over more minority voters than any Republican in decades. Recent polls have consistently shown that Trump has reached a shocking 20% support among black voters. Thats compared to the 8% he got in 2016. And Bidens polling with black voters has dropped dramatically. This is a monumental and to many unexpected turn. And it was noticeable at the RNC when I went to the 2016 republican convention in Cleveland. The audience was more monochromatic. While certainly not as racially diverse as the democratic coalition, the convention in Milwaukee felt younger and less white. Monday night, model and former Kanye west girlfriend Amber Rose opened the proceedings.
Tameko Hope
The left told me to hate Trump and even worse, to hate the other side, the people who support him. When you cut through the lies, you realize the truth. American families were better when Donald Trump was president.
Michael Moynihan
Tuesday night, Madeleine Brame, the mother of a murdered veteran, gave a thunderous speech explaining why she's supporting Trump just like.
Tameko Hope
So many others, poor minorities across America, Donald Trump shares our values, love of God and family and country. He's been a victim of the same corrupt system that I have been in. My family has been.
Michael Moynihan
So whats behind this shift? Why do Biden and the Democratic Party seem to be losing their edge with black voters? And could this end up making a real difference in the 2024 election? Wednesday night, I went to an event at the RNC put on by the Black Conservative Federation to ask its members and supporters why they think that MAGA conservatism is appealing to some black voters. After the break, youll hear some of those interviews. Well be right back.
Josh Hammer
Hey, guys, Josh Hammer here, the host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer, a podcast for the first podcast network. Look, there are a lot of shows out there that are explaining the political news cycle, whats happening on the hill, to this, to that. There are no other shows that are cutting straight to the point when it comes to the unprecedented lawfare, debilitating and affecting the 2024 presidential election. We do all that every single day right here on America on trial with Josh Hammer. Subscribe and download your episodes wherever you get your podcast. It's America on trial with Josh Hammer.
Michael Moynihan
So tell me your name, first of all.
AK Camara
Yep. AK Camara, aka Camara.
Michael Moynihan
Where are you from? AK.
AK Camara
Yep. So I'm originally from California, but I was raised in North Dakota, and I've been living in Minnesota now for almost 20 years because I grew up in low income, subsidized housing in the town of Devil's Lake, North Dakota. My mom and dad, they split up, got back together. My dad got arrested, went away to prison for selling drugs. And the area that I grew up in, we called the welfare square. So I.
Michael Moynihan
How long was your father in prison?
AK Camara
He was sentenced to nine years, nine days. He ended up serving four. He got on parole.
Michael Moynihan
And you were how old?
AK Camara
So he got arrested when I was 15, and he got out when I was 19.
Michael Moynihan
Okay.
AK Camara
Yeah. I go full bore into republican politics. I joined an organization while I'm in college called the college Republicans. You know, I'm like, almost like out there on the street, like a street preacher, but talking about politics.
Michael Moynihan
What were other black students saying to you when you were preaching to them about republican politics?
AK Camara
The students, not really an issue. They were willing to engage in dialogue. It was the professors. They had a problem. I had a lot of black female professors that came up to me and were calling me, like, race trader, Uncle Tom, wild stuff.
Michael Moynihan
How often to this day, are you called a race trader and an Uncle Tom?
AK Camara
Honestly, black females call it to me all the time.
Michael Moynihan
You're very specific about females. Black females, not black men.
AK Camara
Black males really don't.
Michael Moynihan
They don't.
AK Camara
You know, every once in a while, you'll come across one that's really hardcore, but it's almost like there's. And this actually tracks. When you look at polling data, black males have really started to move way towards republicans.
Michael Moynihan
Why do you think that is in particularly? I mean, you look at George W. Bush, George HDD, HW Bush, you know, Mitt Romney, they weren't hit every day in the media with the accusation that their candidate is a racist, whereas Donald Trump is, you know, routinely accused of that. Why do you think that shift is happening under this sort of republican party lead, the leadership of Donald Trump? Yeah.
AK Camara
Yeah.
Michael Moynihan
I mean, it's kind of surprised me in a way. And you're right, it is a lot of black males that are shifting towards kind of Maga republicanism. Why do you think that is.
AK Camara
Yeah. Honestly, I think it's the idea of, like, masculinity. I mean, when you ask, like, why is this difference between black females and black males? I think that to a certain degree, feminism that says you're a woman, you don't need no man actually had a more detrimental impact on black communities. And you can tie in things like having these crackdowns on crime and having welfare programs that went to people that are in poverty, which, you know, statistically speaking, there's larger percentages of black communities that are in poverty overall. The total number. Yes, more white people in the entire United States are in poverty or in. On poverty programs. But as a percentage, there's just a larger percentage of the black population when you compare it to average white population. So I think that it's, like, kind of all these things together that black men feel, in a sense, like, emasculated. And Donald Trump is the opposite. He is like, if you want to say a caricature of, like, I'm a man, here's what I do. And I think that that is empowering to black men. They find that. Yeah, that's right. Like, I think that it is important to have, you know, again, strong male models in life. And that archetype fits very well. And that's why, like, I think even back in the nineties, there was a lot of black culture, especially in hip hop communities, that would reference Donald Trump because he's the boss, right? Like, he goes out there, he's this tough guy. He's got this masculine appeal. The ladies loved him. And so I think that that aspect of him just being able to say what he wants to say has been appealing to black males. When I think, though, of policy as well, he has this willingness to engage. You can call it in crass conversation, but he says it, like how he feels. And I think that's another thing as well, that is strong with black males is like, the entire idea of hip hop is you say what you want to say, right? It's like artistic expression. So that's why I think that there's this openness. And I've said the way that we can actually truly flourish, this is we have to be willing to accept that this is a cultural difference that might feel weird to republicans like hip hop in and of itself. But if we are open to it, I think we're going to find that our party can grow. And here's a funny thing. I think that as more black males move over, more black females will start to come over, just in general, because you're going to be in relationships and, you know, you're saying I'm taking more active role in my political beliefs. And then I think, obviously, the big thing is that our economy has had these ebbs and these flows. And I think that there was a certain level of economic prosperity that was occurring in this country before COVID hit and during Donald Trump's first presidency. And now you have this compare and contrast. It's a whole lot worse. And you can argue about how much of it is outside of the control of the president. I would accept those arguments as a political science major, but there is still a simple truth, a conventional wisdom, that things just are worse now with Biden than they were with Trump. And at least when Trump was running and they said all these things about him, they didn't seem to really come true. So I think that that's fascinating in and of itself. But, you know, back all the way back to your first question, kind of thinking about this larger picture, you know, for me, getting involved in the world of politics and kind of going down this path of, like, what do I want to be? Even though I have diamond stud earrings, I have my wife's name tattooed on my neck, I have tattoos all over my arms, but I still go to the Republican Party and I say, hey, I believe in the values of the Republican Party. I want to represent you. And being elected to the RNC, one of 168 members in the entire country that sits in the same board as Michael Whatley, the chairman of the RNC, and Laura Trump, the co chair of the RNC and representing the entire state of Minnesota as the committee man, it means something. It means that it's more than just here's this cookie cutter model. This is what you have to be to be a Republican. And I kind of represent that, I think, pretty well. I love hip hop music. I also love rock music. I hate country music. And so that's another thing, too, is when they're playing country music, I always make fun of it. But I think it's about more than just this cookie cutter idea of, like, what is a Republican. And I challenge that paradigm. I think that's really the power of our party, is that it's more than just this narrative that's been constructed is for white, rich men. It's actually absurd.
Michael Moynihan
That was great. Thanks, buddy.
Tyrone Muhammad
Thank you, man. My name is Tyrone Muhammad from Chicago.
Michael Moynihan
Tyrone Mohammed from Chicago.
Tyrone Muhammad
Yes.
Michael Moynihan
And you got a t shirt on Tyrone Mohammed from Chicago. What does it say on it?
Tyrone Muhammad
Ex cons for Trump.
Michael Moynihan
Ex cons for Trump.
Tyrone Muhammad
Yeah.
Michael Moynihan
Not what I expected to see in Milwaukee.
Tyrone Muhammad
Right.
Michael Moynihan
You're an ex con?
Tyrone Muhammad
Yes, I am.
Michael Moynihan
How long did you spend inside?
Tyrone Muhammad
21 years straight.
Michael Moynihan
21 years?
Tyrone Muhammad
Yes.
Michael Moynihan
Can I ask you about it? Is that okay?
Tyrone Muhammad
I mean, yeah.
AK Camara
Yeah.
Michael Moynihan
What were you in for?
Tyrone Muhammad
Murder.
Michael Moynihan
You were in for murder? Yeah, man. And how old were you when you went to prison?
Tyrone Muhammad
About 24, 25.
Michael Moynihan
What were the circumstances that you, growing up in Chicago, ended up in prison for? Murderous.
Tyrone Muhammad
Well, it's. I often talk about it, but it was. It was a situation where, you know, oftentimes you feel you had to defend yourself from violence or whatever, but.
Michael Moynihan
So you grew up around gangs?
Tyrone Muhammad
Of course. I've been in gangs since I was twelve years old. So that's the culture. That's what we.
Michael Moynihan
Twelve?
Tyrone Muhammad
Yeah, that's what we promote. We watch the Godfather, right?
Michael Moynihan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tyrone Muhammad
We got gangs in New York. Yeah, we got scarf. And I often tell people that black men did not invent gangs. That was gangsters, italian, irish and Jews. So we often get the bad rap from gangs because what gangs are or were have morphed into something that is a little different to me from the political persuasion. If you look at the unions and all of the prohibitions that was created as a result of the liquor as well as drugs, and now there's notorious for the prohibition. I think we have legal gambling. Yeah, yeah. And legal liquor as a result of the gangs in Chicago.
Michael Moynihan
So when did you get out?
Tyrone Muhammad
I've been home since 2017.
Michael Moynihan
2017?
Tyrone Muhammad
Yes.
Michael Moynihan
Were you political before this? Did you get political in prison?
AK Camara
Did you?
Tyrone Muhammad
Well, you know, I've. I kind of say we all political because our communities actually make us political. Because the systemic disinvestment, redlining and all the things that hasn't changed, even when it comes to colleges taking over communities and expanding where foreigners and college students enjoy communities that we don't even enjoy.
Michael Moynihan
You just described some pretty famous racist policies, like redlining and, you know the argument because you got the hat on, you got the shirt on, you interact with people all the time and they say, well, now you're with the guy and he's a racist and the party's racist. Why would you kind of go towards these people? So when people say that to you, what's your general response?
Tyrone Muhammad
So me, I'm. I'm a smart ass. You know what I'm saying? I'm a smart ass. And I always tell people I spent 21 years in college. Prison was used for me as a tool to catch up on what the school system don't teach you.
Michael Moynihan
So when was the point that you thought the republican party, and Donald Trump in particular, is the person who's like best to roll that back and help black people?
Tyrone Muhammad
It doesn't. I don't believe in the Republicans, party or no party. I'm not a party person. I'm an american.
Michael Moynihan
So when you're around disinvested young black men, do you see people drifting towards Donald Trump?
Tyrone Muhammad
Cause a lot of the polls suggest Trump represents an affront to the establishment. Chicago is a democratic led city, but we have some of the worst crime from ages 18 to 24, the worst unemployment rate. And then the school systems have been pipelines for to prisons ever since I've been attending them. So you may talk, say Trump is racist, but Chicago democratic community, democratic state has been the most racist. Indeed. You talking about somebody who racist in terms of words and language. I'm telling you, Chicago Democrats, the policies has been more racist to our communities than anything they can imagine that Donald Trump is. For.
Michael Moynihan
Now, let me put this.
Tyrone Muhammad
Or allegedly, is it the case? The Clinton 94 crime bill.
Michael Moynihan
Yeah.
Tyrone Muhammad
When Joe Biden was in leadership caused more issues and disinvestment in our community, removing black men and boys from communities and households and our neighborhoods than anything Donald Trump has ever done.
Michael Moynihan
So there's been, the assumption in black communities is that, you know, we're black, we vote for Democrats. And that's been a kind of assumption for a long time. So basically what you're saying is that you've had. That you've done that, but you haven't seen the results.
Tyrone Muhammad
We haven't seen the results. It's not that I believe Republicans would do us better. It's that at some point, we have to take a real systemic approach ourselves to say, okay, we're gonna show you that you don't have a monopoly on our vote. And if we don't push, it's only two parties. If we talk a national race, it's only two candidates in the race that can actually win. So our voting for Trump isn't that Trump is the best choice for us, or he has, or he has done anything extraordinary for the black community. It's just that it represents the only other choice that can show democrats that you don't own us. We not on a slave plantation. And just because our grandmothers have for 50, 60 years voted this way, we haven't seen the result of holding on to this one party. It's no real pushback from our community to say, enough is enough. We're gonna force you to do right.
Michael Moynihan
Thanks, brother. That was. That's great.
Tyrone Muhammad
Yes, sir.
Michael Moynihan
I really appreciate that.
Tameko Hope
My name Tameko Hope. I'm the 28th War Republican Committee woman.
Michael Moynihan
It used to be a thing where you'd have a black Republican or a black Trump supporter, and it was like, you know, one in, like, 20, 1516, and they put them behind Donald Trump.
Tyrone Muhammad
Right.
Michael Moynihan
Blacks for Trump, etcetera. That's really changed. It's really changed. Why do you think things are so different in 2024 with black voters, like, vis a vis Donald Trump and the Republican Party?
Tameko Hope
What's changed in 2024 that you hear more of? Okay, yeah, we're going for Trump 100%.
Michael Moynihan
Yeah.
Tameko Hope
You dumped a bunch of illegal immigrants on us. And with all of. Just be honest.
Tyrone Muhammad
That's it.
Tameko Hope
It's called a spade. A spade with all of the loyalty that we gave you, our people gave you, and it's like you're doing it as if it's nothing. It doesn't cause problems for us.
Michael Moynihan
And you live in Chicago?
Tameko Hope
Yes, I do.
Michael Moynihan
So about a year ago, I said to a friend of mine who's got to do a podcast with, and he said, have you been paying attention to the city council meetings in. I guess Lori Lightfoot was still the mayor, where black people from, like, exclusively black neighborhoods, not coming to these places and saying the illegal immigration is a problem. Yeah.
AK Camara
Yes.
Michael Moynihan
And people weren't noticing that.
Tameko Hope
So how could you not notice that it's a problem when you're listening to all of the money that's being allocated to just pretty much taking care of them. Okay. So with that being said, and we have all of these issues in our community, at risk population. I come from that. I grew up in Chicago housing Authority.
Michael Moynihan
You did?
Tameko Hope
Yes. I just transitioned from Chicago being a Chicago housing resident in 2021 when I bought my own condo.
Michael Moynihan
So hold on. And to people who don't know what that means, you lived in the projects?
Tameko Hope
Basically, I grew up in the projects, and then after that, I became a section eight voucher holder.
Michael Moynihan
Okay.
Tameko Hope
So subsidized housing all of my life.
Michael Moynihan
Up until three years ago, 2021. Can I ask how old you are?
Tameko Hope
I'm 52.
Michael Moynihan
So I think most people would presume you're a product of public housing. That's the state.
Tameko Hope
Rough. When I say rough childhood. Growing up in that environment.
Michael Moynihan
Yes. I mean, most people say, like, well, you probably have to be a Democrat, right? You grew up in this place, a democratic city. That hand that was outstretched to give you housing and sort of public assistance comes from the Democratic Party. Why would you not be a Democrat?
Tameko Hope
Because I realized we were being economically lynched.
Michael Moynihan
It's pretty harsh.
Tameko Hope
Oh, no. Very serious. And it takes segments to break it down.
Michael Moynihan
Tell me what you mean by that in the most kind of succinct way you can. It's a hard one.
Tameko Hope
No, it's not hard when you're writing policies, because I read policy and I understand policy. When you're writing policy and legislation that purposely locks us out from economic growth, it's economic lynching systematically.
Michael Moynihan
And that's exclusively the domain of Democrats in your mind.
Tameko Hope
Yeah, we've all been in power since I've been growing up. My community has been blighted. We don't have Republicans there to blame. So you have economic lynching with poverty pimping. Yeah, all of those terms, I will say it.
Michael Moynihan
Economic lynching with poverty pimping. What's poverty pimping?
Tameko Hope
When you pretty much, you have a bunch of organizations eating off our plates and to a lot of people that pretty much tax dollars is going, it's looking like all of this money and they're just, they lazy. They don't want to do anything. We're not moving the needle because there's a lot of stealing going on in that space. And you have to understand that space to understand the breakdown of how the money is being filtered and funneled out and not going to the people that it's supposed to serve.
Michael Moynihan
So ask, I've asked everyone this because I hear it so much. How do you respond to the people in your own community who say, you can't be a Republican, you're black, black people cannot be Republicans. It's not a party for black people. And on top of that, it is, in fact, a racist party.
Tameko Hope
So I say to them is, I have a problem. I don't have a problem with the racist, whatever you want to call it, that spew it out they mouth. I have the problem with the ones that write it in policy of legislation that pretty much keeps us big and on our knees. No, and actually I don't have that problem. Cause when they ask, well, who you voting for? I have two terms for them. Donald Trump's name and hash run up all that hate. You spewing, all of that. Actually, it's a lot of bullying going on. So I don't subscribe to that at all. I don't invite it. So I guess my demeanor keeps people away.
Michael Moynihan
Yeah, yeah.
Tameko Hope
I mean, we've been doing, we've been doing for so long, you have to try something different to get another result. You can't keep doing the same thing, getting different. You think you're going to get a different result. If you got everybody on one side of the ship, what happens to the ship? We have to create some balance.
Michael Moynihan
So you come from a city that has been run by Democrats for a really long time and essentially is a failed state in a lot of ways, right? It's a failed city. It's a violent city. It's a city that has incredible amounts of poverty. And you're just looking for a different, a different path, right?
Tameko Hope
I'm looking for a different path for my people. See, I identify as a black freedmen. I'm a descendant of slaves, right? So I'm looking for a better path for my people. If we all do a little, we can get a lot done and keep doing the same thing, expecting different results. That's not working.
Michael Moynihan
Is America a racist country?
Tameko Hope
Yeah, it is.
Michael Moynihan
It is.
Tameko Hope
Yeah. But I also look at racism. You are going to do what's best for your family, right? And then after your family, you're going to do what's best for your people, right? So I don't consider you a racist, right. Because at the end of the day, self preservation is the first law of nature. Then whatever else you have left over, you know, then you can be benevolent, whatever the case may after you take care of your own, right? So, and this is my thing, I have a problem with anybody that can dare say that we, as black people that decided to come over on this side of the fence, think we subscribe into racist shit. Oh, scoop stuff.
Michael Moynihan
You can say shit. I prefer it if you do.
Tameko Hope
It's better because I have to look out for, for my family, and my family is descendants of slaves, right? Nobody else is looking out for us. But you can come to us to bail you out when it's time for. We only see you when you vote. We're done with turkey's hams and song and a damn dance. We need economic growth. That's the only way to solve a lot of problems that we're having. People are. We're destined. When you growing up in a community, you don't have community centers where the children are being taught, you know, to socialize with one another. They not being taught conflict resolution and not being taught etiquette. Our schools, our schools are. Do you know that our children, our children are graduating with high school diplomas and cannot read and do math on fifth grade level at some point in time. What are we supposed to do? Just keep accepting it? We may not be able to turn Illinois red right away, but we damn sure working on turning it purple.
Michael Moynihan
Republicans often talk about, you know, not government money, but personal responsibility and lifting yourself up by your own bootstraps. What do you make of that message, which you hear quite a bit at.
Tameko Hope
The RNC, lifting yourself up by the bootstraps? Bunch of bullshit coming from where I come from, because you don't have no bootstraps in the first place to even grab on to lift yourself.
Michael Moynihan
You don't have any boots.
Tameko Hope
They're not getting that part. And I do understand that some people grow up in the bubble, but until you meet and start bridging the gaps and start talking to one another and start talking to people that can actually break it down, then they start to understand.
Michael Moynihan
So the government's necessary to help the government.
Tameko Hope
So this is, this is my thing. The government makes themselves necessary because of all of the money that's coming in and whose pockets is going out to. We have to look at that part.
Michael Moynihan
You think Donald Trump is the kind of, if not the solution to that, then in the right direction, away from that kind of culture.
Tameko Hope
So I'm gonna tell you just like this, our business up under his administration, the ones that us to start a business, he put section three on staff steroids, right? That whole policy, he put it on steroids to where they took it around the whole country. And we're trying to educate public housing residents about, hey, you can own a business. Hey, when this contract to come in your area, you know, this contract come in your area through this housing authority, you pretty much, they're supposed to be jobs that you set aside for you to get yourself in the workforce or what you interested in. He did that. No other administration did that. He did that. Our businesses flourished. What I mean, I'm looking at the economics of it all. I'm not looking at all the rhetoric. I'm not looking at any of that. I'm looking at the economics of it all. And people say, oh, well, money isn't everything. Yeah, I beg to differ.
Michael Moynihan
But the symbolism, you don't care about. So, for instance, Joe Biden, I don't think is going to be the nominee, but if it's Kamala Harris, is there any symbolism in that? Like a black female president that appeals.
Tameko Hope
To you once again, I said economics that don't. Okay, we gonna have the first con president. How's about that? This is, everybody wanna believe in the first and this and the that. Let's do a first over here with that.
Michael Moynihan
Mm hmm.
Tameko Hope
I don't see nothing wrong with it. But, no, that don't move me. I'm not. What do you. I'm not emotional, and I'm not wired that way. I'm a meat some potatoes type of woman. Yeah. And I'm logical more than emotional.
Michael Moynihan
Thank you so much.
Tameko Hope
Thank you.
Walter Hudson
No problem.
Michael Moynihan
Absolute pleasure.
Walter Hudson
Raised in Milwaukee, born in St. Louis. I've been here since I was five years old. This is the only home I know.
Michael Moynihan
How long have you been a Republican?
Walter Hudson
So I've been a conservative.
Michael Moynihan
Conservative?
Walter Hudson
Yeah. Probably most of my life. Most black people are morally conservative but socially liberal. We just never called it conservatives. So when I finally left, the Democratic Party was right after college. So I'm a black college grad. I went to Morris Brown in Atlanta, Georgia. I also went to school here in Wisconsin for a few years in Whitewater, part of the 220 program which busts city kids to the suburbs. So I had a very interesting upbringing in my life so far.
Michael Moynihan
So you were a busing kid?
Walter Hudson
I was a bus kid, yeah. Now they called it open enrollment, and so it took away the busing. So you gotta get your own way there. But back then, they gave us bus passes. You had to catch a city bus out, played basketball for the school, shout out to Tulsa west, class of 93. And that kind of made my view of the world a bit different. Predominantly black, gifted middle school, but went to a primary white high school. In my first few years of college, I met a white college called Whitewater up north. And then I finished in a historical black college in Atlanta, Georgia. So I got a chance to see people and saw how much people are similar and how there are some differences.
Michael Moynihan
But did you have this feeling at the time that black people should not be conservative or can't be conservative because conservatism is antithetical to, you know, kind of. I don't. I don't want to say kind of that there's one ideology, but there is this sense for a very long time that black people should be liberals, should be Democrats, and black conservatives are sellouts. They're traitors, they're Uncle Tom's. You've heard it all before, right?
Walter Hudson
Just go to my social media. You'll see it all. So I was raised to think that Democrats were for the poor. Not so much this whole progressive liberal wing, right. Most black people are morally conservative. You find them in the church every Sunday.
Michael Moynihan
What do you think it is amongst black voters that are now drawing them to the Republican Party?
Walter Hudson
They like Trump.
Michael Moynihan
They like Trump.
Walter Hudson
So it's not supposed to party. They rock with Trump. And Trump, Trump connects because a lot of things, he lives his life. Black men respect the idea of power and being a boss and being a man. And you express those things. We have no choice but to respect where you stand on. I mean, I agree with you all the time, but as a man, you stand on what you believe on. We also, black men still like to be entrepreneurs. Now, here comes the party platform. How you go beyond just Trump, but they're drawn by Trump. They're not drawn to the Republican Party. They draw onto Trump.
Michael Moynihan
So they're not necessarily a new generation of young black conservatives or young black Republicans. They're people who love Donald Trump because of his personality.
Walter Hudson
Personality. But also now they cause, you know, every rapper back in the eighties and nineties talked about Trump all the time. He was the man. Everybody rocked with Trump. But now, as the president, now he, all of a sudden, he's a racist and a bigot. But you got him on your song, Tupac. You got him on your song biggie. What are you talking about?
Michael Moynihan
Do you think Donald Trump is a racist or has any racist instincts?
Walter Hudson
Hell, no. Hell, no. I think he's. I think he is what he is. He is. He is a businessman and didn't have a lot of political leanings until more recently. I think what you've seen, again, also, let me be clear for Republicans who are listening, don't pat ourself on the back too hard and saying that blacks are coming because of our policies. The democratic party has pushed blacks away because it has become too progressive, too liberal. Then are you pushing away black men? When you see a country of naturally born citizens and you see people who are here illegally, there's some type of field there that you're giving more help to illegals than you are black people right here.
Michael Moynihan
So immigration, illegal immigration is a big.
Walter Hudson
Issue from definitely black men, black men working construction, and just the idea of someone getting more help and support than the ones who've been trying to scratch and claw to get the help. I'm not against, most conservatives are not against my man, not against the idea of having programs to help, but they should help you. It shouldn't be a lifestyle. So black men feel slighted that you're helping other folk before you help us. You're forgiving them of their crimes, but you stick it into the black man on any other thing he do. And so I think now with Trump running, who has a very close connection to the black culture, recently been trumped up on charges. Every black man on the block of Milwaukee know what it means to be in an unfair case that the system has sacked against them. When Comey did what he did in Trump's first term, it woke up white people to how corrupt police can be. Black folk been doing that forever, that black, the cops can be corrupted and judges can, too. So now you have this opening of white folks say, well, wait a minute, maybe Bernie Fife ain't the best cop. Maybe it is some corruption in the judges. Like, yeah. And now Trump has fallen to the forefront, and now he's seen as the vehicle to say, we've been trying to tell white America this for years, that the system ain't always fair. Trump now could be that champion. You see, no matter how much money you got, you know, whatever youre prestige is, you get a no good judge, a no good attorney Da, and a biased jury. Anybody can be found guilty.
Michael Moynihan
Thank you, man. That was great. I really appreciate it. I thank you. First of all, tell me your name and tell me a little about yourself.
Walter Hudson
Walter Hudson.
Michael Moynihan
You're a politician, I take it, right?
Walter Hudson
As the state representative, first term member of the Minnesota House of Representatives. In Minnesota. In Minnesota, my occupation is to conceive of, consider, and vote upon the laws of the land.
Michael Moynihan
Liberals and Democrats have always presumed that they have a hammerlock on the black vote. It's ours. It's never going to change. It has changed, and it is moving towards Republicans and it's moving towards Republicans under Donald Trump, which baffles people. Give me a sense, when you come here to this convention, the reaction you get from people and why you think that it was Donald Trump, of all people, that has started to move black voters, particularly black male voters, towards the Republican Party.
Walter Hudson
Yeah. So I think there are a couple of big things. One is Trump's. And actually, they both fall in the same category. So Trump has had this ability to bring to light realities for the black community that have not previously been effectively translated to a republican audience, a republican based audience. So one example would be the economic situation. Dave Chappelle has this bit that he did on SNL where he talked about the moment that everything changed. And he points to the debate between Hillary Clinton and himself, where Hillary is trying to nail Trump on his taxes and taking advantage of the tax system. And Trump shrugs and goes, well, yeah, that's. Cause I'm smart. He's like, yeah, the system's corrupt. That's how I got to where I'm at. And that's why I understand how to fix it. Right. And that that moment was transformative because nobody from that socioeconomic status, with that level of platform, had ever acknowledged the man behind the curtain before. But the black guy on the street knew. Right. And so the audacity of just saying that, I think, is something that garnered a lot of respect. And then I think the persecution that what we as Republicans regard as the persecution of Donald Trump through all these legal cases that have been pursued against him, and, of course, these convictions that came out of New York, I think, or I don't think I've heard from members of the black community who say, see, we told you so. And what their point is is that the system is capable of, and given the right circumstances, will eagerly pursue getting you. If they want to get you, they will get you.
Michael Moynihan
You're in a republican district.
Walter Hudson
I'm in a republican district. I was endorsed as a Republican. I wasn't challenged in a primary. And so I think a lot of people didn't know what, didn't know or care what they were getting in terms of racial.
Michael Moynihan
Would you be offended? And I'm going to ask you a very blunt question. Would you be offended if the national party said, this guy is amazingly bright and he is winning in this district, and, you know, we need to attract black voters? Like, if they elevate you, do you ever get that sense that people are trying to elevate you in the party because you represent a racial group, which is kind of a not republican idea, but Republicans, of course, do it, too.
Walter Hudson
I have not gotten that since. In fact, I've been frustrated by the lack of intentionality in engaging with the black community. And I don't think it's not a malicious lack of intentionality. What it is is it's a risk aversion.
Michael Moynihan
So you think Republicans are bad at reaching out to black voters? Oh, horrible.
Walter Hudson
Horrible. Okay. And I'll tell you exactly why. I'll tell you exactly why. Cause I've been in this for a while as an activist in a comedy and helping different groups and different efforts at minority outreach and what have you. What I see Republicans doing in the form of minority outreach is a kind of prescriptive evangelism where their idea is, we need to go in there and tell them that this is the promised land and they should just support us. So knock on the door, hand them a brochure that features the benefits and pros of being republican and say, you should join us, and then walk onto the next door. That doesn't work. You actually have to be rather than prescriptive, you have to be inquisitive. What are you about, you start off, what's your story, right? Who are you? What do you care about? How are you not being served? And when you ask inquisitive questions with a sincere desire to know the answer, people won't stop talking. I'm sure you guys see that all the time.
Michael Moynihan
And do you think Donald Trump, the kind of MAGA wing of the Republican Party, is doing that, asking those questions?
Walter Hudson
I think it's clear that there are pockets of the party that are engaged in that. But it hasn't caught on, at least from what I'm seeing. It hasn't caught on kind of systemically throughout the party.
Michael Moynihan
Yet you don't think it's a racist party. It's just kind of a ham fisted party when it comes to electoral politics, with minorities, with black voters.
Walter Hudson
I think that it's a quality of both political parties to be stuck in ruts of inertia. Right. Like this has worked for us before, so let's do it again. Politics is one of the most risk averse businesses there is. You know, you're constantly being advised what not to say and where not to go. But if you're going to serve people, number one, and if you're going to grow a coalition, number two, then you have to be willing to take a risk to ask a question that you don't know the answer to, to be ready to be challenged on whatever preconception it is that you came in with. If you're not willing to do those things, you're not going to grow your coalitions and you're not going to actually serve the people who are your constituents. And by the way, I think that's a big part of the reason why the black community is so disenchanted with Democrats is because Democrats have been dangling carrots in front of them for so long, but not actually delivering because they have the same problem that Republicans have of just taking things for granted, not doing the actual work of listening to what people need and where they're at and who they are and what they care about and then delivering in terms of policy.
Michael Moynihan
Thanks, Benny. I really appreciate it.
Walter Hudson
Thank you.
Michael Moynihan
That's really good. By the end of the night, a few themes had started to emerge. Donald Trump's personality, the way he speaks, straightforward and often shocking language, was in no way a liability. Almost everyone I spoke to said they appreciated a politician who, in their words, told it like it is. And I met a mix of people who cared about conservative principles and identified as Republicans, but a bunch of others who didnt care about party politics and told me that they lived in cities where Democrats had ruled for years and failed them. As one person who didnt want to be interviewed told me, his city was blighted by crime and its services taxed by a wave of illegal immigrants. When I asked him if Donald Trump had a solution to these problems, he simply said, I know that the Democrats dont, and it couldnt get much worse than it is now. Thank you for listening. If you liked this episode, if it made you think differently about who makes up the republican coalition, then share it with your friends and family. And if you want to support honestly, theres just one way to do that. Go to thefp.com and become a subscriber today. See you next time.