Bari and Nellie Are Having Another Baby-and They Have Questions!

Speaker A
This is the moment I get the power. The bachelorette is back. And the power I'm gonna fall in. Love is in Jen's hands, and I'm. Gonna do it my way.

Speaker B
ABC tonight. Everything about her is great. I feel so special. Jen's looking like a queen. My men are very, very hot.

Speaker D
Someone call 911. You are looking so fired. This is the beginning of a new era. The Bachelorette season premiere tonight, 87 Central. On ABC and stream on Hulu.

Speaker B
I'm Berry Weiss. This is honestly, and today I am very excited to be joined by the one, the only, my wife, Nellie Bowles. Say hi now. Hi. Well, she's here with me today because we're having a baby.

And by we, I mean she. Thank you. Because there's not gonna be any stolen valley here. And it's like any day now, like. Any day, like it could be right now during this recording.

Not that we have a tub here ready to do a water birth. And it's not only that we're having a baby, it's that we're having a another baby. And if I'm honest, I'm nervous about what life is going to look like going from one kid to two kids, because every parent I trust tells me that that's actually the transition. So we thought we would do something kind of special today, which is call the experts. And by experts, we don't mean the people cited in the medical journals or the people with names on the COVID of parenting books.

We mean our favorite parents, people that we look up to to give us some advice before we become a family of four. The thing I keep thinking about, but is this Instagram reel that I see all the time that says that when a child under the age of three gets a new sibling, it is as traumatic to your child as just actually abandoning your child, because that's how selfish and narcissistic and intense toddlers are. I mean, not ours. No, no, of course not ours. Of course not ours.

Speaker E
But other toddlers, other friends, toddlers, I don't know. Other toddlers I've heard of, they're probably dealing with that. Maybe other people are having second children now. So in a way, this is a very selfish podcast. We need advice.

Speaker B
But we're hoping that you guys might get a lot from this, too. Whether you have one kid going to two, maybe you have four, you're going to five, maybe you're thinking about having kids, or maybe you're just thinking about all of that unresolved childhood trauma that comes from having new babies foisted onto you every time you turned around. Not that I'm speaking personally or anything. It does make sense now when I think of bear as the oldest of four. So should we call up our first parent?

Let's do it.

Bethany Mandel, welcome to honestly, thank you. For having me, ladies. So you're the mother of six children, which is an ungodly amount of children or godly. It's a regulation basketball team with an alternate. Okay.

So the question I'm sure everyone asks you all the time when they see you schlepping around these kids in a car that you will need to describe to us, they probably ask you the question I'm going to ask you now, which is, are you done or are there going to be more? So we were done. We were done at five because of our car, actually. We had a Honda odyssey that was maxed out at seven. And I liked our Honda Odyssey.

Speaker D
And then God had other plans, and so then we had a 6th. And thank God we had a 6th because he is the best. Like, in rankings, he is actually the best one. No, actually, my fifth is currently the best. So you do have favorites.

I do have favorites. My dog, on the other hand, sorry, Seth, is chasing him and yelling at him. Okay, so my question is, how much do you think birth order determines who these kids are? Like, you've now seen six kids. How much does bear being an oldest sister or me being a sort of messy middle in a lot of steps and halves?

Speaker E
How much does this determine our personalities? So I will push back on bear 100%, actually, on this idea that you were traumatized by having children. I'm sorry. Your sisters are the biggest blessing in your life. I only know.

Speaker B
Oh, no, no, no. I fully. No. To be. To clear off the record, yes.

Fully and profoundly and deeply agree with that. All I was trying to say there is that I think that there is something profound about birth order. And I feel, I mean, maybe I'm wrong and maybe this is actually an expression of being an oldest child, that I even have the hubris to suggest this, but, like, I can smell birth order on people. I know I can smell an oldest, I can smell a youngest, and I can smell a middle. Do you think that's bullshit or do you think that there's something to it?

And how does birth order play out among your children? I don't really have a birth order because there's not. There's too many children to be in the middle or be so. But I can tell you my oldest child is peak oldest child, and she is just like you. She takes control.

Speaker D
She knows what's up. She is very controlling, and she is so conscientious of everyone around her, taking care of everyone, making sure everyone has everything they need. So she is, for sure, an oldest child. And I think it's a huge blessing. And by the way, you're very lucky to have a girl as your oldest child because she is a helper.

Also, if my boys were my oldest, I would be not having six children. How did you make sure that your kids didn't feel abandoned when a new one came on the scene? How do we make sure that our daughter doesn't feel abandoned? So I think it's a lot of messaging. This is our baby.

This isn't mommy's baby and daddy's baby or whatever. This was our collective baby. As a family, this is all of our responsibility. But then on, like, a day to day level, if there's two children crying, which there always are, I always go to the older one first because they have the memory and they will hold it against you. My newborn will never remember if I left her crying on the floor for five minutes when there was a band aid that had to be put on the two year old.

I always, always, always went to the two year old first, unless there was, like, crisis point, because I didn't want the toddler to feel resentful. My pediatrician, so smart, and my pediatrician gave me the best advice ever when we had our second. Our first and our second are 17 months apart, and he said, the most dangerous thing to your baby is your toddler. Whoa. And so I always kept that in mind, and it's true.

And I am extremely cognizant of setting boundaries on physical safety. And so I've had a couple instances where kids have purposefully or accidentally been really, really rough on a newborn. My oldest daughter hit her baby brother when he was, like, a day and a half old with a book. And it was really scary. She hit him really, really hard.

But the corner of the book on his head, the soft spot, was not far away, and I flipped out. That postpartum. You're a crazy person. I did that on her. 17 months old.

Not something I would like, super recommend doing for therapy reasons. But I put the fear of God in her, and she never did it again. What did you say? I can't say it on camera. Called on me.

It was just psychotic postpartum screaming. So many expletives, so loud. I had never spoken to her that way before, and I don't think I've ever spoken to a child that way since. It was just like this postpartum rage, but at a one and a half year old, but she never remembered it. One thing that I think a lot about is with my youngest sister, who's like 1112 years younger than me, I had a sense that she was mine because she was so significantly younger.

Speaker B
In our case, kind of like you. They're gonna be less than two years apart. How do we make sure that our daughter feels like a participant? Is that possible? What are some strategies that you would give us for that?

Speaker D
So I would have her participate in as much as you possibly can without making her feel like she's being given jobs. So make a diaper change into an experience. Like, okay, we're all going to do this together. I need you to take out a wipe. For me.

Taking out a wipe is a very exciting thing for a 20 month old. And so it's going to be excruciating, it's going to be excruciating, and you will almost certainly get urinated on, but, so make sure you don't open the diaper until, you know. But, like, one wipe at a time. And then can you open this side? Can you open this side?

And the same with, like, nursing and everything. Mommy needs water. Can you fill this up? She loved filling up cups. That's really fun.

Like, trying to make it as participatory as possible, but then also having the other parent have special time with her so that she feels like she's having her emotional needs scratched. She's already latched onto bear as, like, the primary parent. She can see the pregnancy, and she knows that I'm abandoning her. On some level, it's gonna be really hard. Like, I'm not gonna lie to you.

The hardest part of every single baby, almost entirely was the previous child before that. And our 6th child was really hard because our fourth had broken her arm the night before. And so that was really, really bad. And then we had a 17 month old, and then we had a newborn, and I, like, truly almost had a nervous breakdown. Bethany.

It was really, really bad. I'm sweating just hearing this. It was so awful. Don't do that. Don't let her break her arm the night before.

Speaker E
Okay, what about, how do we make sure that our oldest doesn't get that sort of oldest child bossy, sort of ruler of the house energy unrelated to who I'm sitting next to? I mean, no, but, like, tangibly, specifically, I want to know how to make sure she doesn't start a media company and drag our family through any of. This again, I can't promise. I don't know. I wish I had an answer to that.

Speaker D
My oldest daughter also wants to. She wants to be an entomologist, and she wants to work on Capitol Hill. That's a new one, because she spent so much time on the hill recently. She wants to be a doctor. She wants to have seven children because she wants to beat me.

So she has to have one more child. No, I mean, I think there's no changing that. We constantly are asking her to stop micromanaging our lives, but she's really, actually very good at it, and so she's really, really helpful. She helped us pick out our couch. I don't know what I would do without her at this point.

So maybe just lean into it. Do you, like, send her to whole foods on her own? Kind of do. And do you think that her personality is the result of being the oldest of six or it was just baked in from day one? I mean, we'll never know.

Cause she was 17 months old when her brother was born. But she is the boss of the whole house. Like, we are just her subjects, and I just. I think you should lean into it. Just let her take over.

She's probably going to be very effective, and I don't see anything wrong with it. Do you look at us, people who are freaking out about having a second kid and just think, this is so pathetic. Like, this is so easy. You guys are like, no, not at all. Really weak.

I remember so vividly when I had my second, I dropped my oldest off at. So I'm an only child. So I don't know from siblings from. And this is why, by the way, I had six kids, because I'm an only child. But I remember so vividly dropping her at my sister in law's house to go to the hospital to give birth.

I was sobbing. I felt so bad that I was doing this to her. And I remember when I was a kid, one of my friends parents wrote in the yearbook, like, a salutation, whatever, for her son, who was graduating, and he was born on Valentine's Day. And she said, on that day, my heart just started, moved, migrate to outside of my body. And I always felt that way.

And I thought about that visual a lot, and I thought that, like, that love would just split in half and I would be giving her half the amount of love. And I realized that I'm actually just growing a second heart, and I love them equally, and. And I don't like them equally. All the time, but I love them equally.

Speaker B
Bethany, as I tell you all the time, basically, Nelli and I have two influencers. One's ballerina farm and one is Bethany Mandel. And the reason is like every, look, I know it's social media and Instagram, but every image I see of you and your kids is not only very real, like genuinely real, not fake real, but also that you seem to have just a really happy family culture. What are some tips you can give to me and Nelly is I feel like we're obviously, we're a family. Obviously we already have a kid, but I feel like we're like really stepping into the big leagues now.

What are some tips you can give us? What is working so well in the Mandel family culture that we can learn? That is so sweet. I mean, I think, I really try to, I mean, two things, an expectation of behavior. I am not into this gentle parenting stuff.

Speaker D
Like, there is an expectation of behavior. You have to treat everyone around you with love, kindness and respect. And if that's not happening, I will not countenance it. And there are like very clear boundaries of behavior and so, like, having tantrums is not acceptable. And screaming and fighting, like, of course that happens, but like, I do not give in.

Speaker E
Not at all. No. If you're screaming on the ground, I've done this in trader Joe's. I once I had a kid fall on the floor screaming and crying in Trader Joe's and I walked away from her. I knew where she was.

Speaker D
I could hear her. I was in the aisle next. And people lost their minds. I'm like, I know where she is, but she will not be getting what she wants now. That's it.

I'm done. And she can meet me at the end of this aisle. And I told her that she was like three and a half. She was old enough where she understood what I was saying. And there were, it was like Trader Joe's had two very different opinions on that parenting choice.

There were some who thought I was a monster and some that were like, yeah. And I had like multiple people walk up to me and like share their opinion on that parenting choice. That is so funny. Yeah. My mom, who we are gonna be talking to at some point in this episode.

Speaker B
I was with my second sister at Disneylander World and we were fighting at a pool and she left us at the pool. Good. She literally, I mean, I'm sure she was like there somewhere, but we felt like we had been abandoned, left by our mom in a strange place and we snapped to it right after that because we thought we had literally been abandoned. Yeah, no, that's what I do. 100%.

Speaker D
100%. I totally support that parenting decision by misses Weiss. But the other thing is, like I always say, I bring them on trips everywhere. I've been traveling with them the whole time they've been around. And I always say to them, this only works because you make it work and it's praising them.

But it's also saying, like, this is contingent upon your cooperation. And I believe in child raising as dog training. And so I effusively praise positive behavior, like, over the top, and I ignore bad behavior. You will not get my attention. You will not.

I mean, I will discipline it, but I'm not feeding into this negative loop. But my kids crave attention and so I give it for positive stuff. And that works very well. And I'm not going to tell you that, like, my kids don't fight and, like, there's not like, constant battles, but it works very well. This is really good advice.

Speaker B
These ten minutes are more effective than ten parenting books that we've read recently. All I do is consume parenting books. I've never read a parenting book. What? Not one?

Speaker E
You just know how to do it magically on your own? No. So my mom, my mom was a really, really good mom. I really liked her a lot. And I won't do the traumatic things that she did.

Speaker D
Have sex while I have a sleepover. I will not have sex while my children are having a sleepover. Well, my actual parenting advice comes mostly from a great website called Reddit.com. and I just search for whatever weird new behavior I observe and then I see what they say on Reddit. So you know what I think your problem is?

Speaker E
Oh, I've got a lot. I think you're overthinking it. I never had the opportunity to overthink it because I kept on having babies so, so, so quickly. You had no time, no inner model. No time to analyze.

Speaker D
Yeah. I was just like, we're in survive. Yeah. We're in triage all the time. Okay.

Speaker E
I want to get deep into Reddit parenting and other parenting advice, but my producers here are pinging me. They're saying we're on a tight schedule, and now I have to call up Elon gold and his wife Sasha to ask them if our marriage will survive. So, Bethany, thank you so much for coming on and for this advice and for sharing and being so open. Thank you so much.

Speaker B
Elan gold and your much better half, Sasha, who's joining us on the line today, but doesn't want to talk at all, so listeners won't hear her. I promise. She is the silent partner and the better one in the relationship. Welcome to honestly, this is very exciting. First of all, you both are our favorite guests at the Shabbat table.

Speaker E
Cause we never leave. You guys are on your own frequency. No, you're just your own thing. What Elon means by that is we bring nothing. We show up late.

Speaker A
You bring nothing. Not even a bottle of wine. We show up with our child. My presence is a present. Brandon, my son, my oldest, Brandon.

Sasha's just chiming in now, saying they're my favorite. Well, I want to know why your marriage. How? I mean, from the outside, at least, it looks so good and perfect and loving. And there's an Emily Oster quote.

Speaker E
I'm obsessed with her. And she says things are, on average, systematically worse in marriage after kids. The marriage does not recover until parents become grandparents. Now, you have four kids, and they're great kids, and you have this happy marriage. So get into that with us.

What's going on there? How'd you do that? Well, first of all, we celebrated 30 years two weeks ago. Wow, elon. Wow.

Speaker A
I attribute it to a few things, one of which, high school sweethearts. You know, being high school sweethearts and growing up together, it's a big deal. That's an unfair advantage. Okay. We've established.

Speaker E
Yeah. Yeah. Also, we're both virgins. That's what I call ourselves. We are.

Speaker A
This is actually true. We're both virgins. You say, but you have four kids. Virgins to the world, not to each other. And that's also something very special and very unique.

Speaker B
There's a lot of writing, actually, about the difference between a merger marriage and a startup marriage. And Nelli and I would say we're a merger. A successful merger and a merger. We were formed adults. I was 29.

Speaker E
Getting some wrinkles already. Yeah. And basically a child bride in today's terms. But you and Sasha were like a startup. You grew up together.

Speaker B
But I guess the thing I'm always struck by when I'm around you. And the reason we wanted to invite you on this special episode is because I was sitting thinking, like, what marriages do, I admire. And I really admire you and Sasha, in part because you just seem to have so much fun together all the time. Like, it's just like a laugh riot constantly. It's like you go over to the golds, and it's just like the party never stops.

Speaker A
And, yeah, fun is the key. Fun is such an important word, you know, fun, family, all that stuff. I always say that my top three of just how to live my life, it's just God, family comedy, that's number one, two and three. And the only reason I put God before family, because family is everything to me, is because God gave me family. You know what I mean?

So I have to give that shout out to the big guy. But, you know, I thought about this when you asked me, because, again, we're not model parents. We're not modeled husband and wife. We have our spats and all that stuff. But when I thought about, why are my kids always complimented the one word?

Are you ready for this? We already touched on it. Shabbos. Wow. Shabbat.

The fact that we have one day a week, every week, and if you think about it, it's two days a week. It's like Friday and Saturday. That's a big part of life. That's almost. Yeah, but 20% of life is just us with no phones, with no driving anywhere, with no tv, no Netflix, no streaming, no nothing.

I call it connecting. By disconnecting, we are connecting, and we're having fun, and we're talking and we're laughing. And I know that having grown up with Shabbat and also in my family, you know, it was me, my younger brother, my older brother, my parents, and the same thing every Shabbat was family fun time. And the things that you can do, from playing ping pong together to just eating, talking, laughing, taking walks, whatever it is, when you have that family time and you're not going on a fun trip to Europe, you don't need that. You don't need the money, you don't need anything but each other.

And this momentary break in time where there's no work and there's no nothing. You may remember that a few years ago, famous literary couple Michael Shaban and Ayelet Waldman, she writes an essay talking about how as much as she loves her children, and she loves her children, she loves her husband more. And it was one of those kind of like, tiger mom, like a lightning rod essay, where a lot of people were like, that's terrible. And then other people quietly were like, actually, maybe that's the key to a happy marriage. So maybe Ilana put that question to you, like, is it true?

Speaker B
Do you like Sasha more than your kids? No. Me and Sasha will both admit we love our kids more than each other. But my mother will also admit she loves her husband more than us. Okay, another question just about marriage, because I want to make sure we hit on this.

Some people say that kids come along and it just puts a huge strain on the marriage. Right. You don't have time for each other. You don't have attention. You don't go on dates.

Somehow, you guys, 30 years in, not only have you kept it together, you seem like you're really loving it. So what are some tips, like brass tacks? Brass taxes. NeLli and I get ready to go from one to two. What are some practical things that you and Sasha do in your lives to make sure your marriage is successful?

Speaker A
A lot of people, I bet you answer that with, well, we have our date night once a week, you know, like. And all those, like, cliche answers. The truth is. I don't have the answer. The truth is it will get messy and ugly in those first few years where all you're doing and focusing on is raising those babies and you can't focus on each other.

Yes, you have to make time for each other. But there is no answer. There's no like, well, what we did was. No, there were some rough patches where we felt like our relationship is taking a hit for the benefit of these kids. And sometimes it has to do that.

You know, there's so much to discuss and it's a. I have a short segment here, but I heard your parents talking and your mom told that great story about how, you know, she brought your sister home. I remember Sasha feeling this unbelievable guilt that now there's a second it was guilt that she was crying over it. Because imagine spending three years doting on every 2nd 25 hours a day with this one baby and two year old, three year old, and then all of a sudden it's like, move over, kid. There's another one feeling of guilt and how badly she felt for her oldest.

She felt terrible. But again, what's the answer to that? There isn't one. Just deal with it and then try to balance and try to give some attention to the oldest one, even though you have to give most of your attention to the baby. So it's the same with couples versus children.

You have to give most of your attention to the children, but just make the effort, do whatever you can. But there are certainly no answers. This has all been well and good. Your family is perfect. Your marriage is perfect.

Speaker E
We understand. We understand. We get it. No, my question is, is there a marriage that you've seen fall apart in part because of the pressure of kids and the obligations and the stress? Have you seen that?

And what lessons would you draw from that? Or what lessons did you draw watching that. Absolutely. I've seen that with close friends who are divorced, and then kids came into the picture, and they just couldn't handle it. They just couldn't handle it.

Speaker A
But, you know, who am I to give advice on how to make a family work? I think it really comes down to values and keeping your traditions, whatever they may be. You don't have to be jewish to have a good family or good kids. If you don't have a Shabbat, figure out what your Shabbat is. But there is nothing that I could point to that.

Oh, this is what made them fall apart. This is what made, you know, it's like, there's so many reasons for marriages that don't work, from the cheating to the kids to the, you know, there's so many reasons. But for me, if you make God and family the priority and then work, then you can avoid that. You know, it's like, I have a joke. I just bought this ring for my 30th.

We bought matching rings, right? But before, I wasn't wearing a ring for a while. And the joke in my act is, I say I don't wear a wedding ring because if I wear a ring, if I advertise that I'm married, how am I ever going to find my soulmate?

But that is. That's obviously a joke because I'm one of the lucky few, as are you two, who did find your soulmate. So you're asking about what happens when a marriage doesn't work. Well, maybe they didn't find their soulmate. My best friend's soulmate was his second wife, and they've been together for 20 something years.

But his first wife, they weren't meant to be together. And they had two beautiful kids, and they're thrilled, and the kids are brilliant and amazing, but they weren't meant to be together. You have to have that. Meant to be that basher. We can.

Speaker B
Elon, elon, do you believe in soul mate? Do you think there's only one soulmate out there for each of us? Oh, I don't know how many there are, and I'm looking for my next one. But no, but seriously, I absolutely believe in soul mates. And when I met Sasha, I was 15 years old.

Speaker A
It was the eve of my 16th birthday. It was at a sweet 16. And I talked to her for 3 hours at this sweet 16, and she left. And I turned to my friend Leon Lowenstein, and I said, I'm gonna marry that girl because it was divine. It was a divine providence that just.

God said, oh, that's her. There's your soulmate. You're welcome. And so that does. That's not everybody's experience.

That's why I'm saying even attempting to give advice on marriage or parenting is foolish. It's like giving advice on health. Well, you have to do genetic testing before I could tell you what is going to be your issue in health. And there are so many factors that you can't control, but the ones you can control, control them. Control the factors you can.

Like again, we'll go back to Shabbat. And the last thing I'll say about Shabbat, there's this other beautiful tradition that we do every Friday night. You've watched it. You've witnessed it. I bless all four of my children.

I put my hands over their heads, and I say this short blessing for each of them. When I do that, there is a stillness in them that you can feel. It's palpable. They feel this energy force of not just God blessing them, but of their dad just showing love and affection and just showering them with blessings and comfort and safety in that moment that you could tell they cherish these blessings. So just, you gotta find what you do that connects you to your kids.

You just gotta find that. And let me give you one piece of advice, both of you, and I give this to everybody. Are you ready for this? Yeah, we're ready. Elon, it's three words.

Cherish, savor, and, well, revel or relish or whatever you want. But I'm gonna tell you right now that everyone, now my kids are older. They're 23 and 20. You have a little kid and one on the way. Everyone's gonna tell you this, and you're not gonna listen to anybody.

They're going to say, it goes by like that. They're going to snap their fingers. You're going to get that advice from a lot of people, because I did. Almost every year, someone came over and go, oh, enjoy it. Cherish it.

Because like that. And when you're in the thick of it, you're like. Like that. Every second is an eternity. This is torture.

I got diapers and this. It's hell, actually. And it's in. Life is actually in slow motion when you have little kids, and every second is an eternity. Guess what?

I'm in the. That moment. Two of my kids have left the house already. You know, college and whatever. So it's like.

And when they leave, you go, how could you leave me? I did everything for you. I made you. I raised you. How could you leave me.

But more importantly, I'm saying to myself, I can't believe that I didn't listen to people and I didn't savor. Savor is another good one. I didn't savor every moment. Cause everything is fleeting. Life is so fleeting.

And I'm at the worst age right now where both my kids and parents are leaving me. If you think about it, my kids are leaving my house, and my parents, they're in their late eighties. God willing, they live til 120, but they're leaving me. And it's very hard to cope with that because all I know for 53 years, or at least the last 23 years, is having children and parents, and it's everything to me. And now they're all leaving me.

So this is like a rough time. This, to me, is what a midlife crisis about. Not, hey, I gotta go get laid or get a fancy car, whatever. To me, a midlife crisis is everyone's leaving you. It's crazy.

And how you cope with that and deal with that is for another podcast. Well, in the end, though, you'll be left with Sasha. Sasha. And that's all I really need. Sasha and you two, every other Friday night.

Speaker B
Elon gold, you're the greatest. Thanks for coming on, honestly. Thank you. And I didn't cry. You made Jerry cry.

Speaker A
And he's emotionless. I didn't cry. Wait, Elon, do you want to leave us with an impression? You know, you guys, you're doing so well, and you look at all these podcasts, and they're not doing very well. They're total disaster.

They're doing horrible. And then Barry and Nelly, I think they probably have a better podcast than anyone. And how many podcasts are there? What? 17 trillion gazillion podcasts.

And I think they've got the best. And why is it the best? Because they have me on elongold.com core. Come see me live. Follow me on Instagram.

I love you all. We love you. Bye, guys. That was fun.

Speaker B
After the break, my parents tell us how having kids gives life meaning, why you have to be selfless to raise kids, and what a wooden spoon has to do with it all. Stay with us.

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Need to hire you. Need indeed. Hey guys, Josh Hammer here, the host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer, a podcast for the first podcast network. Look, there are a lot of shows out there that are explaining the political news cycle, what's happening on the hill, to this, to that. There are no other shows that are cutting straight to the point when it comes to the unprecedented law fair, debilitating and affecting the 2024 presidential election.

We do all of that every single day right here on America on trial with Josh Hammer. Subscribe and download your episodes wherever you get your podcast. It's America on trial with Josh Hammer. Amy and Lou Weiss, welcome to honestly. For those who don't know, these are Barry's parents.

Speaker E
Ok, so guys, you have four kids. In fact, four girls, which in today's world is unfathomable. But the reason bear and I wanted to talk to you is not why you had so many children. I mean, I always assumed it was because you were trying for a boy, but because we want to know, reflecting on your life, what was the best thing about having kids? What are kids for other than obviously creating the best woman in the world?

My wife's younger sister, Susie Weissenhe. But if you had to answer, what are kids for? Well, Nellie, at this age, I would say the best thing about having four daughters, there's always someone to go find your phone and your glasses, because you know what? They're always lost.

Amy Weiss
I'd like to claw Susie back from New York City and just have her work remotely in Pittsburgh here to continue servicing me in terms of my glasses, my phone, my iPad, and also very, very helpful with technical problems like we had today. Couldn't even get this thing to download. How do you download? Okay, so for mom, this is a very mom answer, extremely utilitarian and practical. Dad?

Speaker B
Yes, I suspect you'll have slightly different view. What. What's the point of having kids? I don't know that there really is a point. I mean, it's the number one commandment in the Torah, you know, to be fruitful and multiply, and it's, you know, just kind of, uh.

Lou Weiss
Maybe it's an ego thing. You want to just, you know, reproduce yourself. I'm not sure exactly, but, uh, entertainment, we just kind of did it. Entertainment to an extent. Mild.

Mild torture. I don't know. It's. You know, it's just something we did. I mean, my parents had us, and we had you, and there you go.

Speaker B
But a lot of people these days don't have kids, whether because they're scared of climate change or they think it's too hard. I mean, there's a lot of people. There's a lot of sort of, like, things that I now look back on that you and mom did with apparent ease now seems totally crazy to people. Like the idea of having four kids and working two full time jobs. So do you think about having children in the Elon Musk way?

Like, we have an obligation to have children because human beings are good for the world, or did you just kind of do it? I think having kids just gives meaning to what your life is all about. It fills your life up to the brim. And I know that sounds little traitor or expected, but it does. It's the house.

Amy Weiss
Do you explain the decision to have kids? It fills your life up. It makes life much more rewarding. It's not always easy, but it's so much fun. Do you guys think that there are certain people who shouldn't have children?

I think you have to be the kind of person that is unselfish. If you're really a very selfish person. I don't think having kids is such a great idea because it is the most humbling job you will ever do in your entire life. I think having kids, you have to be willing to give up so much. I mean, we'd have a lot of money right now if we didn't have four kids.

Think of all if you've been able to buy a Birkin bag or something like that. No. No Birkin bag for me. But if Birkin stocks. But if you had to trade one for a Birkin, which would you pick?

I could get a Birkin strap, maybe a little strap or something. But, you know, you have to be selfless. You have to really be not a selfish person. You now have adult kids, and dad always likes to say, you know, little kids, little problems. Big kids, big problems.

Speaker B
But maybe let's ask that in the reverse, like, you know, the joy of having kids, which we're really. I'm experiencing, I would say right now, like, more and more and more. I'm not a newborn person. I love her, but now I feel like my love is just exploding and it's so much fun. It's getting more and more joyful.

Speaker E
You know, I liked her when she was a little more docile. Like, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. Is it also, like, does the joy of having kids wax and wane over time? Is there when you kind of look back on raising all of us? Is there a time that was a peak experience for you guys?

Lou Weiss
My peak experiences for me were different oddball times. I just see you guys flowering in your own way and it happens at all different ages when you're doing fulfilling your best self for you guys, that would always be very exciting for me. I think more so as you get older, actually, I think when you're young, you start with sippy cup and a sippy cup is great. It really is. And starting to walk.

Amy Weiss
Love that. But I feel those things are things that are going to happen. God willing. You have a child that's able to do those things normally and keep moving on. But I think when they have control over their decision making and they're making these fantastic decisions and doing things that make a parent proud, I think as you get older, it's more rewarding and more exciting because you see all the work you put into it.

Now they're making decisions. You have to know when to let go and when you've let go and they're on the right track and doing all these fabulous things out in the world, that's the most rewarding part of being a parent to me. Now that I'm a parent myself, I'm sort of amazed by the amount of things you guys did to give us a sense that we were part of a certain family culture and that we upheld a certain kind of values and we had to be a certain way in the world. And like inside the company we're trying to build a culture, and inside family, we're trying to build a culture. And these are like very hard things to do.

Speaker E
We've started doing a cheer as a family as part of Bear's effort towards team family, team building. But no, it's amazing. It's amazing. And she loves it. And I'm wondering where I love it now.

I want to start doing it like after breakfast. You know what? I'm sorry. I think routine is what that's all about. And I think kids love routine because they can lean on it and it's dependable.

Amy Weiss
And when kids don't have routine and it's not dependable and everything's sort of scattered, it's much harder, I think, to grow up, I think having those routines and every day sort of the same things. Listen, you want to add a little fun and surprise? Like we would have the ice cream socials. You never knew those were coming. I would ring a bell at night and like 10:00 at night on a school night, and they would come running downstairs and we would have an ice cream social.

So this work routine, you have to throw that excitement and that fun in there once in a while. But I think dependability. Going to synagogue every Saturday. Dad took you every Saturday. I was home in bed.

But I think having that, Amy's letting. It all hang out. And they even had a cheer when they got to Seoul. You know, there was a family cheer with the girls and Lou, you know, and I think just knowing that would happen, that rotation, I think is good. There were so many things.

Speaker B
I mean, I think about you guys constantly. Always. And I feel, yes, I do. But especially I think about you sometimes. Well, now that we have.

Lou Weiss
Can you get belly thinking about us a little bit more, please? Yeah, I will. No, but now that we're parents, I think about how much work it is to like inculcate. Let me give an example, maybe to explain what I'm talking about. I remember dad, one time we went to the manor movie theater in Squirrel Hill and I had just turned 13 and the price for a kid's ticket was twelve and under, but they didn't check and they gave us the kids price.

Speaker B
And I remember going through into the movie theater and we were going to get popcorn or whatever and I said, isn't that awesome? They charged us for me as a twelve year old, even though I'm 13 now. You probably have no recollection of this. Do you remember what you did? I would say your dad went back and gave him the extra money knowing your dad.

Exactly. And you took me back around and you weren't shaming me. But you were saying, this is what we do. We are honorable and we always pay the full amount and we always do. We don't steal really is what you were trying to tell me.

Lou Weiss
Basically. I think you might have even said that. There are so many examples like that. Of times when my family we'd call that a deal?

Speaker E
Happy for you, wises. Hey, Nell. Mine too. Growing up, my memories of childhood is that whenever we'd go to Chevy's, the Tex Mex chain, we would pretend it was my birthday because they'd bring over a giant hat and sing a song, and I think I'd get a dessert. So, you know, every family's different and all are good now.

Amy Weiss
They did a pretty good job on you. Now, they didn't make you limp so you could get to the front of the line at the Disney rides, did they?

Speaker B
No, but they definitely did that in mom's family growing up, let's be honest, not full wheelchair. That's 100% for my mom. My dad might have said, you know what? Okay, not. But my mom insisted.

Lou Weiss
And, you know, and it trickles down. It's little things. But when you were doing it, I guess I'm wondering now in the parental role, like, there are times when you just want to do the easier thing and you have to sort of really make an effort to think, how do we want to be? Like, how do we want to, what are the values we want to inculcate in our kidney in those moments? Dad, was it just intuitive?

Speaker B
Like, we spoke to Bethany Mandel as part of this conversation, and Bethany was saying, I've never read a parenting book. It was completely intuitive. To leave my kids screaming in a trader Joe's for you, was it intuition or was it, was it really intentional? Dad, I'm answering for that because dad wanted to make everything into a lesson. Mom wanted to have fun.

Amy Weiss
Dad wanted to make lessons. He wanted you to remember that at the manor theater when you were twelve years old, that you don't pay for a ticket saying you're twelve when you're 13. I mean, everything was a life lesson. And I think it worked. Didn't mention Doctor Dobson, my favorite childhood.

Lou Weiss
I mean, Bethany never read books, but I read child. Your mother didn't, but I read child rearing books. I had a series of women that came into my store and their kids were all unbelievably well behaved. And I said, what is it? Why are you kids, why are your kids so great?

And the one woman said, I have a wooden spoon in my purse. Which is true. And this is from Doctor Dobson's book, dare to discipline. Which basically, and it's the same thing at the beginning of Doctor Spock, is if you have a child, a child cannot push off into the lake from a moving dock. They need a firm dock in order to shove off.

And so basically your mother and I were that firm dock so you guys could shove off from. And, you know, and it takes. Sometimes it's going to pay the full price for the movie, and sometimes it's going to synagogue every week and showing that kind of discipline. But. But I never gave a potch.

Speaker B
Never. You never did? No. I'm sorry. Your mother.

Lou Weiss
Your mother used psychological warfare. One last thing I wanted to ask, which is, do you remember the moment and just how it felt when you brought home your second child, your second daughter, Casey? I do. I was very attentive towards Casey and over the moon to bring Casey home and introduce her to Barry. But as soon as we walked in the door, no matter what the older sister, the older sibling does, your heart sort of sinks because you realize that no matter how you do that, no matter how you introduce that baby, for a very brief amount of time, you're gonna.

Amy Weiss
You feel as if you're ruining your first child's life, and in the end, you're not. You're clearly not. It makes the most sense. You really want to make their life, you know, with a sibling more full and content and everything else, but it's very, very hard at first. And it's probably not as hard for the child as it is for the parents to see it because you have all these things going through your head, like, look what we're doing, you know?

But that's what I remember. I can't help it. Dad. Do you remember it that way? I actually don't.

Lou Weiss
I can't remember much at this point.

Speaker E
Guys, can you imagine if you had raised Barry Weiss as an only child? I think Mussolini, I think, was maybe an early child.

This has been Amy and Lou Weiss. This has been such a pleasure to have you guys on. And we should say we look forward to the free childcare they will be providing when they fly out here at the birth of our next child. We expect you here for two to three months, and you give me that call. I will be out in a second.

Speaker B
I love you. Love you guys. Be well. I love you.

Mary Kathryn Hamm, welcome to honestly, thank you so much. Well, in addition to being an amazing person, you are also a mother of four kids. You have three girls and a boy. And we wanted to talk to you today about a question we could not ask my parents about, given that they have for girls and that is raising a boy, because the assigned gender at birth of the child currently baking inside of Nellie Bowles is a boy. And, well, we don't have any boys in our house.

Speaker C
Well, first of all, I love having this conversation with you two, because in any other forum, almost, I'd be like, is everything I'm saying problematic? But we're just gonna have thoughts, and it's gonna be okay. So I appreciate that. Yeah. So I'm a little new to boy momming.

I had a thoroughly girl mom household, three girls, and then my fourth is a boy, and he's about 18 months old now. But I came from a boy heavy household, so I grew up with two brothers. And I know this is not how hash science works, but in my head, in my head, before I had children, I was sure I would have all boysenhe. I was like, that's what I'm cut out for. And then, lo and behold, surprises awaited me.

And then my first girl, especially, ended up being the girliest girl. And I'm here, like, soccer chick tomboy. Like, what is happening with the princess thing? But that's the thing about all of this and parenting is that you have to allow them to surprise you. Right?

And I learned that very quickly with my first, because she's very different from me when it comes to boys versus girls. Again, I want to just allow them to become who they are and to surprise me. And also, you can see, like, pretty clearly some differences in the early going. For instance, I think the most boy trait of my boy is that if he is upset, if he's fussy, our remedy is to hit him with a pillow. Stop it.

No, because aggression makes him happier. Like, it's. Like, it triggers something that it didn't trigger for the girls. If the girls were upset, and one of them is, you know, very spicy. Nonetheless, if she were upset and I hit her with a pillow, she'd be like, what are you doing?

Why would you do that to me? I'm upset. But he goes the other direction. He starts giggling, he wants to engage, and he wants to fight back with me. That's amazing.

Speaker B
How did you figure? Amazing tip and trick right there. How did you figure that out? I think it was just trial and error. I hit all my children with pillows on the regular.

Speaker C
So, you know, you gotta figure out how they react. He was the first one who responded positively. Yes. Yes. So that's my early going thing that I've noticed, is that that part of him does seem different from the girls.

Speaker E
How else are they different? Tell me more things. I mean, we worked obviously very hard to keep our home a male free home, and so now I feel nervous. About having a boy. Like, coming from an only girl household.

Speaker B
I'm nervous. I feel nervous in a way that I did not with our daughter. Do you feel that way now? Well, not as much. Well, I feel nervous.

Speaker E
Cause I think it's a big obligation to raise a boy, to raise a man. But I think I was more nervous when we had our daughter because I think the relationship between daughters and parents is more intense and forever, whereas boys, I feel like they grow up and go out into the world. I don't know. But this is my horrible cliche. Gender stereotypes, I'm sure.

Speaker C
I mean, that's what we're here to engage in. It's fine. I feel like a daughter's. Let's just talk about boy brains and girl brains, and your daughter feels like. A more complicated adolescent period.

Speaker E
I was remembering my own adolescence, not in a very. I was sort of like, oh, my God, I was such a terrible teenage girl that, are we gonna get that? So, no. I would say I was equally scared about a girl, but differently. But now I'm just like, I wanna make sure we raise a good man.

Speaker C
Well, I know. And here's the thing that worries me. I grew up in a household where my mom was. She worked, and she was very athletic, and there was no sort of discussion about what I could or could not do. It was just.

It was an open field, and my dad was the same, and I think a bit of an enlightened dude at the time. He was a. When he was working for the newspaper, he would have time during the day to parent his young children, and he would do so. And he also was a better cook than my mother, so he ended up doing a lot of that. So I think I saw a lot of flexibility.

That helps me. But I think these days, we've gone so far past the just, like, free to be you and me vibe into free to be you and me, but not that way. Particularly for boys, where I feel like there are fewer resources and fewer people telling them, here's the shape of what your life could be. Right? Wow.

Speaker E
Yeah. And I worry sometimes that free to be you and me becomes for a boy, if me is just like, I'm a masculine dude who likes trucks and competition, that in a lot of circles, many of the ones I run in, that might be frowned upon a bit. And I don't want that to be. And make him feel good about himself in a world that doesn't want him to feel good about that. Yes, that is concerning to me.

Speaker C
I mean, he has a good dad role model who's plenty masculine. My house has been so invaded, we even have a male dog.

But I understand your trepidation, because I was a single mom to two girls for a little while, and I was widowed, and then I raised them for several years on my own. And I was conscious of the fact that there's a compliment to my characteristics that maybe I needed to compensate for, and I wasn't sure how to do that. I think my baseline for risk taking for my kids and tolerating that is fairly high. But I taught myself to let it be a little higher because I was afraid I might not be giving them some of the chances that a male influence in our house might do for them. Okay, so other than pillow working, for stopping tantrums, what are some other tangible ways you notice they need different treatment or different parenting?

Yeah. The big one for me is that sort of risk tolerance part where I think, as a mom, you do have to train yourself a little bit to let them go out on a limb, sometimes literally. And I think for boys, that can be very important. So I like to work on that, to let him climb structures and get out of my reach a bit within safe parameters. There's a great Nate bargotzi bit, which I will not do justice to, but I will try.

Where he says, I have one girl, and I dropped her off with a friend to babysit her, and we. And then I, in turn, watched his boy at one point, and I learned that was not a fair trade.

He said, I dropped off a princess, and he let loose a bobcat in my home. Wait, that's really funny. I love that. And I think I have one girl, especially my toddler, who is more bobcat than princess. But I think when you have boys, particularly multiple boys, your tolerance for a bit of chaos and a lot more noise probably needs to go up in order for them to do the things that they need to healthily do to express themselves.

And sometimes I have trouble with that. One of the things that has been striking to me about our daughter is on the spectrum. Like, Nelli and I are not hyper feminine. We're not walking around with. I think we might own one purse between the two of us.

Speaker E
She has never seen me use a purse, like, ever. Nellie uses a free press tote, even at a black tie event. And yet our daughter, from really, the earliest stages, was so drawn to the most feminine things. I mean, at first I was sort of baffled, like, where is this coming from? Like, you could put a truck in front of her and you could put a pink thing in front of her, and she's gonna go for the pink thing.

Speaker B
And she's not even as extreme as a lot of other little girls that I see, and I now think it's so wonderful and adorable, and I like getting her little purses and things like that, and I like sort of leaning into it. I had to get over my own second wave feminist nature, and that just wanted to be like, no, we're not doing frilly things. You are playing with a calculator. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, your toy or these blocks.

Speaker E
Like, what do you want a doll for? But I had to get over that within myself and be like, she wants a doll. I mean, she's not even two yet, so she's expressing this in very minor ways, but it has been kind of humbling to look at nature and to say, wow. And we need to encourage and respect and love this and put aside some of those things that I was raised with, which are to say that gender is entirely fake and that. That it's all made up, because it's obviously not.

It's clearly right. I mean, that's the thing, is finding that balance, and it sounds like you got a firstborn like mine, who was also aggressively accessorizing very early in life. Everything's a bracelet. I was like, my rule was turquoise and purple. I don't know what we're doing with all this pink, and you need a skateboard.

Speaker C
And I just, you know. But that was a vision of me that I was projecting on her. That was, like, eighties transformer chick, a great time playing with he man, right? Like, that was what I was with my brothers, but it's not what she was, and that's okay. And who knows what my boy will become?

Although, like I said, his obsession with trucks early on and the pillow fighting. Suggests, well, that's what I was gonna ask. Like, this is your first son. You have three daughters before him. Like, you've just now had the experience of seeing what a boy is like before they can even fully express themselves or make decisions.

Speaker B
Has it struck you how different he is, even from your daughter, who's on the more bobcat edge of the spectrum? I would say those two are definitely more alike, and they're close together, too, so it's partly their interactions. Those two are more alike. I will say what I've heard from a lot of other moms of young boys, and this goes to your point, Nellie, about at what point in life does the child become challenging? People tend to worry about teenage years for girls and maybe those middle years for boys when they're really rambunctious but young infant and toddler boys.

Speaker C
I had heard from all my mom friends that they can be very lovey dovey with their mothers. And I have to say, bobcat gal could take or leave me half the time. My son is much more sweet, much more attentive to me, and I think that is a bit different than the girls were at that age. So cute. Just checking in a little more on mom than the girls did.

Speaker E
Really sweet. Mk. Just raising four kids. Right. We talked to Bethany Mandel for this show, too.

Speaker B
She has six. She gave us some tips, which included leaving a child, having a tantrum at Trader Joe's. Just leaving the middle of the. No, she walked away. No.

I'm admiring this tactic. What are some just overall parenting tips that you have for us? What are some things that are working in your family that we might not find in Nelli's parenting book, which is Reddit or that might not be the most politically correct, in addition, of course, to the pillow. Yeah, just note that one down. I like that Bethany outdid me because she's gone beyond me with the Trader Joe's thing, beyond the pillow.

Speaker C
But I think a couple things I am, we're sort of an odd couple, my husband and I. I am like, very flexible, loosey goosey, possibly undiagnosed ADHD, like, who knows? He is very regimented watching the clock. And for children, and this is the part that we agree on, for children, they need boundaries. They need some predictability.

They need to know what their day looks like. And have you helped them transition from one thing to another? Sometimes my personality can be, it can be very fun for children. Like, what's mom gonna come up with to do today? But his stabilizing force is so helpful for this part, which is there are things in our house which are never an argument because they just are.

Bedtime just is. Emptying the dishwasher just is the time for you to go read a book just is. Or take a walk with the baby. Just is. And that's, it's the same time almost every day.

And they know it's coming. And as a result, we don't have an argument about it. I love that that is not my. Strength, but I would say that I endorse it. And I'm appreciative that my partner has the ability to enforce that kind of pattern because it really helps them to explore outside of those moments.

Right. You're giving them some boundaries and they're allowed to explore within them. The other thing we do is that my now, obviously, you guys are a ways away from this, but my ten and eight year old, we let them wander in the neighborhood to a certain degree, and we're attempting to be nineties parents and just say, go find something to do. Knock on your friends doors, ask them to come play outside. Do not go inside and play with their video games.

That's not what we're doing. And they love it. They get a couple hours of independence. Are other parents completely shocked by this? We live in a pretty heavily military community, so I feel like there's a lot of, for lack of a better term, Normie parents around here, and some of them have gotten more accepting of sending their own kids out, because we send our kids out, so when they're in a little group, you know, it's a safe area and they're fine.

So I hope that we've encouraged a little bit of that and nobody's thought that we were totally insane, so we got that going for us. I want to ask a kind of step back question, which is bears talked a lot honestly about boys and men and how they're falling behind in society, and we've written about it in the free press. You can look at the trend lines in work, in education, in a lot of areas. How do you raise a son? How do we raise our son?

Speaker E
How are you raising your son to avoid some of these trends? Again, I think the trend is to say, and in fact, I think the American Psychology association at one point just said that masculinity is toxic, like, as an institution. Right. And that's not healthy, because then men don't want to go seek therapy, which is allegedly the thing we would like them to do often. But we don't want to categorize the things that make boys boys as automatically toxic, because that aggressive nature that protect can turn into a protective nature, which is, you know, part of what my husband brings to this family.

Speaker C
And we don't want to discourage that in our sons. And I want him to be proud of who he is. I mean, my girls have more girl power t shirts that are just hand me downs from who knows where. I don't think there's, like, ten of them in this house. I didn't buy them.

We don't have any for little dudes. I guess he's got a tractor. But the point being, like, I want him to be who he is and be happy. I want him to see maybe professions and careers modeled for him that might be outside of the four year college degree and go get an information economy job if he wants to do something like welding, which actually my brother did for a while, or if he wants to do coding, you know, whatever it is, I do think there are ways to model certain paths for them that might be more advantageous, might be more rewarding, like if he wants to build things with his hands. I understand that that is very gratifying.

And I think a lot of emphasis is put maybe on things that aren't as rewarding for men and forms of education that aren't as rewarding for boys. Like, sitting in a chair for six to 8 hours a day is frankly very tough for all children, but probably a little tougher for boys often. And so I'm just trying to be cognizant of those things. And that's part of the running out in the neighborhood. Once he gets old enough, he can get out there and find his independence as well.

Speaker E
I love that. I have a family member who, when he was like eight years old, he was super rambunctious. And I remember my parents saying, the teacher wants to put him on ADHD medication. And I was like, even as I think I was twelve or 13 at the time, and even then I was like, that's crazy. He's just a little kid.

Why would you need to put him on that? But anyways, again, the balance with all of these things, it seems to swing sort of wildly over a decade or two, and then you have to sort of readjust. And that's much of what parenting is, is just waiting for your kid to serve up whatever your kid is serving up. And the key for us being receptive to that has been we have certain family values, we have certain boundaries, we have certain ways we do life that are kind of the keystone, like the important stuff. And then inside that, we get to have them revealed to us as little humans.

Speaker C
But it's not all chaos all the time, and they're not running the joint. That's another thing. Don't let them run the joint. What are your family values, and how do you articulate those to your kids? Well, we do go to church, although not as regularly as I should.

My big girls go to a christian school, and that is important to us. We pray, we make sure that hard work is rewarded in our home, that honesty is rewarded, and that it is very clear that being dishonest is not the way we get anything. Frankly, I would say another family value is just intellectual curiosity. That means occasionally just interrogating ideas that they've heard outside the house. And y'all are gonna, this is very on brand for me.

They brought home a scholastic news that had what I deemed to be a fairly misleading article about the FDA.

And it's wisdom. Well, they are your children. However, I was not like, let me tell you about the irresponsibility of the FDA. I talked with them about, okay, well, here's what a government agency is supposed to do in theory, and let us. Explain to you the deep state.

Speaker B
My 18 month old, and they messed. Up nutrition for the last generation. Now, I didn't start there, but I had them think through, okay, well, what does this agency do? What powers does it have? What does that look like when they dictate food choices in a kid's magazine?

Speaker E
Let's start talking about the government. Look, that's one of our family values. I wanted to have a conversation about that. I don't immediately tell them the FDA is terrible and awful and they should never listen to it. I just, you know, but we're gonna have a conversation about it.

Speaker B
It is amazing to me. We had a conversation earlier today with my parents, and certain memories were kind of flooding back to me. And in just so many ways, I was raised very similar, it sounds like, to how you're raising your kids and everything when you're a kid. Seems like, oh, this is just what every family does. Every family says prayers before they go to sleep.

Every family doesn't have family cheer before they go into synagogue. Every family goes to church or synagogue. And now you realize now it's such a stonery comment, but I'm now realizing as a parent that every single thing they did was so intentional and took such discipline on their part, because, frankly, the easier thing is, like, all right, just gonna let it be chaos, you know, and just the thoughtfulness that's going into the choices that you're making and being. I like asking people what their family values are, because I'm always struck that there are certain families that can really articulate them and have articulated them to their kids. Yeah, well, that's one thing I've tried to get better about, is because my tendency is to do, let's just have discussions, let's toss these ideas around.

Speaker C
And I want to allow for that and for them to explore. But I have heard from moms who have had kids who are older that if you don't intentionally communicate what is important to you, they're not necessarily gonna pick it up, and they're gonna pick up other things. Right. So you need to at least be doing your part on that front. So my.

My libertarian nature and my mom nature sort of fight each other in that way. But I think having them, that's the other thing I've learned, is like, just teaching them ideas and civics and all of that stuff can be so rewarding. And also, there's so much of it to teach. It's really, once you start building those foundational blocks for learning and for thinking about things, you realize, like, wow, this is a very, this is a lifelong process for a reason. And yeah, I'm glad I got started early.

Speaker B
Well, when I need to know what the FDA does or how a bill becomes a law, I will be sure to come to your household. Mary Katherine Hamm, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, guys. You're the best.

Okay, so here's the part of the episode where Nelli and I are supposed to sit down and thoughtfully, quietly reflect on all that we learned today. But just as we were about to sit down at the microphone together, she started having contractions. So lot going on in our house and it's just me right now as Nelli manages the long and excruciating experience of early labor. And I promise I'm being a very, very good butler to her. But I will say that both Nellie and I are feeling a lot less anxious about this second kid now that we talk to, if not all of our wise parent friends, at least some of them.

And I hope you guys feel the same way, not necessarily about having a second kid, but just about parenting in general. And maybe, hopefully you now feel okay to just ignore that kid having a tantrum on the floor at Trader Joe's because Bethany Mandel says it's okay. More than okay, she says it'll make for a better kid. If you liked this episode, if it made you laugh or smile, or maybe you complain to completely disagreed about leaving a kid on the floor at Trader Joe's, for example, that's all great. Share it with your friends and family and use it to have a conversation of your own.

It is a wild time to bring children into the universe or to parent the ones you have in 2024. I don't know about you, but all we can talk about in my house is the election. Even more than the baby. Last but not least, if you want to support honestly, there's just one way to do it. It's by going to the Free presses website@thefp.com and becoming a subscriber today.

I'll see you next time and maybe with some very exciting news. Take care.

Bari and Nellie Are Having Another Baby-and They Have Questions!

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1: Introduction

2: Guest Experiences

3: Handling Fears and Expectations

4: Advice for Parenting

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