Saturday Matinee: Rex Factor

Lindsay Graham
When you get passionate about something, a new hobby or sport or music or film or book series, a few things happen. One, you begin to research. You read the interviews. You follow the social accounts. You dig into the behind the scenes stories and making of documentaries.

You want to know how this important thing happened and for what reasons. Two, you discover controversies. There will inevitably be some conflict in how your new passion is done best, or whose story is closest to the truth. And you need to pick sides. Then.

Third, you become a champion, an advocate, and evangelist. Your new passion is supreme. And here are ten reasons why. Heres a detailed account of why your favorite is better than others favorites. It might be stones versus beetles.

It might be weightlifting versus calisthenics. It could be cross stitching versus embroidery. And even within categories, you get rankings like who was better? John Paul? George OrINgo well, on today's Saturday matinee, we're exploring what two fellow history lovers did when they went through the same progression of passion 14 years ago.

Friends Graham Duke and Ollie Hood discovered a shared love of history and podcasts and decided to set about answering the question of who was England's greatest monarch, going over the life of every one of them and reviewing them on a number of different factors, trying to decide whether or not they have that certain something that Graham and Ali call the Rex Factor. So far, they've reviewed all the monarchs of England and Scotland and are currently making their way through the consorts of England. Which is why the episode we're sharing today is on Queen Charlotte of Mecklenburg Strelitz, whose world was turned inside out as her husband, King George III, lost the american colonies and slowly went mad. I hope you enjoy. While you're listening, be sure to search for and find Rex Factor.

We've put a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

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Uses directed welcome to Rex Factor.

Ali Bull
This. Week, Charlotte of Mechtenberg Strelitz.

With your. Hosts, Graham Duke and Ali Bull.

Graham Duke
Hello. Hello and welcome to Rex Factor, where we are reviewing all the Queen and prince consorts of England, from El swith to Prince Philip. Follow us on Twitter X and Instagram, where we are ex factorpod, email rex Factor podcastotmar.com and sign up for bonus content@patreon.com. Rexfactor. And this week, as you've heard, we are reviewing Charlotte of Mecklenburg Strelitz, wife and consort to King George III, in person.

Well, we are in person together. Good point. Charlotte, how are you feeling about this? For many people, she'll be perhaps the queen in Bridgerton on Netflix or in madness of King George. Oh, yes, from Mecklenburg Strelitz.

Ali Bull
For some reason, I thought this person was doing the germanness. Okay. Hmm. What's giving you that idea? So I thought that George would have had an English.

Graham Duke
Well, let's. Okay. Let's find out who she is and why you thought she was bringing the german thing. Biography Charlotte was born in 1744 on the 19 May St. Dunstan's Day.

Obviously. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I knew it rang a bell. And she's the daughter of Charles Louis Frederick, the prince of Mirau, and Elizabeth Albertina of Saxe Hildberghausen. She's bringing the germanness.

She's bringing the germanness. She's born a little north of modern day Berlin at Mirau palace in the Duchy of Mecklenburg Strelitz, which is a tiny duchy in the Holy Roman Empire about the size of Sussex. But this happened last time. It did. And this is perhaps even more tiny, even by the standards of some pretty small imperial duchies.

This one is tiny, considered a rural backwater, with some visitors dubbing it Muckleberg straw litter. Yeah, okay, but why is the right. Why is Braintree district council. Yes, and Uttlesford district council suddenly shunting all of their heirs off to be royalty in England? George, is the German in this?

Ali Bull
So it's just a German. Why isn't he going for. Why is he going for a badly british one? Come on. I mean, I don't particularly mind at all, but it's odd that they're not trying to make an alliance with.

I don't know who's the other important person.

Graham Duke
We'll come on to the. George's motivations for why it's Charlotte soon. But the key in terms of you're saying, why do we keep going for these minor german duchies is basically because it's got to be protestant. Of course, since 1688. It's no longer.

It's not just that we are protestant, it is that catholicism at all is like, you're not in the succession, you're completely out of it. So you cannot have a catholic queen now at all. But you restricting yourself, you can't have France, can't have Spain. Okay, so that actually makes an awful lot of sense. So even within the context of Muckleberg straw litter, Charlotte's status initially looks pretty unimpressive.

She's the 8th of ten children. Oh, gosh. And she's just the niece of the duke. So her father isn't even the duke, he's the younger brother. At what point is that not.

Ali Bull
Does she not qualify for royal marriages? At what point does she become a pleb? Sorry, we've got. You just don't. You can't come into this room now.

Yeah, I mean, at what point do you pass the test? Well, the good news for her is that when her father and uncle die in 1752, separately, but nevertheless, same year, her brother then inherits the dukedom because her uncle didn't have any children. So that moves them up the pecking order just enough. So they move to the grander Neustrelitz residence and she gets a more advanced education now from a noted poet, Friedrich von Grabow, who is famed as the german sappho. A very impressive poet.

Graham Duke
And Charlotte becomes a voracious reader, an adept musician. Also develops a passion for botany, but a prospect still not thought to be that grand. So she actually, in 1760, becomes the non resident secular canoness at an abbey, which is basically a job. Well, it's not so much a job as a possible job if she needs it. So really it's a plan b.

So that means if she doesn't get a husband, which is what they're thinking about as this younger daughter of a minor duke or sister of a minor duke, she's got this lined up. Wow, that's really interesting, isn't it? People on the very, very fringes making the leap one way and the other. Hmm. However, suitor does come calling for her.

So, in Great Britain, George III becomes king in 1760 at the age of 22. So, as I said, first English born of the hanoverian monarchs. He's also the first unmarried monarch to come to the throne for exactly 100 years. Who was that before? Is that 1660?

Ali Bull
Charles. Charles Izaki. Now, many do assume that he will marry an english lady. Well, I certainly did, not least because he's actually in love with one called Sarah Lennox and is giving off a lot of sense that he's going to marry her. But, however, he is very mindful of the lessons he's learned of the annals of France and fears becoming prey to women.

What's the annals of France, basically? Just where kings have been influenced by ne'er do well women and mistresses? I mean, yeah, I think you can. Find that in the annals of England as well. But that wasn't the spin he was given.

Yeah, yeah. So he declares instead that he was born for the happiness or misery of a great nation and consequently must often act contrary to my passions. So instead, he's going to follow his head rather than his heart, summons his hanoverian minister in London, Baron Munchausen, and tells him to undertake a search for England's next queen on the continent. Okay. Still not specifically Germany.

Graham Duke
Just not specifically Germany. And he's not too concerned about looks, either. Doesn't have to be beautiful. That's not what he's after. He does have a stringent set of criteria, though.

He's got to be protestant, as we said, so that rules out the likes of France and Spain. Needs a shared outlook. So pious, traditional, dutiful, and he wants somebody who's going to be a supportive companion for his sort of view of trying to restore the prestige of the monarchy in many ways, think Proto Victorian Albert, sort of much more moral, proper royal family. And he also doesn't want another Caroline Vansbach that we had last time. He doesn't want an influential and political consort.

He wants someone that will sit nicely next to him and not take too much of an interest in that sort of thing. Baron Munchausen draws up a short list of about six potential brides and Charlotte is added almost as an afterthought. So she's really a rank outsider when she first goes on. And it is all german options. They initially thought about Denmark, but the princess there was already betrothed to somebody else.

The list is quickly whittled down. Some are reported as being stubborn or ill tempered. Some have had bad marriage choices elsewhere in their families. Oh, blimey. Ironically, some had a family history of mental illness that George was worried about.

One was all doubt simply because she was interested in philosophy. Gosh, this is a tough test, isn't it? I mean, it's almost utterly random what you end up with by the end, which is why you end up with an archduke of braintree or whatever. Well, yeah, it is pretty much by elimination. Charlotte is last woman standing.

Well, Munchausen does actually fear that Mecklenburg Strelitz is actually a bit too much of a backwater for a queen. But George wasn't worried about this, saying a little of England's air will soon give her the deportment necessary for a british queen. Oh, so he's banging the british drum here. On further investigation, Charlotte is noted to have an unimpeachable reputation, which is obviously what they want to hear. She's noted for being quiet, kind and unassuming.

Ali Bull
Good. Plus, George thinks her youth and lack of worldly sophistication means that she can effectively be moulded into the queen that he wants. So she doesn't come prepackaged with a personality and a view of the world. You can just impose that on her. So Janice Hadlow summarized, she was a conservative, politically, morally and spiritually most at ease in the confines of the established order and unsettled by any attempts to undermine its power.

Graham Duke
These were qualities which would have appealed very strongly to George. Yeah. In appearance, however, pretty much all reports agree that she's very plain. All right. Horace Walpole describes her thus.

She is not tall nor a beauty. Pale and very thin, but looks sensible and genteel. Her hair is darkish and her forehead low. Her nose very well, except the nostril spreading too wide. The mouth has the same fault, but her teeth are good.

Ali Bull
I've never, ever described someone in such detail. The thing I struggle with these things is, I find a description of her face impossible to build a picture from. Nose that is fair. Oh, right. Okay.

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that straight away. Well, her nose is very well, except for the nostrils spreading too wide. Well, so he's saying specifically just the bridge is very well, yes, and there's. No r.

Graham Duke
Now, although Walpole here describes her as pale, others have suggested a swarthy complexion as to some of her portraits. And Baron Stockmar later on describes her as having a real mulatto face. What does that mean? Well, basically, it is sometimes said with Charlotte that she is mixed race and has african heritage. Now, we're not going to go into that in great detail here.

We'll talk about that a bit more in the privy chamber. But because people might be wondering, particularly because she is cast with a black actress in Bridgerton, I'll just say this here, though, just to answer this question. The theory that she's african essentially doesn't really hold any weight with most historians. So it's uncertain whether the ancestor in question definitely was black. She might not have.

Could have been, but wasn't definitely. But even if she was, it's 15 generations back. So early 13th century, the twelve hundreds. You know how I feel about this. All this, but still, that's.

But nevertheless, scientifically, that's one ancestor, possibly 15 generations back. The number of different genetics coming in at that's really quite a negligible bit. By the time you get to Charlotte. 15 generations back is enough for us all to be related. It's an exciting idea, isn't it, the idea of a portuguese empire fusing with Africa.

Ali Bull
I mean, I think the idea of a british empire in Africa as being all a bit of bland, going around building stone libraries, but portuguese empire smacks of spices and those drapey things they put on the walls and exotic bits of Game of Thrones. What would you say are the defining characteristics of these two great sets of peoples? Well, you know, the sort of traips and libraries. Yeah, traipse and libraries. Anyway, whilst George is a little disappointed at the description of her, her plainness, nothing to do with the race element, he concluded that while the reports were not in every particular as I could wish, yet I am resolved to fix here.

I mean, it really doesn't matter to these kings, does it? It's just. Did he have mistresses? No. So he is fixed on also this moral family outlook.

Graham Duke
So it does, you could say, perhaps it does matter. He isn't planning to then just get a very pretty mistress. Right. So, in 1761, Charlotte leaves Mecklenburg Strelitz for England has the traditional stormy crossing that all consorts do. Her departure is delayed a little bit due to her mother's death just a few days after the marriage offer was formally received.

She comes into London on the 8 September, greeted by large and excited crowds, before meeting George for the first time at St James's palace. Yeah. And then doesn't get much time to settle in as they get married that day. Do we have George's reaction? Well, there are some accounts that suggest that there was a flash of disappointment on his face, but I don't think, actually, that there's any evidence that need to treat her with perfect courtesy, as he'd expected.

Ali Bull
Good man. So he didn't. I was just expecting sort of a Charles II moment here, because it feels like. Bought me a bat.

It just feels like he had a word for every occasion. She's very nervous during the ceremony, as you can imagine. Stumbles at one point, weighed down by all the jewels on her dress. But George's younger brother whispers to her, courage, princess, courage. Nice.

Graham Duke
Keep her going. She hadn't got to choose her dress either, so that is just presented to her in the moment. And it's also the first time she's worn it and it's actually a bit too large. So combined with all the heavy jewels, Walpole commented, the spectators knew as much of her upper half as the king himself. Oh, what did it pull up?

Ali Bull
Pull up. I don't know if it completely came down, but I think the. I imagine what he means is that it was a bit more revealing than would have been planned, because it kept slipping a bit. Yeah. You could see.

You could see how fully clothed she was underneath. Charlotte really is thrown very much at the deep end, so it's only two weeks later. They then have a joint coronation. Gosh. Their behaviour throughout the ceremony is deemed as impeccable, despite the fact that it was a notoriously ill rehearsed and chaotic affair.

Graham Duke
So we talked about this in his episode, a coronation special. This is where we've got the sort of state being forgotten. Long silences where no one knew what was meant to be said. Next, a horse reversing bottom first into the hall. Charlotte herself was in the midst of the chaos, with her crown getting stuck to her hair, so she had to wear it the entire time.

And when she went to visit the retiring chamber, a special sort of portable toilet had been erected for her in St Edward's Chapel, behind the high altar. She got there only to find the Duke of Newcastle. The prime minister was already sitting on it.

Ali Bull
Oh, gosh, if this were a farce written in sort of that death at a funeral style, you just wouldn't believe it. Thankfully, once the chaotic pageantry's over, things do improve. George and Charlotte prove excellently matched and quickly settle into a genuinely happy and loving marriage. They've got the shared religious outlook, interests in music, dislike of pageantry and courtly life. So they settle into a more quiet and domestic setup.

Graham Duke
So just purchased Buckingham House or Buckingham palace, as it will become a kew palace or loyal little queue, Charlotte calls it. They prefer simple clothes, simple food. So, you know, sort of vegetables with a little bit of meat, not too much wine or anything. Entertain themselves with parlor games. Charlotte does needlework while George is busy.

He comes back and then reads to her while she's still doing the needlework. I mean, this is me. Plain vegetables, bit of black tea, taskmaster in the evening, after doing my little. Projects, he dubs her my treasure from Strelitz and even tolerated her addiction to snuff despite it making him sneeze prodigiously. Oh, gosh.

Ali Bull
Him sneeze? Yes. Oh, really? Huh. I hadn't thought about secondhand snuff.

Secondhand smoking, I can understand. I don't even really understand snuff. Thankfully, Charlotte and George also find it very easy to have children together. So a son, the future Prince regent, future George IV, is born less than a year after the marriage. Indeed, between 1762 and 1783, they have 15 children.

Whoa. With no known miscarriages or stoolbirths. There's a healthy life they've got together there, isn't it? Indeed. So very happy.

Graham Duke
He's a young family, so George is often on his knees playing with them and both spending as much time with them as possible. Large, happy, thoroughly not ostentatious royal family. So it's exactly the image George wants to project to the public. However, it is not all sunshine and joy. No.

Although Charlotte and George are genuinely happy together Charlotte's is an extremely closeted existence from the off. So George sees the marriage as a domestic escape from politics and court life. So he doesn't want Charlotte caught up in any of that. So her role has gone. Consort is extremely limited.

She's discouraged from making friends amongst George's subjects. So apparently no english lady could approach her without permission from her german attendants. Much later on, Charlotte confesses to her friend, Lady Harcourt of the King's great strictness at my arrival in England to prevent my making many acquaintances for on account of the politics of the country, there never could be kept up society without party, which was always dangerous for any woman to take part on, but particularly so for the royal family. And with truth, I do assure you that I am not only sensible, that he was right, but I feel thankful for it, for the bottom of my heart. So she's complaining, but also saying thanks.

Yeah. So even if he was right in the politics, it's incredibly isolating for her. So Lady Harcourt felt that he had kept her a virtual prisoner in order to prevent her from being corrupted by the poisons of the age. And there's a sense that she has to be so completely subsumed within George's needs and interests, there's no real opportunity for her at this early stage to have her own spheres of influence or interest, so she's got no real role or influence at court. George still is heavily influenced by his mother.

Mother initially in the prime minister, Lord Bute, to the extent that when he actually has a brief bout of mental ill health in 1765. Right. But Charlotte not only has no idea that he's ill, but she also doesn't know that parliament actually passed a regency bill that would have named her regent in the event that he couldn't return. She's that removed from. She's that removed that you didn't even know that she was potentially about to become regent of the country.

Ali Bull
This is all this is. This is a georgian thing, isn't it? Well, I mean, it's not the experience of the last one. Caroline Rand's back. No.

What was the first? The first one was locked up in the tower. This feels like an emotional prison. Yes, I think that is the thing. Yeah.

Graham Duke
So even if she had tried to exert some influence, the fact was, of course, she spends the first 20 years pretty much always pregnant or giving birth, and the after effects of that so obviously severely limits what she can do anyway, in terms of how still that process is treated and her ability to be out and doing anything. After a 9th child, when she still isn't even 30 years old, she seems to suffer from postnatal depression. And after child eleven writes to her brother, revealing that most forms of entertainment are forbidden me, you will see that my continual confinement, or rather my solitary life, weighs heavy on my soul. Oh, she needs a holiday. She does.

Now. Once her campaign, as she calls it, that is giving birth all the time, is over, she might have felt, seems to have felt a bit more positive about her situation. So in 1785, the novelist Fanny Burney, whom Charlotte employs in her service for some time, is touched by their still happy relationship, their behaviour to each other speaks the most cordial confidence and happiness in their different ways and allowing for the difference of their characters, they left me equally charmed both with their behaviour to each other and to myself. It's nice eggs. 20 years in.

Ali Bull
Hmm. Children are done. Still happy. Unfortunately, though, everything is about to be turned upside down. In 1788, there was growing concern about George's health.

Graham Duke
Doctors are summit in October when he was wracked with cramp going up and down his legs and his back eyes reported yellow, his urine brown and sort of occasional flecks of foam at his lips. Oh, dear. Now this sort of seems to pass. But his behavior becomes increasingly erratic. So his speech was rambling and agitated to the extent that he'd sort of just keep repeating words and phrases at length.

Talks for hours at a time. Rumours of his illness spread, so he tries to dampen speculation by attending a concert, a concert at court, only to then keep getting up, moving around, talking loudly throughout. But that's the action of a sane man trying to prove his sanity. But he can't help getting up and. And Charlotte and the other courtiers act as if nothing untoward is going on.

Which just makes it even more surreal. Yeah. Now, understandably, Charlotte, who bears much the brunt of his behavior, given that got such a domestic setup, is increasingly alarmed by this. One day his vision became so blurred he almost sets fire to her by pushing a candle right up into her face so he can see who it is properly. And she's frequently seen in tears, pacing up and down corridors, shaking her head.

She despairs to Fanny Burney. What will become of me? What will become of me? Now? The problem is also people aren't really sure what to do about how to constrain the king.

And so on the 5 November, a family meal, he jumps from his chair and attacks the prince of Wales, apparently smashing his head against the wall. And then gives Charlotte, who's understandably just screaming hysterically, sort of strange, glaring look. Oh, God. Oh, how scary. And he becomes obsessive over Charlotte.

So she's moved to a different bedroom on the excuse that she's ill. But he insists on getting up in the middle of the night to look after her himself. Initially he just talks incessantly, but the later just stands over her and stares at her for a full half hour before eventually someone persuades him that she needs to be left alone to sleep. It feels like it's revealing an inner concern for her, just delivered so scarily. He tries to do it again.

The following night. But this time, action finally is taken. So instead of finding Charlotte in there, he finds his doctor, his sons, all the male courtiers are just lining the walls, basically. And he is eventually, after some prefarication, led away and detained. Okay, so this is.

Ali Bull
He's actually under locke and key now. Yeah. So it's still not entirely clear what was wrong with jaw. So, porphyria, which is a blood disease affecting the nervous system, is sort of often cited, though bipolar disorders also speculated. Right.

Graham Duke
So not quite sure. The point for the time, though, is that contemporary doctors had no idea what was going on. Yeah. And which is obviously. Probably Morse, Gary, that you can't explain it.

Charlotte is so alarmed by all of this that some fear she'll suffer her own nervous breakdown. Her hair turns grey, loses her appetite, she gets an inflammation of her eyes. So she just has to sit in virtual darkness for a while. Grim George is transferred to Kew, where, initially, his condition worsens. And then he very much turns against Charlotte.

So he starts ranting that she was mad, he'd never loved her, the children are scared of her, even tries to get her dog away from her because he said he likes him more than her. And he also begins to openly and quite graphically describe his obsession with one of her ladies in waiting, Lady Pembroke.

All of this is devastating at a personal level, but it also drags Charlotte into the murky world of politics, because Charlotte and the Prince of Wales begin a battle for the control of the king and also a potential regency. Prince of Wales is now of age. He's an adult, he can be regent. But the Tory prime minister, Pitt the younger, is concerned about the prince's very open allegiance to the opposition and the Whigs, Charles Fox, etcetera. And Charlotte, as a traditionalist, is minded to support Pitt because he's the king's man.

This results in mutual suspicion between Charlotte, her son, all of this sort of thing. There's a very public spat. They've got rival doctors treating George, giving competing diagnoses of whether he's getting better or not getting better, and the image of a harmonious royal family very much broken. Oh, dear, oh, dear. So this is Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire.

Ali Bull
Time? It is, yes.

Okay. I would place it a little bit now. Thankfully, George does recover before a regency is required. But understandably, the family, both as individuals and a uni, is never really quite the same. Again.

Graham Duke
George is extremely remorseful. He does try to show Charlotte great tenderness, but she understandably can't forget all the cruel things he's said and done during his illness, nor hide the fact that she's really still very worried it's going to return. Yeah. But ultimately, of course, that begins to hurt George.

Ali Bull
Once he's better, when he's. Better, when he's better, that he can tell that she's always looking at him as if he might go off on one, that she's not really the same again. So he is increasingly reported as being dissatisfied with her. Unfortunately, there are relapses for George. So in 1801, quite suddenly falls ill once more and again.

Graham Duke
Placed under close confinement, Charlotte confided that she wished not to remain so long with the king. It was more than she could sustain, and she appeared to despair. George hates his treatment where he is confined, and he refuses to sign government documents at one point until he's allowed back to his family. And then after he's allowed back to Charlotte's room, she again arranges afterwards to have him put back into care, stating when he is that she was very thankful it is not to be conceived. What I have endured for the last five nights never goes into detail about it, but very grim for her.

There's another relapse in 1804, with George making lots of very publicly improper and suggestive marks to various ladies of court, or just any lady you can see. And then another relapse comes in 1810, but this time there won't be any recovery. So in 1811, we have the Regency act passed, which puts George's person and household into Charlotte's care, while the prince of Wales, now Prince Regent, is sort of king in all but name. Right. Charlotte would visit George at Windsor with her daughters, but the visits don't go well, says one of her daughters, Mary, related.

It was shocking to hear the poor king run on so. And her unfortunate manner makes things so much worse. I fear we can never make them a real comfort to each other again, as all confidence has long gone. So, after a short visit in June 1812, Charlotte leaves the burden of visiting George to her daughters and she never sees him again. History Daily is sponsored by Greenlight.

Lindsay Graham
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Ali Bull
So, meanwhile, we've, there's Napoleon going nuts on the continent. Yeah.

Gosh. Yeah. Whoops. And America's America. War of 1812.

Graham Duke
Oh, yeah, war of America for a second time. Yeah. Burning down the White House. White House. So the world's on fire at this point.

Yes. Well, that's reassuring, isn't it? Because it feels like that at the moment.

Charlotte's health has been extremely robust throughout, well, all her life, really. But it does go into a bit of a decline in the 18 hundreds. Her weight fluctuates wildly at times. She suffers from attacks of erysipelas. Erysipelas.

Erysipelas. It makes her face red and swollen, basically from 1817. She's suffering from hydrothorax, which leads to severe respiratory problems and ultimately heart failure, or dropsy, as they call it, time. Goodness me. I mean, it's a very sad story, isn't it?

She increasingly withdraws from public life barring sort of major family events. So, like 1818, for example, sees the marriages of three of her sons and her daughter, Elizabeth. 1818, we're nearly finished. Well, I know Victoria's got a massive reign coming up, so that can't be far away. Well, no.

No, it's not. Anyway, in June, Charlotte retires to Kew, hoping to progress onto Windsor when she feels a bit stronger. But her doctors are clear that she isn't going to be getting better. So the Prince Regent is called for and she dies holding his hand on the 17 November 1818, at the age of age of 74.

Ali Bull
I mean, I feel like we needed this Prince George IV. He's a bit more of a rabble rouser, isn't he? Is he? Yeah. Need a bit of that now.

It's all got a bit pack of cheer up. Eastenders Christmas special. And she is actually survived by George III, who wouldn't have known or understood that she had died. So his care passes into his second son's care, the Duke of York, until George himself dies little over a year later in 1820. Well, it's so sad.

Graham Duke
Yes. That's the life and consort chef of Charlotte of Mecklenburg Strelitz. We'll review her after a quick break. Battleliness. While Charlotte's mostly something of a background figure in terms of politics and major events, she is pushed very much to the forefront when it comes to the regency crisis.

So, 1788 89. The first time that George has a big mental health crisis and clashes with, well, her oldest two sons, actually, and the Whig opposition. So Charlotte quickly became suspicious of the Prince of Wales. Motivation. He'd already been cavorting with the opposition and started to take unilateral action.

So he brings in his own doctor Warren, who's associated with the Whigs, orders George's removal to Kew without actually consulting Charlotte. Why is this so confrontational, though? They've both got his care at heart. Well, because. So it's only at Charlotte's insistence that she's able to go to queue at all.

Otherwise she's kind of been pushed out of things, basically. She and Pitt, the prime minister, suspect that George, that the prince, the doctor, etcetera, are planning to just have George declared insane so that prince can become regent. And then as prime minister, he will then, or as regent, he will kick out Pitt and the Tories, put fox and the Whigs in, so that it's a power grab, basically. Right. On the other hand, of course, she and Pitt then bring in their own doctor Willis.

That's Ian Holm in the film. Oh, yeah. So the prince and the Whig suspect that this doctor in the reports is too optimistic. So they're trying to prevent a regency when it's needed, by pretending that George. Is better than he actually is.

So the Prime Minister Pitt tables a regency bill which would severely restrict the power of the regent. So no powers of patronage or any of that sort of thing. And perhaps aware that Charlotte will accept if the prince doesn't. So it's rumored that she is planning to become regent and that Pitt is handing bad terms to the prince because he thinks, well, if he says no, fine, I'll just make the queen regent. So I find it very important to find sides.

Ali Bull
He is not up to the job, is he? He shouldn't. He is not capable of being. There should be a regency, and I. Think it's right that regency probably shouldn't have ability to grant patronage and stuff.

Graham Duke
So, I mean, to be fair, I mean, it says everything says it's severely restricting, I guess restricting in the sense of that he is meant to be virtual king. So you'd expect, I suppose, a regency to be just right, your king, until this guy gets better. But in fact, it's like a year, which says, unless the king hasn't recovered in a year, you're not able to do really the sort of key leverages of power aren't open. Are we at that point now where he's still got those real levers of power, then? Well, yeah, he can still kick out the prime minister.

It's kind of the key one. So he can completely change the government at a win. But many suspect Charlotte of having her own ambition to be regent. So Gilbert Elliot claimed she's playing the devil and has been all this time at the bottom of the cabals and intrigues against the prince. Now, more likely, she's probably just trying to preserve things as they were, in the hope that George will recover.

And then she's defending his interests rather than pursuing her ambition or trying to thwart the prince specifically. It's more about, this is how the world works, how it is. He's the king, let's just keep everything as it is until he's better. And he will get better, isn't it? Right.

Whatever her motivation, the point is she is in a battle. So she insisted on having oversight of all the bulletins that were issued on George's health and is accused of giving suspiciously positive updates on the condition. So she ensures they've got as little information as possible that could embarrass or humiliate George. Yeah, I mean, maybe George was right, because it seems like as soon as she's involved in politics, she draws a line in the sand. This is why women shouldn't get involved.

Ali Bull
But, I mean, what is wrong with handing power over? He is not. Well, I guess the problem. Well, a. I suppose that they are hoping, assuming that he will get better.

Graham Duke
So I guess in that situation, when you've got. Because I guess the other problem is constitutionally. The other problem is that the prince is so deeply involved in party politics. The other ideal is that the heir to the throne should not basically be the sort of chief executive of the opposition party. You should be trying to stand above it.

Whereas he is very much party politics. I mean. So is she worried? Well, she is, but her position is. We shouldn't be doing this at all.

He is still the king, we shouldn't be getting involved. So we should just keep everything as it is. So we shouldn't be getting rid of the current government, we should just leave it here for George when he gets better. Whereas the prince is, I want to be king and I'm going to kick out this lot, put all my mates in power. Yeah.

Ali Bull
It's a different system, isn't it? It's pretending George is okay is the price to pay, so that. For stability. Yeah. God, she does care, doesn't she?

Graham Duke
The weak doctor Warren even stands up to her on one occasion. Refuses to write that the king has continued mending when he just genuinely doesn't share that prognosis. Ultimately, of course, George does recover. So you could say, in effect, Charlotte wins that battle, prince doesn't get the regency, everything stays as well. George is back to normal.

The conflict continues after that, though. So the prince accused her of plotting with his enemies and entering into plans for destroying and disgracing him. That is the politics that he wanted to get involved in, though. Yes, but he didn't want anyone to stop him.

Marge, I swear, I never thought you'd find out.

Ali Bull
That's such a great line. In response to that, Charlotte organizes a concert to celebrate George's recovery. But it is very, very overtly political. Tory colours, all those sorts of things. And she makes it clear to George and the other son, the Duke of York, that whilst technically invited, they are not welcome.

Graham Duke
But nevertheless, Charlotte does come out on top. And the public response very much in favour of her and the king. So they are cheered as after the king and the prince sort of gets booed and jeered because he's not popular. Right, so that's a battle and a victory of a sort. Yeah.

Ali Bull
Especially for someone who's coming at it completely cold. Yes. Being isolated for so long, not even told anything. On the other hand, she's deeply reluctant to become involved in the regency crisis. She later still claims that she remained fearful of meddling in politics, which I abhor, equal to sin.

Graham Duke
And you could say, arguably, it's Pitt who probably does the real politics, you know, battling the regency bill and whatnot. Charlotte is perhaps a little more personal with her son. But that is still a battle, though, isn't it? Because the personal did matter in the politics, and it was a rare venture into politics for her. So, as you said, she's chosen to consort because she doesn't really have any interest in it.

In the early days of the marriage, George even used to have Charlotte waiting in a separate room while he met with his mother and the prime minister to discuss matters of state. Not to say she didn't have any influence, of course, so she'll, of course, have that informal influence that consorts have when they are close to the monarch. Her letters to her brother show she's got a good understanding of Britain's political system, keen interest in continental affairs as well, which she does dabble in a little bit, sort of hidden from view. So if you can get to her, then she spends an awful lot of time with the king. Yeah.

Ali Bull
I'm trying to remove myself opinion on it. I don't know. I think that she was wrong in some ways. If it were anyone else, she would definitely be wrong. But there was the fact that it was going against the regent, who was trying to make it so political, which, thank God, Victoria came along ages later and sort of, by not doing anything, removed it, basically.

Graham Duke
They're sort of. The prince's position is wrong, and therefore Charlotte also takes a wrong position in order to see off his wrong position. Yeah, I absolutely sympathize with that. You have to take a similarly extreme position to push a normal way forward. And she did win.

Ali Bull
But it was luck, wasn't it, that the king just came round again? Yes. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

I don't feel like then it's that great. I mean, I suppose there's a lot of points because she was just kept totally, like some sort of south american religious offering, clean and pure, without any politics at all. And then. Oh, forget that. Shove you right into the.

Yeah. Coming into it completely cold of this sort of shenanigans. Yeah. She sort of, you know, she stands her ground five. Yeah.

Graham Duke
I might even go a bit less, to be honest. I might go, like, for a four. I think it's. It's not. Maybe even less than that.

Ali Bull
Yeah, actually, because she's not doing anything, is it? No, everything's fine. Everything's fine. Yeah, I'm going three and a half. I'm going down to a four.

No, I'm going down to a three. Oh. Oh, wow. No, I've got. I think I got caught up in it and actually, it.

No, four. Four. Because I think it was the right thing to do in this instance. Although I suppose that's sort of almost getting onto the scandal question, I suppose, isn't it? The right or wrongs isn't, in a way.

Graham Duke
It doesn't matter. She's right or wrong. The point is that she fights three. And that's my final, final say on the subject. So a three and a three and a half.

Six and a half of athliness. That's the most I've ever come down from my original position. Yeah. Scandal. So there's a lot of scandal going on within the royal family at this point, but Charlotte, I'd say, pretty much the only one for whom that's not the case, so indeed, she's something of a prude, really.

So she supports George's view on royal marriage. She refuses to recognize marriage of two of his brothers when they marry within the english nobility without permission, refuses to receive the new duchesses at court. While George is deciding how to go about relieving his sister, Caroline Matilda. She'd been imprisoned by the Danes, where she was queen, for adultery. Charlotte declared that she would sooner leave Britain herself than receive his sister at court.

Ali Bull
Oh, gosh. If anything, she almost goes so far as to create a scandal such as her dedication to this. So she refused to receive her new daughter in law, Frederica, in 1815, despite the urgings of the Prince regent and Frederick William II of Prussia. Why Frederick William III of Prussia? Sorry?

Graham Duke
Oh, because of, again, marriage stuff. Right. She's going to score badly here. You could almost argue the covering up the mad King is almost the most scandalous thing. You could argue that she does.

You were talking about the rights and wrongs. I suppose if you want to recognize the wrong, you could score her here. There's no sense of impropriety. Yeah, I think that's a difference. Like it's political maneuverings rather.

Ali Bull
Well, I don't know. Yeah. I feel like I'm fishing for something and she. She's like lady button from ghosts. Yes.

Graham Duke
Yeah. I mean, you asked earlier if she was sitting here, what she'd think she would be absolutely fuming. If you were thinking about giving her. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I have.

Yeah. I agree. She. She's not a scandalous queen. The hero for scandal.

Ali Bull
Subjectivity. Well, initially, Charlotte plays an important role in promoting an ideal of the royal family as a beacon of stability and domesticity. Even satirical cartoons are sort of complementary to this end. So George and Charlotte usually depicted as rustic folk. Ah, yeah.

Graham Duke
Farmer George and stuff, which perhaps a bit dull and istimious, but it's also a bit more relatable as a couple living not so extraordinary lives, which is, in a way, what George wants to. Yeah, yeah. Project. And as I said, it does feel a bit of a prototype for victorian Albert later in the century, which we'll see. Furthermore, in her subjectivity, this sense of a sort of a model.

Ali Bull
Yeah. Of how they're meant to be as a monarchy, but also first family in cultural patronage. Charlotte does an awful lot here. She acquired a library of over 4000 volumes. She's a voracious reader.

Graham Duke
Fanny Burney, essentially is employed because she's a leading author rather than because she has any aptitude for being servant. Observed that she rarely saw Charlotte without a book in her hand. And she had a particular passion for educational treatise. Treatises which used to inspire her daughter's education. Even wrote to her brother that.

I am of the opinion that if women had the same advantages as men in their education, they would do just as well. Yeah. Brilliant. But it seems to be an academic interest. So she keeps on buying these books even after her children have passed that stage.

Ali Bull
I like that. That's her hobby, that and botany. Yes. She's a talented musician, we mentioned earlier. So she continues her musical studies in England under her music master, who is a son of j's, Bach.

Nice. And she even sings Nahria, accompanied by an eight year old. Mozart. No, he visited England on his grand tour and afterwards he published six sonatas, opus three, in her honor. Nice.

Graham Duke
As you're saying. She does continue her passion for botany, so she enriches the collection at Kew Gardens. And so you've got, of course, at this time, you've got Captain Cook, Joseph Banks, going all over the world and. Yeah, discovering, quote, new species. It is such an exciting time, though, isn't it?

Ali Bull
With the music getting good finally.

Yeah. I mean, if they had an ipod, you could imagine them cruising the waves, holding onto an exotic fern, looking at a beaver. Linnaeus dedicates one of his works on plant categorization too, huh, Linnae? Oh, yeah, yeah. He doesn't.

He's the one who did all that all that stuff. Whilst the south african bird of paradise flowers named Strelitzia reginae in her honor, she's got a pretty flower named after her. Stylitz is a cool name. In 1800, Charlotte introduces the Christmas tree to England. Oh, yeah.

Graham Duke
So she decorates a yew tree with fruit and baubles and brings it into the, brings it into the house and everyone seeing cows around it and stuff. I imagine as a botanist, that would have drove her mad. These trees do not produce fruits. I thought I always attributed that to George. No, Albert.

Albert, yeah. So it is often attributed to them. So she is the first one to bring the Christmas tree. It doesn't really spread beyond aristocratic and particularly royal circles until Victoria and Albert. So it's Victoria and Albert that really make it a big thing that all the middle class families do and copy.

And also it's them that makes it a fir tree. It's a yew tree that Charlotte brings it. So it still is really Victoria and Albert that we get the custom from. Which ones are yew tree? Oh, yeah.

Ali Bull
Oh, they're horrid. They can, I mean, they're fascinating, though, yew trees, they're really, really old. And actually, they're really, really old. Why is she doing this? Oh, dear.

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Rocketmoney.com wondery. But nevertheless, you know, give her a tick there. She is the first to bring it to the country. Yeah. So it's not a new thing for, like, the royals when she brings it, when Albert says, we should have one of these.

Ali Bull
Right, okay, so why is he credited? It just makes it big because then. Everybody in the country does it. Whereas with Charlotte, it's more of a thing in the royal family. She's also a very generous donator to charity.

Graham Duke
So she gives well over 5000 pounds a year to charities and individuals, which at the time had been obviously a lot more money, is now often spends considerably more than she could actually afford as well. So George always has to be generous to settle her accounts. And she continues the medieval tradition of the consort supporting the St Catherine's Hospital in London. That goes back to 12th century, I think. Oh, right.

Eleanor and Matilda Boulogne, or something of the first. It's an almshouse by now, rather than an actual hospital, but still also got the. Yeah, now, I know in Oxbridge, it'd been maudlin. Stick with Magdalen. Makes you sound clever.

Magdalen Hospital, which is a refuge for penitent prostitutes and a maternity hospital that still operates today, is the Queen Charlotte and Chelsea Hospital and continues her passion for education. So supports Phoebe Wright's embroidery School for Girls of good families in London and also a spinning school for poor working girls in Windsor. Nice. And charity could also be spontaneous. There's one occasion she's forced to take shelter in a cottage in Windsor during a storm.

And the woman who takes her in doesn't know who she is, so apologizes for having nothing but bread to offer. How she'd once been famed for her bacon, but now she's poor and her daughter's poorly, etcetera. So Charlotte says to her, well, my good woman, I do not despair of seeing your bacon rack again, well stored. And when it is, remember, I bespeak a spare rib of you, as I am remarkably fond of pork. I'll give you bacon forever if you give me a sandwich when I come round.

So, sure enough, Charlotte returns to winds after the storm, sends the woman funds for her daughter and also for the woman to buy a pig. And the woman's so grateful that she later walks all the way to Windsor to present her with the spare rib. Oh, nice. And Charlotte pays for a return journey by coach. Oh, she'd dine out on that story for the rest of her life.

Ali Bull
That's lovely. So, you know, we've got intellectualism, cultural, charitable patronage, even a Christmas tree. As I said, it's a bit of a modern for a model for modern queenship, in a way. And understandably, Fanny Burney described her as an exemplary queen. I think we've got to give her points here.

If we were not giving her scandal points and she did spend the time trying to do this instead. Yeah. Now, there are negatives as well. Charlotte and George, famed for abstemiousness and frugality, and the british court is seen as being one of the dullest in Europe at this time. Yeah.

Graham Duke
As you said, george, nicknamed Farmer George for his agricultural pursuits. Charlotte is portrayed as a penny pinching housekeeper and she's very much the antithesis of the colourful, flamboyant world of Regency England. I mean, is there even a court? Because they're not having anyone. Yeah, there is.

They're just not, you know, they don't really go for it. They're just doing bureaux rather than parties. She even bans, you mentioned earlier the ostrich feathers that Georgina, Duchess of Devonshire, briefly makes into the must have accessory for ladies at court. Bans them? Yeah.

I mean, to be fair to Charlotte, she bans them because they're prohibitively expensive and not everyone can get hold of them. Oh, that's nice. So it's more of a leveller. Yeah. So it's actually quite a nice thing, in a way, but at the same time, that sort of excess and colourful nurses, antithesis of Charlotte's world.

Ali Bull
Yeah, they are. They're prohibitionists, aren't they? Yeah, in a way, yeah. Her friend Lady Harcourt reflected that having come to England with natural good spirits, eagerly expecting to be queen of a gay court, finding herself confined in a convent and hardly allowed to think without the leave of her husband checked, her spirits made her fearful and cautious to an extreme. And when the time came that amusements were allowed, her mind was framed to a different manner of life.

Graham Duke
So, in other words, she comes to England young, vivacious, full of beans, but then is just ground down into. Yeah, she's so George that by the time that she could actually have come out and had some fun. Her mind has been rewired. She no longer can do fun. That's a bit like having kids.

Yeah. But 15 of them. Oh, God. Yeah. And they.

And they stay at home as well? Certainly the daughters do. On her death, the times dismissed her as being a consort without any splendid or commanding endowments, altogether domestic and unvaried. And the historian, therefore, more than unusually uninviting. Now, you know, there's obviously two sides to that, because the other side of that is the stability and the respectability and whatnot is sort of deliberate, but it's not fun and colourful.

Ali Bull
No. Unfortunately, Charlotte does seem to have been sucked into that hanoverian tradition of making life miserable for your children. She's unable to switch off the formality of her royal position to really show her children any affection, so always calls her oldest daughter the princess royal. Really? Even in private, she's the Princess royal.

Graham Duke
The Prince of Wales wetness noted that while the king, George III, would throw off all inhibitions when playing with his young children, not so much older on the approach of the queen, at all times nicknified and strict, especially with the Duke of York, his Majesty would assume a royal demeanor and stop the games. Really. So it's this unfortunate sense of like, oh, oh, no, mum's here. Come on, let's stop. Sensible.

Now. So she's sort of in her own prison? Within the prison, yes. Oh, man. And then, despite that sort of excellent education that she provides for her daughters and all that, they're sort of really new and not exactly radical, but very forward thinking things that she reads.

Again, it's this sort of trap that many parents, even now, will have, where there's the theory and there's the practicality. And she's very good at giving advice, but isn't able to do it in action. So, as adults, her daughters become domestic prisoners. Her court is nicknamed the nunnery, so no excursions unless closely chaperoned. No variation from Charlotte's rather dull timetable without very special permission.

No works of fiction that Charlotte hasn't approved. They can't even be visited by an unmarried brother unless another lady is present. And this is going to hurt daughters, like in their thirties. Oh, my word. So, of the six daughters, only three of them are ever actually able to get married.

Two of them in their forties, they are prisoners, they just get stuck at home. Now, partly that is George's fault. He doesn't really want to arrange their marriages. He likes having them around. And Charlotte does try to arrange some stuff, but equally as she gets older, she kind of does the same thing as well.

Ali Bull
If he didn't have the power that he did, I think the power that he has actually makes them safer, because if he didn't have the power, I think he'd be keeping them in the basement.

Graham Duke
So none of her six daughters have legitimate children? Legitimate because some of them probably do actually have affairs and secret, illegitimate children. No wonder. Exactly the sort of thing George and Charlotte didn't want to avoid. But by being so incredibly strict, they end up creating that.

We see that, of course, with the sons as well. Have all these illegitimate marriages. Understandably, the anxieties of George's illness have an effect on Charlotte. She becomes increasingly ill tempered and not very nice to be around, and her daughters really bear the brunt of that. So, in 1804, Lord Glenbervy noted that her temper had become intolerable and her daughters were rendered quite miserable by it.

So even when her daughter Amelia is dying in 1810, Charlotte declares that she was being. She was disappointed with her and that it was selfish of Amelia to demand so much attention. Golly, she really is Lady Button. So it gets so bad that in 1812, the remaining four unmarried daughters actually issue her with an ultimatum, wanting their own establishments. How old are they at this point?

Oh, thirties. Forties. Yeah. That should have happened quite a long time. Unfortunately, she, of course, rages against them when they do this.

They have to appeal to the Prince regent for help. So he invites them to escort his daughter to the state opening of parliament as a way to just, you know, get them out and about on a more official way. But Charlotte then accuses them of the highest mark of indecency possible in going to public amusements while their father's in his melancholy situation. Gosh, are you bringing me down on a Monday, Graham? And she is a bit unpopular by the time she dies.

So she had been celebrated for supporting George during the regency crisis. You could say she isn't able to be a more unifying figure now, whether that's really her fault or if it's that she's just forced into that position by the prince and the Whigs, maybe it wasn't possible for anyone to do that. Maybe she had to take the stance that she did. Nevertheless, during the actual regency, she does support her son. She is actually very close to the princess most of the time.

That was unusual, that they were against each other. So she supports him against his estranged wife, whom she'd never liked. But again, that's a bit political, because the estranged wife is now the best mates with the Whigs and the opposition. So Charlotte loses a pr battle there and becomes quite unpopular. So in 1817, she's actually jeered by crowds.

Ali Bull
God. It's a real turnaround, though. It's a really hard one to place as well, just looking at a picture of George II over there. But then there's a generation missing. Yeah.

And this is 1812. Caroline of Ansbach was this sort of weird one where it's more modern and enlightenment, but it was like she was an enlightenment queen for that sort of period. It wasn't medieval, but it also wasn't modern, somehow. Yeah. Charlotte feels like the first of a modern sort of queenship, that you can see the Windsor monarchy and that some of the stuff they're doing, the visits, the charities, that sort of stuff.

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, the bad stuff was, again, just directed at her family. And it's so, you know, it's a long time she's queen, which obviously we're coming to in longevity, but she's queen for a very long time, and everything is so messed up by what happens to George, which isn't her fault. But you think the stuff that she does do as consort and how she would have been most of the time as queen, it feels like it is pretty good consorting. Yeah.

I think it's a. It feels like a really good score because it's really good public facing things and it's so good because she's allowed, she's found a way to take all the bad and turn it backwards to her family. So I think I would love to be her subject and it's really good. We haven't had a list like that for ages of all good works. No, I mean, obviously, with Caroline, we had.

Graham Duke
She did do quite a few, so we had, like, the inoculation smallpox. Encouraging and that sort of thing. It's been literally since the last time we've had this, but it is what we want to see. Yeah, yeah. Eight.

Ali Bull
Yeah. Nice farms. I'm thinking a seven. It doesn't. Sort of something that massively wows me, but I think it is good.

Graham Duke
Seven and eight. That's a 15 for subjectivity. Longevity. Well, we are now moving into Charlotte territory. She's queen consort from the 8 September 1761 to the 17 November 1818.

Ali Bull
Wow. 57 years and two months. So 57.17 years. What year? 1660.

Graham Duke
317. 61. Yeah. For that sort of time. Yeah.

So that gives her a score of 18.5 for longevity. That's the second best overall, and indeed she is the longest serving queen consort. So she's only second to Prince Philip. So second longest consortship, longest for queen consortium. Yeah.

Ali Bull
She was always gonna score big here. Dynasty, not the broken. Well, we said about how they had the 15 children. Three of them do die, sadly. Two in infancy, one as an adult.

Graham Duke
But nevertheless, that means that Charlotte and George. Well, Charlotte particularly has twelve surviving children when she dies. Yeah. Which gives her a score of 20 out of 20. That is the best for the series, and it's the joint best with Edward the elder that we've had in Rex Factor.

Ali Bull
Wow. Nevertheless, though, 20 out of 20 for dynasty. So that gives her a total score of 60. So she started pretty slowly, but she's ended up so far that put her 9th overall. So just overtaking Catherine of Aragon.

Graham Duke
But it's not all about the score. Does she have that certain something, the lasting legacy, the great achievement in star quality that we call Rex factor? Well, I feel in a cromwellian way, she would be very. I'd be very disappointed to learn I had star quality. What is all this?

Ali Bull
Celebrity? So, no, I think, no, if she. Was going to get it, it would be the fact that she is queen for that long and she does sort of kind of set a standard or a bit of a model for the modern queenship. So in a way, that is sort of a legacy. We've got that cultural, charitable patronage, the strong sense of public duty, etcetera.

Graham Duke
So that would be the legacy, I guess, if she were to get throughout. That would be the argument for it, that she does that, but not the other bit, not the star quality. You don't have to have everything, though. Some have got great star quality without huge achievements. But I think that if you're going to go on big achievements and not have the star quality, I'm not sure that her achievements are big enough.

So it's a very sad life in many ways. And she is sort of Hatford. But I agree. I don't think she's got that certain something we're looking for. Can you imagine the celebrations if we did give it to her?

Ali Bull
Be like, you've, hello, you've won the Rex Factor. Would you sort of give it in a certificate, maybe framed, nothing too glitzy, and just pop. Just popping quietly into a very severe and quiet room. I just. I don't know if this is the right time.

Graham Duke
I do have to play this loud music. Just ignore that. Yeah, yeah. It would like, be giving her the birthday treatment in a restaurant or something. Yes.

Ali Bull
Not enjoy it correspondence. So that is. No, unfortunately, Charlotte of Mecklenburg Strelitz does not have the Rex factor. No. Let us know what you thought about her, whether you think she deserved more from us.

Graham Duke
You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at rexfactorpod, email rexfactopodcastotmail.com or go to rexfactorpodcast.com for more information. Hang on. Did George III get it? You said yes, I said no. So he didn't get it.

Ali Bull
Okay, fine. Good. So he got closer. But I don't like him anymore. I think I liked him, didn't I?

Graham Duke
Yeah. Weird. If you'd like to support the podcast, be sure to subscribe or whatever podcast provider you use and donate monthly to join the Privy Council and get access to over 200 bonus episodes. Patreon.com, Rex Factor and discord and all that. Join the discord chat.

And we have some new privy councillors to welcome to the fold. Miss A. Wright, Cl Dend, Julie Walton, Samuel Thomason. Bridget Sullivan, Justine Dorn, Arwen Hamm, Jess Latterman, Andreas Reif, Kathryn Cooch, Sarah L. Tim Diamon, Simon Hood, Doomfrog, Vivian Gorowski, Bex Kearns, Sue, George, Cynthia Cooper, Nicola Tal, Jamie Robinson, Julie Ann Spence, Molly Tacoberry, John Crowley, Theresa McDonald and Jonathan Girard.

Ali Bull
Arise. Welcome, wonderful people that you are. Dedicated, loyal listeners. Doomfrog was my favourite there this week. Well done, Doomfrog.

Graham Duke
And that is it for us today. Next time you'll be happy to hear Ali. It will be a change in tone because we will be reviewing the consort of George IV, the notorious Caroline of Brunswick. Okay, pretty sure we've already done her, but never mind. Well, we've done him and we talked about her.

Ali Bull
Oh, right. It's another Caroline. Last time we did Caroline of Ansbach. Next time we're doing Caroline of Brunswick. But who's the person that I think they all are?

Graham Duke
Catherine of Braganza. Yeah, I think. I thought Catherine of Braganza was. Who's next week, Charlie? Caroline of Brunswick.

We're not doing anyone else called Catherine. Catherine of Brunswick is the not who we're doing. No, but it's like the perfect. Yes, that's another one of yours. Yes.

Your medieval one was Adelisa of Boulogne, I think. Yeah. Who didn't exist. And then you've got. Didn't exist at all.

No. There was Adelisa of Louvain and there was Matilda of Boulogne.

I confused you because I did a pub quiz where I had Adelisa of Boulogne as an option, because I thought you would be drawn to it, because that was somehow this name. And sure enough, you did go for that. Well done. Nicely done. Anyway, next time, it is Caroline of Brunswick.

That's one where it would be to dig out the scandal bell. Okay, good. See you next time. Bye.

Lindsay Graham
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