155. Overcoming Cultural and Generational Money Stories with Jannese Torres

This episode explores the intersection of personal finance and cultural identity, focusing on overcoming cultural and generational money narratives within marginalized communities.

1. Overcoming cultural and generational money stories is crucial for personal and financial growth.
2. It’s important to manage the emotional aspects of money, especially when outgrowing one's original socio-economic status.
3. Discussing finances transparently in relationships can prevent future conflicts.
4. Entrepreneurship can be a powerful tool for women and minorities to gain financial independence.
5. Financial knowledge and independence are key to making empowered personal choices.

1. Introduction to the Topic

Tori introduces the episode's theme and guest, highlighting the focus on cultural influences on money management. Jannese Torres: "Your ancestors survived so that you could thrive."

2. Jannese’s Personal Journey

Jannese discusses her path from a job loss to becoming a finance educator. Jannese Torres: "I turned my adversity into an opportunity, leading me to financial independence."

3. The Impact of Divorce on Finances

The discussion shifts to how Jannese navigated her finances during and after her divorce. Jannese Torres: "It’s crucial to have transparent financial discussions before and during marriage."

4. Entrepreneurship as Empowerment

Jannese and Tori explore how entrepreneurship can serve as a tool for financial and personal empowerment, especially for women and minorities. Jannese Torres: "Owning a business can reshape personal finance and contribute to community wealth."

5. Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the importance of financial education and independence. Tori Dunlap: "Being financially literate opens up opportunities and choices that can significantly improve one's life quality."

1. Understand Your Money Story: Reflect on how your background influences your financial behaviors and attitudes.
2. Open Communication in Relationships: Discuss finances openly with partners to ensure alignment and prevent future conflicts.
3. Consider Entrepreneurship: Explore entrepreneurship as a potential path to financial independence and empowerment.
4. Invest in Financial Education: Continually educate yourself about finances to make informed decisions.
5. Build a Support Network: Surround yourself with people who support and inspire your financial goals.

Feeling stuck and unsure how to break free financially? This episode is your wake-up call. Join host Tori Dunlap for an inspiring conversation with repeat guest, Jannese Torres, award-winning Latina Money Expert and author of the bestselling book "Financially Lit."
Jannese became an accidental entrepreneur after a job loss led her to create a successful Latin food blog, Delish D’Lites. Now, she helps her clients and listeners build successful online businesses that allow them to pursue financial independence and freedom.

In this episode, you'll hear Jannese's powerful insights on:

Why financial security is the key to unlocking your true potential
How to ditch the limiting beliefs holding you back
The art of negotiation & why you deserve to be fairly compensated
How to reframe your mindset for financial abundance
The power you have to change your community through financial literacy

Jannese is on a mission to educate marginalized communities on topics like entrepreneurship, investing, and financial independence. She's here to debunk the myth that wealth is reserved for a lucky few and show you exactly how to become "financially lit."

People

Jannese Torres, Tori Dunlap

Companies

None

Books

"Financially Lit" by Jannese Torres

Guest Name(s):

Jannese Torres

Content Warnings:

None

Jannese Torres

I always go back to, like, this mantra, if you will, where I get very metaphysical with it, but it's pretty much like your ancestors survived so that you could thrive. Okay, so we're not doing basic shit anymore. We're beyond that. We were talking about Book of Mormon before this, I'm trying to figure out. So I'm going to New York again, and New York's, like, my favorite place in the earth.

Tori Dunlap

We can start with this. This is fine. And I'm bringing my partner, and my partner has not been to New York, so I'm trying to decide. He is a massive Les mis fan. Like, knows more Les mis lyrics than I do, but he's.

He's a sports boy at heart. And so where I'm trying to figure out what is the musical that is not too musical y, if that makes sense. You know, the people in your life, they're typically your dad, right? And you're trying to find the musical that your dad will like and appreciate but is still fun for you, the more theatrical goer. So that's what we're dealing with.

So right now, I'm thinking Book of Mormon or six, but I've seen both of them many times before. This would be my fourth time for Book of Mormon and actually my fourth time for six. And so I am trying to also see a show that maybe we haven't seen. So if you have suggestions. I'm going to see Gatsby.

I think I'm going to see the notebook. Baby water for elephants. I still haven't seen Kimberly Akimbo. There's stuff that's on my list, and I have a week to myself before we start, and then he comes a week after. So we're.

We're gonna see what happens. Hi. Hi. Financial feminist. I'm thrilled you're here.

Thank you for being here. If you're an old too, but a goodie. Welcome back. And if you're new here. Hi, I'm Tori.

I have a theater degree, in case that wasn't obvious. And now I teach people about personal finance. Fucking crazy. We are a community now of 5 million people, which is absolutely wild. And actually, we talk a bit about it in this episode, but I'm a New York Times bestselling author.

We host this show, which is the number one money podcast for women in the world, and we just appreciate you being here. If you like the show, you can subscribe, you can share it with a friend. You can do all that. Today's guest is a repeat guest. She is a colleague and a friend of mine who is also a finance educator and her episode on side Hustles was still one of our most popular episodes.

So if you haven't listened to that one, go back and listen to that one. But Janice is back, baby. Janice Torres is an award winning Latina money expert. She became an accidental entrepreneur after a job loss led her to create a successful latin food blog, Delish Delights. Now she helps clients and listeners build successful online businesses that allow them to pursue financial independence and freedom.

Janice is on a mission to educate marginalized communities on topics like entrepreneurship, investing, and financial independence through her personal finance podcast, Yocaro de Niro. Her first book, Financial Aid lit, is out now and you can get a copy wherever books are sold. Today's episode we talk about Latina first gen finances, overcoming generational money stories, and the pressure that a lot of first gen and immigrants feel to, quote unquote, do the right thing when it comes to money. We also talk about managing the grief that comes with making different choices than your family wanted you to, and also outgrowing your friend group. All of that fun stuff, which is something I think we all experience, which is like, I have ambitions and I have goals and I need people around me who are gonna support those ambitions and goals.

We also talk about divorce and how to protect your finance in partnerships. She tells her story about her divorce that she went through and learned a lot. So if you are consciously uncoupling or something more dramatic than that, this is gonna be a good episode for you. Alright team, lets go ahead and get into it.

But first, a word from our sponsors. Look, Bumble knows youre exhausted by dating Alda. Must not take yourself too seriously. And six one since that matters. And what do I even say other than hey?

Jannese Torres

Well thats why theyre introducing an all new bumble with exciting features to make compatibility easier, starting the chat better, and dating safer. They've changed so you don't have to download the new bumble. Now.

Tori Dunlap

I gotta know what all the sticky notes are behind you. Oh, that's enrollment for my side hustle program. Latest launch. I love it. Yeah, if you're not watching on YouTube, she's got what, probably 30, 40?

Yeah. Little beautiful sticky notes with people's names on them. And I love, I like remembering that, like there are whole humans that invest in you as a creator and it's a nice reminder to just be like, these are actual people and be grateful for them. Yeah, it breaks my brain a little bit to think about because, you know, we have about 2 million on Instagram, over two on TikTok. So we're at, like, almost five now total.

And every once in a while, when I just need to, like, you know, touch grass, I google stadium seating. Like, how many people can you fit in a stadium? And, like, the biggest stadiums are about 100,000 people. There you go. And I'm like, oh, we've got 40, 50 of those.

Jannese Torres

That is perspective. Okay. Yep. Breaks your brain a little bit, makes you a little terrified, but, yeah, it's like, okay, there's actual people out there that you are serving and that you are in this community. Yep.

Tori Dunlap

Totally. We're really excited to have you back on the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your journey. It's still one of our most popular episodes where we talked about side hustle.

So if you are listening to this episode and you're like, haven't listened to the first one, I would recommend going back because it's a great one. We hosted the episode kind of together, but this time, we're, of course, focusing on you. So I would love to start the episode how we usually start episodes with money experts, which is by asking, what is your first money memory? What is the first time you remember thinking about money? I want to say it's something to do with my mom balancing a checkbook, which, if you're Gen Z, you probably don't even know what the hell a checkbook is.

Jannese Torres

So my apologies, but it was this thing that you would use to account your balances in your, you know, in your bank account, just basically keeping track of purchases. And I always saw her kind of managing the money in the household, but she was never the one to make all the money in the household. It was my dad. So there was this duality of, like, the women handle the money, but the men make the money. I think that's the first memory I have.

And then I realized, well, I want. To be the man. So I'm going to go figure out what the hell my dad's doing to make a bunch of money. And that's literally how I ended up being an engineer just like him, because I'm like, he's bringing in the bank. I want to do that, too.

Tori Dunlap

I love it. Yeah, I think that's a common response, which is just, yeah, so my parents manage money. Typically, what we draw from, if you are a new listener to the show, is we have a whole practice on this. In my book, is like, that your first money memory, to your point about how what it made you do in your career, it's very typically very indicative of, like, how, how you continue to manage money, what your money beliefs were as you continue to age. So it's always a fun little question we like asking of, like, dig into your financial trauma.

Jannese Torres

Yeah. Tell me more about your childhood. Feels a bit like therapy. It's an awesome icebreaker. I know you've had a lot of changes in your life, both personally and professionally, in the last couple of years.

Tori Dunlap

Give me the rundown on a few of those. Well, I quit my job, got a divorce, moved to another state, started a new relationship. Shall I go on? I mean, like, there's just been so much that's happened since I've started this platform, and it's been cool because there's, like, og followers who have followed along the journey and, you know, I guess I didn't realize, like, how much just you kind of sharing your life can inspire people to then make necessary changes in their lives. And so, as I've shared both my personal and professional, you know, milestones, if you will, I've just had so many people reach out and just be like, you know, thank you for helping me navigate this life stage, whether it is a breakup or, you know, learning how to transition from corporate to your own business and things like that.

Jannese Torres

So it's been cathartic almost to, like, share this stuff because you realize you're not the only one going through things. And I think it's the same thing with money. A lot of the times we feel like we're the only ones dealing with the situation. And when you find out somebody else is actually having the exact same struggle as you, it can make you feel better and it can give you that sort of boost that you need to start making some changes within your own life. Yeah, I think the thing I've realized about my work, about any, especially woman creators work, when it comes to money, is it's like, yes, we're really good at teaching you how to be better with money and the actual, like, you know, actionable steps.

Tori Dunlap

But people come to us for reassurance. They come to us to feel seen. They come to us to feel like, yeah, they're not alone and that they maybe have hope for the first time in their lives. And I think one of the things that you do really, really well in your content and in your own life is pun intended, but investing in yourself as your best asset. And I wish that more women understood how powerful it is to bet on yourself and to believe yourself worthy of opportunities and love and money and success.

So maybe just speak on that investing in yourself mindset that you've really had to, like, put to the test the last couple of years. Yeah, I think the best example is absolutely, like, making the decision to leave a nine year marriage, 16 year relationship. Even though I knew I had to do it, it wasn't a question of like, you know, is there something that we can work out here? It's just, it was an untenable situation. And just like, the loss of identity that happens when you decide to make a shift, whether it's like, oh, this whole group of people I'm no longer going to have a connection to, or this life that I imagined for myself is no longer going to exist.

Jannese Torres

I think that's the thing that scares the shit out of people more than anything. It's not knowing who that next version of yourself is going to be. And that is absolutely the case if you decide to, you know, quit your job and start a business or become a mom. There's so many things that you just, you hope you're making a good decision and you hope it's going to pay off in the future, but you don't have a hundred percent guarantee. And I think I've gotten really good with not needing the guarantee because I have very.

I have a lot of examples of, like, figuring shit out in my life when I look at kind of the things I've been through, the things I've been able to overcome. And I think a lot of us could do more of that self analysis, if you will, of just, what's all the shit I've actually overcome? And is this new thing that I'm facing the scariest thing I've been through? Probably not. You probably have some really great examples of you're being resilient.

And I think that helps me be able to invest in myself because I know I'm gonna figure shit out one way or another. You really have to just get to a place where you're confident in being able to navigate whatever life comes your way. And money absolutely helps you do that much easier. Right. We've had a lot of conversations on this show about loss of identity or, like, knowing you need to make a decision, but realizing that's going to be a life altering decision.

Tori Dunlap

And I think what a lot of people do is, to your point, they know the decision, right. It's what happens when you are about to fall asleep at night and there's something inside of you, something in your brain, something in your gut, that's just like, I'm not happy. This isn't it this isn't the life that I want. And that is an opportunity for you to either listen to yourself, to trust yourself, and to remind you that, like, if you start denying yourself what you know, you're literally gaslighting yourself to the point where your intuition won't speak up anymore. Yeah.

Like, it won't be there in the same way. Or you can say, I'm going to investigate this more and I'm going to figure out, yes, even if it's hard, even if it happens my entire life, you deserve a life that is deserving of you. Yeah. I always go back to this mantra, if you will, where I get very metaphysical with it, but it's pretty much like your ancestors survived so that you could thrive. Okay, so we're not doing basic shit anymore.

Jannese Torres

We're beyond that. Yep. Yeah. Well, and that's the first line of your book, right. She's carrying the heavy weight of her ancestors and their sacrifices.

Tori Dunlap

Talk to me about this weight that anybody feels, but especially first gen, second gen, like, how did this show up for you? Well, I think the sacrifices are very apparent in our faces, whether it's like your family literally left their home country. They don't speak the native language of where we live because, you know, they just came from somewhere else. They might not have paperwork. You know, they might be undocumented.

Jannese Torres

And so they can't even work a traditional job. There's just, like, a lot of examples of the privilege that you have that you're somehow supposed to maximize these privileges. And there is so much pressure, I think, for folks who are, you know, eldest daughters, first gen kids, people who have been given, quote unquote, the opportunity to pursue the american dream, to just make sure that you are squeezing out every single last drop of that. Because it's not only about you. It's about repaying the sacrifices.

It's about making mom and dad proud. It's about giving the family back home a reason to say, oh, this is why they had to leave, because this is what they were able to accomplish. And what I think happens is what we're seeing right now, there's like this collective burnout. A lot of people are just fucking tired because, well, and the pressure. The pressure is, you say that I'm just like, the pressure's nuts of, like, it's hard enough just to live up to your own expectations yet alone.

Tori Dunlap

The expectations and the stress and the weight of, oh, everybody's sacrificed for me to be here. I think it's also the fact that when you are given these privileges, let's say, just like being born an american, you have access to spaces that your family members did not, whether that's education or corporate jobs and things like that. And then you got to navigate these spaces on your own because nobody else knows what the hell's going on. You know? I couldn't ask my parents, hey, how do I fill out the FAFSA?

Jannese Torres

Or, like, how do I apply for student loans? Or how do I negotiate my salary? I don't fucking know. My parents been working in the same places for, like, 20 something years. They're like, you don't leave jobs.

You don't leave once you're there. And there's just this kind of clash that's generational in a sense, where their advice, it doesn't necessarily apply to, like, all of the things that we're having to navigate. And then there's just this feeling of overwhelm that, you know, compounds the issue. Well, obviously, this feeling is more intense for women, for people of color, if you're a member of any minority group. But, like, I see this, like, scarcity mindset or this, like, pressure in every single person and in myself, like, I am.

Tori Dunlap

You know, my partner is a white man, and what we've done over the past couple of years, since we started dating was like, hey, the realization that a lot of his beliefs in his family about, yeah, you stay in one job. You don't ask for more. You just keep your head down, and you do good work. And I'm having to coach him through, like, no, you are worth more. It's that John Mulaney quote where it's like, I didn't realize how I should be treated until my girlfriend was right next to me telling me how I should be treated.

The bus driver shouldn't talk to you that way. No, he shouldn't. So it's like. It's very much that, like, realization of, you know, you have, you know, all of the pressures and the privileges are not privileges of your skin color, of your gender identity, of your sexuality, all the rest of that. But also, it's just like, what did your parents teach you?

Or what did they not teach you? Or how do they manage money? How do they look at their careers? How do they think about their own self worth? And how did that then impact you?

Jannese Torres

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had the same situation with my partner. He. When I first met him, he's like, I don't have any credit cards. Like, my dad told me credit cards are devil because he listened to Dave Ramsey and he said, you should buy Dave Ramsey cash.

And I'm like, honey, unless you're going to buy a $500,000 home in cash, I'm going to need you to open a credit card and improve your credit score because your dad is not living in reality. And so it's just like, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, yeah. And to your point about, you know, I think about a lot. If you grew up in the United States and you had maybe parents, maybe even grandparents, great grandparents who grew up here, it's hard enough to navigate this financial system.

Tori Dunlap

Like, it's confusing, it's predatory. It's often just complete and utter bullshit. Yet alone, someone who is coming here for the first time, like, I've studied abroad, I tried to navigate other financial systems. It's hard enough. Like, I think that pressure is, again, the pressure and just the.

The realization of you're not starting at zero. You're starting at, like, negative 50 or negative 100 just to try to figure out what everybody else knows. Well, and if you want to take a look at just like, the wealth gap and the pay gap and how people of color are being asked to pursue the american dream with a third of the budget, half of the budget, and it's just like, when you get to the point where you hear all this bullshit about pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just work harder, it's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Latinas make fifty four cents to a white man's dollar. We literally don't get the same amount of money to do the same work.

Jannese Torres

So how the hell can we accomplish the same things and then somehow we're gonna project it as, oh, well, they just don't work hard enough or they don't pursue the right careers or they're just not educated, blah, blah, blah. It's a very toxic narrative. And that's why I think it's so important for the work that we're doing to diversify the conversations around money and also taking cultural context and putting it into the conversation because it's an essential part of this. Well, and what you mentioned, I want to, like, double click on that, dig deeper, is like, we know that, you know, if you're a woman of color, you're making less, but that Latinas specifically are one of the worst groups for income inequality. Compared to other women, definitely compared to white men.

Tori Dunlap

Talk to me about that a little bit more. And some of the reasons that you explore in your book for why this is. Yeah, well, you know, there's obviously a multitude of reasons why this is the case. Some of it is definitely attributed to, just like, the fields of work, excuse me, the fields of work that Latinas can find themselves in. One of the great examples is of the pandemic.

Jannese Torres

Latinas were overrepresented in the retail and, like, service industry space during the pandemic. And a lot of them had to leave the workforce because of everything that happened with. With COVID-19 and the pandemic. So there is that sort of, we're overrepresented in lower paying industries. That's playing a role.

But even when you equalize for education, there is still a pay disparity. And I share the story of Caridad Garcia, who was a counselor who found out that her employer was paying a fellow employee who was a white man. Like, I think it was like $10,000 more for the same job and, like, same experience, same qualifications, whatever. And when she brings it up to them, it's just like, well, there's nothing we can do, you know? And she ends up going off starting her own business, doing all that shit.

And it's just like, these jobs know what they're doing. And in the chapter of the book where I talk about the pay gap and how to negotiate for your salary, I end it with a letter to corporate America, because it's not just for us to fix this shit. You know, I can job hop till the cows come home. I can negotiate my salary. But.

But these companies are still funding politicians who are actively working against paid parental leave and paid sick leave. And, you know, we're the only industrialized country that does not have guaranteed time off that's paid. So it's just like, we can be part of the solution, but there has to be collective action. And we do need people in power to take accountability and responsibility for the system that they've created, but they're not going to because it is in their incentive to pay us as little as possible and send those profits over to investors. Which is why we also need to educate ourselves in that aspect of things, too, because that's a way that we can bridge the wage gap when these jobs just don't want to pay you what you deserve.

Tori Dunlap

Right? And then we also talk about the societal expectation beyond just the system that exists, but specifically the, okay, I'm asking for more money. And then the responses, while you're being greedy, why do you want more money? Or we're more likely to punish women who negotiate because all the data and the research is coming out now. That says women are negotiating slightly less than men, but it's a lot higher than it used to be.

So the problem is less women aren't negotiating, and more, when they do negotiate, they're either being punished, there's some sort of backlash, or just they're met with, who do you think you are? No, no, I'm not going to give you more money. It's like, okay, well, you're paying Chad more money, so what is that? Well, I also think that's why we see more and more women following a different path and deciding to explore entrepreneurship. Right.

Jannese Torres

Because that is the way that we can also become the system that we're trying to change. You know, I always tell people, like, if you get to a point where you actually can employ people as a business owner, you are actively bridging that wage gap. You are actively reshaping this capitalist system, and I do believe and offering the. Kind of benefits that everybody else should offer. Absolutely right.

Yeah. So we have to be a part of the change that we wish to see. And that's why, even though, you know, entrepreneurship is not for everyone, I do think that it is a powerful tool that we can utilize, especially as women and people of color, to reshape the system and create something new, because this shit's not working.

Tori Dunlap

I think you're the perfect person, actually, to talk to about this. Mark, I have wanted. Let me first say nine to fives. If you love that, if you're compensated fairly, if you feel like you're in a good company that treats you well and that, you know, you can at least tolerate, it's a job that you like enough that you're like, cool, great. I am not going to say, you know, okay, you have to become an entrepreneur.

Here's the thing, though, and I think you agree with me. A lot of people ask me, Tori, how did you become a millionaire? How did you go from $100,000 at 25 to a multimillionaire less than two years later? It was entrepreneurship, guys, facts. Yeah.

Yes, it was investing. Yes, it was saving. Yes, it was budgeting. But, like, 98% of it was because I started a business that was doing numbers and making good money. And especially when I barely had anybody working around me, like, all of that money was.

That was my money. So, again, I don't think you have to be an entrepreneur. I will say that there is a lot of shit you gotta deal with as an entrepreneur that I don't love and wish I wasn't a nine five all the time. But the flexibility, the opportunity and the potential money that's there is substantial. Absolutely.

Jannese Torres

And I think if we're getting real about how expensive it is to pursue the american dream right now, most of us are not going to be able to do that with a single income. You know, if you have aspirations to buy a home, to have a family, because literally, like, having kids at this point is a privilege for people with money because it's so goddamn expensive or. Even to rent in most cities you're in, are you Miami, Puerto Rico? Where are you at? I am in Tampa.

Tori Dunlap

Tampa, okay. Tampa's pretty expensive. Tampa seen explosive growth since the pandemic. I'm in Seattle. It's crazy.

Now, I think percentage wise, from where we were in 2019 to now, the percentage is one of the highest, if not the highest, in the country. So, yeah, shit's exciting. Expensive. Shit's crazy. Expensive.

Jannese Torres

Yeah. And if you want to make financial progress, you have to figure out other ways to make money. And ideally, that's you utilizing your existing skill set and turning it into some sort of side hustle. You never know if it's going to be able to blow up into a business. But I think even from, like, a financial security standpoint, because let's be honest, with all the layoffs that we've seen in the past couple of years, even those quote unquote, safe tech jobs and all that shit that people were telling you, just get into this industry, you'll be fine.

It's all bullshit. At the end of the day, these companies are beholden to investors. If their numbers aren't making sense, you're going to be the first to go. And you need to just be able to become your own money printer because you just never know when you're going to have to deploy that skill set. So I'm very much in favor of, like, everybody needs a side hustle.

It may not be something you're actively doing right now because you don't need it, but you better have a way to make money if and when that time comes, right? And even opening up a high yield savings account, something like that. Right. It like, is money is income. It's not a lot, but it's better than nothing.

Tori Dunlap

So, yeah, even just thinking, neither of us are advocates for hustle culture, right? But we are advocates for giving a trapdoor exit, and that's why the emergency fund's so powerful. That's why, to your point, like, diversifying your income sources. And again, that doesn't have to be more work right now, but just having the idea and the understanding of. Okay, I do get laid off.

What happens next? Okay, I do want to afford a house, and I'm willing to work maybe a little bit more for six months because this is the thing I really, really want, and it's going to set me up for success later. So, yeah, I appreciate you saying that. There's a line in the book, quote, no one talks about the grief that comes with growth. Oh, boy.

Oh, buddy, oh, buddy, oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. This one.

Share with me more about what this looks like for you and some of the women in your community. And I will also chime in because this quote just. Just hit me right where it hurt. Well, this is from the chapter that's called when Jenny from the block becomes Jenny with the bag. And I wanted to have a chapter specifically dedicated to this concept of wealth guilt, because everybody's out here telling us to go pursue that shit.

Jannese Torres

But, like, what about the feelings? What about all these emotions that I was not anticipating having to navigate? And, you know, being part of a community where, like, poverty and struggle is the norm, when you make it out of that and you come back and you realize how many people are still in that place, it's. It's a lie. Like, you feel guilt, you feel shame.

You have this sense of, why me? There can be things that, you know, cause you to self sabotage. People start asking for money. Everybody starts looking at you as the savior. Nobody explains to you how to navigate this stuff.

And so, for me, that grief that comes with growth is not being able to relate to the struggle anymore and potentially feeling like there are people in your community who you no longer have this direct connection with because you just have such different lives now. You know, it's hard to feel like the instructions that you were given to get out of the struggle now make you unrelatable to the people who gave you those directions. It's like this weird cycle of, but I'm supposed to do this, but why do I feel like the more I do this, the further away I get from the people who made me who I am? It's just a lot. It's a lot of shit to navigate.

Tori Dunlap

I will also say, just beyond the money in your bank account, too. One of the ways I interpreted this quote was, when you do start, we were talking about before investing in yourself, when you do start growing as a person, there are many people in your life who will not grow with you, who have either their own shit that they're dealing with or who don't have the same ambitions you do and who might be really kind people. But are they the people that make you the best version of yourself or situations that make you the best version of yourself? And, you know, we all know that quote that you are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. Are the five people even, let's call it, ten people that you spend the most time with.

The kind of people that inspire you, that push you to be better, that show up in their own lives so that they can show up for others. Because that's the thing that happens, too, is when you start realizing your own worth, when you start pursuing certain things, when you start being committed to your own growth and development, there's a lot of people who end up being left behind, and there's a grieving process for that, too. And again, it doesn't mean you never have to talk to them again, but it might mean that you reevaluate that relationship in a different way. Yeah. And you also reevaluate the advice because that's the thing, too.

Jannese Torres

You know, I always say I do not take advice from people whose lives I don't want to live. And I think that's just like a guiding light where I might tell you what's going on. But I'm not. I'm not actually asking for your approval or your consent because you have no fucking clue what I'm navigating because we are just living on completely different planes. And, like, one of those instances for me was when I decided to quit my job and I told my parents and they're just like, well, what do you mean?

Like, just do this thing on the side and, like, work your job and keep your healthcare and keep your pension? Yep. And literally the exact same conversation. They told me, do anything you have to do to keep your job. Exactly.

And I was like, you know what? I cannot expect them to understand what I'm doing because they are not the ones doing it. They do not have any context for this decision. So while I can respect their opinion, it does not apply. And I'm going to have to be okay with being the loudest voice in.

Tori Dunlap

My head and trusting that you will figure it out. The number one thing I see with women, and I'm sure you do, too, is that we have grown up in a society that constantly makes us doubt ourselves, that constantly tells us, you're not good enough, you're not this enough, you're not, you know, it's perfect or nothing, right? And we've talked about that on the show a million times, so it's not if you are listening a lot. This is going to sound like a broken record, but the thing about it is, it's like, there's something so powerful about a woman saying, no, I can do it. Yeah.

And if I don't figure it out, I'll figure that out. Like, you are trying to find answers to questions you don't even know yet. So, like, why is that preventing you from doing something that you know is right for you? Yeah, because it's a little scary. Yeah, everything's scary.

Jannese Torres

And we also need to remember, like, how many things have you already been through? You know, that, like, that bird's eye view of, like, what's all the shit I've overcome? What are all those hard things that I've done? Is this really the hardest thing I'm trying to do right here, right now? Probably not, you know?

So I think it's just give yourself some credit for all the shit you've already been able to accomplish, and realize, most of the time, we can figure it out. You just need the right information or the right resources or a mentor or something. But who is it? Murray Forleo. Everything is figureoutable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It absolutely is. Well, the really actionable version of this is, if you're not already keeping a hype sheet, keep a hype sheet, which is just you writing down everything that's gone well in your job, everything that's gone well in your life of, like, everything that you were like, oh, I figured that out, or, oh, I feel really accomplished about this. And we have it literally in our slack. A channel called nice things, which is when people say nice things to us about our work.

Tori Dunlap

And, like, when the trolls are just trolling way too hard. I go in to your point for about, like, the stadium example for me, or just the post it notes of, like, okay, there are real people I can impact. There are people I've impacted before I can do this again or whatever that looks like for you. Okay. I'm going in for that promotion at work.

Here are the five biggest things I've done in the past year where I'm deserving of that promotion or deserving of that relationship or whatever that looks like. Yeah. So, yeah, if you're not keeping a hype sheet, highly suggest it. It's very, very helpful. Absolutely.

I would love to talk about your divorce. I would love to talk about divorce and finances with prenups and all of that jazz. So, statistic from your book, 35% of people blame finances for the stress they experience in relationships. And I honestly I've seen stats that are higher. I think the number one cause of divorce or of a partnership breaking up is money.

It's like, stress around money. So I would love to discuss the need to evaluate financial compatibility before you make steps towards marriage or any, like, binding partnership. You know, I really wish I had been thinking about this when I decided to get married, because looking back at it, my partner and I could not have been on more different financial planes. Okay? Our value systems were completely different.

Jannese Torres

And I think, like, subconsciously, I knew that, and that's why we never commingled our finances. So even though we were together 16 years and married for nine, we had our own separate bank accounts, separate investment accounts. And I just always felt like, I don't want any part of this mess. But I thought it was enough to just be able to let him kind of handle his own chaos, as if it wasn't going to somehow impact me. Until I found out that he had maxed out a credit card to pay for legal fees for some DUI incident that happened.

And when I asked him, like, what the fuck? It was kind of just like, oh, but, you know, I'm going to pay it back, so it's fine. I'm going to pay you back. So, you know, there was just a series of, like, financial chaos in the marriage. And looking back at it now, well, and now being in a new relationship like that was honestly one of the first things that we talked about was money.

And that's how I found out, oh, this guy doesn't have credit score. Cause Dave Ramsey's fault, blah, blah, all that shit. But we've been so transparent about our financial values from the beginning. And, gosh, what a blessing it is to just know that from the start instead of finding out what somebody else has going on, like, a couple years in, when you're into deep, quote unquote. But that whole financial values is something that you really need to understand in the beginning, because it's going to make or break your relationship.

And it's funny because this chapter in the book where I talk about love and money was not even a part of the original book proposal. It was a function of the fact that I did go through a divorce during the writing of this book and opening up that part of my life to my followers. People were just like, holy shit. This is the first time we see a Latina talking about the importance of our prenup or talking about just the importance of having financial transparency in a relationship and financial abuse. All the things we touch on in that chapter.

And for me, it's been really powerful to just see how, again, an example of just, like, me being alive and sharing my story can motivate people to have these really uncomfortable but very necessary conversations, especially when we take into context the historical period in which we are living, where for the first time, women are actually even capable or legally allowed to create the level of wealth that we now have to protect. You know, so it's like when people are like, oh, why didn't anybody tell me about this prenup shit? Well, your grandma's not going to tell you about why you should have a prenup, because grandma couldn't have a house on her own, or grandma couldn't have a bank account in her name. So that's why nobody told you. But I'm here to tell you, you gotta protect that shit, because we've worked way too hard for it to be.

Now we're on the other side of things and having to pay alimony or whatnot to, you know, chaotic partners because we just didn't make the right decisions. I say this every time the word prenup comes in an episode, which is if you get married. Fun fact. You have signed a prenup, and it is the prenup that has been established for you by the state in which you were wed. So I live in Washington state.

Tori Dunlap

I believe it's a 50 50 split unless you decide otherwise. So, one, I don't want the government in my marriage. I'm okay. I don't. No, thanks.

I'm going to make that decision for myself. And two, again, there's all this shame about prenups or all this taboo around talking about it. You have signed one if you have been married. So I would like for you, and I hope you would like for you to have those conversations with your partner, for both of you to decide what works for you, rather than just what the government decide works for you.

Jannese Torres

I think also there's a lot of people who still don't understand the concept of, like, marital assets. I'm talking to entrepreneurs right now. Like, if you build a business during a marriage, guess what? That's a marital asset that is subject to divorce. If you write a book, those book royalties are subject to divorce.

Like, there's so much shit that you're building in this process that if you do not protect it, it is going to be catastrophic financially. And it is much easier to have these conversations when you're in love and you respect each other than when you are in divorce court and you want to poke somebody with a pencil in the eye. Okay. Right. And even if you decide for whatever reason, no, we don't need a prenup.

Tori Dunlap

Talking about money in this way, that's transparent. Like, it's not so much. It is definitely the legal document, don't get me wrong. But it's also the, like, act of having this much transparency with your money and realizing that, like, oh, this is something I care about, or, no, that isn't something I really care about. That's fine.

But you don't know that unless you've had the conversations. It. Absolutely. You can't talk about it enough, in my opinion. Yeah, it was something that my partner and I, I mean, I do money for a living.

It's the expectation you're gonna be friends with me, we're gonna talk about it. You're gonna date me, we're gonna talk about it. So. And it's. It's made our relationship so much better.

And, you know, there have been moments because, you know, I joke all the time, any man I'm gonna date, I'm gonna out earn. Absolutely. Same. And there's just this level of, like, you know, we've had great conversations about, like, masculinity of, like, you know, he is the least, you know, he's a golden retriever boy. Like, the least toxic person you could be around.

But, like, he's often, like, I remember early, especially, you know, we were having conversations where he's like, I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I feel like I need to, like, take care of you. And I feel guilty that I can't spend as much money. And I'm like, no, we're not in an equal partnership when it comes to money. We're in an equitable partnership. Like, if you and I live in an apartment together someday or, you know, buy a house, I'm not going to ask you to split rent with me 50 50.

That doesn't make any sense. We're going to split it based on what I make versus what you make. And so even having those kind of conversations about, like, what matters to you, what your values are, how you manage money, how the other person does, I think helps mitigate even the fact that you might need the prenup someday because you've already talked about it. Yeah. And that's why I put scripts in a lot of different parts of the book, because just having those initiation, just having a place to initiate a conversation or just some context for it, I think it's very helpful.

Jannese Torres

And so, like, a lot of the people who find out about the whole prenup thing, they're just like, well, how did you even have that conversation? Because that shit sounds like it would be very awkward. And for me, I deferred the responsibility to my CFP as to why I'm having the conversation. So I spoke to a CFP before I quit my job. She told me, xyz, you know, like, do this with your money and also get a postnup.

And so I brought it up to my ex husband, and I was like, hey, I'm quitting my job. I'm taking on this financial risk. I want you to be sheltered and insulated from it in case it does go wrong. And so this post nuptial agreement is going to be a way to protect you from that risk that I'm taking. And it was a very, like, easy conversation to have when you have that context versus just like, oh, well, why are you talking about this?

You just want to get divorced, so you plan to take all my money. So it's just depending on who you're with, you're going to have to bring it up, you know, in whatever context makes sense. But. But if somebody is really, like, resistant to it, that shit's a red flag to me. And there's probably, like, other red flags.

Tori Dunlap

That you've been ignoring that you should. Probably start to pay attention to. If they're not going to be willing to talk to you about one uncomfortable topic that they understand is important to a relationship, they're probably not going to talk to you about other things. Like, if you feel like you can't bring up money, maybe you can't bring up sex or pleasure in your relationship. Maybe you can't bring up your values.

Maybe you can't bring up, do we want children or not? Like, yeah, I think that talking about money, because it is the hardest thing to talk about statistically. And we know just from talking with people, if you can't bring up money, it's going to be a hard road to bring up anything else. Uncomfortable to. Absolutely.

I love this concept in your book of being financially unfuckable with, and I have the same perspective. I've mentioned many times that there is something so powerful about having your own money because you don't have to deal with shit anymore. Somebody disrespects you, you're out on a date. Cool. I put my card down and I don't have to worry about him buying because I'm the date zone.

I'm good. I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. I can afford my own apartment. I don't like this job anymore. I can leave.

It's something so powerful, even something like, oh, I had maybe one too many drinks, or it's really dark outside and I could take the train home. But no, I'm going to be safe, and I'm going to be able to take an Uber. Yeah. Like, something about that is so powerful, so break down what it means to be financially unfuckable with. Yeah, I mean, it's exactly what you talk about.

Jannese Torres

It's the sense of just knowing that you've got your own back financially. So you do have the ability to make decisions that are not influenced by money. You're not forced to stay in that relationship. You're not forced to live in that apartment that is roach infested and loud, fucking obnoxious neighbors. You just have options.

And when you know that you have your own back, I feel like as a person, it just helps you carry yourself with this sense of confidence, like. Everything in your life changes. You just can't fuck with me. I just. I don't even have the energy to be stressed about this shit because I know at the end of the day, this is easily resolvable with a couple dollars and some time invested, you know, to just make that change.

So I think more of us need to see money as that. As a tool to have options in life. Why we're still preaching this bullshit narrative of money doesn't buy happiness. Okay, fine, it might not be happiness, but I know I'm happy when I'm not stuck in a toxic fucking relationship. I know I'm happy when I don't have to tolerate a boss who keeps giving me the runaround about getting a promotion even though I'm doing three people's fucking jobs.

I know I'm happy when, if my car breaks down, I can walk into a dealership, sign a lease, or buy a car and not have to worry about, like, where the hell that down payment is going to come from, from. That makes me fucking happy. So we can agree to disagree, but at the end of the day, we aren't actually pursuing money. The folks who talk about, like, the importance of building wealth, we're not actually pursuing money. The number in the bank account.

We're pursuing what money gives us choices, which is the freedom to make fucking choices that are aligned with the lives that we want to live. Yeah. I say in my book, I don't want a stack of government paper because that's what money is. Right? That doesn't get me anything.

Tori Dunlap

It's a stack of paper. I want what money can buy me. And to your point about money can't buy you happiness, another section of my book where I literally debunked that, where I'm like, yes, in theory, if you're going out trying to buy a Ferrari and thinking, my life will be better and you're using material things to provide you happiness, of course that's not going to work. But money can buy you safety and stability and ease and pleasure, and I would argue that happiness. So hells to the yes.

Tell me it can't buy happiness. Yeah. One of the things with that financially unfuckable with thing as well is I love this. You know how to negotiate pay raises, client contracts, bills, and interest rates, like, your fucking business. Because it is.

And I just wanted to discuss that for a second. I love this idea of, like, it is your business because it's your actual, like, you're running a business, which is how much you're spending on things and how much money you're bringing in. So maybe just talk to me about that. Of, like, this reframe of like, no, every dollar is like a dollar for your business, which is you. Well, you know, it's funny, because when I think about the people who I saw doing this in my life, especially growing up as a kid, like, it was always the men.

Jannese Torres

My father was an excellent negotiator. Like, he never took face value as the price for something. He was always just like, there's room here to haggle. And I don't know why, but I just felt like that's just something that men do. And it's funny because my partner is absolutely, like, that person, too.

He's like, will not pay full price for anything. But absolutely. Like, I think too many people have this idea where you just got to accept what you're given. And one of the first examples I've had of that that was not the case, was when I negotiated my first six figure salary. You know, they came in at, like, 95, and I had this idea in my head, like, nah, I want a hundred.

And I was scared shitless, but I asked for it, and I got it, and there was no resistance, and it was just like a light bulb. Like, holy shit, I can actually get what I want, but I have to ask for it. And so I always go back to this quote that my father has said since I was a kid, which is the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and it's like, you gotta make some fucking noise if you want people to pay attention to you. And when we're talking about, you know, advocating for your money, you gotta get a little loud sometimes so somebody pays attention. Yep.

Tori Dunlap

Squeaky wheel gets the grease was a common phrase in my family as well. And my mom said it, too, about opportunities. Like, I've told this story before, but I wanted to be on the Today show really badly, and I just pitched and pitched and pitched, and they would not take me. And I got creative and started posting on TikTok, and I politely bully people until they get me what I want. And, no, it's just not now.

It doesn't mean no forever. Absolutely. There's a million rejections you get on a daily basis, but you just gotta keep going. And I think that mindset of just knowing that it's not, no, it's not right now is so powerful. I always go back to this quote whenever I'm feeling, like, this.

Jannese Torres

Pressure to just achieve something now, which is what is meant for me, will wait for me until I'm ready to receive it. And so I think that helps me realize, like, I don't actually have to do all this shit at once. I don't actually have to check off all of these things right here, right now, but I know that if I want it, it's out there. And it's going to come when I have the mental, emotional capacity to accept that, too. Right?

Because when we think about pursuing wealth, it also requires a shift in your mindset. And if you are given access to excessive amounts of wealth that your mindset has not caught up to being able to manage properly, it's a fucking waste of time. You're not actually equipped to be a good steward of them. And it's your job to now invest some more time and energy so that when that opportunity does come for you, you're ready and able. What is one feeling you want for every single woman, but especially every single latina?

The idea that they are limitless in their potential. And, you know, one of the things I talk about in the book is, like, I want it to be very normal to be like, the millionaire next door and be a woman of color, because so often we have examples in our community of, like, what it means to be successful. It's the singer, it's the dancer, it's the actress, it's the movie star, blah, blah, blah. And I just want regular schmegular girlies with seven figures net worth to be my neighbor, whose name happens to be like Maria Gonzalez. You know, I want us to really believe that we have the potential to be the change that we wish to see.

And I hope that this book empowers whoever reads it to understand that where you start is not where you have to finish. And that there's something so incredible when you are financially whole and financially stable, you get to change the system for everybody else. Like you get to work to change the system that fucks everybody over because your cup is full, you're stable, you're content, you're not worried about where's the next check coming from? How am I going to pay my rent this month? Where are my groceries?

Tori Dunlap

Like when you're content and stable and when you've worked to that financial stability, you get to change the system for everybody else. Absolutely. You know, I think too, it's how powerful money can be to reshape the communities that we're from. Right? A lot of folks from black and brown communities might be seeing things like gentrification happening and you can actually be an active role player in curbing that, in stopping that.

Jannese Torres

By having enough wealth to reinvest in your neighborhoods, to be the landlord of that building instead of some fucking guy who lives 3000 miles away who is just, you know, charging predatory prices. You can be the one that says, I'm going to buy this apartment building and I'm going to give people affordable housing. And I'm from this hood. I understand what people need here. There's so much power that we have to influence the world that we live in.

And like it or not, in this capitalist society, money is that powerful. And so if we want to actually be able to change things, we have to become the ones with the power. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited for your book. As of this recording, it is already out.

Tori Dunlap

Tell people where they can go get a copy. Yes, you can get the physical copy as well as the audiobook at financially litbook.com. And you can also find out about my upcoming book tour. I would love to see you in your city, give you a hug and remind you that you too can be financially lit. I love it.

Jannese Torres

Thank you. Thank you for your work. I love it. I always love talking to you. Thanks so much to Janice for joining us.

Tori Dunlap

You can get her book financially lit wherever you get books. And you can listen to Yocaro, Dinero, wherever you're listening right now. So thanks for being here, as always. We appreciate you. Hope you have a kick ass week.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to financial Feminist, a her 1st 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap produced by Kristen Fields associate producer Tamisha Grant Research by Ariel Johnson Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Metcalf Marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda Lafue, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bachmakeva, Taylor Cho, Kayla Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Coronan, Daryl Ann Engman, and Janelle Reasoner. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen. Sound a huge thanks to the entire her first hundred k team and community for supporting this show. For more information about financial feminist her 1st 100k our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com dot.