150. How to Fearlessly Pivot with Rebecca Minkoff

Rebecca Minkoff

You have to put blinders on. You can't look at social media and you go, what do I want my life to look and feel like? And how do I begin to build that? Slowly. And there is no balance.

You know, it's like optimization of what you have. It's some days I'm a great mother, some days I'm a great worker. Some days I'm a great friend. I'm not all things, all the time.

Tori Dunlap

Hi, financial feminists. Welcome back to the show. I am thrilled to see you. Thank you for being here. As always, if you are new to the show.

Hi, my name is Tori. I fight the patriarchy by making you rich. I teach you how to save money, pay off debt, start investing, start businesses, and we talk about how money affects women differently on this show, it is the number one money podcast for women in the world, which is so cool and never gets tired of saying it. And if you're an oldie but a goodie, you knew all that already. Welcome back.

Welcome back to the show. Today's episode is a really great one with someone I have admired and whose businesses I have admired for a very long time and who is very much the definition of someone who just supports women and advocates for women and teaches them how to do what she did. So today's guest is Rebecca Minkoff, an industry leader in accessible luxury handbags, accessories, footwear and apparel, Rebecca Minkoff's modern bohemian designs are inspired by strong, confident and powerful women who are drawn towards a west meets east mentality. Rebecca Minkoff is a global brand with a wide variety of apparel, handbags, footwear, jewelry and accessory products. In September of 2018, she established the female Founder Collective, a network of businesses led by women who invest in women's financial power across the socioeconomic spectrum by enabling and empowering female owned businesses.

She introduced the RM Superwoman podcast in 2017 after hosting sold out table talks out of her NYC flagship Soho boutique. In intimate Cheryl interviews Rebecca uncovers the many sides of powerful women and learned how they are raising up those around them to make the world a kinder, more inclusive place. In 2021, Rebecca Minkoff became a bestselling published author and simultaneously entered the world of web three as the first american female fashion designer to unveil a collection of branded nfts. Time to New York Fashion Week, which sold out in under eight minutes. And that's actually where I met Rebecca for the first time, was a dinner.

To kick that off, we talked about the launch of her iconic fashion brand and the highs and lows of running a company and one of the most volatile industries that are out there. We dig into the idea of a customer avatar and why that's such an important part of your business. Something I love about Rebecca is how she is willing to innovate and try new things, even if they weren't immediately successful. So we talked about ways she's pivoted to try things like nfts and even starting an only fans. We'll talk more about it.

We also talk about her book, fearless and her work with the female founder collective. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it.

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Truly, and I will say this now that we're recording on Mike, but I would say this to you offline, too. It was one of the best events I've ever been to. Like, it was just like the connections were so important. Literally, I think Korina and I, who's our coo, literally have said to each other, oh@the.net. Retreat, like, probably once a week since we got back, so at least.

Yeah, so it was just. It was such a great event, and it was so nice to finally see you again and meet the team and, yeah, it was just. It was just great. We loved it. I'm so glad we're talking about another one for again in the fall.

Rebecca Minkoff

So CBD. Okay, keep me posted. Would love to be there for around two. Yeah. So great.

Tori Dunlap

I'm so excited to have you. So excited to have this conversation. We typically ask our guests, especially who are business owners or who are finance creators, what their first money memory is. What is the first time that you remember thinking about money? I thought about money when I was eight years old and I wanted this dress.

Rebecca Minkoff

It was dollar 20, and my mom said, no. She said, I'll teach you how to sew instead. That's when I actually got hooked. So I hated her for it. But then I loved the fact that I could make whatever I wanted after she taught me how to sew.

Tori Dunlap

Yes, you were frustrated in the moment, and then you were like, all right, but now I can do whatever I want to do. Yes, yes. And then she would sell these things. They're called cast covers. They were, like, trendy in the eighties, like, almost.

Rebecca Minkoff

Imagine, like, spandex for your cast in, like, neons. And she would sell them at the flea market. And I was like, well, I'm gonna sell something, too. And so I would sell what I made. No one bought anything of mine, but I, like, got very excited about my little card table at the flea market with my things that I made so well.

Tori Dunlap

And little did they know that they could have bought something off of you, pre true Rebecca Minka off everything. And it would have probably been worth a good chunk of money now. That's so fun. I know. Yeah.

I love the story. No, I'm not going to buy it for you, but I'll teach you. And, like, ultimately, that, that is such a parent response, which is great looking back, but, yeah, so frustrating when you're a kid, you're like, no, I just want this right now. Well, I do it now to my kids, and I hope it sticks. Always saying no.

Rebecca Minkoff

Always. I'm like, no, but you can earn it. Or no, I'll teach. And if I know how to make it, I'm like, you're going to learn how to make it. My next question for you is, when did you become interested in fashion as a career path?

Tori Dunlap

But I feel like it's started at eight years old, maybe. What was that journey like, for you. So the journey was, I was eight. I fell in love with sewing. I then hit my teenage puberty years, and I was a painfully thin, very awkward, not confident, very tall, gangly girl.

Rebecca Minkoff

And I couldn't find clothing to fit. But what I could do is I could alter it. So I became obsessed with buying stuff at thrift stores, buying fabric, making things fit my own body. And that gave me a lot of confidence, and it was something I pursued very seriously in a high school. It was a performing arts high school that I went to, and it was like, what?

I got to work on 4 hours of every day because that was your elective. And so after figuring out that I love this and want to pursue it, I said, I have to go to New York. That's where fashion is. And I moved to New York at 18 with an internship I want to come back to. And I will round back to what you just said, which I think is so important, which is like tailoring clothes to fit your body and how confident that makes you, because I just had that experience for the first time recently.

Tori Dunlap

But let's talk about the journey of that. So you moved to New York at 18, and you had some success, but it wasn't really till you developed the morning after bag that things started exploding for you. Can you walk us through the stages of starting out to launching your business and then to growing to 100 million in revenue? Yes. So I launched the handbags in 2005.

Rebecca Minkoff

It was one handbag. Things were so much slower then. You could have one handbag in many colors. And the appetite for this more more didn't exist yet because social media was non existent. And with a couple of key publications, daily candy, if you're old enough to remember, and a bunch of celebrities wearing the bag, like, things took off very quickly.

So we very quickly grew from, you know, 200,000 to a million to 5 million to ten. And it was this crazy experience to be growing that fast. But what a lot of people don't know is you don't have the money to pay for that growth. So we were bootstrapping, and my brother was mortgaging his house. He was putting leather on credit cards.

Like, we couldn't get a loan because people don't just go loan random people money very easily, as we know. And it's not like we had a prior business that we could show we had great credit. And so when we finally got to a breaking point, that's when we got introduced to a factor, which is a very fashion specific bank that loans on your purchase orders. And then from there, we had a little bit of like, someone's going to help us fund this thing. And so over the course of 15 years, you know, we grew as high as 115 million.

We also shrunk down to 30 million during the pandemic. So we've experienced the highs, the lows, you name it, of what it's like to have this thing pop and then grow and then stabilize and then shrink and then go back to growth. What was that like for you personally? Because I imagine your life changed dramatically in a very short period of time. It changed dramatically in that you are dealing with this juggernaut.

But again, because you don't have the funds to keep up, it is very stressful. You don't necessarily have the funds to hire the best in talent. You know, whenever a CFO would make a mistake and I would freak out at my brother, he'd be like, well, we can't afford someone better. You know, would be his response, like, the type of person that would catch these things is paid double. You know, we.

He didn't pay himself. For the first five years, I basically made enough to, like, pay my rent and live barely. And it was just about investing in the business and investing as we could in people. So it was very stressful, and I feel very lucky that I did not have a family at that time. It was just focus on growth.

All I did was work, and I loved it, by the way, but that was my baby. Totally. It's very much how I feel about her first hundred k is. It's like, this is the thing I'm growing and raising and nurturing like a child. Yeah, completely.

Yeah. I mean, I give props to women that can launch a business and have kids. I don't think I could have been one of those people. That's. Yeah, it's bananas.

Tori Dunlap

And I. Yeah. Deeply admire people who can do that. You mentioned that, like, this was pre social media. Talk to me about the difference of launching a business, but specifically launching a business in fashion, what that was like before social media, and how everything's changed dramatically since the popularity of social media.

Rebecca Minkoff

Yeah. So pre social media, it was about getting the right placement in a magazine, getting it on a great celebrity, and selling to your wholesale accounts. Direct to consumer was just beginning. But it's not necessarily a hub. It was more like a static homepage.

And so we really just had to focus on servicing our wholesale and, you know, making sure that we could figure out things that engaged their consumers and then being friends with editors and so that was kind of the focus for the first, I'd say, five years. And as social media began to be something that was important, obviously we dove headfirst often. We were the first to do a lot of things in that space. And now you see brands popping up left and right. I was at a dinner with a designer the other night who popped off on social media and has these crazy collaborations and has probably never talked to an editor and will never sell wholesale.

So it's completely different. Even you. Just saying direct to consumer wasn't really a thing kind of blows my mind to think about because, yeah, if this is what you said, 2004, 2005, yeah, I guess direct to consumer is not a thing. And for those who maybe don't run a business, direct to consumer is just like you selling on your own website, right? It's exactly what it sounds like.

Tori Dunlap

Direct to consumer as opposed to going through a wholesaler, as opposed to going through a middleman company to get there. And now it feels like so many things are direct to consumer, but it's crazy to think that that was not a thing. It was definitely not a thing. And neither, again, was social media blogging. I remember very clearly a very big, important, influential president of a huge wholesaler.

Rebecca Minkoff

You know, like, department store sat us down, was like, you can't talk to these people. You can't engage these lowlifes. Like, we used to have these influencer events at our showroom, and they'd be like, why are you entertaining these people and feeding them? And, like, even at our fashion shows, we had to, the editors would refuse to sit in front of the bloggers and influencers. So we had to stagger where people sat because one could not look across and see the lowlife of the influencer across from them.

It was, it was a very different time. And, like, such a status thing, too. And such a, like, yeah, I will not be seen with people who I deem not as high a status as. Me, not even seen with. I will not look at them.

I don't want them in my line of sight. That's like Marie Antoinette shit. That's like, yeah, wow. I don't have the experience of running a hundred million dollar company. I think most of our listeners do not have the experience of running $100 million company.

Neither do I, because I didn't. Well, that's my next question for you, is, like, talk to me about, like, that transition of, again, like, growing so quickly and then realizing, okay, I need resources, I need capital. You know, I need money, I need the team, I need support. And then eventually, you know, okay, I'm choosing to sell this business, like, as detailed as you can be. Like, walk me through all of that in your head of, like, the kind of decisions you're making at every time and when it feels right.

Yeah. So my brother was my co founder and CEO. So when it came time, like, the mortgage was done, the Amex was fully maxed out. The factor that I mentioned was like, we will not loan you anything more. Right around that time, this was 2012.

The private equity world was circling around brands, and it became very sexy to be wooed by them. So that was when we said, okay, we've been doing this for seven years. We bootstrapped. I think at the time, size wise, we were probably doing 50 to 60 million in sales. And we said, okay, let's sell a quarter of the company, take that cash, fuel the business, open stores, you know, ramp up our e commerce to really sell, expand categories like shoes, clothing, jewelry, eyewear, you know, you name it.

Tori Dunlap

Was it just bags at that point? Was it just bags? Seven years in, it was bags, clothing and shoes. But shoes and bags were very small because we just didn't have the funds to invest in those categories. Got it.

Okay. So we did that. We blew through the money. Then we went back out fundraising a year more, sold 10% more of the company, blew through that money, and then lived again on our own fumes until we had the whole thing sold in 2022. And so I think when you ask, what was that like?

Rebecca Minkoff

It was every emotion on the map. It was frustration, anger, excitement, opportunity. You hear these things, oh, next billion dollar brand. Look at your competition. And then your competition's all ipoing, and you're like, we can do that, too.

Then all of a sudden, the investor sentiment switched, and it was like, are you profitable? Because no one cared for a long time if anybody was profitable. And then we got that question. We're like, no, we're not profitable. What's that?

And so it was like, you know, okay, let's do the deep work to get profitable. And that doesn't happen overnight. So it's been a wild ride. Entrepreneurship, I think, especially on social. I just taken a deep breath because I'm just like, that's so crazy to think about.

Tori Dunlap

I think one of the things I have learned, and I have talked to so many women who run businesses, and I know you feel this way, too. Entrepreneurship gets glamorized on social media, and there's so many incredible parts to it. But then I'm hearing you talk and honestly, I'm just, like, tired hearing you just explain everything that happened and I'm just like, oh, man. For me, there's, like, so much that I've been through in the last, just year of running our company at a way micro scale compared to where, you know, yours was. And so I, like, I just, one of the things I always want to highlight for women who want to be business owners is like, yes, there's so many incredible things about it and there's so much impact you can make and, you know, there's so, there's so much money that's often on the table for you.

But it's also like, I sometimes dream of a nine to five job. Like, there's something about a nine to five now that also just feels very exciting of, like, I get to turn my brain off, I get to close my laptop. And what has the experience been like as a business owner? Cause you're talking like, every emotion. Highs, lows.

Like, the highs are so high and the lows are so low. I think the biggest thing is, where did we all get the idea that it was going to be easy? Because we all go in and it's not like it was advertised that it was easy. And everyone I know talks about how hard it is, but you still are like, oh, this is going to be easy, and then it's not. Or it's going to get easier, or I'll reach a point which I put my legs up and, you know, lean back and I'm good, and I just go, like, we have to disabuse ourselves with that idea.

Rebecca Minkoff

As an entrepreneur, it's always going to be this thing that you are attached to. It's your baby, it's your love, it's your joy, but it's also your pain sometimes. And you have to almost accept those two things going together or else you're just going to be disappointed all the time. And I think that it took me a long time to learn that lesson. And I also think as you get older, it's like, I feel trite saying this, but as you get older, you just begin to have perspective.

Like, okay, if I don't answer the emails on the weekends, what happens? Guess what? Nothing. Nothing happens, you know, and so I stopped answering emails on the weekend. Or like, what happens if I don't write back, you know, 06:00 p.m.

To 10:00 p.m. Nothing happens. So I think that it's like learning to just say, okay, I'm not curing cancer. It's going to be okay if I begin to sort of let myself have some breathing space? Otherwise, you will.

You'll burn yourself out in your journey, too. I'm seeing a lot of maybe not, like, full pivots, but a lot of, like, okay, this isn't working, so we're going to do this, or we're going to do this. For business owners listening out there, what tips do you have of, like, being quick to pivot, being quick to make a decision, even if it's the hard one? We have never shied away from testing. And I will take an example.

I worked with intel a couple of years ago in their attempt to make tech sexy and appeal to more women and get more female engineers. And so I liked that idea because I was like, there should be more female engineers, because then maybe the algorithms won't be so biased. And what we found was, engineers have a very clinical approach to trial and error. There's a failure funnel, and if something doesn't work, it goes in the failure funnel, and no one's crying about it, and no one's berating themselves or, like, going and, like, eating, you know, a tub of ice cream because of it. And so I think for us, it was like, all right, that didn't work.

Next. But we were constantly trying stuff, whether it was trialing in person events, trying new technologies, testing, you know, a b testing on our site. And so if we failed, okay, move on. And sometimes those failures were very public. So I think that the bigger company you are, the less inclined you are to take risk, but I think that you should.

And I think you just have to say to the entrepreneur, try it. Survey it. Always be testing and learning, because you never know what's going to work. One thing we've talked about on the show a lot, especially in the last year or so, is like, I think a lot of women deem a failure not as an incident that happened, but as their identity of, like, it's not just like this failed or even the business failed. It's, I failed.

Tori Dunlap

I am a failure. And what I'm hearing is, it's like, no, you have to let go of that personal connection. Right. You can't take a failure personally and just be like, okay, that didn't work. We're gonna move on and try something else.

Rebecca Minkoff

Yeah, I think you have to disconnect the eye from it and. And just know that you are constantly iterating. You know, innovation happens only when you're constantly testing and trying stuff. And guess what? Here's some more bad news.

What works for you or someone else might not work for the other. And so you have to figure out what works for you. Even if you're the same two white t shirt companies, different approaches are gonna have different results. Well, and, yeah, your market might be different or your price point might be different. Like something is probably different about you're a different entrepreneur than the other person it was making maybe the exact same white t shirt as you.

Exactly. We talked to Madeline Pendleton on the show earlier, and she works in fashion, and she mentioned that it's one of the most volatile industries to be a part of that. Not only is it, like, super cutthroat, but it's deeply affected by even, like, really tiny, minute economic changes. What are some of the biggest lessons you've learned working in this industry that just feels so combustible all the time? Communication and relationships.

When the wonderful. What was the name of that boat that got stuck in the canal? The Suez Canal. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about, but I don't remember the name. Hold on, I'll google it and I'll get back to you.

Tori Dunlap

Keep going. That boat and all the boats had to go around, and our shipping times increased by 30, 60, 90 days. You have got to have great relationships and communication because we were calling all of our stores saying, we know you ordered spring and you wanted it to arrive in January, but it's going to arrive in May, and those goods aren't going to be trend right or well suited for that time period. Now you're making those calls, you're leaning on your relationships, and you're saying, everyone has to hold hands. And I think that what we have done a good job of over the years is with every big hiccup, overly communicating, making sure these people felt like we were going to be in it with them and help take care of them.

Rebecca Minkoff

And I think that saved us many, many times. It was the ever given ship. I wouldn't have known it ever. And it's still ever giving. Truly.

Tori Dunlap

Hey, financial feminists. Hope you're enjoying the show. Welcome to this mini segment, small business tips with Tori, presented by our friends at State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. In this first installment of this micro series, we're focusing on women business owners and how you can support and grow your own woman led business.

March was women's history Month. Yay. And we know from data that women are quickly becoming some of the largest portion of business owners in the United States. Of the 33.2 million small businesses in the United States nearly 13 million of them are women owned. And in the US economy alone, if FEMA labor market participation grew to the level seen in other developed economies, the economy could receive a trillion dollar boost over the next ten years.

But we know there are many systemic barriers to women trying to run their own businesses. A 2019 HSBC Global private banking survey found that 46% of american women entrepreneurs experience gender bias when trying to raise capital, and women of color are founding businesses at a faster rate than women in general, with 42% of newly created women owned businesses started by black women and 31% by latino women. However, black and latino women are more likely to self fund due to a myriad of systemic circumstances, including banking deserts and racism in the banking industry. So how can we help? If you're a business owner, opt into mentorship, whether that's networking and finding somebody to personally mentor you or mentoring someone else.

I have a hype squad group text full of other women entrepreneurs that I message when I need some advice or need some encouragement. I've also joined communities like the femare founders collective that I absolutely love. You can also support small women owned businesses as both patrons and other small business owners. This means creating a network of women around you who you can go to or who you can work or shop with regularly, whether for personal or for your own business supplies. One of the best ways to support small businesses without spending a dime is by promoting them through social media channels.

Of course, I can personally attest to the power of social media. Being a small business owner is tough enough. Not having a supportive community around you to advocate for you and support your small business can make it feel impossible. And making sure your small business is protected through small business insurance is the tip that never gets old. We're grateful to state farm for supporting content like this, especially since state farm agents are small business owners.

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How do you learn to handle the seasonality of, like, fashion? Are there ways that you prep as a business owner? Because I'm thinking, you know, a lot, we get a lot of questions from people listening who are like, yeah, my business is seasonal. Or, you know, there's a lot of, I can do a great, great month in January, but February, March, April are just dead. So how do you handle that, both as a business owner, but also how does the business work to handle?

Okay, yeah, we were featured in this magazine, or, you know, this influencer blew our shit up, but then it's just dry for a period of time. Yep. So we know that as a leather goods company, our biggest 70% of the year is done. September, October, November, December. So we have our financial plans and our spend aligned with outside of, you know, capex.

Rebecca Minkoff

Right. Like everything else is aligned to live and breathe on the first eight months of the year being somewhat smaller. And we really know, like January, not that much. People just got all their gifts, they're returning them. Business is on sale, you know, July, tumbleweeds.

And so we just financially plan for those to be the leaner months. And you'll start to see these cycles in your business go through a year or two, and then you just have to be really smart about financially planning and setting aside, you know, during the farmer. You know, when they're, it's like farming, right? You're doing the land, and then you got to figure out how to live the rest of the winter. And so after 20 years, I hope we figure that out.

But it does take a couple of years in business to begin to see those cycles. That is wild to me. So September, October, November, December, you said. So four months drives the whole rest of the year of the business. 70% of the year.

Yep. Fuck, that's crazy. That's so, like, when, how long did it take you to figure that out? Oh, pretty early. That's weird.

You know, like, who wants to buy? Okay, just put yourself in the customer's position. Like, yes, we offer some non leather, but it's not the bug of our business. Who wants to be, like, sweaty and hot with like, a big leather tote in the summertime? Nobody, you know.

So it's like we just began to understand that for the bulk of our goods, you know, there are time timely leathers and materials that she likes. Right, well, actually, talk to me about that, because you just said, okay, we do other things besides leather. But if leather's the signature, I imagine, especially if you're a newer business owner, you're going, well, okay, but I need to sell during the other months, so I'm going to do something else. I'm going to, you know, try to drive this other thing. Was that successful?

Tori Dunlap

Or is it just like, no, we know what we're good at and we're just going to, like, stay in our lane for the most part. No, we know what we're good at. And we also know that we have a healthy nylon business. We have a healthy straw business. Again, these are things that we have tested and learned.

Rebecca Minkoff

I think, you know, for a minute. We tested an athleisure line of gym bags. Didn't sell. Not gonna continue. But she does like a nylon bag for her computer or her weekend activities.

And so I think we're always offering those right type of products during the time that she's gonna buy them. We just know that it's never gonna be like hundreds of millions of dollars in sales on those types of items. Right. Because it's what you're known for and what you do well is the leather. Yeah, I have both.

Tori Dunlap

A personal question for you, but also something that I think the listeners will relate to. So you sold your company in 2022. You also sold your name. Right. Like, personally, what was that like for you of like, literally somebody else.

I don't know, somebody else own your name. How did that work? I imagine that that was almost like a mourning period of just like, okay, I'm so selling not only the thing that I built that I care about the most, but literally my name is attached to it. So that part of it happened in phases. So in 2012, when we sold our 1st 26% to the private equity firm, that was when my name sold.

Wow. Okay. So it didn't feel bad or that I didn't own it because we still owned a majority and we controlled the company, and they didn't have hardly any controls. So I could stamp my feet around and be like, this has to be this way. And we would get our way.

Rebecca Minkoff

I think it felt really real in 2022 when it was, like, 100%. Well, 97%. Cause I still own a small piece, right? And it's theirs, and I'll never forget, and I'm still here, and I love the company, but I'll never forget when I went downstairs to meet one of the teams that was working on a different project, and my name was all over these things, and I was like, oh, no. Oh, no, no, no.

Like, no, take it off. Just take it off. That name cannot be on that. You know? And that was when I had my moment of like, oh, my gosh, I really don't own it now.

And I can stamp my feet and yell and scream, but guess what? Not when you don't have, you know, not when the whole thing's gone. So I definitely remember leaving that day and taking a very long walk around the city and just trying to be like, all right, new phase. How do I look at the positive of this versus always being scared, right? Again, I am not my name.

So how do I make sure that I can contribute to a better outcome with these partners? And so far, so good. The second question I have related to that is my own personal question, is, I don't think I want to be CEO of her 1st $100,000 forever. Wow. And we're starting.

Tori Dunlap

Uh huh. Yeah. And I've actually never talked about that on the podcast, but I'm starting to. You know, if we're doing 3510 year plans, it's becoming clear to me that, like, I don't think I want to manage the day to day of the business anymore. And correct me if I'm wrong, I think you stepped back from CEO to creative director.

Is that right? No, I was never CEO, always creative director. But pre acquisition, I was right there with my brother. So every business decision, every failure, every hole in the boat, like, I might not be running it, but I'm there like, oh, God. Oh, no.

Rebecca Minkoff

Oh, no. Oh, no. And now, right now, I'm not in any of those meetings. Now I'm just like, I get to be my best self. Creative design.

Tori Dunlap

That was my question, is, are you moving from more strategy to creative? And also, I'm literally just asking this for me. How do you let go? How do you let go of the thing that you built? And also, that is for you, your name.

How do you let go of that. I let go of it because after 17 years, three kids, I said, I need to be able to have head space for something else. And at first, I didn't let go, and then I slowly did, and it felt a little weird. And I felt sometimes like, why didn't they include me in that budget meeting or that p and l meeting? Or, like, why didn't they invite me to that?

Rebecca Minkoff

And then I was like, you know what? I'm more creative. I am more excited, and I'm more fueled today than I was when I was bogged down with all those things that would get me in a bad mood or upset, and I didn't know what to do to then get back into my creative zone. So for me, it's been a blessing. And let me tell you, Tori, like, you know, I'm sure your listeners are not necessarily at childbearing age, but the difference in headspace I have for my one year old versus the difference in headspace I had for my first three, where I was always stressed and I was always like, oh, go to sleep so I can get back to work, versus now I'm just like, let's have a leisurely evening.

Let's take a bath. What else do you want to do? It is night and day, and I love it. So there's hope for you, and I think you just have to find the right partner. And when you do, you know, it's not a, it's not a quick breakup.

It's a slow passing of the baton, and then you're always there to make sure it's happening. But enjoy that ability to be like, I built something so good and so certain that it can be handed off. Yeah. My biggest fear for me, especially as the face of the business, and again, your business is your name. That, like, it won't succeed if I am not the face of it.

Tori Dunlap

And, like, that's the biggest fear I have, is it's like, you know, and I think in some way, incapacity, I'm going to have to stay the face regardless. But, like, yeah, it's like, it's not just the strategic, you know, or the day to day that I'm doing. It's also, like, can this business exist without me? No. Like, can I make myself obsolete?

Rebecca Minkoff

No. You are the face, and God doesn't go away. I'll never forget this. This influencer that I followed had a media company, and then she started featuring her employees because she wanted to pull back. And I was like, I don't want to see that chick in your dress.

I want to see you. You know, and I was like, uh. And then I watched it happen to another one where, like, she started featuring other people in her business and other things. And I was like, I'm not interested at all. Like, I just want the one person that I liked, and I don't want all this, all the friends of, and so I think that we tried that.

Tori Dunlap

And it didn't work. Yeah, we tried it. They want you because you're the magic. But what are the duties that no one is, you know, is visually looking at that you can sort of begin to hand off that I think will make a change and you'll feel better. Right.

It's a personal problem. I don't know if there's anybody out here also running a business with their name or their likeness or their face, but, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's something that we're figuring out. And to your point, like, it is, it's not a cold turkey thing. And this is why we're even starting to talk about it is. It won't happen for a couple more years, most likely, but it's like, it's very, it's got to be a kind of slow transition.

Yeah. You keep mentioning your customer. You keep calling her her. Yes. And I love that.

One of the biggest mistakes I see, like new entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs make is they just don't define their customer or they don't know who their customer is. Tell me why that's so important for a business owner to know exactly who they're trying to talk to. I think that we spent a lot of time talking, getting to know, meeting in real life our customer. And it's made all the difference from a community, a connection point of view. You know, we, our aesthetic is always going to be rock and roll.

Rebecca Minkoff

Little bohemian downtown, right? A little edgy. Take away New York and Los Angeles and, like, some of the big cities in the middle. We are the edge for our customer. And she's like, ooh, I want some edge in my life.

Like, she goes to us. I think that we've learned, like, her tastes, what she likes price points, and what our brand promise is to her. And so I think we paint, obviously, every brand paints the glossy, aspirational image for the customer to know. Okay, I'm going to close my eyes when I think of Rebecca Minkoff. It's edgy rock and roll, studs, zippers, dog clips, whatever it is.

And then we give you an opportunity to have the really edgy stuff or like, the touch, because not everyone wants that in full blown. And I think that the more you can get to know your customer, what she eats, what she wears, her perfume, her music case, you know, what other brands she shops, it's really great. I mean, good or bad, that Cambridge Analytica, the opportunity we had to get to know our customer prior to that scandal was really great. Yeah. I've always said, like, you should know the tv shows they watch.

Tori Dunlap

Like, you should know what they're watching on Netflix. Yeah, I love the perfume. Like, what perfume they're wearing. And again, it's not going to be every single person who ever purchases your materials or you, you know, uses your goods or services, but it's. It's the person you're appealing to or the person you're trying to, you know, reach 100%.

Rebecca Minkoff

And your customer is not always going to be who you fantasize it to be. You know, when I. When I moved to New York and I was trying to, like, break into the scene, you know, I fantasized that my customer was going to be the coolest fashion editor and the coolest influencer. Guess what those women are wearing? They're wearing designer brands that are like Valentino, Louis Vuitton, every high brand.

Yes, they'll wear my bag sometimes, but, you know, they're at a level of being exposed and being immersed into a different world and. Okay, great. Who else is out there? Great. Oh, here's my customer.

She loves me. Let's go. And I think you have to get that ego off and, like, just embrace and love your customer, whoever she is. Totally my favorite little fun fact about you, you launched an OnlyFans account. But for your business, the creative idea behind it, how is it paid off?

Tori Dunlap

Like, this is so intriguing to me. Okay, well, when we talked earlier about testing and learning, yeah. Only fans at that time had announced that they were trying to get away from explicit content and really move into the creator space. And we thought, great, this is a new platform. Let's try it.

Rebecca Minkoff

And we did, but then OnlyFans came back out and said, jk, explicit content is what pays the bills. And if you've been on my OnlyFans lately, you can see that there is no activity, because I personally don't want to align with the values of that platform. So we tried it. It worked. I was good when it was like, okay, we're.

We're gonna try this, and then, you know, their values and mind on the line, so it's done. But again, we learned a lot, so. It was almost like a Patreon kind of play. It was like, truly, like, fans of the brand. Fans of you.

Tori Dunlap

Not. Yeah. Sexually explicit content. Yeah. Right.

Rebecca Minkoff

No, there was nothing sexual on there at all. It was all. It was using the platform to. Yeah. And testing it, which I love.

Tori Dunlap

I think that's great. And they had a. They had a good amount of creators, but, you know, they couldn't pay the bills, so they had to go back to explicit content. And as a mom and whatever, I was like, that's not my jam. So we're off.

Totally. Well, sit down. Yeah. And to your point, like, I remember when threads really popped off and we actually had a team conversation the other day. We do, like, monthly meetings about, like, okay, what's going on with our partnerships, what's going on with our podcast, what's going on with our social.

And it was really funny because we had a whole slide on threads of, like, our threads are still continuing to grow. And I literally had to ask my team. I was like, is anybody still on this? And, like, half of our team was like, yeah, I am. And I was like, oh, okay.

But like, that was that moment that, like, two weeks that, like, threads was popping off where it was like, yeah, let's go see. Let's go test. And I love that idea of, like, yeah, let's figure out what this platform is and if it's going to be a big deal. And most of them aren't. Most of them, you know.

Okay, cool. I'll sign up our username. I'll make sure somebody else doesn't take it. But, like, I'm never going to log back in again. But, like, it also may be something that's really interesting.

So who knows? I think you never know. We did threads. No one cared. And I was like, good, I'm done.

Rebecca Minkoff

You know, we know that our Twitter account, or x, whatever you want to call it, is mainly a customer service or if we ever get back into nfts and crypto, a crypto crowd, you know? And so I think you just have to try stuff I did never went on lemon lemonade or whatever. I. But, yeah. And I signed up for that.

Tori Dunlap

It didn't do anything. No. Yeah. Let's talk about your book. Your book, fearless, goes through 21 rules.

Can we talk about a few that stuck out to us? And I would love for you to tell us the subtitles or talk about them, too, because when I'm just going to read them, they sound different than what I think. Of course, when we read the book, you intend so one of them is don't ask for help. Talk to me about that one. I can't tell you the amount of times you are like, hey, I need your help.

Rebecca Minkoff

Can I just pick your brain? Can we, like, have coffee? I'm like, no, we cannot have coffee and you cannot pick my brain. I need you to tell me one specific thing. I think it's don't ask for help.

Ask for what you need. I want people to be so specific when they ask for something, whether it's the busiest person in the room or Tori, they get in a room with you and they've got 5 seconds of your time. Tori, can you introduce me to block? Tori, can you follow me back? Whatever it is you have to get so specific.

And I think that that helps frame an ask and shows that you know exactly what you want and you have a plan. You're not just this, like, tell me your story and how you got started. No, why would I go to lunch to do that unless I needed my ego stroked? And often when you're asking for help from a very, very busy CEO or entrepreneur, like, they don't have time. And so if we can just handle it for you in a minute or two, that's the best way for you to get what you need in for us to help you.

Tori Dunlap

And you're more likely to get a response because I could not agree more with what you just said. If the number one question we get asked when it comes to personal finance is, how do I start? The amount of times we get that in our DM's every day. And I literally have a website or a page on my website that says, start here. I, like, can't be more clear about where we start.

And also, you asking me this is going to get me riled up. You asking me where do I start? Implies that you've done no upfront work on your part to figure out where to go. Like you are asking me who has not only a busy person, but has produced thousands of hours of content for you and a podcast and a book and all of these things. I've produced this for you and you've said, oh, no, I'm not going to do 5 seconds of upfront work.

I just want it handed to me. And I'm like, I can't do that for you. So I just, I love what you just said. Plus one. All of it.

Rebecca Minkoff

Yes. Now those emails, can I just pick your. Delete, delete, delete, delete. Can I pick your brain? Can I have 30, 30 minutes of your time?

Tori Dunlap

And I'm not going to tell you what for. No, no, definitely not. All right, one of the second, or the second chapter I want to talk about is create two way streets. What is the idea behind that? Tell me more.

Rebecca Minkoff

I think that there is a lot on your way up of asking for favors, and there's definitely a feeling on your way up that you have nothing to give. And I learned from my japanese boss, you always have something to give, and you should always show your gratitude. So I'm always of the mindset of, if anyone helps me out all along my journey, I'm immediately like, is there anything I can do for you? Even if it's like, no, but you bought them a plant. Whatever it is, there's always something you can do, even if you're just starting out and to keep that two way street going, because people remember gratitude, they remember your offer.

If they come back around in ten years and they're like, hey, can you do this for me? You're like, yeah, I can. You know, I had a friend, a company that was huge in the beginning of my career and really helped us that then she lost her way and then came back recently and was like, can you come on the podcast? I was like, absolutely. You know, like, I'm gonna.

You were big for me when I started, and now I can help you. So I think it's just always keeping that flow open of what can you do for others. Yeah, I think it's always asking, yeah, what can I do to support you? Like, I will literally end this interview, and after I will ask you, like, what do you need from me? How can I support you?

Tori Dunlap

And I think that's so incredibly important. And especially if you're early on in your career or you're, you know, a baby business owner, and you're like, I don't have anything to offer. To your point. Yes, you do. Like, I remember being a college student and thinking, like, I'm going to ask for an informational interview from this person and, like, I can't give anything to them.

And it's like, actually, yes, you can. Like, mentorship goes both ways. Partnerships go both ways. Like, you have something to offer this other person, even if you're just out of college or even if you are in your first year of business, like, you have something to offer the people that you're trying to work with, partner with, mentor.

So we just had our annual team retreat. We are a completely remote team. So we fly everybody out to Seattle, we all get together, and we do like, five days of meetings and dinners. And let me tell you, this was the longest I've worn a bra in, literally the entire year, probably since last year's team retreat. And I love wearing third love bras because as someone with bigger boobs, it is very, very difficult to find a bra that fits, that's supportive, that's not like digging into my sides.

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It's very similar to personal finance. If you want to feel healthier and start on your fitness journey, well, you just got to get started. And one of the things I love about Peloton is it's just really, really easy to start working out more because the vibes are immaculate. The instructors are great. Shout out to ally Love, who is also a friend of mine.

And it's just so nice to know that, like, you're vibing but you're also doing something good for yourself at the same time. Peloton helps you start no matter what level you're at, with thousands of classes to get you moving. So whether it's beginner or advanced, maybe there's some feel good live dj rides or some artist theme rides. They've got something for you. Peloton bike instructors help keep you motivated from day one.

They're going to show you the basics, but they're also going to take the guesswork out of your workout. And Peloton entertainment keeps you moving. She can watch your favorite tv shows and live sports as you ride, which is perfect for those days when you just got to get your workout in but you really don't want to. Wherever you're starting, get moving with a peloton bike or bike plus rental@onepellaton.com. Bike rentals term supply my last chapter I want to ask you about is forget about balance again.

Rebecca Minkoff

It's another one of those words that our little evil man behind the keyboard or woman like was like, ooh, let's aim this word at women. They're gonna feel like failures, and it's gonna be awesome. So there is no such thing as balance. Men have never had it either. News flash, right?

We go back to caveman days. They had to go out and get murdered by beasts, right? While we were stirring the fire. So it's never existed for either species or either sex. And what I do believe is life design.

You will have different times in your life where you're focused on building different things, and you have to test your own boundaries. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that, like pre kids, I worked as many hours of the week that was possible. I didn't sleep. I had a kid. I began to test it and pull back and say, what's too much for me?

What's not enough? You know, when are the times where I'm not going to see my kid? Or when are the times that I have to travel overseas? And guess what? He's coming with me.

And that sucks for me, but I'm going to be able to be with him. And so you have to put blinders on. You can't look at social media, and you go, what do I want my life to look and feel like? And how do I begin to build that? Slowly.

And there's no balance. You know, it's like optimization of what you have. It's, some days I'm a great mother. Some days I'm a great worker. Some days I'm a great friend.

I'm not all things all the time. I needed to hear that, first of all. Second, I think, yeah, I I'm realizing again in my own life and my own business, it's like, I think there's seasons, like, there's seasons of pushing yourself in the business really hard. Like, when I launched my book, I've talked about this on the show, but, like, that was a season of I am running, sprinting to the finish line to get this book out, to have it sell well, to hit the New York Times bestseller list. And then it was like, okay, so we did that really hard thing, and I was willing to sprint for it.

Tori Dunlap

I am never willing to do that again, but I did it, and now I know. And I also wasn't going to be satisfied if I didn't sprint to the finish, like, if I didn't go full out. But then it was the realization of, like, okay, so we did that. And for me, I'm never going to do that again. So now where is our focus going to go.

And for me this year, it's like taking care of myself because I sacrificed my physical health to do that. So now it's like, okay, I am going to take better care of myself, nurture my in person community, and yes, continue to show up for the business, but in a different way. I fully agree with you on seasons. And like you, I sprinted and killed myself for the book. And I was like, you know what?

Rebecca Minkoff

The only way I'll ever do this if is I am paid, like, double, triple what my, my advance was, which was a great advance. I'm not complaining. If I have to work that hard like I am, I'm gonna really, like, triple that number. I have never worked so hard in my life for so little money, ever. I know wild when you, when you amortize, like, the hours you spent for the advance you got, you're like, wow, this is, this is wild.

But I do think that if you, if you or I had to do it again, we've learned so much, you know, we would be smarter about it. And I think when you can find that person that works as hard as you, or just a little less, but they're smarter and savvier, you know, it sounds dumb, but as you grow, if you want more freedom, you have to find a great bricklayer, or many bricklayers. Yep. And a wise man said to me once, like, you are paying someone money from your own pocket. If they're not making your life easier, they go, right.

If they haven't taken a load off, they go. There's no, like, but she's trying. She has good intentions, but she means well. That could be your friend. That ain't your employee.

So if you want freedom, you have to have good people working with you, or you'll never get out of the rat race. Yep. If there's one thing I learned in the past year, it's like, if you are causing me more stress than solving problems, that's a massive issue. That's something that, yeah. If you were causing me more grief, then you are making my life easier or making the company better.

Tori Dunlap

That. That's really difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you have to, like, nip it in the bud.

Rebecca Minkoff

It, like, it's like, oh, but we just hired them. No, it's been a month. Well, and your gut knows, too. And we've talked about this on the show before, and actually, that was one of the most important things I heard@the.net. Retreat which you hosted was like, what was it, high or slow fire fast?

Tori Dunlap

No, what was it? It was like. I'm trying to remember who said it, too. I think it's higher. Slow, fire, fast.

Yeah, yeah. It was just like, make a good decision, and then if, you know, they're not right, and this isn't like, this isn't you making a decision that you haven't thought through or, like, you know, the one mistake, somebody's out. It's not that. It's like, you know, in your gut, your intuition tells you, yes, this. This is working, or, no, it's not.

Rebecca Minkoff

Yeah, I think we need to rely on our guts. I just think that we don't do that enough. And then if you trusted your gut and it was wrong, you're like, ah, I trusted my gut and I was wrong. But, like, there is a reason why, you know, 90% of the serotonin you make is in your gut. There's a reason why people say that is.

It is something that you should check in with you, your knowingness, your ability to perceive and begin to trust it. And I think it's like a muscle. The more you do that, you know, the stronger it gets. Yeah. And the more you learn to trust yourself that you are actually capable of making smart decisions and you're capable of doing the things that you want to do.

Tori Dunlap

Yeah, I talked about the net retreat at the beginning, and I just would love to talk about female founders collective. Like, the goal is to get more female entrepreneurs in a room together. We were talking about, like, entrepreneurship's fucking hard, and it's lonely, and it's like, the highest highs and the lowest lows. And one of the things that I have realized now growing this business, is it's like, I need support from other people who understand and who are at a similar level of business. And I just loved being in that room with other entrepreneurs.

Like, what, to you, has been the biggest impact of building this community. And why was it so important for you to build? I think it was important to build because, to me, empowering women with access to education and tools to succeed and grow their businesses is the quickest way I know to make women more wealthy and more successful. And most of us start our business with a passion, with no roadmap outside of that. And so our goal is to surround you with experts that have been there, done that, that can give you those much needed answers to those questions.

Rebecca Minkoff

And so, you know, the best thing that's come out of it is women are making more money. Women are being more successful. When I see someone not renew, and the reason is, I've outgrown the need for this because my business has gotten so big and they might be looking for another tier that we don't offer yet. I'm like, hallelujah. You know, she started year one, year two.

She's in year five, and she needs the next level of opportunity. And so I think that it's the only. No, it's the only way I can think of to make the wage gap smaller and making us all more wealthy. Yeah, well, it truly is such an isolating experience. And I, you know, I have my incredible partner who is not an entrepreneur, and I can go to him and he can be supportive, but, like, doesn't fully get it, or I can go to my best friend who's also not an entrepreneur, who, like, again, supportive but doesn't fully get it.

Tori Dunlap

And it's like, just so helpful just being in a room with other people who understand what it's like, but also, like, the connections that come from it and the relationships that are built, I think, is just so powerful. And, like, men do this shit all the time. They go out golfing, they go in a boardroom together, and they talk about business, and it's just like, this is so needed for women to, like, yeah. Get ourselves to the next level, support our employees in the best way to support, you know, the business in the. In the best way possible.

Rebecca Minkoff

Yeah. I think also we need to share with each other and be vulnerable. You know, men don't mind. Men don't mind sharing, and we need to do that so that we can actually help each other a lot more instead of being like, did you hear what she did this year in revenue? She's a loser, you know, which we can do to each other, and it's terrible.

Tori Dunlap

Yeah. As opposed to being, yeah. Open and vulnerable and also perfect segue into what we do at her first under k. But, like, talking about money, like, talking about, here's how I got this. Here's what we did.

Here's who I talked to. Here's exactly how much we brought in in this certain category. Like, that's so helpful to hear because, yeah, you might see somebody killing it, but you're wondering, like, how. How did that happen? Like, okay, if they're doing this partnership or, you know, they've, they've launched this thing, where did they get the money to do that?

How much did they raise? How much are they making now? Like, that's so, so helpful to know because otherwise it's just this, like, yeah, this veiled thing that we have no idea about for sure. And I think that, you know, one of. One of my favorite quotes, I think it was Sally Kroczyk was on my podcast, and she was like, if women talked about money as much as they talked about sex, how much more money would we all be making right now?

Rebecca Minkoff

Instead of that being the front thing you gossip with your friends about? Right. Right. It's the number one conversation we will avoid talking about. Like, we'll talk about sex, death, politics, religion.

Tori Dunlap

Any other uncomfy topic before we will talk about money. Yeah. You mentioned crypto and nfts. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you really quick. How's that going?

Rebecca Minkoff

How's it going? Let's go back to the test and learn. We were part of something. We tested it, we made some good money, then the whole thing died. And now the things that I didn't sell in time are sitting at half their value.

So, I mean, except for bitcoin, which is up. But I think that we felt that it was important to be able to provide digital garments to our customer, to collect, to wear in games and trade, and there was a market for it. Then the market changed, and I said, good, we're done there. We'll go back if it heats up again. So I never looked at it as a failure because there was complete lack of me to control what happened in that arena.

But we had great success in it when we did well. And again, to your point about testing, like, I love this idea of like, yeah, let's see what happens. Let's see what happens, as opposed to thinking, oh, my God, this might be a failure. So I'm never going to do it. And it's like, yeah, it's always how you define failure, like, as a failure.

Tori Dunlap

It did not succeed. Well, what did you learn? Who did you meet? What happened from it? I don't think that's a failure.

Rebecca Minkoff

Not at all. And we had great earned media from it. We had great press, we had great exposure. We got a new experience. The first time I ever met you was a dinner with our friends over at Sofi, and you were talking about, here's what we're doing.

Tori Dunlap

Like, that was the first time I met you. That's right. So if we had never had an NFT, you and I never would have met. Look at that. NFT is bringing people together.

Who would have thunk it? Rebecca, thank you so much for being here. Thank you both personally, just for your mentorship and for your support. It's going to make me a little weepy, but like, this is, yeah, this is fucking hard. And it's just really validating to know that not only can women fucking go out and kill it, but also that you are passing the baton and bringing us with you.

And that means just the world and also just professionally just how big of an impact you've made for literally millions of women across the world. So thank you. Where can people find you? Find out more about you. Plug away.

Rebecca Minkoff

Okay, here come all the plugs you can buy. My book, fearless the new rules for unlocking creativity, courage and success. Wherever you buy books, you can subscribe to my new sub stack, Rebecca Minkoff dot substack.com. That's more the personal side of life. My Instagram ekiminkoff or ebekaminkoff if you want the brand rebeccaminkoff.com to buy the best bags ever.

Is that it? I think that's it. Oh, and my podcast, I'd be, duh, super women with Rebecca Minkoff, which you're gonna be coming on soon, which I can't wait. And if you are an entrepreneur and you want a community. Femalefoundercollective.com.

Tori Dunlap

Amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you to Rebecca, as always, for joining us. You can access all good things. Rebecca Minkoff at rebecca minkoff.com dot. Please also join the female founder Collective. It is one of the most incredible communities I found for women in entrepreneurship.

I actually spoke at their seven figure summit last year. Their net return treat all about how to grow your social media and grow your instagram. It is such an incredibly powerful, well connected group of women who is actually teaching people how to run a business. It's not just like show up, take pretty photos because I've been to those events, too. It is like, here's how to raise money.

Here's how to find the people you need to talk to. Here's how to hire, here's how to fire. Like, if you want to run a business or are running a business and you're trying to get to the next level, could not recommend female founder collective enough. Thank you as always for being here. Financial feminist to support the show, which is very expensive for us to produce, but free for you to listen.

You can subscribe, you can share it with a friend. You can leave us a five star review. We really appreciate it, and it's the easiest thing you can do to support us and make sure this show continues running. So we appreciate it very much. Thank you as always.

We'll catch you on the flip side. Bye.

Thank you for listening to financial Feminist, a her 1st 100K podcast financial feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamisha Grant Research by Arielle Johnson Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Metcalf Marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda Lafue, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bachmakeva, Taylor Cho, Kaelyn Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Coronan, Daryl Ann Engman, and Janelle Reasoner. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen. Sound a huge thanks to the entire her first hundred k team and community for supporting this show. For more information about financial feminist her 1st 100k our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com dot.

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150. How to Fearlessly Pivot with Rebecca Minkoff

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1. Opening Remarks

2. Journey to Fashion

3. Business Growth and Challenges

4. Innovations and Pivots

5. Conclusion and Reflections

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