How to Land your Dream Job - Chats with my Team ( @KaelynGraceApple )

This episode delves into effective networking strategies and how visibility in your professional field can dramatically improve your career opportunities.

1. Visibility is crucial for career advancement; being seen doing good work can open many doors.
2. Networking should be approached as building long-term relationships, not just as a means to gain immediate benefits.
3. Creating public displays of your work, like YouTube videos or blogs, can significantly enhance your professional credibility.
4. Attending events and engaging in communities relevant to your interests can lead to unexpected opportunities.
5. Proximity to influential figures in your field can be powerful; it increases the likelihood of serendipitous opportunities.

1. Introduction to Networking

Kaelyn discusses how she utilized her online presence and networking to transition into a new role within Ali's team. They emphasize the importance of visibility in career advancement. Kaelyn Apple: "If you can be seen doing good work, you are more likely to get your foot in the door."

2. Real-World Networking Applications

Kaelyn shares specific strategies she employed, like attending events and making her work visible online, which helped her network effectively without seeming pushy. Kaelyn Apple: "I made sure that my work was visible, and if an opportunity arose, then hopefully there would be some name recognition."

3. Discussion on Professional Visibility

Ali and Kaelyn discuss the impact of being publicly visible with your work and how this can lead to greater professional opportunities. Ali Abdaal: "It's kind of lucky that the job for productivity lab community manager came up, which fits squarely in your wheelhouse."

4. Practical Networking Advice

The conversation shifts to practical tips for effective networking, emphasizing authenticity and the value of genuine interactions. Kaelyn Apple: "Ask thoughtful questions and lead by example."

1. Attend Industry Events: Increase your visibility by attending key events where you can network with peers and industry leaders.
2. Engage on Social Media: Use platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter to share your professional achievements and insights.
3. Volunteer for Projects: Show your skills and dedication by volunteering for projects within your interest areas, even if they are outside of your current job scope.
4. Start a Professional Blog or Podcast: Share your industry knowledge or interview other professionals to enhance your credibility and visibility.
5. Follow Up: After meeting new contacts, follow up with a message summarizing your conversation and expressing appreciation for their time.

Meet Kaelyn – YouTuber, former pro athlete, and now our community manager at the Productivity Lab.

In this episode, we chat about the power of networking and how just being out there and doing great work can open up so many doors. Kaelyn shares her journey from the sports world to YouTube and how she networked her way to joining our team. We also explore the perks of teamwork, the quest for work-life balance, and the art of building a cohesive vision for a productivity brand. Enjoy :)

People

Ali Abdaal, Kaelyn Apple

Content Warnings:

None

Ali Abdaal
Oh, by the way, you might like to check out my completely free 20 lessons I learned in my 20 email course. This is five days worth of emails. You can click the link in the description, you enter your email address and then it will. And then I'll send you an email every day for five days. And each email will have four different life lessons that have been taken from my experiences in my life over the last like ten years.

So if you're interested in that, check it out. Five days of emails. You can unsubscribe anytime. It's completely free. Never going to sell your data, all of that stuff, but that's linked down below.

Kaylin Apple
If you can be seen and you can be seen doing good work, then you are more likely to get your foot in the door. If there is an opportunity, you need to be seen working really hard. So you need to be seen. In this episode, I'm interviewing one of my newest, I think my newest team member, Kaylin Apple, who is actually herself a youtuber with over 100,000 subscribers. She's also a former professional athlete.

Ali Abdaal
She is currently doing a PhD, which is nearly finished, and she joined our team as the community manager for our productivity lab. What I felt like I was missing in my experience as an entrepreneur was that I wanted the team. I wanted to feel like I was immersed in something that was bigger than me. And I think this is part of why entrepreneurs go into wanting to start their own projects, because they don't see it being created by somebody else. So they figure, okay, I'll make it myself.

Kaylin Apple
I had seen it in your YouTube videos, but I hadn't ever really gotten to see it up close. And getting to see how your brain works is so fascinating to me. Kaylin, welcome to whatever this podcast ends up being. How are you doing? I'm great.

Glad to be here. So you are one of the newest team members. And before we were recording, you mentioned that you had networked your way to this job. I wonder if you can elaborate. How did you network your way to this job?

Ali Abdaal
And what can other people potentially learn from that? All right, so I knew that I was moving to London probably about six months in advance of when I actually was. And I knew that part of the reason I wanted to move to London was for my research, for my PhD. But I was also moving for the opportunity to grow my YouTube channel, meet people, and be a little closer to the action. And one thing that I wanted to do was connect with other people that were doing things that I thought were cool and that I was generally interested in.

Kaylin Apple
And so it wasn't thinking about networking in the framework of, oh, if I reach out to some person and build a connection, it'll land me a job. The way I thought about networking was, let me just find ways to be in the general ecosphere of people that are doing things that I think are cool. And one way that I sought to do that was actually joining PTYA. Oh, YouTuber Academy. I did, yes.

And part of it was to grow my YouTube channel and to network and meet other people. But if I'm honest, one of the main reasons I wanted to join Ptua was because then, if I've learned anything in my life, it's that if you can be seen and you can be seen doing good work, then you are more likely to get your foot in the door. If there is an opportunity, and this is a philosophy that helped me as a professional athlete, landed me my first professional training job as an equestrian. It's what has landed me opportunities in academia and now is landing me opportunities professionally. And it has meant that I joined Ptua.

And then when I got to London, I attended an event, and I just made it so that way. My plan was to just make sure that my name was visible, make sure that my work was visible, and if an opportunity arose, then hopefully there would be some name recognition. And that was another strategy when I was applying for this job was, okay, I'm gonna make a video. And there was a video application required, but I was like, okay, so how can I do this in a way that reminds them that they've likely seen a YouTube video of mine before. And so I just made sure that the branding style of the video and, like, the titles and all the flow of the video was very much like my other content.

Ali Abdaal
Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah. Cause when you applied for the job, like, I didn't know that you'd apply for the job, because now I don't know who applies until the final two or three people make it through. And when I heard that you were in one of the final two, I was like, kaylin. Yeah.

She came to one of our meetups. She had that viral video about something about PhD something or other. And, yeah, she seemed cool. And that was immediately, like, 500 points above anyone else, because it's like, oh, we know that you're a normal person and that you do cool things and that you were broadly chill at the meetup. Yeah, we've had people come to some of our meetups where they're like, they're not chill about it.

They're almost overly fanboy or fangirly and quite pushy with no, here's my cv. I really would love to work. There's a level of hustle that's palatable and then there's a level of hustle that goes a little bit unpalatable. I think that's the first version of networking that people think of is I'm going to have a direct communication with somebody, have an informational interview, or go into a conversation with this person and immediately try to get them to give me a job. But networking is about relationships and long term connection and reliability.

Kaylin Apple
So if somebody thinks of you when an opportunity is brought up, they might be like, oh, I remember somebody that they attended this event and then they followed up and they did this thing and we've kind of in the periphery been aware of what they've been doing and they do good work. And when they put themselves up for an opportunity, then that recognition works in your favor. And it's also not thinking a plus B equals C. It's thinking, okay, if I put myself in a place where I am recognizable, I am recognized for having done good work. I've done that over a longer period of time, but then the right opportunity has come up.

Yeah, that's when that comes to fruition. So I wasn't just joining PTOA to immediately land a job. It was, I like what Ali and his team are doing. It's the type of environment that I could see myself working in. And, you know, I want to grow in this YouTube space and this productivity space, and so I'm just gonna learn from them, but I'm going to also put myself in the room.

So that way there's some recognition. Yeah, yeah. One thing that Tony Robbins is particularly big on is the phrase proximity is power. Yeah. And his whole schtick is, you know, partly it's a bit of a self serving schtick because his, you know, he wants you to pay for his events and all that kind of stuff.

Ali Abdaal
But it is kind of true. If you're in the room with the sorts of people who are doing interesting things or things that you find interesting, then you are just way more likely to, you know, something interesting will happen and you may not be able to predict ahead of time what that interesting thing is. And I think this is why a lot of people don't do this, because they don't appreciate that it's a probabilistic serendipitous. You're just sort of generally doing things that increase your surface area for something lucky to happen. It's kind of lucky that the job for productivity lab community manager came up, which fits squarely in your wheelhouse.

We've had jobs coming up for executive assistant in the past when that felt less squarely in your wheelhouse. But it's like you set yourself up such that when the appropriate opportunity comes up, your ability to capitalize on that opportunity is way higher than someone else who hasn't been doing the groundwork. Precisely. And I think an important part of what you said that I really liked is you are seen to be doing good work. Yeah.

Why specifically? You seem to be doing good work rather than just seen. Because you want the recognition to be credibility. It's not just, oh, I recognize this person because they show up to a lot of things. It's that it's the question that you ask.

Kaylin Apple
For example, I remember going up to you at the PTOA meetup and I asked you specifically about delegation and how to find an editor. And the question was important to me. But it was also, I want to make sure that I have a communication that I am asking for value. I'm asking for information that I really want to learn from this person. And even if you don't remember that particular interaction, that's not necessarily important.

It's that every time that person kind of sees you in action, they see you doing good work, they see you asking good questions, they see you putting out good content, they see you as someone who is a team player generally. And this can apply in any industry. So this doesn't just mean getting a job. It can also mean being seen as somebody that somebody would like to have you speak at an event. For example, v Katie vu.

I met her when I was at Oxford. I ran into her on the street and I didn't want to just say, oh, I'm such a fan of you and I really love your videos. I wanted to make sure she remembered that interaction. So I specifically said, what video had made a difference for me and was one of the reasons that I had sought to apply to Oxford. And then when we interacted again several months later, she had actually followed me on Instagram and she had said, oh, I remember that interaction.

And she had seen my content and she had seen me talking about PhD admissions. And then a year later, shes asking me to speak at empowered by V at her conference. And so its not thinking about, oh, that one interaction is going to lead to a result. Its thinking, okay, I just want to make sure that I have interactions with people that are doing work that I really admire and that I really enjoy and want to be a part of in some way. But I don't necessarily know what that kind of interaction is going to be yet, but I'm just going to open the door for possibility, and I'm just going to put myself in a position where I'm recognized as somebody that is kind, is credible, and that is thoughtful, hopefully.

Ali Abdaal
Yeah. I think a really big part of this, a real unfair advantage, is, for example, the fact that you make YouTube videos, because it's like a public display of your work. It is. And if I think back to, you know, we hired Bob fairly early on, she was like, employee number four or five, I can't remember at this point, but Bob had a podcast, and it was a tiny podcast, really. It had, like 70 subscribers.

But she came up to. She came to one of my Cambridge meetups. She took the train, like, an hour and a half just to meet up with me in Cambridge. At that meetup, she was normal and friendly and was, at the time, in a corporate job that she didn't particularly enjoy. And so she had started this podcast on the side as a bit of a side hustle, and asked, hey, Ali, would you be down to be on my podcast?

And I was like, oh, great. Yeah, sure. Why not? You know? Sure.

You know, this seems kind of nice. It's like, why not? And then we had a really good conversation on the podcast where she asked good questions. And so then when she joined our youtuber academy, and we were thinking, okay, of the people who have joined who could be a mentor, it's like, oh, this person who I know, who I've done a podcast with. Yeah, her podcast has, like, five subscribers.

But that wasn't. That's not what was meaningful. What was meaningful was the fact that she was doing the podcast as a side hustle while having a job. Similarly, when Tintin got hired, he had a YouTube channel. When Saf got hired, he had a YouTube channel.

A surprisingly large amount of the people, comparatively, who we've ended up hiring, have had some sort of public display of their work. Gareth's case, I don't think he had a YouTube channel at the time, but he had a blog where he had a business where he was sharing free notes for law school admissions and stuff like that. So there's just so much value in being public about sharing your work, which is the whole Austin Cleo on show your work shtick as well. Yeah, but this also applies in a variety of other social situations. I applied this when I was in grad school, I made sure that I was always sitting in the public lounge, where all the professors would come and get their coffee.

Kaylin Apple
And so, instead of going to the library, where it wasn't visible to my mentors and the people that I wanted to impress and the people that I wanted to get advice from, I sat where they were, and so they would come in to get their coffee once or twice a day, and they'd still see me sitting there, and I'd be there basically every day. And I remember a professor that I had had asked me in office hours once. He's like, why do you study in the lounge? I was like, well, there's more opportunities to have conversations with the people in the department if I'm in the lounge. And it's funny because those opportunities to connect, it's thinking about how it is that you can kind of create what is considered a third space.

So, whether that's connecting online by having a digital presence or that's making sure that you're just kind of visible within the room when events are happening, it's also putting yourself in that situation and asking thoughtful questions, and somebody kind of develops a Persona of you that is somebody who works hard but is also. Is seen working, so they have this immediate association. Yeah. Nice. So, what's your first?

Ali Abdaal
I guess two months on the job in. How long have you been with us now? It's only been like, five weeks. Oh, only five weeks? Okay.

One to two months. How's the first five weeks been? Oh, it's been wonderful. It's funny watching the videos and seeing the team and then being in it, and it's kind of what I expected, to be honest. Like, everybody is so kind and so ready to help one another.

Kaylin Apple
And that's one thing that I was really missing, being a PhD student and a youtuber, I just felt really isolated in the work that I was doing and being on a team where I get to communicate with Gareth and Bev and Allison and I have the coaches, it just feels so much more collaborative and the investment. You can feel that everybody on the team really wants to build a product that is not only a great product, but that also has longevity and has scalability. And that was something that I felt like I was missing, even running my own businesses, is that I had a team, and it did feel collaborative to an extent, but I kind of wanted to be immersed in it. I didn't want to just kind of be at the high level of delegating, and I think it's a really good position for me. So I'm really liking it.

Ali Abdaal
Nice. What's been the worst part of working here? I think just finding the balance with starting a new product and figuring out what it's going to be and how it is that it's going to change and trying to get the systems put into place. I have learned in my time, having run my own businesses and done my PhD, is that once I start a project, it's really hard for me to take a step back. And so trying to set more clear boundaries.

Kaylin Apple
Everybody on this team works really hard and BaV, for example, is constantly online and wanting to impress the team and do a really good job, but also make sure that I'm doing the things that I can in order to ensure that I am as productive a team member as possible. So knowing that that requires me to take a step back every once in a while. And do you get the sense that if you're not online, then, I don't know, Alison or Gareth will feel like, oh, Kaylin's not putting her weight or what's going on in your head about this? Because I guess in some jobs there is this idea that if I'm seen to be leaving on time, then people will look down on me or something like that. So I think there is that natural anxiety that is part of it.

But on the other hand, I also know that I don't want the coaches that are working with me to see that, for example, I am online twenty four seven and expect that they are online. And so trying to remind myself to lead by example while also combating the inner voice that says, oh, well, you need to be seen working really hard so you need to be seen. You need to be seen online or you need to be seen adding updates to slack and that kind of thing. But one thing that I have started to do and have communicated, communicated clearly with the team is I will let you know when I am offline and when I am back online. So that way I am clearly communicating when I am setting a boundary that I need to take a step back or I even put up a message saying im going into 2 hours of deep work, I wont be answering messages but ill check back in at this time.

I find that if youre able to communicate that and people are aware of what it is that youre doing, then that anxiety of oh, what's cailin up to? Is she actually working? I feel like there's less anxiety of that from the side of my supervisor, but also from my own understanding, but at the same time, I'm trying to do that to model that behavior for other people on the team and hope that they also know that they can take a step back and that, for example, they can go and do deep work. And this is something ive learned from running my own businesses and having teams that training to lead by example is the best mode of action. And so if I want to, for example, have my coaches, the people on my team that are working with me, I want them to be excited and ready to go and to be able to take on a task, but also to say where their boundaries are, because I dont want them to take on something that they actually dont have capacity for.

If I can model that, then the hope is that they will also do the same. And I've seen little bits of that so far, which is good. Oh, by the way, quick thing, in case you are interested in starting and or growing and or monetizing a YouTube channel, then you might like to check out my part time YouTuber academy. It is a course that has dozens and dozens of hours of content in it, along with templates and worksheets and resources that basically open source absolutely everything that me and my team have learned about growing my YouTube channel and also this podcast YouTube channel over the last seven plus years. So you can check that out at Academy Dot aliybdal.com.

Ali Abdaal
thatll be linked down below in the video description and the show notes as well. Feel free to check out the part time YouTuber academy. So you went from entrepreneur to employee, which sort of seems a bit backwards because a lot of people who are currently employees dream about being an entrepreneur. Yeah. Why did you decide that you didnt want to be a full time entrepreneur and instead wanted a job?

Kaylin Apple
I, on the surface, want stability, so that's one part of it. Having lived on the full time income of being a youtuber and content creator and creating my own courses and businesses and things, there's this constant kind of anxiety of, oh, well, what if it ever goes away? And the thing is that that's kind of artificial as well, because a job could just disappear. You could get let go. But what I felt like I was missing in my experience as an entrepreneur was that I wanted the team.

I wanted to feel like I was immersed in something that was bigger than me. And I think this is part of why entrepreneurs go into wanting to start their own projects, because they don't see it being created by somebody else. So they figure, okay, I'll make it myself. And what I found was that I did make it myself and I felt like I did a pretty good job doing that. But there was also limitations to the brands that I felt like I could build, and I wanted to build something that had more impact.

And the way that I thought about doing that was either I pivot my brand significantly and I create a three year strategy in order to move towards a space where I can create a wider community that's not just academics or there's somebody that's doing this already, and I can immerse myself in that team and make that a really killer product. And I like collaboration. I think I have the ability to be an innovator and to be somebody who's a leader, but I actually think I'm more of a systems person. I think the granular is actually what I enjoy. I had a job when I was, I think I was 21.

I worked in medical device regulatory research, which is really random. We did FDA submissions for medical devices. And I had been a professional athlete up until this point, so I had no idea what an office job was going to be like. And the one task that I enjoyed the most was data entry, which nobody relates to. Everybody hates data entry, but I really liked the focused granular I put on my music and I have to just really get into the weeds of making sure that the system's working.

And that's what I found really lit my brain up. So I find that I like ideas and I like being able to bring that into fruition, and that's the entrepreneurial side of my brain. But there's also this part of my brain that really enjoys being on a team, really likes working in the, in the weeds. And I couldnt really do that being the leader of my own company. And so I decided that it would be better served for all of my skills to be useful to a bigger team, rather than it being just solely useful to me.

Ali Abdaal
Nice. A bit of a self aggrandizing question or self centered question, but what surprised you about, I guess, getting to know me in real life versus seeing some of the videos and being part of the youtuber academy, if anything? Ooh. So I think there's always a bit of a distance. It's a parasocial relationship, right.

Kaylin Apple
We have this idea of a person that we see online versus what is the person in real life. It's not that different. I feel like part of that is because I watched your videos back when you were in Cambridge and I watched your vlogs, and so I felt like I knew a bit more of who you are in terms of being a little quirky. A little chaotic at times, but also when push comes to shove, you really know how to implement. And I was saying this to someone when we were at wework a couple days before the launch of the productivity lab and watching your mind work in a visual way on a whiteboard.

I had seen it in your YouTube videos, but I hadn't ever really gotten to see it up close. And getting to see how your brain works is so fascinating to me. And so I wouldn't say it's all that different, but you just feel more human. And getting to see how your team works with all of the quirks that you have and the quirks that other people have and seeing how that all works to support one another is really interesting. And also, in a way, it's funny getting to see, especially with launching a new product and we've got templates and other things that had to get done at the last minute.

And I see a little bit of how I operate and the way that you operate at times. What do you mean? Well, for example, the last minute crunch, I love it. And so, for example, the night before productivity lab launched, I had a dissertation deadline the same weekend that we were launching. And so I was up with the team until eleven, and then I was up until two working on the dissertation.

Then we were up in the morning finishing to make sure productivity lab was done, and everybody was hustling and making sure that everything was getting done, but everybody's got their head down on their computer just cranking it out, and I just enjoy it. I just like it. I like being in that. I like being in that environment. And so that's where when somebody puts on their resume, for example, like I work best in high intensity environments and whatnot, I think it needs to be in short bursts.

Like, I think if that's the environment 24/7 that it's a bit of a problem. But the times that I've always enjoyed my work the most is when it's kind of down to the wire and it seems like you have a similar tendency. Yeah, it's not fun if it's not done at the last minute.

Ali Abdaal
What would you say are the biggest weaknesses that we as a business have? I think the part that I'm seeing firsthand is that it kind of operates like a startup and it's continuously adapting. And I know that the goal at the moment is to think about long term scale. And seeing you and Angus trying to put those building blocks in place is really fascinating. I'm curious how well look at it two, three years from now and what products are available and what it is that we're building.

Kaylin Apple
I think that we have a general idea, but wanting a more cohesive understanding, I suppose, is one thing that I'm trying to think of how it is that I would describe this in a more clear way. I think this goes back to the naming thing of trying to decide Ali Abdul Limited productivity lab PTOA and wanting a very cohesive vision of what the brand is and will build. And so I think that the weaknesses that I see right now are things that are actively being worked on and are actively being discussed and trying to figure out what tools we're gonna be implementing. But I would say having a more cohesive vision for the five years from now is something that I think is a bit missing. And what does that result in, like, that lack of a cohesive vision?

I think if we have. Well, I'll put it in your own terms. I think if we have that North Star that we're thinking of in the, the grand scheme of what we think the overall brand is going to be, that's not just reliant on you and your YouTube channel and thinking about how it is to build something that could be sold or building something that has its own identity, it gives us a clearer picture as to what the roadmap towards that point might be. But I think we're on the way to building out what that vision is. And I think part of that is thinking about how it is that we're building out productivity lab and what opportunities there are with that, because there's so many.

Because right now it's really focused on the granular individual and them implementing a system of productivity. But, for example, the way this team operates, and don't get me wrong, I'm only a couple weeks in, but it is organized in such a way that really puts company culture forward and really puts communication forward in a way that I think is very effective. And ive worked at bigger companies that also have done a very good job of implementing these types of systems. And from where I stand, this business started with the foundation of trying to make sure that that company culture comes first, and I think that that'll pay dividends. So if, let's say you.

Ali Abdaal
So now that you've seen the inside of what this looks like, if you were to decide, you know, what I'm going to become the next productivity girl or whatever, and build a sort of Ali Abdul equivalent type business, how would you go about doing it? Like, what would, what are the sorts of things you'd be thinking about. So one thing I think is really missing in the so there's two answers to this question, because I think there's a productivity brand question and then there's a productivity business question, and they overlap, but I don't think they're necessarily the same thing. So in terms of productivity brand, as people like Cal Newport and others have started to identify, there is a need within the productivity space to consider neurodiversity, and it's a bit challenging to do so if you're not coming from a position of somebody who is neurodiverse. If you identify as neurotypical, then it is difficult to talk on topics of neurodiversity.

Kaylin Apple
And there are many productivity creators and other types of productivity content that I think goes so far in the other direction of hustle culture. This is not accessible to somebody that is neurodiverse. So thinking about how it is that we create productivity content that is more accessible generally is something that I think is a bit of a conversation in the space. So you'd be the accessible productivity gal, I would assume. I would attempt to be.

I don't think I'm necessarily the poster child for having done that, because I identify as neurotypical. But thinking about how it is that we make the information more accessible to those that are neurodiverse, and taking that into consideration in the way that we present information and productivity. Okay. And then the productivity business side. And productivity business side.

At the moment, there's a lot that is focused on the individual and individual systems of productivity. And the kind of offshot of that is community. And I think that that's what productivity lab is beginning to implement. A lot of people rely on tools. Tools isn't something that we've really considered.

And I think that's a bit of a challenging consideration because tools looks like applications, physical products, things that require a lot of investment upfront, that don't necessarily come to fruition in terms of direct user impact. And I think that we just need to be creative about what perhaps this fourth option looks like. So you've got the individual, so individual buys book, implements tools, or implements strategies, then we have community. So you have accountability, and you have the ability to do so to build these systems alongside other people. And that's what I think productivity lab is really well suited to do.

And then you have the tools. And productivity lab incorporates some of those tools by saying, okay, these are the tools that have worked for us, and here's how you implement them into the system. And you can do that in community. So we have those three things coupled. But I'm curious if there's a creative addition to that, and I don't exactly know what that is yet, but I think that there's something a bit missing in the implementation of these strategies that have long term impact on an individual.

Because its one thing, for example, to try these strategies for, lets say 14 days is the average of somebody whos trying a new habit versus somebody that implements these strategies for three years.

I think right now were really reliant on the individual making that decision and making that push. But how is it that we can create that experience in such a way that's not as much of a cognitive lift to get over the hurdle of implementing these strategies? And I don't have an answer for that. Yeah, but I think that there's, if we can get creative, we can put our heads together, I think that there's an opportunity. Cool.

Ali Abdaal
Well, I think calendar is going to be here shortly, so thank you for hopping on this spontaneous podcast. Of course. Any, any potting advice for anyone who's listened this far and is maybe inspired by what they've heard you say, get. Your foot on the door. Be seen, be seen doing good work and be seen doing work that you really care about.

Kaylin Apple
Ask thoughtful questions and lead by example. Great. Thank you very much. Of course. All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive.

Ali Abdaal
Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are going to be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full hd or 4k on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode.

That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode. So thanks for watching. Do hit the subscribe button if you aren't already, and I'll see you next time. Bye.