Wildfires are getting more extreme. And so is the need for more firefighters

This episode discusses the escalating severity and frequency of wildfires globally, and the challenges in recruiting and retaining enough firefighters to combat them.

1. Wildfires have doubled worldwide over the last two decades, driven by climate change.
2. The US Forest Service struggles with staffing despite recent successful recruitment.
3. Economic issues, such as low wages, complicate firefighter retention.
4. Formerly incarcerated individuals face significant barriers to becoming professional firefighters.
5. Innovative programs are needed to integrate more diverse candidates into firefighting roles.

1: Introduction

Summers discusses the global increase in extreme wildfires and introduces the episode's focus. Juana Summers: "Extreme wildfires doubled worldwide over the last two decades."

2: Challenges in Firefighting

Discussion on the chronic staffing challenges faced by the US Forest Service and the risks of the profession. Jeff Marcella: "It's not a fire season anymore. It's a fire year."

3: Economic Impacts on Firefighters

Summers and guests discuss the economic difficulties faced by firefighters, comparing their wages to other jobs. Juana Summers: "That is roughly the same as what a fast food worker makes on average."

4: Barriers for Formerly Incarcerated Firefighters

Royal Ramey shares his journey and the challenges faced by formerly incarcerated individuals in becoming firefighters. Royal Ramey: "It took him eleven months to get a job as a firefighter, even though there were plenty of jobs out there."

1. Support local and national firefighter recruitment initiatives.
2. Advocate for better pay and conditions for firefighters.
3. Educate on the role of climate change in increasing wildfire risks.
4. Consider careers in firefighting as a form of public service.
5. Support organizations aiding formerly incarcerated individuals in finding firefighting jobs.

Extreme wildfires doubled worldwide over the last two decades, according to a new study of NASA satellite data.

You'd think, if the wildfire crisis is getting worse, there'd be more and more firefighters in place to meet that demand. But at agencies like the U.S. Forest Service, adequate staffing has been a huge challenge.

But as organizations like the Forest Service raise alarm about firefighter shortages, there's also a whole group of people who are trained to fight fires and are struggling to get jobs in the field: formerly incarcerated people.

We hear from Royal Ramey, a formerly incarcerated firefighter who started an organization to help others build firefighting careers once they're released from prison.

People

Juana Summers, Jeff Marcella, Royal Ramey

Companies

US Forest Service

Guest Name(s):

Royal Ramey

Content Warnings:

None

Juana Summers
Extreme wildfires doubled worldwide over the last two decades, according to a new study of NASA satellite data. They're more frequent and more intense than they were 20 years ago, and that is in large part because of rising temperatures. 2023 had the most intense wildfires ever recorded. It also had the hottest temperatures on record. These are the kind of stats that make the term wildfire season feel, well, a little passe.

Jeff Marcella
It's not a fire season anymore. It's a fire year. Jeff Marcella is the associate deputy chief of the US Forest Service. That's the agency responsible for preventing and responding to wildland fires on nearly 200 million acres of us land. Just like we saw in Texas earlier in the spring or we've seen in Denver in December and January, wildfires can pop up in and cause significant impact in almost any part of our country.

Given the right conditions, you'd think if. The wildfire crisis is getting worse, there'd be more and more firefighters in place to meet that demand. But at the us forest service, adequate staffing has been a huge challenge. 45% of its permanent employees left over the last three years, according to the agency's own data. Marcelay says there are two big reasons.

Why it's very dangerous and difficult work. Let's start with that. There's growing body of evidence around things like exposure to smoke and the potential long term impact of being around carcinogens and those sorts of things that impact somebody's choice to be a part of this line of work. And then there's the issue of wages. Firefighters at the forest Service risk their lives for a base pay of $15 an hour.

Juana Summers
That is roughly the same as what a fast food worker makes on average. We've even seen things like the cost of gasoline prices going up. You know, many of these firefighters are driving 30 to 50 miles to get to their remote fire stations if they haven't been able to secure housing in a very rural community. And that kind of thing can have a real impact on the overall sustainability of the position. Their willingness to continue to do the very difficult, challenging work for not very much pay.

Despite these factors, the US Forest Service says it just hit its recruiting goals for the summer season, hiring over 11,000 wildland firefighters nationwide. Even still, the agency says the number of firefighters it now has isn't nearly enough to address America's wildfires. It doesn't fully staff every module across the country. We're just not funded to be able to do that within the current budget environment. Here's a little irony.

As agencies like the US Forest Service raise alarm about firefighter shortages. There's also a whole group of people who are trained to fight fires, who were struggling to get jobs in the field. You have certifications that you need and then the application process, understanding how to present yourself and even talk about that background question, right? Royal Ramey learned how to fight fires while he was incarcerated in California. Once he got out of prison, it took him eleven months to get a job as a firefighter, even though there were plenty of jobs out there.

Now he's helping other formerly incarcerated people who face similar barriers to become career firefighters. Consider the wildfire crisis is getting worse. We speak to someone who has a way to bring more people to the fight from NPR. I'm Juana Summers. This message comes from NPR sponsor the Capital one Venture X card.

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Juana Summers
Truth, independence fairness transparency respect. Excellence. This is NPR.

It's consider this from NPR. California has long relied on its prison population to fight wildfires. Its one of at least 14 states that sets up fire camps for incarcerated people to train to fight fires. Its an alternative sentencing option, an opportunity to serve the public as wildfires become increasingly urgent. And to some who attend fire camp, its a pathway to a life calling.

But building a career as a firefighter after leaving prison is not easy. Just ask Royal Ramey. He's the co founder and CEO of the Forestry and Fire recruitment program that's a nonprofit based in California that helps formerly incarcerated firefighters find employment. But years before Raimi started his nonprofit, he was incarcerated, attended fire camp, and fell in love with being a firefighter. I told him to take me back over a decade ago to that moment.

Royal Ramey
I was incarcerated in fire camp for about 20 months. It was funny because the experience definitely wasn't easy. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into. All I know is that I wanted to get closer to home and be in a dormitory setting where you can get good food and I can be able to see my family every weekend. I didn't really know what Wildland firefighting was once I got there.

As time went on, I actually embraced it and I fell in love with it. But it really helped grow me as a person I am today. And it's definitely a dangerous job, right? But that kind of thing kind of thrilled me. Being young, active male, growing up and chasing the adrenaline rush when it comes to being that hero, actually going out and, like, slaying the dragon, as we call it.

Juana Summers
I understand that you were released from prison in 2014 and when you were, you began pursuing a professional career in firefighting. What was that process like? And how long did it take for you to find a job? How long do you got? Cause we could talk about this all.

Oh, man. Nah. So, honestly, it took about eleven months to figure it out. How I felt was like, either I'm going to be a wildland firefighter or I'm going to, you know, couch surf or whatever at my mom's house. Like, it was either that or nothing else.

Royal Ramey
So I was really determined on figuring it out. I got, unfortunately, some good people in my life that I came across that really believed in me and seen the hunger and knew that I really wanted to pursue a career in fire. And they helped guided me. It was definitely a challenge. It was a lot of it was really the lack of knowledge, like understanding, like, where do I go?

You have certifications that you need, and in the application process, understanding how to present yourself and even talk about that background question. Right? Like, that's definitely a thing as well. You co founded the Forestry and fire recruitment program in order to help other formerly incarcerated firefighters build careers. You've talked so much about the challenge of navigating that landscape, of finding a job.

Juana Summers
I wonder, how does your program help people tackle these barriers? We help navigate multiple deans, so we give you the certifications you need in order for you to be able to gain an entry level position with the Forest Service, Cal Fire, or any other wildland agency. And then we also help you with the job application process. And then we also help with tech literacy because I notice a lot of folks when they come out of prison, it's kind of hard to navigate website. We also have a social services department where we help with folks getting the ids and getting the Social Security cards.

Royal Ramey
We focus on the expungement process. So Gavin Newsom passed a law, I think, about four years ago now. And what it pretty much does is help people that come out of California conservation camps being able to get their record expunged, which is amazing because it provides an opportunity where folks can apply to not only just fire careers, but they can have a brand new life. I just want to pull back and talk big picture for a second. You first started pursuing a firefighting career about ten years ago, and I'm just curious, as you look at the field, what has changed?

Juana Summers
Do you think it's any easier today for formerly incarcerated firefighters in the state of California to find jobs in the field than it was when you were getting started? Honestly, it is. I think that law helped elevate the cry out, but I think also, too, some of the firefighters understand that folks that come out of camp have great skills. They understand what it feels like to sleep in dirt, you know, understand the grind of that occupation. Right.

Royal Ramey
And I think it's just really the stigma getting around that because of the labor shortage that we have here in California has really put us in a position where we need all hands on deck. Right. And, you know, we have in a program where we vet folks out. We try to pick people that's serious about the career and wanting to, you know, change their life, and they understand that firefighting is not a nine to five. No, it's a lifestyle.

Like, you want. You a public servant 24/7 are there. Things about this career that you think might be something that's enticing to folks who have served prison sentences? I guess I'm curious if there's. Is it the adrenaline like you were talking about?

Juana Summers
Is it the public service? Is it something else? It is definitely those things. Cause it all depends on the person, right? But for me, like, when you're told that you're not this and you're not that, and you a menace to society, like, you, the black sheep of the family, you always in trouble.

Royal Ramey
It's all these negative connotations that's constantly, like, bombarding you throughout your life because of the choices that you make or whatever the case may be. Right? So when it gets flipped and say, wow, like, you're a hero, like, you actually contributing to folks in the community, and when you walk in a store and you have your uniform on is when. Those are one of the best feelings I ever had in my life. When people come to you and say, thank you for your service, or you know what I will pay for, like, let me pay for you.

You know, your drink or whatever your food, and you don't got to say nothing. You just walk in a room and people respect you and appreciate you, and that's something that you never had in your life is really. It's powerful, it's inspiring.

It makes you feel like you, the man or even a woman. You feel so validated as a person that is wanted, that is desired and that's loved and appreciated, you know, and it's pretty amazing just making that transition from being someone who society looked down upon, you know, and now having a honorable career. I want to turn the conversation, if I can, to climate. Because we know that as global temperatures are rising, wildfires are burning more acres of land and they're lasting longer, which of course means there's a greater demand for people to fight fires. And as agencies like the US Forest Service have reported, there's a chronic shortage of people who are willing to do it.

Juana Summers
So I wonder, how do you square the high demand for firefighters with the fact that there are a whole lot of people who want to make a career out of this and can't figure out how to do so? That's a great question.

Royal Ramey
We know that we need bodies. We need folks that can be able to get in a position to help this crisis. We got to look at all options. You know, we need to expose folks to these jobs and these occupations. So, you know, can I be frank?

Juana Summers
Okay. And it's just real. And I hate to go with this race thing, but, like, it's a lot. A lot of white caucasian males in the space, right? It's a lot of separation in this job.

Royal Ramey
And I think now if we really want to tackle this issue, we need to educate people on all levels of what this climate crisis is. And then we need to embrace and then integrate, and we need to bring everybody to the table so they can be able to help with the solution. And I think one of the things is, like, giving people the awareness of that and starting programs utilizing nonprofit organizations, you know, community based organizations that have these conservation camps. Right. Really like, put money into them so they can get more exposure to this because I think that once folks kind of like, get exposed to it, then this might spark an interest in them.

I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, when I went to prison, I didn't know nothing was right. I remember seeing like, smokey the bear on a commercial or two and I kind of like, just flew over my head because I didn't even know what it is. Like when I looked at these red engines that was flying by my, you know, when I was growing up, I never seen nobody that looked like me. So that wasn't even a thought, right.

I didn't ever think that, like, that could be me one day. That's Royal Ramey, the co founder and CEO of the forestry and fire recruitment program. Royal, thank you so much. No, I appreciate you, Mandev. Thank you for having me.

Juana Summers
This episode was produced by Katherine Fink. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. And one more thing before we go. You can now enjoy the consider this newsletter. We still help you break down a major story of the day, but you'll also get to know our producers and hosts and some moments of joy from the all things considered team.

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