What will life look like for jurors after the Trump trial?

This episode examines the potential repercussions for jurors following the high-profile trial of former President Donald Trump.

1. Jurors face severe backlash and threats, necessitating anonymity.
2. The episode explores the delicate balance of juror safety against public transparency.
3. Social psychologist Julie Blackmon discusses the psychological toll on jurors.
4. The legal system's measures to protect jurors are critically examined.
5. The episode underscores the importance of juror anonymity in highly charged trials.

1: Introduction

Ari Shapiro introduces the episode's theme around the potential post-trial life for jurors. Ari Shapiro: "What will their lives look like after this blockbuster trial?"

2: Juror Challenges

Discussion on the specific challenges faced by the jurors, including potential threats and the importance of their anonymity. Ari Shapiro: "Consider the New Yorkers who convicted Donald Trump are still anonymous, at least for now."

3: Psychological Impact

Julie Blackmon speaks on the psychological aspects jurors face when returning to normal life. Julie Blackmon: "The transition back has got to be substantial, especially to the extent that they kept themselves separate from information."

4: Legal and Social Implications

Exploration of the broader legal and social implications of the trial on the jurors and public perception. Julie Blackmon: "I mean, I think that the attorneys understand their obligation to keep the jurors' names private."

1. Understand the importance of juror anonymity in sensitive trials.
2. Recognize the social and psychological support systems necessary for jurors post-trial.
3. Be informed about the judicial process and the protections it offers to jurors.
4. Advocate for better protection measures for jurors in high-profile cases.
5. Support legal reforms that enhance juror safety without compromising the transparency of the judicial process.

The 12 New Yorkers who served on the jury for former president Donald Trump's trial, and voted to convict him om 34 counts of falsified business records, have not had their identities disclosed publicly to protect their privacy.

But now the trial is over, and they are likely returning back to normal life. So, will they reveal themselves to the public? And what risks do they encounter in doing so?

In this episode we take a look at what other public figures who have gone up against Trump have faced from his supporters, and what those jurors could stand to gain from sharing their stories.

People

Donald Trump, Ari Shapiro, Julie Blackmon

Guest Name(s):

Julie Blackmon

Content Warnings:

None

Ari Shapiro
When former President Donald Trump spoke publicly about his felony conviction last week, he painted himself as a beleaguered public servant. It's my honor to be doing this. It really is. It's a very unpleasant thing, to be honest, but it's a great, great honor. It's funny, with that quote, he's describing how a lot of Americans feel about jury duty.

And in the case of the twelve New Yorkers who voted to convict Trump on 34 counts of falsified business records, their lives might get especially unpleasant now that the trial is over. Trump has not directly attacked the jury, but his supporters across social media have, threatening everything from doxxing to death. After the trial, Trump did imply that the jury pool in left leaning Manhattan was biased against him. They wouldn't give us a venue change. We were at 5% or 6% in this district, in this area.

But in part due to safety concerns, the identities of the jurors were not disclosed publicly. And there's a long list of Americans who, in the course of doing their jobs, have upset Trump and been threatened or harassed by his supporters. Like Maine secretary of State Shena Bellos, a Democrat. She removed Trump from the republican presidential primary ballot, which she said state law required her to do. Politics and my personal views played no role.

Shena Bellos
I swore an oath to uphold the constitution, and that is what I did. Eventually, that decision was reversed by the Supreme Court. Before that happened, she told NPR her house was swatted, targeted by a hoax 911 call. I stand by doing my job. But the response, the threats of violence and threatening communications have been unacceptable.

Ari Shapiro
Consider the New Yorkers who convicted Donald Trump are still anonymous, at least for now. What will their lives look like after this blockbuster trial?

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Ari Shapiro
It's consider this from NPR. Heres a you were engaged in a very stressful and difficult task. Some parting words there from Judge Juan Mershon, thanking the jury in trumps hush money trial. Now theyve delivered their historic guilty verdict and can return to their regular lives. So as a classic song once asked, is that all there is?

Now that its all over, will the jurors reveal their identities, get exposed by someone else, or just fade back into the fabric of civilian life? And if they speak, what might they say? Social psychologist Julie Blackmun has often explored these questions in her work on high profile criminal cases. Good to have you here, Julie. Thank you.

Julie Blackmon
I'm glad to be here. These jurors were not sequestered during the six week trial, but their transition back to normal life is undoubtedly going to take time. What can you tell us about what these twelve people are likely going through right now? The transition back has got to be substantial, right? Especially to the extent that they kept themselves separate from information.

They're instructed by the court at the beginning of the trial and throughout the trial. They're regularly instructed to stay off the Internet to avoid any information that's relevant to the trial at hand. And so one of the things you would expect they would be doing at this point, assuming that they'd followed that instruction, is checking to see what was happening during the course of the trial, to try to reestablish themselves, in a sense, in the world of news about this case. If one or more of these twelve people were to approach you and say, hmm, I'm torn, should I disclose my participation in this trial or not? What would you advise them?

That's a hard question. I mean, in some respects, I'm very eager to hear from the jurors in particular, because Trump has derided the process. He's talked about it as rigged. And the ultimate proof that it was not is hearing from jurors who say, I was there, I was in the room, and I'm willing to kind of pierce the black box of juror deliberations to sort of describe our process and to say that we were fair, we were mindful of the evidence, we asked questions that demonstrated that our process in the jury room was consistent with all that. And what Judge Merchand said to them at the end was he said, no one can make you do anything that you don't want to do.

The choice is yours. And I would actually expect that during this time, just after trial, that one of the things that's happening for these jurors is a kind of weighing of whether or not it makes sense for them to come forward. People associated with the criminal and civil trials of Donald Trump, from court officials to witnesses, have been doxxed pretty often. What are the chances that somebody is gonna be either exposed against their will or choose to step forward and then face an onslaught of harassment online or in real life? Yeah, I think people will not be exposed against their will.

I mean, I think that the attorneys understand their obligation to keep the jurors names private. They did have access. They had their names. No one else did, but the trial teams did. If jurors choose to come forward, I think that one of the things they're going to have to reckon with is the likelihood that they will be doxxed or that there'll be other harassing events that occur.

And it's already the case that people who have been participants in trials have been heavily doxed. I actually have an article coming out in a journal called the Champion, where my co author, Don Hughes, talks about having testified at the trial between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. She testified as an expert witness for Amber Heard and was crazily doxxed by Johnny Depp followers to the point where she really had to reach out to the FBI for some protection while she was a witness at the trial. So we know that trial participants are vulnerable, and of course, that's frightening for democracy and for the protection of the justice system. If you had a chance to speak to one of these jurors, what's the question that you most would like answered?

Oh, what a good question. I mean, I think I would most want to hear about how deliberations began. What was the idea that first rose to the surface, where people attached themselves to that idea, revealed some measure of agreement with that idea, and deliberations began. And of course, when attorneys are giving summations, you want to know when you've given a summation, do your ideas carry over into the jury room? Do they dominate deliberations?

And if so, how? Serving on a jury is always a form of public service, whether it's a day or a month, high profile or low profile. But how would you describe the sacrifice that people make, the service that people give to be part of a jury like this? Second to military service, there's nothing more we ask of our fellow citizens than jury service. And to be willing to serve in this trial at this time, with knowledge of things like doxing and to be grateful that we have the kind of system where people will do that.

And Judge Mershon actually did an unusual thing at the beginning of jury selection, which is he said to the assembled group, if there's anyone here who doesn't want to serve, raise your hand for any reason at all. And that cleared about half the room. And that's an unusual way to begin jury selection. Usually the process is more individual and each person is talked to separately. Here they were addressed as a group, half of them left, and the remainder they were the people who were prepared to take this on, who were prepared to sort of act on behalf of our country, of the state and show up in court every day on time, were prepared to take the risks that they surely knew, attended this process and deliver a verdict.

And that's brave and noble and so important to our democracy. Julie Blackmon is a social psychologist who has worked as a trial strategy consultant on many high profile criminal cases. Thank you for talking with us today. My pleasure. This episode was produced by Katherine Fink, Connor Donovan and Erica Ryan, with audio engineering by Tiffany Varicastro.

Ari Shapiro
It was edited by Patrick Jeronwattanan and Jeanette woods. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. And in case you havent heard, you can now enjoy consider this in newsletter form, just like on the podcast. Well help you break down a major story of the day. But youll also get to know our producers and hosts and well share some moments of joy from the All Things CONSidered team.

You can sign up@npr.org consider this newsletter its consider this from NPR. Im Ari Shapiro, a former president found. Guilty while running for reelection. For a story this big one podcast is not enough here at NPR. Weve got you covered from every angle.

Rachel Martin
You can get the news as it happens and legal analysis on the podcast Trumps trials. And for all the latest on what it means for the 2024 election, head on over to the NPR Politics podcast find Trumps trials and the NPR Politics podcast wherever you get your podcasts, I'm Rachel Martin. After hosting Morning Edition for years, I know that the news can wear you down. So we made a new podcast called Wildcard, where a special deck of cards and a whole bunch of fascinating guests help us sort out what makes life meaningful. It's part game show, part existential deep dive, and it is seriously fun.

Join me on wild card wherever you get your podcasts, only from NPR. On this week's episode of Wild Card, musician and producer Jack Antonoff says growing older can help soften our insecurities. I love when you get to that point with some of the things that bother you about yourself, where you become almost like bored and angry about it. I'm Rachel Martin. Listen to NPR's new podcast Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation.

Jack Antonoff" ] }
Listen to NPR's new podcast Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation.

Rachel Martin
Listen to NPR's new podcast Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation.