The state of Hamas on 3 fronts: troops, governance and narrative

This episode explores how Hamas is coping with Israeli military operations focusing on their military capabilities, governance of Gaza, and the narrative they manage internationally.

1. Hamas's military capabilities have been significantly weakened, yet they maintain a considerable number of active combatants.
2. Despite Israel's intensive military efforts, Hamas continues to govern and administer civilian life in Gaza.
3. Hamas is leveraging the conflict to gain international sympathy and recognition, portraying itself as a symbol of Palestinian resistance.
4. Israeli and international strategies toward Hamas and Gaza are marked by complexity and contradictions, reflecting varying objectives and pressures.
5. The episode suggests a prolonged conflict without a clear resolution in sight, highlighting the difficulties of completely eliminating Hamas without extensive occupation.

1: Military Front

This segment covers the ongoing military interactions between Israel and Hamas, focusing on the impacts and strategic setbacks for both sides. Daniel Estrin: "Hamas has regrouped in areas Israelis cleared but didn't hold."

2: Governance Front

Discusses how Hamas manages to continue governing Gaza amidst the conflict, maintaining civil order and economic control. Ismail Thawabte: "Hamas still has a civil servant workforce, about 25,000 employees."

3: Narrative Front

Explores how Hamas shapes its image internationally and its impact on Palestinian and global perceptions of the conflict. Ghazi Hamad: "The war began by Hamas led Spain, Norway, and Ireland to symbolically recognize a Palestinian state."

• Stay informed on international conflicts to understand their complexities.
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• Educate others about the nuances of international relations and conflict resolution.

Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the war in Gaza can't end until Israel has destroyed Hamas.

NPR's reporting from Israel and Gaza suggests that goal is still a long way off.

People

Benjamin Netanyahu, Joe Biden, Matthew Miller, CQ Brown, Eyal KhulaTa, Yoav Gallant, Ghazi Hamad, Michael Milstein, Ahmad Yousuf

Companies

None

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Benjamin Netanyahu
Benjamin Netanyahu has been clear about what victory in the war in Gaza looks like to him. Almost immediately after the attacks of October 7, the israeli prime minister vowed to crush and destroy Hamas. Were going to resign them to the dustbin of history. Thats my goal, thats my responsibility, and thats what Im leading the country to do. As the death toll from Israels operation has grown, Netanyahu has repeatedly pointed to that the destruction of Hamas to justify continuing the war.

Here he is in an interview with CNBC last month, arguing that an operation in Rafa was essential to israeli security. Those who tell us, stop the war now, leave Hamas in place, leave those four battalions in Rafa are basically saying, enable Hamas to regroup, recapture Gaza, and threaten you again. Here in the US, President Biden has generally supported Netanyahus goal. So Bidens public announcement last week was a bit of a shock. I want to give an update on my efforts to end the crisis in Gaza.

He said Israel offered a ceasefire proposal that could lead to a permanent end to the war, the implication being the war would end before Hamas is completely eliminated. To be clear, Israel had not publicly talked about that proposal, let alone outlined its terms in any detail. We can't lose this moment. Indefinite war in pursuit of an unidentified notion of total victory will not bring, Israel will not bring down. Bogged down will only bog down Israel and Gaza, draining the economic, military, and human resources and furthering Israel's isolation in the world.

This week, State Department spokesman Matthew Miller underscored that this was an israeli proposal. Israel has made clear they are committed to this proposal. They made clear to us they were committed to this proposal before they sent it. They have made clear to us since they sent it that they are committed to the proposal. Publicly, Israels position is murky.

Netanyahus governing coalition and his political survival depend on ultra nationalist politicians who will not accept ending the war before Hamas is completely eliminated.

And in a statement released this week, Netanyahu insisted that the destruction of Hamas is part of Israels ceasefire proposal. Remember, Hamas itself would eventually have to agree to those terms.

Consider this. Netanyahu says the war can't end until Israel has destroyed Hamas. Our reporting from Israel and Gaza suggests that goal is still a long way off.

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Wherever you get your podcasts, it's consider this from NPR. Hamas has been under attack for nearly eight months. That's eight months of israeli airstrikes, ground operations, and a dramatic clamp down on supplies headed into the Gaza Strip. So how is Hamas faring? Does Israel's goal of eradicating Hamas look attainable?

NPRs Daniel estrin dug into this question from Tel Aviv. We looked at how Hamas is doing on three battlefields. First, the actual armed battle. Hamas released this video with a menacing soundtrack. You see two israeli soldiers crumple to the ground.

Hamas says it shot them in a part of North Gaza that soldiers invaded at the beginning of the war but then left. Hamas regrouped there, and israeli troops are back again. US Joint Chiefs of Staff General CQ Brown in a briefing, the Israelis did not actually, once they cleared, it, didn't hold. And so that allows your adversary then to repopulate in areas if you're not there. And so that does make it more challenging for them as far as being able to meet their objective of being able to militarily destroy and defeat Hamas.

Analysts say Israel has dealt a major blow to Hamas infrastructure. Hamas hardly fires rockets into Israel anymore. Israels destroyed many Hamas tunnels, though estimates vary on how many are left. What Hamas does still have are boots on the ground. An israeli military official tells NPR about half of Hamas combatants remains active.

Other israeli analysts say the number is even higher. Former israeli national security advisor Eyal KhulaTa this is not an army that could be crippled. Once the command chain is broken, terrorist organizations don't surrender. They resurrect. And we should expect that to continue.

As long as Hamas feels the time is on inside, this is what we will see. We also looked at the governing battlefield. Is Hamas still able to govern Gaza and control civilian affairs with the mass displacement of residents, the humanitarian crisis and israeli troops on the ground. This is a video in al Nusrat camp. NPR producer in Gaza, Anas Baba documented a long line at an atm and a guard wearing a baseball cap and black face mask.

He's a member of a committee that prevents chaos and theft during the war. These committees are believed to be quietly affiliated with Hamas because Hamas would challenge any alternative palestinian group trying to take its place, ruling the population.

Hamas government media spokesman Ismail Thawabte tells NPR that Hamas still has a civil servant workforce, about 25,000 employees, including new hires to replace those who have been killed in the war. Hamas has managed twice during the war to disburse partial salaries to its civil servants. Its economy ministry is imposing controls on prices of goods and preventing price gouging since food and goods are so scarce. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant he said as long as Hamas retains control over civilian life in Gaza, it may rebuild and strengthen. Then there's the narrative.

Battlefield what image can Hamas project eight months into the war? It takes credit for international diplomatic victories. Hamas official Ghazi Hamad tells NPR it was the war Hamas began October 7 that has led Spain, Norway and Ireland to symbolically recognize a palestinian state.

Hamad says this is a message to the western backed Palestinian Authority that has tried to achieve independence through peace talks. He says negotiations with Israel are getting us nowhere. Only sacrifices and resistance can strengthen the palestinian position inside Gaza. Palestinians perceive Israels war to be against them, not against Hamas. Sami Mahdi is affiliated with Hamas rival Fatah.

He says Israel is not interested in eliminating Hamas. It's interested in destroying Gaza, interested in destroying you as a civilian. Israel and the US accuse Hamas of manipulating the war to its benefit, embedding among civilian areas and benefiting from the international pressure on Israel when civilians are killed in airstrikes. Israeli analyst Michael Milstein says Israels control of Gazas border with Egypt can cut off a lifeline to Hamas. But he says Israel cannot defeat Hamas without a prolonged occupation of Gaza.

I think that today we must be frank enough to admit that we have no willingness and we have not even a capacity to promote the total occupation of Gaza. So we have no other choice but to promote the deal right now to cut a deal with Hamas for the release of israeli captives in exchange for Israel releasing palestinian convicts and detainees from jail and withdrawing from Gaza. He says the defeat of Hamas can wait. Maybe after a year, two years, we can promote more serious strategy in order to implement the goal of erasing the governmental and the military capabilities of Hamas in Gaza. Former Hamas advisor Ahmad Yousuf offers a sobering assessment of Hamas.

He says Hamas military wing miscalculated the consequences of its surprise ambush October 7. The scale of the attack, he says, gave Israel a pretext for, quote, the annihilation of the palestinian people. NPR has interviewed Gaza residents who are angry at Hamas for launching the war without a plan for protecting them. Yousef, the former Hamas advisor, says this may be Hamass last military confrontation and that Hamas would not regain the strength it once had. He thinks Hamas will instead seek to be a player in palestinian politics, transformed but not defeated.

NPR's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv with reporting by Anas Baba, Abu Bakr Bashir and Ittay Stern. This episode was produced by Conor Donovan and Lena Mohammed, with audio engineering by Tiffany Varicastro. It was edited by James Heider and Sammy Yenigun, who is also our executive producer. And if you haven't heard, consider this is now a newsletter. Like on the podcast, we'll help you break down a major story of the day.

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