How these newly included MLB stats recognize the legacies of Black players

This episode explores the integration of Negro Leagues statistics into the official MLB records, recognizing the contributions of Black baseball players.

1. MLB has officially integrated Negro Leagues statistics into its record books, acknowledging the prowess of players like Josh Gibson.
2. Historian Larry Lester has spent 50 years compiling these statistics, facing immense challenges due to incomplete data and lack of digital resources.
3. The integration of these statistics corrects a historical injustice and formally recognizes the skills and achievements of Black players during segregation.
4. The recognition has profound personal and communal impacts, bringing validation and pride to the players' families and the wider Black community.
5. This move by MLB also prompts a broader reevaluation of sports histories, emphasizing the importance of inclusivity and accuracy in historical records.

1: Introduction

A brief overview of MLB's decision to include Negro Leagues statistics in the official records. Ari Shapiro: "It's not often that baseball is our lead story, but today's news was more than a century in the making."

2: Historical Context

Discussion on the historical segregation in MLB and the efforts to recognize Negro Leagues' contributions. Larry Lester: "I wanted to know if all the stories were true...Statistics are a shorthand for stories."

3: The Impact of Recognition

Exploration of the emotional and symbolic significance of recognizing Negro Leagues statistics. Larry Lester: "It's a relief I can exhale, spent many hours in the library going through microfilm."

4: Personal Stories

Personal anecdotes from the descendants of Negro Leagues players, emphasizing the personal significance of this recognition. Shawn Gibson: "These guys played the game of baseball just like the white players did, and did it just as well."

5: Conclusion

Reflections on the broader implications of this recognition for baseball history and racial justice. Ari Shapiro: "You can now subscribe to the consider this newsletter like the podcast, we'll help you break down a major story of the day."

1. Educate yourself about the history of segregation in sports and its lasting impacts.
2. Support initiatives and institutions that work to recognize and honor contributions of marginalized groups.
3. Advocate for inclusivity and historical accuracy in recording sports statistics and other historical records.
4. Engage in community discussions or forums to raise awareness about the importance of recognizing all athletes' contributions.
5. Encourage educational systems to include diverse histories in their curriculums to enrich understanding of past injustices.

When Jackie Robinson signed with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947, it heralded an end to racial segregation in professional baseball.

And even though Major League Baseball teams were integrated, official recordkeepers refused to acknowledge stats from the Negro Leagues – where Black players were relegated to for decades.

Author and historian Larry Lester is one of the people who has fought to change that for years.

He's spent over 50 years compiling statistics from the Negro Leagues. Now, that effort is getting recognition from the MLB, and Lester spoke to Ari Shapiro on the battle for inclusion.

Statistics from the Negro Leagues have now been incorporated into the MLB's records – and it's reshaping the history of baseball.

For generations, Black baseball players' contributions to the sport have been ignored. Now, their legacies are being recognized.

People

Larry Lester, Jackie Robinson, Josh Gibson, Shawn Gibson

Companies

Major League Baseball, Negro Leagues Baseball Museum

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Larry Lester

Content Warnings:

None

Robinson
Robinson gets the first hit. Up four. It's a homer into the left field stand. Before Jackie Robinson became a civil rights hero, before he became widely regarded as a baseball hero, he broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball in 1947. Here comes the pitch, and there goes a line drive to left field swatters after it.

He leaps it over his head against the wall. Robinson's decade long MLB career with the Brooklyn Dodgers has become the stuff of legend. And here comes Robinson trying to steal home. He's safe, says the umpire. He's out, says Yogi Berra.

And brother is Yogi hoppen. Before Robinson wore the number 42 for the Dodgers, he wore number five for the Kansas City Monarchs, a team in the negro leagues, because black players were banned from the MLB. When Robinson signed with the Dodgers, it heralded an end to racial segregation in professional baseball. But even though MLB teams were integrated, official record keepers refused to acknowledge stats from the negro leagues. For decades, many have been fighting to change that.

Larry Lester
Interviewed I don't know how many 80, 90 ball players, some several times, and they always felt like they were the equal of their major league counterparts. And these statistics proved that to be true. That's author and historian Larry Lester on All Things Considered in 2020. Lester is a co founder of the Negro League's baseball museum, and he spent over 50 years compiling statistics from the negro leagues. It's been difficult because a lot of that data is incomplete or lost.

Before there was an Internet, I would make daily trips to the library and read microfilmed newspapers, particularly the black newspapers across the country, and make copies of the articles, editorials and the box scores and just compile them. Input the data into a computer database that I created. When we last talked with Lester a few years ago, the MLB had just announced a decision to recognize negro league athletes as major leaguers. And now stats from the negro leagues have officially been incorporated into the MLB's records, and it's reshaping the history of baseball. Josh Gibson now holds the all time batting record, surpassing Ty Cobb.

Jackie Robinson
Consider for generations, black baseball players contributions to the sport have been ignored. Now their legacies are being recognized.

From NPR I'm Ari Shapiro. This message comes from NPR's sponsor, Stearns and Foster. To Stearns and Foster, your comfort is their everything. So they've made a mattress that's irresistible inside and out. Every Stearns and foster mattress is handcrafted.

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Jackie Robinson
It's consider this from NPR. It's not often that baseball is our lead story, but today's news was more than a century in the making. According to official statistics, Major League Baseball now has a new all time batting leader. Josh Gibson played in the negro leagues before baseball was integrated, and for the first time, statistics from those players have been added to the official MLB record books. That means, as of today, Josh Gibson has dethroned the legend Ty Cobb.

People have been fighting for decades to include black players in these records. Here's Josh Gibson's great grandson, Shawn Gibson, speaking to MLB.com. back in 2020, these guys played the game of baseball just like the white players did, and did it just as well as the white players. Larry Lester is a historian who spent about 50 years searching through old newspaper files to tabulate these records and arguing just how important they are to baseball history. Mister Lester, welcome back to all things considered.

Larry Lester
Well, thank you for having me, Ari. How good was Josh Gibson? Without a doubt, he was one of the greatest hitters, along with Mulesutto's, Turkish Stearns and Oscar Charleston. The statistics validate his greatness. I mean, his home runs per at bat ratio is similar to Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds and Babe Ruth.

So that tells me and others that he was a legitimate home run hitter and slugger, hit for a high average and seldom struck out. So he was the ideal model for the perfect slugger for any team. You've spent your whole life documenting this history, going into the archives of public libraries, microfilms of old local newspapers. What is it like for you to see this day where officially the rankings are there and they show the results of the work you've been doing for so many decades? Well, this is brings a lot of joy to my heart.

It's a relief I can excel, spent many hours in the library going through microfilm before there were online newspaper databases. I did it the hard way, making copies of every box score that I could find. As an it professional, I created a database. And even today, we have to manually input every box score. There's no app, no software that can scan a box score that will populate a spreadsheet.

So every entry, every batter at bat, run, hit, double, triple, home run, walks, stolen bases, errors have to be inputted manually. So it takes me roughly half an hour to input one game, and I've got over 16,000 games in my database. Why is that work so important to you? Because I wanted to know the answer. I wanted to know if all the stories were true.

Statistics are a shorthand for stories, so we work backwards here. I hear that coupopa bill is great. I hear that statue page and Josh Gibson are great, but cannot quantify it. And this is what motivated me to spend most of my life compiling these statistics from more than 450 black newspapers. You know, I was often told that African Americans were apathetic about their history, and that information was not recorded, but that simply was not true.

Starting in the 1920s, black newspapers had box scores, even had play by plays, editorials, biographies about black ball players. It was all there in the black newspapers. It just had to be mined and processed. Have you heard from any Ty Cobb fans who are upset today? Is anyone complaining that this is an apples to oranges comparison since segregation kept these players from ever facing each other?

Well, no, I haven't had any critics, but there's no reason to criticize what is being done here. Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, like many others, did not play against a black player. Let's remember that Babe Ruth never hit a home run off a major league black pItcher. And ditto for Ty Cobb. He never played against a black major league player.

Now, the same argument can be said that Josh Gibson never hit a home run off a white major league player. So we are comparing apples to apples or sun kiss to orange juice or whatever.

It all works. The fact is, they played in two separate universes. One black, one white. But they played between the white foul lines. And let's keep in mind that the negro league teams played in major league ballparks.

They ordered their bats from the LouisvillE Slugger manufacturer. They use a Wilson 150 cc baseball. They ordered their gloves and uniforms from the same manufacturer, Spalding or reach. They had the same equipment. They played under the same rules in the same ballparks.

The only difference was the color of their skin. To return to Josh Gibson, his life was full of tragedy. His wife died giving birth to twins, and he died when he was only 35 years old, less than three months before Jackie Robinson broke the MLB color barrier. What do you think this moment means for his legacy? I just qualify as some of the struggles that he had to go through, him and other black ball players who never received the recognition that they deserve.

It saddens me that him and many others did not get to enjoy this glory of recognition. You know, we talked about, you know, Josh Gibson and his legacy and Satchel Page and others, but so many, many, many other negro league players, their relative anonymity is a cruel joke for every sports fan in America. And hopefully this statistical project by Major League Baseball will wake up to consciousness and recognize their greatness. And, you know, I welcome the, the pushback from the Babe Ruth families or the Tycop families or whoever it may be, but we have to remember that the negro leagues were a product of systemic racism by major league Baseball. Well, Larry Lester, congratulations on reaching this day, and thank you for talking with us about it.

You're welcome, Ari. He's an author and historian and co founder of the Negro League's baseball museum. This episode was produced by Kai McNamee and Vincent Akavino, with audio engineering by Ted Mebane. It was edited by Russell Lewis and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.

Jackie Robinson
And one more thing before we go. You can now subscribe to the consider this newsletter like the podcast, well help you break down a major story of the day. Youll also get to know our producers and hosts and well share moments of joy from the AlL THInGS considered team. You can sign up@npr.org Slash consider this newsletter.

It's consider this from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro. On this week's episode of Wild Card, poet laureate Ada Limone tells us how to give yourself a little grace. The nice thing about being in my mid to late forties, yeah, I forgive myself all the time. Join me, Rachel Martin, for NPR's new podcast Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation.

Rachel Martin
I'm Rachel Martin. You probably know how interview podcasts with famous people usually go. There's a host, a guest and a light q and A. But on Wild Card, we have ripped up the typical script. It's a new podcast from NPR where I invite actors, artists and comedians to play a game using a special deck of cards to talk about some of life's biggest questions.

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Jackie Robinson
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