Ding Dong v. Ring Ding

This episode of "Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend" delves into a humorous debate between Ding Dongs and Ring Dings, alongside an engaging interview with a guest named Margaret.

1. The humorous confusion over snack names like Ding Dongs and Ring Dings serves as a central theme.
2. Margaret's life as a piano teacher and her innovative approach to music education is highlighted.
3. The concept of intuitive music, where personal soundtracks are created for individuals, is introduced.
4. Margaret’s transition to living with her parents to support them in their old age is discussed.
5. The importance of incorporating music and creativity in early childhood education is emphasized.

1. Introduction and Snack Cake Debate

A light-hearted debate about Ding Dongs and Ring Dings kicks off the episode. Conan and his team joke about the names and which snack is superior.

• Conan O'Brien: "Is it a Ding Dong or a Ring Ding?"
• Sona Movsesian: "I think in our area, we had Ring Dings."

2. Guest Introduction - Margaret

Margaret, a piano teacher, is introduced, discussing her recent life changes and her musical career.

• Margaret: "I sold my town home... and kind of sold the nest."

3. Musical Composition and Teaching

Margaret explains her unique approach to teaching music to children and her method of intuitive composing.

• Margaret: "I compose personal soundtracks for people based on my intuition."

4. Implementing Music in Nature

The conversation shifts to how Margaret integrates music with nature in her teaching practices.

• Margaret: "We use whatever is around to make music, like sticks on trees or graded fence xylophones."

5. Concluding Thoughts

The episode wraps up with reflections on the playful and educational discussions, reinforcing the importance of creativity and flexibility in both life and music.

• Conan O'Brien: "It's fascinating because what you're doing is taking anything around you that's found and then showing kids this can be music."

1. Explore creativity in everyday objects—use items around you to create music or art.
2. Consider the benefits of intuitive learning and teaching methods in your educational approaches.
3. Think about how you can support aging family members while still pursuing your passions.
4. Engage children in learning through play, especially in natural settings, to enhance their understanding and creativity.
5. Reflect on the items and traditions in your own life that could use a humorous reevaluation.

Conan talks to Margaret from Calgary about intuitive composition, music in nature for early childhood, and Conan’s very own personalized musical motif.

People

Conan O’Brien, Sona Movsesian, Margaret

Companies

Hostess, Drake's Cakes

Guest Name(s):

Margaret

Content Warnings:

None

Conan O'Brien
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Sona Movsesian
Conan O'Brien needs a fan. Want to talk to Conan, visit teamco.com callconan. Okay, let's get started. Hi, Margaret. Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan.

Margaret
Well, hello there, Matt Conan. Sona. Is that Sona? Yeah, that's Sona. Oh, my gosh.

Conan O'Brien
It's a Sona lookalike we hired for the occasion. Sona hasn't been seen in months. Yeah, well, I had my face in front of her face. Yeah, we called. We called up our mitzvah entertainment place and said, we need a Sona look alike.

They said, we've got seven. Okay, your name is Margaret. Can she hear us? Can you hear us, Margaret? Margaret, can you hear us?

Margaret
Yeah, I can now. Yeah. Did you black out there last night? But it's. Yeah, I did, but now I've got you.

Conan O'Brien
Okay, let's start at the beginning. Hello there, Margaret. How are you? I'm great, thank you. Conan.

Margaret
Good to see you. Sona. Matt. I love the way you said my name. How did you say my name again?

Oh, God, I'm like such an improviser. Conan. Yeah, that's it. Oh, that's it. The last time she said it, didn't.

Sona Movsesian
It sounds like little a. Conan. Conan. Conan. Oh, did I say Conan?

Margaret
Yeah, I might have said Conan. Yeah. Where are you coming from? Where are you? I mean, emotionally.

Conan O'Brien
No, where are you in the world right now? Where are you emotionally? I'm, like, above my head emotionally. Is there a place out of your head? I am in Calgary, Canada.

Okay, so maybe that's what I was hearing. Maybe there's a little bit of a. Oh, yeah. Eh. Oh, yeah.

You're in Calgary, Canada. And tell us, I'm told that my kids say you're not supposed to make fun of accents. Oh, I wasn't making fun. I was, of course, just. She was making fun.

Sona Movsesian
She was saying hey and stuff. Not you. Oh, well, then you're a terrible person. I would never speak to you again. You're a terrible person, Margaret, and I think your kids are right.

Conan O'Brien
Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, I am, obviously. I'm a mom. I'm a recent empty nester. No, no, no, no.

Margaret
I kind of emptied the nest a bit. I'm one of those unusual. It's. Did you murder your family? Oh my God.

Conan O'Brien
Oh my God. Time for this nest to be emptied. Closed. I kind of. My kids were away, and then I sold my town home and.

Wow. So I kind of sold the nest. Whoa, wait a minute. How old are your kids? Like seven and eight.

How old are they? They are. They're 19 and 21. Okay. That's still pretty young.

Margaret
It's still pretty young. Well, okay, so the serious side of the story is I have elderly parents. I'm the youngest of four, and I'm the only single divorced one. And so when we thought, you know, it was getting to be the time where it felt like my parents could use some eyes on the ground and someone in there that could really, you know, just be there and make sure they don't need more support. Yep.

So my daughter happened to be in au pair in Italy at the time, and my son was living with his dad. So I was like, all right, guys, go and make a life. Go and make a life. I gave you the first 19 years. That's nice.

Conan O'Brien
I have said to Sona many times, hey, could you do me a favor? Go and make a life. And she made two. She made two. Well, she's got more on me than and my kids.

No, no. You seem formidable, Margaret. And tell us, so did you grow up in Calgary? Tell us about your life. I kind of did.

Margaret
Well, it's funny. So I was born here, but my parents came from. Well, they were in Oklahoma. When I was conceived, but they're New Yorkers and moved around a ton, and so when I was three, we moved back into the US for a few years. So, long story short, I'm canadian.

I grew up here mostly other than living in the states for a few years here and there. But I don't feel super canadian because I was raised by Americans. Understood, and I see that. And there's a big difference. There is a big difference.

Conan O'Brien
Yes. I noticed that there's a piano right behind you. There is. Is that just a coincidence, or are you. Oh, wow.

Margaret
I sort of took advantage of the moving in with my parents thing, and I took this career I've had. I've been a piano teacher and early childhood teacher for almost 40 years now. I'm in my early fifties, but I started young, and I kind of did this now or never thing and thought, okay, if I don't have to pay my mortgage quite as, you know, if I don't need quite as much financial support, I'm going to go for it. And I started a couple of unusual musical offerings. So I'm a pianist, obviously.

I hope with that I just made that clear, because I'm not super concise in this setting. No, no, that's okay. No, you put the main information at the end, but that's fine. In editing, we can put the main information up front. I'm a pianist, but then I also.

Conan O'Brien
So you're a pianist, and do you teach kids the piano, or do you teach them all kinds of music? Well, I do teach piano because it's kind of like the easiest place to put up a sign and say, hey, you know, help me. Help me with my career and allow me to connect with kids. So that's. That's really important.

Margaret
Then I also do this. This thing called intuitive composing, where I compose personal soundtracks for people based on, I guess, my. My intuition, my years of studying and being immersed in music. And then. Are you saying that you could talk to me for a little bit, get a sense of who I was, and then compose a song about me?

D
Can you do this? I can, yes. And what's. It's crazy. I know.

Margaret
I know it's not crazy. I absolutely believe you could do it. What kind of song would you. What would the song sound like? The jaws theme?

Conan O'Brien
No, not the jaws theme. The Halloween theme. Okay, everyone have sex.

Yay.

That one's actually. I think it's actually a combination of the two. The 6th thing is. Can you play the bass and the.

Yes. Oh, my God. Margaret. That is me. That is me menacing and clownish at the same time.

Wow, that is amazing. It's funny cause I really worked not to write it or create anything for you guys. Even though I knew I was gonna be on the show and the weekend, it just came to me. I'll be honest. Now I don't know if I should say Conan or Conan.

No, no, whatever. You know, as long as it don't said with respect and love, I'm fine. Is Bugs Bunny Carl stalling? I just kept thinking, what does that sound like? You guys know?

Yeah. Carl Stalling. Yeah, yeah, I know. Carl, did you watch Bugs Bunny? Yes, yes.

But which. Which tune specifically? Well, any of them, because I feel like you could be followed around by a.

Margaret
You know. Cause you do it in your podcast. Yes, Margaret, it's funny you say that about Bugs Bunny and how the Bugs Bunny themes and background music remind you of me because I've always thought I was a cartoon character. I've felt that way my whole life. Yeah, I love it.

Conan O'Brien
Yeah. So that's a very apt perception, and I will take it, I think. I mean, I was an avid cartoon watcher and Bugs Bunny was the thing. And when you. You tend to do those like, da da da da da.

Margaret
And you go into the funny accents, like the. Here, see, I don't want to. You know, you live in that. I swear. You live in a live world of people stalling.

Conan O'Brien
Yes, I do, Margaret. And I. You just showed me myself, and now I'm filled with dread. Oh, no. Oh, no.

I don't want to be near that guy. But you know what I love? Are you kidding? You know what I love, Margaret? I love that you're working with kids and you're making this music, and you say intuitive music.

So are they always using instruments or are they using stuff other than instruments sometimes to make music? Okay, well, so those are. So the intuitive composing is one of the things I'm offering. And the other thing, when I'm working with early childhood, so children that are five and under, it's called music in nature. And the intuitive side of that is just working with what is around and following sort of the children as they explore and then creating activities based on that.

Margaret
So, for example, we're out in a natural park. You know, if the children, if we find sticks, we're using the sticks and we're playing drums on the trees, or we're playing a graded fence xylophone, and we're sort of touring the park, and I'm creating. I mean, I obviously have a lot of songs I've created and activities to lead. But if something occurs to a child or even sometimes a parent, then I just change gears and try to follow their lead. In that respect, that sounds kind of.

Conan O'Brien
Fascinating because what you're doing is taking anything around you that's found and then showing kids this can be music. Or if not music, we can make noises with this. And then it's actually probably the most simplest form of creativity and a great thing for kids to learn, I would think. Well, yeah, I think so. Because, I mean, you know, arguably, just in any art, like any sound is music, right?

Margaret
And so what's fascinating, too, is you can teach children so many things, you know, like we spend a lot of time at the river and so right now in Calgary, we've got a lot of ice on the river's edge. So if we can yank pieces of ice off and we can, you know, hit the rocks with them, they make these incredible exploding sounds. But at the same time, children, you know, their little brains, they're learning about the physics is if we throw things, how things land, I hope. I hope they're also. I hope they're also learning.

Conan O'Brien
Stay away from an icy river. Are there parents that get worried are there parents that get worried about, you know, the kids and you're saying, hey, jump into that canyon and try and see if you can find something to make music out of. This is the woman that also sent her kids packing at seven. Let's walk on this really thin ice and see how many cracks we can get. Yeah, I know.

Matt just pointed out you told your kids to get lost at 17.

Margaret
There's a guest room here for them. Oh, yeah. Always nice to have a guest room, sort of. Five year old, there's a couch. You're five year old.

Conan O'Brien
Hey, five year old, we got you a guest room for when you're not working at the docks. I'm busy writing intuitive music, so you're gonna have to sleep in a guest room. Yeah.

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Sona Movsesian
I like olive. I like bell pepper. I like mushrooms. I know you don't like mushrooms. I like mushrooms.

Conan O'Brien
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Yeah. I don't know. Just to be a total jerk. Anyway, there is a correct answer. Oh.

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Margaret
But so say today, like, we're in a freeze melt pattern, the extremes, right? And so today, I had little kids that were in their rubber boots and rain suits and, you know, holding my hands. We were literally walking in the river, you know, the temperatures, I guess it's in the high fifties right now, speaking your language of fahrenheit. Well, we are the, which is very warm. We are the dominant empire, so.

Sona Movsesian
Oh, my God, I'm sorry. We're like the Rome one country. Well, you're welcome to your strange methods, Celsius and such, but, yeah, we really. Have our shit together. Well, we do.

Conan O'Brien
We invented the ring ding. Ring ding. What? It's a cake. It's a cake.

You know what a ring ding is? You ever had a ring ding before? You mean a ding dong? You mean a ring pop? There's a ring ding, isn't there?

Sona Movsesian
I don't know what a ring ding is. A ring ding. I looked up a ring ding. Ring ding. I thought there was a ring ding.

I don't know. This is important that we get to. The bottom of this. Yeah. This is the kind of stuff we worry about here in America.

Conan O'Brien
Margaret, no ring dings. That's it right there. So it's a knockoff ding dong. Yeah, yeah. Well, I always.

We knew of ring dings, and I think that's what they had maybe in our area. Well, I didn't know about. A ding dong is like a legit version. I love ding dong. Is it like a Twinkie cover chocolate.

Sona Movsesian
And then there's a cream filling. Yeah, but it's the same thing as a ring ding. I think in our area, we had ring ding. Yeah, but you're in our area now, so here it's a ding dong. You're in the ding dong dong territory.

Conan O'Brien
I think they're different. I bet they're different kind of ding dong. Yes. Hostess and then, whatever. Drake's dog and pony show.

Drake's cakes, please. No one cares. Look, we got to the. You know what's sad? Margaret, the dominant imp.

At least Margaret. Yes. The thing I love about this interview is that we got to the crux of who Margaret is, which is that ding dongs are made by hostess and ring dings are made by Drake's cakes. Correct. That's all.

And I knew that that's what we were gonna talk about the minute I knew that you worked. I was hoping we'd be doing natural music with children. Right. Well, these kids sound kind of hearty, like they get out there, you know, sometimes these days, parents, that's the hard part. Yeah.

Parents are too. Not Sona, but a lot of parents are too worried about their. You know, a lot of parents these days are too worried about their kids and rough play. Sona, not so much. She often doesn't know where they are.

That's true. I found them in the mall. Remember when I found your kids just wandering the parking lot out of them all? Yeah. They were just in the parking lot.

Yeah. And you had given them each a knife and told them, go get dinner. Yeah. They were going, mama, mama. And I was like, figure it out.

Figure it out. Yeah. And then you rented out their room. Margaret, Sona probably knows that nowadays there's a huge amount of information around risky play and how important it is for kids, which makes me laugh because I'm closer to Conan's era. Risky play was just go outside and don't come back until dinnertime.

Yes. But nowadays it's contrived. So I happen to be in a great spot with my year round music and nature program to encourage parents, you know, because everyone, resilience is the other catchphrase that parents are using right now. We want to teach resilience, which I would say is, you know, a mother of a 19 and 20 year old, that probably was too. In their face.

Margaret
You know, I think it's a good thing that we're hopefully going in the other direction. I was of the generation where you. Your parents never knew where you were. You wandered around. Someone invited you to get into a van.

Conan O'Brien
You just did. And if you were gone now and if you were gone for a couple of months without some ring dings and you arrived, they'd give you a ring ding, and you get all sleepy, and then you'd wake up in a different state. But what I'm saying is, that's the world I grew up in, and it was a better time. It was a better world. Someone's.

What did you put in this ring ding? I'm not taking that ringding. I'll take the untainted ding dong. This is the dumbest, by the way. Margaret, it's not your fault.

This is the dumbest conversation we've ever had. It's gone off the track more. It's completely not linear in any way. True. But still, ding dong.

So much so her computer is, like, defying. Yeah, her. To be a part of it. Oh, I thought she was just staring at us, trying to figure out, okay, I think we can more stuff we need to talk about with ring dings and ding dongs while she's getting back to us. Margaret's zoom froze.

While that's happening, we're gonna continue. Yeah, I don't see any reason why we should stop, but it froze and it's probably something to do with. Look, I'm not saying it's because of the connection in Calgary. It could be something's wrong with the telecommunications here in Los Angeles. I'm not gonna assume that it's one or the other.

I just do know that this is Eduardo's job and he's not doing it. Maybe they are inferior. Yeah, who knows? Well, the important thing is that we're together and while she. I have a ding dong story.

Hold on. I bet you do. What I'm saying is this gives us a chance to talk about ring dings and ding dongs while Margaret's not on. Go. It's ding dong story.

Sona Movsesian
It's a good story. I like it. My dad works. No, hold on. Margaret just paused for a second while you were.

Margaret
I want to hear that this is a real. It's not even a story. My dad used to say he used to work in a catering warehouse for lunch trucks. And we'd always call him and be like, can you bring us some ding dongs and donuts? And he'd always say, I already have two ding dongs at home.

Sona Movsesian
That's what I think of every day. That wouldn't work with ring rings or ring dings, whatever. But the point is you can't even have. I called my father once at his lab and I said, dad, can you bring some ring dings? Bite drakes when you come home.

Conan O'Brien
And he said, fuck you, I'm working.

Isn't that a charming story too? That's a charming story. It's just as charming as your story. Oh, my God, what a seventies. It's a different time, Margaret.

It's probably time. This is the hardest I've seen Sona lap in a long time. He just pushed the mic towards you.

He runs on laughs. I want those laughs. Oh, my God. I hate when she hides from a mic when. When she's laughing.

Those are golden. Hey, we're almost out of time. Margaret, do you think you could play us out with a little Conan's theme? Well, I've got a Conan theme, so. Yeah, I thought of something.

Okay, here we go. Oh, this is a different one. It's not going to be super long, but can I talk you through it? Sure. Yes.

Margaret
Okay, so c major is your key your key, I think so. Super straightforward guy, right? Yep. Okay. And very.

Again, the Carl stalling sort of upbeat. So the theme is.

And if you remember. Oh, we're the boys at the chorus. Yeah. Do you like our show?

And I'll do different harmonic foundation, like something like that. But that's great. I love that. When I start developing it, we got to get the zany. Like, the thing about you that I find, having listened to your podcast and this is all I can only write what I know of you.

Right. Which is the external Conan, is you'll just come out from left field with these zany things. Right. So what I'd start doing is I take the super straightforward theme and start adding these, like, dissonances. Right.

Conan O'Brien
Right. Those now make it into. I take the straightforward C major and I'm adding some five, seven flat thirds. You know what I love is that what I'm getting from that is someone who's basically upbeat, straightforward, well intentioned, but very damaged and broken. Like, I can feel like the little shards, little shards of glass.

Sona Movsesian
Doesn't that sound like. Yeah, little. It should be played on like a honky tonk piano that's detuned a little bit. It's ironic because it sounds like jazz and you. Yeah, I don't despise jazz.

Conan O'Brien
No, no, no. I despise. There's some jazz I really love, but. But there's some of it that I think is you guys are just. Man, oh, God.

Margaret
The jazz aspect of it. He likes the ring dings of jazz. Yeah. You like the ding. The jazz aspect of it is to indicate it's the intellect, because Conan's got this intellect.

Right. Yeah. Matt, what about my intellect? Where. And jazz is the intellectual music.

Right. That's out there. It's a very intellectual. That's what I like when I listen to music is some intellect thrown at me by a guy with a goatee and some bongos. No, I like some.

I like the jazz out. I like some jazz. We shouldn't talk about it. Eduardo takes it very personally because he's got one of those big collections of jazz, and he's always drinking his various liqueurs and going out to late night. Yeah, he's got a beret.

He turned you into honk in there. No, I never had you be that. I know what you'd be. What? You know, be that.

Conan O'Brien
What? I don't be that. You were never the guy in the beret. You were never that hipster. You were a different guy.

You were the guy that went to the Rose bowl swap meet. You bought an Isuza phone. I'm just saying, they're overlapping Venn diagrams. You had, like, a lot of irony going on. There's less irony with Eduardo.

He just loves that bad music. Anyway, Margaret, it has been very nice talking to you, and I really like the themes that you came up with me. And you know what I'd like to do someday? Meet up with you. We'll take a walk in the woods and recreate my theme using rods.

Oh, my God. Sticks, leaves. Amazing. And then we'll go and find the children that we weren't minding who are rapidly floating down the icy river. Okay.

Because you are all for risky play. I'm all for risky play. Yep. That sounds. Doesn't that sound a little naughty?

Sounds like. I'm all for risky play. I'm all for risky play. Yeah. Yeah.

Sona Movsesian
Margaret. Yeah. Margaret. Yeah, Margaret. You Canadians, you keep it close to the vest.

Conan O'Brien
Yeah. Oh, my God. No comment. It was lovely talking to you, Margaret, and thank you so much. Yeah.

I hope we meet someday in person. You seem like a really cool, nice person. Ah, thank you. Well, this was a real honor. And I think, you know, I've lived now.

Margaret
I've lived. Wow. Well, I think you were living before, and if you anything, we diminished in a bit. But thank you. You take care, Margaret.

Thank you, guys. Bye bye. Bye. Bye bye. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sona Mosesian and Matt Gorley produced by me, Matt Gorley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick Liao and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Yearwolf.

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Theme song by the White Stripes incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Erin Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Bautista and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan?

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This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.

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