Larry Wilmore | Club Random with Bill Maher

Bill Maher
My book is out now. It's called what this comedian said will shock you. And it's available now anywhere you get your books. Part of my career was fighting the conception that blacks couldn't be as good as writers, as whites. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to create tv shows.

Larry Wilmore
He could say the most offensive things and get away with it, you know? I believe you should be able to hit a child in the stomach or the Furnda. There he is. I heard a rumor you were gonna be. How you doing, man?

Good to say. Exactly. Yeah, well, I'm in this trial right now. This guy named Trump. I'm in the jury right now, so I was able to get away.

Bill Maher
You look hale. I'm doing good, man. How you doing? It's, you know, sixties. Yeah.

I'm not talking about the decade. I'm talking about us. Did you. You know, I would feel like, I think, you know, if you read the obituaries, people around our age are dying. So, like, when someone.

So if somebody says, how you doing? Exactly? You know, I mean, compared to. I mean, there's a lot of. I know.

When you. Yeah. Bill Walton. Yeah. That's crazy.

Just died yesterday. Right. 71. I'm 68. You start seeing those ages now.

I mean, I feel fine, but, you. Know, he was 72 in 72. 71. I write Bill Murray. Bill, 71, whatever.

Larry Wilmore
It was close. Let's just say one point more presidential election away. Exactly. When it comes to your life. But, you know, then people live to.

Bill Maher
Mel Brooks is 112 and still funny. That's why I always felt sad. I mean, this is gonna sound weird, but I always felt sad for, like, Prince Charles or King Charles. Cause it's like his mother, first of all, lived forever. Right, right.

Larry Wilmore
And that's his only thing he's waiting on in his life. Right. I mean, her father, like, died in his fifties or something. He had, like, lung cancer or something like that. He's thinking, if I look at the family tree, I don't have much longer.

And then he gets cancer. So you think he'd get, you know, a little bit of sympathy. But then Kate gets cancer, so he's. Like, I can't believe he. I know.

Bill Maher
What's your genetics like? Do your parents live pretty good? It's pretty good. My mom's father, he lived into his nineties. He's like that old school southern kind of black man, you know, from Arkansas.

Larry Wilmore
My father's side is more problematic. His dad died when he was 39, so he died of a brain hemorrhage, though. Oh, so my dad, it's kind of like that Mickey Mantle thing. But he didn't have the destructive thing where Mickey Mantle's father, you know, died when he was young or something. So.

Bill Maher
Mickey Hodgkin's disease. Yeah. And one of the reasons Mickey always. Thought he was gonna die. He thought he was gonna die.

And then he drank a lot and made himself. Yes, exactly. He actually lived longer than he should have. He did. He probably would have lived to 100.

He got, like, a liver transplant. He really fucked himself. He really did. He brought that upon himself. You wonder.

That's the mystery of life. Like, who could be? Yes, he probably had a rough childhood in Oklahoma. But once he got out of Oklahoma, how could it be better in the 1950s and sixties than to be the blond, good looking farm kid from Oklahoma who comes to the big city. Crazy is the star.

And I'm sure back then when chicks didn't put out. Oh, it was crazy. Oh, they did. Oh, not as much in the fifties. No.

Larry Wilmore
But for somebody like Mickey Mantle. That's what I'm saying. I think they made exceptions. Oh, thousand percent. I'm just saying less and less percentages.

Bill Maher
But yes, probably any one of them could have been persuaded by the right person. Because that is the thing about women that I think is under talked about. Like they do have. They're generally, of course, much more circumspect about giving up sexuality than we are. We have no scruples.

Okay. They have much more. And it's just their nature, it's biology. You wanna protect. They're being invaded.

You wanna make sure the person invading you is a little. Of course, we don't give a shit where we. Because we'd withdraw. But I feel like even back when it was much more dangerous to be a woman they still like, there's certain guys which they can't help themselves. No, guys had a good run.

Larry Wilmore
They had a really, like. People talk about me too. Yeah. I look at it like this. You motherfuckers had a good run?

Are we motherfuckers? We had a really good run in terms of being able to do whatever the fuck they wanted. Don't want me in there, or you? No. Just saying it wasn't my last.

Bill Maher
Every guy is certain. After the me too era. Which, of course, I think was a great development and long overdue. But every guy sort of is looked at. Thanks for the drink, by the way.

What's that? Thanks for that. Oh, yeah. Do you have what you want? Oh, yeah.

Larry Wilmore
This is perfect. But every guy is sort of looked on as like, well, you probably did something right. Exactly. I did things I wasn't proud of, but they were cad things. They weren't me too kind of things.

You know, it wasn't exactly. Okay, you know, I mean, like in bars. Here's the thing. People aren't gonna like this, but when we were coming up in bars, people felt up other people as a thing. No, I'm serious, Bill.

This sounds horrible, but I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. You weren't wrong. You're not wrong. People did that.

In fact, people would brag about it, you know, and in fact, they used to have it in movies. Hey, man, did you get any titty? You know, did you feel that? You know, or whatever? It was a thing for a guy to cop a feel.

That was the term, right? Cop a feel, yeah. I mean, being a woman then. I'm not saying that's the right thing. No, we're not at all.

Bill Maher
But being a woman then was like being a stripper now. Like in the strip club. Right, exactly. I just think they can touch you and. And in the strip club, you know, I mean, I personally think that that is what ruined strip clubs.

And I think once they went from something you looked at but couldn't touch, it was a, you know, stripping is an ancient art form that goes back 3000 years. There's even a fancy word for it. Ecdyst is a stripper. Ecdyst, yes, Ecdys. That sounds like one of those words from a sketch like the Marx brothers.

Larry Wilmore
I know it's going to be good.

Bill Maher
Right? Or this must be my lucky day. Ectiseus. Yes. It's greek.

I think it sounds greek. Well, it's kind of come full circle now. Like sometimes you look at the movies of those burlesque clubs where they'd have the tassels on the breasts going around like that. And sometimes you see women in those audiences and that type of thing. Cause like you said, it was a show.

Larry Wilmore
But now strip clubs, men and women go together again. It's more corporate now, too. It's all about the dollar bills. It has evolved. It's more like an after hours.

Exactly. And it's kind of chased the one in Miami. Eleven kind of combined. I think they were at the forefront of that, of kind of combining the strip club with the nightclub also. Rappers break their records there.

Exactly. And then clubs like eleven. I think 50 cent played there last New Year's Eve. Atlanta has a lot of clubs. He may have been late for the New Year's Eve.

Bill Maher
Show, which I thought was very funny. It's like the one thing. Hilarious, right?

Excuse me. 50 if you didn't, but I think I read that maybe it was somebody. It's the one time you don't want to be late. Come on. What?

Larry Wilmore
I missed. Where's everybody? I just thought that was. That's hilarious. It is.

Bill Maher
If it didn't happen, it should happen in a script. That's very funny. Look, I'm writing your whole next show for you. I love that. Thank you.

Given your character names, plot points, it writes a joke, so I'm so glad you came by. Yeah, we're gonna see. I'm gonna see you next week. We're doing the book event. Congrats on your book.

Larry Wilmore
Hit number one. Hit number one today. How awesome is that? Thank you. Do I have it here?

Bill Maher
Damn. Oh, I guess we have a commercial. No, I want it always. That's great, man. Yeah.

You know what? It's grueling selling a book I really got a great respect for. I mean, I just got back from New York and did eight shows in two days. Yeah. And I'm signing.

You sign a thousand books, and you're. Kind of given the same type of thing all the time. Well, I try variation. Yeah. Certainly, if they're.

If they're asking you directly about the book. That is true. Yeah, it's grueling. It's absolutely grueling. And I have, really a new respect for the people who make their living doing this, because this is not really, you know, this isn't something I don't.

Didn't have to do or need the money to do. Lots of people write books. That's their living. Exactly. So they gotta sell it.

Me, it was just, you know. And many of them aren't celebrities, too. You know, they're. No, I'm saying they're pounding the pavement out there selling. Yeah.

Michael Moore told me for one of his books, he did a 60 city tour. 60 city tour. That's a lot. That's a lot. I went to New York for two days.

I was wrung out. Yeah. I did a book tour I wrote in 2009, I think it was. And we were at the book festival in Miami, and I was there with John Hodgman, and there was a guy supposed to interview us, and we were just riffing backstage like, we don't really need you. And we just interviewed each other on stage.

Larry Wilmore
It was so hilarious. We didn't even talk about our books, you know. But thank you for doing this. Of course. Really appreciate it.

It's my pleasure. You sent me a list of like 20 people and I circled about three of them, but you were one of them. I appreciate that. Can I embarrass you for a quick second? Please do.

I will. Because I have to give people their props. You know, when my show went away, you emailed me. I don't forget stuff like this. You didn't have to do it.

You did it directly. You didn't do it through people. You said, hey, man, you know, it was good. You did good. You know, if you ever want to come to my show, I mean, you were just nice and I don't forget shit like that.

Bill Maher
Thank you. Well, no, I meant it. I don't do it unless I mean it. I am not the slap on the. Back for nothing kind of guy.

So when you do get a compliment from something, it means something, you know? I mean, I certainly don't have a reputation as being cuddly, even though everybody who actually knows me would. I pretty much am. But, you know, I thought, you know, you did a better show than, I mean, God, how many shows have been in that? I know this is time slot than 90% of them.

Larry Wilmore
I appreciate that. You know, and I still hear that's partly because a lot of other, well. We tackled race really shitty and we tackled race head on, like when nobody was doing that. And I still hear from people at least once or twice a week, say, larry, we miss your show. What they really miss is nobody's talking about those issues and doing it with comedy.

You know, like, but we have to do a show like, and I'm all. For that as long as we hear both sides. Right, exactly. Because there is a large black silent majority, in my view. Yeah, they are not as liberal as the white.

Bill Maher
I agree. And I feel like I certainly personally know people, black men who don't. They're not with AOC, it's every black family, Bill. That's what it's called. This fight going on.

Larry Wilmore
You mean it's 1000% true? Because especially multigenerational families, many, especially older blacks, I'm old enough to know. We never said liberal or conservative. We've never said those things. Blacks were mainly in the democratic party when I was a kid, but they used to be in the republican party, of course, for different reasons, of course.

But it was really about the Civil Rights act and Voting rights act in the sixties that put most of the democratic party, most of the blacks in the democratic party. But being an activist for whatever they stand for is different than having an allegiance to a party for a reason. In this book, what this comedian said will shock you, which just went to number one.

Bill Maher
There is one of the editorials I worked in there. I reworked them all. But it's. The basic idea was a political party is like your lawyer. They both use the word representative.

You have a representative in court and you have a representative in Congress, and it kind of means the same thing. And that's what people make a decision on. They're not sentimental about it. When the republican party was the party of emancipation. Right.

You're my lawyer. Right. Exactly. For good reason. Yeah.

And when it switched, because it was the Democrats who undid reconstruction. And, you know, Andrew Johnson. Johnson was a Democrat. He was a motherfucker. Right.

Lincoln was the Republican. Then it switched, and Kennedy sent troops into the south. And Hubert Humphrey introduced the first Civil Rights act. It was the Dixiecrat Democrats who walked out of the convention in 1948 just because Hubert Humphrey suggested a plank, a civil rights plank. Right.

Larry Wilmore
And he said famously, segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. That was George Wallace in 1963. And when Kennedy sent troops into the south so they could go to school and so forth. Okay, now you're my lawyer. Exactly.

Bill Maher
See, now you represent me. I have a healthy outlook on this. I just view all white people as problematic. Doesn't matter what party you're in. There's just going to be.

And I know that's a joke, and you can make every joke in the world on this. I just want to point out. Yes. That we do live in an era now. Yes.

Where lots of stuff can't happen in reverse. Yes. Like, I can't make that joke about you. Right. Well, that's the top dog.

And I don't want to. But I couldn't say what you said in reverse with blood. Absolutely. And there's lots of examples I could give of that. And that's okay.

I ain't mad at that. I'm just saying let's. You just can't say it in public.

I believe everything is in public. Now. What in the fucking world is not in public? That's true. But here's the thing.

Larry Wilmore
That's just the top dog underdog dynamic is what I call it. You know, like top dog underdog gets to make fun of top dog, but top dog. Yeah, that's true. I tell you, I ain't mad at it. It goes beyond that.

Bill Maher
I mean, sometimes it's. I mean, you can find a lot of TikTok. Yeah. Of young. A lot of tiktoks.

Black women, usually women. But I guess I'm saying I just can't deal with white people today.

Larry Wilmore
And again, some of that, you know what that is, though? It's just, if. Can you imagine if a white person said that in reverse? So. And it's not a good thing.

They just don't put it. They don't put it online. But some of them do say that. But the fact that you make a TikTok out of it says a lot. You have permission, you have cultural permission to do it.

Bill Maher
Cultural permission, what a beautiful phrase. But that isn't a health. That is not to be serious. Is not a healthy attitude and an unnecessary attitude. I want to know the specifics of how whitey fucked up your day.

Larry Wilmore
She feels the weight of the diaspora. You're just going to Starbucks, for fuck's sake. I think, you know, it's just not healthy. Yeah, I think there's a lot of oppression by proxy with a lot of young people, you know, and the, another beautiful friend. And the by proxy is the generations who actually went through a lot of the heavy lifting of oppression.

Bill Maher
Exactly. And segregation. And so they're. And look, you can have generational trauma and those types of things. It expresses itself in different ways, especially like the health of individuals and stuff like that, because certain traits are passed down and as well as habits.

Larry Wilmore
Cause sometimes culturally, you can stop. You can be the intervention on bad legacies and that types of things, of course, education and that type of thing. But I think a lot, and I know this is old man yelling at the clouds type of thing for me, but a lot of it, I believe, is that is suffering by extinction. Like a lot of. Sometimes protests, like when I see protest by proxy, I feel that way.

As opposed to protests when you have skin in the game, right. You know, right where it's like you don't have skin in the game. So you can say whatever the fuck you want. If you have skin in the game, you're gonna act a little differently when it comes to this. And that's why things will be in perspective.

Bill, a little more. It was dumb for them to compare the Vietnam protests in the sixties. Those kids did have skin in the game. That's correct. They did not want to get drafted.

Bill Maher
They could go to Vietnam. Exactly. Different. That's exactly right. You know what?

Larry Wilmore
Part of me, too, I feel the civil rights movement. I'm upset that the civil rights movement and the extension of it became a political football. That really hurts me. Cause to me, it was never a political movement, nor should it ever been. It was more like a human movement.

Bill Maher
How could it not become political, though? I don't know. But to me, because it involved. It needed to involve government and government. But both sides came together to pass those bills.

Larry Wilmore
You know, if you look at what Lyndon Johnson did, he brought the right and the left together to pass those landmark bills. He didn't do it one site. Okay. But many people, I'm sure, voted against him. Absolutely.

Bill Maher
Okay. So. But enough voted forward, which is extraordinary. But that still requires politics to actually, you know, Lyndon Johnson, the great picture of him leaning over to that guy, you know that picture I'm talking about? Sure.

Larry Wilmore
I was just at the library, actually. That one picture shows that's how government is done. Sad, though, is to say he was. You vote for my bill, my friend, or let me tell you, there may be trouble in your district. Good impression.

Bill Maher
Well, whatever. It's like a generic southerner, but, you know. Well, here's what I mean. Let me be a little bit clear. I shouldn't say politics like it's not a movement of the left.

Larry Wilmore
No, that's what I mean. No. And it's not a movement of the right to me, it's a humanist movement. That's what I mean. But I think it was hijacked by the left.

And I think a lot of the reasons why was because I think the Vietnam movement kind of rode its coattails, you know, of the civil rights. That's how I'm saying everything. I mean, everything else, it kind of. Got blended together, which that was certainly a movement of the left. You know, I feel like all of the flow of our history, of any history is just backlash to backlash.

Bill Maher
Like something causes something. So, like, there was the original sin of slavery, and then we fought the war. And so now they hate the north, and now the Republicans and the Democrats, you know, and then the Democrats came to be the champions before when the Republicans were more the champions of the african american. And it just causes. I mean, the Republicans, after they lost that constituency, they went the other way.

Reagan opened his campaign in 1980 in Philadelphia, Mississippi. And that was a deli. I mean, Philadelphia, it wasn't lost on people. It was not lost on people. It was a place where there was a racial attraction, and he was winking at it and he was saying, you know, not overtly, but racists, the people who are still racist, because certainly 1980, we were still in, I would say, the racist era.

I guess we'll always be, to a degree. Yeah, well, everybody much more. And he was saying to them, you're welcome in this party because it's obvious by now, this is 16 years after JFK that this is where the lines are drawn. Now in America. I remember reading a quote from a guy and I cannot say the quote.

So maybe I'll just point to you.

Okay, so this is some guy, it was some poor guy in Louis, white guy in Louisiana. And this was his summation of politics. Republicans are for the rich, the Democrats are for the niggers. Who's for me? Yeah, right.

That was. I thought it was like a haiku of poor. Well, Bill, here's the other thing that was not. Here's the thing a lot of people don't realize that wasn't controversial language for people. No, I read it.

I believe I read it in the newspaper. I remember Johnny Carson actually said that with retro Pryor was. You know. Cause he was saying, you don't use the word nigger anyway. Like he was saying that and Richard's partner said, nick, why are you using it?

They, Teddy Carson, they did a whole sketch on SNL. Oh yeah, yeah. In 1975. I mean it was just. I just think people were more mature then and they could.

They had the context of, okay, we're using this word, but we're not using it in exactly to be derogatory. And very often in fact we're using it to sticking a pin in the cause of satirizing racism. Exactly. John Lennon had a song. I remember.

Larry Wilmore
I'm a big Beatles fan by the way too. Something. Oh good. There you go. You must be if you know that shitty song and shitty record.

It's not a good title either. It's not a good record. Yeah, it's called sometime in New York City. Absolutely. And John had moved to New York.

Yeah, he was drunk on Yoko. He was during that time. And remember that's why he needed that long fucking weekend with Mei Lee or whoever she was. May Lee, I could bust you for racism on that one. Yeah, that's right, Larry.

Bill Maher
They're all called May Lee. Yeah, we too low. It's the dream. We love you long time.

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That's buddy Miles. That's amazing. That's. It was in an album I had when I was like 13. Yes.

Larry Wilmore
Albums. Like when you. Yeah, because they gave you a poster. Exactly. And then you can, like, look at that.

Yeah, I love that. So cool. The creases. How. That's awesome.

Bill Maher
I know. Anyway, so when Jon. Yeah, he. They moved to New York after the Beatles broke up. That's the, you know, the Dakota, the place where he was unfortunately shot.

Larry Wilmore
Under investigation by Nixon at the time. Yes. And they were Elvis's help. They were trying to throw him out of. Nixon was trying to throw him out of the country.

Bill Maher
He got past that and loved New York, that he could walk around. And, you know, they lived Dakota 72nd in Central Park west. And you know the guy who imagines no possessions? Elvis Costello busted him on a song called the other side of summer. Was there a millionaire who said, imagine no possessions?

And, yeah, they had one floor just with shit in it. They bought a whole floor of the Dakota. There's a lot of excess. Yeah, yeah. Well, it doesn't mean I don't love them, but, like, a lot of contradictions with Lennon starch are just not like us.

When they do dumb things like. And rock stars get away with the most. Well, of course they get away with nobody's. And look, I think they were a very sincere couple, but it does make me laugh that, like, okay, I'm at the end of my rope to my marriage station. This asian woman, I'm gonna leave with a asian woman who's our secretary.

I mean, it's like, talk about bringing your troubles with you. No, Yoko version two. Be impressive. Obviously, you need something different, man. Yeah.

Larry Wilmore
You know what was interesting? Going to the Beatles. People say that the real love affair, the real love story was John and Paul. Actually, I say that. Yeah, it was John and Paul.

Bill Maher
I say that often with whoever will listen. And I have this running argument going with someone. I won't say no, but he's a very close friend. And I say, have you seen. It's an eight hour movie.

Yeah, the whole movie. We're talking about the get it, get back movie. That's the let it be movie that they were making in 1969, which was. Supposed to be just a filler for a tv show. Actually, no, they wanted to make a movie.

They had grand ideas about a big finale that they were going to film. The documentary part was the filler for the concert. It was going to be a live concert, and then they were just going to show. I know, but they talked about it being on an amphitheater in Greece. And then they wind up going to the roof.

Larry Wilmore
Awesome. Yeah, like, Ringo's like, I'm not going to some stupid amphitheater theater. And they were going to do it on a boat and, you know, all this shit, and then they just go up on the roof. You gotta love a garage band. It's awesome.

Bill Maher
The greatest garage band in the world. It's the best. Yeah, that's the best. But, like, throughout the whole movie, he never even looks at Yoko. It's just like a potted plant.

And he and Paul are making eye contact the whole time, making each other laugh. It is a love affair. You can see it on camera complete. And I just don't understand why I have to even have this argument with people. No, they hated each other.

Larry Wilmore
No, absolutely. You can lie with your mouth and lie in writing, but you cannot lie in pictures of your face. This is what the tabloids do best. They get pictures of people. And the pictures never lie if you're having a good time in the relationship.

That's right. They're looking at each other, they're making eye contact, they're smiling, they're laughing. And then there's those. Well, even the, I think what really, when the Beatles hit, you know, people, you know, they were kind of androgynous, I guess you could say, you know, using words now, people weren't really using that then. Yes, but it was like, this is the term that I use with my daughter.

I said it was really just good old fashioned man on man love. Right. You know, where the love between men, it's a bond that. And I don't mean in a homosexual way. I mean, but men have a certain type of love of each other that, where they really want to be around each other.

Cause they share the same interests, which in that case is music making. Wait a second. Not in a homosexual way. Larry, I was gonna pour you another drink. Oh, well, just to be is what I'm saying.

Bill Maher
Now I feel like an asshole. And I was roofing you and everything. Apparently John was bisexual too, you know. No, well, there's that one. He took that trip with Brian epstein.

Larry Wilmore
He took a trip with him, same. Brian had a crush on him. Brian was gay. We all know that. But that doesn't mean they fucked on that trip.

Bill Maher
But you're right. I put it at a 50 50. I don't think it's impossible because it could have happened. It just, it's weird to me because I would never do that. I would never, like, oh, you know what?

I just think I'll see what it feels like to be in a man's ass all day. Not only does it not cross my mind, if it does, it upsets me. I don't want to do that. That doesn't mean I don't love gay people, but I'm not one of them. And so I don't get the, eh, I'll give it a try.

It's just not something I would, I feel that way about. I feel strongly about. But if John was bisexual or didn't know he was bisexual, then maybe being with Brian kind of awakened that side of him. So it wasn't a straight guy doing that, but it was somebody who nobody had the inclination to do. Let's see.

Let's see if we can. Let's see if we can introduce Yoko into this scenario where he's really secretly gay because she was a mother. Not secretly gay. Bisexual. Okay.

Right. Bisexual. Right. Which is different. Very different.

So I could fit that in because she was a. I think Albert Goldman was one of. Brilliantly pointed out, he went from a stern. Yeah. Mother figure with his aunt Mimi.

Larry Wilmore
Right. To another stern mother figure, some would say, in Yoko. And arguably, Cynthia was probably better suited for him as a mate and called her mother. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill Maher
Whenever a guy calls his wife mother, it's over. I'm so out here. So this is an oedipal type of thing. You want to have sex with your mom. I mean, it's just.

Ugh. Yeah. I mean, she calling you daddy. Nothing wrong with that. And he was pretty much abandoned by.

Larry Wilmore
He felt he was abandoned by his mother and his father because that was his aunt who raised. Well, his mother. Yes, he. Right. Even before she died, she kind of like, I'm not trying to raise the son right now.

Bill Maher
I mean, his father. Just playing up. Got a cab. Oh, he was addicted. Yeah.

I mean, okay, so that happens a lot. Yeah. I mean, we don't condone it, but that's it. That's another thing. Oh, yeah.

Larry Wilmore
People don't realize how fucked up the world was like with those types of things. Like, men were just a fucking abandoned families back then. It was crazy. I mean, not that that still doesn't go on. Right.

But, I mean, it was ruthless in those days. That's why you have all those orphan stories and that type of thing. Let me ask you this. What do you think of, like, the Larry Elder school? There is a school with facts.

Bill Maher
Larry Elder is not an unserious person. Sure. No, no, I know Larry. Okay. Yeah, right.

And he's not the only one. And they say they give stats about black below the poverty line. Most of the progress was made between 1940 and 1960. This is their argument against the social justice stuff, even of the Lyndon Johnson eras. And one of the stats is also that, like, kids, black kids being born in a home with two parents, much higher.

Like 67% in 1960. And by 1995, it was like 30, 40 points lower. Right. What do you think of that thesis proving? I mean, that's what conservative black.

Larry Wilmore
Well, I think those types of things because just so you know, I went down like a conservative rabbit hole in the nineties. Like the whole nineties I spent going down this and reading up on all these people and listening to Thomas Sowell. All of it. All of it. Right.

Thomas Sowell, all of these people. Even Larry Elder when he first came on. And Dennis Prager. All these people. And, you know, because my parents blessed me with the ability to think for myself, which is why I love you.

Bill Maher
Too, because you think at you. Right, right. So keeping it hundred. Exactly. Right.

Larry Wilmore
I take the things that I feel are to be true in my experience. And I don't care who says it. I don't care who says something if it's true. Exactly. And I take things that I think.

I think you have an agenda there, that you're using this evidence to prove an agenda. And I make a distinction. Exactly how I try to do it. I make a distinction. Can I have a cigar?

Is that. I brought a cigar. No, this is not a cigar. Do you mind if I smoke? Oh, no.

Okay. Smoke anything you want here. Oh, I appreciate it, but I brought it to me. Why do you want to, though? What do you get out of that?

Bill Maher
I don't get it. It's a relaxation thing. Why? What's relaxing about it? It just is.

Larry Wilmore
I don't know how to do it, really. I know so many men are into it. Yeah. I've been smuggling cigars for at least 25 years. Yeah, yeah.

Bill Maher
But you don't inhale it. Of course. No, you don't inhale. So that's what makes it. What makes it.

Larry Wilmore
No, you still get a buzz from cigars. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. You get a buzz from a cigar. Absolutely.

Especially a real strong. Give me one. No, I'm serious. You didn't. People don't realize that.

Bill Maher
I don't realize that. This is a Jerry Lewis slider, by the way. You'll see what I mean.

Right. Well, ladies, ladies. But I'll tell you about this one. There's a guy who got away with murder. Oh, yeah.

When he was like, oh, oh, Bill. It was crazy in those days. I mean, he really assaulted women, but, I mean, he really did. But. Okay.

Larry Wilmore
A lot of different things can be true at the same time. Okay, so true. So let me. Let me just hit spears about this real quick. So a lot of those programs did break down the black family in this way in order to qualify for welfare.

A man couldn't be in the house. Okay. That was insidious to me. The government said, in fact, the movie Claudine explores that. James Earl Jones and Diane Carroll.

And so a lot of black families were broken up because if you were poor and destitute, and you needed the money, man couldn't be in the house. So why are you gonna be married? And that happened from the sixties on. So that explains a lot of the. Brazilian that happened from the sixties on.

Correct. So. And we're talking about poor families. Okay, so let's continue down this. Cause this is always, what I'm trying to do is I don't trust either side.

Bill Maher
I feel like they. Not that they don't lie, they just don't give you the full story. Exactly. They have an agenda. Now this is great.

I'm trying to. I have a word for it, by the way. I call it Primo Simp Jurius. You were like that. Primo simp Jurius.

Larry Wilmore
That's Latin for first Simpson jury. Okay. Yeah. Where they clearly had an agenda. Jury's like, this black man is not going to jail.

I'm not on our watch. He is not going to jail. Right. But that's what I felt, at least here. So.

Bill Maher
And I was defended black America on that one. Oh, yeah. I'm not mad at the people. Like, no one's fooled that it wasn't a murder, but the fact that white America couldn't stand and got one was so much more offensive than the murder itself. Exactly.

Larry Wilmore
That's exactly what it was. So anyhow, so this thing is, that's partly to blame what happened in a lot of poor black communities where families were broken up like that, especially young people. Why would they get married if they're not gonna have government assistance? So many people didn't even get married. Right, right.

So that did a lot of. But who passed that law? That was the great society. Okay, so that's their point. Was that the great society?

Right. But there's another point here. But there's also a growing black middle class and black upper class that's happened where families are together. And education has been the key for that. Education has been a tool that always the key.

And it's always the key. People don't talk about how much bigger the black middle class is now than it was back then. Most black people live in the suburbs. Correct. So that's the other part of it.

So why don't we look at the successes of it, too? What'd you think of Biden's speech at Moorhead? Me too. I didn't like it. I loved Andrew Sullivan's column, as I always.

I love Andrew Sullivan. Yes. And he, I thought he had it right. First of all, he quoted Obama speaking at the same college he got like ten years earlier. And it was night and day.

Bill Maher
Obama's was all about, you know, so many doors have been broken down. You have so many good reasons to hope and no more excuses. And went over way better. Of course, obviously, it's different standard he's working from as a black man speaking to that college. But Biden's was just so, like, I thought, 2000 late.

Larry Wilmore
It's condescending. This is the reason. Condescending. I couldn't. One of the reasons why Al Gore really turned me off in 2000 when he was running against Bill Bradley in the primaries, and I'm a basketball fan, so don't talk against Bill Bradley.

He's one of the classic Knicks. One of the classic Knicks fan since he was. Exactly. So even though I was a Laker fan, the Knicks have always been my second team. So I'm not mad at Bill Bradley at all.

Love Bill Bradley. But Al Gore said something like, if you vote for Bill Bradley, you're going to go back to the time when black people were like one of those type of statements. You know, he was trying to. Bill Bradley's a Democrat. I know, but he was trying to make a point, because I don't know if Bill Bradley said something or whatever, but he said something like that.

Bill Maher
Bill Bradley's a big liberal. Trust me. He said something like that. Oh, I believe in that vein. And I'm like, who, Elgar?

Larry Wilmore
You have a lot of fucking nerve. You know, first of all, he's the one from Tennessee, you know, that's not. Half as obnoxious as when Biden told Charlemagne, oh, yeah, if he ain't black, you know, that is such a bad attitude. So my take on this, too, Bill, is that I tell people I was born in 1961, right? And I was too young to know what was going, all the bad shit that was going on in the world.

But here's what I wasn't too young to get, that we were trying to go to the moon, you know? And so I call my generation moonshot generation. Like anything was possible where you were eight. Yeah, anything was possible. We went to the fucking moon.

And so Obama was born the same year as me. He became president. And when I hosted the White House correspondence and I did Obama's last one, I remember, and I said the line that apparently, you know, got me in trouble. Fuck you, motherfuckers. I said, you know, when we were kids, a black man couldn't even lead, be the quarterback of a football team.

Bill Maher
And you're the leader of the world. And I said, yo, barry, you did it, my nigga. You did it. Oh, I remember. And I cried when I wrote the line, bill, because of what it meant.

Larry Wilmore
And to me, I live in the world of aspiration, not in the world of desperation, you know, because I know those things exist. I've talked about them, make jokes about it, but I always keep it in perspective of, you have to, if you want to build something, you don't want to just put band Aids on things in your life. You want to also build things in your life, too. And you build through being inspired. It's such a healthier attitude, even if you're not political, just to understand that it's a healthier attitude for any individual and that we, as much as, you know, have this despicable past and somewhat despicable present.

Bill Maher
But there's despicable everywhere. You still eminently live now in a society where that is possible, where anything is possible. And I like when people point out, like, I was doing something in Salt Lake City. It was a special called Larry Wilmer's race, religion and sex in Utah was the name that I did. It showed.

What was it called? Larry Wilmore's race, religion and sex in Utah was the complete title. It was a special identity. Showtime. This is when Obama was running 2012.

Larry Wilmore
And people are like, and I wanted to have Mormons on the show. I just wanted to get their experience of things because Mitt Romney was running then. And I learned a lot about Mormons and how much they actually work and do things in poor black communities and that kind of stuff, too. It's really interesting. Mormons are interesting people, but people are like.

But people were trying to tell me, yeah, for a lot of different reasons. Larry Morgan's, you know, up until 1978, you know, they wouldn't allow black people in church. I'm like, you give me one institution in America that didn't have a racist expiration date. You know, theirs was just in the seventies, you know. Right.

Give me the Baptist church. When was their racist expiration date? The Democratic Party, give me their racist expiration date. I mean, it's funny, you know, they go after this premier, prime minister of Italy named Giorgio Maloney. And look, she's, I don't think she's a kook at all.

Bill Maher
She's a conservative. She got elected, okay? She's not a nut, right? They constantly. But because they have, because nothing is nuanced anymore in the paper, they always talk.

The second thing out of their mouth is always, well, she has fascist party roots, right? Yes, because, like, her grandfather, something, something Mussolini. And I always want to say the Democratic Party has Ku Klux Klan roots. Robert Byrd was your speaker. Absolutely.

Not that long ago. And he was in the Klan completely. And again, the Dixiecrats. Strom Thurmond, he was successful in the Klan. He was the grand wizard.

Robert Byrd, he was the grand wizard. I think it was the grand wizard not only in the Klan like he did well in the Klan, Bill, you're leaving out the most important part. He was a success. Yeah, but you know, you know, those top brass, they don't know anything about the field. He was a bureaucrat in the clans.

Larry Wilmore
Exactly. That's how you get to the top. You kiss ass and you go along and you're political, okay? So, you know, you don't have to actually burn the crosses. The guys in the trenches, the crosses, the sergeants, the lieutenants, they're the ones doing all the work.

Bill Maher
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Terms, conditions, message, and data rates may apply. Hey, I'll be at the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand Hotel and Casino June 21 and 22nd in Las Vegas. The Orpheum in Minneapolis, Minnesota, July 13 and the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee on July 14. July 26, the MGM Music hall at Fenway Park, Boston, Massachusetts, and July 27, Toyota Oakdale Theater in Wallingford, Connecticut. You mentioned Utah.

I just made me think there was a. Here's a woke thing that pissed me off. Yeah, okay. So I'm reading and I don't want. I want to be.

I love the New York Times today. I've been reading it since I was a child. Literally a child. They've got a lot more woke and so I do take my shots at them, but I hope they've been reading. It for about 45 years.

Yeah, I hope they know. I certainly don't stop reading them. Okay. But some things make my eyes roll. And so I'm sorry I have to mention it.

I don't have to mention this, and it's trivial, but it's just an example of the kind of person that is in the newsroom now. I'm sorry, but they're probably of a certain generation that thinks I'm a square, but I'm not the square, actually. So I'm reading this. It's reading about Rudy Joubert, Rudy Gobert. Do you know sport, the basketball player?

Larry Wilmore
Yeah, yeah. From Minnesota. Yeah. Now, okay, but he was on the jazz, right? Yes, that's right.

Bill Maher
So he gets traded to the wolves. They're now in the semifinals, right? Western conference final. Yeah. So, and it was like, the headline was like, so that when he got traded, there a story about him, like Rudy Gobert on playing defense and whatever, and racism in Utah.

And I thought, oh, I can't wait to get to this part because it sounds like this. And then the question comes, what about racism in Utah? And Rudy Joubert's answer was, yeah, everybody was great to us all the time. My wife, my family, they were just great. And you can almost feel the reporter's disappointment, like, exactly.

Oh, there was no racism. I mean, that's great. There was no racism. And you, too, I'm sure you want. To take your time.

And that's the thing about the younger generations that you were getting at before. They feel cheated by progress. Yeah. You know, that's a good way to put it. Yeah.

Right. Like there's something's being missed out on. You really don't want that. No, you think you do, but you really don't. And granted, the other thing is, because of social media, when there are incidents, they get blown up.

Larry Wilmore
Like, that's the norm, but it's not. You're not going to go in the south and there aren't separate bathrooms, you know, like that. What people are blowing up on social media was the norm everywhere. At a certain point, that's the biggest change. It's not.

Now, there are incidents here and there, but it feels like it's everywhere because if it's being shared, you know, I. Feel like racism is written about almost exclusively by people who live in places where they never actually see anything sometimes. Yeah, this town, nothing could be racist. Nothing could be less cool than to be racist. In 2024, this is not most of your life, but that's where we are now.

Bill Maher
Great. I'm applauding it. But, like, in the places where people write, New York, LA, Washington, they don't actually see it. They're writing about imagined racism, right. But they practice it.

That the deplorables are doing in the part of the country they never actually see. Right. And sometimes. And there is some of that. Right.

There is some of that still. There is a residual, but it's probably older and fading and not controlled. Like, part of my career was fighting the conception that blacks couldn't be as good as writers, as whites. So, like, a white writer could be on a black show, but a black writer could never be on a white show. So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to create tv shows, so I could open up those opportunities, improve.

And you did? Yeah. When I created the Bernie Mac show, it was a conversation of a friend of mine had said, larry, how come there's no black Seinfeld? And I said, cause you haven't written it yet. And then I went, oh, shit, I haven't written it yet.

Larry Wilmore
But what she meant was a black show that's considered smart and not just funny, you know. Cause white shows were considered the good white shows. You know, there's a lot of Drec and stuff. But a show like Seinfeld was not just funny, it was considered smart. And black shows never had that considered smart element to Bernie Mac was.

But Bernie Mac broke through with that to do that. Considered smart. Well, I have to say, Bernie Mac was just a genius performer. It really was like, he kind of liked the black Jack Benny to me, you know. Cause he was just like, so under, like the least little.

Bill Maher
And it worked so well. That. That's a great analogy. Yeah, he was just a minimalist. Absolutely.

Larry Wilmore
Like his vision. Yeah. With just a few words and a look and just. And he had one of those abilities where he could say the most offensive things and get away with it, you know? Like he said, I believe you should be able to hit a child in the stomach.

Bill Maher
Or the throat. Or the throat. I mean, who says you should be able to hit a kid in the throat? But I don't imagine you gave him many long speeches. No, no, no, we had a great.

He just did everything so compact. No, he was great. And I always said, bernie, this is just the script. If you want to change this, then do it. But we talked very much about the content of it, you know, and I just wanted to make sure we knew, if we both knew what the scene was about.

Larry Wilmore
You can change the words because we know what the scene's about. Right. So that's how we approached it. But he was so good. He would do the lines, too, but he had such a great sense of what the scene was and that sort of thing.

So our conversations were very short. Remember him in bad Santa? Oh, yeah. It's hilarious. Oh, my God.

Bill Maher
Really? That is a genius comedy portrayal. I mean. Yeah. Bernie's memes.

Larry Wilmore
He has memes for a reason, because his face was so expressive. You know, just the way he would look at something. And then. What is it that took him so young? Sarcoidocious.

It was an autoimmune disease. He actually died, I think, of pneumonia, but it was the autoimmune disease. I think he got pneumonia twice in the hospital. Why did he have an autoimmune disease? It's something, this particular one.

Many black people get it for some reason. Kind of like lupus and that sort of thing. It's one of those things. It's not sexy. Anemia.

Not related to that, but it just happens to be one of those things. Like, certain cultures are just predisposed just from it being passed down over the years to get certain things. You know who. Go figure. Yeah, well, or it could also be the food.

I don't know. I mean, who knows? Could be. Who knows? Yeah, well, that's always what I say about all medical issues.

Bill Maher
Who knows, right? Not that they don't know more than they used to. They just don't know much. And so let a thousand flowers bloom don't cut me off from any medical theory. I know you think some of it is crackpot, right?

But so many times we've learned that what you were doing was crackpot, right? And what someone thought was crackpot turned out to be not the crackpot. Right? So let's just hear everything. Yeah, don't stop me from hearing everything.

Larry Wilmore
I agree with you. You know, I've heard you talk about this subject a lot, and I agree with you in the big picture because it's funny. Bill, medicine and astronomy are the two most changing subjects that we've had forever. The earth is flat.

The sun revolves around there. You are excommunicated from the church. A leech should be put on Yosef to get the blood out of your system. It's like medicine. It keeps proving it so wrong.

Bill Maher
You don't even have to go back that far. 15 years ago, they were telling us to eat trans fats, which now are illegal. So the thing then, that was like, I can't believe it's not butter Oleo. It was fake. But now they found out fat was the enemy.

Larry Wilmore
But meanwhile they're helping us with this. Was a certain type of fat that they, again, this is this century. We're saying, get this shit in you. And then went, oh, whoops. It's so bad that we pulled it off the shelves.

The U turns in 20th century. So don't tell me. I mean, Bill, the icon of healthy food at one point was Tony the fucking tiger. Right? It's great.

I mean, he was speaking to kids about pumping all that sugar in your body first thing in the morning. Did you see Seinfeld's pop tart movie? Oh, yeah, on Friday. It's a fucking scream. Yeah, there's a lot of funny stuff.

Bill Maher
It's so funny. I mean, I heard these things like, what is this movie? People were like, what the fuck is this? And then it was so. I mean, it was so adeptly paced.

You know, it just went from one. It's kind of old fashioned in a fun way. Very sixties. I mean, about the sixties. But also invoked a kind of a filmmaking style.

Larry Wilmore
A little bit of Preston Sturges in some ways. Yes, a little bit of that which. They had totally revived in the sixties. And Elizabeth six. Yes.

And a little bit of sexy. Preston Sturges had that kind of snappy style where you could barely rest and something funny was coming along. But it was also highbrow. It was sophisticated. But he wasn't afraid to knock you in the knees to.

Bill Maher
What's a great Preston Sturgis movie? I'll tell you right now. My favorite. The lady Eve. The lady Eve.

Larry Wilmore
Watch the lady Eve because Barbara Stanley. I will. Is irresistible in it, really. Henry Fonda is so great because Henry Fonda is Henry Fonda and Barbara Stanley, an amazing cast. And there's characters in it that are funny.

But their love affair is so great, you know? And it's classic Preston Sturges. It's just this, this, this, that. I'm a little fuzzy. I know.

Bill Maher
Barbara Stanwyck. I used to use her name in a punchline. Yeah. Was she a hottie of her day? Was she a hottie?

Oh, my God. Really? Oh, my God, Bill, watch. The lady Eve is. You'll go.

You're saying I'll get a yes. I mean, century later, boner for Stan, winner later. You have had those century boys straight. I used to do a bit. I love that bit about how I can't masturbate.

And it came from the truth about something that I couldn't actually be doing. Like, if I saw a movie that took place in the middle ages, I couldn't masturbate about the serving wench because I'm not in the middle ages. Even if it was like a James Bond movie, I can kind of. It's hilarious. Transfer.

That are like, oh, okay, I'm not James Bond, but I'm playing the casino. So many. I'm playing the casino. So many rules to your masturbation. Well, there had to be a thread back to reality.

To this day. There has to be a thread back to that could actually happen. Right? It might be a little unlikely, but the middle ages, that's impossible. I agree.

Larry Wilmore
I always say this. This is kind of on the same subject. Like, when people talk about time travel, you could go back to the middle ages or these things. I always feel like people never factor in the smell. They never do.

They never do. The world smelled horrible in the past, Bill, many times. Horrible. They didn't factor. Choose any, period.

It smelled horrible. Seth MacFarlane made a really great movie about that concept called a million ways to die in the west, and that was the same. Oh, it's really good. And it's about that idea that it's easy to romanticize the past, but if you really lived in the west where a splinter could kill you, there was a million ways. So many things that could kill you.

Bill Maher
These kids today, it's a great premise. These kids today. I literally said these kids today. But it's so true. They have no perspective about the time that they live in and how fortunate they actually are in almost every way.

If you measure it now, if you're just feeling angst, okay? But if you actually looked shit up, read Steven Pinker on this. He's the one who, I feel like the covers is the best. And we can measure this shit. We know shit.

For example, it was only 20 years ago where like a billion people shit in the street, in the world, and we've really cut that bill. It doesn't sound automobile was a green alternative to horses. Right? It was a green alternative because of all the shit that was in the streets and the disease and the disease and the flies and all. I don't know if it was a green alternative.

You're right. Or shit must have been a terrible thing. That's why shoeshine boys are so popular back then. Let me get that shit off your shoes. Right.

Wow. Such a big deal. Spats. Remember those spats and all that stuff? That was some shit.

Larry Wilmore
You know, you won't get that stuff on your shoes. Wow. Wow, that's heavy. All I'm saying is the world was stinky, and people should know this. People should know how stinky the world was.

Bill Maher
I say, I don't think I've changed since I was 18 with, like, talking to a funny guy. I love her. It's like, it just never gets old, you know? It's funny. I've been watching.

Larry Wilmore
I agree with you, and thanks again for having me, man. It's so awesome for me, you know? But are you leaving? No, no, no. You were talking about.

No, I'll stay as long as I can. But you were talking about Seinfeld, and I don't like all the. The reevaluation of Jerry, you know? Cause Jerry's a fucking genius. Fucking genius who a lot of comedians owe their careers to.

Somebody like Jerry Seinfeld, he thought of comedy differently than anybody. When we hit, we know how much of a, of a star. He was a star in comedy clubs way before people knew who he was. Rick, I was there at the beginning.

Bill Maher
I had the privilege of being one of the people who, like, you know, saw him every night. Yes. Because that was our life back then. He was a little ahead of me, like, years wise. But, like, I was when I first.

I told this before, but when I auditioned at the comic, I auditioned at, you had to three clubs, catch a rising star. The improv in the comic strip. The person who passed me, you know, the MC, decided you could hang out as it. You can be a neophyte comic. Was Jerry at the comic strip and Larry at the Improv.

Larry Wilmore
So Jerry did a joke back then. Still one of my all time favorite jokes. This is like 1978, where he said, I was just at the Smithsonian and I saw the. Do you know this joke? No.

And I'm doing a terrible joke. They had a Neil Armstrong's toothbrush. I do remember this. And it said, unloan to the Smithsonian. I do remember this.

Like, I'm loan. I'm like, Neil, give them the toothbrush. And I'm like, that is hilarious. I mean, who thinks of that, you know? Neil, give them the toothbrush.

That's one of the best punchlines. Yeah. Oh, no. Because it's not traditional. It's all point of view, you know?

But anyhow, my point was like, I don't like that kind of stuff. But I also love when Jerry said, the thing that makes him the most happy is hanging with another comic and just shooting the shit. And he's right, because there's a bond there. And this is the back to the john and Paul thing. There's a fucking bond there that we love.

It is, you know, of the deconstructing shit. No, the talking shit about stuff, you. Know, I mean, I would. Look, I'm not gonna lie. It is not above in my pantheon, like a beautiful woman.

Bill Maher
Sorry, we're not crazy here, but take that electric element out of it that, you know, this is completely cerebral where the other thing can be cerebral and serves both purposes and also sexy at the same time. North American, South America. I mean, you can't compete with them. Nothing can. There's nothing in the world like a beautiful woman is also very smart.

Right. You know, I mean, but you can't get that every night. So this is just a great. Now this is. Yeah.

It's just I've heard. I think we're thinking of the same interview I think he did with Barry Weiss the other day. Oh, that was brilliant. It was so great. It was brilliant.

Larry Wilmore
And to see Jerry unguarded like that, emotionally, talking about. Yeah, I've never seen him. I was never amazed because he is the. You know, it's him and Leno who did that. Used to do that character.

Bill Maher
Iron J. Yes. You know, and I just. To this day I call him Iron J. Hey, Iron J.

Because he really is iron. That's hilarious. And Jerry's kind of the same way. I mean, they're very bulletproof. So people forget about Jay too, by the way.

Larry Wilmore
That's another one. They've forgotten the brilliance of Jay Leno. I haven't. Yeah. They told me I talk about him too much on this bike.

Bill Maher
Jay. And also, I love him. Jay doesn't get credit. You know me, I give people props. My brother wrote for Jay in his show for a while.

Oh, really? And he had to have a kidney release. And, man, Jay was first to help him out and try to find somebody. Mike Ovitz, too, Caa. You know, he helped my brother out just now.

There's a few people like that who are, like, genuinely. Sean Patrick is another one like that. He's genuinely, like a man of action. And Jay is the same way. He genuinely.

Is that required? No, thanks, Bill. No, I mean, he required nothing. And I'm like, are you kidding me, Jay? I am this forever.

No, they're very superheroish. I don't think they need. I know Jay doesn't need a lot of sleep. And they're just much more about, you know, all that stuff. I mean, I help out where I can, but I'm just not the superhero type, sit around and get stone type.

I can't help that. I ain't managing. But. But Jake gets knocked because, yeah, when he's not hosting a show, he can come in and, you know, just bam, bam, bam. Because he's been doing these jokes in his club, in the club act and be on Letterman and do that.

Larry Wilmore
But when you're hosting a show, Bill, you know how it is. You have to do a show every fucking night. You're not the same. It's not the same as guesting on a show. Absolutely.

And you've curated shit over the past six months and you're coming in and killing it. And there's a very few people who will understand this, having done the show like that. You were one of them on this level. But during the strike of 2007, Jay wrote his own monologue. Yeah, I remember.

Bill Maher
And no one else, none of us. None of other of us could do that. Maybe you could. I don't know. I couldn't.

I'm going to say that right here. Now, I came up with a monologue once a week. It was. But that's not. I mean, I tweak every monologue joke, but writing them, that's not my baby on the show.

I think I'm great at picking the great ones, but they write them the end of the show, that monologue. Well, that's point of view. I mean, that's point of view. I mean, they, of course, are instrumental in how good it comes out, I think, because jokes. But the ideas and the force behind it.

The idea force behind it is usually from me. It's what I want to say about this subject that's one about voice. And I will give them a template of how to do it. And, you know, thank God I have them because it wouldn't nearly be the same.

But only Jay could have written his own fucking whole. Like, it didn't look that different than when he had 20 writers. The volume of jokes, too. Jay didn't just do five jokes in a monologue. The volume.

Larry Wilmore
Nobody did as many jokes in a monologue as Jay. It's crazy how many he did. He went to what he would do, like 15 minutes, like Carson did, four or five. You know, if you go back and look at the car, since his monologue was not very long, six. It was him dancing when the joke fucking bombed and they played t may.

Your mother.

Bill Maher
May a disease yak. Yes, exactly. Yeah, Jay's. He's a workhorse right now. Oh, unbelievable.

Larry Wilmore
Yeah. I mean, so I get a little salty when people have revisionist history about people who we know to be the titans. You know, not just, not, we're not just talking funny. We're talking titans, right. They open the door for all these comics who have an opinion now about who's funny and who's not.

You know, that's, I'm not a high horse about it, but I just like to check that, you know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it's a, but I mean, where the talk world went was the definition of, you know, the Andy Warhol. 15 minutes.

Bill Maher
Yes, everybody. I mean, right now there are probably 50,000 other people doing a podcast. Right. I know, it's so true. It's like if when Johnny Carson was on, he was up against Merv Griffin, Dick Cavett and 4 million other.

Larry Wilmore
I know, it's so true. And they had good shows, too. They do no caveat. And yeah, yeah, they were just different. And they couldn't survive against Johnny, ultimately.

Bill Maher
I never, I was too young to do the Cabot show, but I did Merv Griffin when I started, when he was out here. And he did three shows. Well, his, his late night show that was on in the sixties. I don't remember it then, but I've looked at it now, you know, recently. Merv, it was, was brilliant.

Merv. Yes, was brilliant. I'm telling you. Because his show, he didn't even do a comedy monologue. Wait, was he Merv or Mike Douglas?

Larry Wilmore
Which. 01:00 a.m. i thinking of? They're both corny. No, but I'm telling you, and I hope I'm not messing up.

I'm pretty sure it is Merv, though, where he had a, this was like Richard Pryor cut his teeth on this show, did a lot of these. We all did. I was about to tell you, but. This is before the afternoon show. That's what I'm saying.

Bill Maher
No, it wasn't in the afternoon. Yeah, Merv was never in the afternoon. Taped it in the after. I'm saying. Merv was this very lovely gay gentleman.

Larry Wilmore
Oh, that's good, right? Rick Moranis. That's cool. Let me see the line.

Bill Maher
And he was a sweet guy. And they would tape at 334, 30 and 530. And if you got the 330 shot, it was like all these old ladies, they bust in from Hollywood Boulevard, right? And there I am, 26 year old. Exactly.

He's a funny young guy, right? Bill Maher. He's a get padadata, everybody. Yes. And then you talk to him for a couple of minutes and I mean, it was cutting your teeth, was painful, and you got through it.

And, you know, I remember keeping a log of all the jokes I did on Merv, so I knew what I did on Johnny and all the different shows. Those shows were so innocent. Remember that show? Make me laugh. Of course.

Larry Wilmore
I mean, it was fun seeing all the comics on shows like that, you know, because there weren't as many outlets for that type of thing to see them on that show. The premise of that show, I thought, was always a good premise. There was one show, it's kind of bizarre, though, too. Some of them were so low budget. Evening at the improv, there was one show I did.

Bill Maher
You did that? Oh, yeah, I did all of those. Yeah, yeah, I did. There was one. It might have been make me laugh where they were so cheap.

They cut. You did a set, but they, like, put commercials in between and they wouldn't even, like. They were just three minutes, six minutes. That may have been Norm Crosby's comedy shop. Maybe that's what it was.

So, like, you'd be in the middle of a whole. Yes, exactly. And I tell you something about pirate shit. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

How cheap can you be? We came back, he turned into Steve Bluestar. What happened? Yeah, Steve Bluestine. Those were the shows.

Larry Wilmore
But it was so much fun. What comedy club did you? I started here in the west coast where. But I mainly did. I kind of, you know, I would.

I did the improv. I didn't do the comedy show. I auditioned a couple of times. I just never fit in over there. So I was an improv.

Bill Maher
I didn't fit in at the comedy store. You know, I think she had a type that she liked. It wasn't me. It wasn't me either. Yeah, no.

You know, when you're welcome, you know it immediately, and when you're not. Right, which is fine, you know, I was very welcome at the improv. Me too. Yeah, that felt like home. And I ended up liking that style of comedian that were more the improv than I did at the comedies.

Larry Wilmore
Nothing against those guys. No, because the comedy store, you know what? It had more showy. Yeah. And big names too.

That that would splash in there. I used to sneak into these places, by the way, or sit in the back. And I remember once I did the open mic night, I think. But I was underage. I was like 18 or 19.

This is like 1979 or something like that. And I was in the original room, and this guy goes, excuse me. Walks by me and it's fucking Richard Pryor. And I'm like, oh, shit, wow. Richard Pryor.

And I got to see him to have sat in the belly room, you know, and he's just working on stuff. Not a lot of laughs. Working it out, you know? Right. And I was like, oh, shit.

And then I went from there, and I went into the main room after he was done. And Letterman is emceeing. Wow. Letterman. You know, his.

And I remember Jim J. Bullock. Remember Jim J. Bullock. Of course.

I mean, he would kill in those days. People don't remember him now. Well, he had all these. It was a gay thing, right? Yeah, but it was all that.

Bill Maher
He was on Hollywood Square, Hollywood skirts. And he did too close for comfort, I think was his big thing with what's his name for Mary Tyler Moore show. But he was really hot at that moment. I remember, right. I remember seeing Jim Carrey in there when he was first stepping out.

Larry Wilmore
People like that. Jim Carrey, who would. Sam Kinison, who would do impressions just of the face. Yeah, exactly. He could make his face look like somebody and not have to say a word.

My brother used to. He's a special kind of. My brother did a Milton Burrow face. He would go, he would do something like that. Like, I can't do it.

Bill Maher
No, you can't. But he would just do his face like Milton. Beryl, how do you do that? I don't know. There are certain things people do in show business that just make me go, wow.

I mean, I can't do improv, or I wouldn't want to try. You know, it's funny, I was listening to you talk about Bellzer, and it just made me think because what you were talking about. Well, let me say like this. I went down a rabbit hole to look at the early Saturday Night live again, because I realized I missed a lot of them. Don't know how to rabbit hole.

Larry Wilmore
I go down a lot of rabbit holes. Do you? But I do. I go down a lot of. Well, I love history right now.

I. History. But are you one of those people who like when you're. Yeah, I know. You're gonna even say, no, I.

Bill Maher
Like you're looking at YouTube and then. Tell you what it is. I never. I'll tell you my first one. When I was a kid, I read a book on Houdini, and then I had to read every book on Houdini.

Larry Wilmore
I had to learn everything I knew. Oh, you're that guy. So same. And then it happened with Buster Keaton. I fell in love with Buster Keaton.

Bill Maher
Wow. And a friend of mine had a 16 millimeter projector, and he would screen the movies, all his shorts. And so I got to see Keaton, just have that experience. And so I knew everything you could know about Buster Keaton. Then it was the Marks brothers, and then it was the Beatles.

Larry Wilmore
And the Beatles happened for me after John Lennon died. You feel like any of this found its way into your writing? Well, you know what it is. I like observing. Like, at that time, I was fascinated with what made people big.

I was fascinated with that, you know, and it just fascinated me. I said, why is this a thing? You know, like with the Beatles. I remember I knew who the Beatles were. They were in the background.

But it wasn't like a thing for me growing up, you know, my parents weren't into that either. Right. You know, like, the Atlantic recordings were more like what was in my house. That's the Beatles. Angel passed over the black community.

Bill Maher
Not because of them. No, not because of them. But some songs stood out that I. Remember well, you know, it just wasn't. It just wasn't a thing.

It wasn't the year yet. It just wasn't a thing. It was pre civil. It was pre America as a multicultural society. It wasn't a thing.

So it was still an apartheid society, basically. Yeah. In 1964. Right. So you just didn't.

Black kids just didn't go to Beatles concerts, thought that they could. It just wasn't the thing. It just wasn't. Probably they were seeing it a little corny, right? Completely.

Larry Wilmore
Yeah, absolutely. They weren't James Brown. Right. But although the Beatles always give props to the black artists who inspired them, they always did. And they also had a lot of soul.

Bill Maher
You don't have to be black to have soul. The Beatles prove that in many other groups. I mean, you really got a hold of me was one that they did that was. Yes, they did a really great version of that Smokey rock. And they're on their own shit.

Larry Wilmore
Right. I mean, they have lots of soulful songs. So I remember. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe I'm amazed.

It's like, great song. That's not them, that's Cartney. But, yeah. But anyhow, my brother had. It might have been an eight track, I don't remember, of the Beatles live at the Hollywood Bull.

This is after Lennon died, and I was listening to it, and Bill the screams took me, made me do all this. And I was like, what the fuck? I know. Because it's one thing to have the music playing, but to go back to the experience of them took me. And I was like, what is going on here?

Bill Maher
When they called it beatlemania. They were not exaggerating. Even at eight years old when it happened, I kind of understood. I didn't have anything to compare it to, but I kind of even got it then that there was something going on with this that was outrageous. Well, this goes back to our earlier conversation, because since I have to be the historian, because I went down the rabbit, historians hit at exactly the right time.

Larry Wilmore
Because a lot of these. After the Kennedy assassination. After the Kennedy assassination, because they had the chance to hit before that. As you know, their singles came out here and didn't do anything. It didn't resonate all of 1963.

That's exactly right. All those singles fly, our president gets assassinated. It breaks the heart of the country. Right, right. And they needed some youth.

Bill Maher
Yes. If anything was a transition time for youth in America also. That's the other thing that was going on. And a lot of the folk music, it was coming out in there, but it hadn't really come out in popular music yet. That the revolution that was happening, popular music hadn't done it yet.

Larry Wilmore
You know, folk music had done it, but not popular music. So Dylan was a big thing, but, you know, that was more for older, ahab, college students. Right. So the joy that was in that sing, the joy that was in it, you know, the joy in those harmonies was what connected with people, you know. Yeah, there's amazing energy, right.

Bill Maher
And the love they had for each other translated and all that. And it was new in the hair. But there's somebody who, as you know, people have said this theory before who had a twist on this that will amuse you since you said this. He killed Kennedy. He said, you know, who killed Kennedy?

Oh, yeah. He said, look, who are the most agame. Brian Epstein. That's hilarious. I love that.

Larry Wilmore
By the way, I can slot down any of those fascination theories. That's hilarious. I love it. I can't remember who said that actually makes sense. It makes sense.

Bill Maher
I mean, it's not true, but it makes sense. But yeah, they did benefit from that. And. And also, you know, I want to hold your hand was a catchy record. And like Elvis, it had black roots in that record, too.

All of them. Yes, all of them. That handcuff. Yeah, well, I mean, they might. Chuck Berry was John Lennon's.

He stole come together directly from Chuck Berry. He didn't even change the line. Here come all flat. I mean, Jesus, even Paul said, maybe. You should slow it down, you know?

Yes, they did. I mean, look again, John Lennon on my ultimate, ultimate pantheon. But, you know, Paul McCartney is a musical genius, and nobody is quite on his level. Not quite. And Jon, I'm sure, knew that.

Larry Wilmore
Yeah, he was jealous. He was jealous a little bit. Well, he just couldn't keep up quite in the competition. And that's a good example of, like, you know. And I think as the years went by, like, his genius was in the first half of the Beatles life.

I agree. He was the spirit of the band. He was the leader of the gang that became a band. And it was early rock and roll and their early sound, which was fantastic in its own way. But in the second half, first of all, he was on drugs, and then he was with Yoko, and he was lazy, by his own admission.

Bill Maher
And he's sleeping and Brian and bright.

Larry Wilmore
Like, how many songs where he's given us clues, Bill. And then everything else is gobbledygook. Really gobbledygook. I always say that about there. I don't have time for lyrics.

Bill Maher
No, exactly. It's funny. You couldn't write a real lyric or. Right. He was lazy by his own admission.

And he was kind of over the, like, I conquered the world. What the fuck do you want from me? And I'm looking for something more. It happens to be Yoko ono. No, she's cool.

Okay, so. But in that second half, I mean, Paul, I think, really took over. He did. And even with John's songs like that one, he was kind of important to make it happen. Not that John.

I mean, revolution is. Could be my all time favorite if I had to name one Beatles song, the fast version of revolution. And that's a John Lennon song. And here's the thing to prove your point. It's the b side to hate you.

I always say that it's the b side to hate. That's my theory as to why they hate you bitches. How about that? That's my theory. It's been in the paper.

I've said it before about why they broke up was they prized singles. And John kept getting the b side. Strawberry Fields is the b side of Penny Lane. Lane. There's a number of.

Rain is the b side. Paperback writer of. Paperback writer. Right. And Rain is brilliant, too.

Let it be was the b side. They had, like, let it be the a side. I mean, the a side. And the ballad of John and Yoko. No, no, no.

That was its own single. Oh, that was his own. Okay. And that's another example of how John and Paul. It was still the love affair.

They recorded that in May of 1969 after he got back from his honeymoon and the Johnny. Ok. They're the only ones on the record. John and Paul. Ringo and George were out of the country.

Larry Wilmore
Yeah. Good old fashioned man on man love. Man on man love. And Paul played drums and John played guitar. And, you know, I love that, that song.

It's just John's diary. Like, there's no songwriting at all. But at least, apropos of gobbledygook, the lyrics make sense. It's a story, right? Exactly.

Bill Maher
I think the lyrics are great to that song. Yeah, but gobbledygook I. This. It's funny. I should.

Larry Wilmore
Next thing you know, they're going to crucify me is a great lyric. It is. And they banned. The way things are going. They're gonna crucify.

Bill Maher
They banned it. You know, they couldn't play it. That's because he said, jesus Christ, Christ. You know, it ain't easy. Well, that's him also saying fuck you to all that.

Larry Wilmore
Remember when they wanted to burn the Beatle records because of the Jesus comment? I think John, he doesn't forget. He didn't forget shit, you know? Oh, and I think. I think that's a callback, you know?

Bill Maher
I never heard that, but that's interesting. Yeah, till that, it's like, okay, fuck you, I'm doubling down. You know, that was, like, the first cancellation when he said, we're more popular than Jesus Christ, and then they're on tour, and there's that great tape. We still have it. It's in the anthology of him at a press conference, and you could just tell he's had it up to here with having to explain himself.

Larry Wilmore
I know. I never said we were better or greater than Jesus Christ or a person or a thing or whatever it is. I just said what I said, and it was wrong, or it's been taken wrong, and now it's all this. That's great. Yeah, and it's just like.

And then by the time. That was cancellation. Yeah, by the time. And he still had that attitude when they were announcing apple, like, it's supposed to be this. I love that.

It's supposed to be this happy thing. But John can't take the questions. No. He's got a sour look on his face and he says, starting a company, so someone who just has an idea for a film or a record or a tape or something doesn't have to sit on his knees in someone's office. Probably yours.

Probably yours. How awesome is that? Probably yours. Never breaking. We were just asking you what it does.

Bill Maher
Never breaking character, never smiling, no wink at the end just. And compare that to, like, 1964 landing, the press conference at the airport. Where they're these giddy young kids. Oh, we're in America, and it's great. You all love us and what, you're asking us questions.

Have I haircut? I won yesterday. Can you say, no? We need money first. Yeah, we need money first.

And just a few years later, and it's this sour, stone faced, cynical, like, what the world did to them. I mean, beatlemania, well, that's an example. Of, like, how fame can really fuck you up too. Cause a lot of their experience, and I think Paul talked about this was a hotel. Another hotel, another hotel.

Larry Wilmore
Stage where they were. They didn't even have their own room. Yeah. They couldn't see any of the places they went to, you know. But not your own room.

I know. You're the biggest act in the world. And you have to share a bunk with George. And they would sneak in. Women too.

You know. They would. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They must have. Oh, they absolutely did.

Bill Maher
I hope they did. Oh, yeah, they did. They didn't talk about a lot. Cause John was married. Right, right.

They must have. And in those days, things were kept hush hushmar those days, types of things. But they absolutely did that. I hope so. Yeah.

They certainly have kept that mum then. Yeah. So I'll do my quick Beatle impression for her. So. Because the way I've broken it down is by where it exists in my head.

Larry Wilmore
Okay? So. And these are the young Beatles. So, like Paul, you know, he's up here. He's up here, you know.

You don't. I mean, who knows? You know, he's down there. I mean, who knows? I mean, you know, we might be gone by the time it's there.

I mean, who knows? You know? And then when you get to John, it goes to the nose, you know? Right. It's more like that.

This is John speaking with his voice, you know? You know. And then George used the whole mouth. Well, who knows? I mean, I can play it if you want me to follow it.

I cannot play it. I can do it. But you have to. It's in your mouth when you do judge. And then Ringo goes back to.

Bill Maher
Hello. Hello, lads. This is Ringo's story. You're right. It's all in the heart.

Larry Wilmore
All you have to do is shift the part of your head that the voice belongs in. That is. So you can go from both ring can go. Right? Hello, ladies.

Yeah, so, anyhow, that's my little. You gotta make a thing out of that. I don't know. Yeah, but it's. It's fun.

I love just going down those types of things, but Beatles were different than all those others. Cause there was something about it. What were your other musical icons? Who's on your pantheon? Like, for me, Beatles, of course, are probably at the top.

Beatles became later, like, when I was growing up, there were a couple people. I think the first music that meant something to me was probably Marvin Gaye. I love Marvin Gaye. What's going on? It's the music of my soul, Bill is the best way I could put it.

Bill Maher
You know, if you were gonna ask me, like, who's in my pantheon, I was gonna mention him. It's Myron, Gary's upgrader talk. In fact, apple just did that. And somewhat underrated because completely. He certainly had his hits, heard it through the grapevine and what's going on and.

Larry Wilmore
And he used to perform with other artists like Tammy Terrell and that type. Of thing, too, but, like, to do a song about the ecology. In 1970, Barry Gordy was against it. In the black community. Barry Gordy was against it, I'm sure.

Yeah. He didn't want him to do it because Motown was so clean and anti. No, not in 1970, because supremes had broken through that. Do I have from the Supremes album, the Girl. Awesome.

Bill Maher
When they put out lovechild, that was a groundbreaking record. That's right. Because Barry Gordy always wanted to keep it. Just like, let's not offend the white record. That's exactly right.

Let's just keep it to men and women. That transcends racial lines. That's right. Every girl knows what it's like to be hearing a symphony or stop in the name of. Or stopping in the name of love or, you know, whatever.

You just keep me hanging on. Yeah. That's a great song. Oh, so, so great. But when they met with.

When they. I don't remember how it came about because. But I'm sure it took a lot of lobbying. He put out love child, and it was huge. And then they put out a successor.

Living in shame. Do you remember that one, which was kind of love child part two? You could tell it was like, oh, this is what the kids are into now. Now we're living in shame. Right.

Because we had a love child, but that's where we get the word love child, which they used to call a bastard. Yeah, that's right. Love child. Yeah. That's interesting.

Never meant to be. And Nina Simone, who wasn't on that label, she had her own lane during that time. And had some controversial things that, even for her, were out there, you know? So she was like the leader in doing that type of. Of thing, you know?

Larry Wilmore
What was the Mississippi thing? What was that song? That was one. That was, ooh, man, why? I can't remember the title of the song.

But Marvin Gaye, like, back to your question. Like, he was the one. The other one that. Okay, I was looking at that Apple list. Did you see that?

Of the 100 best albums. No. Okay. They put out a list, and there's some, like, sergeant Pepper's not even on the list, which is ridiculous, but really. Not on the list.

Here's who's not on the list that I could not understand is earth, wind and fire. It's like, how can earth, wind and fire. Earth, wind and fire had a sound all to their own. And they had the one album, the way of the world. That's the way of the world.

There's so many great songs in there, from shining star to reasons to. Oh, shining star. Right. Oh, it was great. It was like, okay, I'll have to give.

And Stevie Wonder, those were my three and the seven. Stevie Wonder, those are my three and the seven. What a composer. I mean, when he was cooking that tenure, I mean, there was nobody writing music like that. Your best.

Bill Maher
And it was. It defied easy categorization. He was an original. It was in every genre. Yeah.

Larry Wilmore
I mean, and it's still. Listen to Bob, Bill. That's the thing about great music. You can go back if you can listen to it and still sounds fresh, as opposed to. Oh, yeah, that's what they listen to then, you know.

But if it still sounds. Oh, shit, this is good. I mean, all of love is fair. Yeah. Streisand did it and did it great, of course.

Bill Maher
But either version, it's like. I mean, that kind of songs. That's good stuff is good stuff. S cars and that's good stuff. That is good stuff.

Now a word from Alpo. Exactly. The Alpo. That's right. All right, well, I probably should do my.

Do you have anything to plug? Do you have a new show? You always have a show. I have a show called reasonable doubt. I'm producing with Carrie.

I'm Hulu. I'm Hulu. Carrie and I are the exact producers of it. It was something that was loosely based on Sean Holly, who was actually part of the OJ trial. She's a great lawyer here in Los Angeles, and it's loosely based on Unchum.

Larry Wilmore
And we're in our second season. We just finished shooting it. And it premieres, second season premieres in August. And it's really a fun show. Rahman Mohammed, I have to give her props.

She's our showrunner. She's, she's so good. She's just so good. And it's just a great cast too. And so when you say executive producer, so you're kind of like Godfather.

Exactly. And I love doing that type of thing, especially, you know. Oh, I'll bet it was not the heavy lifting, but. No, you earned it. Yeah, it's a heavy overseeing.

Bill Maher
You earned it. I knew I'd be an overseer at some point, though. See, you get that. Thank you very much, folks. If I can be an overseer, another.

Thing you can say and I can't. Very good. Who says there's no reparation? Exactly. I'm an overseer.

Larry Wilmore
Thank you very much. Thanks, universe, you did it right. Universe, you did it right. Club random and then appreciate, well, they could be just up here.

Larry Wilmore | Club Random with Bill Maher

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