MATPAT Talks About Retirement

Jacksepticeye
Brain league. Matt, thanks so much for coming on today. I'm super pumped. No, thanks for having me, guys. I'm actually incredibly excited and a little bit nervous.

MatPat
I've been nervous. I've always wanted to be able to collabs with you guys, and with my former schedule, it was almost impossible to do that. And so I'm excited to just get down on the couch and just hang out for a little bit. It's really nice. I think about that, too.

Jacksepticeye
And then I'm like, what are MatPat and I going to do? Our formats are wildly different, and I'm like, I don't know what, what we do together, so I just never reached out. So that's on me. Oh, no, it's. It's fine, though.

MatPat
The world's our oyster. We could have done anything. I mean, we still can do anything. Yeah, but time is over now. The world is over.

Jacksepticeye
Time has ended. You're gone. You say that I have cooler opportunities for collabs now than I did before. Like, you know, if we had had this a month ago, I would have asked you to walk in my fashion show. That's coming up soon.

If you're not on YouTube regularly, do you even exist? Does it matter? That's deep. That's deep. I think you exist more actually as a human being.

MatPat
You might not exist as prevalent out in the public eye, but I feel like I exist more now as a human being than I did for years. That's good. I'm glad. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. That's called being present.

Yeah. Holding yourself accountable. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's like, oh, hey, instead of grinding it away at the computer and worrying about the countdown of scripts or episodes that need to get recorded or uploads and watching view counts and optimization and this and that, it's like, hey, you know, I'm helping the team. I'm present with everyone here, but then I'm going off and I'm climbing a rock wall at the rock gym.

Or I'm like, hey, I'm learning how to ice skate now because I have a little bit more predictable of a schedule and I can get ownership over my life again. And that's pretty awesome. I like that. Ice skating is the go to. Is that something you wanted to do for a long time and just never did?

You know, it's one of those things that I did a little bit as a kid because I grew up in Ohio, and so in Ohio it's cold and you throw on some ice skates and you go around the rink a little bit, and it was fun. And I kind of capped out at, like, okay, now I need to figure out how to skate backwards efficiently, and I haven't picked it up in years, right? It's maybe like, once a year when you're at, like, an event or something like that, like, around Christmas time. And this year, my son Ali, he's five, and he turned old enough to start experimenting with a lot of activities, right? He's old enough to have opinions, and he's capable enough to really hop into a lot of different things.

And so this year has been a lot of throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks with him and what he really responds to. And so we threw rock climbing at him, and he loved rock climbing, which is great. Cause I love rock climbing, too, so it gave me a good excuse. And then we're like, you know what? Let's try ice skating.

Like, let's see. You know, it's learning balance, slipping and sliding, things like that. And he, like, if it. If it has the opportunity for him to go fast and, you know, endure some large scale bodily harm or, like, run the risk of large bodily harm, he is all about it. So it's like, climb a rock wall and jump off of it.

Great. Awesome. Skate really fast on ice and slide around. Great. And so he's been really into it, and so he's been taking lessons, and then we've been doing free skates every weekend.

And so Steph and I have just been, like, passively learning from watching his lessons. And then, you know, for an hour on Saturdays, we kind of skate around. And at this point, it's kind of an informal meet and greet around here where people kind of know that I show up there on, like, Saturday or Sunday, and we have kind of, like, meet and greets on the ice sometime. That's sweet. Yeah, it's cool.

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Jacksepticeye
He's sentient. He's even real. 25 now. Start paying attention to him now. Yeah, now we need to know his political opinions.

Ethan Nestor
We need to know where he sits. We need to know who he's voting for. Yeah, he has to be locked into all of that right now. We just gotta, like, funnel everything into him. Yeah.

MatPat
You know, on one hand, there's definite steps in the development process where you're like, oh, wow, that was a huge leap. And now you've unlocked all these opportunities for us to do together. Like, we just started being able to play Mario Kart together, and it's super cool to be able to, like, play Mario Kart with your kid. And it is fascinating to learn how much Mario Kart helps you along as a new player and how much you have to tank your performance to lose in Mario Kart? Yeah.

Yeah. Because for all you know, because of the rubber banding AI, we want Ollie to have some level of success. You know, get a good place finish and this and that. And so if we're trying to play with him, you know, we're pretty good at Mario Kart, and he's not as good at Mario Kart. And so I literally have a rule where I'm not allowed to start racing until, like, the first lap and a half are done.

And so, you know, he'll be like, how do I press the button to start? And he'll be like, okay, ready, go. And then he, like, blasts off, and then I'll hit break and go backwards for, like, the first, like, 30 seconds of the race. I'll scoot around collecting coins for a little bit, and then I start racing, seriously, at a lap and a half. And then that helps prevent the AI.

Cause the AI wants to focus on me, right? It's like, oh, you have a real bad player back here. Like, this guy sucks at Mario Kart. Like, we can't have this guy hanging out in 12th place. So you got, like, squidling kid hanging out with me in, like, the back eleven, and we're just kind of dancing around each other.

And then. And then my goal is to get second place in every. In every race. And then if Steph and I, we try to get one, two, three. So that way, Ollie gets, like, first.

Every once in a while, we'll pop in to be, like, first. But, you know, so that way he doesn't get too big of a head, but it gets him like, that. Like, yeah, I'm really. And so now he's like, I'm awesome at Mario Kart. And if someone else plays with him, we kind of, like, pull him aside beforehand.

Like anyone on the team, or, like, if anyone's hanging out with us, we're like, hey, just so you know, this is kind of how you have to play the game. And, like, don't. Don't go too hard, because he'll say he's really good at Mario Kart, but not really. So there's been a lot of that lately. That's.

That's me. My new goal is to come in second place in everything I play. What are you, some kind of good dad or something? God, I try. There's no such thing as a good dad.

I feel like, you know, you constantly feel guilt ridden and awful about every decision that you've made, and it's like, no, I'm never gonna be. Isn't that just what life is? I don't have a child, and that's how I feel. I can't make my own decisions. Well.

Well, let me tell you, having a kid just makes it that much worse. Cause you're like, oh, man. This kid's a reflection of the stuff that we're pouring into him. And it's like, no, what have I done? Yeah, see, I think of having as my.

Jacksepticeye
There's gonna be a crude analogy. I think of having a kid as having, like, a dog that grows up and can vote. So it has, like, impact in society. So if I fuck it up, it's my fault? Sure.

MatPat
Yeah. And everyone blames me, and then they go to therapy and they blame me, and it's what I've been doing, so why wouldn't they do it? That's amazing. No, the idea of a dog voting is also great. Like, I feel like that they should be able to.

They should. Yeah. I mean, about as informed as most of us. Anyway, so there you go. Yep.

Ethan Nestor
My brother just had his first kid this past year, and I've been so excited to be an uncle. But I also realized when he was born, I was like, wow, I have no idea. Like, when babies start doing certain things, like, I don't know when those check marks are. Like, he just turned six months old, and I was like, so she, like, walking. Yeah.

MatPat
Or talking. Like, I don't know when these things happen because I'm never around babies. It's very funny. I'm around one every week. Yeah.

No, I mean, but you're totally right. Like, so Steph and I both are only children, and so we didn't grow up with, like, brothers and sisters who either grew up alongside us or family members who had kids before us. Right. There's no. There's really no aunts and uncles or anything like that.

It's all our employees are our family. And so, like, Ali will go down to the basement and be like, hey, team. You know? And the team are his buddies. And he'll be like, hey, team, do you mind if I eat goldfish in front of you?

And they're like, no, it's fine. So he treats them like a little family. But to your point, ethan, it's one of those things where, yeah, you have, like, really no clue unless you've actively, like, gone through it. And I think one of the things that Steph and I have been really surprised by is how early so much of that stuff happens and how early they get a personality and how early they get opinions about things and how quickly they adopt things. Like, Ali's going to kindergarten now, and he comes back with, hey, let's play basketball.

And we're like, really? Oh, okay. And he starts dribbling the ball, and you're like, whoa, you're good at this. And we've maybe, like, touched a ball one time, basketball one time, or whatever. And he's like, oh, I just learned from my friends at school.

And you're like, oh, okay, cool. Or, you know, he went to the school library and brought back, like, a book on the Philadelphia Eagles. And we're like, that's an odd choice, but. And he's like, oh, my friends really like that team. And so I want to learn about the team.

Jacksepticeye
And we're like, okay, here comes a teaching point, son. Right? You're not gonna like your friends team, and you're gonna hate each other. I'm sorry. Hate to tell you no, but it's very clear that he picked it just because he thought it would be cool with his friends, because it's a book full of stats and figures, and it's like the friends thought, like, this team is cool, and you got it.

MatPat
And I get that. Right. But it's so fascinating to watch that evolution happen and that growth just appear out of nowhere and, you know, and where they get this stuff. Like, for instance, like, ali's big passion is mech suits, robots, and, like, engineering and building stuff. And for, as he's going to be all right.

Yeah, no, like, peak. You know, one of the things that we do on weekends is, like, draw imaginary, like, mechs. And it's like, it's got saw blades for arms and spikes coming out of its shoulders, and it. And it's in super metal, but he wants everything to be, like, covered in rainbows and, you know, gold teeth, and he's into, like, no, it's. Right.

It's a very blingy mech suit. It's incredible. It's simultaneously deadly and beautiful. But it's one of those things where Steph and I, for as many interests and passions and things as we have and as many things as we study all the time, like, we were not engineering people. We're not, like, we like math and we like science, but how things work and how they get manipulated and how to build things and engines and stuff like that, sports cars were never things that we were interested in.

And he just kind of, like, that was his natural inclination, and he just went with it. And so we've been having to kind of, like, so what is the carburetor and what does it do? Or, like, what does a v six engine mean? And how is that different from, you know. And it's, it's been really educational for us.

The ice skating is another thing where it's like, it's given us a chance to and an excuse to learn a lot of new things, which is really, really cool. That's so nice. Darn it. I've become that guy who talks about his kid all the time. Please, let's talk about games, online, media.

Jacksepticeye
Your whole life revolves around your kid. Yeah, it's a lot. Take it from a guy whose dad didn't, his life didn't revolve around his kids. I appreciate people who talk about their kids a lot. You have a vested interest.

You care. You're gonna be there for his life and his big moments. So it's kinda cool. I'm so excited for my nephew to have interests. I went to visit him and there was a Lego store in the airport, and again, he six months, so he's not real yet.

Ethan Nestor
But I'm like, oh, I can't wait to be the uncle that comes to visit and comes with a new Lego set, or, I'm so excited to see what his first big interest is. I'm gonna say it's gonna be dinosaurs because my brother was a big guy. Dinosaur guy, so not a shocker. I'm banking on, banking on dinosaurs. Did you have a favorite dinosaur when you were growing up?

I really liked velociraptors a lot. I was less into dinosaurs and I was more into horses. Oh, cool. Horses and dogs. There's probably a connection there.

Jacksepticeye
Dinosaurs, horses. Trace it back. Right. Brain leak. I've been trying to get my adhd medication for a very long time and for some reason, the doctor's office is just such a pain to deal with.

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MatPat
There's a good family video that we. Have of me on. I don't know what birthday it was, but it's me opening up every present. And every present wasn't a dog. And so I cried every time I opened a present because I was like, I want a dog so bad.

Ethan Nestor
Every present wasn't a dog so I just cried. Oh man, that's great, right? Good. It's good to hear that too, because again, it's one of those things that you don't realize what you don't know until you have the kid. And each kid is completely different.

MatPat
But for the first two, three years of Ali's life, he hated Christmas. And what we learned later was it was the excitement and the energy and the noise. He's very sensitive to noise, right? All the, like, you know, jingles and songs playing and even, like, the crunch of the wrapping paper and stuff like that was. Was overwhelming to him, especially when he was younger.

And we're like. And so every Christmas was, like, kind of an ordeal. And we're like, what's wrong? Like, oh, it's Christmas. And we're like, oh, this sucks, man.

Like, you're so looking forward to, like, that Christmas with your kid and this and that, and it's like, oh, this is tough. And exactly to your point, it's one of those. It could be anything from, like, hey, this was not the present that I was looking for. Or like, oh, this. You know, kids get in their heads, like, everything has to be perfect.

Like, that's another thing where, like, Ollie's. He got. He's. He is, like, the epitome of Steph and I. So he's, like, type triple a where it's like, everything has to be perfect all the time.

And so if we, you know, do it the wrong way or if he's not prepared to show off a thing and we see it early, or if it doesn't go quite the way he expected, like, it's a big ordeal. And it's like, hey, you know, learning how to behave and be okay if things don't go right or kind of, like, go with the flow and stuff. Like, that's a big part of it. But it's all stuff that you have to learn, and it's a learning. And again, it's a learning process for them, and it's a learning process for you.

Jacksepticeye
Yeah, I think I was kind of like that as a kid because I had two brothers and two sisters. So I grew up in a pretty big family. And then it was a lot of, like, nobody really taught me to do anything. So I was kind of, like, looking at everybody and learning how to do everything myself. And then it was that reveal moment, being like, look, I can do this thing.

I learned how to swim by watching everybody else. I learned how to run and jump and all these kinds of things. But if they saw it too early, I'm like, no, I'm in my prep phase. Batman fighting Superman. I'm prepping.

I'm not ready yet. Look away. Right? Still gotta work on your kryptonite gas. Or if somebody, like, threw big emotions at me or something, like.

Like the Christmas thing. If something big happened all at once, I would kind of, like, break down and cry and kind of, like, revert into myself. And I was like, I don't know how to deal with anything. Yeah, no, the birthday song is actually Ali's least favorite song. Like, we like, on his birthday, we actually asked him, like, hey, do you want us?

MatPat
We've, again, over multiple years of learning, it's like, hey, when this song is sung, you get upset. And so because all the attention's on him, he feels like there's a lot of pressure around the cake and this and that. It's like, hey, do you want people to gather around you and for you to blow out your candles in front of everyone? And usually it's no. And then it's like, hey, do you want us to sing that?

You know, do you want mommy and daddy to sing you the birthday song? And it's like, no. Last year we sang him a snippet of the Pokemon theme song. Cause that was his. That was his.

Jacksepticeye
We got to make requests. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's birthday, you know, positive. Parenting 24 I get, and I could have picked any song. Can you guys sing my way by Frank Sinatra while I blow out the candles?

MatPat
You know what? Let's do it next birthday. I'm there. Yeah. Thank you, Ollie.

Jacksepticeye
Alternate what birthday song sucks. Everyone's off key. No one knows the tempo. Other people are over there washing their hands. Cause they heard you're supposed to, like, wash your hands and sing happy birthday twice.

And they don't know what's going on. Cause that's the length of the time you're supposed to wash your hands. So they're over washing their hands. People are singing happy birthday and they're like, what's going on? I'm crying.

MatPat
Oh, man. A happy birthday to us all. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, you.

You say the word and I will be there in a heartbeat. And I will sing my way. I will sing never gonna give you up. I will sing numa numa. Like, whatever.

Whatever you want, man. It's gonna think about a good song for my birthday. You're the birthday boy. Yeah. You do what you want.

Jacksepticeye
You only get one day a year. Mm hmm. You gotta make it yours. Did you guys have themed birthdays when you were growing up? If the theme was sadness.

Wow, this is dark. My birthdays were great, but I didn't have. I never had themes. No, you weren't like, oh, I want a pokemon theme or whatever. I know one of mine was like, I had a bowling theme one year because, again, I grew up in the midwest, and bowling is a national sport in the midwest.

MatPat
So if you're getting less than eight pins on any given frame, you're like the black sheep of the family. You're disowned. Bowling and jenga. There was one year that we did a science theme, and then I think the strangest but also most memorable to me was we did this one year where I invited a small group of my friends to this mystery dinner theater in Cleveland. Cleveland, Ohio.

And it was kind of like a dinner. It was like a dinner theater show, but it was a mystery, and you were a part of it, kind of, like, among us or something. And you're going around and role playing, and then by the end, you have to figure out who done it. It was awesome. It was so cool.

Jacksepticeye
They're rules. Your birthday parties were way cooler than my birthday parties. Sorry. The only theme I remember is one year I invited all my friends. My aunt was like, I want.

Ethan Nestor
I think it was my 10th birthday, and she was like, I want to throw you, like, a really great birthday party. What do you want to do? And I was like, I want to go go karting. And there was a go kart place in the next town over. And so she was like, all right, I'm going to book you an hour at the go kart place.

MatPat
You can bring all your friends. So I invited all my friends, and the day came, and only one person showed up. No. To this day, he's, like, still, like, my closest friend. He was the only one that showed up.

Ethan Nestor
And at first I was sad, but then I was like, oh, it's just gonna be me and him on the track alone for an hour, and it was awesome. Yeah. Inviting a lot of people to your birthday party sucks. Cause it's just a bunch of people you don't wanna be around. All you wanna do is get toys and peace out.

Jacksepticeye
And that's it. Well, right. That's all I wanted to do. It's a give and take, right? It's like, the more people you invite, the more presents you get.

MatPat
But also the more people you invite, the more you have to hang out with them. So, yeah, then it's not about me. It's not my birthday anymore. It's everybody. It's like a wedding.

Jacksepticeye
It's like, you throw a massive wedding for all your family and relatives and everything, and then it's like, who's this for anymore? Is it for them to all hang around and eat? Oh, right. Like, I think that's one of the things that you realize as you get older is like, the more and more, like, social events and parties and things that you go to. It's like, no, they're not for you to have fun.

MatPat
They're for everyone else to have fun or celebrate or whatever you call out. Wedding. Oh, my gosh. Wedding. Like, Stephanie, our planning our wedding got to be so infuriating at a certain point that steph and I almost just were like, we're calling off.

We're just going to elope. You know, like, forget this. Like, we're just going to do it because. Because exactly to your point, like, we go in with this mentality of like, hey, this is our big day. This is celebration of our relationship.

Like, we want this to be purely us. And then all of a sudden, you have parents who are coming in and being like, well, make sure there's enough space in the invite list for ex work friend. And we're like, who's that guy? Like, we've never met that guy. You know, oh, but he's big at my company.

Or like, oh, this person who's worked at my, you know, it's like, we have no connection to those people. Why would we invite people that we've never met to our events? And eventually we found a compromise, and we did make it, like, purely ourselves, and it turned out great. But it was one of those things that there was definitely that moment where, like, we're not planning your party. We're planning a party for us.

We're not. This isn't, like, some, some company networking event for you guys. Yeah, my brother and my sister in law did it in such a good way where they eloped, and then they were like, we have family all over the place. If we do a wedding, one, it's going to be a kajillion dollars, but two, like, so much family would have to come from everywhere. So they were like, we're going to elope our family.

Ethan Nestor
Your job is to. We will visit you guys. The next time we visit you. You throw us a party for our marriage so you can invite whoever. And so they went back home to Maine, where I grew up, and my mom threw a big party for them, and they didn't have to worry about anything.

And it was a bunch of family. But also, you were just saying a bunch of random people that they kind of knew. And I was like, oh, that's the. Way to do it. Get somebody else to just throw a party for you every time you go and visit them for your wedding for the next year or whatever.

MatPat
That's a smart way of doing it. I like that. And also, it puts pressure off for you. It means you get to have multiple parties. That's a cool one.

I think in general, with the Internet and with YouTube and Instagram and just even back in the days of blog posts and stuff, you're seeing the breakdown of a lot of those sorts of institutions or those sorts of traditions that kind of sucked, and everyone was kind of aware that they sucked, but you kind of had to do them because they were expected of you. And bit by bit, people are able to be a little bit more open and a little bit more honest about, like, hey, that was kind of disappointing. This whole thing kind of sucks. Like, there's probably a better way to do it. And historically speaking, you know, you wouldn't be able to do that because if you did, you would offend everyone.

But as, like, as a society, as we kind of have these conversations and reassess what's good, what's bad, what. What do you want to keep? What don't you. It's starting to give you that permission of, like, hey, maybe it's. Maybe we should, like, do, you know, throw me a party or, like, maybe we should rethink how weddings are structured and things like that.

It's cool. It's one of the benefits of the Internet brain link. I don't know about you guys, but I am a hot, hot sleeper. I wake up sometimes drenched in sweat, and it's not comfortable at all. I don't know what's happening in my dreams, but I'm just sweating.

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MatPat
Whoa. And you'll get three free towels and save an extra 20%. That's 60% potentially. And three free towels. That's sweet.

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Jacksepticeye
Wow, man. What is. I was just thinking, I was like, we have Matpat on the podcast, and he. We should just ask him fun questions. Sure.

MatPat
No, please. I also love that because it's you, Matt. We never did an intro because you absolutely don't need an introduction. I love how we just. We just went in talking.

This is great. Oh, wait, have we been on the podcast this entire time? Damn it. I guess. Yeah, I guess so.

Was the collapse. Sorry. Everyone knows now, man. Oh, that was all my private conversation. Okay.

Yeah. So, hi, I'm Matt. Pat. I retired recently, but I'm still doing. Famous retiree.

Yeah. He's trying. This is an intervention for me and Ethan to figure out why we're still here and why we're doing it. I'm curious because there's been a lot of talk about other people and, like, even call me Kevin. Irish youtuber friend of mine.

Yep. He made a video where he's stepping back and everything. And I've been thinking about it a lot, and I'm wondering why everybody at the same time is sort of feeling the same thing. And I wonder if it even is the same thing, because when I talked about it, I was like, this is my experience. And I don't want to say, like, oh, gaming's not what it used to be, or the algorithm's tougher than it's ever been, or things are too idea driven.

Jacksepticeye
More so than just naturalistic. Yep. I'm like, I don't know if that's just me or if it's the whole platform as a whole and you've been doing not just uploading. You've done like, analytic work with other people and helped out behind the scenes. So I'm curious what your take on it all is.

MatPat
Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's all those things and more. Right. Like, you are right, you are right, you are right. And then, plus, I mean, so me personally is a separate issue.

But if we're just talking about YouTube as a platform, right. The algorithm is harder now than it's ever been. It is harder now to be especially a mid tier creator than it's ever been. But a creator across the board. Right.

Because shorts is taking up more screen real estate. And so it's harder to be consistent with your uploads in terms, like, get consistent performance in your uploads. Like, it's much more trends based than it was before. So there's a much stronger shift in the rise and fall of channels are kind of like, this was a good performer, this was a bad performer. So if you're not in the moment, performance is going to be harder.

It's a lot less. And as a result of all of that, it's a lot less creator driven and channel driven. Really. YouTube has been scared of TikTok for a while. TikTok came in, did much more damage to the demographics that were watching YouTube than they expected.

And now it's been a lot of let's clamber back and try to claw back some of that audience. As a result, there's been a lot of cribs, notes on TikTok algorithm and applying it to YouTube. The memory on YouTube is a lot shorter in terms of, hey, you search for a thing or you watch this video, let's give you more of that stuff. They're also trying to encourage you to watch more very small channels, like micro channels with ten hundred views here and there. So right now, YouTube as a system and the recommendation algorithm is servant to like five separate masters.

And that's really hard to juggle. It makes it really hard to create consistent programming around all of that. That's issue one. Issue two is exactly what you said, which is, you know, hey, it is much more idea driven than organic. Right?

Long gone. It's very much the big spectacle piece. What is the, you know, what's, what's the hook? What's the thesis? How's the thumbnail play into like, it is much more corporatized.

And from the get go, you have to think through all steps in that process. And does your thumbnail match the opening seconds of your video? You know, is the thesis immediately prevalent there. And then how's that trickle down? You are seeing a little bit of a reassessment of that as.

And like the pendulum is swinging back a little bit. I think Ryan Trahan is a really good channel to watch where he takes that idea driven content, but brings the production level back down to kind of like an authentic, attainable way where it feels much more of a conversation, but it is still very like joke, joke, joke, bit, bit funny, funny. Like you're. It has to be much more jam packed in order to retain that retention time, draw people through it, get satisfaction, all that stuff. So it's all.

So there's a lot of platform stuff, but there's also, I mean, I just, you know, I had a kid and he's turning five, he's turning six, you know, and that, and that changes your priorities in a lot of ways. You know, how long have you been doing it for at this point? It's. Yeah, I've been doing eleven years. Right, exactly right.

So this is the time where doing something for ten years, that's a lot. That is a long time, right. And you know, especially when you look at the job market nowadays, a lot of people in, unless you're working at your job and you're a lifer, right. In general, you tend to see people pivoting their jobs every two to three years roughly as they kind of move between jobs. Or kind of like everyone watching this.

Jacksepticeye
Podcast is like, was I supposed to be doing that shit? Yeah, no, it's, what you've seen is with the gig economy, with the shifting of the economic climate, this and that, you see people kind of jumping between jobs on a faster basis than you used to before, but on YouTube, yeah, you've been doing it for 1011 years. I've been doing it for 13 years. And it's one of those things that we are finally in a generation where the platform is old enough and it's been established enough for long enough that people have been doing it for a long, they've been grinding away weekly videos multiple times a week. You know, even if you're doing a monthly video, like, it's a lot of work to do and a lot of balls to juggle and it encompasses a lot.

MatPat
It hangs in your head all the time. And on a plus side, a lot of those people have the ability to retire. They have the financial means to retire, or they've set aside other businesses, they've launched other things, or it's just time to do something else and take that experience and pivot somewhere else. And so not only is it like, wow, I'm tired, but it's also like, why am I still doing this if I don't have to do this? Do I still have more that I'm looking to get out of this, or am I just on this treadmill?

Because momentum is a heck of a thing and inertia is tough to break. And I think that's a big part of it, too. It's, you know, there's that idea of, like, I've worked this long to build up this thing and to walk away from it, to close it down, whatever. That's, I think there a lot of people may be associated with being, like, a failure in some way or like, oh, then what did I do it for? And it's like, well, it's everything that you've done up to this point, like that, that is the culmination of, and that's great, but at a certain point, you kind of have to decide what the end of your story looks like and where you want it to end and kind of what's next.

And it's hard to kind of do that assessment. But, you know, we were in a fortunate position where we're in a, where we're in a place where I can step away and the channel can continue in whatever capacity it does. But things like that. But, yeah, so there's all sorts of factors all coming together all at the same time that's making all of these conversations happen for sure. Going off of what you were just talking about in your video, you talked about how you've been doing YouTube for a third of your life.

Ethan Nestor
And, Sean, that was pretty much the same for you. Yeah, exactly a third. I'm 27. I started YouTube when I was 15. I've always thought of YouTube as less of a job and more of a lifestyle, in a sense.

When you stopped, did you? Because I'm also having the thoughts because it's been forever of like, oh, when am I going to stop? Has it been a weird transition from you coming off of the. Off of the channel and going into retirement as far as identity goes? Because I was talking to my therapist about that and I was like, I don't, when I stop YouTube, I don't know if I'll, like, know who I am anymore because this is so much of me.

And I wonder what your experience a is with that. No, that makes a lot of sense, and I've actually heard that from a lot of people who've talked to me in the aftermath of both the initial announcement video as well as kind of like the final episodes that I did. I mean, that whole. The whole ten week countdown to me leaving was. And even before that, it's been basically a year long grieving process.

MatPat
We've called the business and the YouTube channels and this and that. Like. Like my first kid, technically second, because we got. We got skip my cat around the same time. So, like.

But those are. Those were like the first children, right? And they take that much time and that much care and that much attention. And in a lot of ways, this transition for us has been like sending them away to college, where it's like, hey, you're grown up. You got to have the life of your own, and you're going to live on and you're going to make mistakes and things are going to be good and things are going to be bad, and we're going to watch you from afar and celebrate your victories and be bummed out by the losses or whatever.

But it's like, hey, good for you. Like, it's cool to have created something that can live on. It's. It's parenthood again, only in a business standpoint. Wait, so if you're able to get other people to take it over and that means you're sending them off to college, does that mean when we quit, we just kill our kid?

Jacksepticeye
Is the kid just dead, Matt? No. Where does the kid go if there's no one to take it over? Jack's. But I see, too.

Oh, no. Existential.

MatPat
No, I think for you it's. I think for you guys, it's different, right? It's a memoir of your work and it's a memoir of your life, right? I think, like, for me, it's a. It's a kid that is.

And it's a business. Right? Like, I think. I think, Ethan, you and I, like, we run different YouTube channels. We have a format driven YouTube channel that has personality elements to it.

You run a personality channel. And so this is in the truest sense of what YouTube was born in. A journal, a diary, a personal assessment and projection of who you are in this moment and your growth and evolution as a creator. And that's beautiful. And game theory is that, too, for me.

But also there's a format underlying it that allows it to kind of carry on in a business, a pretty substantial business at this point underneath it, that continues forward in a business that's like, hey, if I can be less involved in that, that would be fantastic. I do not want to be a business person. But, you know, it's just exhausting all the time. So you're not killing any kids. Don't worry.

I think you're all good. If anything, you're just writing your closing chapters. But again, to that grieving process, it's literally, it was a year and especially, like, six months of unwinding myself from so many processes that I've been a part of. It's like, oh, that is the last time that I'm standing in front of that green screen doing a short, or like, oh, that is the last time that I'm sitting down polishing a script. Or that's the last time I'm standing in the recording booth and saying, you know, buddy, that's just a theory.

And. And some were better than others. Like, saying goodbye to shorts. I'm like, woohoo, that was fun. Saying goodbye.

Saying goodbye to, you know, the catchphrase in the recording booth. That was emotional and I, and I, you know, I cry a lot. I'm very. I'm very emotional. And so, like, there was, there was a lot of tears shed throughout that process and a lot of, like, coping with it and sitting there and kind of processing your evolving relationship with that space, with those spaces, with those people, things like that.

So there is, it is, and it's a step by step process and it was really a step by step process. And the ten week countdown was me getting to celebrate and reflect and have those moments of like, hey, look at how far I've been able to come and look at. Look at that journey that we've collectively been on together as a community. So that way I felt good about those notes and got closure on a lot of the things that were kind of lingering and stuff like that. So it was good for me, it was good for the audience.

And you do kind of, like, come back down and it's kind of like that gradual stepping down process back into normal human being to the identity issue. It's interesting because it never leaves you. You know, it's. It's always there, right? Like, I brought up at the very beginning of this thing where it's like, I still get stopped on the ice, at the ice ring.

I get stopped all the time. Like, it's. It's pretty constant. And it's one of those things where, like, game. The, you know, game theory doesn't leave in the conversations that you have, like, around it and like, oh, you were still my childhood and this and that and you, the memories still exist and they've still influenced you, so it doesn't leave.

It's just that your relationship changes with it and you move forward and you, and you grow on. But at the same time, too, I'm the type of person who has always had a fairly decent, coarse sense of self, right? I've always kind of. I'm a nerd. I'm pretty proud of being a nerd.

I am definitely lame. Don't have many friends. Made birthday party invites very easy. Meant I got a high quality, quality over quantity when it came to the. The presents.

I was the kid who was in college dancing at the bus stop with the bright green jacket and the purple tie with white polka dots and didn't care what people thought of me. This has been a part of me and a part of my journey and a creative thing that I've done. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm still creative, that I'm still a nerd, that I'm still intellectually curious. And what it does is it affords me the chance now to continue growing and continue to change and continue to learn. And who knows?

At some point that might come back in the form of something else. I still have this passion for teaching and exposing people to the cool bits and pieces of the world, and YouTube's a great platform for doing that. And I just need to figure out, does it make like, do I want to hop back into that sort of thing, or are there other ways to do that? Or, you know, am I. Am I going to relax and be a big bum and catch up on, like, the year's worth of games that I've never got to play?

Like, we'll see, but I don't know. I haven't seen myself bored in a long time, and I still am not there yet, but I'm excited to see what. What I become when I'm bored for a little bit and what ideas generate when I'm not just in the weeds of it every single day? Yeah, I think that's where I'm sort of at right now, because I said to people that I have, like, two years max left in me doing it the way I'm doing it. Because I, for me, it's like, when you start doing it, it's like, oh, this thing is successful.

Jacksepticeye
It's super cool. It's the best thing I've ever done in my life. I'm gonna clutch my pearls so close and run with it as hard as I can and do and work so hard with it. And there's like, there was almost like an art form to making the videos back then and the way they were. And I feel like that sort of, like, artistry in it is sort of gone, for lack of a better word.

Like you were saying, a lot of YouTube feels sort of homogenous now. It feels like everything is sort of being boiled down to the same sorts of templates and you kind of see the same stuff everywhere. And it's interesting that you said about mid tier creators because I didn't think about that. I kept seeing, like, smaller creators and I'm like, well, it's still good that people are still able to make a living out of it, but it's like you're here or you're here. There's.

That was kind of it. Yeah. And for me, I'm also like that I want to. I want to, like, get back into something that, like, challenges me and grows me and helps me learn. And I feel like the way I'm doing YouTube videos, it's like, it's so easy to sit down and record a let's play that.

I'm like, I'm not challenged by that and I could change it, but it's like I kind of want to do something else. I want to, like, see if I can write stuff. I want to see if I can make narrative driven content. I want to see if I can, like, create characters that go further, all these different types of things, like, even draw. I've been, like, painting miniatures.

I'm like, that's a fun process to learn. I've never been artistic in my life beyond, like, creating content in a way. So I'm like, like you said, it's good to, like, you need to let your brain settle, let the silt sort of go down, and then it's like, okay, what ideas float to the surface again? Because otherwise you can't. Otherwise it's just, it's rapids.

There's no settling to the water at all. By the way, you're new here. I like analogies, so that's my thing. You're going to learn that everything boils down to water. Analogy.

MatPat
I love it. No, and I think they're, I think it's a great analogy. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, you're, when you're doing it and you're doing it every single week and you feel the pressure of the algorithm and this and that, like, you are in the rapids and stuff is churning all the time and you're rushing to get the next video done and you're juggling all the production elements and there's all the long term stuff and the short term stuff, like, it's constant. You're getting inundated all the time and you're in your little raft paddling and you're getting splashed on all sides and you're like holding on for a dear life, right?

And the analogy of, yeah, the water settling and having that moment of like peace and quiet and then like letting, letting kind of the noise fall away and being like, what, what do I like? Like, who am I, like, what do I enjoy at this point? Or, or where do I want to pursue next? What do I want to learn about is exactly right. And, and to your point, you know, you could play the game.

Like, I think YouTube is still, like, the evolution of what creative content is. The game has shifted. It's tighter, it requires a very specific style of editing and processing and very specific format, which is tough. And the question is, hey, do you want to play that game or do you not? We've been consultants for ten years and like you called out earlier, I've been in the analytics since the very beginning because game theory took a long time to produce and I like numbers and so I would always analyze the data and run all these tests and stuff, right?

And as a result, we've consulted 200, 250 different channels over the years. We've worked with a ton of big brands and helped them with influencer strategies. We've consulted people on their programming. Like, we've done literally everything and we've touched a lot more things than I think people really realize. But it's one of those things where one of the things that we always say as consultants is like, hey, we're going to equip you with the knowledge that you need to have the maximum amount of success as we understand it, right?

Like, here's how the editing needs to look, here's how the format needs to be, here's how your thumbnail should flow, here's how other people in the vertical are doing it. Here's the laundry list of everything. And we just want to give you that knowledge so you can choose what is right for you and your brand and your content. Right? Like, what is right for you and your creative because you could follow all of them.

But is that true to your content? Is that like, what you want to do? Like at a certain point, like, like for me, like, for instance, I recognize very clearly that game theory, it's never going to be like, I had to grapple early on where I'm like, I will never be the number one channel on YouTube, number one most subscribed because there's a upper limit to the number of people who want to nerd out about video games. And there's especially an upper limit of people who want to do that about a variety of video games. You know, not just, like, focus on one piece of content all the time.

The fact that it's educational, the viewing style, this and that. Like, there are certain concessions that you have to make. I also recognize that our episodes are longer and more narrative and that there are ways that we could streamline them and that there are parts of that process that we could cut to make them more successful. But I'm like, but then you're losing the creativity that, and kind of like the, like you said, the artistry of it, or kind of like what my vision of that thing would be. And so, you know, we kind of leave it to the side.

Like, I can tell you, analytically speaking, a cold open of a video that is skit based is less effective than if we do just like, a, here's the thesis of the video, and we're gonna prove it, and blah, blah, blah. And that is the more optimized solution. But is it the right solution for you and the creative product that you want to get out? And it's a give and take it, and it's you as a creator, as a creative, deciding what is right for you and kind of where do you draw your line? Is it all about performance and numbers and you just want it to do as well as possible?

Great. Then there's a playbook for that. But do you want it to have a certain quality or a certain feel or vibe or emotion or things like that? Then you're going to sacrifice some of the viewership, you're going to sacrifice some of the performance, but you might be happier with the end result and kind of the quality that you've put out there. Yeah, it's just kind of a shame that that's what the bulk of YouTube kind of is.

Jacksepticeye
Like, if you go to YouTube and you're watching it as a casual viewer, like, a lot of people judge the system based on the numbers. You're like, this creator is the biggest in the world, and we're following him because that's a cool thing to do. It was the same with, like, when Felix was coming, becoming the biggest in the world, and then everyone loved that, and then as soon as he was, everyone was like, that's it. We're done. Yeah, like, time to bounce off of that and do something else.

So, yeah, it is a shame that the numbers part of it is so prevalent. Because I think. Because I, like, we. Jesus, right? I was gonna say, your headphones are attacking you right now.

MatPat
Are you okay? Hold on. Cause we've been doing it for so long that we've, like, seen stuff come and go and go in and out. But for, I think a lot about people who, like, when I started, I was like, man, this is cool. Somebody's doing this.

Jacksepticeye
They're getting paid to do it. I didn't know that was a thing that's completely gone now. You don't, like, everyone knows you get paid to do YouTube now, but I worry about the people who are sitting in the rooms who are like, I want to do it. And the hurdle seems so it's like a sisyphean task now to actually make a YouTube channel and roll that ball up the hill constantly just to have it crush you constantly. So it's kind of sad that some of that homegrown, sort of organic feel to it is gone.

I think maybe it'll swing back. Maybe that pendulum's coming back. And it's because it was kind of overproduced in the beginning. When I was starting out, there was a lot of that kind of content. And then I think my wave of content was a lot more like, just sit back, listen, talk, be yourself.

It's all personality driven, and now that's kind of going out, and it's ideas, it's production, it's editing. So I'm just curious if it'll. If we're coming back down out of that slope at all, ever. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a. It's a pendulum swinging.

MatPat
And there's a couple factors that all play into this. Right? So on one side, yeah, you definitely have the audience. And the audience, I think you are seeing kind of that pushback where there is, like, I called out Ryan Trahan before with his kind of, like, more rudimentary production style. And there's.

There's a couple fitness channels that have been doing really well lately where it's like, hey, I'm just vlogging my life for an hour, and you're just kind of hanging out with me in the grocery store, and we're walking and talking, and that that's sort of like, long form, unedited, relatable content feels good for a lot of people, and you're seeing a kind of a pushback into that kind of organic feel of things. So there will always be kind of like a swing back and forth, for sure, that being said. And the other side of that, too, is shorts. Right. I think part of the reason why YouTube has really pushed shorts is that instead of the system being dominated by a couple of large creators, now anyone can have six.

You know, TikTok is the same thing, right, where every video that you upload is a lottery ticket and it's like this could get ten views or this could get 10 million views, right? And it could come from anywhere. And by the nature of TikTok, the, the production value expectation is much lower. In fact, it works better if it's less produced on TikTok, whereas on YouTube, YouTube shorts requires higher production value. Fun fact, run the numbers.

Yeah, yeah. Let me tell you about all the secret, like a b testing we've done, but no, that sort of stuff works. YouTube is a much more polished platform with production value TikTok. If you have too much production value, people immediately click off and swipe away. But as a result, it's opened the door for more voices and more different creators of all different tiers.

So there is a benefit to that. But by putting you into a feed, a feed of content, you no longer connect with the creator because the creator is no longer the focus, right? If you think about YouTube, I go to the channel page and I'm watching Jack Jacksepticeye or I'm watching crank game plays, you know, like I know you, I know your brand, maybe you have a catchphrase, maybe you have a logo or an intro or something like that, right? And so I know I'm, and to find your videos again, I'm searching for crank gameplays again, but it's one of those things where on TikTok or shorts, you know, the actual, like creator branding is like a small thing in the corner and you can't see it and you're not going to click on it. You're loyal to the scroll, you're loyal to the platform.

Like people, when people talk about TikTok, they're like, I love TikTok. It's not like, oh, I love that creator, or oh, there's this one person that I really connect with. And so you lose a lot of that, which I think is this shame of it, part one and then part two is to that idea of, can we get it back? Just like with the consulting stuff and as a creator and as a creative, you kind of choose where you set your line to. The trick of where we are today is that mobile games in the food world, in the entertainment world, and especially here in digital video, everything is designed with neuroscience principles behind it, right?

Like they know, hey, you getting a good video or you getting a reward in a mobile game or whatever, that's a shot of dopamine in your brain. And we have calculated to, like, the minute, how long it is before your brain's ready to give you another shot of dopamine. And so we're gonna like, yeah, a couple dud video. Dud video. Dud video.

Oh, another dopamine shot. And so everything right now in the world, it's kind of crazy, but, like, everything is designed with a lot of these, like, brain chemistry principles underneath them, and they're designed to addict you and to hook you and to get you on the platform for as long as possible, scrolling or swiping or whatever, and watching. And the trick is you are in a system where are there better ways to do it? And is there more wholesome content? Is there stuff that is more substantial, whatever?

Yeah, absolutely. But our brains aren't wired to do that. Like, to react that way. And for the platforms to, you know, know that and actively move away from it, they are choosing something that hurts their bottom line. You know, like, oh, well, we're only gonna provide you educational content or we're only gonna provide you stuff that is, you know, more egalitarian or shows off x that's more artistic or whatever.

The platform will automatically be under serving itself because it's not optimized for because. And there's always gonna be another platform that's gonna pop in, you know, like, it's a race to the bottom. And so you're in this kind of catch 22 now where the Pandora's box has been opened, and we know that you know how to design these things. So that way people are in it and they're locked in and they're going to be locked in for hours on end. And it's like, well, if I'm not going to do it, someone else is and they're going to profit off of it.

So you need to figure, like, what is the solution there? It's tricky. That's the big question. Is there a solution? Or has that box been, you know, unpacked?

Jacksepticeye
That's it. I'm taking the kid out to the back. I'm shooting him. It's over, guys. The kid is dead.

There's no college. There's no money left. There's no education good enough. It's weird hearing you talk about, you said this a while ago, but I was thinking about it. Sorry I talked so long.

MatPat
I apologize. It's, it's. You are the guest. That's why. Please shut me up at some point.

I'm so sick of hearing myself, I had to quit YouTube. Sick of hearing myself talk. Yeah, that's the real reason. Yeah, here's all this talk about platform changes and having a kid and this and I'm just sick of myself, Sean. I'm so sick of myself.

Jacksepticeye
So sick of it. No, but hearing you talk about something that I haven't really thought of before was like mid tier youtubers, because I would consider myself a mid tier youtuber where, you know, which I think is. Kind of sad if a 2 million subscriber YouTube channel is considered mid tier. Yeah, well, that's what I was about to say is like, I know that 2 million is a large number, but in the, in the grand scheme of YouTube now, where, you know, the top channel is what, like 200 plus million or whatever MrBeast has. I don't know, it is weird to beat a channel of 2 million subs and be like, okay, that's like mid tier.

Ethan Nestor
But the swing is so large. I feel like for channels my size, where one video will do a million views and then the next video will do 100k or even less. And so there's such a big swing and it feels, and maybe this is me doing things wrong, but it feels sort of unpredictable at this level sometimes. And I feel like in the past it was a lot easier to predict, okay, I know this video is going to do really well. And now I'm like, I actually don't know because now it's like, oh, I know this video is going to do sweet.

I thought it was really funny and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I post it and it's like, oh, okay, I guess the platform didn't like it. Oh, well, I think that's the sad part of algorithmic content, is that you don't know what went wrong. So you just have to put the blame on yourself and the onus is on you and you could have done everything right and it still couldn't have worked. Yeah, no.

Jacksepticeye
You could have hit a template perfectly and it could have still been a dud. You never know. Yeah, no, 100%. And I think, you know, that's one of the reasons why, you know, talking about YouTube optimization and one of those things has been such an important part of me and my role in this world and this and that. So that way people are empowered to make better creative content or to understand that it's not just them.

MatPat
Right. Like that there are so many factors at play that are not in your control when you do this sort of thing. And I hate using the phrase mid tier creator because it feels like I did a video back in the day where we had like 10 million subscribers and we were called a middle, mid tier creator. Like, class. That was.

Yeah, you know, I get sent the package for mid tier creators and it's like, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Sorry, guys. It's my fault, right? I know.

You're raising the curve, man. Come on. Not anymore. I'm not fucking it up, right? But, but it is, it's one of those things where, like, when I say mid tier creator for the, for the sake of clarity, it's people who have, have been successful enough on the platform where they're able to do it full time and, you know, have, have dedicated their life to content creation, but, you know, don't have massive teams around them.

Like, they might have one, two, maybe three employees, maybe an editor, maybe a designer, thumbnail artist, whatever, like a couple people hanging out around them to help them, but it's not to the scale of, you know, like, like a theorist or, you know, someone who's much more established where there's a large team around them and they're able to churn out content on a fairly regular basis. And the reason I say it's so hard is exactly what you called out, which is it is unpredictable and it is hard to read the algorithm and as screen real estate on YouTube is more competitive than ever and is trying to serve you small creators and a ton of shorts and the people that you know, you like, but then also something that's trendy with something that you just recently watched, instead of having a lot of slots available for your video to be shown up there, if it doesn't perform quickly and efficiently and hooks people immediately, you're not going to get shared as widely and you're going to see those numbers that are like, you know, ten k, 20k, you know, like the lower performance relative to what you would expect. Right? And that sucks when you are in a position where other people's livelihoods are resting on that paycheck or when you are, you know, hey, we're all in this together and it's hard for me to pay you right now because the adsense is unpredictable. It used to be like, hey, I could expect a steady stream of about this amount, and you get this and you get this and we can design it, whatever, and it's great.

But now when it's like, whoo, we're up here, and now we're down here, now we're up here that's why I say it's so hard for people to cross through that mid tier channel and get to the other side of it because it is so unpredictable to build a business on this platform, and it's more unstable now than I think, than it's ever been. Yeah. Do you think it's still possible? Because I remember this kept getting thrown around when my channel was growing, was like, oh, this is the last generation of people who are really going to explode on YouTube. And there's been a few channels that had, like, meteoric growth so quickly, and I've been hearing that for so long that, like.

Jacksepticeye
Like, mRBeast is the last creator that's ever gonna explode like that. And then someone like Ryan Trahan comes along and does it. Do you think it's still possible for people to do that? Or is it just not, I guess, even. Is it even noteworthy anymore if people do do that because so many people have accomplished it at this point?

MatPat
Well, I think it's a couple things. I think, first off, MrBeast is probably the last one who will matter, for lack of a better term. And there's, again, a couple things that play. I'm sorry, I wish I had an efficient answer for everything, but it's always like, there's three things. No, that's what the podcast is for.

Right? Long form content is great because we can talk about that stuff. You're out of the algorithm, Matt. It's true, and it's free. I'm going ice skating.

It's gonna be wonderful. I'm skating right now. It has to be edited to a certain amount. I'm ice skating as we speak on this podcast. No, it's a couple different things.

Right. So first off, YouTube is more siloed than it's ever been. And by that, I mean, yeah, I. Don'T get what that means. Yeah.

So when I say siloed, it means, like, you are in your bubble, and it is hard to break out of your bubble. Last year, we were hired on by Google to consult them at a couple sessions across the country. And it was all about, like, building up our business as a creator and how did we use Google products to grow and this and that. And so we consulted a lot of really cool rooms and had a lot of really cool conversations. But one of the things that I kept using in a lot of those conversations just to kind of, like, get the room's attention, was I'm like, hey, this was like mid last year, like early summer or something like that.

And I'm like, hey, how many of you have heard of skippity toilet? And no. And no one in the room raised their hand. No one. And I'm like, no one.

No one's seen a video? No one's heard of this? Nothing. Right? And no one.

Right. Crickets. And this is your undertale pope moment again. Yeah, crickets. Right?

And it's one of those things where I'm like, okay, well, just so you know, here's the graph of. Of skippity toilet. And I show them, and it's like, last month or, like, two months ago, you know, 25 million subscribers overnight and 2 billion views. And I'm like, right now, skippity toilet is the most successful thing on your platform or on this platform, and no one has heard of it. Like, eventually, like, it took till the end of the summer or a couple months later for people to start having a cultural conversation around it.

But I'm like, this thing is everywhere, and it is crushing, and none of you have seen it. And I'm like, you know, look at. And again, we keep tossing out Ryan, but I'm like, ryan Trahan. I watch a lot of his videos, and I think he's great, and I think he's really talented. And I am very rarely served up his content on my feet.

And that's what I mean by siloed. It means, like, you are in your bubble, and you're in your kind of silo, and discovering new stuff is really hard. And so you can, like. Like, if I asked you, like, how many subscribers does Mark Rober have, you know, right now? No idea.

Jacksepticeye
It would be for 50 million. 50 million. Okay, good one. Yeah, that's. I mean, you're getting.

MatPat
You're about right. So he gained, like, 10 million subscribers, 15 million subscribers over the last couple months. And. And it's one of those things where people don't know those stories anymore. And it used to be when there was, you know, a cultural fabric across here, like, everyone kind of knew what other people were doing.

There were kind of those cross genre trends, and you were able to kind of, like, create those content flywheels and things like that. That doesn't exist anymore just because of how the platform operates. And how, again, goes back to the short term memory. It goes to your watch habits. It goes to the evolution of the platform.

But, yeah, it's become harder and harder to kind of break through and have those voices cross over and do that sort of thing. Exactly what you said before. A lot of other people have done it at this point, and so having someone kind of like rise up, it would take a lot to kind of like have that sort of like cultural voice and to be able to like, you know, once someone hits 200 million subscribers, it's like the numbers are meaningless. And also, subscribership at this point is an antiquated metric. Like we all kind of recognize at this point.

Jacksepticeye
Yeah, I keep telling people that. I'm like, it doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. The system is outsmarted subscribership. It's there because it's a fun incentive and it's a fun metric and it's cool to get a golden play button and that's something to shoot for.

MatPat
And that's very easy and quantifiable when in actuality, the, the true metric of success is average views per video. Haha. But no one's like, avd, guys, what is average views per video? It's Avv. Like, yeah, I feel like watch time.

Jacksepticeye
And stuff like that has been decaying forever. Didn't know. No, and it's not as sexy of a metric. It's not like front and center and you don't get a golden play button when you hit a certain number of it or whatever. And so, like, the reality is the system's smarter than that.

MatPat
If you're gonna watch something, it has a pretty good idea if you're gonna watch it or, you know, if it's something that wants to promote, it's gonna promote it, whatever. Like, and so subscribership, like, there was fanfare in MrBeast crossed that number, but at this point, people are like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, like, fine, yeah. And so I think you'll still have people who are able to guide trends and able to kind of like find success. But again, as it does feel like we are in a, and there will always be a couple people who are setting the trends and maybe not at that scale and maybe not at that size, because again, oh, sorry, I should probably roll back because this is the other side of it, which I meant to bring up, which is YouTube, I suspect, doesn't want another adpocalypse.

Right. And so I think one of the things that they've recognized is that if your platform is dominated by a couple of large creators, and granted, MrBeast is that right now. But I think with this, hey, let's make shorts a thing and hey, let's spread out the views across a wider swath of people. Right? Communism.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But bit by the people, it de risks, risks the platform. Right. Like, if all. Yeah, you can't have an ad pocalypse if there isn't a pewdiepie or a Logan Paul.

And, you know, mrbeast is that right now? But I think YouTube has started to realize and the success of TikTok and things like that is like, hey, we can still be creator first, but not like these creators first. And I think you're seeing kind of a slow, but a potentially a slow correction to that where it's like, hey, if a channel with a million subscribers gets canceled or does something terrible or whatever, no one's gonna bat an eye because no one's heard of that person, or it hasn't. It doesn't have that cultural permeation over everything. And so it protects us as a platform.

It still allows, you know, us to be creators first or whatever, while de risking everything. So there's a lot. You're fine. You can say what you want. No one will care.

Jacksepticeye
No one will care because I'm canceled. It's not real. It's so stronger than ever. It's so weird being in the year of our lord 2024 and being someone who grew up with the Internet and being like, virality doesn't really exist anymore. Like, mrbeast videos, I don't watch them.

Ethan Nestor
They never pop up on my feed. I don't really see many clips of them. And his videos get, what, like 200 million per video or whatever. And I feel like the, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the term of, like, this video going viral isn't really a thing anymore because there's so many people watching so much stuff all the time. Well, I th, for me, I think TikTok has just ruined people's ability to discern what numbers mean.

MatPat
Yeah. Like, I was hanging out with some game dev people over the week, and they were talking about something, got viewed, like, 8 million times, and then they, like, turned to me and they were like, I don't know how big that is. Like, it's probably not that big at all. And I'm like, 8 million views is still a based on what platform you're getting it on. Obviously it matters more, but, like, that's still a fuck ton of views to get on anything.

Jacksepticeye
Yeah, but it's just, people see TikToks now with, like, 30, 40. Like, unless you're getting 30 million views on a tick tock now. People are like, that's not viral. No one cares. Yeah, no, it's true.

MatPat
And, and I think you call out a really good point there, too, which is like, hey, it depends on the platform. It depends on how that view is counted. It depends on where. What? Like, there's so many, you know, depends on.

Or, like, caveats or, like, little addendums there that. That it changes everything to right where a view doesn't equal a view, but, like, this view counted because it was autoplay. Like, there. There's so much, like, deep, I guess, not deep knowledge, but there's so much kind of just general confusion in the space about, like, what numbers mean and are they real? Like, hey, you know that trailer has 25 million?

You know, they have 25 up. That happened with their views. No. What happened? No.

Jacksepticeye
They broke the record for most views ever because they were announcing their loot boxes on discord, but somehow they accidentally, like, an engineering code thing accidentally had an autoplay for everybody who ever used discord that day. Yeah. So it got a billion views in less than 24 hours, man. Yeah. So they were sitting at, like, 1.4 billion views on their video, and the people on the team were, like, screenshotting each other, being like, what happened?

Why are people so excited about disco loot boxes? And then it was like, oh, shit, what did I do? So they, like, view bottom by accident. Sorry. Yeah, but.

MatPat
But that's exactly it, right? Like, I mean, you. You ask the question of. Of art. Can I even trust these views?

You know? Like, there's so many ways that you can buy views, you know? And there. There's, like, kick as a platform, right? Like, who knows?

Where's the money coming from? There's. There's so much, like, sketchiness in the ecosystem and not. Not just YouTube, but, like, across the board, right? You know?

Like, do you think that a lot of people are following, like, top TikTokers, a lot of cases because they choose to, or is it because it's auto populated? Because, hey, it's a good story. If this person has 100 million followers and they look like this, and they check x, y, and z boxes and they fulfill corporate mandate, whatever. There's so many factors at play, and it's one part, like, I'm the conspiracy theorist, but it's also just part of, like, I've existed in this world. I've talked to businesses.

I've studied all these platforms, and there's so much more beyond. There's so much more that goes beyond just the success of, like, this was a good piece of content, or this is a creator that I like, or this is a channel that's cool, right? Some people are definitely getting preferential treatment every now and then for lack of a better term. Like, it's not making or breaking careers, but there's definitely, like, we've seen it happen where some people get claimed on something or they get a strike or whatever you want to say. Like they get ads taken off the video and then somebody else who did the exact same thing didn't.

Jacksepticeye
Because you've been a good boy for so long that you kind of like flew under the radar and the system just didn't, it wasn't tracking you as harshly as was somebody else. Right. Yeah. And people definitely want to push something, whether people like it or not. Well, it's also, I mean, and it also makes business sense in a lot of cases, too, where it's like, hey, these are all platforms that are based on ad rates and this and that.

MatPat
And if you're a, and if you're an advertise, like, if you're like a platform, you're selling a bunch of ads to, you know, a bunch of people six months out in advance to twelve months out in advance and they're expecting a certain number of views. And if all of a sudden, like, this person gets canceled or these views disappear or whatever, it's like, uh oh, we just sold. We're on the hook for a lot of views or a lot of impressions or whatever we need. So we need to create some level of stability and future proofing and we need to control the system to some extent in order to make sure that, like, the unpredictability of this business doesn't hamper this ten, 5000 million dollars deal that we did over here. So we got to make it work.

Jacksepticeye
Yeah. And God knows how many lawsuits they have under the covers constantly, like month on month. They must be just battling their lawyer team. Must be constantly just like putting out fires left, right and center with the amount of people on the platform. Well, that's, I mean, that's one of those things where it's like, you know, in my retirement, a lot of people are like, what are you gonna do next?

MatPat
What are you gonna do next? And one of the popular ones that gets thrown out to me a lot is like, oh, you're gonna be CEO of YouTube. And I'm like, nope. Like, you could not pay me enough to do that shit. Like, hey, do you want to be the most hated person in America?

Where it's like, like the legislator, the legislators hate you, like, the audience constantly hates you, the creator, like, you are a nexus of, like hatred, you're a lightning rod of hate. And it's like, I'm good man, I'm fine. Yeah? Yeah. I really don't want to do that job right now.

Ethan Nestor
Speaking of people asking what you're doing after your retirement and say as much or as little about this as you want. And I first wanted to ask, like, what are you doing right now? But instead I'm going to rephrase it. As someone who's off the platform and doesn't have to worry about the grind on YouTube, what are you, what are you currently passionate about? Like, what's exciting to you right now and what, what gets you up every day other than your child, obviously.

MatPat
He definitely wakes me up very early every day, so that's, that's cool. No, I mean, here's the thing. Like, even though I'm not on the platform and I'm not, like, I'm still on GT live and so I still, you know, do our, like, our gaming channel and things like that. But even though I'm not, like, doing the main channels anymore, I'm still behind the scenes helping mentor the creators. I'm teaching them.

We're going through vo lessons and scripting lessons, and I'm trying to help them learn how to find their own voices, how to kind of speedrun my process in a lot of ways. And we've been doing that for the last year. A lot of the creative directors who've taken over the channels at this point, the longest one has been with us for six years. Everyone has been at least a year. And the training regimen has been at least a year to get people going and get them to where they are now, and they're still learning.

So two and a half, I believe I calculated the other day, two and a half days of my week are spent in one on one meetings with them, training them. We have a whole curriculum on how to YouTube, how to be an expert on X, Y and Z, and how to contribute to the rest of the team and this and that. So there's a lot of that process. Can I go to game theory school? It sounds awesome.

Yeah. Come on. It'll be great to have you. You could be, you could be a special guest speaker. It'd be amazing.

If you're looking to retire from Jacksepticeye, like, you can always come on over. Nothing to teach. You can come on theory. I've been brain dead for a long time, Matt. There's nothing going on in here.

But, so we got, so that's one thing, like, so a lot of it is doing that. A lot of it is also, we're working on a lot of projects in the background. I mentioned the fashion show that we have going on, and that's been kind of like a long process where we're crafting together this live fashion show event that's happening in LA, and it is us, plus a couple other creators, all who are doing interesting things in the apparel fashion space all under one roof. And so it's basically like six shows all in one that are kind of, like, being funneled through us, which is kind of fun. Yeah.

So that's been a cool one that I've been helping out in the background. We have a mystery music project that we're working on right now. So we have some really talented musicians on staff. And I'm like, I want an opportunity for you to show off the cool stuff that you're able to do. Like, you guys are awesome.

I want there to be a spotlight for you guys. And so it's called lorefi. Hopefully, it's launching in May, but basically, the idea of it is it's a lo fi channel with mostly. It's not quite lo fi, but close. It's like lo fi music in different genres and hidden in the music and hidden in the visuals and stuff like that.

There's a story around it and there's actual lore, and it's an arg that you can solve while you're chilling out and listening to the music, that it's just relaxing and stuff. It. It's exactly what you said earlier, Sean. Where it's like, are you trying to make sleeper agents? We're just gonna have this on and it'll be like, kill the president.

Jacksepticeye
I really have to, like, craft a theory and kill a president right now. Right? I'm so compelled to subscribe to game theory and also no worship. Matpat. What's that?

MatPat
Yeah, there's a lot of subliminal messaging. Matpat for king. Matpat for king. Yeah. But it's all part of the plan, my friends.

So, yeah, I'm passionate about world domination at this point. I'm passionate about my presidency. My presidency run. So you know all that good stuff. No.

And so there's a couple of these kind of, like, bigger scale, more narrative driven projects that we would never have been able to do on the channel. And I hope they work and I hope people like them, and I think people really dig them. But it's fun and just gets me to express different creative sensibilities while spotlighting the team and what they're doing, which is cool. So that's really fun. And then, yeah, like, you said there's been so many games that I've wanted to play that I put on the back burner because I'm like, oh, those won't work on the channel, and, oh, I can't play them on GT live, but I've always wanted.

So I have this big list of all these games that I'm like, oh, this is my bucket list or my to do list of games books. We're really into travel, and so Steph and I, we haven't gotten to take many vacations. We've taken a lot of trips, but we've never taken many vacations over the years because you're always carrying recording equipment and this and that. So we have a lot of travel planned this year, too, where we're staying down in Mexico for a bit. We're going to Paris in a couple weeks.

We're going to Greece with Ollie for a little bit, you know, like. And so we're doing a little bit of, like, a little world tour. Not a world tour, but, like, a couple of spots here and there. But travel and experiencing the world. The world's so cool.

And living. Yeah, living. Having a. Living a fruitful life. Yeah.

Experiencing things. Yeah. And that's what it is. Right. I think one of those things that's easy to forget when you're in the content bubble is that the world is out there.

Right. A couple weeks after we did the last video, Steph and I took a trip to Utah and Colorado with Ali, and we just hiked through the national parks there. And there was that realization of, like, there's arches National park and the Grand Canyon and stuff like that. And there's that realization of, like, these places are here and they're here all the time, round the clock, ready to be explored and ready to be viewed and appreciated. Right?

And that's awesome. And it's like, I could be sitting in front of a computer doing this or. And working and grinding and doing stuff, and there's value to that. And I still like doing the work and working on projects and stuff, but I also just like experiencing the world and being that person who's able to go and experience those things that are just waiting for you to take advantage of it. It's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, that's. I mean, the character of a human is always like, grow up, family, kids, house, retire. Then you get to do what you want. Then you get.

Ethan Nestor
Then you die. Yeah. Right. Yeah, right. There's that sliver there where it's like, oh, finally I get to experience things, but I'm too old to experience things.

Jacksepticeye
Yeah. So it's. I think it's cool to be at an age where you're able to retire and do what you want and kind of, like, experience the world and grow your brain and see all the cultures and do you have a, like, a pie in the sky pipe dream? Like, one project that you've always wanted to do that's, like, sitting up there, way top of the shelf, because for me, it's like, I want to write a novel at some point. Yeah.

And I'm like, that just seems like an impossible task for me, but something to reach for. Yeah. Is there something like that you've always wanted to do? I just want. I just want to host a game show, man.

MatPat
I don't want to necessarily be the one who produces the game show. Like, I am tired. In a lot of ways, I'm enjoying making things, but I'm tired of being the guy at the central focal point of making everything right. Like, it's always been me, my vision, my creative, my ideas, my brainstorming, all this stuff, and it's great. Matt, if I could give you an analogy, you're basically the prism with which all ideas get split out on the other side.

Jacksepticeye
Plenty of our visual listeners out there. Do you think that that would be. Hard for you as a person who has always been the person that's contributed to every facet? Do you think that you would be able to, like, just be the host? Do you think that would be tough?

MatPat
Here's the thing. I think, like, yes, I think it would be hard, but I think I could do it and I'd enjoy it, because here's the thing. I could never let go of anything on game theory, because at the end of the day, it was my show, my channel, my business, right? And so for me to not touch every script and not look at all the edits and things, like, it would be. It was hard to get to that point, or it was.

And in a lot of cases, I didn't get to that point, especially with scripts like the editors. I got to a point where I'm like, I trust editors. On almost every episode, there's a couple I'm going to pop in, you know, that are more important or more specific or whatever, but, like. But when it came to scripting, I was in the weeds up until the final episode, like, tinkering, working on all that stuff, right. Because it was my voice and I was represented there, I think, with a game show, if it was produced by someone else, and it was clearly someone else's project.

I'm just there as talent and having fun and hosting and having a good old time, because it's not my project and my show. I think people, like, I would be okay with it, like, you know, not being in the weeds. I think I'd give suggestions, and I think I'd be like, hey, have you thought about this? Or, hey, have we considered this? Or whatever?

And I think that would be that. That's just in my nature as a guy who likes to, again, teach people, equip people with knowledge, and, like, try to make the things that we work on the best possible. But if that wasn't, you know, if they're like, that's too hard, or that doesn't work, or whatever, like, that's okay. That's fine. I get it.

So it would just. Just be fun. I did a. I did a show with go 90 back in the day called the runner. I heard that in a long time, right?

Go 90. That is. I was gonna say, nor should you, Ethan. No, the whole. It was a verizon.

It was basically, like, as everyone trying to make their own platform form for, like, premium video. Like, all YouTube's got, like, the crap videos, but, like, go night, you know, we've got the premium videos, and go ninety's the one that has the content that makes you want to go 90 with your phone. It's the ones that makes you want to turn your phone 90 degrees so you can watch it in widescreen. Okay. That was the whole shtick.

Yeah. Not so much. Um, no. But the show that I did there was actually the one and only thing that actually got people over there, which was fun. It was.

It was a nice. But it was a show called the Runner, and it was a cross country manhunt show where you had this one person who no one had ever seen before, and teams that were hunting this person, and they would be in the same city at the same time, and they have to figure out, like, where this guy was and stuff. It was. It was really fun. It was ahead of its time.

But that was a production that I got to host and was handled by the production teams who do stuff like survivor and things like that. So, like, they came in really well prepared. They knew it all. And so I was able to come in and they would call me in to consult about, like, hey, what do you think the Internet would think about this? Or, you know, do you think the audience would enjoy x, y, and z?

And so, like, there was a good back and forth there, but at the end of the day, it was their show, and it was just like me getting the challenge of working through it and solving the mysteries of the day and this and that, which was a lot of fun. And so, like, being able to achieve that again would be great, but it would take an adjustment, but I think I'd be okay with it. But that's my pie in the sky game show. I just want someone just give me a game show. That's all I want.

Jacksepticeye
You heard him, folks. Give Matpat a game show. All of the billions of viewers of Brainleak give Matt pad a game show. Hey, you're, you're more than welcome to host some parts of thank miss. If you want, if we turn.

If we could make a game show segment for you. Oh, I mean, I I would love to be a part. I mean, I had such a good time last year, and thank you again for having me be a part of. It's such an incredible event, and it was so much fun. I'm sorry if I came out.

MatPat
I'm sorry if I came out a bit strong. I feel. I feel like my energy level might have steamrolled you a little bit. That was one of my things when I left that I was like, I'm so glad Matt does what he does, because you're on stage for that long and you're doing it for that long, that you kind of just become brain dead and you have someone talking in your ear and you have so many, like, spinning plates and you're trying to, like, are the audience having fun? Are people backstage?

Jacksepticeye
Is everything okay? Or what are we at? So for you to come out with energy, like, towards the middle, and I can't even remember when you were, but it's like, it just reinvigorates everything. And especially when there's other people on stage who are a bit more shy and a bit more subdued and are a bit afraid of, like, cracking eggs in their heads. And with the audience coming up on stage, like, I thought it was great.

MatPat
Oh, it was great. I don't think you have anything to apologize for. No, I think, I think that's one of the other, like, retirement projects that I'm debating, and it's like, oh, would I like to do this would be like a, like a live tour, because I know, like, you guys have done tours, right? And it's one of those things where my background is in theater and those sorts of experiences with the live audience on a stage, and you feel the energy and there's that give and take with the audience is so satisfying for me and so exciting and invigorating. I was at PAX a couple weeks ago, PAx east, and it was amazing.

And I gave a presentation there about just like my life in game theory. And again, it was one of those, it was a pack theater of 3000 people and it was so awesome. And I missed this and I love this. And that's the other thing that I debate. And one of the things that would not get me out of retirement, but a new project that I would probably open up is, hey, is there a map hat on tour kind of thing?

Because that would be a lot of fun for me. So, yeah, I think touring is great. I think it's anybody that does this type of content I think should go out on a tour because it's so fun to do. It's such a different energy, it's a different skill set. It kind of, it kind of ruined my ability to record videos after I did it because I'm like, there's no one here laughing and I don't know what to do.

Jacksepticeye
It was. It was so much harder to like, keep the energy going. Yeah. But doing a live show in front of people was one of the coolest things I think I've ever done to the point where I'm like, I want to do another one. I just.

I need to figure that maybe I need to retire for one of those to happen where I'm like, I need to find the time gap to figure out when I would go on tour to do anything like that. The retired youtubers tour, guys. Oh, that would. That would be great. Now that's an idea.

MatPat
I. Okay, I'm in. Gate. I quit. Hey, guys, you know.

You know how like a week ago I said I had two years, like, sorry, hate to pull Matpat the other day and I'm gone. Everyone just hates me. It's like, oh, and he convinced me. I need to leave. Yeah, that should be the title of this episode.

Jacksepticeye
It's just Matpat convinced Sean to quit YouTube. That's great. Yeah, put in the cool. Hey, man, I'm in. Yeah.

MatPat
You coming with? You coming with us to map out. Convince Sean and Ethan to quit YouTube. What? Now this, this might be a little sad, but what was that like?

Ethan Nestor
If you could sum it up in a word or a sentence pressing and record on the final goodbye Internet video. What did that feel like? Oh, it. Huh. It was.

MatPat
It was bittersweet and relieving, but also. Yeah, very, like, bittersweet is absolutely like the theme of it. Where it is, it's that moment of, like, it's a moment of closure and it's a moment of immense relief because you've been carrying it around and it's been a secret and it's been kind of building up and there's all this, and you have all this expectation for it. Is it gonna be right? Is it gonna come out okay?

Things like that. And, and there's that moment of, hey, I got through it. It's, it's one of the hardest videos to, that I've ever made, you know, and, and incredibly personal and incredibly vulnerable and you're, you're scared, cuz. Yeah, I mean, Sean, you just said it like, you just did yours a couple weeks ago, not your goodbye video, but like, yeah, where you're, I mean, it's, it's opening yourself up and admitting vulnerability and fear and you want people to know how much you appreciate them and that this isn't trying to abandon them at all and that this isn't anything about that. Because the community, to me, has always been the most important.

And I know, like, nowadays it's about, like, numbers and subscribers and brand deals and, but, like, monetization and the audience and the fans and it's like, no, like, I come from the decade where it's like, oh, no, it's a community. Like, we are, we're all united here in our collective nerd dumb and we're all a little bit different in our neurology. And we all like to fiddle with things and theorize about things, right? And so I wanted to make sure that everyone felt appreciated and that they understood my perspective and where I was at and why it made sense for me and also for them. And that also that I wasn't, wasn't truly gone ever, but that that relationship lives on.

So it is, it was. There was, there was a bit of a delayed reaction to it where I had that I hit stop recording and there's that moment of relief and, like, immediate sadness, and you're just like, kind of breathing through it. But then later in the day, actually, there was another moment where I was back in the same space and I was, I was cleaning up some things and I was kind of there alone. And it was dark and quiet and the day had kind of ended. And it was one of those where it's like a palpable difference in the room and your relationship with the room had changed.

And you look at it and you're like, oh, this is different now. And something has shifted and again and again, it was that moment of, like, let me sit down and process that. It's that grieving process again. Like, let me sit down and process this. Because this place that's been so important to me and so familiar to me and such an intrinsic part of my life, you can't go back there again.

Or, like, your relationship to it has changed fundamentally. And you can go back there, but it means something different. And it's validating and sad and a little bit scary. It's a lot of emotions all mixed together. Absolutely.

Ethan Nestor
Obviously, you said that this had been a plan for a year plus, but how much time in between actually recording that and posting it was there? Which one? The final. Final theory or the announcement video? The announcement.

MatPat
The announcement. That one was.

It was a couple days, actually. It was a very. It was a fairly quick turn. Usually we budget about a week to doing things, but this one was a little bit faster just because of a variety of different reasons. But it was a lot faster.

And also, it's a lot easier to edit, which is great. In fact, that was my big note to the editors, is I'm like, I want as few edits to this as possible. Because the more edits, I want it to be clear that this was something that was just communicated from my heart to them. I don't want it to feel like it was a corporate mandated video where every line had to be further. No, this is an honest conversation, and I don't want it edited.

I want it to be real. But no, it was. It was quick, which. Which I think was good. Because if there had been a long delay between there and the actual, like, publication of it, it would have been, you know, you're.

You start to second guess it. Does it lose relevancy? Like, do you feel differently? So, no, I was glad that it was a quick turn, for sure. Yeah.

Jacksepticeye
Ripping analogy. I'd say it's kind of like an exorcism. Great. Yeah, no, I think. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think Sean has an analogy for exactly this scenario.

MatPat
Yeah. When those lights went off and closing time started playing in the background, and you thought, I have exorcised the demon, and you hung up your cross, I think that's when you knew, this sounds. Like a really good exorcism movie where the demon. Right. It's either.

I mean, it's either great or it's so bad. It's great. Yeah. Someone has a possessed YouTube channel and they need to exercise it and then close. No, you had me at closing time.

Honestly, music. Drop the needle. Drop of closing time. Fist in the air. Fist in the air.

Slams the cross on the wall. Freeze frame. Did you just go into the room and be like, that's just the theory. Like a soft spoken. A game theory, and you just turned around.

Jacksepticeye
Fist in the air, closing time. Did you. Did you schedule that video, or did. You manually publish it? No, it was.

MatPat
It was scheduled, but I was. But I was there when it, like. Like, it was scheduled to release, just because that's. That's our process, and that's our procedure at this point. But I was there to watch it take over, and I was actually.

So I was the one who pressed schedule. Could we have a. We have a team of channel managers who kind of, like, help package videos at this point and schedule and that. But I requested to be the person to hit schedule. Like, who.

Boop. Scheduled. And it wasn't scheduled that far. Again, it wasn't scheduled that far in advance. So there was a little bit more of an immediacy to it, and then I was there to watch it kind of, like, change over and see, like, okay, there.

And it's live, and there it is. And thus. And then you're like, ah, eight out of ten.

Change the thumbnail. That was definitely a one of ten video. No doubt. That was pretty. Your retirement video isn't a one of ten.

Jacksepticeye
You fucked up so much. Yeah. If the retirement video isn't one of ten, you probably should have retired a while ago, to be honest. Oh, God. Yeah.

MatPat
Oh, no. Go back. Throw him back on the couch. Get up. Give him to cry.

Oh, hey. Tears breeds views. Yes.

Jacksepticeye
Quick. Somebody spit on me.

Well, Matt, it's been great to have you on the episode. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah, no, I want you to be my dad. Mm hmm. I'll be your dad.

MatPat
I'll be whatever you need me to be. Absolutely. Don't give over too much of yourself. You're still in Internet mode, okay? This is a test, and you failed.

Damn it. Hey, I said I'll be Daddy. You say no. I said I'll be your dad, not your daddy. Okay?

You. You took it. There is a. You took it there. I'll be your.

I'm just more excited about our live retirement tour. Like, honestly, the, like, retired youtuber tour. That is. That is a thing. Like, we got to get.

Who else are we getting on this thing? I got to get Jenna marbles. Got to get. I mean, there's. There's a lot.

Jacksepticeye
We got to get the ogs back. We need to get some, like, real dinosaurs on this thing. Oh, yeah. Including an actual dinosaur. Like the guy.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, the. The inflatable raptor suits. That was a big thing for a while like that. That was a big thing.

MatPat
They're retired at this point. We should all come out dressed as dumb. Yeah. We can open it with the Harlem shake. Yeah.

Oh, man. All flicking fidget spinners. Yeah. Oh, this is great. It'll be like the Jurassic tour.

Yeah, over the hill YouTube. Honestly, you could do it. You could do, like, a yearly event, too. And each one's, like, rebranded. It's like, oh, the Jurassic tour.

And it's like the over the hill tour. Like this. We're still not dead tour. Yeah, I'd rather be over the hill than buried under it. Right, guys?

Yeah, exactly. Closing time.

Ethan Nestor
Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was. Thanks for leaking. Fantastic. Oh, man, thank you so much.

MatPat
We leaked all over this place, and I couldn't be happier. Now, Matt, there is one final question. Yes. And, Sean, you said that you wanted to ask this question. Matt, have you ever shit yourself?

Jacksepticeye
That's how we started our podcast is me sharing a very embarrassing shit story. So just, you know, everyone.

MatPat
Yes. Yes, I have. And it was. And actually, it was. I.

Here, I'll. I can't tell the full story just because there's certain privacy things I have to follow through. But it was part of. It happened as part of filming the final theory.

Jacksepticeye
Drop it. And quick. End the episode here. People have to theorize. Yeah, theorize about that.

MatPat
In what scene of the final theory am I? Just, you know, heavy loaded. But that's just a theory. A shit theory. A lot of them have been, honestly, brain leak.

Advertiser
A lot of them have been, honestly, brain leak.

Ethan Nestor
A lot of them have been, honestly, brain leak.

MatPat
A lot of them have been, honestly, brain leak.

MATPAT Talks About Retirement

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1: Introduction

2: Personal Shifts

3: The Impact of YouTube

4: Future Plans

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