Boss Talks: Episode 82 with Libby Patton

This episode features Libby Patton discussing her experiences and strategies in community management within student housing.

1. Student housing management requires creativity and adaptability, especially in small college towns.
2. Building community is crucial in student housing to enhance the living experience and maintain property respect.
3. The importance of being involved in housing associations to influence housing policy and network with peers.
4. The role of property management in advocating for sensible housing policies that consider economic realities.
5. Personal anecdotes from Patton show the intersection of professional and personal life in community management.

1: Introduction

Host Evan Happel introduces the podcast and guest Libby Patton, setting the stage for a discussion on student housing management. Evan Happel: "Welcome to Boss Talks, where we delve into the multifaceted world of property management."

2: Building Community in Student Housing

Patton discusses the strategies for building a vibrant community in student housing, emphasizing the importance of regular events and interactions. Libby Patton: "In student housing, building community is probably the most important thing I do to enhance the living experience."

3: Challenges of Property Management

Discussion on the challenges faced during the pandemic, transitioning to student housing, and the uniqueness of managing such properties. Libby Patton: "Transitioning to student housing presented unique challenges, especially with the onset of the pandemic."

4: Advocacy and Association Involvement

Patton explains her involvement in local housing associations and the importance of advocacy in housing policy. Libby Patton: "Being active in housing associations allows us to influence policies that directly affect our community."

5: Concluding Thoughts

The episode wraps up with Patton sharing insights on the future of housing policy and the importance of community involvement. Libby Patton: "It's essential to stay involved and educated on housing issues to effectively manage and advocate for our communities."

1. Engage Regularly: Regular community events are key to building rapport and a sense of belonging among residents.
2. Network Actively: Participation in housing associations can provide valuable insights and influence over housing policies.
3. Adapt to Challenges: Flexibility in management strategies is crucial, especially in unforeseen circumstances like a pandemic.
4. Advocate for Policies: Engage in meaningful advocacy to ensure housing policies benefit both the community and the industry.
5. Educate and Inform: Keep both staff and residents informed about changes in housing regulations and community standards.

Throughout the episode, they delve into the unique challenges and strategies involved in managing a college town property, particularly in a remote location. Libby shares her multifaceted experience pursuing a master's in organizational leadership and her role as the sole student housing manager in her company's portfolio.

Emphasizing the importance of building community through events and activities, Libby discusses how her property fosters connections among students to enhance their university experience. Additionally, the conversation touches on the impact of COVID-19, Libby's personal journey of adopting siblings, her involvement in the Washington Multifamily Housing Association (WMFHA), and her insights into property management's legislative and economic aspects. The episode also explores the burgeoning trend of shared living spaces for recent graduates and the broader implications of housing policies on the property management sector.

People

Libby Patton, Evan Happel

Companies

Rockwood Property Management

Books

The Invisible String (mentioned as a recommendation)

Guest Name(s):

Libby Patton

Content Warnings:

None

Evan Happel

Hello, and welcome to Boss Talks, a weekly podcast where we chat with the bosses of the multifamily industry. Who are these bosses? They might be a manager of many, a leader with no title or just passionate about what they do. Join our host, Evan Happel, director of marketing at community boss, as he talks with this week's guest. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Boss Talks.

Libby Patton

I'm your host, Evan Happel with community boss, and I have a great show for you today, episode 82 with Libby Patton. She is a community manager with Rockwood Property Management out of Cheney, Washington, in student housing. And when I say student housing, I'm talking your stereotypical small college town where that is it. You are a college town. There's nothing else there surrounding it.

It is farmland. It is nothing else. It is a college town. So if you're going to school or if you live there, you better like your college students, because that is what you get there. Libby is living in breathing college.

She's also going to school. So she's literally living in breathing college. She's getting her master's in organizational leadership, and she's got a lot of interests in really from the ground up. Learn student housing, because she is the only student student housing property in the portfolio of Rockwood property Management and has a lot to share. And even though she's in the middle of nowhere in Washington, she's made connections all across the state of Washington.

She's very active in the Woomfa, our Washington multifamily housing association. Thank you, Sloan and others that are joining us from Woomfa, and we're going to get right into it. But before I do, I'm Evan. Happily. I'm with community boss.

We have a great property management software solution that helps you manage your physical spaces. So if you have any need to do with your parking, your amenities, some mapping, making some ancillary income, if you want to make it a better experience for your residents, check us out. Let me know that you have interest, and I would love to point you in the right direction. But today, talking to Libby, she's joining us from her Casa, the children's bedroom, I believe you said. Yes, I'm in my son's bedroom.

I've been at home this whole week because my daughter has RSV, and so this is the only quiet place in my house where I can close and lock the door. So my daughter in the other room. Yes. Oh, and besides, and I'm sorry, that's what you're going through this week, and I hope your daughter's getting better. But she's very cabin fevered as of today, so that means that she's feeling better.

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. I hope you're at the end of it.

Libby Patton

I know back when we talked over the weekend, you were like, oh, my gosh, of course this is happening and I know it. Exactly what you're going through. I have kids as well, and it seems like you have a gauntlet of sickness. As soon as it happens, it's on for two months, so it's. It's never ending.

And it. I sympathize. So I'm sorry that's what you're going through. So, yeah, you guys don't get to see my office this week as I had intended, but you can look at the reading selection behind me. Any good recommendations in the children's literature?

We got the Disney Animals book right here and then this book, the invisible String. If you are a foster or adoptive parent, or even maybe someone that might share custody of your kids, it's a really good tool. It talks about how everyone is connected by an invisible string in their hearts. Well, that sounds really good. That's a great recommendation.

Libby Patton

Thanks for doing that. And I know you are a mom. I adopted two siblings. They're full siblings from foster care. I'm thankful for people like you that have decided to go that route because it is so needed and so many children that need loving homes.

So that's really great that you guys decided to go that route. It's not for the faint of heart. The thing that we like to throw around in our community is it's the best, hardest thing that we ever did. Foster kids are hard. They come with a lot.

And not all of that's your fault, but you still have to deal with it and love them through all of it. Anyway, we're done. But the two that I adopted are kids number eleven and twelve that I had at my house through my time as. So not all at the same time. We only max out at two at once, but yeah, eleven and twelve.

And shout out to Wimpa, who does their holiday giving on the west side and the east side. They raise money for foster care organizations and I think it's amazing. Yeah, no, it is great. Awesome. Thank you for sharing a little bit about that.

Libby Patton

I know that there's probably other people out there that do the same, so they. They would probably love to hear that talked about, for sure. Yeah. All right. Before we get into anything else, when it comes to student housing and your story, there's just a few questions I like to ask to get going.

So the first question is, when it comes to building community in a social sense, how do you go about that? This is my favorite question. Did you know that I am in a class right now for my master's program called community leadership? And it's literally all about the aspects of how you build community. At my property, we build community through typical things, but at looks a little bit different in student housing.

I think at most properties, we're used to doing resident events, whether that's quarterly or monthly or whatever it is that you do. And student housing, it's probably the most important thing that I do to build the community. At our property. We're off campus housing, but we're only one block from the university. And the reality is that students and parents have an idea in their head of what college looks like and what that experience is.

And it involves making connections with other people, learning different walks of life, also education. But there's a whole experience around going to college. And the people that are going to college away from home are seeking that experience. And so we do events monthly. Sometimes they're bigger than others.

This Friday, we're doing red bull italian soda day. It's just a drop in for a few hours by our snack bar, where we're making italian sodas. We have non caffeine and sugar free options for people if they want them. We're approaching finals for winter quarter, and so we just thought, let's energize. Let's do something fun.

Let's give everyone a break. Again, it's. This one's just a drop in event. They just come by, pick up their drink, maybe chat a little bit, and then, you know, go about their day. But we do bigger events, too.

Right after everyone moves in, we do a big welcome thing looks different depending on if you're in the middle of COVID or not. But we've done resident bingo, where they have to go find people that the rules are they can't find use themselves or anybody inside of their apartment, and they have to go find people that have the same major as them or from a different state or all those kinds of things. And then the big one that we do, and this was really successful last year. Last year was the first year that we didn't really have social distancing restrictions on us in terms of making places where we could gather. And so we planned this huge community block party.

We called it the block party. We gave away Xbox and a mini fridge and all kinds of stuff. We had a big cookout. There was games. We cornhole, like, all this stuff where they could win tickets for the prizes and things like that.

But it's probably our most successful event. It really gives people a chance to get outside, take a break, and just really get to know each other, I think especially in the winter and coming out of winter in Cheney, everyone's hibernated. And so we do this as a way to welcome spring, get the stress off, that kind of stuff. So that's. That's the biggest thing that we do to build community at our property.

Libby Patton

That's great. Yeah. And like you said, when it comes to students and them being probably not freshmen in your case, but still, this is probably their first time, like, living in an apartment, basically, and being solo and not being dependent on the university's food and all that stuff. And so they need to be connected. Not to mention, I'm sure it helps a great deal in keeping a little bit of control when it comes to how they treat your community, correct?

Yeah. When we plan these events, we're sending the message to them that we care about them, that we care about the property, we care about the overall experience, and that comes out in other things, too. And if they know that we care, then they care. So we get. We don't get.

I don't have a pool. Pool furniture thrown in the bottom of the pool. Or I have a courtyard. Our courtyard furniture stays where it is all summer like it's supposed to. We have community laundry rooms.

I've got ten laundry rooms. And they get used. But by doing this, it helps them know that we're caring about their well being, and so they, in turn, feed it back to us. Yeah, no, that's good. And it's true in most communities, but especially in student.

Libby Patton

I can only imagine the more you pour into them, they're going to reciprocate. Care for the community. So my next question is, when it comes to hospitality, how is it that you like to do that? When it comes to having people over at your home sharing a meal, what's your go to meal for that? My go to meal, I.

I love to cook, so I actually switch this up every so often, but I tend to gravitate towards, like, level crock pot type things. And so my go to is I make a really good white bean chicken chili. That's what I make for everybody. White bean chicken chili. All right.

Libby Patton

All right. That sounds good. Nice. And is there anything special you do from a, like, dessert standpoint when you have people over? That's a good question.

I'm not a huge dessert person, so I tend to not do. Unless if I am gonna do dessert, I usually just buy it. I don't make it that much. My daughter, though, has informed me that I have to make a unicorn cake for her birthday next month, though. So that's a whole new thing that I have to learn how to do, but.

Libby Patton

All right. I'm sure there's a pan for that. Yeah, we're gonna figure it out. I'll watch a few TikTok videos. There you go.

Awesome. All right. And then final question. When it comes to your caffeinated beverage of choice, what is your go to? I go to Starbucks every single day.

I cannot function without Starbucks, so I. But I stick with their seasonal drinks. So in winter, I was drinking the pistachio latte. They've switched to their spring drinks, so now I'm drinking the lavender latte. It's marketed with oat milk, but I drink regular milk.

But the rule for caffeine is it has to be coffee, and I never drink hot coffee. It's always iced coffee, even when it's three degrees outside and snowing and cheney. So you're an iced coffee person? Yep. Okay.

Libby Patton

Do you like cold brew in those beverages? Yeah, if I ever do make coffee at home, I'm always cold brewing it the night before. Nice. Yeah. But honestly, I'm not too picky.

As long as it's coffee, and as long as it's cold, I will drink it. Nice. And it looks like we have some votes that you bring your chicken chili over to the other side of the mountains to Chili cook off. Yeah, I've heard of that. So we actually used to do.

At the last property I worked at with Rockwood, we used to do a chili cook off just as a property event where residents could enter. We did it around Halloween time, and I'd always enter my chicken chili, and I wasn't allowed to win, but I would win, and so we had to. The winner was actually second place place. So. Nice.

Libby Patton

Bring it on over. Make the trip. Okay. I'll do it. Let my crock pot and everything, and I'll get it all the way over.

Heck, yeah. It's October, I think, right around Halloween time, so. Yep, bring it on over. All right. Thanks for answering those questions.

And now we're going to get right into it. So, when it comes to your story working in property management, you went to college. Economics, I believe, is what you studied. Yeah. And then you graduated, and then what happened?

Yeah. So we were talking a little bit about this beforehand. First of all, I did go to college, and I know that we talk about in this industry about how you don't have to go to college to be a property manager. You absolutely don't. It was not in my train of thought that I was going to work in property management when I was going, but honestly, I don't think I had a train of thought about what I was going to do.

I picked business and then somehow ended up in economic because I could get it done faster than I could the general business degree, and there wasn't really a plan. And really I did it because business seemed like it would fit a lot of things as I figured out what I was doing. And I didn't do what you should do when you're in college and get internships and make connections and network. I didn't do any of that. I just had a panic moment in May.

I was graduating the second week of June and I realized I don't have a job. I don't know what I'm gonna. And like most people, I did end up falling into property management. But the first thing I did is I worked in insurance. I was a claims adjuster for a pretty large insurance company, and that job was great in terms of experience learning customer service and phone skills and that kind of stuff.

But it was a lot of stress and it was not for me, still work in business, obviously, but I work for kind of a medium sized to smaller property management company, high powered conglomerate corporate America. That's not who I am. I have tattoos that I was having to cover up and piercing all this stuff, and it's just not me. So I worked there for a year and then decided that I was going to move on. Then about the time I decided I was moving on, I was looking through the job ads and there was a company that was a startup local to Spokane, which is just outside of Cheney.

I actually live in Spokane and I had wanted to work for, I had seen them at job fairs and stuff like that on campus, and I had wanted to work for them originally, but I really didn't have any job experience or anything. So they had a job open up. I seemed like I could get it. I applied for it and I got it. They were, at the time the Spokane Cinderella story startup.

They functioned in the e commerce sector. It was a business that started out of to like a boyfriend and girlfriend that ended up getting married, that were MBA students at Gonzaga University that did this as their MBA project and then just kept running with it. Turned into a really successful multi million dollar company and I wanted to work for them, so I did. I started there only a couple weeks after I left the insurance company and I had my 90 day review. And then three days after that, they announced that they had been acquired.

And then 90 days after that, 8% of us lost our jobs. And I was short guy on the totem pole there. That actually, that was hard for me. I thought that was my, I thought that's what I was doing. Like, I was going to be in this frontline innovation, e commerce, Amazon Marketplace world.

And it didn't work out that way. And I tried to apply for other similar companies after that, but I just didn't have the job experience. And so I wasn't even getting interviews. I ended up getting from there, ended up getting hired through a temp agency as a legal assistant. And that I knew that wasn't going to be my permanent job.

I knew that going into it, that the people that hired me knew that. But it actually turned out to be a lot more valuable than I expected it to be. The attorney that I was working for worked in landlord tenant law, worked in personal injury, so I could use my insurance background for that. But there was a lot of research, a lot of legal research that I was doing. But I also did all the invoicing and all that kind of stuff.

And I knew that wasn't my permanent job. And they did offer me the job permanently outside of the temp agency. I actually did gain quite a bit from that position. And then that's how I ended up into property management. I only got about 30 hours a week working at that job.

Attorneys don't like to work Fridays unless they're in court and then have to, you know. And so I needed, I was on unemployment from the other company and I was getting a little bit of it still because I got a 30 hours per week job from a 40 hours per week job. And so I was required to apply for these jobs. I didn't really want a second job, but I was required to apply for them. So I did.

And I actually saw an ad for a part time weekend leasing agent with Rockwood and I looked at it for two weeks without applying because I just thought, oh, if I apply, I think they're going to interview me. And then I meant to have two jobs, but then I didn't have anywhere to apply to that week. And so I just thought, all right, here we go. And yeah, sure enough, they interviewed me. Once I learned a little bit more about it, I was like, oh, actually, I think I actually want this job.

And I accepted the job. And I worked part time there and at the attorney's office for about six months, and then decided that it was time for me to not have two jobs and not be everywhere all at once. And I really liked my leasing agent job. So I had started applying for full time leasing jobs. There wasn't one available at Rockwood.

Interviewing, working for competitors, that kind of stuff. And then one day, I was at my attorney office job, and my manager at the property that I was working at called me and said, hey, if we had a full time leasing agent position Monday through Friday, would you take it? And I said, tell me more. Yes. And so it was at a different property, one that I hadn't been at before, but I took it.

And then here we are now. That's awesome. And you went from doing that to eventually landing in the community. You are. Which was because you started out in the conventional space, right?

Yeah. So part time leasing agent, I was working at a property called Bitterroot Lodge, which is out in Liberty Lake, Washington, on the other side of Spokane, outside of Spokane, close to Idaho. And then the full time job I got was at Selkirk Lodge, which is on the north side of Spokane. Actually almost not even in Spokane that way, for some reason, I'm going all around the outskirts boot camp. And then that was a smaller property.

We had 96 front door. It was also one of the oldest properties in our portfolio. Our company builds properties and then manages them. And so they had built this one. It was one of the first one.

Wasn't the first one, but the ones before it, they did not have anymore. And so then that property sold in December of 2019. And so then that's how I came over to the Benjamin was coming on. They offered me the opportunity to stay with Rockwood instead of going to the new management company. I did interview with the new management company, and I just felt Rockwood was it for me.

I wanted to stay with Rockwood. I liked the company. And so I took on the new challenge of student housing. Like you said, nobody in our company had ever done student housing before. And so it was all new.

So I came over, I worked in our corporate office for a few months, and then I came over in May of 2020 to finish up, join lease up team, and get us open. Wow. So you did it in the most interesting timing of 2020, when not that many people were even going to on site, like doing school at the actual university. So that must have been interesting as an experience. Yeah.

The conversation in December 2019 was, we've got this opportunity. There's this great new property we'd love to have you take a look, come hang out at football games with us. Here's all of our plans. And then it all fell apart. It didn't look the way that we thought it was going to look.

When it was time to cut the ribbon and open and move everybody in, we thought we were going to move in 280 people while at once. That's not what happened. But we just had to make it work like everybody else had to make it work. And, yeah, it was interesting. Eastern Washington University had removed their live on campus requirement because they were only doing single occupancy in the dorm.

So that helped us. But they also had moved all of their classes to 100% remote. And so that was not helpful because there was no real reason to come to Cheney. And like you said, cheney's not that exciting if school is not going on. And, yeah, that was a challenge.

But we did get. We did okay. We got enough people there. The unexpected effect of that was that we did get freshmen that way because there wasn't space on campus. They wanted to be in person.

We had class of 2020 who didn't have a high school graduation. They didn't have a prom. They didn't have any of that. Right now they're going to college looking for some sort of people experience. So we had to get creative on what events looked like, what building community looked like.

But I think we did a good job of that today in 2024, I have people that live at the property that have lived there since 2020, which is not pretty much unheard of in student housing. That is, I can't take all the credit for it. COVID helped us in that situation. It made it. We got the extension longer than some other properties do, but we've been able to average a 35% to 45% renewal rate every year since then, partly because that we were able to get some people that we normally wouldn't have gotten.

But it's pretty good. But yeah, and it was an interesting experience not knowing anything about student housing, coming from conventional, trying to apply what I knew from conventional to student, it doesn't always apply. And then also dealing with COVID and all the stuff that happens with that, trying to get permanent financing when you can't fill the building because there's nobody to fill it. Yeah. So does that mean you're about to have a more typical turn in the next year or so?

I thought that's what it would mean. And when I was being right, the budget last November and December, I was project making that assumption that we were going to see a mass exodus of original tenants. It's not. We still renewed about 40% so far this year and 39% renewal, and we're pre leased at 45% right now. Yeah, I thought that we were going to see a bigger exodus than we were then.

We did. Some of those original residents, though, I've heard there are people that are from outside of the area, and they've told us, I think I'm going to stay in the Spokane area for my career, whatever that is, and I like living here, so I guess I just might as well keep doing it. A lot of them are. A lot of them have graduated, but housing is expensive in Spokane and it's been all of Washington. It's expensive everywhere.

But in student housing, you get the benefit of having a roommate, essentially sharing your rent without the hassle of being on the exact same lease. And so when they don't pay their rent, you don't have to worry about it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that is nice. And at our property, everything's included Wifi.

We have fiber, wifi, all electricity. So they have one housing bill and they don't have to add. So do you guys furnish them, too? Yeah, yeah, they're furnished, too. So it's still.

What I didn't realize is that it's a good transition place for the first year after I graduated. I'm not established in my career yet. I'm not making the wage that I will be making soon. I need to get some exposure, but now I don't have to spend money on furniture or utilities or wifi, or I can have a lower rent cost without kind of the hassle, like the dreaded roommate situation. You make a good point that maybe they need to make a few more of these communities not necessarily targeted at students, but immediate graduates, 100%.

I have a handful of residents that have never been students, but just chose to live at our property because it fit their price point. It fit the. They didn't have to move a lot of stuff. It was easy for them. And they don't fit the general idea of what you think of people that live there, but they still love it and they renew year after year.

Libby Patton

That's an interesting idea, because I know there's a few of these shared living type communities that are geared towards non college students, but they're not that common. Right. So they're just a way to cut the cost a little bit for people though. Yeah, they're not that common. And I will tell you that a lot of the conversations when they see, oh, two bedroom apartment for 680, they're like, oh, that's great.

And then they realize it's per bedroom. Okay. So it makes a little bit more sense. Right. But at first, they're kind of, I don't know.

I'm an adult. I don't want to live with other people. Like, whatever. Then they go search around, and then they go, you know what? Maybe this is the option that I need to go with.

And then they find out that it actually works really well for them. Yeah, no, I know. When I was straight out of college, I went and got an apartment by myself and eventually had a roommate, but for a while, I was paying the whole rent by myself, and it's a lot of money out the gate. When you're. You're immediately out of college, you're not making a great deal unless you happen to land a great salary or something.

Degree. Yeah, exactly. Degree. You're gonna be fine. But other than that, no, you've got to get some work experience.

You got to work up to that, like, median wage that people with whatever degree it is get, you know? Yeah, but, yeah, even in Spokane, one bedroom is $1,300 a month, and that usually doesn't include electricity or Internet or water or any of the trash or any of that stuff. Right. Careful telling people that, though. People are going to start moving to Spokane.

Libby Patton

That's, like, cheap. I know it's cheap compared to Washington, but historically, that's super expensive for Spokane. I moved to Spokane in 2010, and I had a two bedroom. I would say I lived at a class B property. I mean, like a strong b.

And I had a two bedroom, one bathroom apartment for $595 a month. That was the whole apartment. That doesn't exist anymore over here, and it certainly doesn't exist in western Washington. Looks like the other Libby who was on boss talks, too. She wants to join you over there because she just said pax bags.

Yeah, yeah. 1300 for a one bedroom. Yeah, yeah. You're doing some great things over there. In fact, people are bringing it up in the chat.

Libby Patton

Tricia and others are highlighting the fact that you are an award winning property with the Emerald awards for Woomfa. And so how did you guys win? What is it that made you a winner in that regard? I actually don't know how we went, so I applied. Yeah, we applied.

So I worked for Rockwood for seven years. In that seven year, I think the I've only in terms of Emerald awards on eastern Washington, I've only not been at two of them. The first two, the rest of them I've been at, and I've pretty much been nominated in a category every single time. But last year was the first time that we won, not the Rockwood won, but the first time that I was in a category and I actually won and made it past the finals. Yeah.

The Benjamin lofts for eastern Washington, one community of the year. And yeah, we applied. I did. Other properties in our portfolio have won that before. We were up for new development of the year the, the previous cycle and did not win.

And I'll be honest, I feel like I did the same thing in terms of presenting our property, getting ready, writing, writing the things. But I think that it was just the right time and the right opportunity and it was great that I think a lot of times people think of student housing and they just think of a really basic bare minimum. We get people in, get people out. It works for the purpose that it's trying to exist for, and that's not what we do at the Benjamin, we built a really nice mid rise luxury student housing community. We built it in the same style that our other properties are, that are conventional.

And so it's nice for something like student housing, something like that to get recognized on that level. Absolutely. And from my experience, you're very involved in what's going on at Woomfa and on Easter east side in, in Spokane. And just Woomfa's kind of eastern because we kind of function in the west and east. But you're very involved.

Libby Patton

But you're, you're not close, but you choose to insert yourself and get involved and get educated. And you're in the first cohort of. Kerry Anderson emerging leaders program. Yes. The first year that they've done it.

So yeah, it's the inaugural cohort. Yeah. Which is fantastic and good job in getting selected and all the things. And I know that you're actually paired with Sloan Sir Bonna, which is fantastic. And so what's your bit, your experience been so far, really?

I think I hear a lot of people saying you're so involved in ones that I don't feel like I am. I feel like I'm like a normal amount of involved in Wimpa, but I really actually think that program is the reason why it seems like I'm so involved and I am now. It was, my understanding is that I was the only person from eastern Washington that applied for the program, even though it was open to everyone in the state. And then Sloan wanted me to make it clear that I was not selected because I was in eastern Washington, but I was selected on my own merits. But it's been great.

So it's a total of three sort of in person emerging leaders workshop sessions at the Wimfa office. We've done. We did the first one in January. There's another one in May, and then the last one is in November. There's other stuff that we're doing throughout the year besides those workshops.

But like you said, it's one side and the other side, and not a lot of meat in the middle, it seems. And it's been a really good opportunity. I've met so many people on the west side that I never would have met before, like the other Libby. I've never met anybody with my same first name. So that's the thing.

There's power in networking, and I think a lot of people think of networking as, oh, I'm just gonna put on a pretty face, and I'm going to make these connections. So then that way, when I apply for a job at this company, I'll get it. But that's not what it is. There's power in learning from other people. Not everybody has the same experience.

Everyone has different points of view. And just building that tribe of people that we're all doing this industry is hard. It's not easy. There's days that it's easy, and there's days that it's fun, but there's a lot of days where it's stressful and you feel like you can't get through your entire to do list. You have to reprioritize throughout the day, and somebody comes in your office and yells at you and the whole thing.

And so I think the program, yes, it's great to learn all of these aspects of leadership and be supported in our leadership journey. The fact that it's a program at all is, I think, one of the biggest benefits is just creating that opportunity to make those connections. Yeah, absolutely. And I know that you also visited Olympia and were there for the day on the Hill. So what was that experience like?

That was also part of the emerging Leaders program. Everyone from emerging leaders was there, but there were only four of us from eastern Washington of me and emerging leaders. Amanda Gunn, who was on this show, she's my boss, and then a couple other people from other companies, not Rockwood. And my understanding is it is the first time that they've really had an eastern Washington presence on that Wympha has had it. And so we were able to talk to eastern Washington senators and representatives, and not that they haven't been spoken to before, but we have more power in that conversation.

We can say, I live in Spokane. I work in Cheney. I am your constituent. You need to listen to me, obviously. Nice way, but it carries more weight than someone saying, I'm with the Washington Multifamily Housing association.

We represent this many. I know you're in eastern Washington and we're over here, but we just want to tell you it's, it's more valuable for them, our thoughts and our opinions and what we're asking them to do is a lot more valuable because they're hearing for number one people that vote for them. But even in Cheney, I don't live in Cheney, but I operate in Cheney. And so the representatives and the senators there, their decisions affect how I operate. And so being able to tell them, like, and give them real world examples of things in their area that they can relate to, I think was really helpful.

Libby Patton

Absolutely. And what would you say to people that maybe aren't involved? Because I know Woomfa is really trying to push more involvement on the advocate part of being involved in Woomfa, and they're doing a great job. And I've gotten more involved. I'm actually part of the, both the membership committee and also the supplier committee, thinking of ways how can we get more engaged.

So what have you learned, and what would you say to people that are in your same role as to why they should care about being involved in the government side of things? I want to paraphrase something that I heard from Representative Jenny Graham when we were at day on the Hill, because she mentioned the fact that this was the first time, once I had over 100 people, there were historically, that has not been the turnout. They haven't had people there. And I think a lot of times people think that, I'm just gonna go talk to this person. I don't know if they're gonna listen to me.

I'm just one person. But that's the point, is you just are one person, and they are just one person. They're just a normal person. Representative Jenny Graham said to us, and she, it was an easier conversation. She aligns on our side of the conversation.

So it was a lot of thank you for your support. But she said, the other side, however you want to think about that, is really loud. They are, they, by nature, are good at grassroots organizing. They're good at coming together and being the loudest voice and protesting and being visible and she said this session was really the first time that she, in the hearings, they hear both sides, but to look at the room and see who's showing up for both sides, she said this was the first time that it was really a lot more even. And in her words, she said there was a vibe change.

The vibe had changed. And that's important. Even if you're not comfortable public speaking or you're not comfortable doing persuasive speaking or anything like that, purely showing up shows that it's important to you and that it should be important to them. And if you have 300 people on the other side of the aisle that are really good at community organizing, we have to do that on the other side, too. Yeah.

Libby Patton

And honestly, what I'd say is we have representation that was beyond, like, I'm the owner of a company. We had people that just work within the industry. And so from what I observe is I think that that means you're a peer of the other side. Right. Instead of a owner talking down, quote unquote, to just somebody that's just trying to get housing, you're actually a person.

I also need housing, but I also work in this industry. And from my perspective, if we do XYZ, it actually hurts you and me. Absolutely. That's 100%. I'm a renter.

I live, and we're in my apartment right now. And so it's great to say rent stabilization, personally may help my pocketbook in the short run in terms of how much I pay in rent every month. But on the flip side, it might hurt my pocketbook because, yes, I'm a housing provider, but this is my job. The owners and the investors, yes, they're operating in the housing industry. They're housing people.

They're doing whatever, but they're creating jobs and they're maintaining jobs and they're creating job security. I'm a manager, and so I hire other people, and that's job security for them. But really, when we start talking about controlling costs, that you're rising costs and controlling prices, something's going to have to get somewhere. And so to be able to say, it would be great if my rent bill doesn't go, my rent bill goes up, just everybody else's nice. Just because I'm a property manager doesn't change anything.

So, yeah, it would be great to pay a little bit less per month, but I also understand that means that I could lose my job, my hours could get cut, my wage could get. Dropped, and quality of housing goes down. Yeah. And then, yeah, I live in a really nice place. I live in a really nice apartment.

I want it to stay nice, but I know that in order to do that, it costs money, and so. Well, and you are an economics major. What is the law of supply and demand? Yeah, that's my biggest argument. I'm not to get too political here, but I tend to be pretty left, which is not common on this side of the state, a lot of social issues.

And I do think that housing is a human right. I agree with the other side of the. I need more, which is why I think we need more. Exactly. And, you know, I can prove in all kinds of, like, very complicated mathematical models of how this isn't going to serve the purpose.

It fixes it for the person that has a house. It doesn't fix it for the person that doesn't have a house. In fact, it makes it worse. There's case studies across the country, but I can prove that we don't have to be talking about housing. We can just talk about widgets and talk about how price ceilings and price floors and government intervention and how that affects the market.

And that was my approach on Capitol Hill. Look, I have a degree in economics. I graduated with honors. I'm not going to go through the complicated math. That would be boring and nobody would like it and nobody would listen to me.

But the reality is, whenever you go in and arbitrarily put a price floor or a price ceiling, the market doesn't behave the way that it should. I told you that a one bedroom is $1,300.02 years ago, a one bedroom was $1,600 here. And so to me, that's evidence that the market is actually working. As we've been able to increase supply, the prices have trended downward. Unfortunately, the trend isn't happening as quickly as some people would like it to be.

But that's just the way it is. Not to get too econ technical here, but there's two schools of thought in economics. You've got freshwater economists, saltwater economists, keynesian economists, traditional economists, and the big difference is that keynesian economists believe that market adjustments are slow. And in order for those, and to speed that up in the interest of whatever it is, higher wages, lower cost, whatever it is, there needs to be a government intervention to recalibrate the market. That's the argument.

My argument is I think that the adjustments are slow. It takes a while to build multifamily housing. It takes a while to build one single house. And yes, it is going to be slow, but to me, the government intervention isn't putting a price ceiling or price floor. The government intervention is removing the red tape, making it easier to bring that supply on.

Whether that's through building condos, building higher density rentals, even by the bed rentals, that. The footprint of my property is actually pretty small compared to other properties. It's like one block. It's not big at all. But I have 280 residents.

Libby Patton

And when it comes to building anything, it has to make sense to the person building it. So if you don't make it advantageous or like I at the end of this, my risk is minimized and I will make a profit. They aren't going to. Yeah, I was sending email communications to legislators using form emails, sending my own emails, trying to speak to the economics of it. And I did get a reply from a senator, a western Washington senator who is a Democrat, and he said it very.

I like the way that he said it. He said that there are millions of dollars play from out of state investors across the country. And when you enact something like rent stabilization, it writes Washington off from that. And so now it's a choice. They can go anywhere in the whole country.

Demand is high in Washington, a responsible investor will go for demand is high. But now if they find out that they can't maximize their investment, I mean, that everyone wants to maximize an investment, so they're going to go where they can maximize the investment. If you're going to tell me you could sell my car for $5,000, but you're only allowed to sell it for $4,000, nobody's going to do that. They're just going to wait until they're allowed to sell it for $5,000. Yeah.

Libby Patton

And it's assuming that there, it's wash or any state is viewing that this is the only option, this is the only place where these people that build can build. No, they can go wherever they want. They can go anywhere they want. And I agree. I think that's part of it, is they're like, if we do this, you're still going to build.

No, we might not. My company, where we're at, like I said, we're construct. We build them. We're right next to the Idaho border. I can be in Idaho in 30 minutes.

Our corporate office, you can be in Idaho. We're not going to lose as an organization. We're probably not going to lose out like some other organizations, but we're also going to take all of the money that we would have been giving to contractors, subcontractors, property taxes, all that stuff, and put it in another state now. Yeah. Because you could literally just shift to Idaho.

Yeah. And we have, we don't have rentals there, but, and like I said, we're charged, so we build condos for sale and house single family houses, master plan communities. And really the most recent projects that have come online have been in Idaho because of the regulation and the fact that we're not able to make the projects. Pencil out over here. Interesting.

Libby Patton

I didn't intend to get so into the side of things, but I think it's very interesting and I think very beneficial to people that work in property management, especially at the community level, because so many people write it off. Like, why would I get involved, why matter to me and my job as to why I would be involved in politics when it comes to property management? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I could, I literally could talk about economics and price theory for like forever, so.

Well, I guess maybe we should. You're with Sloan, so maybe you need to set up some, and Jason's watching, so maybe we need to tag you for some classes or something. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see.

Like I said, I could talk about it for forever. I do talk about it for forever with my team. They're a little bit probably. Okay, we get it. Prices are what they are.

I understand. Thank you for answering my question. I think be careful, you're going to become like an NA spokesperson for the property management side of things. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll advocate next year.

But we're at 1257 right now. We didn't even get to talk about the fact. This is just one thing that I'm passionate about. I talk social media, I do student really to go back to. It's often an industry that people fall into.

Nobody when they're a little kid is like, when I grow up, I want to be a landlord. Nobody says that or I'm gonna be. Nobody does. But it's surprising how much of a good fit it was for me and a good fit that it is for a lot of people. You don't really realize how much goes into it it until you're doing it.

And then, and there's so many avenues that you can go down. Like, I'm a property manager. Right. But the other Libby, she's a hiring manager. She works in recruiting the housing associations, do other things.

People do. Education. There's so much that you can do in this industry. Yeah, absolutely. We can still talk about some of the other stuff when it comes to social media, I know that you've done some stuff personally on the side with leasing Leah, who also was a person that was on boss talks.

Libby Patton

She was actually my 6th guest. This is almost two years ago, back in April of 20. No, it was July, June, right before apartment wise of 2021. I don't even remember 22, I think. But yes, I know you've done some work with her, and I know she's a fan of yours.

So what is your passion around social media? I love social media, and I don't really know why, to be totally honest. I mean, it is the, it's not easy, and I think a lot of people go into it thinking that it's just like a thing that you can spend five or ten minutes on every day or maybe 30 minutes a week or something like that. But to really have a well developed social media strategy, you have to put some time into it. You have to be intentional.

But it is the cheapest form of advertising that you can do podcasts, too, but it's the cheapest podcast. Yeah. At a property level, I really feel if you're not doing social media, and again, you don't have to be an expert to start at it, you learn it as you go. I definitely was not an expert in it when I started doing it, but the just start it, because if you're not doing social media in any capacity or you haven't made it a priority, you're leaving money on the table. It doesn't cost you, almost cost you nothing to do it.

You might purchase subscriptions to stock photos or graphic design or something like that, but you can do it without that. And really, it's zero cost advertising and your acquisition and what you get out of it, I don't know the numbers, but you get a lot out of it for virtually no cost. Have you dipped your toe in the, was it influencer stuff? I know about it a little bit. I'm not huge on the influencer side of things.

I probably should be a little bit more. Believe it or not, I'm actually not real comfortable in front of a camera. But yeah, I know a little bit, but not as much as I probably should. If you want to just talk about the class that you're about to do on social media and plug that for. Eastern Washington, con East is April 10.

There are still tickets available. You don't have to be a Wympha member to join or purchase a ticket. It's a great event to learn what Wympha is all about and the type of education and training that they offer. The class that I am teaching is one of many, but the title of it is give your social media presence a boost. And it's really like social media basics 101 for property management.

We'll go over best practices, how to design in a high level, how to design a social media strategy for your property, and then we might play a little game at the end. Awesome. It's been a great episode. I really appreciate you being on with me, Libby, and keep up the good work and all you're doing over in Cheney. And I just really appreciate you being on and representing the east side.

Libby Patton

And really, I hope other people see you being on here and get encouraged that they too can be on boss talks because this is a platform for everybody. And I really do appreciate you being on as a community manager in a small town college town representing student housing professional because I know that also is semi rare. And so I hope more and more people get involved from that side of the business as well. So thank you so much, Libby, for being here today. And I appreciate you just sharing your perspective on the politics and the involvement and all that because it's all super, super important.

Join us next week we are going to have another Washington based guest, another person involved in Woomfa as we lead into Edcon here on the west side of the state. We are actually going to have Katie from one up floors on the show stick around next week to or check it out next week and we'll get more into all things Woofa. And she's also an emerging leader, actually a mentor to someone for that program that's new this year. So super exciting to have her as well. So thanks again, everybody for watching here in the state of Washington and all across the country and some of our Woomfa people over in Washington, DC, the other Washington advocating for us.

We appreciate you and thank you for joining us today. So see you guys later. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Boss Talks podcast. If you would like to be a guest on the show, please reach out via email@infocommunityboss.com dot. If you enjoyed the show, be sure to like, share and follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Evan Happel

You can also watch the podcast live every Wednesday at 12:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time on the community boss, LinkedIn or Facebook pages. Until next time, manage like a boss.