Why Do We Treat Sexual Identity Differently from Flavor Preferences?

This episode explores the societal and cultural differences in how we perceive and treat sexual identities compared to preferences like food tastes.

1. Cultural norms significantly shape our perceptions of both food preferences and sexual identities.
2. There's a historical context to how different societies treat preferences and identities, often tied to survival and social cohesion.
3. The episode challenges the listener to think about the reasons behind the societal importance placed on sexual identity.
4. It discusses the potential harm of stigmatizing personal choices, whether they be about food or sexual orientation.
5. The conversation highlights the inconsistency in societal reactions to personal preferences, urging a reevaluation of what should define personal identity.

1: Introduction

The hosts introduce the topic by discussing human inclinations and societal norms. They set the stage for a deep dive into why sexual identity is treated differently from simpler preferences like taste in food. Simone Collins: "There are many things that humans have predilections for, whether those predilections are genetic or due to our environment."

2: Cultural Comparisons

Discussion on how different cultures treat food and sexual identities, with examples ranging from dietary restrictions in religions to the treatment of sexual orientation in various societies. Malcolm Collins: "Just suppress it. But isn't that what I tell people with cake?"

3: Societal Impact and Personal Stories

Exploring the personal and societal impacts of stigmatizing behaviors, with anecdotes and comparisons to other forms of identity like dietary preferences. Simone Collins: "People approached diet from only the perception of dopamine spikes, although you should probably approach diet from the perspective of, are you surviving?"

1. Reflect on personal biases: Consider why you hold certain beliefs about identity and preferences, and challenge them if they're based solely on societal norms.
2. Educate yourself about different cultures: Understanding the origins and reasons behind cultural practices can foster greater empathy and reduce stigma.
3. Advocate for nuanced discussions: Encourage conversations that acknowledge the complexity of identity beyond black-and-white categorizations.
4. Support inclusivity: Promote environments where all forms of identity are respected, whether they relate to sexual orientation, food preferences, or other personal choices.
5. Question societal norms: Be critical of the norms that dictate what is 'acceptable' and why, especially when they affect personal freedoms.

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone explore the complex relationship between human predilections, such as arousal patterns and food preferences, and the cultural norms that shape our attitudes towards them. They question why it's socially acceptable to shame certain food choices but not sexual orientations, and delve into the historical context of how sexual compatibility became a key factor in modern relationships. The couple also examines the formation of subcultures around shared experiences of societal othering, and how these communities can become intrinsically tied to one's identity. Throughout the conversation, they touch on topics such as the AIDS epidemic, the conglomeration of the LGBTQ+ movement, and the potential risks and benefits of gender transition. Join Malcolm and Simone as they navigate these sensitive issues and share their personal perspectives on fostering a supportive environment for their children.

People

Simone Collins, Malcolm Collins

Content Warnings:

Discussions of cultural and sexual identity, which might be sensitive for some listeners.

Simone Collins
I don't know where you're going to go, so let's dive right in. It's something I've been thinking about recently. There are many things that humans have predilections for, whether those predilections are genetic or due to our environment. Growing up, two broad categories where I think humans have varying predilections that are both genetic and environmental are the things that arouse them and the flavors that they enjoy. That's true.

Yeah. Okay. Huh. So the question then becomes, why is it that I cannot impugn someone? I'm like, I don't like this particular food.

Malcolm Collins
I don't think that cake is healthy. I don't think you should eat cake every day. I can understand that. My kids might even like the taste of cake. Okay.

But I am going to shame them for eating cake. I am going to withhold cake from them. Yeah. Or soda or alcohol. People are very passionate about these things.

Why is it that as a society, that's a totally normal thing to say, but if I come from a cultural group that has similar beliefs around something like gender transition, same sex attraction, that's seen as homophobic. Would you like to know more? Our family doesn't particularly like italian food. Like, I find it to be carby and honestly, a little bland for my taste. We don't serve it a lot to our kids.

Okay. Now, some. A family that likes italian food, that, like, receives pleasure when they eat italian food and really enjoys that. I understand that there's other families like that. I just don't want that for my family right now.

This is a totally normal and inoffensive thing to state. No one is going to say I'm apostrophe when I state something like this. Yeah, that's just not for you. What is really fascinating is when I correlate this with something like sexuality, you would get an extremely negative response, because a lot of people, they will attack our position on gayness, which is to say that I, as a family, like my kids, were born same sex attracted or due to environmental conditions, become same sex attractive. I'm not going to shame them, because I think that we have other solutions to have families right now.

And I think that the costs of shaming them are less than the benefits from a cultural perspective. But I hold nothing against the cultures that do. And I can understand why from a historic context, especially if they have other cultural solutions for same sex attraction. The. A lot of people are, like all conservatives, have the same solution to same sex attraction.

This is just objectively not true. So if I'm just contrasting three groups here, traditional Catholics, traditional Muslims, and traditional Protestants. Traditional Catholics who were born same sex attracted. If you look at the catholic priesthood, some studies show that over 50% of the priesthood is same sex attracted. It is.

They get a position of status, but they just have to maintain celibacy. That's actually a pretty good trade off and not particularly inhumane. It's like ethically sourced eunuchs. You go to. Obviously, it has led to some negative externalities for altar boys.

Simone Collins
Yeah, I was going to say, not always eunuchs, but if you look at. Rates within the catholic church versus other professions where people interact with kids, a lot like public school system, the rates of malicious, of. Well, you guys know what I'm talking about. Are higher in the public school system, even on a per teacher basis. A lot of people don't know this, and this was a report done by the Clinton administration, so get off me on this.

Malcolm Collins
Protestants, it is. You just suppress it. But isn't that what I tell people with cake? Isn't it that what I tell? Just suppress what many cultures say with something like alcohol or cake or some foods that we might think are culturally distasteful.

Simone Collins
Some frog. Yeah. You know, Jews, for example, or Muslims, for example, don't eat pigs. Right. It's not for any specific health reason.

Malcolm Collins
It's just, don't eat pig. This is a control. And you're like, pig is good. I like eating pig. But that doesn't mean I have anything against Muslims.

So I'm starting by just laying out the problem. Right. That's interesting. Yeah. So the question is, why is this the case?

And people are like, people are really forced to live. Oh, and I forgot. The muslim solution, the extremist muslim solution is gender transition, which is actually really funny to me, that gender transition progressives are, like, accidentally discovering conservative Islam, which is you have a gender confused young person with same sex attractive, and it's just transition. I'm done. Fixed it.

No more gay. It's an interesting cultural solution. And we can get into briefly as to why I think you see this within islamic populations and not in other populations, is it solves the sex ratio problem you have within islamic populations because. You have religion populations and people have multiple female partners. Yeah.

You have more unattached males in this culture. So these are more males who will just never get a partner. So it does make sense to transition. Greater society, marital stability. Yeah.

Simone Collins
People get married. Yeah. Because also one of the. One of the big things I would say is if you can't. If you decide that you live in a society that is anti carb and you freaking love carbs.

Like, all right, that's tough, you'll adjust. But when you live in a society that doesn't let you choose the life partner that would. That you'd be sexually compatible with. And for some people, that's really important part of their relationship. But why is that an important part of their relationship?

Malcolm Collins
Like, that's an interesting thing to note, right? Like, historically, this was not an important. Part of relationship compatibility. Yeah, that is an interesting thing. That's its own, like, huge pandora's box, right?

Simone Collins
Is why do we care so much about sexual compatibility? There's an evolutionary argument to be made that at least when it comes to male female pairings, which are reproductive in nature, it could matter, because studies have shown that people, when they just smell sweaty shirts or something, are more likely to be attracted to people with whom they would be genetically more compatible for whatever reason. Right. You do see these levels of. But I'm talking historically, throughout most of history, typically around people with whom they're.

Fairly well genetically, you're marrying people who. You'Ve never had sex with. You've likely never even kissed, who you've never held hands with. This is historically the norm, even if you're talking about many indigenous cultures. I'm sorry, these progressives love to elevate indigenous cultures.

Malcolm Collins
So I'm just saying that even among the cultures that they elevate, while you can find some that are outside of this, actually, historically, no, you were not having sex outside of marriage to that frequently, except in rare anthropological cases. And this is especially true of the successful cultures, the cultures that ended up conquering their neighbors and forming long lived empires. So the question here becomes, this is weird, right? And I think that you came up with one of the answers. The elevation of sexual identity to something that was critical that a person lived out came downstream of sexuality becoming key to a healthy relationship and sexual compatibility becoming key to a healthy relationship.

Because in historic context, it wasn't. And I actually think relationships are worse off for it being elevated. Yeah. And when you look at subreddits, for example, like, dead bedrooms, it's. Yeah.

Simone Collins
When you make a relationship about sex, and then the sex almost inevitably changes over time as people have kids and hormones change and things get mismatched. Yeah. Like you're setting yourself up for failure. Yeah. I'm with my wife because I respect her as a human being.

Malcolm Collins
That was what I was looking for. Somebody. Well, screw it. I'm with you because you're friggin hot. But, like, I.

Your effect on my arousal patterns is, like, the last thing that I'm thinking about in terms of what recommends you as a wife. 100%. Yeah. If we got divorced, it would never be over sex. It would never be over sex.

And it's the same with our kids. When I'm elevating, when I'm telling my kids the type of person they should be looking for in a spouse, I would not elevate that. So I think this is one thing, is the perverse elevation of sexual compatibility within relationships. Yeah, that's interesting. And just honestly, sex within relationships, it's.

Simone Collins
People approached diet from only the perception of dopamine spikes, although you should probably approach diet from the perspective of, are you surviving? Are you healthy and functional? Yeah. But the other thing that led to the elevation of this as an identity. So we're going to talk about this is the elevation of casual sex.

Malcolm Collins
There was no real reason for gay men outside of, like, married gay men going to gay bath houses occasionally, which historically was very normal to, when I say married, a heterosexually married gay men just going to get relief occasionally outside of their marriage, that as soon as you had casual dating was in these communities, and it was expected that everyone in high school was sleeping around to some extent, and everyone in college was sleeping around and to some extent was. Which is a very new thing. Which is very new. Then, yes, for these people to indulge in what was giving them arousal, they needed to go out and engage in a way that was public and people could say, admittedly, right away, but, like, how dare you compare this to stuffed cake and stuff like that? Being gay has no negative health consequences.

And here I'd be like, record scratch. Excuse me? Record scratch. That sounds more like an autistic re right there. Record scratch.

Are you. Do you not remember the AIDS epidemic? It nearly genocided the entire gay community. Because intrinsically, you are going to get more STD's passed by anal sex than you are through other forms of sexual contact, because it leaves more blood to blood contact. Duh.

There is a reason why cultural groups culturally evolved the iterations that shun this behavior, had more surviving offspring than why you see a level of homophobia in almost every long lived widespread culture in the world today. Okay, now we have scientifically gotten to a point where we can get over that. But if you're talking about, like, when the gay movement was first blossoming, no, we had not yet gotten to a point where we could get around that and the families of these people who told them it was better to live a closeted lifestyle than die of AIDS, which was the alternative for many of these people, probably right. That's a horrible fucking thing to say. But it's also objectively true if you're talking about the early gay movement and what happened to many of these people.

Simone Collins
Yeah, really sad. And I appreciate what they went through to normalize their community. But then you have the other thing, which is to say whenever you take a community and you say, you can't do this, and we will shame you for doing this, and the desire is strong enough to do that, that a portion of people are still going to indulge in that, then you will get a subculture that forms around that. So why isn't there a subculture for people who cheat on their partners? Because that is like, historically, men wouldn't have same sex liaisons.

Women would to a lesser extent, and. Also men would cheating on your partner. But we'll get on that in a second. I actually think that portions of the modern poly movement evolved out of this subculture. Oh, interesting.

I like that take. That's fun. We can get on this in a second. So we need to go back to, if you had something like spicy food, everyone in society who eats spicy food is going to be punished. Okay, get a subculture of people who like spicy food.

Malcolm Collins
And they'd hang out in places, and then they began spicy food like, oh, that's spicy to mean that's cool and stuff like that. Because their hierarchy was in their culture begins to become determined by how much they are willing to other themselves in mainstream society to fit in with that culture. In the same way that, like, two goths meet each other and they've never met each other before. Their relative hierarchy is normally determined by the number of, like, body modifications or outfits or knowledge they have of obscure bands that would. Other than mainstream society or tattoos or whatever.

Right. So you begin to get, like, tattoos of chili peppers and like, certain jewelry configurations that mean, like, when you meet someone. Oh, you know, this is another spicer. Spicer. I like that.

They begin to talk among themselves and they begin to develop alternate ways of speech and stuff like that because they're talking within their own communities and they need to signal to other members of their community. And then, oh, wouldn't you know it? There's this much rarer group of people, but they really eating salt. And they're also shunned by mainstream society for their salty tastes. Now, this community is also an underground community.

And they just learned it's more convenient because both groups are hated by society for things that they do as food, to meet in the same locations and everything like that. Oh, this is largely what happened with the gay and trans movement. These movements have no real reason to be connected, but from the economies of. Scale and resources perspective, it just made more sense to share some spaces. Yeah, in the early days, but they are as biological phenomenons, I think, almost completely unrelated.

One's an arousal system thing, one's a gender system thing. Even if it is an arousal system thing, it's a much more specific arousal system thing. It's not the same kind of a thing, but they judged themselves by the people who hated them, because people always do that. When you are othered by society, you go where the critical mass of cultural inertia is, and that's where you begin to identify. And that's how these various movements that really didn't have any reason to conglomerate began to conglomerate amongst each other into what is now LGBTQ, which is interesting.

And take that to mean whatever you mean. But what then ended up happening is people begin to define their identity by this subculture. And this always happens with subcultures. I remember how personally hurt I was as a kid when I was dressed as a. Like a seamster, basically.

Not true seamster, but, like, my own take on it. And somebody was like, oh, I love that seamster look. I used to be a seamster, too. I had a seamstress phase a few years ago when I felt so hurt by that. I was like, this isn't a phase.

Simone Collins
This is my identity. How dare you? People always think that their community right now is their identity, right? You see this in the right as well. Individuals who are, like, in their Andrew Tate phase think that this whole man masculine thing is, like, their identity, or this whole mgtow thing is, like, the core of who they are, or this whole red pill thing, and it's like, no, trust me, bro.

Malcolm Collins
This is a phase. This is just the community that you are identifying with right now, and you have identified a sense of self around this community. Now, certain communities can exist throughout your entire life if they become stable cultural units, which is what happened with the lgbt culture. But that doesn't mean that it is intrinsically part of a person's humanity, other than any more than, like, the foods that you like are an intrinsic part of your humanity. I think that's what we're looking at here, is we.

And then people can be like, what is your human identity, really? And I can say that of all the things that are not your identity, the things that I am extra sure are not your identity are the things that you didn't choose about yourself, the things that are just biologically coded into. You, like how much of a sweet tooth you have, your sexual orientation, et cetera. Your gender, your raster pathways. Yeah.

Your race, your, like, these things may cause society to treat you differently, but they're all things that you didn't choose about yourself, and therefore you have less ownership over them than the things that are a result of who you differentially. Oh, I like that. Yeah. So the point you're trying to make is that what we should use to define ourselves are the things that we are. Our prefrontal cortex cortices essentially would say are ours, that we own them.

Simone Collins
We didn't inherit them genetically. I mean, deterministic. It was inevitable that we were going to hold these stances, but at least there are stances that we intellectually own instead of stances that we just genetically hormonally inherited. Right? Yeah, that's cool.

Malcolm Collins
And I also think that you can see that we talk about things like shaming, eating calories, right? Somebody's like, would a sub community? Because we definitely do that. Would a sub community form around it has its own social norms and everything? Yes, that's what the haze movement is, where they pretend that eating too many calories isn't unhealthy.

Simone Collins
But then there's also the pro anim, which is all about the complete opposite. Opposite with the haze movement. What's interesting is there are social norms within the haze movement where if somebody begins to lose weight or if somebody begins to suggest that being healthy may. This may be incompatible with being healthy, they get shunned and shamed by the community. Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins
Which is just what you're going to see within things like the trans movement. And keep in mind, I think trans is a real phenomenon, but I also think that a portion of it has gone off the rails right now. But if you are within the trans movement and you point that out, you will be completely excluded and ostracized from the community, which creates a really toxic environment within the community because people can use that identity to hide negative behavior. Patterns, then I think the bigger questioner or takeaway I have from this is, yeah, okay, so, yeah, there's no reason why because we feel a certain orientation or attraction to things that we should necessarily indulge in them. But then the question is, what is ideal or justified in terms of denying yourself a craving versus not because a lot of these things are cultural.

Simone Collins
Like you say, a lot of food prohibitions are based on very old religious traditions that originally may have evolved to help with sanitation, food safety, but now don't really have a place in society. When how does a person, individually, thinking for themselves, decide if they're going to act on certain sexual fetishes or arousal pathways or not? I think that's a great question, and I want to point out here, because one thing that I'm sure I'll get criticized for is people saying that the gay individuals are responsible for the AIDS epidemic that ended up hurting the community. No, that's not what I'm saying here. Look at early things, like early food prohibitions may have been around health reasons.

Malcolm Collins
Okay? If an individual eats those foods and gets a health issue because they were eating those foods, I am not here saying it's their fault, like, whatever, but it's an objectively true thing that these things are correlated. And so then the first question is, are they still correlated? Are the reasons why we shame things like gayness? Right.

Still correlated in our society? Does it still hurt people in the way it used to hurt people at the same rates? And the answer is no. So within my cultural group, I will not shame my kids for doing it, because everything you potentially shame your kids for is an avenue other cultural groups can use to break your kids out of your cultural group. Yeah.

Simone Collins
And it's a rebellion trigger. It's a rebellion trigger. So you are creating mechanisms for kids to leave your family. With every one of these, you stack up. So there is a very strong motivation to remove these stacks, because when a kid and anything around sexuality is an incredibly powerful one to use, because the age at which kids most deconvert from their birth culture, that is their religion, is between 15 and 21.

Malcolm Collins
That's also when they're going through puberty. That's also when they're experimenting with these things for the first time. This is the candy the man in the van can use to loop. Then to take them to the second location, you don't want to go. So if you could destigmatize these within your cultures, you actually get a lot of additional cultural protection.

However, transness. Now, this is a different thing. I actually, when I look at the trans community, when I look at the data around the community, I think that it leads to more mental health problems. Whatever we have in terms of gender transition technology right now, and this may not always be the case, I think it's causing more problems than is fixer. And I think that there was this great recent study done by a very respectable researcher, which really showed this, that a lot of the narratives we've been getting around transition being the solution to gender dysphoria, we're just not long term data based.

And this then leads me to say, with my kids, would I warn them against that community? Yeah. I would say that it is probably true that some portion of humans do have an incorrect sort of gender modifier in their brain, but they happen to be born with that. I do not think that gender transition is the cultural solution that we would recommend for them. Mm hmm.

Simone Collins
Yeah. Which, for some people, it sucks. Right? I don't know what to say. Like, it's, somebody has a gambling addiction, it hurts them to say, yeah, you shouldn't be gambling.

Malcolm Collins
And they might identify a lot as a gambler. They might really like doing it. They might have a biological compulsion to do it. But at the end of the day, it just seems to be correlated with long term negative outcomes. So I wouldn't recommend that.

And that would be the heuristic I'm using, whether it's food or arousal patterns or anything like that. And this is why we are generally very open to things like fetishes and stuff like that on this. This show where people can be like, why are you so open to these sexual things? And it's because that provides our kids with a level of protection. Yeah.

Simone Collins
And generally with rules. What we've seen from the research is it really is best to have almost no rules. And then just the one or two rules that really matter, you hold to them fast, and you never make exceptions. But the more rules, you have a. Religious community that can back all of your rules.

Malcolm Collins
And this is the other thing about predilection shaming and stuff like that. I will never impugn another culture for their practices. Okay. I'm not going to say you don't get to practice these practices. Those are not my kids.

That is not my culture. And people will say, what if it leads to those kids committing suicide? What if it leads to them being depressed? And I'm like, okay, let's look at the data, people. It turns out that people who grow up outside of hard religious cultures or very religious cultures have much higher rates of depression and suicide than people who grow up in very religious cultures.

So does that mean we should, like, does that mean we should get rid of those groups? No, of course not. Like, it's absurd, right? This. Oh, what if kids end up committing suicide because of this?

Actually ends up giving more power to the ultra religious communities and less power to the secular communities. When you look at the data, like overall sources of data, outside of edge cases like gender transition and stuff like that, but they selectively apply the data only where it allows their community or group to impose their ideology on in their moral framework, on other cultural systems, which I see is immoral. Yeah, totally.

Any final thoughts? What about you? What about me? Like, where I stand with all this. On our kids, etcetera.

Simone Collins
Yeah. In general, with our kids, I just want them to be safe, and I want them to ideally have kids that they give great experiences to. So the way I look at it is, if there seems sex attracted, not a problem. Just make sure that you freeze your sperm or eggs early, and when you find the right partner, do IVF, whatever it might be. I think that's all fine and good.

And the cool thing about us having a bigger family too, is let's say that we have a same sex attracted kid and they want to have kids that are closer to biologically them, instead of getting a sperm donor or an egg donor, because let's say we have two girls who turn out to be a girl who turns out to be a lesbian. She could just have her brother donate sperm and then have kids that are quite biologically similar. So I don't know. I think that there are fine solutions, and we don't actually have a lot of logical reasons to be pretty specific about people's transitions. I mean, I don't think collectively we're even against our kids transitioning.

But though we would probably say wait until you're of age, like you're an adult, 18 to 21, before you actually do it, we're not going to support that before, ideally fully myelinated, before you actually start transitioning. I know it's tougher hormonally to do that transition later, but still deal with it. And then before you transition, freeze your genetic material, eggs or sperm, ideally as embryos. Yes, but I would add that I do not think that the long term outcomes for these individuals are very good if you look at the real data rather than the data that they're. Yeah, but when you're looking at, and I think it varies too, you really have to look at the actual community.

If we have someone with rapid onset gender dysphoria, it's a very different story from a kid that we have who from the very beginning. No, I agree. As parents, I think it's funny. If you had parents who are actually supportive of this, they could actually tell you, which I've often seen with kids is they'll go to their parent and they'll say, mom, I've always acted like a girl. And the mom's, I have raised a girl.

Malcolm Collins
You have not always acted like a girl. You have acted very differently from your sisters. You have acted like your brothers your entire life. It's just this community is good at getting people to recontextualize their entire life history through their own lens. And so if they knew that they had a family that wasn't going to be reflexively anti supportive.

So I do agree with that. To give them honest information about whether what the community is telling them about their personal autobiographical history is actually accurate. Yeah, I view it. This sounds terrible, but I view transitioning similarly to how I view suicide. If someone for 20 years has wanted to end themselves.

Simone Collins
Yeah, you know what? Like, they've been consistent about that. They've not flinched. They've been committed to it. They've planned around it.

They've held their stance. We've checked with them a billion times. Let them go for it. Same with transitioning. These are like, typically, if you're doing it all the way, which you should, if you're going to do it, permanent, irreversible changes.

So if you're committed and you're ready to go. So I would just say I would take the same approach that we take to food, which is generally, we're pretty permissive. Trying to go against really strong, like, need pathways often backfires, as you see with diet culture, right. People who go on diets inevitably slingshot back as soon as they lose control or stop being on ozempic or whatever, right. They run out of their meal packets.

And I think the same goes for sexuality. So in general, unless you feel like there is a very severe risk to a particular food or arousal pathway, for example, if someone decided that they were super into eating humans, I'm sorry, we're going to draw a line there. And if someone has specific, very illegal arousal pathways, and I'm not going to mention those words. No, sorry, that's just not going to happen. So speaking of, this is something you get with vegans as well.

Malcolm Collins
I don't say vegans are like anti meat eaters, right? I don't say they hate. And I understand why they might practice that as a family for cultural reasons, and I support that. It's just not my choice. Yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins
Even, yeah. As long as it doesn't hurt a baby. I don't know enough about the research around vegan infant formula, for example. I worry a little bit about that, but whatever. As long as I love you, too.

Malcolm Collins
And if it doesn't work, they'll die out. So, whatever. No, nothing that can hurt babies, never. I will find them and kill them. And like that dream I had last night where someone was threatening Indy, who right now is dreaming very vividly in front of me in her crib.

Simone Collins
And then I just beat this person up ruthlessly screaming at them while people around me watched. I can't. Instinctually, I have dreams about hurting people who hurt babies. I cannot let that happen. But anyway, I don't.

I'm sure vegan formula is probably. I love you, Simone. I love you, too, gorgeous.

Oops, sorry. Okay, we're recording. So, you suggested, as a topic, quality in food, which I find so intriguing, all I can think of immediately is this one scene from the japanese film Tom Popo, where there's this one couple that their entire, like, all of their romantic liaisons is based on really weird food stuff. This is gonna go in a totally different direction than you think. Then, yeah, I don't know where you're gonna go, so let's dive right in.

Malcolm Collins
Then, yeah, I don't know where you're gonna go, so let's dive right in.

Simone Collins
Then, yeah, I don't know where you're gonna go, so let's dive right in.