The Death of Woke: Stats on Declining Wokeism

This episode examines the concept of "wokeness," its prevalence in society, and the patterns of social activism over time.

1. Wokeness has evolved from mainstream popularity to a more concentrated influence within elite circles.
2. The term's usage and related social justice terms have decreased in general media but remain vibrant within certain elite narratives.
3. There is significant public and institutional pushback against the extremities of woke ideologies.
4. Shifts in societal and media dynamics suggest a cyclic nature of social justice movements.
5. The potential long-term implications of wokeness may mimic historical patterns of elite-dominated ideologies.

1: Introduction to Declining Wokeism

The hosts introduce the topic, discussing the historical context and cyclic nature of wokeness, comparing it to past movements. Malcolm Collins: "Is wokeness just another cycle, like a pendulum that moves back and forth over the course of history?"

2: Statistical Analysis

Analysis of term frequency in U.S. newspapers and media, illustrating the decline in usage of terms like "racism" while others like "transphobia" rise. Simone Collins: "We can see there was a huge peak around 2021, and since then it's been declining."

3: Cultural Impact and Media

Discussion on how media and cultural institutions embed and propagate woke values, and the backlash from traditional media outlets. Malcolm Collins: "We are essentially going to see wokeness intensify within large bureaucratic bodies."

4: Predictions and Reflections

The hosts reflect on the future of wokeness in relation to societal changes and upcoming political cycles. Simone Collins: "Any trends we are seeing downwards in terms of wokeness right now are going to start being reversed during this election cycle."

• Reflect on the consumption and influence of media narratives.
• Engage critically with sociopolitical discussions.
• Recognize the cyclic nature of social movements and prepare for shifts.
• Consider the broader implications of cultural changes in personal and professional environments.
• Stay informed about changes in institutional policies that may affect your community.

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the trajectory of woke culture and its potential impact on society. Drawing from a variety of data sources and cultural observations, they examine whether wokeness is a cyclical phenomenon or a new, enduring force that will shape the future. The hosts discuss the decline in certain "woke" terms in media, the persistence of cancel culture incidents, and the pushback against progressive narratives from major institutions. They also delve into the potential consequences of wokeness becoming entrenched within large bureaucratic organizations, even as it loses popularity among the general public. Malcolm and Simone consider various scenarios for the future, including the consolidation of power by the "woke elite" and the potential for societal unrest.

People

Malcolm Collins, Simone Collins, David Rizzuto

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

Malcolm Collins
Hello, Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. A long time ago, a Salis park episode came out where they predicted how long woke culture was going to last. It was season 19, episode one, and it was called stunning and brave. And at the end of the episode.

A farmer is predicting the course of woke culture going forwards. And he says, we have dealt with this before. And based on the last time we had a rise in wokeness, which the last time we had it, it was called the PC movement, or the politically correct movement, which was such a thing, who are born long after this movement. If you want to see a humor that was lambasting it as a movement, a very good movie to watch, and I think fairly entertaining, is called PCU, which is about the death of fraternity culture and it being replaced with various activist groups within college campuses. It's a whole new ballgame on campus these days.

Tom
And they call it PC. PC, politically correct. And it's not just politics. It's everything. It's what you eat, it's what you wear, and it's what you say.

And if you don't watch yourself, you can get in a buttload of trouble. For instance, see these girls? Yep. No, you don't. Those are women.

You call them girls and they'll pop your figs. Save the whales. Gays in the military. Now. Free Nelson Mandela.

Malcolm Collins
They freed him already.

Tom
What, those women? Those aren't women, Tom. Those are womenists. You know, I saw the new Madonna video last night. Unfriendly.

See the one in the middle one? The blonde hair? Yeah. She's looking at me, isn't she? Kind of.

Malcolm Collins
What, do you know her or something? Hey, Sam, isn't that the guy that you used to. Yeah. You went out with a white male? I was a freshman.

Simone Collins
Fresh person. Please. Please go talk to her. What's the problem? Watch this.

He's coming over here. Sister, form a wall. No, you don't have to do that. Hi. How you doing?

Tom
Is Sam in there? In there? What's that supposed to mean? Yeah. Cock, man, oppressor.

Thank you. You know, this place is kind of insane. Wait till you meet the cosh heads. The what? What don't we eat?

Malcolm Collins
Red meat. Why don't we eat it? You murder what don't we eat? Red meat. Why don't we eat it?

Tom
These, Tom, are your cause heads. They find a world threatening issue and stick with it for about a week. What's up? What up? What happened to the ozone layer?

Simone Collins
It was last week. Now it's me. But then that had a pushback to it, and it died for a while and then woke it and came. And so South Park, I think, made the educated prediction that these cycles last about six years, and then we had about 5.9 left. However, that episode came out in 2015, so we're about four years late on that prediction.

Malcolm Collins
This brings me to a question. Is wokeness just another cycle, like a pendulum that moves back in force over the course of history? Or is wokeness something totally new that will only grow or will become more like a subset or religious community within our society? We seen peak wokeness already. Okay.

And if we have seen peak wokeness, what does the future look like? And I will be going over a lot of statistics in this episode, a lot of them drawing from a blog by David Rizzuto where he wrote an article titled, is the great awokening really winding down? And I will come to a conclusion that I think is different than the one he'll come to. Would you like to know more? And I'll just summarize the conclusion I'm going to come to, which is, I do think that wokeness is past peak in terms of general population popularity.

However, I think that it's structured very differently than old systems of political correctness, and that we are essentially going to see wokeness intensify and exaggerate its effects within large bureaucratic bodies and become more and more obviously a unique and differential, basically moral cosmological framework that will be seen increasingly like a religion of the elite in our society. And the rest of us will feel very similar to what it would have felt like being a non Catholic and living under, say, a catholic monarchy historically. Okay, yeah, I can totally see that. But we'll get to why this will happen in the statistics. So I sent you the article, Simone, if you want to pull it up.

Simone Collins
Yeah, I have it in front of me right now to the first graph. In the article, which is term frequency in popular us newspapers for the terms racists and racism. And what we can see is that there was a huge peak in these terms around 2021, near the beginning of that. And since then it's been declining precipitously. It's not back to base level again yet, specifically in the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal.

Malcolm Collins
And then if you look at you broaden these words so they have other graphs here that I'll show on the screen. One includes sexism, sexist and misogyny. On this one, you do not see as much of decline, which is interesting. It basically plateaued at an extremely high level and is slowly going down. Homophobia and homophobic has basically just been going up over time, which is really interesting.

Yeah, transphobia and transphobic have been exploding over time. It looks like it's only just getting started, which is weird, because talking with the transmaxing community, they implied that they felt like we were already post peak trans. So that's interesting. You can watch our episode on the how the trans movement changed in 2024, which I think that we are within the general population, but not within the elite religious caste that rules our society and controls most of the media. But that's what this is looking at, is media representations of these.

So if we look at terms like islamophobia and islamophobic, they have declined precipitously, and anti semitism and anti semitic declined precipitously and have shot up recently. Although I. Here's my take wellness. So if we just talk about racism, for example, I don't know how much it has to do with concern about racism actually decreasing. Part of me thinks a lot of it has to do with the fact that anyone who wouldn't completely tout the anti racist line in mainstream media has already been purged by those initial spikes.

Simone Collins
So there simply isn't anything in those main spheres that can be discussed. It's basically already been burnt. The. The executions have been made, the books have been burned. There's nothing left to comment on.

Malcolm Collins
I don't know if that's true. Really. You can look at the rise of the. Commenting on homophobia and homophobic and who's actually homophobic these days. Like, it's one of the things that I think that, yeah, they've expunged from their organization and all of the people who aren't of their religious community.

But that doesn't mean, and by the way, just so people understand why I'm saying, like, it's a religious community, because this is a wider framework that probably requires some explanation. They'll be like, no, they'll say they're catholic or they're muslim. And I've explained before that they actually have beliefs around marriage structure, sexuality, our relationship to the environment, morality, what the future of our species should be, what happens after death that is much more in common with each other than with their traditional religious structures. They just are allowed to identify with whatever they want. But it is really one cosmological and moral framework that draws its evidence, and they'll say, strongest evidence from science, and it's clearly not.

But you can look at the way it reacts to something like new research on trans individuals. And if it doesn't fall into the narrative, then it must be debunked. Frequently you'll point out certain ethnic groups commit crime at higher rates than other ethnic groups, and they're like, that isn't true. And I'm like, it's clearly true, looking at the statistics. And they're like, yeah, but it's not true based on science or something, right?

And it's what are they claiming? Because clearly it's not like science, it's something else that they're claiming. They're making another claim here. And the claim that they are making is based on a. If it's not from factual reality, but it is shared across this cultural group as a.

This is just a truism of reality, it's a religious claim, the theological. And so that's why I'm calling it like a shadow religion that sort of exists in a spreading go to. They then show more graphs here that I'll put on stage in turn, that show the frequency within us news outlets and UK news outlets. And I don't think that these graphs show what he thinks they're showing in this piece, which is a decline. Instead, what I see, if you actually look at the graphs, is a shift in terms of the thing that they are currently most freaked out about.

Where racism didn't move to homophobia, now it's moved to transphobia. And before racism it was islamophobia. And now you're getting more misogyny is becoming a hot trend. And so I think cycles through items to care about. One of the charts that always stuck with me the most was it was a graph of BLM type reporting in media overlaid with United States election dates.

Simone Collins
Oh dear. All just an up lead up to elections. So another thing that I think I'm going to predict is any trends that we are seeing downwards in terms of wokeness right now are going to start being reversed during this election cycle. Interesting media and stuff like that. Do you have any thoughts before we go further?

I'm very curious to see how the election cycle plays out in terms of woke concepts in the media. That's a very fun thing to be looking at, given the us election cycle that is impending. Yeah. So here's another interesting graph where what they did is they took an average min max frequencies of terms related to prejudice and positive social justice discourse. So there's two ways you can talk about social justice positively with words like racial equality, social justice, diversity, equity, inclusion, inclusiveness, fairness, et cetera, safe space, awareness.

Malcolm Collins
And then there's negative terms like racism, racist, sexism, sexist, misogyny, homophobia, et cetera. And these two actually rose at about the same rate, but we are seeing slightly more of a decline in negative terms. But they still seem really correlated. And I doubt this would meet a margin of error here, which is pretty interesting. Now, I'm going to go to another graph that I don't have shared with you, which looks at the frequency of the terms.

This one was shared by Eric Kaufman. So in the first of these two graphs, what is the frequency? This is from the data from the Stanford tv news database. And you see the frequency of words like diversity, equity, harm, racism, sexism, white privilege. And what you see here is the cycle.

What I was talking about a rise in the term racism, then a drop in the term racism. But with everything else, it's pretty standard over time. Yeah, yeah. If you just take out racism, it really seems like they've always been pretty big. But what you do see less of is actual cancellations happening.

So here, get five different databases of cancel culture incidents from college. Fix, Nas and fire. You see them rising and then falling after 2021. And you actually can see this as well if you go to Fhir's own website, which is really interesting. So do you have thoughts on this before we go further?

Simone Collins
Yeah, I would want to see the basis for cancel culture incidents, because cancellation has come to mean so many things. We have friends who are like, oh, I was cancelled last night. It was just because people didn't take a comment. They said really well. So I would just want to understand what this means better.

Malcolm Collins
Well, here I can show you exactly what it means. And I am putting in here another graph. Now, this graph looks at students on WhatsApp. Students reported reluctance to discuss specific topics. And it goes over the years 20, 19, 20, 20, 20, 21 and 2022.

And what's really interesting is, over most of these graphs, 2022 is the lowest year other than 2019, except for politics. That's the one where you don't see much. So that's really interesting to me. So you are actually seeing an on the ground difference. And here's another example, and I'm going to read this quote that I thought was really interesting.

Simone Collins
I don't know that when you look at non controversial topics, it looks like it, you know, it goes up in 2020. It seems like people just weren't willing to talk about anything. And part of this, I like that as a control, because it could suggest a wider. Oh, yeah. And you see this in younger generations as well.

Also millennials and above, people who do not want to express anything, even mildly controversial, publicly or even anything, any opinion. They just don't want to say anything. And maybe that, again, means that there's not so much cancellation as we think. People just don't want to be judged and are cowards. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins
Here's an interesting one, because you're also talking about what does it mean? So this is from the scholars under fire database of 2000 to 2022. And I'll share. So this shows how they felt. Discussing this shows specific incidents.

So either a targeting incident of a teacher, a petition, any sanctions, or a termination of a teacher for being not woke enough. And you see there was a huge spike in 2021 and then a rapid decrease. Now, we're not back to baseline yet, but it is actually really interesting. What's also interesting is how big the tight the spike was in targeting incidents. Yeah, but don't you think, again that scholars have just come wise to this?

Simone Collins
So those who would get removed have been removed, and those who remain, those who survived the initial purge, have learned how to avoid. What's interesting is a lot of the things that get them purged are things that happened a long time ago. The Nick Bostrom Institute at Oxford got shut down recently. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that was over the humanities futures. This is like the core ea thing, and I'm pretty sure it was over some perceived racist comments.

Malcolm Collins
He said a long time ago. That came out ages ago. And recently there was a campaign around him. We're still seeing it happen, and I will read to you something that I thought was really interesting. So this is a quote from one of the articles I was reading on this.

For instance, the New York Times was recently targeted by GLAAD in an open letter signed by dozens of celebrities and, quote, unquote, thought leaders, primarily for publishing stories about transgender issues that included perspectives of people who did not simply celebrate and affirm progressive activist preferred narratives. Yet rather than issuing an apology and promising to, quote, unquote, do better, firing, benching, or reassigning the reporters and editors who produced the stories and slash or issuing editorial changes to help the paper conform with activist preferences downstream, which had been their playbook in the past, the paper responded, quote, we received the open letter delivered by GLAAD and welcomed their feedback. We understand how GLAAD and the co signers of the letters see our coverage, but at the same time, we recognize that GLAAD's advocacy mission and the Times journalistic mission are different. Our journalism strives to explore, integrate, and reflect the experiences, ideas, and debates in society to help readers understand them. Our reporting did just that, and we're proud of it.

Contemporaneously, hundreds of the current and former New York Times contributors penned a separate open letter demanding a greater conformance with progressive activists preferred narratives to which the paper responded even more forcefully. It is not unusual for outside groups to critique our coverage or to rally supporters to influence our journalism. In this case, however, members of staff and contributors to the Times joined the effort. The protest letter included direct attacks on several colleagues, signaling them out by name. Participation in such a campaign is against the letter and spirit of our ethics policy.

We do not welcome and will not tolerate participation by Times journalists in protest organized by advocacy groups or attacks on colleagues in a social media, in social media or other public forums. I would never have expected. The New York Times wrote that, wow, that shows a major pushback. And the cast review that in the UK, which is endorsed by the NHS, showed the major. Yeah, that was major.

They shut down a specific transgender clinics that were targeting teens and preteens. Being shut down in the UK, to me, shows a major shift in the public sentiment around this. Actually, it was interesting to me that I was reflecting on the Dave Chappelle trans joke that got him in so much trouble. For people who don't remember, it was like a bunch of different activists who represent the different marginalized groups, like gays, lesbians, trans, and stuff like that are in a car, and the other ones are like, the trans person keeps asking to stop and use the restroom, and the other ones are like, why did we even bring this person along? But they've been with us forever, so we're going to keep them in.

And that was like a fairly mild joke, and yet he tried to get super canceled for it. And I was reflecting on if that joke could come out today and people try to get the special taken down on f inside. People within Netflix tried to get it taken down and do petitions. If that joke was done today, no one would bat an eye like, I think society has really changed in the way it reacts to this stuff. And what was interesting is Netflix also did a big thing of firings after that and got rid of a lot of the people who participated in that stuff, which people were absolutely having aneurysms about.

So I want to hear your thoughts before I give mine, or you're starting. To change my mind with this. This is not data that I expected to see, and I missed a lot of these developments. So now I'm starting to wonder, gosh, are things actually changing? But then I'm also just thinking about how institutionally solidified these general ideologies are.

Simone Collins
And I think still, I have this intuition that so much of this is merely happening because it has been. They've won. They've taken over. Once you've taken over, you don't need to keep using these buzzwords because the problems are no longer being manifested, per their opinion, in their new reformed organizations. So I have a different read of what's going on, and it's actually been heavily colored by both what I see happening with the trans pushback and what I have seen happening with the Gamergate two.

Malcolm Collins
Like the reaction to sweet baby. But keep in mind, in, in the earlier graphs that you highlighted, transphobia was in the middle of a rising spike that is yet to abate. So. And I think that it is. But keep in mind that this is what's being published by newspapers, the Gamergate Two.

If you look at sales figures, it's basically been completely successful. Every game that these studios worked with, these institutions on, that were meant to, like, woke ify. The games is either bombing or going to bomb. They're basically dead on launch, which shows en masse consumers are not interested in these products anymore, which makes it very dangerous for organizations to now collude with or work with outsource DEi, which is. Successful in doing so.

Simone Collins
I feel like as tired as the phrase go woke go broke goes, I never was under the impression that games, movies, shows, books, et cetera, that decided to pursue this in an active way to the extent that they would pay for it, were ultimately commercially successful. No. Before we knew about Sweet Baby Inc. And stuff like that, games that they worked on, God of War, Ragnarok, did pretty well commercially. Oh, really?

Okay, so there are instances of go oak and do okay. Yeah, they were doing okay. Like, they were seen as, like, corporate trash, but they did okay. And now they are not. Keep in mind the bud light backlash that happened, for example, which was fairly effective and I think did a fairly good job of scaring organizations about those types of partnerships in the future.

Malcolm Collins
But here's what I think happened and where I will agree with you. I think within the mainstream population of the US, right, like the plebs, they're firmly anti woke now, and they actually view it as a threat, and they will actually effectively boycott products that are caught engaging in it. Like the target boycotts were fairly effective if you see the way that they changed their status on this. But within the large bureaucratic organizations, they are true blue to the core woke, and they don't need to generate money in the way that small businesses do. So small businesses can't really afford to do anything woke anymore.

Right. But if you're a large corporation like Microsoft, which produces a lot of games, they've been doubling down on their woke initiatives. Nintendo has been increasing its woke initiatives, and that is because these organizations are so large and have so much inertia behind them that their decisions can. Are not going to be as affected by market pressures. And so if you have a viral memetic subset which is good at replicating itself within the organization, um, it doesn't matter that it is hurting the organization's efficiency.

It's just going to continue to grow. Um, like a cult, basically. Um, and as you say, as they have been doing in places like the media and stuff like that, expelling anyone who speaks up. And I will point out here, all this is coming at the same time as media, like traditional media, newspapers, everything like that, are doing worse and worse. Nobody's reading this stuff.

Simone Collins
Yeah. And the question is, like, why don't they change? Why don't they stop? If no one's reading, why did it take Kotaku so long before they finally said, okay, you're not writing articles about games. We're getting rid of you?

Because they've been ossified by these organizational cancers to the extent that they are incurable. Right? Yeah, that's my read. That's my read of what happened. That makes sense.

Malcolm Collins
And then the question is, then, what ends up happening? So there's a few potential futures. One is that they really consolidate themselves within the top of our society. It's being shown that this sort of religious group doesn't believe that people who are in it deserve the same human rights as people who are in it. And they'll even strip them of their, like, ethnic identity.

If a black person disagrees with them, they'll say, you're not really black. Or if a gay person disagrees with it, they're like, you're not really gay. Like, you. You keep seeing this, right? Or you're not really trans, whatever.

So. So they don't really see the people within the group as. It's not that they're denying that these people are same sex attracted. It's. They're denying that they're human.

It's not that they're denying the melanin or heritage of these people. They're denying that they're human. That's why they don't count as a black person anymore. By this group standards, they're a black enemy. Instead, you're saying they don't see them.

As having independent thought anymore. They believe everyone who doesn't agree with them. They're very narrow range of thought. And again, to the south park clip of the gods like you, you'd be a rebel by doing everything we do. Everyone's just walking around like a bunch of conformed.

They're all zombies racing to their graves. Just an excuse for my mom to bitch at me for not wearing girly clothes like all the other Britney Spears wannabes. They're all a bunch of nazi conformist cheerleaders. If you wanna be one of the nonconformists, all you have to do is dress just like us and listen to the same music we do. Shallow life doesn't have true independent thought, and therefore cannot be seen as a source of information.

And this level of dehumanization extends to voting. And they really don't care. If, for example, if the us electorate wanted to regularly elect people like Trump, they would take the position that we just shouldn't have free elections in the US anymore, because the electorate doesn't know what's best for it. And this is something that. And if people are, like, guffawing at us, like, we go to New York dinner parties for wealthy people fairly frequently, this is not an insane thing to say that if the majority of this country was regularly electing people like Trump, that we should not respect their votes and we should just install other people in power.

If you want to talk about things like whatever, like voter fraud or something like that, whether or not it happened is less important than that. There is the will to make it happen. If things persistently went in a different direction than the power players in our society today. And we know that these individuals are very involved in organizations like the CIA and the FBI due to the leaks that happen around Trump's presidential cycle, where you have people in these organizations which basically have very little government oversight, saying, if you're saying, functionally, how could this happen? Saying it is a national security threat to allow one of the presidential candidates to be allowed to be elected.

If you're thinking that there's no way anyone would ever act on that, even if they didn't act on it last time, eventually they're going to act on it. If they feel like, especially if this other group is growing in terms of their voice, and they are going to become increasingly aggressive. For example, if you look at something like the school system, I really don't think it's salvageable. At this point, I think they're going to become increasingly aggressive at how they round the wagons with the university system as a pipeline for cultists who are going into these old bureaucratic institutions, meanwhile, the portion of society that is economically productive is going to begin to split from them. Yeah.

Which is interesting. And so then what happens? Either they end up losing power just because they lose so much economic productivity and they become so comical and so obviously like a cult that the rest of the world is just like, yeah, we're not really engaging with you. You can go off and do your own thing, or they do consolidate positions of power within certain countries. Now, I don't think it'll be every country, but I can easily see it happening within some countries.

In Europe, for example, could happen in the United States, but I think it's a little less likely that it'll happen in the United States. And I think if they make a play, which I think they did do in the last presidential cycle, with media and stuff like that, where you could say even if they didn't directly influence votes, they definitely had a sustained media campaign that was based on a fabricated reality. And if you don't believe this fabricated reality, you can look at something like the Trump Hillary election, where they basically said it was impossible for Trump to win electorally. This would be means so much that there were articles when Nate Silver said he had a 5% chance to call for Nate Silver to be fired from his own organization for being such a bad polar and clearly republicanly biased. And people made this call because they were just reporting what all the other media was saying, which was a fabrication, a statistical fabrication.

And this is one of these things where I get worried, because I think if they overplay their hands, then the other side will play their hand. And there's been people who talk about, oh, this could lead to a civil war, some sort of, like, unrest within the United States. I don't think it will go that far, but I do think it will lead to institutions forming that take the way our democracy is supposed to work, much less seriously. This could be things like stacking the Supreme Court. This could be things which the left mused doing already, just completely ignoring the way our system is supposed to work and striking the Supreme Court.

Like mainstream figures in the left were calling for this. Okay, but hasn't the right been working on that for 20 years and succeeding? You understand what I mean when I say stacking the Supreme Court, right? No, I don't know what you mean then. Oh, basically they said, so we're just going to add a bunch of extra supreme court justices.

Simone Collins
Oh, okay. So, like, literally changing its composition instead of overtime, ensuring that in the way. The system is supposed to work, where you replace one at a time, literally just saying, okay, we control the branches of government right now that allow us to just put in a bunch of extra Supreme Court justices. So we're going to do that. And everybody, it was that that would be bemused is just a blatant power grab.

Malcolm Collins
I think January 6, we saw that the right was open to doing something similar based on and in reaction to what they felt were unfair election results. If the left becomes more blatant, I think we saw at January 6 that there was the will among the base of the right to take action. There are enough people in government like, people were like, why didn't people in government, like, stand up to them more? There are enough people within police forces and the military who think that things have gone too far, that you're not going to get a coordinated response to them. And I think that this is a really key thing that people are.

I don't think in the US we would ever have our police forces or the military go against the federal government or legal things within the United States. We'd never have a coup or anything like that. But when you get a large mob of very angry people who believe that an election was unfairly taken from them, and we have seen that the right is capable of generating this right. If the mob is large enough, you need either a military or a police force that will shoot at them when they're told to. Okay.

And I do not think that our military or police force would do that at scale. And that means that you will not have the organized resistance against something like that, which is very interesting to me. And it is also interesting to me that the two bureaucracies that the far left most needs, if they really shit the bed, are the two that are the most right leaning, the military and the police force. That's comforting. I also think important to point out that any dominance that woke may ultimately secure in mainstream government and really large organizations is short lived due to demographic collapse.

Simone Collins
That there just won't be a population to support this over time. But we're talking not within our lifetimes or even our kids lifetimes. So it's still relevant to us that this dominance. Yeah, I'm thinking like the next 1020 years. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins
So I, like, think this is where we are. That the non woke ism is the mainstream among the consumer base, but among the elite in our society, it is being increasingly collapsed under a church or cult like organization that controls our society in the same way that historically, for example, in the Ottoman Empire, they ruled a lot of non muslim people, but it was a muslim monarchy, and I think that's where we're heading. It reminds me a lot of how many older, at least not just european, all over the place, civilizations were with this elite that was completely mimetically unmoored from the commoners. I guess there was a short lived period in which there was a little bit more alignment, maybe because in the United States there wasn't as strict of a class divide to begin with just because things were still being formed. But I don't know, it, it doesn't seem unusual for there to be this bifurcation and these different realities that people live by.

Simone Collins
Yeah, so whatever. People are going to have their own little communities. They're not going to understand each other, and there will be conflict resulting from that, but nothing new. And we've made it through before, so we can make it through again. I love you to death, Simone.

Malcolm Collins
And I am so glad to be married to someone as sane as you.

A rare breed. And it's funny, I think many people, they hear us call each other sane. They're like, you two are not sane. I don't know. We're both in sane.

Simone Collins
Same way. Which means that just like with all the other groups that have fractured from reality, we fractured in the same direction, meaning that at least we're on each other's page, which is good. I love you so much. Love you too. All right.

Keeping you waiting. Oh, you're such a sweetheart. But you are making a human being after all, Simone safe. The human being has been made and printed. Well, I know, but you're keeping her safe, and I can't do.

Malcolm Collins
Every time you leave me with her for a little bit, I'm like, I'm gonna kill this thing. I'm gonna do something wrong. I'm gonna pick it up wrong. You can't even support a pen. They feel super, super delicate and it's terrible.

Simone Collins
All right, just switch into my proper.

Oh, hold on, it's not plugged in. Now I can hear. Woohoo. All right, all right, I am. I shared in the comments for most of the graphs that we're going to go over come from.

Thank you. So I can take a look. And we're gonna go over grass, which will be in this. And then we're gonna go over David Rosado. I'm not familiar with him.

Cool. I'm excited. This is gonna be good. It's not like that, right? Of a post either, which is interesting.

Yeah. Huh. Okay.

Very nice. All right, you ready for me to get started? Let's do it.

Malcolm Collins
Let's do it.

Simone Collins
Let's do it.