Is Trans Identity an Alternative to Suicide For Some?

This episode delves into the complex intersections of trans identity, high IQ demographics, and mental health, exploring whether transitioning could be a vital social technology for combating existential despair.

1. Transitioning may serve as a social technology to combat increased nihilism and existential crises in urban settings.
2. There is a significant correlation between high IQ and trans individuals, suggesting unique cognitive traits within this community.
3. Controversial perspectives on gender transitioning include its comparison to cult-like structures and its potential to be a memetic mechanism for survival.
4. The episode critically examines the impact of transitioning on mental health, noting both potential benefits and risks.
5. Discussions extend to the broader implications of how transgender issues are perceived and treated in different cultural contexts.

1: Introduction to the Topic

The hosts introduce the episode's controversial topic, discussing trans identity as a potential alternative to suicide. Malcolm Collins: "What if this memetic structure is actually a social technology?"

2: The IQ Connection

An exploration of the correlation between high IQ levels and trans individuals. Simone Collins: "Do they have a different background? No, but they controlled for that in this study."

3: Social and Cultural Impacts

Discussions on how transitioning is viewed and treated in various cultures, including Native American communities. Malcolm Collins: "The concept of transness within native American communities is very interesting."

4: Mental Health and Transitioning

A critical analysis of the mental health implications of transitioning, including potential increases in suicide risk post-transition. Malcolm Collins: "A significant increase was found in attempts to hurt or kill self."

5: Conclusion and Reflections

The hosts reflect on the societal and personal impacts of trans identity and its complexities. Simone Collins: "That person is dead to them. You are like a phoenix, completely immolating and rising from the ashes."

1. Educate yourself on the complexities of trans issues to foster understanding and empathy.
2. Support trans individuals by advocating for inclusive and knowledgeable mental health resources.
3. Encourage open dialogues that respect diverse experiences and identities to reduce stigma.
4. Be critical of overly simplistic or sensationalized narratives surrounding trans issues.
5. Promote awareness of the cultural diversity within trans communities to avoid generalizations.

In this thought-provoking discussion, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the complex and controversial topic of transgender identity, its potential links to mental health issues, and its societal impact. This video offers a nuanced examination of the trans phenomenon, touching on social contagion theories, the relationship between high IQ and gender dysphoria, and the potential risks and benefits of transitioning. Key points covered: The correlation between high IQ and transgender identity Theories on social contagion and the spread of trans ideology The impact of transitioning on mental health and suicide rates The role of autism in gender dysphoria Critiques of current approaches to treating gender-questioning individuals The potential exploitation of trans identities by bad actors The impact on lesbian and gay communities The political implications of the trans movement This video presents a critical analysis of current research and societal trends surrounding transgender issues. It challenges viewers to consider multiple perspectives on this sensitive topic. Note that this discussion contains mature themes and controversial viewpoints.

People

Malcolm Collins, Simone Collins

Content Warnings:

This episode discusses sensitive topics including suicide, transitioning, and mental health challenges.

Malcolm Collins
What if this memetic structure, which encourages transition instead of being something that is intrinsically toxic, is actually a social technology that evolved to treat the increased nihilism and bubicidality caused by the urban monoculture? I like that as a premise. Spicy. So how could it do this? When you transition, you are basically abandoning an identity, your current identity, and then building a new one.

Simone Collins
You're literally killing it, actually. For example, dead. Naming people is dead. Naming them. That person is dead to them.

Malcolm Collins
What is most disturbing is that after a year on blockers, a significant increase was found in the first item. I deliberately try to hurt or kill self. This is in the youth survey questionnaire. So it was increasing puberty. Blockers increased even by travestock's own.

As pro trans as you can think it, they just didn't want to publish. This increases bubicidality. Would you like to know more? Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be spinning some information and new theories with you that I have had recently.

Today. Today we are going to go back into the trans rabbit hole. We are going to be discussing a new framing, I heard for gender transition that makes me dramatically more pro gender transition than I ever have been historically. And the way that gender transition has played out in mainstream society, which is really interesting, which I think is different than just talking about trans issues. As I've said before in the show, I think that there's the historic trans movement, and now there's the new trans movement, which contains some elements that are more like a religion than like a traditional gender ideology movement.

Now, the second thing I wanted to talk about, which I find really interesting, is a recent Emile Kierkegaard I know thought criminal peace. That was talking about something that everyone basically knows. But I thought he did a pretty good job of summarizing it and laying out the stats again, which is that trans people are much more likely to be high iq than other individuals. And this isn't like a small thing. In fact, the difference between trans people and the general population is higher than the difference between Ashkenazi Jews in the general population.

About a standard deviation higher iq than the general population. That doesn't surprise me, because you're looking at a very small, very unique, and very differentiated population. And Ashkenazi Jews are not that different from the general population. Talking about this, compared to trans people. Compared to trans people.

For example, gay people have a lower iq on average than the. Really? Yes, yes. No. This group is really unique.

And they checked. It's not explained by anything else. It's not that they're disproportionately birthed, male or female. It's not their age. It's not that they're.

Simone Collins
They don't have a different. Do they have a different. I feel like there's pretty much every background, culturally, religiously. No, but they controlled for that in this study. They did.

Malcolm Collins
Okay, so even that doesn't matter to this answer. It's just something disproportionately. Now, this is actually really interesting if what we are seeing in the modern trans movement is a disorder. So one of the things I say about transness is it would make sense if human brains are gender differentiated to some extent. Like, that seems obvious that sometimes this gender differentiation would get messed up in, like, a systemic way, like, intersex people exist, stuff like that.

Like, why wouldn't that happen in the brain? Sure. But if that was what was causing the modern trans movement, usually when somebody has a major deformity, basically we'll say some sort of, like, psychiatric condition or deformity like this, they are in a lower IQ group, which just makes sense. When you have one weird mutation in the way somebody's developing, you're likely to have other weird mutations. You're likely to just have a higher genetic load.

And the trans status is not having. That is really interesting. In fact, there's only two other conditions that fall into that. One is autism. Must be schizophrenia, right?

No, schizophrenia is not associated with high iq. The other is anorexia. No. All right, I've got a two for here. This gets really interesting.

And there's a high correlation with transness and autism. So I suspect that this is what's actually buoying the IQ body. Dysmorphia. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think it's just that they're drawing disproportionately from the autistic community. And I'll explain, and I think it's part of the memetic structure only works in higher IQ people. And I'll explain what I mean by this in just a second. Oh, yeah. That anorexia is interesting in that the studies that have looked at it, it's pretty different from a lot of other disorders.

It appears a lot more like multiple personality disorder in that it appears to be culturally transmitted to an extent. A great example of this is it was pretty unheard of in Japan until they, like, 1970s, when they really began to consume western media, and then they had an explosion of it. And so one thing could be is that when something is culturally transmitted, it is more likely to appeal to high IQ populations. But also, think about it this way. If you look at autistic people, they develop special interests, obsessions, and some.

There was actually a study done on de transitioners where a lot of them said that transitioning was their special interest. They didn't realize at the time, but it was one of their sort of autistic special interests. And I think you're missing also a major filtering thing here, too, which is the level of conscientiousness which correlates with IQ, if memory serves, that goes into being both anorexic and a transitioner. And some of these other weird things, is that the amount of self control you need to have to be successful anorexic and to successfully transition is. But that's a good point.

It's a differentiator that requires higher self control instead of lower self control, which most psychological illnesses you're going to have. But I. I'm going to get to a spicy take here. So, as you remember, when I was younger, I would do a lot of studying how brainwashing works and building. I'd look at different sequences of words, and I would masked a b, test them in online environments to find the perfect way to get women to sleep with me for dating.

A strong interest to me. I was very interested in how cults brainwash people, how they get them to transform their identity, and how I could utilize those techniques. And I will admit I was not a great person at the time to get my immediate needs met. I just then reached a point where I saturated those needs and then was able to think clearly and realize that I never should have wanted those needs in the first place, and that a life built in pursuit of sexual conquest is not a life that is ever going to be fulfilling to anyone. I don't believe any of these people who pretend that they're fulfilled by this arthem.

I think they're deeply sad people. But one of the techniques that I learned, and this isn't brainwashed, it's more like a logical structure, like a memetic structure, which was very effective at getting people to sleep with me. But anyway, these techniques that I was using, they were often like a memetic structure, and they did not work very well on people of medium to low iq. Huh. I really struggled with it.

And people can be like, that's surprising. You think that they would be like. The gullible, dumb people who would the gullible. But that's not true. Logical structures.

If what you're doing is like implanting. A memetic machine, logical structures only work on logical people, and fewer people are logical than one might like to conclude. Yeah, they basically break it down when you put it in their head. So I'll give you an example of one of these structures so people can understand broadly how like a memetic machine works. This is a very simple one that I use to get someone to sleep with me, but somebody can understand.

You might have a more complex self replicating structure, which is, I think, what part of the modern trans movement is, but just for the sleep with me structure. Okay. You know, starts with a question like, you don't find me unattractive, right? And very few people are gonna, if you're broadly trying to. I do.

Attractive. Yes. And I'm like, and you think like, happiness and positive emotional subsets are like an intrinsically good thing. Like you want more pleasure and happiness in the world. And they're like, yeah, and I'm like, and because you find me good looking, it would make you feel good to hook up with me.

And it would make me feel good to hook up with you. Therefore, what is your argument against hooking up with me and what I am setting up there is a pillar system, so people might not see what I'm doing. I actually want them to give me an answer there. Right. Because then they have established their logical pillars as to why they're not open to me hooking up.

Simone Collins
And then you just get to attack their remaining pillars, and then you knock. Over the pillars and you've got the sale. But people can see that's a very simple logical set. Actually, this might be why, when I began building like deeper philosophy outside of just I want to win these status games I was born into in the society around me, I had such a disrespect of systems based around pleasure, because I saw how I had been able to use those systems to medically hack people. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins
Now, so there's two things you probably notice about this logical structure argument, right? Two, it's gonna, one, it's gonna be less effective on less intelligent people, and two, it's actually gonna be much more effective on more autistic leaning people. I wouldn't work on me because I don't really care about pleasure or happiness. No, you never did, but a lot of people do. Actually, the vast majority of people we've talked about in our levels of thinking video are these general utilitarians.

And they do, and it's very hard for general utilitarian to argue against that argument once they set themselves in that position. Yeah. And I think that's what the. You can think of this larger transomatic structure as a self replicating memetic structure that needs a fairly high competence substrate to grow with it. Yeah.

And when a substrate is lower competence, that begins to break it down because it's fairly heavy, I would say, like, it's a fairly sophisticated, internally reinforcing memetic subset. So this is one thing, but now I want to talk about the booba side because we can't talk about it in any other terms given YouTube's restrictions and everything like that. But as people know, let's be clear. That we're not talking about mastectomies here. No, I'm talking about the other word that starts with an s that we cannot talk about.

Simone Collins
Yes. Transness relates to boobicide in a couple really weird ways. And I began to think about these. You see this huge portion of increased boobicidality leading up to transition for a lot of people. And some studies have argued against this.

Malcolm Collins
I think it's probably true. But you also see an increased risk of bubicide in the general population. Now that has never existed before. And so I'm going to post some stats on screen here. And it was like, okay, so you've got trans individuals in this sample.

Booba cital ideation. You're looking at 92% had it and 45% had an attempt. In the sample, not trans, you had 70% had it and 22% had an attempt. Non binary, 89% had it and 35% had an attempt. You're just seeing, like, incredibly high rates.

Simone Collins
I wonder what these numbers look like for anorexics. Is that being a sort of control population? This specific study was from the Stonewall school support 2017. A lot of critics have attacked it, but let's just pretend that these numbers are true, because we do know that there is an explosion in boobicidality among young people right now. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins
What if transition instead of being. Or this memetic structure, which encourages transition instead of being something that is intrinsically toxic, is actually a social technology that evolved to treat the increased nihilism and bubicidality caused by the urban monoculture? I like that as a premise. Spicy. So how could it do this?

When you transition, you are basically abandoning an identity, your current identity, and then building a new one. You're literally killing it, actually. For example, dead. Naming people is dead. Naming them.

Simone Collins
That person is dead. To them, you are like a phoenix, completely immolating and rising from the ashes is this new, beautiful identity. Yeah. So isn't that fascinating? That's what we're actually seeing here.

Malcolm Collins
And something that would encourage this belief is that if you look cross culturally, the concept of transness that you see within native american communities is actually very interesting because it doesn't look like the concept of transness we have within our own culture. Are you talking about two spirit people? Yeah, within two spirit people and fafathine people, which is in Samoa, you have a similar concept. So in these groups, while they have been adopted as a type of trans, by the current trans community, they don't actually function like trans people. They're more like a recognition of gay people as a separate gender.

So if I was going to word this differently, these would be like if you were recognized as fafayin, for example, as a young man, you are allowed to take part in female gender norms and sleep with straight men, or otherwise categorized by society as heterosexual men. But would likely in real life, like in our society, not in real life, in western culture, be categorized as gay pictures. Now, it's also important to understand that gay pictures historically were considered straight. If you look at, like ancient Greece, if you look at even in medieval Europe, men who were the tops in gay relationships were often considered straight or straight adjacent. The thing you really weren't supposed to be is the bottom.

Simone Collins
Wait, I've not heard pictures before. So what's the other side of this? Batters. Catchers. Okay, thank you.

Carry on. So what's really interesting about Fefi is they basically live their lives and two spirits, very similar to the way we would say an effete gay man lives their lives and they're happy and they're not having these higher rates of pubicide that you're seeing in other groups that we're seeing in the west indicates that there's something different going on here with this community. And you mean totally unmoored from mainstream developed societal concepts? Totally unmoored from our biologies. Ah, okay.

Malcolm Collins
So what would be the case, as I'm saying here, is that if we didn't have this trans identity, many of the people who are transitioning would just be considered butch lesbians or very effete gay men. And one of the studies that was done this year that is worth mentioning is you also see this in the west. There was a study done 23. Great study, all to give the name and the edits here. I was thinking of the 2024 study, development of gender non contentedness during adolescence and early adulthood.

90% of when you're talking about eleven year olds who identify with a different gender at that age, identify with their birth gender by the time that they are 23. And a lot of them are disproportionately within this group. They were just gay. That's basically what we find out. This is a common thing here, but I want to go deeper here because I looked at some other reports.

So there was another report, and I'll put it on screen here, which shows something really interesting. So you might have noticed in the other group is boobicidality among non binary individuals was also really high. Yeah, that surprised me. But it's not just non binary, it's also bisexuals. So I'm going to put another graph on the screen here.

And you don't need to see it to know, but I. The female to male bubicide rate is high, but not particularly higher than the bisexual girl boobicide rate. What if what we're seeing here is people who are gender confused are much more likely to be pulled in to these ideas, right? And then we're going to be like, who gets gender confused? Who gets pulled into these ideas?

And now we need to talk about a whole other weird thing about mubicidality in the news. You're not supposed to talk about boobicidality. Who, like the World Health Organization, has prohibitions on talking about booicidality because there. Is a bit of a social contagion with it. Right?

It's not a bit of a social contagion, it's serious contagion. Very, very serious social contagions. But yeah, no, you have a very big risk of contagion. When people hear about bubicidality, they're much more likely to think about bubicidality, which is why in all other parts of psychology there would be like, obviously you should never tell a patient if you have x condition, you're much more likely to be bubicidal because it makes them much more likely to be bubicidal. And now we can say, oh, come on, that can't have anything to do with what's going on here.

Except there are two groups that are uniquely susceptible to suggestibility when it comes to boobicidality. They are teenagers and autists, which are also groups that are hugely over represented within the trans movement. To get an idea, 72% of autistic adults scored above the psychiatric cutoff for bubicide risk, compared to 33% of the general population. So you basically have this bose cause that you can implant at somebody's rage, which is bubicidal ideation, and then a solution as one memetic package, which is very good at spreading in our society, but that historically, you would never tell people. This reminds me of this South park episode where Cartman, Rob Reiner is trying to sacrifice Cartman to prove to everyone how serious his movement is.

And I feel like with many of the young people, if you're a trained psychologist, you need to know that you are through bringing these kids into a session being like, oh, if you don't do this, you're gonna commit boobicides. That you're going to dramatically increase the number of young people in this cohort beside. And yet they don't seem to care, even when there is a lot of data showing that it may not even be higher within this cohort. And so we're gonna get to that in a second, but it almost certainly is higher. Now, just everything we understand about how boobicide works would say, if these people are going to an authority figure, and this authority figure is telling you this is the one solution to not boobicide, then it's going to become the one solution to not boobicide, especially if you're autistic.

Simone Collins
Wow. Yeah. How do you think you're doing? This is the girl's bathroom. All right, I need to tell you something.

Eric Cartman
I'm transginger. What? Did you notice the bow? It's okay, Red. I can take a shit here.

I'm a dumb chick, too. You are not transgender, Eric. You don't even know what that means. Yeah, it means I live a life of torture and confusion because society sees me as a boy, but I'm really a girl. Trust me, you don't want this hot potato.

Malcolm Collins
But this isn't a hurting, confused child we're talking about. This is Eric Cartman. Nobody else is gonna know that. You better just give him what he wants. All you gotta do is just read the words on the teleprompter here.

Eric Cartman
Okay. Let's see how the transphobes deal with this. You know, some people say there's no proof that. Not transitioning children. Cues.

I guess I'm the proof. By the time you see this commercial, I'll be dead. Dead? That was fantastic. What does that mean?

I'll be dead? That was very good, Eric. Here, eat this cupcake. It has sprinkles. Do you know what a hero is?

Speaker C
Our hero is somebody who sacrifices himself for the good of others. You can be a hero, Eriche. Jesus Christ. So we could see it as a quote unquote solution to the increased nihilism of our society, right? Yeah.

Simone Collins
Or you could. You're insinuating too, though, that they're creating the problem and then presenting a solution. But that's the problem as well. It's not really a solution because they're also creating the problem. Right.

Malcolm Collins
And they might be making the problem worse. So if you look at some of these other studies that I've been giving you, they'll have like small cohorts, like 13 people or something. Actually, in the bubicide group, they call it the pace study, but there's some longer. And another thing that the trans community does a lot of trans individuals might not know that they do this is when they talk about transitioning, lowering the risk of bubicidality. They're often using different studies.

So to establish the risk, they'll use a study that was specifically pulling from like a concerned population. And so the risk will be really high. That's why it was really high in the straight population was in that study as well. And then when establishing the lowered rates, they'll then pull from a separate study that was pulling individuals in a totally different way. When you look at longitudinal studies, you end up with studies like this one called the long term follow up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment study, cohort study in Sweden.

So to quote here, the overall mortality for sex reassigned persons was higher during follow up than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from bubicide. Sex reassignment persons also had an increased risk in boobicide attempts and psychiatric inpatient rate. So it showed that they had a 19 x higher rate than the control group. So it made them. When you're looking longitudinally, it basically makes everything astronomically worse.

Okay, so let's look at a different study here. The National center for Transgender Equality preventing transgender. Boovacide is the name of this study. So in this study, it was looking at the travestock board of directors and unpublished reports. So people know the whole travestot thing.

They were this very pro trans organization. And so there was a reason they didn't publish this report, but they had it when people were going through their files after they were shut down for abuse. And it says, quote, only one change was positive. According to their parents, the young people experience. This is for people who underwent puberty blockers, only one change was positive.

According to their parents, the young people experienced less internalizing behavioral problems as registered by the child behavioral checklist. So that was a less internalizing behavioral problems. There were three negative changes. Natal girls showed a significant increase in behavioral and emotional problems according to their parents. Also from the child behavioral.

Simone Collins
Oh, that's the testosterone for you, of course. Right. So I don't even really take that one. Dimension of health related to quality of life scale completed by parents showed a significant decrease. And keep in mind, these are affirming parents generally, if their kids are at travestock, for sure, increase in physical well being of their child.

Malcolm Collins
What is most disturbing is that after a year on blockers, a significant increase was found in the first item. I deliberately try to hurt or kill self, end quote. This is in the youth survey questionnaire. So it was increasing. Puberty blocker is increased even by travestack's own.

As pro trans as you can think it, they just didn't want to publish. This increases bubicidality. Do you think that's because in these cases, people were transitioning and then discovering that it didn't miraculously cure their depression, anxiety, or body dysmorphia? Yeah, they talk about this a lot in the community. You first get this feeling of euphoria when you're on this because feel like things are changing, everything's getting fixed.

And then following the euphoria, you typically get a really high increased risk of bubicidality because you begin to doubt. But now you've also othered yourselves and made a lot of cognitive dissonance. Yeah, this isn't so. There was a large US survey in 2009 by the National center for Transgender Equality and the National Gay and Lesbian Tax. And the results were published in the National Transgender Discrimination Survey report on health and healthcare.

And it showed those who have medically transitioned 45% and surgically transitioned 43% have higher rates of attempted bubicide than those who have not. 34 and 39, respectively. Across the board, we're seeing that this doesn't actually fix. It's more like a temporary fixed for boobicidal ideation that makes the problem worse over time. Here's what I might argue, going back to the earlier point, that transitioning can feel like a rebirth following a death.

Simone Collins
Right. That maybe you and I have talked about before. The impact of completely changing your context. How if you have an addiction or some other emotional problem, if you moved to Japan to quit smoking, or you completely change the cast of characters around you, your costume and your set. Yes, you can become a different character.

And yes, you can break out a lot of. Out of a lot of really harmful or non productive mental loops. And I think maybe the problem here is transition can absolutely facilitate that by allowing you to break down and then create a new identity. The problem is a lot of these kids especially. And I think maybe we're looking at the impact of this happening with youth gender transition versus adult transition, is these kids are still stuck with their parents, they're still stuck going to school.

They're able to try to start the process, but really, it's an aborted death and rebirth. Like, they've singed the phoenix, but the phoenix has not become engulfed in flames and turned into ashes. Right. The phoenix is now just burnt. And now you have a burnt phoenix.

Right. And they haven't been reborn. They haven't been able to start anew. So the problem is they're not going to. I'm going to challenge you here.

Malcolm Collins
I think it's probably pretty effective for a short term at feeling like a different person and reestablishing the narratives with which you're engaging with reality. I think it is probably very effective. The problem is the new narratives that they're building, if you look at our levels of thought, are aesthetic moral systems based around gender identity, which, I e, when they're choosing an action, what to wear, what to do, etcetera. The question that they're thinking is, does this align with x gender expression? And the gender expression may be nuanced, but they confuse gender identity with morality.

Right? Instead of. And I think that this is the problem. I think most people with any sort of sophisticated moral framework, unfortunately, and this is the thing, like, sophisticated moral frameworks do not correlate really strongly with high iq. You need to be above a certain iq to have one.

But if you look at something like my Stanford reunion, remember I mentioned that, like a lot of people, there were just living lives to get the money counter as high as possible. Status optimizers or achievement optimizer statuses and. Money optimizers, that's like the least sophisticated moral framework a human can have. And yet these people are like, objectively, some of the smartest humans of our generation. And I know this is someone who interacts with a lot of people.

Like, these are smart people, some of them smarter than myself, but that doesn't mean that they are philosophically sophisticated, that they have engaged. Why do I exist? It's just, okay, I'm gonna optimize money. So I'm not saying that. So being extra smart does not protect you, but it can make you susceptible if you are not intently engaging with your own philosophy on these sort of self replicating moral frameworks.

Simone Collins
Right. The problem that you're going to deal with is most sophisticated moral frameworks would see gender identity as just not particularly important, because most sophisticated moral frameworks do not find human emotion like optimizing for self comfort or positive emotional states in oneself as a thing of moral value. Or aesthetic presentation is something of great moral value. Yeah, it doesn't matter that much, right? Yeah, they're just like, why does it matter?

Malcolm Collins
If I can do this to become slightly more efficient, then I'll do it. It's probably not going to make me more efficient. And this also, when you look at the transmaxing community, you can see it was in it. Like, these are incels who are like, look, I just can't make it in life as a guy, so I'll be a woman because life is easier for women. They're like, being a woman is like living life in tutorial mode.

Okay, your ceiling is lower. But I was never going to get near the ceiling either. And these individuals, for them, what is it but the incel alternative to pubicide? Right. Okay, game over.

I'm starting again within this lifetime. The other really interesting thing to consider here is that trans men, so women who transition, they often look about ten to 20 years younger when they transition. So it's also like they're being reborn at a younger age. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Simone Collins
Yes. They look more like a boys, an adolescent male rather than a man. Yeah, yeah. Which is really interesting within all of this. Yeah.

New start and a younger start. That's very interesting. Another really interesting thing is I've been listening to a lot of detransition videos recently. Another really interesting phenomenon in detransitioner is a talk about how when they detransition, it was like the transition just encapsulated almost the way, like a foreign body in your body can get encapsulated by the little piece of skin, like a piece of glass or something like that. Like inside your.

Malcolm Collins
Not skin, but like tissue that's meant to protect your body from it. Kind of like how clams make pearls. Yeah, yeah. They encapsulated all of this negative stuff about their previous identity that then explodes when they de transition again. And they need to deal with it like nothing was ever really dealt with.

It was just encapsulated and set aside. And it's waiting there for them like. A cyst in their body that's going to burst. Yeah. Which is sad.

And so people can say, why do we look at all this? I think at least Simone would have definitely transitioned. So I've got to look at my daughter's likely transitioning when I need to think of how do I build a system where. And I'm not saying, I'm against them transitioning. I just want.

Simone Collins
How do you think our daughters and not our sons would transition or feel gender dysmorphia in some way? I think that women and men transitioning now, if you look at the deleterious type of transitioning, they're doing it for different reasons and it plays to different things. Yeah. I guess the fact that I was an anorexic autistic adolescent probably doesn't do well in terms of genetic tendencies. Well, I think our sons are so.

Hyper masculine already that it would be weird. I don't think that really, a lot of people who transition actually do really fit their gender subtype before they do. I think a lot of people. There's two groups that I think are deleterious transitioning groups. One is the women who feel love bombed and social pressured and everything like that.

Malcolm Collins
And that's the group I think our daughters might fall into. Because it's very good against very intelligent autistic women, or it's very good not against, but, like, at convincing them when they're not actually trans individuals. Keep in mind, I said, I do believe that actual trans individuals exist. Right. But with men, I think that there's another group that's really exploded within the trans movement.

And these are what historically, like, when I was really involved with the GSA and stuff like this, we saw some of these individuals and we just shamed them to no heaven because everybody knew what was up. They were cis guys who were pretending to be trans to harass lesbian women, and everybody knew what they were up to. Like, they didn't try to transition, really. They just use the identity to get into lesbian spaces or to get into other. And people can be like, come on, nobody's doing this, really?

And I'm like, okay. Or nobody was. Power is doing this. Really look up, like, alak vaid men. Right?

I recently saw. So I keep thinking this person must be, like, a minority player in the gender identity movement. Is this someone's name? Yes. Alec Mademon.

So recently, a friend randomly, like, a Facebook friend, shared a video of his and was like, wow, I think he's one of the, like, deepest, or she or I don't know. I think he's gender neutral. They are one of the most. And I do care about correctly gendering people, by the way. People should see this in this, I do care about it because they've gone through a lot of their culture.

I don't want. You can say is, I don't want. Them to force people who aren't in that group to. If a Christian doesn't want to do it, whatever, don't do it. And I want the Christian to have the right to not do it, but I'm going to do it because I just don't want to hurt people's feelings.

That's my culture. If I don't have a strong reason to hurt someone's feelings, I shouldn't be hurting their feelings. But anyway, this individual on my Facebook wall was being shared as, like, a good thinker in the space, and I thought that maybe they had been, like, popular at one point, weren't still popular. So the thing that they're famous for saying is, quote, these days, the narrative is that freaky transgender people will come into your bathrooms and abuse innocent little girls. There are no fairy tales and no princesses here.

Little girls are also queer, trans, kinky, deviant, kind, mean, beautiful, ugly, tremendous, and peculiar. Your kids aren't as straight and narrow as you think this is. I think, obviously, to me, this reminds me of, oh, I should have never. Shoved all those poor animals up my ass.

Speaker C
God damn it. Don't you people get it? I'm trying to get fired here. Oh, that's courageous. Look, this kind of behavior should not be acceptable.

Yeah, Jesus Christ. But the museum tells us to be totally tolerant, but not stupid. Just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it. Tolerate means you're just putting up with it. You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane, or you tolerate a bad cold.

It can still piss you off. Jesus. Tap dancing Cr. He's right. Our boys didn't hate homosexuals.

They just hated the way this asshole was acting. And this is the problem. You let enough assholes like this guy have the public stage for long enough, and people begin to start hating gay people more broadly because they begin to believe all gay people are like this. And this is uniquely a problem. Is that real, normal queer people or gay people don't have this intense desire to parade themselves around in public doing these perverted things.

Malcolm Collins
That's just a sex pass. And so if you're an average person just trying to live your life, you're actually going to encounter, whether it's on tv or in Netflix specials, this sex pest category much more frequently, even if they're the minority of the community, which is why it's so important that the rest of the queer community absolutely demonize and villainize individuals like this and keep them from getting public stages. Very interestingly, I. After recording this episode, I found out that Alak Vade Menon in 2024 had a Netflix comedy special. He is still being put in front of the public eye when he should be hard cancelled.

But there is just nothing you can do to get canceled on the left that that seems to be, unless it's being slightly right wing in some way. This is a menace to the entire real lgbt community. Like, a real trans person who just wants to live their life does not want activists out there who aren't even trying to pass and sexualizing underage girls in their speeches. They. That is a menace to a real trans person who just wants to live their life because they're just born in the other body, and they just want to transition and live that life.

Simone Collins
Yeah, it's. It's like how we feel about people who say that they're pronatalists, and then they talk about the great replacement theory, and we're like, no, not. I hate those people more than people who aren't pronatalists. Hate those people because they cause problems for our movement. Gay people, gay men, 45% of whom who are voted for Trump in the last election cycle by one poll, at least.

Malcolm Collins
And I haven't found a strong argument against this. Obviously, they're not represented by this, and they get victimized and called out because they're part of the larger community that's allowing this. Lesbian women who are the ones being primarily victimized. You're not seeing this because you're not on the lesbian dating apps, but, like, lesbians reach out to each other on dating apps. Like, women reach out to men on dating apps.

So not much. But these individuals, like no social boundaries, have realized they can use this identity for cover, are extremely aggressive in these communities. And keep in mind, they're larger, they're more muscular. One, I actually heard a lesbian woman, and she would tell the story in two ways. She's like, a man photoshopped himself to look like a woman so that he could get me alone on a date.

And she said, when people heard that, they freaked out. And then I said, a trans woman photoshopped herself to look. She could get me alone. And everyone was like, how could you even suggest that this is a problem? And the fact that this social reality exists has allowed this group of, keep in mind, when you were in high school, like, the creepiest, most sexually aggressive guy who you ever saw, like, who had no friends and otherwise everyone hated, now he can use this identity as a cover.

Of course those guys are going to do that. Like, when a lot of people are like, oh, a guy like that wouldn't pretend to be a trans woman just to further victimize. And then you think for a second, oh, yeah, that guy didn't care what anyone thought of him. He was just a sex pest. And these sex pests who have taken over the trans identity, like, nobody suffers more from this than gay men, lesbian women, and real trans people.

And I have a lot of sympathy for those individuals who are now being victimized because these individuals have realized sort of a social hack they could use to take over their movement. It's scary. And that's why I'm not afraid of our sons, because I don't think that many men who transition do it because of some sort of social contagion. I think it's because they realize that there's a social hack that they can use to their advantage, the bad kind. I do think a number are transitioning for real.

Like, they're actually just born with the wrong right. But with women, I think a lot of them are otherwise well intentioned and got caught up in a social. But anyway, now this might be way too spicy. And we still haven't done the video with the agap or whatever guy. We'll eventually post that.

Simone Collins
Oh, we should know. Yeah, I like him. Kind of boring interview. So it's one of the interviews I'm on the fence about because he's too. Reasonable and people want crazy.

Malcolm Collins
I just didn't think he had a lot of new ideas, to be honest. I think his core thing was shock. Shock within the communities that he's engaged with. But the ideas I don't think are shocking to our audience. So I guess we'll see.

A lot of them have know heard these ideas before. But anyway, I absolutely love you, by the way. I should know for people who, again, might be like, oh, this all out guy, you might have seen him randomly among your friend group, but he's not popular. No. By Queer magazine, he was rated one of the top 100 queer people of the year.

One year. Like, he is absolutely a major influencer in the movement. And I think that the way the used movement used to be, it just needs to learn to have a little bit of criticality around sex pest mentor using this identity to exploit women. Obviously, sex pests would do that. Like, why would anyone think differently that they are always overly aggressive and cross boundaries and don't have any social sense and don't care what other people think of them.

If you give them a memetic hack, of course it's going to spread within that community. And I do not think that they make up the majority of the trans community at all today. But I will say that if you are a lesbian woman, that's the majority of interaction having with the trans community, because they're aggressive. They are out there interacting with people. They are not trying to just live their lives.

And so there needs to be a bit of, I think, an inquisition within the lgbt community if the community wants. I actually think that's, like, the number one thing that the lgbt community can do is find the ill actors within their community, because I don't think it's good if you allow outside groups to do that, which right now is what's being forced is they're pushing it. But I've seen increasingly, like, very reasonable trans people channel I've been watching recently, my post on the screen here that is basically dedicated to doing this as a trans guy who's dedicated to doing this, and I really appreciate his efforts. To calling out people who seem to be in the movement for exploitative reasons. Yeah.

Simone Collins
Nice. So there is a backlash forming. People are pushing back, let's say. I would say that a lot of lesbians, maybe unfairly branded as terfs, have been fighting back for a while. I don't know if this is necessarily new.

Malcolm Collins
They have. They've been getting beaten up in bars. And then it's so sad, because I've heard these things on, like, the lesbian subreddit, where one woman was like, this is when I realized that the community had turned against me, is when a couple trans women overheard another lesbian woman say that she didn't want to. Like, she wasn't even talking to them, that she didn't want to date trans women, and they beat her up, and that this was being cheered as, like, a positive thing in the lesbian subreddit. And then she realized, oh, everyone in this Reddit thread basically still is a sexually aggressive cis man pretending to be a lesbian.

Because who else, even a real trans person, wouldn't be cheering that, right? The only people who would be cheering that are sexually aggressive cis men pretending. To be lesbians or people who are just performatively woke in a way where no matter what, if someone meets a certain classification, you have to be on their side. You cannot say anything in criticism of them. Yeah.

And for this reason, I think that the woke movement's greatest victim has been the real lgbt community. Yeah, no kidding. Like you said, they. They have been used the same way that hospitals have been used by Hamas. Just put them up like a shield.

Yeah. And then use them to grow it's. Terrifying. Oh, wait. But by the way, the halak thing, just so people know how big he is, he walked for several fashion brands at New York Fashion Week, including the opening ceremony and Studio 189 and Chromatous.

Oh, and Harry's. And Polaroid eyewear. Polaroid eyewear. And he's appeared in editorials in Vode, Italy, Bust magazine, Wussy magazine, and paper magazine. So I'm not talking about a fringe.

Anyway, love you to Desmond. And I really am excited to see the lgbt community beginning to clean itself up. And recently I was asked by someone, I think right now, given what the urban monoculture is doing by promoting these sexually aggressive cis men as transgender people and then protecting them, gay rights now is fundamentally a right wing issue because they're the only group that has a real sustainable plan for gay rights, and they're the only group with a sizable mass that has a real sustainable plan for gay rights. And again, I have to point out, Trump was the first president ever elected in the United States who, when he was elected, supported gay marriage. Obama election.

Simone Collins
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obama didn't get elected with that stance. Right? Yeah. I don't think he ever, like, really, truly held it.

Malcolm Collins
I think that he's actually much more conservative on gay stuff than people think. And I think Trump much more progressive on gay stuff than people think because he was a New York liberal for, like, how many decades? Of course, he didn't care. And this is reflected in Trump ensuring that in his I 2024 election cycle, that marriage in the RNC platform itself is not defined as between a man and a woman. So to those Republicans who I know we get a few people in our comments who are like, well, blah, blah, blah, you know, it's not real marriage.

And it's like, okay, even if I agree with you on that point, it doesn't affect my marriage that they are getting married. And even if I believe it's a sin, that doesn't mean that my marriage is without sin. Drink, for example. That's a sin. I play video games.

That's a sin. Are you living a marriage without sin? But you now represent even the minority among republican voters. You know, you act like I am the extreme progressive among the republican voters when my position is actually normative among the republican base. Now you are the extremists who are fighting for a position that could not even win if the entire american electorate was just made up of Republicans.

All you are doing by getting this type of language in to bills and putting it out there for the public to hear is to convince the lgbt community of what the left wants them to believe. But what is not true, which is that Republicans are out to get them. Literally. You do more to hurt the party's chance of election and the chance of getting our legislation passed than your average Democrat does anyway. Love you to death, Simone.

And you are an amazing woman. You're perfect. I love you so much.

Simone Collins
And there. I've been looking forward to this all day. Oh, my. And keep. Okay.

Malcolm Collins
Octavian, are you gonna get the corn? I got my corn.

Octavian
Here you go. Take him. Oh, thanks. Do you like it when food comes on a train? Yay.

I look here.

Getting another corn on it quickly.

You get that, okay? Oh, yeah. I can't eat this. Well done. It was two one.

And I have this. I got it for you. No, you got this moment, Octavian. You guys have to eat it, okay? You gotta eat it, Octavian.

Simone Collins
You also need to eat it, okay? Oh, who's gonna get the broccoli? Kaden Shirti doesn't want any more food like these. Only here. It's okay.

Octavian, you take the food that you're going to eat, okay? You don't want food?

Octavian
Broccoli and carrots. The protection is different for me. Okay. I want my baby.