Live: Eric Balchunas on The $ETH ETF Launch

This episode covers the launch of the Ethereum ETF, featuring guest Eric Balchunas from Bloomberg, discussing the significance and performance of the ETF on its first trading day.

1. The Ethereum ETF launch was successful, with trading volumes reaching over $1 billion on the first day.
2. The ETF's performance was better than expected, achieving 23% of the Bitcoin ETF's debut volume.
3. Ethereum ETFs are marketed as a tech play, emphasizing their utility compared to Bitcoin's store of value.
4. Major financial firms like BlackRock and Fidelity are actively promoting Ethereum ETFs.
5. The success of the Ethereum ETF is expected to attract more institutional investors to the crypto market.

1: Introduction and Overview

The episode begins with an introduction to the Ethereum ETF launch and its significance.

• "The SEC approved ETF applications from major firms, marking a historic day for the crypto industry."

2: Performance Analysis

Eric Balchunas discusses the first day's performance of the Ethereum ETF.

• "Solid is what I would go with. The ETF achieved 23% of what the Bitcoin ETF did on its first day."

3: Market Dynamics

Comparison of the Ethereum ETF launch with previous ETF debuts.

• "Even the one that did the least good had $8 million in trading, more than 90% of new ETF volume on day one."

4: Trading Volumes and Investor Interest

Importance of trading volumes and investor interest in the ETF's success.

• "Volume is just good to get something going, a little mojo."

5: Marketing Strategies

Discussion on the marketing strategies employed by firms like BlackRock.

• "Ethereum is marketed as a global platform for applications without decentralized intermediaries."

6: Future Outlook

Predictions for the future performance of Ethereum ETFs.

• "We'll see how the flows and volumes play out in the next few weeks."

7: Conclusion

Reflection on the potential impact of Ethereum ETFs on the market.

• "This is a milestone of the industry, marking the maturity for us all."

1. Monitor ETF Volumes: Keep an eye on trading volumes to gauge market interest and liquidity.
2. Understand ETF Fees: Be aware of the fee structures of different ETFs to optimize investment returns.
3. Diversify Investments: Consider adding a mix of Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs for diversified exposure.
4. Stay Updated: Follow market trends and updates from major financial firms promoting ETFs.
5. Evaluate Long-Term Potential: Assess the long-term potential of Ethereum as a tech play compared to Bitcoin's store of value.

The Ether spot ETF has officially started trading as of today July 23rd, 2024 marking a landmark day for Ethereum and crypto as a whole. We're going live today to discuss the magnitude of this moment and what it means for Ether the asset, and more broadly the entire crypto industry. This is a big deal and we're stoked to be sharing this moment live with the Bankless Nation.

People

Eric Balchunas

Companies

BlackRock, Fidelity, 21 Shares, Bitwise, iShares, Franklin Templeton, Invesco, Galaxy

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Eric Balchunas

Content Warnings:

None

Speaker A
Welcome back to Squat Box this morning spot Ethereum ETF set to begin trading today. The SEC approved ETF applications from 21 shares bitwise, BlackRock, Fidelity, iShares, Benec and Franklin Templeton as long as along with Invesco, Galaxy, bankless nation. After a long, chaotic rollercoaster of drama, surprises and plot twists, we have arrived at Tuesday the 23rd, the first day of the spa ether ETF's. And at 04:30 p.m. eastern time, we have concluded the first day of trading of the ETF.

Speaker B
That is, that day is behind us. Thank God the day is behind us. We've got on the show today Eric Baltzunas, one of the Bloomberg ETF boys, back for the crypto industry's second ETF debut. Eric, welcome back to bankless. How did today go?

Were there any surprises? Did we overperform? Did we underperform? What were their performance expectations at all? Tell us, like, first thoughts, what stands out the most.

Speaker C
Solid is what I would go. I would say a solid a, maybe not an a plus. You know, I'd say our prediction was that these things would take or do about 20% of what the spot bitcoin ETF's did, and they did 23%. So. But, you know, it could have been worse that they could.

You know, the big thing that had was in the back of my mind the whole time was the ETH futures ETF's, if you remember, really fopped. They were almost like an embarrassment. Nobody cared. And the bitcoin futures ETF did really well. Now, granted, the ETH futures launched post SPF in the, in the dark times, whereas the bitcoin futures launched in like the 69,000 peak of 2021.

But still, I would say anybody who's an ether person should be really happy with this. This is solid. 20% may seem like, well, I'm a little jealous, but the bitcoin ETF's was the biggest launch ever and beyond normalcy, almost like an anomaly in physics. So it'd be like saying, hey, would you like 20% of Bill Gates net worth? And you'd be like, hell yeah, I would lock into that.

That's sort of what this is like. I would not compare it.

That's how big the bitcoin ETF's were compared to a normal launch. I mean, these blow everybody away. So, like, for example, even the one that did the least good, which was 21 shares, had 8 million in trading. That's more than 90% of new ETF volume on day one. So even the last one blew away the normal, the norm.

And it all went well. There was no hiccups, no weird pricing or nothing that I saw. So I think it went really well. Smoothly and solid is how I'd put it. I will take a solid a.

Speaker B
As a formerly b student, I'll definitely take the a. What was the final volume number for the day? What do we. We passed a billion dollars in trading volume. Cumulatively, what did we end up at?

Speaker C
1 billion or one spot zero eight three. So just shy of 1.1 billion. And notable is that all of them saw double over 10 million, except for 21 shares. That's good. There was a strong middle class here.

It wasn't like Blackrock did almost everything, and then everybody else was starving. They all did pretty well. It was a nice cascade from grayscale to blackrock to fidelity, down to 21 shares. The one thing also to note is that the grayscale eth, ETF, which is probably going to be like an unlock, sort of like GBTC, that has $450 million of trading. That's probably mostly outflows.

Good news is it's well overwhelmed by the inflows of the other guys. So you have 600 something million net the other guys did over ETH, which that's probably going to at some point. It's a good chunk of that's going to be inflow. So look for some decent chunky inflows over the next couple of days. Yeah.

Speaker B
And so I think there's two big metrics that everyone's looking at right now. I think we started the day at $3,500 on ether, dropped down $100 at the bottom, but we're staying flat overall on the day. And so you're saying that we're getting basically complete outflows out of grayscale, which is to be expected. We saw this coming because this is what happened with bitcoin, etfeminal. Everything else was inflows.

You and James on Twitter have been talking a lot about volume trading. Volume, which I know is a very important metric of health for these ETF's, that trade. But what about net inflows? How do we have any sort of indication about the inflows of these things? Well, I don't know if you can bring up the tweet I just put out, like five minutes ago.

Speaker C
This is not quite the final numbers, but it's close. Boom. No, that's the next one. That's my wife and kids, which is always fun to talk about. Okay, so you see how grayscale is 458.

That's bad. But you see how the rest, if you subtract the total from 458, you get like, 600 million and change. That's good. So in other words, grayscale can only be outflows and the rest can only be inflows. Yes.

Speaker B
Okay. Yes. Okay. I mean, I guess it's possible people bought ETH at 2.5%, but it would be silly. That would be weird.

Speaker C
And normally, if you have ETF's trading on day one, all the volume is people buying it because there are no holders yet. So who would be selling it? So it's all going to be buying pretty much now. There is some market makers and hedge funds who might have been doing some arb, but even that could convert into flows. But there is some trading going on.

That may not be like a one to one flow thing, but I'd say, largely speaking, that's probably true. Okay, so we're looking at maybe extremely roughly, we'll know more in the future, but about $100 million of inflows into the ETF once you net out the grayscale outflows. Can we talk about the grayscale mini eth trust? And this had the same exact structure with the bitcoin trust, but I honestly still find it confusing. So Grayscale put in 10% of their aum into the mini eth trust.

Speaker B
It's at a much lower fee. I think it's at 0.15% yearly fee versus the 2.5% fees of the grayscale EtH trust. And this is something that I think is both very similar to the bitcoin ETF story, the GPTC story, but it's also different in the fact that the bitcoin grayscale mini trust came so much later in the lifespan of the bitcoin ETF's, whereas with Ethereum, we have it right here and now. Can you talk about how this mini trust is impacting the story? It's a new variable.

Speaker C
So it looks like it did $94 million worth of, I'm sorry, $63 million worth of trading.

They just basically got that as a dividend almost. So a billion dollars is in that fund at the beginning of the day. Now, is that money people leaving because they're just so pissed at grayscale? They're like, I don't care if I got this new cheaper one, or is it new people who are like, hell yeah, 15 basis points. I will buy that as a fresh person.

This is where we're going to really learn about Grayscale's brand and the reputation if their brand took, because their brand took a little beating. The GBTC outflows, definitely, especially in the crypto world. I don't know if it translates to like normal boomers or whatever, but we'll see. If eth, if that volume is inflows, that's a good sign for Grayscale, a relief. If those are outflows and they're big ones outflows, that's a bad sign for them because it shows that they can't even rectify the situation with literally the cheapest one on the market.

Unknown. Unknown. How do you think this goes from here? We just got day one of trading volume. I mean, some data, but not that much data.

Speaker B
What are you looking forward for as we finish off this week and as we enter next week? Is this just all trading volumes that you're looking at? Yes, all trading volumes. And why are trading volumes so important? Because, okay, first of all, most investors and traders and institutions, anybody of any size, even retail, they just like to see some volume.

Speaker C
It's like you don't want to buy something that never trades. It's like the spreads are wider. You don't want to be the only person at a party. So volume is just good to get something going, a little mojo. They also lower the spread so the price of going in and out is lowered by the more people that trade it, the more market makers are making markets in it.

And so you have a tight spread, and then you have a, over time, the volume is big fish bait. The more volume, if these ETF's, this couple of them can start trading three, $400 million a day. There's going to be bigger and bigger fish that are like, well, I think I could go in there, nobody would notice. Big investors like to put on positions and not have anybody know they're there. And if they become too much of the volume, they don't like that.

So the more volume you have, the more chance you have of catching a big fish. So that's why it's important. And on day one, again, ETH is unusual ethe, but mostly the volume is new people buying. So it's a signal of inflows, like eating indicator. So those would be the reasons that we really look for volume, as I said earlier, and I always say that the two most important ingredients for an ETF category to grow are low fees and high volume.

And these already have a lot. On day one, they got the low fees, obviously, and then here comes the volume. You're in good shape. Then there's no reason outside of just not being into ether to buy them. Not buy them.

It just removes all the possible hurdles to purchasing them. Like, I'm into it, but it's too expensive, or I'm into it, it's enough. I don't know, it's just not enough liquidity. You eliminate all that, I'm into it, but there's no big brand names. So again, you've got, you check all the boxes.

Speaker B
And so I think the point that you're really trying to drive home is there are some people who just will include most things into their portfolio because they want a diversified portfolio across all different asset classes, all different investments. And so if we have a certain number of boxes checked, which are big brands, like perhaps Blackrock, low fees, like perhaps 20 bps, 0.15 percentage points, all the low fees that we see here, and then also a high number of trading volumes, which we are definitely seeing. You're saying that this checks a lot of boxes for potential investors portfolios, and so it almost puts the barrier of investment of the bearer, the burden of proof onto the bear rather than the bull. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, I would say so again, this reminds me of the bitcoin launch.

Speaker C
Like, I see launches all the time. There's two ETF's launch every day in America and about six globally. It's weird for them. If one trades over a million dollars on day one, it's like, ooh, that's interesting. You notice that, right?

So if you have a list of some that are trading well over 10 million, it's weird. It's completely abnormal. So it's just a little bit in the shadow of bitcoin. So all this stuff is relativity here, but in the end, you're looking at the second biggest launch ever. Probably second biggest launch ever.

Yeah, I would say so. I mean, there's a couple caveats to that, but largely speaking, and these are all organic numbers, I want to see the flows after a couple of weeks to start comparing it. But it's right up there, we're talking top 1% launches. Top 1% launches. Oh, yeah.

Speaker B
We already know that bitcoin is on a trajectory to just demolish the gold ETF record. I think it already has in its early days. And every single day it continues. Bitcoin continues to beat gold volume records. And bitcoin, if I'm understanding correctly, is the number one ETF launch in terms of all, like, plausible metrics.

And you're saying ether is coming in at number two. Is that true? Do we need to qualify that. How true is that? Well, we have to see what happens.

Speaker C
Gold traded over a billion on day one. And that was back when a billion was like not as bigger deal. Yeah, yeah, a bigger deal. But there's a couple of caveats here. Let's say there was only one ether ETF, right?

There was only one gold ETF, so it had the whole thing to itself. Well, you're looking at potentially a billion if it was only one. Let's say ETh converted. That's a weird. The whole thing's a little weird because of ETH, but youre looking at a billion in the group again.

GLD traded a billion on day one and that was the record for a long time until bitcoin came along. So the group thing makes it a little weird, but lets just see how it plays out in the next days. My guess is if we look at the fastest ETF's, to say a billion or 5 billion or 10,000,000,001 or two of these will be in the top ten, top 20, you know what I mean? Um, again, the problem is nothing's going to really knock off ibit. I think ibit's going to hold a lot of those records and Etha won't catch ibit, but it'll, it'll be in the mix.

So, um, yeah, I would say as a group, you're looking at it tied gold. Eric, I remember you. There's one caveat there. Sure. I will say gold took in a billion and flows the first day.

Sorry. So these will not do that. But the billion in volume is going to be again right up there with any launch we've ever seen. Now, again, the next couple of days will be interesting to see how much comes in as cash and where we are after, say a week or so. Do you have any indication as to the speed of grayscale outflows as it relates to the bitcoin grayscale ETF outflows?

Speaker B
If I remember correctly, we all got caught by surprise when the bitcoin ETF's launched because both we were caught by surprise because there was so much demand, but then there was also so much outflows out of grayscale. Both things caught us by surprise. Do we have any sort of indication as like the speed of the eth e outflows out of grayscale? Do you think that will happen faster? Do you think that will happen slower or do you have any data about that whatsoever?

Speaker C
Hard to tell. I will say that the grayscale GBTC traded like 2 billion or over 2 billion on the first day. And that was a lot for the market to stomach, right? Remember the first couple of weeks of that thing were brutal. 458 isnt that bad, but the markets smaller.

So proportionally speaking 458 would be about 2020, 3% of GBTCs volume. So I guess if were going to proportionalize it, this will be a much smaller unlock but maybe percentage wise the same, if you know what I mean. So if this thing sees like 50 million of outflows, that would be the equivalent of like 250 million day for GBTC. Right. So we have to sort of like, I think we almost have to like divide everything by five, is that right?

Divide by. Yeah, or multiply by one fifth, whatever we want to do. I think we sort of have to like do that thing to get an answer. It looks like it's going to be dissimilar in a parallel universe, but the numbers will all be smaller, right? Yeah.

Speaker B
Right, right, right. Eric, I remember after the bitcoin ETF's and as we get into the ETH ETF season, you were talking about the liner, the one liner for explaining ether. Ether has always had a harder story to tell Wall street tradfi about why people should be interested in it. And I want to get your perspective on that. But first, before we get to all that conversation and a few other things I want to talk to you about, we got to talk to our sponsors that make this show possible.

So we'll be right back with some of these other topics.

And we're back and Eric is on better Internet. I want to bring up the marketing conversation here about the ether ETF's because that's always one of the most interesting things about these ETF stories is all of a sudden we have an army of salespeople on Wall street talking to large capital pools about why they might be interested in the bitcoin ETF's. And now the ether ETF's. Here's a tweet from you yesterday, Eric saying, here's Blackrock's ether pitch to normies via Jacob. While many see bitcoin's appeal in its scarcity, many find Ethereum's appeal in its utility.

You can think of Ethereum as a global platform for applications that run without decentralized intermediaries. This is just the Blackrock pitch. So this is the Blackrock marketing material to their customers. But also we are seeing, bitwise, the websites, the Blackrock websites, the fidelity websites, all kind of popping up trying to sell the ether ETF. I'm wondering, Eric, you've been watching this journey of the Ethereum community, myself and Ryan included, trying to really figure out how to sell ether.

Is there anything you've any knowledge that you've gained either today or in the last month or so about Wall street appetite, Wall street interest, or just the marketing narrative for ether? The asset? Yeah, so its interesting. I feel as though one of the strongest ways to sell bitcoin is as digital gold. But why do you want gold anyway?

Speaker C
You want gold to store value. Why do you want that? Well the dollar is being devalued by government. So the bitcoin is to protect you from your government devaluing the dollar. Thats the pitch.

I would take a parallel which is that you know how the two or three tech companies seem to run the Internet and can like to completely like take you out whenever they want. This is an Internet that nobody can do that on. That's sort of in my opinion, the problem or the worry that a normal person would have. I don't think anybody's comfortable that like Amazon and like two other tech companies like can just do whatever they want on the web. It is centralized and it can be scary.

There's a little overwhelming factor I think most people that makes them nervous. Ether is something. And I'd even go to the guy who came up with it, his story of like not liking his freedom taken away from in this video game. Hey look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something where that can't happen. That's an understandable business.

People all business all the time, or start off somebody's pissed off about a current state of things and they're like, I want to do it a better way. It's a perfect capitalist story. And here you have really smart people developing this new way of doing it. And ether is the gasoline that you have to buy to do the apps and stuff. So I like that story.

And the fact that it's a little more of a tech play, it's a little more like a tech stock, whereas bitcoin is truly like golden. But I do find that one thing I haven't seen bring up yet is this idea of, hey, does it worry you that a couple companies have so much power, a couple tech companies, they're getting bigger and bigger? That's my one thing. Otherwise you're just sell on, hey, don't miss out on this thing that you don't understand. And that's a little weaker.

I think you have to really go through. I'd even like when I explain ETF's people. And I'm like, why they work so well. I go to the story of the guy who invented the ETF and what problem he was trying to solve. He was third in exchange trading.

He was an american stock exchange, was lagging NASDAQ and nice, and they wanted no stocks would list there. It's like, we'll eff it. We'll make our own thing. That's really cool. And people want to trade.

And they invented a basket of the S and P 500. And it was. And it worked. They got, they were able to, it was a invention is the mother of. No necessity is the mother of invention.

So they were kind of forced to do this. And then I go over where they got the idea for the design and the paradigm they used. I know in bitcoin, one thing that worked with me is the military background that the system was based on. And in the cold war, again, I never hear anybody, I was like, that's really cool. I would.

Again, I would go through the actual story instead of just, it's this thing over here, because I think people can't even conceptualize. How do I even get to it? Where does it live? What does it do? I would almost, like, do a little more storytelling if I were trying to explain this to somebody.

And normally you have to read a book to get all that. But Ishare is doing their best here. But that'd be one thing I would recommend. Yeah, I think people are going back and forth on the tech platform angle. Some are seeing that as the more interesting aspect for Wall street investors because tech is generally associated with very high returns.

Speaker B
That's been the sector of investment over the last ten plus years or so that has outperformed most other things. But then others are saying, like, well, tech is also undifferentiated because with bitcoin, there's only one gold on the Internet. But there can be many tech platforms. Do you have a take between these two takes?

Speaker C
There could be many tech platforms. In other words. Wait, ether would not be the only one. Yeah. Ethereum is not the only smart contract platform that exists.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Crypto space. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's. That's definitely a little bit of a challenge. I think also the idea that people wanted to make something that was faster, you know, bitcoin is very secure, but it's not fast. Right.

It. It doesn't. It doesn't want to be fast. So I would maybe play with the idea that this is a way to use the blockchain technology for speed. Um, and that, you don't get that at bitcoin.

You know, bitcoin is security. This is more utility and speed. Am I right? I'm not. I'm novice at this.

So I'd almost turn it over to you on whether that's too simple. But you are right. There would be now competitors to ether for sure, down the road. But you got a good head start on them, I think, and you got a bigger market cap. So one thing I'm interested to see is some of the surface area between the cross pollination of Blackrock's products, specifically.

Speaker B
So you have Blackrock trying to promote their bildle fund, their tokenized treasuries on Ethereum. And now they also have an Ethereum ETF, which means Ethereum has two products that has been able to create for Blackrock. And hearing Larry Fink talk about tokenization and identity, I kind of think that there is going to be more than just a handful of ethereum based products that Blackrock is going to be able to serve. And all of a sudden, when like more than a handful of products come out of Blackrock, all based on Ethereum, all of a sudden I think maybe that starts to really fill in gaps of what investors understand, what Ethereum can be. I would agree with that.

Speaker C
That said, a little more bear tokenization than most people. I feel as though you like the. Securitization, not the tokenization. I don't know, maybe it's just the words we're using, but I don't know if there's a, it's going to be difficult for tokenization to disrupt ETF's. Now there are places ETF's can't go where tokens, I think would be a great solution.

But the ETF is a mutual fund, regulate the highest regulatory standards. I don't even know how you get a token through that law. It'd be difficult. And now with an ETF, theyre fast, good and cheap. I mean, you can get almost anything now with a click of a button.

Its very convenient. Theres no friction and theres almost no cost. Its very difficult to disrupt. Its like trying to disrupt Amazon as a startup. Its going to be very difficult.

But im keeping my mind open. But certainly if blackrock starts doing things like money market funds, which are not, that theyre a little clunkier than an ETF, if they can tokenize a couple things here and there, yeah, I think that would help ethers case because it shows it in practice. One last question I got for you, Eric, before I let you go, we have a lot of the same contenders here with the ETH ETF's that we have in the bitcoin ETF's. In fact, I think it's the same set of players. One thing I'm keeping my eye on is bitwise's market share of the ETH ETF as it compares to their market share of the bitcoin etfeminal.

Speaker B
And if you've been paying attention to kind of like the inside baseball, in the crypto space, fidelity are known as these bitcoiners. The fidelity people are bitcoiners. And the bitwise people tend to be a little bit more ethereum. Ethereum aligned. They are much more into some of the on chain ethereum products.

Fidelity got into crypto, I think, even before Ethereum was even a thing. And one thing I've noticed is that the bitwise share of the ETh of the Ethereum volumes is higher proportionally to what it was with the bitcoin ETF's. I'm wondering if you've picked up on any differences in the shakeups on the winners of the bitcoin ETF's versus the winners of the ETH ETF's. Yeah, I mean, I would say that Ark not being part of 21 shares, it seemed to hurt it a little bit because Ark washing in the top three, it was like tied with bitwise for third place. That's a little unusual.

Speaker C
21 shares is largely a european company, so I think Ark gave them like a us face here a little more. But I have no doubt they'll get some share. That's one noticeable thing. Bit wise, always outperforming. This is an indie small company.

They don't really have any business being nestled between Fidelity and Grayscale. Good for them. And van Eck Franklin about where I thought Fidelity has always been like a strong second, especially in the bitcoin race. They now have 10 billion inflows, whereas Ibid is about to hit 20 billion. But then there's the drop off to 3 billion.

So I would see it looks like we're going to be headed to the same place where you're going to have ishares, say, at, let's say hypothetical 5 billion, fidelity at 2.5 billion, and then maybe like a couple at 800 million. I could see a world where it's like that. It looks like it's shaping. This is one day, but we'll see. But Fidelity has something Blackrock doesn't even have, which is a massive army of advisors.

So once they get into something or want to put it in their model or their clients models, it's like they can just get a lot of money just like that. It's a captive audience to a degree for them. Blackrock doesn't even have that, although they have models for other things, but is powerful. Well, Eric, we're at the end of the trading day. Like I've said, 05:00 p.m.

Speaker B
time to wrap up the workday for us on the, on the east coast. I appreciate you coming on the show. Give us a little sneak peek of your life as you are paying attention to the ETH ETF's up until the remainder of this week and also for next week. What are the things you're looking at? What are the places you're going to get information?

What are the conversations that are going around in this space that you're paying attention to overall? Just give us a sneak peek of your ETH ETF related life as this week draws to a close. Well, I'll be watching the flows in the assets this week, see where we're at. And then the second day volume, third day volume volume tends to drop off. Will these have a little lift?

Speaker C
The bitcoin ETF's actually had a little lift. And then will they have a second win like in week two or three? Or will they just have this big launch day and then slowly trickle off? We'll see. The other thing I'm looking for is just how the messaging plays out.

I saw bitwises attempt at it. I saw blackrocks. Ether to me potentially has more angles you can approach it from. So I'll be interested to see the marketing and how that is different by issuer. Again, this is such an interesting case study for analysts because you've got all these launching on the same day, so you sort of have a lot of variables removed and you can sort of then isolate things like fees, but all the fees are the same.

So then it really comes down to marketing and hustle and size. And so it helps us get some knowledge for like what works in the ETF market overall. So like I said, this is, it's small relative to the whole size of the ETF market, but is a very useful case study for an analyst to monitor. So we will look at all angles of it. Well, Eric, it's been great for having you and James commentary, both with the bitcoin ETF's and now the ETH ETF's.

Speaker B
When do you think we'll have you back on? I'm sad that this is over, because now we have these two main products that are out and live. We have over 70% of the total crypto market cap represented on Wall street in these ETF formats. Where do you think our relationship with the Bloomberg ETF boys goes? Well, we're available.

Speaker C
You know, we'll, I would say maybe check back in in two or three weeks. Then we can really pick apart the flows and the assets and the grayscale unlock, and we're all shook out. This will take a couple days, if not a couple of weeks, to really see, like, okay, what the hell happened? Well, Eric, thanks again for coming on. You guys heard it from Eric.

Speaker B
We got a solid aethere of the Eth ETL launch. No small potatoes. Isn't that right, Eric? I remember. I take that phrase back.

Speaker C
It was too dismissive. That said, we were kind of right. This would be a smaller, a fifth of what the bitcoin ETF. But small potatoes is not. It's not my style to be that dismissive.

It was the bad choice of words, and I reminded of that almost every day. I'm sure you are, as crypto Twitter will always do if you say something that they do not like. Eric, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Talk to you later.

Speaker B
Bye. Bankless nation. You guys know the deal. Crypto is risky, whether it's on chain or in Wall street. You know the deal.

Uh, you can lose what you put in, but we are headed west. Even though the ETF's are something fantastic to celebrate, it's a milestone of the industry, the mark of maturity for us all. It's something that is required for our number to go up. But nonetheless, I prefer my ether on chain, prefer my ether in my wallet. So I'll celebrate this, but I will still be self sovereign, and I'll still be bankless.

So thank you for joining us here today on the banklessation. Cheers.