Big-Pharma Insider: "They Want Us Sick!"- Exposing The Truth About Chronic Disease # 461

This episode discusses the intricate relationships between big pharma, government agencies, and our healthcare system, highlighting how these interactions contribute to the prevalence of chronic disease in America.

1. The pharmaceutical industry profits significantly from the continuation and expansion of chronic diseases.
2. Media and political narratives around health are heavily influenced by pharmaceutical funding.
3. Preventative health measures and holistic approaches are often overshadowed by more profitable pharmaceutical interventions.
4. The current healthcare system may prioritize profit over effective health outcomes.
5. There's a call for a significant paradigm shift towards health systems that prioritize genuine wellness and prevention.

1: Introduction

Aubrey Marcus introduces the episode and sets the stage for a deep dive into the problematic incentives in healthcare. Callie Means: "We are at the most interesting time, right where the people who are supposed to be taking care of us, seem to have a different agenda in mind."

2: The Problem with Big Pharma

Discussion on how pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare industry profit from the sickness of the population. Callie Means: "The largest industry in the country, again, just as a statement of economic fact, makes money when we get sick."

3: Media Influence and Public Policy

Exploration of how media and political contributions by pharma shape public perception and policies related to health. Aubrey Marcus: "But the problem is, is that every major broadcast is brought to you by Pfizer, brought to you by Pfizer, brought to you by Pfizer over and over again."

4: Solutions and Changes

Callie Means suggests changes that could lead to a healthier future, emphasizing the need for a shift in how health and wellness are approached. Callie Means: "It is absolutely devastating to the healthcare industry if we get healthier, because our economy, so much of it, is propelled by this industry that needs us sick."

1. Educate yourself about the origins of prescriptions and treatments. Knowing the financial motivations behind certain healthcare practices can inform more autonomous health decisions.
2. Advocate for transparency in healthcare funding and policy making. Understanding who funds what can reveal potential biases in healthcare information and policy.
3. Support holistic health measures. Emphasize diet, exercise, and preventive care in personal choices and advocate for their inclusion in public health policy.
4. Question the narratives presented by mainstream media. Be critical of health information, especially when it is indirectly sponsored by pharmaceutical companies.
5. Promote and engage in conversations about alternative health approaches. Share and discuss less mainstream, non-pharmaceutical methods of maintaining health.

In this eye-opening, paradigm shattering podcast, we dive deep into the murky waters of the healthcare and food industries with insider revelations that will leave you shocked and well informed. Calley Means, a Big-Pharma insider turned whistleblower, uncovers the startling truth behind why we’re the sickest we’ve ever been and how we can reclaim control over our health.

From the sinister collaboration between Big Food and Pharma to the alarming incentives driving the trillion-dollar industry against our well-being, this podcast episode pulls no punches in exposing the ruthless profit game played at the expense of our health. Calley shares firsthand accounts and expert insights, revealing how we're being poisoned by the very systems meant to keep us healthy. This isn't just about statistics or theories; it's a wake-up call, a call to action, and a rallying cry against the forces conspiring to keep us sick.

People

• Aubrey Marcus
• Callie Means

Companies

• Major pharmaceutical companies discussed in general terms

Books

• None mentioned

Guest Name(s):

• Callie Means

Content Warnings:

• None

Aubrey Marcus
Callie means broke the Internet when he went on Tucker Carlson's show to expose how corporate interests have captured our governmental agencies and are leading us on a path of dis ease and unhealth rather than human thriving and true health care. In this podcast, we talk about all of the crazy phenomenon that is happening that is leading us to be one of the sickest nations in the world and also sicker than we ever have been. All of the advancements in science and technology are not driving us to health. And in this podcast, you'll start to understand why and how money has played a role in creating the situation that we're currently facing. This podcast is wildly eye opening, so I encourage you to listen with an open mind and be willing to explore the shadow to see the.

The possibility of a future that is far brighter than the one we're currently in. So I'm excited to introduce to you Cali means. But before we get started, a word from our sponsors. First up, we have mud water. So if you guys have been listening to the show for a while, you know that I've been talking about mud water for years, because I've been using mud water for years.

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Aubrey Marcus
Callie, thanks for joining me. Well, I'm pumped. A beer. Yeah, absolutely. We are at the most interesting time, right where the people who are supposed to be taking care of us, the people who are supposed to be looking after our health, seem to have a different agenda in mind, seem to have a different motivating factor than actually the health and wellness of our people.

Theres just a simple economic fact. Lets not get conspiratorial, lets not get emotional. Were being poisoned as a population at scale. And thats happening because the largest industry in the country, again, just as a statement of economic fact, makes money when we get sick or when we get more depressed, when we get more infertile. The healthcare is the largest industry in the country, its the fastest growing industry in the country.

More mortgages when we drive through a neighborhood are paid for by the healthcare industry. More people, their dignity is tied to that industry. Its an amoeba that built to grow. And I worked for pharma and I worked for the food industry which we can get into, they're very connected. And the raw economic fact is that those industries are fueled by an imperative for not only for us to get sicker, but for kids to get sicker.

Chronic disease is the greatest economic invention, the greatest profit maximizing invention in human history, because it's recurring revenue and we don't die right away and we think our savior's in a pill. We live in fear, we're told to trust the system and we keep racking up pills. There's close to 5 billion prescriptions per american per year, almost 5 billion prescriptions in America. And those are almost all for chronic conditions. So unpacking that as my life's work and really unwinding what I saw early in my career working for these industries.

Aubrey Marcus
Yeah, it's not only recurring revenue, but it's accruing, redoubling momentum, gaining revenue, because as we get sicker, the more prescriptions we need, the more procedures we need. Until ultimately you get to, in the most cynical way of looking at it, the big payoff, which is the long cancer treatments or the things that are racking up the millions of dollars going through the insurance companies. And this economic incentive people, it's funny, people seem, oh, they would never be moved by their economic incentives. Well in any game theory, when you set up the game theory with an economic incentive, the players in the game theory, even if it's self serving bias where they're not aware of the fact that they're acting in accordance to the game theory to make more money, they find themselves doing it. And so we don't need to ascribe malice unnecessarily where there's just actually a heuristic, a blindness, a bias.

But this is the system that we've created, a system where sickness equals profits and profits are the incentive for the people working within the system. I think the incentives are really important. So I was born and raised in Washington DC, we were very success driven. Like that's the trauma I'm trying to like get out from under. Like it was all about rising up the traditional ranks.

So I went to Stanford, studied economics, went into politics, you know, worked for the pharma industry, my sister went to Stanford med school, you know, was a surgeon, top of her class of a residency. That was what success was, and we were big defenders of the system. My sister was very formative for her, very formative for me. Eleven years into training, so she's worked at the NIH, top of her Stanford medical school class, as I said, president of her Stanford class, all the credentials. She's at the top of the game, and she realizes the patient passed out before her, who had a sinusitis.

So the sinuses were so inflamed, she had to put that patient under and cut out the remnants of the sinus infection. She realized that patient was under her knife six months before. And then she looked at the charts, and it was 50 page of charts, you know, diabetes, heart disease, depression, kidney issues, all the issues. She didn't even think ever to ask the other doctors. She didn't speak to those doctors.

And she realized, eleven years into training, she didn't actually understand why that patient had inflammation. And she thought it was her fault at first. But then she started tracing the incentives, and she started realizing that at Stanford medical School, not one class, not one lecture was on nutrition and actually tracing her course notes. 90% of the lectures, 90% of her course load was in pharmacology. And then she traced a little bit more.

And more than 50% of Stanford medical school's funding touches pharma in some way. So she realized, eleven years out, not. As an evil person, but she realized. She was in this system that is basically indoctrinated to her to cut open that patient. But nobody, like zero, from the medical.

Schools to her boss of the hospital, the pharma companies, everyone had plausible deniability from asking why those patients were sick in front of her. And she abruptly left the system. This all came together for me with my mom. It was the classic american story. So my mom, for 40 years, like the majority of Americans, is just racking up those chronic diseases.

I was born at twelve pounds and. You were born at twelve pounds. I was born at twelve pounds. Heavy boy. And, yeah, that's what everyone said.

Aubrey Marcus
And it was a high five heavyweight infant. It was high fives. And the hospital gave her a fake award. They were excited. It was like, congratulations from the doctors.

Young Tyson Fury. Yeah. And only later, decades later, did my. Sister and I realize that it's called fetal mechanoma. It's actually a condition, and it's actually a blaring warning sign that the mom has metabolic dysfunction.

Calley Means
It's a huge warning sign if you're. Much over nine pounds. So no warning on that. Had trouble losing weight, that's normal. Had high cholesterol, statin, had high blood sugar, metformin, had high blood pressure, ace inhibitor.

So all these appointments throughout the next 40 years, after I was born, it was just one chronic condition after the next, no problem, here's a pill. And actually, at 71 years old in early 2021, she was complimented by her doctor on being healthy on five medications. She was actually lower on the medication spectrum than an average seven year. And then she's hiking, she feels a pain in her stomach. She goes and gets a scan at Stanford hospital, and she gets a text a day later saying, stage four pancreatic cancer.

She's gonna die in a couple weeks. And that is the story of the american patient, right? She processed hundreds of thousands, if not, you know, well over a million dollars in fees and doctor's appointments and pharmaceutical treatments and interventions over that normal trajectory of chronic condition. And instead of just one time, right? If a doctor actually explained to her what the high cholesterol actually means, what's happening for the cells inside of her bodies, what obesity actually means, what high blood pressure actually means, not once even a well educated family, a daughter who's a doctor, not once did anyone sit her down and actually explain that these are all the same things.

They're all underlying metabolic dysfunction. And then, as you said, we've got all these chronic diseases exploding. And when doctor Fauci took over basically responsibility for chronic conditions, he had a lot of purview over that. Starting in 1980, our rate was under 10%. Now, at 65% of the american people have a chronic condition, 94% of us are metabolic dysfunctional.

So chronic disease rates, particularly among kids, of course, are exploding. But it's also, as you said then the big part is those are leading to the deadly things. And life expectancy in America is declining for the most sustained period since 1860. We are actually dramatically decreasing right now in life expectancy. Cause these things are leading to the heart disease, they're leading to the cancers, they're leading to the Alzheimer's, which is exploding.

So the little things are adding up to the big things, and that's then racking up a lot of money. It seems like with the industrial revolution of modernity, we got into this factory mindset. And where you have a machine, you tinker with it in the factory, and I think there's several parts of this. One is the efficiency from the factory system, like the assembly line. You go to the doctor now, and it's very much like an assembly line, you get three to five minutes.

Aubrey Marcus
You know, they read through the chart as fast as they can. They prescribe whatever fix they need, tighten this wrench with this pill, you know, fix this screw, do whatever this. Sometimes they have to use other tools and actually get their welders and their solders and whatever else. If you want to use that analogy, you like your car, and then they just move you through as fast as possible, because the more churn that they get, the more actually that the hospital will make money, the more the doctors will make money. So there's this factory efficiency model.

But then there's also another flawed element of this is to think of the human organism as a robotic machine. It's not everything is interconnected. All of these things weave together the heart, mind, body, soul, psyche. This is all part of one continuum, and we know that as a fact. We test for the placebo in every single clinical trial, which is the fact that the mind is influencing the body for different outcomes.

Doctors are trained against the nocebo effect, which is when the mind is weaponized against the body, right? So we understand that this is all a continuum, except this model of body as machine. And then the efficiency of a factory is just really how medicine is done in our country. And it's a huge fucking problem, because then nobody's talking to the actual person. Nobody's looking at the holistic history.

And like you said, for me, you know, an uncouth, uneducated, ignorant thing. You're a heavy boy. Well, I'm not a fucking doctor. I don't know. Even though I know a lot of things, I haven't heard about that.

So that might be excusable for me in my own ignorance, but for a doctor, no, they should start looking and then check in. There should be a system where it's like, hey, we noticed this. This could be normal, but this could lead to these things. Let's help you out on this journey here. Let's make sure that you're going to navigate yourself towards greater health.

The siloing of chronic conditions and a lack of any curiosity about the interconnectedness is the biggest issue in the country. It's the biggest medical scandal in the country. When my sister graduated from Stanford medical School, she had to choose, like all doctors, one of 42 specialties. So when a doctor graduates, they choose one of 42 parts of the body to devote their entire lives to. She, as I mentioned, was head and neck, you know, a couple square inches of the face.

And then if you do really well, you're like, the dean of Stanford med school during her time there, who did a fellowship in an even more narrow part of the face. So he was focused on about 2 mm. He had a disease named after him in the face, a minor's disease. Lloyd Minor. That's how you rise up.

You silo, more, more, more. But what's happening? 95% of healthcare costs, nine out of. Ten deaths in America, are tied to foodborne illnesses, are tied to metabolic conditions. Theyre all essentially the same thing, from diabetes to heart disease, even depression, which we can get into.

This was all actually systematically put into effect in 1909 by John D. Rockefeller. So John D. Rockefeller, as a byproduct of his oil exploration and seeing some of the chemicals that were byproducts of oil, he actually started the modern pharmaceutical industry. And we actually had a lot of.

Problems with medicine back then, but we. Were pretty good on chronic conditions. We were kind of holistic thinking. And he said, no, no, no. We need to silo.

Calley Means
We need to train doctors to silo a condition, because then it's treatable. Then we can drug it, or then we can do surgery. And he was the largest funder of medical schools who profited from doing surgeries. So he funded his lawyer, actually wrote the Flexner report. And you won't even believe this, but this, in 1909, it is the guiding document, the congressional law of medicine to this day.

And it said, every disease has to be silenced. We need to practice evidence based medicine. We need a placebo controlled trial for any intervention which actually just necessitates a pharmaceutical solution. Cause you can't have a placebo on exercise. Right?

You can't have a placebo on food. You actually. The entire construct of what the best in class research is, which we. I've just accepted that doctors, you know. Everyone, even that are awake, like us, I've accepted that until very.

Calley Means
Oh, we need a placebo controlled, double blind study. You can only do those on drugs? Yeah, I mean, people try to do it on exercise and food, but it's. It's a complicated process. You can't really do it on psychiatrists.

Aubrey Marcus
It'll be like. Yeah. It'll be like, all right, you do the standard, the sad diet, standard american diet, and you do a ketogenic diet, and then that's. But it's not blind. And it's not blind.

So it's actually not. It doesn't count. And you've got the people on Instagram, the evidence based community slamming. So you've actually, in this report, actually delegitimized any form of holistic health, any form of nutrition, any form of lifestyle. And you actually enshrined into law this system where we have to silo conditions, you know, for most up until world War two, you know, the modern medical innovations are actually pretty good, right?

We figured out antibiotics. We figured out emergency surgical procedures. We actually didn't have a chronic disease medication until the birth control pill in the late 1950s. So in about 1960, we spent almost 0% of the healthcare budget on chronic conditions. But very systematically, what the medical system did is took the trust engendered by life saving procedures on childbirth, appendicitis, sanitation procedures, antibiotics, all these things that actually had science at the all time trust.

They said, okay, great, now trust us on chronic. And right after birth control pill was Valium. And by the 1970s, 30% of women in the United States were on Valium. Time magazine, Valium Nation, you know, very addictive drug. And then just one after another after another, we started medicalizing chronic conditions.

So, as Peter Thias pointed out, and I think this is really something that's important for me to stress people. Listen to this. Oh, well, the medical system's in a miracle. Life expectancy is extended by double. That is not because of chronic conditions.

If you actually control for chronic conditions, life expectancy has been flat in the past 100 years. It's almost all driven by sanitation procedures and things that would have killed you right away. Childhood mortality. Giving birth for a woman in 1900. Was like a 2% death rate.

It was one of the most dangerous acts humans could do. So we did have miracles. And I'll stress this as strongly as I can say. If you have an acute issue, if something is about to kill your child, if they have an infection, if they have an emergency, 100%. Our medical system is amazing.

The problem is, that's less than 10% of our costs. That's not what's plaguing american life right now. What's plaguing us is chronic conditions. And we've had a complete kind of inability as a country to differentiate between those two. And, you know, one of the major issues here, and I heard you talk about this with Tucker Carlson, is that not only is this system in place, but getting the information out there, because information is now more readily available than ever.

Aubrey Marcus
And this information is available, but getting it out there to the population en masse would require mass media to be able to get on board with this. But the problem is, is that every major broadcast is brought to you by Pfizer, brought to you by Pfizer, brought to you by Pfizer over and over again on all of these things. So there's a capture of both media, and then with all of the campaign contributions and donations, there's a capture of politics so that our leaders and our spokespeople are not actually sharing this information either. So it's up to podcasts and people talking to other people to get this information out. But it's not moving fast enough to actually combat the effects of this deleterious system that's been and corrupt system that's been put in place.

Let's just set the context. I mean, in my opinion, we're coming off the worst public policy mistake, the worst public policy disaster of our lifetimes, certainly since World War two. One of the biggest mistakes in american history, which I think was the COVID response. We are going to be dealing with the economic, spiritual crisis of the COVID lockdowns for the next generation. We shut down the schools and kept the bars open during formative moments in children's lives, we kept them trapped, which we know just from all data that lacking connection for kids is a huge problem.

In 2020, 25% of all young adults contemplated suicide, which is one of the most shameful statistics I can even wrap my head around. We also, with what I call a foodborne illness, which is, I believe, what COVID was, where the research in early 2020 was clear that this preyed upon people that were metabolically unhealthy. No matter what age you were, this killed people that had multiple other comorbidities. You'd be hard pressed to find a person, any age, who had the five biomarkers of metabolic health, cholesterol, body weight, blood pressure, blood sugar. If somebody had those in check, they had almost 0% chance of dying of COVID But instead, trillions of dollars of airtime of the government microphone, of the media microphone was saying this was a pharmaceutical issue.

As you've talked about, RFK talks about, Joe Rogan talks about, everyone on independent media is talking about. That was one small, if any, part of the puzzle. COVID was an enormous wake up call that our immune systems are weak in America. In Japan, the childhood obesity rate is 3%. Here, it's about 25%.

And the COVID death rates kind of track that, too. We had a completely step function increase in issues with COVID versus european and asian countries because our immune systems are so weak. This is the biggest story in the world. The letdown of our medical system, the absolute violence that the american people are steel railing with, is something that truly is societally, generationally defining. And there's no curiosity about examining that on the media.

As you said, on independent media, it's. The number one topic. Whether it's a comedy podcast, whether it's a spiritual podcast, whatever topic is, even sports podcasts. We're talking about metabolic health, you can call it other names. We're talking about the fact that we are getting sicker as a country, that.

Our kids are getting sicker. This is just inevitably what the american people gravitate to. It's why RFK is the most popular politician among women, independents, I think by. Some measures the most popular politician in America, despite being absolutely vilified. So why does this happen?

And I think I really am trying. To evangelize, because we know there's a big problem. Like what, tactically, is the reason for this? The reason is that the healthcare industry is the largest funder of mainstream media. It's the largest funder of politicians, it's the largest funder of medical research, it's the largest funder of civil rights groups.

Calley Means
It'S the largest funder of almost any institution we can think of. Point to an institution, their bills are most likely paid by pharma, and their pharma is actually most likely the largest funder. Just take politicians that I mentioned. The pharmaceutical and healthcare industry spends five times more on direct political donations and. Lobbying than the oil industry.

Multiples more than any other industry. So when you just go through, you. Know, as particular issue, you know, I. Can take opioids, which I worked on. Twelve years ago, the opioid panel at the FDA that was approving and setting guidelines, 95% of the folks that were on the approving panel were paid for by opiate makers.

There's no conflicts of interest on the FDA panels that approved drugs. So you are actually able to get not only research grants, but directly bribes, direct consulting grants to the people actually approving the drugs. Then the media is basically saying, pain is a crisis. Their 60% of their funding on tv. News comes from pharma.

As I talked to Tucker about, that's not just to influence the consumer, that's to buy the news itself.

The influencers, the groups, the chorus of. Voices on social media and the people speaking on the media are paid for by these groups. The NAACP is a registered lobbyist today for ozempic and other pharmaceutical companies. So these groups that we hold sacrosanct, the NAACP, Harvard, the NIH, the FDA, these groups are literally funded by the industry. And that industry, again, is a raw statement of economic facts.

Calley Means
Needs us sick. It is absolutely devastating. To the healthcare industry. It will be devastating in short term for the economy if we get healthier, because our economy, so much of it, is propelled by this industry that needs us sick. So it's a simple message, but it's simply follow the money and realize there are extremely unimpressive people sitting around conference tables in DC who just understand you just need to funnel these people money.

I was blown away as an intern, essentially working for these consulting companies to see lists of Harvard doctors, of Tufts doctors, to see that. Still, Tufts nutrition school was putting out studies questioning whether sugar caused obesity. Right. And that's happening today. It's very simple.

And we keep falling for it. Yeah. You know, I think we're entering gonna be probably the most important election cycle, you could argue the most important election cycle in the history of the world. Right? And we have what's emerging as three main Bobby Kennedy, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden, or whoever comes in to assume the cadaver that is formally known as Joe Biden.

Aubrey Marcus
But it is impressive that he's still animated as a being speaking of drugs. So in this, one of the things that sometimes I think people mistake is they're like, ah, yeah, Donald Trump gonna drain the swamp. Well, he was in there four years. He certainly had a chance. And I don't necessarily think he doesn't want to, but he actually can't see the swamp.

He's like, swamp blind. I mean, he was the one who pushed all of these, you know, fast vaccine programs and all, like, Operation Warp Speed, all of this stuff. It's like, I'm trying to drain a swamp, but I don't actually know where it is in some ways, is actually what I think. And now that's giving, like, the best. That's probably giving the best interpretation of Donald Trump is like, people like, oh, he's going to drain the swamp, yo.

He can't even see it. And if he could see it, if he could see it, maybe he would actually. Maybe he actually would try to drain it. I don't know. I don't know the man, but I do know Bobby, and I know that not only can he see the swamp, but he knows how to drain it.

A lot to unpack there. So, on the issue of this being the most important election in our lifetime, I've been radicalized to this, and I think a lot of people are waking up. But I think by design, by those incentives of the media, we're debating trivia when there is one issue that matters in this country, and that is that let's just look at kids. I just cannot. And I know we gloss over these statistics, but 50% of young adults are overweight or obese.

Like, childhood obesity epidemic. That is a crime of our soul. Like, that is not personal choice among those kids. We are poisoning kids at scale. That is not supposed to happen.

25% of teens having fatty liver disease. 30 years ago, a doctor that treated that disease would only see it with elderly alcoholics. Now it's 25% of teens. 33% of young adults have pre diabetes. Right?

This used to be called early onset diabetes. When somebody, like, under 50 got it. Now it's like kids. They're building centers. Diabetes centers for children.

They're building cardiology centers for children. We are poisoning our kids at scale. It's just. It's that simple. I believe it's almost genocidal, and it's so widespread and so normalized through a lot of these efforts, the food and the pharma companies fund, that we don't even realize it's happening.

No other issue matters other than, like, our brains and our bodies, which perceive reality. It's the first order issue. Of course, all of this physical harm that's happening to us at scale impacts our brain. Talking about connections in medical school and doctors often see the brain as a totally disconnected entity. It produces 20% of our energy.

95% of the serotonin, which regulates our emotions, is produced in the gut. Our emotions and our mental health is totally interconnected. And that's why 40% of high school seniors qualify as having a mental health disorder. Just looking at kids and then of course, tracing it to adults, where 80% are overweight or obese, 66% have prediabetes. We're going to become a non competitive, infertile country.

This is uniquely happening in America. Our population is just not at their. Best, and is their brains and our. Bodies, which perceive reality also. I think it's a spiritual crisis because the fact that we're letting this happen.

The fact that were totally disconnected from. Our soil, which produces our food, and what were putting in our body and our core metabolic habits, sleep, stress management, movement, every animal on earth can regulate these things. Were the only animals with systematic metabolic dysfunction, which literally means our cells are. Just rebelling against us. You dont have obese giraffes in the wild or wolves.

Its only happening to us and animals whove domesticated. I think we're at a tipping point, and it's only getting worse. The healthcare industry is growing, largest and. Fastest growing industry in the country. For each dollar we spend unlike any other industry, businesses we've run, innovation is lower costs, better outcomes, and healthcare.

Calley Means
The more we spend, the worse things get. And it's growing. So that's all we should be talking about. That's frankly what Americans are thinking about. As I said, that's what's being talked.

About around kitchen tables and on independent media. Then we get into the candidates. I think you're exactly right. The confusion, not being able to see. The swamp is by design.

Calley Means
A big thing I did working for pharma companies and food companies was funding research on the food side. If you go to Pubmed, there's been 50,000 nutrition peer reviewed studies in the past two years. Every single one of those, I'd argue, is worthless. It's actually net negative. The entire purpose of funding those studies is to cause confusion.

The entire purpose is that if President Trump is in meeting and they go, okay, the USDA guidelines are recommending that. Two year olds have 10% of their. Diet as added sugar, which they do. It's to say, oh, the NIH says this is okay. There's some research.

We don't want to go against the science here. There's a bunch of studies that, that's what it's for. I've talked to 50 members of Congress. One on one in the past year. They're not, they're not horrible people.

Calley Means
As you said, the systemic design has, is so brilliant that it has good people do evil things. They want kids to be healthier, but they tell me, they're like, I'm a military guy or I'm a financial services guy, and I come in and I'm trying to make sense of this. And I just have a stack of studies from the lobbyists. So all this ancillary funding, all these funding of influencers, all this funding of research, that's all, to influence decision makers. There was a big joke and a lot of laughs.

I went on Fox and talked about it, and Joe Rogan tweeted something we wrote about the Tufts food compass that said, lucky charms are healthier than beef. And it caused a big hubbub. And it was kind of like this funny meme. It's not funny because that study on the study, NIH, Tufts nutrition school, top brands, you could have, it says, purpose of study to influence childhood marketing guidelines for childhood nutrition. That was the entire point of the study.

We were laughing about it. I was on Fox News having a giggle about it. That study was being brought to school boards. And now you go to a school, you're seeing lucky charms, you're not seeing farm fresh eggs or beef. That's the point of these studies.

And that's why it's extremely important to have somebody who can see through that bullshit, to have somebody that has their own moral compass. We have to understand that we are smarter than doctors when it comes to chronic conditions. We have to understand that all chronic disease research, the trillions of dollars we spent researching and managing chronic conditions and all nutrition research, is a net negative for society. If you pressed a button and eliminated all research for chronic conditions and nutrition, we'd be healthier. This is public relations documents meant to obfuscate.

And from the president to members of Congress, to me and you often probably, oh, we gotta. I'm not a doctor. That's bullshit. When it comes to chronic conditions, the record of chronic conditions could not be worse. There's never been a chronic disease treatment that I can find in american history.

That's led to lower rates of the chronic condition that it's trying to treat. We have more stans, more heart disease, more SSRI's, more depression, more metformin, more diabetes, more ace inhibitors, higher blood pressure, and ozempic. JP Morgan estimates, you know, has all these financial models to. To underpin the stock price. It's now the most valuable company in Europe.

The company that makes it. It projects higher obesity rates over the next ten years. What does obesempic do for people who don't know? It's a injectable now it's on track to be the highest revenue generating drug in the country. It's a weekly injection for obesity, and it's all the rage.

A lot of people are taking it to lose a couple pounds, but there's a lot of effort. I mean, this is the playbook here. Um, just going down. The institutions of trust, the company, this. Danish company, Novo Nordics, has made 420,000 individual payments to doctors the United States last year.

It's on a government database. 420,000 individual, not research. Grants, bribes, grants, they could do it. It's reported. One of those doctors at Harvard, the top obesity doctor, who had received about $100,000 of direct bribes and stands to have her entire practice, you know, grow significantly if this drug is approved, because it's a lifetime drug, went on 60 minutes, number one funder of 60 minutes pharma, she undisclosed that she was paid by the drug maker, said that obesity is a genetic condition, and she said, throw diet and exercise out the window.

It's not about willpower, it's about a genetic condition. It's a brain disease. We need this as a first line. Defense, not when dietary interventions fail. We need this as a frontline defense for all overweight or obese children.

That was the same week. A study or guidance from the American Academy of Pediatrics. Not some french group, but the group that sets pediatric guidelines in the United States, which is a pharma subsidiary. It's totally funded by Pharma. They came out in unison with the 60 minutes episode and said, twelve years and up, got to do it.

First line defense again, it's a weekly injectable for the rest of your life. You're not supposed to go off of it. And the target market of teens is 50%, and the target market of adults is 80% overweight or obese. So you have this full court press, you know, the Harvard doctor amplified by the media with fast tracking from the FDA, right? We've been 20 years for psychedelic approval.

Calley Means
This was a 68 week study leading. The FDA to say, twelve years, not okay. 68 week. It's a lifetime drug. The study didn't even take into account bone muscle mass.

It's come out later that they didn't even study that before approving it. And people are actually getting fatter, technically. Cause they're losing so much muscle, which is a huge, huge problem. So that's ozempic. It's on track to be the best.

Calley Means
Selling drug in the country because there's an all out lobbying effort, with all. The dynamics I just described, to get Medicare, Medicaid to pay for it, which will be $15,000 per person, per year.

And the point I've been making. The point I've been lobbying on is. Even if the drug was perfect, which. It'S not, it's gonna be recalled. It's a disaster of a drug because the fast tracking and corruption I just mentioned.

But even if it was perfect, there's no world, there's no place where you. Would ever look at what's happening, where. We'Re poisoning our kids and having metabolic dysfunction in every way, and say, instead of not poisoning ourselves, let's just shoot ourselves with a. With a shot for $15,000 a year. For the rest of us.

I mean, it's so absurd, you can't. Even wrap your head around it. My point is, what could we do with that $15,000? Yeah, absolutely. We could literally, for half of that, for a fourth of that, literally transform our entire agriculture system to regenerative.

Calley Means
And the problem right there, it would. It would demonstrably save us trillions of dollars a year in healthcare costs. This isn't a joke, right? We spend more on diabetes management right now than the Defense Department as a government. Like, diabetes is a, like that used to be close to zero.

It is close to zero in some countries. Like, we can have a zero. It is a foodborne illness, type two diabetes. You know, we've gone from a 0% about 100 years ago to 65, close to 70% ultra processed food consumption in the past hundred years. If you just on that simple metric, you said we're going to shift to a regenerative agriculture system.

We're going to use that $15,000 actually to, you know, not have lower income kids be forced to eat poison on snap. You know, we're going to do like they do in every european country and incentivize those lower income folks to go to farmers, you know, to incentivize a better food system for them, save trillions of dollars of downstream health. Max, I mean, what, what you're describing is the classic example of a cancer. And so our healthcare system is designed to treat cancer, but actually it is the cancer. And a cancer.

Aubrey Marcus
What is a cancer? Cancer is when a group of cells are blind and have lost communication with the whole of the organism, and they drive the organism to ruin for their own benefit. And this is what we're experiencing. The healthcare system is growing. Those cells column, those cells are growing.

They're growing in wealth and gravitas and size. Oh, yeah, sure, that tumor is growing, but the whole organism of our body politic, of the human race itself, is dying from this tumor. And we are going to have to treat this. We're going to have to treat the healthcare system like we have to treat a cancer and get it back in communication with the body. And this is a whole other, even philosophical understanding.

I've read Travis Christopherson's book, tripping over the truth, the Metabolic Theory of Cancer, that goes all the way back to Otto von Warburg. And it's brilliant, brilliant analysis, which is saying that even cancer has metabolic origins as feed on sugar. It feeds on sugar. And so when these cancer cells and these tumors grow, they lose communication, and they start going back to a primitive form of energy sustenance, which is the fermenting of glucose rather than the normal ATP cycle. So he's recommending hyperbaric, oxygen restricted ketogenic diets, sometimes in conjunction with chemotherapy or radiation.

But, but sometimes that's all. Actually you need is get the cells metabolically healthy, get them back in communication with the rest of the organism. And actually the organism will start to thrive itself but until it's like the body is being controlled by the cancer. Instead of the body controlling the cancer, the cancer is controlling the body. And this is the fucking problem that we're dealing with.

We got to get back in charge of the body, of our whole humanity, 100%. Two thoughts on that. My fear for my entire life, my greatest anxiety, what kept me up at night, was thinking about my best friend, my mom dying of cancer. And I learned two things in the 13 days between her getting that abrupt diagnosis and her dying. It was 13 days from her being perfectly healthy to dead.

One was that we all. Life is random. We can all die. And there's not this endless goal to prevent everything and longevity and living to 150. I'm not really with that.

I don't think that's the goal of medicine. What I learned during her 13 days is that we have a perverted view of death that's propagated by the medical system. The medical system preys on our fear of death. And it was eye opening, you know, sitting at Stanford oncology in, you know, the day after her diagnosis, and they told us, we have to fight. We have to do aggressive interventions.

We have to do biopsies. We have to do x, y, and z. And it was COVID protocol, so we weren't gonna see her. She was gonna have these interventions. She was gonna be in a sterile room without her family.

So I had a couple thoughts there. I'm like, well, where was the fighting before? Was this preventable? We go to war, you know, once the cars crashed. But where was the fighting during those first, those 40 years?

Then my sister, we had the wherewithal, and I think this was, like, 0.1% of cases where we had a surgeon who learned in that same center, in that same hospital. She started asking about ratios, and we learned that these interventions would have a 33% chance of extending her life two weeks, even though she'd be alone. 33% chance neutral, 33% chance, actually negative. So we had to go against medical. Advice and took her home.

And she received hundreds of letters overlooking the beach from people about how she impacted their lives. And in her final moment of consciousness, she asked to be carried. She was so weak. She carried a mile down the road to the beach, and she embraced my dad in her final moment of consciousness and gave him a hug and said, thank you for this amazing life. And just, like, it was beautiful.

Calley Means
And so that was one lesson from cancer. It's just like, it pales in comparison, right? The years. What matters is right now, and the. Impact we have on others.

And as my sister mentioned, all those letters, she's actually biochemically changed people's cells. When you meet somebody, and that literally. Just demonstrably, like you live on. So that was one thing that made me angry. I think my view of death, all of our views of death, is kind of weaponized against us, and it kind of has this spiritual problem of, like, robbing us of gratitude.

The second more tactical thing, kind of. Getting to your points about cancer was. That that Stanford oncologist said that her cancer was unlucky. One of the top oncologists of the world. It's like, ugh, this is such a tough break, Gail.

And that is a lie. Many forms of cancer are as tied to diabetes as smoking is to lung cancer. You know, you can get lung cancer without smoking, but it's highly correlated. Metabolic dysfunction to pancreatic and many other forms of cancer are just as connected. Food cancer is a foodborne illness.

Calley Means
In many, many cases. It's that pronounced and that simple. And that's, like, radical news to most people, right? That is not broadcasted in public health campaigns. It is a total lie.

When your doctor tells your loved one or you, that the dementia or the kidney disease or the cancer is unlucky. Dementia, Alzheimer's, you know, as we know, rates are exploding just as they drop. The early onset, the early stage kind of diabetes, label the early onset Alzheimer's. They're going to drop that soon. So teenagers are getting dementia.

It's all coming down. Alzheimer's is now called type three diabetes. If you don't have prediabetes or diabetes, you have a very low chance of having Alzheimer's. If you're metabolic healthy, which is totally under. Is under your control.

For the vast majority of folks, you're not getting Alzheimer's. You're almost certainly not getting. Most forms of cancer, by definition, aren't getting diabetes. That literally is just the definition of high blood sugar, which is under your control. You're almost, by definition, not getting heart or cardiology issues.

You could just go down the list of nine of the ten top killers of Americans. You're not becoming obese. So there's just that image of that doctor and just the tough break and that kind of idea permeating throughout our chronic disease crisis. It's a lie. Yeah.

Aubrey Marcus
And that is also, even looking at just the physical correlation and not the psychospiritual correlation, you really start to understand that the physical body will manifest psychic malignancies physically and just as the psychic body will manifest psychic malignancies from physical, because it's all on a continuum. So this is the other piece. Like, all right, let's actually understand what the physical contributing factors are. Whether this is additional EMF, whether this is additional, you know, whatever glyphosates or whatever adjuvantations have been in your vaccines or whatever the other things that might be. That are contributing.

Whatever poisons might be environmental, whatever this, whatever physically is going on, whatever your metabolic health. All right, let's look at your psychospiritual health, and let's see how much fear, how much stress, how much repression of your emotions, and how much shame you've kind of locked inside your body. All of these things. We have to bring the whole picture back together to actually understand systemic health. Yeah, I mean, after my mom died, my sister and I vowed to make it our life's mission to try to stop that cycle.

You know, my mom was the american patient. I mean, truly, like, the majority of people are following in her footsteps with the cascading comorbidities that's eventually gonna lead to something bad, but at the very least, a suboptimal life and increasing comorbidities. We decided to write this book, which is coming out soon. The last chapter, the most important chapter, is about the mind. We talk about how the mind literally, and we go into the science controls your metabolism.

The constant barrage of chronic stress that particularly our kids are facing to an unprecedented degree, with everyone having, obviously, a weapon of mass destruction or chronic stress in their pocket, and just the trillions of dollars of incentives that, you know, that are just basically profit and are entirely focused on hijacking our attention, hijacking our dopamine, hijacking our fear that has serious impacts. And in the mental health world, I think there's many scandals in medicine. But as RFK has talked about, and something I'm extremely passionate about is the mental health industry particularly, is a absolute full blown scandal. 25% of women in the United States right now are on some kind of psychoactive drug for legal SSRI's on down an antidepressant. And I'm not full on anti pharma.

And I really just think we should follow the science. But the science isn't putting one fourth of women on a drug that fundamentally numbs you from reality and does not help you process your trauma and does not help you really get to the root cause of what's holding you back in life. That's not right. And actually, the underlying science on the chemical imbalance of depression has been totally debunked. Yeah.

Aubrey Marcus
I mean, this is. So if you go into this a little bit more, there's something called the active placebo hypothesis. And I've gone down this, and I'm sure you have, as well, whereas basically everything. Double blind, placebo controlled. When you take an SSRI, you have a noticeable and tangible effect.

You're aware that you're on a drug, right? So you're in a. You're in a clinically controlled trial. Double blind. Right.

One thing that you take, you're aware that you're on it. The other thing that you take, it's a placebo, right. Nothing is happening. And so, when you're taking this sSri, you're aware that something's happening, and then your belief kicks in. Oh, I'm in the group that's getting the drug.

I'm in the group that's getting this new novel magic bullet treatment for depression. Gosh darn it, I feel better. I'm taking this thing, and gosh darn it, I feel better. And then the people who are like, I don't feel anything. I must be in the placebo group, so I don't feel better.

So what they actually showed is they tested, actually, and I don't know the exact details, but they tested. You might be able to fill me in on the rest of this. Yeah. Oh. The FDA does not require efficacy.

It requires. It's a safety test. And the drug companies do not have to show the actual studies. They just have to give a top line report out to get FDA approval later on. Far after, you know, a huge chunk of the country has been prescribed SSRI's.

This. The underlying research that got the initial approval came out, and it showed that the SSRI's were no better than a placebo. Again and again and again in these studies, SSRI's don't match or equal to the placebo group in many, many cases. Yeah, I mean, I was looking into it. We were showing, like, there's studies that showed gardening had a better effect than the.

Aubrey Marcus
Gardening had a better effect than SSRI's. And then just follow this active placebo thread. They tested a variety of other things that had no. The chemical model of depression. So they tested a variety of other drugs that also had a tangible effect.

You could basically give somebody niacin effectively, which is like, oh, shit, I'm on something. And then that thing, knowing that you're on it, will create the placebo effect to a higher degree than actually. When you're like, I don't think I'm on something. And that'll in large numbers as you pump out for these big clinical trials that will show enough efficacy that you can get your whatever the fuck approved. This goes back to the core principle.

Trust the system on acute, don't trust it on chronic. You'll probably, you know, have to do a disclaimer saying, consult a doctor. My message is very simple. You should listen to your doctor, sure. But do not trust your doctor when it comes to chronic conditions.

Calley Means
I have had so many people come out of the woodworks on many of these issues, but particularly on mental health. Where theyre basically being shamed by their mental health practitioner not to go off the SSRI. Oh, thats dangerous. Oh, you got a lot coming up. Thats a little risky.

Thats like Ozempic, its recurring revenue engine. Right. Ozempic requires the continued appointments for that kid for the rest of their lives. To get the shots and the prescriptions and all the blood tests to see how, and inevitably, all the. All the issues that actually causes depression.

Because it messes with your guts. You got to get the SSRI's. It's not just the pharmaceutical. It's all the ancillary things. Of course, the SSRI's, it requires continued appointments.

It requires all these ancillary issues. There's huge problems with SSri's. They actually cause weight gain. So they're actually blending the Ozempic clinics in with the mental health facilities. No joke.

So it's a godsend for the industry. But I'm telling you, you know, you should absolutely consider going against your mental health practitioner's advice if they're trying to keep you on them. The underlying. Just a statement of two facts. The actual studies that led to FDA approval showed no better benefit than a placebo.

And the actual underlying science, you can google this from last year, it's been debunked, the chemical imbalance theory of depression, so that you see just again and again and again stans, which we've spent a trillion dollars on worldwide. When you add it all up, based. On definitive best in class studies, they tried to add up how much they extend life expectancy. They got to four days. That was the conclusion that statins, on average, extend life expectancy four days.

Aubrey Marcus
Yeah, this is a lot. So, for somebody who's naive to this conversation, they're like, wow, this is too much. And this is the interesting world that we're in, where we have a whole group that's still kind of bound by the fear of their own, and they're already suffering from some conditions. And then the doctors in the white robes are the new priestly class, and they're going to bring them to their own salvation with the new Scientology, so to speak, even though that is another whole cultish religion thing. But it is this, like the religion of scientism, that they're going to their priests and they're looking for their sacrament, their next little wafer, that's going to be their salvation.

And they're really bought into this fundamentalism. And we're almost going into a new renaissance period, a new enlightenment, where there's still the old fundamentalists that want to burn the witches at the stake, want to jab the people with the ozempic, want to do the old system and the old priestly class, and then there's the, the enlightenment thinkers being like, no, no, no. We have to get beyond this fundamentalist dogma and actually start to see the truth once again. And it's interesting because while in some ways this is kind of widening, people are doubling down, and then other people are really becoming awake to the facts. And then there's all of the kind of spectrum in the middle, the bell curve people just starting to kind of wake up a little bit.

And I guess that's if I had to say, you know, despite the horror of what we've experienced over the last few years, one of the blessings is that it has started to wake people up because this system is over. They're over pressing their hand 100%. They've gotten too greedy, and they're over playing their hand, and it's like, oh, wait, you've been bluffing. Like, like, you get called on enough bluffs, then you all of a sudden understand that, oh, I get the game. And I think that's what we're seeing, and that's what we'll continue to see.

And it's just my prayer that we see it soon enough that we can start to actually move in a different direction. Okay, so you said something earlier, a couple of things, but you kind of dismissed. I heard to my ear, like, independent media, that it's, you know, the delusion mainstream press is too much. You know, I gotta say I'm more optimistic. I think what you're doing, what the leaders of independent media doing, I believe what's happening is one of the most important historical dynamics in american history.

Calley Means
I really do mean that when you. Actually look at great changes in american history, what led to the revolution was the idea of the printing press and pamphlets and people really the federalist papers, which were just kind of like, in periodicals. And that led to that, I think, for the past, you know, 70, 80. Years, we had kind of a top. Down information system, and for a while.

That was pretty good. They held the government to account in. Many cases because of this corporate takeover, because of the fact that they're literally. Their lifeblood now as pharmaceutical dollars, as the healthcare dollars. They're no longer checks on power.

They're referees for power. I mean, no curiosity about why 33% of young adults have prediabetes, right? Literally calling parents, you know, practically war criminals for asking why we've gone from 20 immune system changing injections to 70 in 20 years. You know, shouldn't that be at least a open area of inquiry for the people that are supposed to be holding institutions to account? Shouldn't it be an interesting area of inquiry that we have this dynamic where it's probably the only industry in the country where the second you get approval for something, you're mandated to the entire country to take something, hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue.

Isn't there an incentive there to get more shots on the schedule, like. Like not taking away any benefit of the drugs? Isn't there like an unrelenting incentive that once you get something approved, you've mandated for the entire country the government's going to pay for it? And then you have the media and government vilifying anyone who questions it and the tech companies censoring any dissent. Like, there's not a product in America where there's a greater kind of perverse incentive to jam more on that list of things we jam three month olds with.

So no, no discussion of that. Right. You are a war criminal for even asking a question in the media. Right. They've totally abdicated their role and people have turned independent media.

And what do we have there? We have leaked emails from the NIH saying, you and others are dangerous people. Sure. And I want to get to kind of that spiritual crisis and kind of what this means and what the stakes are with this election. You mentioned the gardening, and that's kind of, that is kind of like, okay, sounds kind of trite.

It's like, I think that's like, deathly serious or depression. Like, being outside, moving your body in the sun. That's not a joke. We should be prescribing gardening. Yeah.

Aubrey Marcus
Cultivating, cultivating life, connecting to. Connecting to the soil of, like, wow, the sun and rain. And this soil is actually allowing life to grow out of the soil and allowing me to harvest that either in beautiful flowers or food. It works on so many different things. It literally, it's not a joke at all.

Calley Means
I would have thought, you know, I. Was born and raised in DC, very conservative guy, you know, I would have thought that sounded like hippie bullshit, but it's just the science. It's just following the science. We are right now systematically taking a. Child, right, who's born and likes to be outside, likes to play, is predisposed to natural food, you know, has awe for the universe.

And we, in systems designed during the industrial revolution, and by Rockefeller, our modern education system, where he said, I want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers. We still have that system today, just as we have the same healthcare system. We sit kids in windowless rooms, sedentary for 8 hours, basically, with a feeding tube of ultra processed food and chronic stress all day. You know, that you may not know this story, but, and I don't know the exact details of it, because I read it in Tyson Junco Porta's book, Santok, I don't know if you're familiar with that book, but he traces the origin to modern education, which was adopted by the Rockefellers, and for the industrial, industrial revolution, to the conquest of the Prusiak people in Prussia, where they actually realized that for empire to have total control of the population, they figured like, all right, well, how do we control, how do we break a wild animal? Well, how we break a wild animal is you isolate the wild animal from their parents during the daylight hours, and you confine them to an enclosed space, and you isolate them from their family from the daylight hours, and then actually breaks the wildness out of the animal, and you're able to control the animal.

Aubrey Marcus
And they're like, aha, what if we do that with kids? And then we'll be able to break the wild out of the kids. We'll be able to break their wild thoughts, we'll be able to break their wild impulses, then we can control them entirely. And that model was so effective for what I call empire, to be able to control a population that our industrial magnets and tycoons were like, yeah, that's a really good model for education. Let's imprint that.

And that's literally what we're doing. We're domesticating and breaking the wild thinking and breaking the wild healing that comes from a life lived in accord with the circadian rhythms and cycles of nature and life and family. And we're breaking that out of people for what? So that they can remember some obscure dates that they'll forget fucking three months later when the test is over, you know, we're not even teaching people how to think. We're not even doing actual good things in our education for the most part.

I mean, yes, some stuff is somewhat helpful. You learn about a periodic table, whatever. I'm not saying that all the education is useless, but we're not looking at this in the right way, and we're not seeing the hidden origins and agendas of our current education system, which is linked in to this whole puzzle as well. Five years ago, I would have maybe a little more ten. I would have said, you were crazy to say that I would do anything other than do what I did, try to go to a good private school, trust the healthcare system.

I think a lot of people are still stuck in this box. It is, I think, hard for people to understand how the rules of this game, how bad they are, how people with those intentions to literally break children, have created these structures that haven't changed in a long time. You know, a huge motivation for me is having a little two year old, my first child. And it's just like. It is just the thought of every.

Calley Means
Child, like the human capital and the. Curiosity, if that's channeled correctly, just the incredible serendipity and incredible, like, production just of some kind that they're gonna produce, and how we put them on this assembly line. You know, my story is, I went to business school, Harvard Business School, and, you know, it's a really smart people. But everyone is dealing with the kind of trauma and expectations, and every single person writes their essay sensibly. Smart people, and it's all about changing the world.

It's not one essay about working at McKinsey. It's not one essay about working in investment banking. It's all about dreams of changing the world. And we have this at that level. This conveyor belt of conformity, just like McKinsey, sponsoring everything, just completely orchestrated stress to take advantage of your parents expectations.

And kind of shame you to go. On the traditional road, and 90% of class comes in with these dreams, and then in two years later, goes into traditional industries, into the industries that they agree are destroying the country. My friend who wrote their essay about. Changing healthcare, you know, went to work for McKenzie and was on the pharma. Group that helped Purdue pharma prescribe my opioids.

Calley Means
And they actually did a study among different cohorts of people. And Harvard business school grads, ten years. After school, were the most clinically depressed group of any type of cohort, any type of socioeconomic group they've studied, because it's people that are, you know, have high dreams, have high potential, and then come in and are just propping up industries that they know are doing wrong. But I think it's happening everywhere. I think fundamentally, at various levels, that kind of treadmill of taking dreams and taking human capital and breeding it into widgets, into the system that we know is failing us.

The invisible hand is producing that. And I think it's a huge problem. I think it ties to healthcare because it's bigger than healthcare. Right. We're fundamentally, to me, as you've kind of alluded to, the healthcare system robs us of awe.

It robs us of any understanding of connection. It robs us of an understanding about our finite place here with the fear of death and how ephemeral life is. I think there's this systematic, again, spiritual crisis with how we've been taken away from our metabolic habits, which, again, is managing our stress, eating correctly, moving, looking at the sun, understanding our security. It's just our basic biological needs. We've been totally told that's not under our purview anymore.

I think that's made us more in fear, more risk averse. It's really damaging human capital. Yeah. And I think I am also actually optimistic. And I certainly didn't mean to downplay the impact of independent media because obviously I'm participating in it.

Aubrey Marcus
And obviously this is what's allowed me to have the awareness that I have is that I have been listening to podcasts and reading books put out by these different thinkers who are thinking outside of the box. And so I do believe in that fundamentally. And I also really believe in the power of psychedelic medicine and the ceremonial use of psychedelics, which is obviously radically shaped my life. And now we're at this also. So we've talked about all of these, you know, pessimistic kind of this kind of diagnosis of the state that we're in.

But, all right, where are some. Where are some points of optimism? Well, we're about to enter another psychedelic renaissance. And what is that giving people access to? Of course, we're studying the ability of MDMA to treat treatment resistant post traumatic stress disorder, which has all kinds of downstream effects on the entire system.

Right? So that's just one thing. All right? Psilocybin is treating end of life anxiety and depression. So we're looking at these because we have to for the medical system to get approved.

We're looking at these small things. But really what's also happening at the root of this is it's getting us back in touch with what we actually know as we're connected to the divine field of life itself, we're getting back in touch with our anthro anthology, ontology. Like anthropos, our body, what our actual body, spirit, soul, heart knows, ontological, what is real. We're getting in touch with what our body knows is real. Like, I can recall one particular large, heroic psilocybin dose.

And just from a skeletal muscle system kind of construct, I've given lots of guidance about different things to eat and just information pouring in as I'm actually able to communicate with my body's own intelligence, which is connected to the collective intelligence. And for people who haven't experienced psychedelics, might be, what is this hippie talking about? But I felt this happen. But even on a simple thing like on this higher dose mushrooms, I was just guided to stretch in certain ways for just hours and shake for hours as I'm, like, shaking things out of my. Out of my somatic tissues and out of the storage of that.

And where was that knowledge coming from? It was coming from the intelligence of my body itself. And so I think this is another one of the optimistic things that's happening. Yeah. All right.

You may go for your mDMa, you know, psychotherapy for your. For your trauma, for your PTSD, but it might actually connect you to your heart and the wisdom of your heart. You may go to treat your anxiety or depression with psilocybin or smoking cessation with psilocybin or whatever other things it gets approved for. But you might actually get back in touch with our innate intelligence, which we'll know that actually, when you have that bowl of lucky charms and you have that, you know, ranch grown, grass fed rib eye on one side, you'll know what your body is actually craving to eat. You know that 100% you'll know.

You'll actually know. And so that's. That's what's on our side. Everything else is this web of illusion and delusion fueled by fear. But there's a.

There's a knowledge, there's a. There's a gnosis that we actually have, and it comes from the truth. And not only are people speaking about it, but we're going to be able to find it for ourselves. So you're going to be able to listen to somebody on a podcast like this or listen to Joe Rogan, then you're going to be able to experience something where you go, oh, yeah, that's true. I feel it's true.

I actually know it's true. I got both the information and I have the gnosis inside of me and I think those things are converging and it's going to make a really dramatic impact. Couple that with a leader like Robert F. Kennedy Junior, who's actually speaking the truth, changing policies, breaking these lines of corruption and capture, well, all of a sudden we're moving into a whole different type of world.

I believe that the single most important thing and actually an existential thing for the country if I were to have one policy, it's encouragement and availability of therapeutic psychedelics, as you said, in an intentional way. And it actually encouraged that as a government, people have to be called, but have it available for any american. I'm glad we can kind of unpack this often. I'm kind of going down the health tips, but truly my life's goal is that I think it is existential to the resurgence of the country because at the end of the day I think we're losing our minds. I think we're totally being taken by trillions of dollars of interest away from awe and interconnectedness.

And I don't think it's about command and control policies for people to eat better. I think we have to reset the downsides of modernity. I like modernity. I like the fact that we have artificial light and phones and travel, which disrupts our circadian rhythm, and some agriculture. Innovations, but probably not really, frankly entertainment, that's messing up our sleep.

Calley Means
There's a lot of great things about. Modern life, temperature control, but these things. Are wreaking havoc on us, I think, being hijacked, and we have to kind of reset and get back to the interconnectedness. So I'm here because of psychedelics. I'm talking to you because of psychedelics.

As I said, I grew up super traditional, super conservative, and listening to what. You just said five years ago, I'm like on one ear, out the other. Kind of hippie stuff. After my mom died, a person I. Really respected said, why don't you try this very intentional ceremony?

And I just kind of jumped right. I had no context at all. And those 4 hours were the most important moment of my life. More important than my mom dying, than my son being born, getting married, because it tied everything together and it helped reach out. 6 hours.

Aubrey Marcus
Sounds like psilocybin. Yeah, four to six. Four plus a lot of unpacking. It could be ayahuasca. Psilocybin and I'll just share that.

It's been a passion of mine to evangelize that on the right side of the aisle where I used to work and I'm kind of all over the place now, but I've talked to Tucker about it on his show a year ago. I've been working with a lot of members of Congress. We have to believe in people. The banning of psychedelics in the face of incredible research by Nixon with leaked audio recording of him telling the Vietnam generals that people are thinking, thinking for themselves too much. Banning it, I think 1971, and then tying any research partnership in the United States to the other country banning that.

So immediately having 200 countries just wiping it off the face of the earth was out of fear. It was literally the stated purpose from Nixon was people were thinking for themselves too much. And my personal experience, as I said, the Harvard Business School, kind of traditional, it did just completely just kick my ass of like with the lesson of my mom, just how short our time is here. And that was my journey and it's why I'm on this fight. But I don't know many people who've done it intentionally who haven't shared a similar view that it's not a panacea end all, be all for me, but it is a blunt force instrument to, to show you the truth and kind of inescapably show you the truth and then you can decide what to do with that.

I think most people, if they're called, should see that, quite frankly. Yeah. And look, and this is, it may be too much truth too fast. It's got to be called, it is a path of fire, but it's a path that. So I will never recommend psychedelics outright unless, like you said, as something someone's called.

Aubrey Marcus
But there are some things that I will recommend. Carte blanche, every single fucking person. And that's breath work. That's breath work, right? This is when you're actually going, you know, like Wim Hof breathing, but even deeper than Wim hof breathing into that shamanic holotropic breath work.

Like Doctor Stanislav Grof, you know, propagated from the old, you know, tummo pranayama techniques and all of these things, they've been around for a long time, but there's been this really, this resurgence in breath work practitioners and breath work practice and, you know, whims been a great contributor to that. But there's so many different practitioners and there is literally in my mind, zero downside and only extreme upside to practicing breath work. Like, there's no risk, it's only health benefits. You're going to alkalize your body, you're going to go through positive positive physiological changes, massive catharsis, which is also one of the deep fundamental structures of medicine. If you go back to ancient Greece, right, it was, catharsis was one of the main strategies of health.

It was diagnosis, catharsis, and then finally they would get to medicine at the very end after they moved through the psychospiritual body. But this is one of those tools that's like, all right, get in there. Some same thing with, like, sensory deprivation tanks or a dark room retreat. You know, if, like, it's okay if you don't want to take any of these plant medicines or any of these psychedelics, but you have to find a bridge to get back in touch with the intelligence of your body and to understand how to heal. And this is a starting place where it's like, yeah, 100% every single person.

Here's where I'm convinced, like, it sounds like a political slogan. It kind of is, but I think it's true. It's just like believing in the american people. There's such cynicism about the american people. Like, I think the system, we just have trillions of dollars that slant us into one mechanism.

We've been gaslighted, batter over the head that the prescription pad or a scalpel or a medical intervention is all that works. My dream and what I'm really trying to operationalize in thinking about policies and incentives helping RFK is that there's $4.7 trillion. We follow incentives, unfortunately. So those $4.7 trillion of healthcare are slanting people into this pharmaceutical. We don't necessarily need to dictate people to do breath work, but those could incentives.

If we're going to have them, if we're going to have that $4.7 trillion, it could foster and nudge people into. More of a path of curiosity it could use. All I'm asking for is to follow the science. Like, like, like, what if we just, like, you know, it's just, again, if. An alien came down kind of blind.

To what our policy solutions were and looked at the science and then looked at what's happening with, like, constant trauma, people, you know, detached from interconnectedness of everything, our soil dying because we have so little understanding of metabolic health and what we're eating 70% ultra processed food ourselves, just rebelling against us. And they'd look at the science and just look at, they would say, okay, we need to drive public policy to breath work. We need to drive public policy to farming. We need to drive public policy. And that to me, is where the.

Rubber hits the road on RFK's policy. It's unwinding where the money's going and. Where the incentives are, and actually just following the science. I've been through kind of this traumatic experience with my mom, my sister dropping out of the medical system, kind of was kicked in the ass out of this kind of conservative trajectory into more of the stuff I considered hippie, but it's absolutely changed my life. And I know most of your listeners are on a much better path, longer path than me on this.

Calley Means
It's the most important part of my life, not any specific tactic. And this is why I kind of take issue with some of the optimization bros who are like, you need to cold plunge for twelve minutes and go in the sauna for. For 57 minutes. I think it's more, actually, and we talk in the book about a path of exploration and really just getting more in tune with your body. And that's just what I would say.

That's where I'm trying to play is like, you can enshrine this into policy. You can literally prescribe, not even joke, you can prescribe farming or gardening to somebody with depression, my nonprofit and company for people with depression, we have a quick digital health survey that can assess you and literally write a doctor's note. A third party provider can, if they choose to write a note, for exercise, for healthy eating, for various vitamin deficiencies. And you can buy your gym membership if you qualify with HSAFSA dollars. That's a 40% savings.

Instead of waiting to go to farm, there's ways to do this and pour gasoline on those policies. We transform the country. Absolutely, we would transform the country. And that's just simply following the science. I don't even have an anti pharma diatribe.

I just say follow the science. An SSRi or a path of exploration with breath work, maybe doing some cold, plunging exercising. You mentioned gardening. I think literally gardening in a controlled study would be more effective than SSRI's. And there's study after study.

Aubrey Marcus
There is a controlled study on gardening. We can link it in the show notes. And there's study after study saying two. Cohorts of people, SSRI's and therapy. And I'm not against therapy, but just.

For the sake of the study. SSRI's and therapy versus people that eat. Unprocessed food and workout. The people that eat whole food and work out crush like on remission of depression. The people who are doing therapy and SSRI.

It all sounds kind of. I used to think it sounded hippie, but this stuff is just scientifically validated. It's obviously the right journey we should be prompting the american people on. But we're not, I think, cause of fear. We're not because I think it's hard to control a population, whether they're doing.

Calley Means
Psychedelics or just any type of modality. That'S giving them more awe for the world, that's helping them process their trauma, that's helping them get outside the matrix. Any modality that helps with that is repressed. It's why we're fast tracking ozempic. In 68 weeks, we pop out SSRI's to now teenagers in high school like candy.

It's like a running joke. I get high school counselors reaching out to me. I think it's like doubled the rates of prescriptions among teens in the past. We'll have to have to check this, but it's a very short period of time. It's less than ten years.

Calley Means
We've had a doubling. And there's a black box warning on. The SSRI's for suicidal ideation. You have to explain to me how. The antidepressants cause acute increase in suicide and suicidal ideation for teens.

But there's a warning, and it's like doubled very quickly. The rate of prescription for teens, whereas psychedelics where. And I'm sure many folks know this. But just to be clear, I was. Just chatting with Rick Doblin the other day about this, but it just to a person, he was going through the different schools, Harvard, UCSF, the most elite institutions in the country.

I mean, in this case, they're doing some good research. The neuroscientists say it's the best research they've seen in their career. It's the best, most efficacious, and lowest side effect reversal of PTSD and depression ever studied. And that's being slow walked is being totally slow walked. I'm completely indignant with the mental health crisis.

Calley Means
Why hasn't this been improved yet? Sure. And, you know, if people are wondering, well, how would this happen at scale? Well, look, we have state and government institutions that all have gymnasiums, and guess what? They're not always full.

Aubrey Marcus
You know, I went to a public high school, great public high school, even Westlake West Lake High gymnasium, not always full. You could easily have daily breath work available, open to the public in every middle school and every high school and elementary schools, and for all people to come in and just put in some kind of application and then get in there and get it. Get trained breath work practitioners, or have workouts in the park. You know, lots of for profit businesses have done this. And you go, Barry's boot camp, and it's out on the fucking beach or whatever.

But we could have just whole. Just slews of people from government subsidies actually working in the right way. And clearly, we had no issue generating trillions of dollars out of thin air to lock people down during the pandemic. So this would take a fraction of that, and then we would recoup that money in multiples, exponential multiples as time went on. If we actually rolled this out, it wouldn't actually be that enormous of a lift.

There would be an educational aspect of this, and then there would be a rollout. But we have the spaces available. We have the resources available. We just need to encourage and apply those resources. I think one of the most nefarious lies is, you know, these things are hard to do.

Well, lifestyle interventions are hard. They take a long time. Oh, it's hard to get people to change their diet. When my sister started medical school, from the first day, they said, the american patient's lazy. They actually breed systematic ascenicism about the american people.

And to the doctors, you know, they say that the skyrocketing rates of heart disease and diabetes are predetermined. You know, that we're never gonna solve that. What they fail to realize is this. All just happened in, like, the past 40 years. Right?

Calley Means
Right. We haven't systematically gotten a death wish. As a society, as a species in. The past 40 years. Our genetics haven't changed.

Like, our environment has been poisoned, period. Our metabolic inputs, stress, food movement, sunlight. Down the list, sleep, have been poisoned. And then working for these companies, you actually pay influencers and pay doctors and pay people to say how hard it is. There's literally research saying dietary inference fail.

What's like, we have weaponized addictive food that we allow. We're the only country in the world that allows thousands of additives in our food is because the food is covered in glyphosate, which is being banned in every other country. Our food is literally poison. Of course they fail. So I think that point about being hard, what's hard right now is that we are going to go bankrupt from this crisis.

Again. My eyes kind of gloss over that often looking at the stats. But largest industry in the country, 20% of gdp growing faster than any other industry. It's gonna be 40% in 15 years. So it's like, it's going to bankrupt our country.

And I can tell you, having a mom dying of cancer, having chronic rates of diabetes, having chronic rates of heart disease. What's happening right now is pretty hard. Walking to a classroom is hard. We, with the mobilization of COVID can in six months, change this stuff. I think that's why it's really important.

RFK, during our conversation last week, and I think the most important statement a political candidate's made in my lifetime is he said he's gonna take the COVID state of emergency. This state of emergency, the power president has for public health to take decisive action. He's gonna take that and throw that COVID emergency out, but declare an emergency for childhood health.

Now, that sounds kind of aggressive, but the president. Absolutely. And the founders interpretation and what the founders wanted has responsibility to take decisive action for public health. And we have an existential moment where our leadership and institutions have completely failed. If there is one issue in our lifetime where decisive action is needed, where somebody who knows about the swamp and how to navigate it, who knows and.

Calley Means
Has an ingrained plan of what to. Do, we have to take decisive action. To change the incentives. Changing the incentives of health. Having research not go like today with NIH grants to 80% of professors who have a conflict of interest, who are paid by the drug companies for the core disease they're actually getting research grant on.

Right. Not an agriculture system that has $100 billion go to subsidized ultra processed food, not a mental health program that goes, we're literally. Harvard was having a conference recently, and they could not find a mental health professional, a doctor who wasn't paid for by a SSRI maker. They literally couldn't find one to speak. You can take very decisive action, and I think that state of emergency, quite frankly, day one on childhood health, is warranted and very important.

Aubrey Marcus
Yeah. And it's also one of the things that I find frustrating about people who say, like, why do you even care about politics? It doesn't even matter. You know, they're so disenchanted. Right.

With what leadership has done in the past. And I understand. I understand that there's reason for disenchantment, but it doesn't mean that the actual process of putting systems in place can't actually be accretive and helpful to the. To the populace. Like, come on, y'all.

Of course. Of course a good president can actually change the course of a nation. Of course they can. And it's like this. It's one of the ways that I think Empire has seeded this doubt and cynicism.

Like, I'm not even going to vote at all. Okay, great. You know who loves that the most. The ones who are really profiteering off of all of the dis ease that is ubiquitous. I completely agree.

I mean, the guests you have on who are predominantly talking about personal empowerment and bottoms up solutions and kind of how to improve ourselves and not ranting about kind of high level politics like, has changed my life. Right? And I think it's got to be an individual empowerment journey. And that's generally what I like to listen to and has changed my life is kind of, and we try to talk about them in the book, personal empowerment tips. Given my background growing up in the swamp, being a swamp creature for a while, I'm trying to add that to the debate that I want to be really clear.

The bottoms up empowerment and people waking up and being, I think, radicalized by COVID is leading to the environment we're in right now, which I think we might be in the most consequential year of our lifetimes with this election and basically all powers of the elites telling people to shut the hell up, but people rebelling back. I know, you know, you obviously, I think, have some cynicism about Trump potentially, but, you know, I think it is actually for better or worse, and, you know, a lot to say about all candidates, but the fact that Trump and RFK are getting over 70% of the vote in a three way race, and the fundamental rationale, whatever you think about those individuals, the fundamental rationale of both those candidacies is essentially, I think, very similar, which is that our institutions are totally failing us. And RFK says this better than anyone, obviously. But when you talk about institutions, healthcare is number one. I mean, there is a true, despite every effort of all institutions, despite trying to vilify and Savage RFK and not let him have any platform, this is breaking through.

I think that's because of this bottoms up awakening. But we are not going to be. Successful with this albatross of trillions of dollars of incentives against us. We have to change that. And that's what I'm devoting my life to.

We have to use all the systems. That are being used against us. We've got to use the free market. We've got to use the legal system. Can talk about that.

Executive orders, bold executive orders, for better or worse. We're in a situation where Congress is completely paralyzed. We have to have bold executive action. And eventually we need to have legal. And law change, but we've got to.

Aubrey Marcus
Use those systems and just simple game theory of changing the incentives. And I even look at something like the prison industrial complex right. For example, 100%. They're paid more to keep more people in their beds. It's like a hotel.

They want full occupancy. That's their profit incentive. Are they actually genuinely, from a game theory perspective, incentivized for a great recidivism reduction program that keeps people out of coming back to prison? No, they want repeat customers as well. So these are the things that a government can do to actually switch the incentive structure.

And I don't know exactly how, but this is why an executive could actually start thinking about it. All right, let's switch the incentives. Let's switch the incentives. If you're a hospital in this region and you have fewer and fewer people coming, then you get rewards. If you're a prison and you have fewer and fewer people returning to that prison, it means you're doing a good job in allowing people to come back and reintegrate non criminally back into society.

Let's reward that. Let's find the way to actually flip the incentive structure. And that's, in my mind, money well spent and the free market can handle some of that. But for something like the prison system, it can't really handle that. Exactly.

Right. So we may need some actual governmental ways in which we can actually encourage correctly incentives to change the game theory. So when I go to policy conferences in DC, it's nauseating, right? We have a chronic disease crisis out there where we're literally being brought to our knees by metabolic dysfunction and the diabetes, heart disease, cancer rates. We talked about obesity, overweight 80%.

And you go today, I was at one last week in DC, and it's like literally people giving speeches about page 300 of the Medicare part D law and how we need to change, like two lines of it, right? It's minutiae. And, you know, the fundamental thing we need presidential leadership for is actually killing the sacred cows. Like, the fundamental structure of. It's not.

But it's not editing page 300 of Medicare part D. It's that every system of health care is incentivized for us to be sick. We have to attack those incentives. And it's actually with courage, not that hard. And this, again, I'm trying to really study what RFK is saying.

And we've got lawyers drafting executive orders and really, actually lawyers who have expertise with the FDA and creating policies, working with some of his team members to really, like, have things ready to sign on day one, you know, example. And there's. Go down the list. There's many of these. But with the stroke of a pen with a stroke of a pen.

Tomorrow you can cut pharma ads on tv news. Now, what will happen? What would a normal kind of environment look like? You would have unrelenting protests and every. Media entity in the country saying that this is an assault on free speech.

Calley Means
That's, you know, it's cutting their revenue.

He'd be vilified. Right? You'd have, all of you need somebody with the balls to say, fuck you. It will cost jobs, right? This will.

That will immediately cost tens of thousands of jobs in the media business. It will destroy a large part of an industry. You have to have someone with the balls of moral courage to put the pen across that paper. That's going to cause real issues. Another one.

The US. We have to get out of this idea that the US is. Is leading the world on anything with healthcare. I'll just say this. I'd ask anyone listening tell me a chronic disease treatment that has really led to rates of the chronic disease going down as we talked about.

Aubrey Marcus
No. The only thing that the US is probably leading in is maybe like. Like achilles repair surgery, brother. Aaron Rodgers got a pretty good 7%. You know, like seven.

Calley Means
And it's a cute 7% of cost. I got an Achilles last year. It was great. 100%. Although you can actually repair an Achilles without surgery.

But I got it. Totally agree. That's in the framework. But another stroke of pen, you can. And frankly, this is a bipartisan issue right now.

Biden's talking about it. You can make it that a drug company in the US can't charge a ten x lower price. The US drug companies in other countries, even Europe, charge ten times lower for drugs. You can't even make this up. They're bilking the US taxpayer because of the system that they've rigged.

Ozempic is more than ten times less expensive. In Denmark, the home country, they have a law where their own companies can't extort their own government. So Ozempic is like under $100 in Denmark. Yeah. This is just usury.

You could pass a law that us company. We can't do that. That you have to have flat rates. And we're not going to subsidize this, like, sick care system. You would have immediate hand wringing.

Right? You'd have pharmacy saying that you're crushing the engine of innovation. It's like, what innovation? If this is innovation, what's happening with chronic diseases? We can stop the innovation.

But you need a president that has the moral courage that when you have hundreds of millions of dollars of ads of him pushing a old person off a cliff, which will run when you have the NAACP saying he's being racist because they're paid by these pharma companies and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. You need somebody with balls to stand up to that. That's the key. As long as you have that. The last one, I'll just say, is the conflicted research.

The NIH is a grant making organization that is outsourced pharma R and D. As I said, Doctor Fauci oversaw. If you add it up, it's hundreds of billions of dollars, potentially more. He was the largest check writer in the country for medical research since 1980. Again, just a dramatic increase in autoimmune conditions, which he had oversight on, of chronic disease, which he had huge amount of oversight on.

He propelled this system that profited and. Grew from the fact that chronic diseases. Were growing up, and then all of. This research went to ways to marginally treat that. You could tomorrow say that the NIH can only do foundational research into why people are getting sick.

That's not what they do right now. They're outsourced Pharma R and D. That. Will immediately, you'll be accused, the president. Of attacking science, of attacking medical research.

Right. Even if you're not touching funding, even if you're saying that it can't go. To conflict researchers, you just need somebody with the. With the balls to stand up to those things. This really actually isn't complicated or hard.

It's about leadership. Yep. Yeah. And this is, you know, in many ways, this is analogous to right now. Mordred the deceiver has taken over Camelot.

Aubrey Marcus
You know, and America, for all of its problems and for all of its civil rights issues and for all of its challenges, it represented Camelot. It represented a place of freedom. It represented a place of hope. There was an american dream. Everybody wanted to emigrate here legally.

You know, they wanted to be a part of this energy that we had cultivated. We were cultivating. And again, not glossing over the problems. Of course we had problems. Everybody had problems.

We had problems, too. But now, clearly, Mordred, the dark wizard, the deceiver, has taken over and is ruling from the shadows. And all of these sock puppets and all of these talking heads are really being guided by Mordred behind the scenes. And now what we really need is the return of the king. The return of the king to come back and set the land back in order.

And, you know, we need that now more than ever. And, you know, look, I think some people are, you know, they get real. I think there's a Trump derangement syndrome, they call it, where they like to see Trump, and they just go like, tilt, like a pinball machine, where all the lights go off. And I'm not like that at all. I just think that there's a far more fucking capable human being.

There's a real someone who really stands with his heart forward, his eyes clear, and the absolute courage to do what is necessary. And the vision, that eagle eye vision, I think it's also an unbelievable synchronous metaphor that he's a falconer and he can see with that eagle's eye vision, the eye of the falcon, to actually see what the fuck is going on and actually affect the change that we need affected. And he's just. He's the right guy. He's the right guy.

And so from now until that moment when the last ballot is cast, like, I'm just pouring out that message. I've never been political. I've never even voted because I've never had belief in the system. I was probably libertarian by kind of. I had to choose.

But now it's like, no, this matters more than ever. And it's the return of the king time. And that's the part of the story we're in, and we're all a part of this. We're all a part of this fight. And I just deeply applaud you for efforts in being one of the knights of the round that is helping to give hope for Camelot's to return.

Calley Means
Thank you. I'm a small foot soldier, and just trying to use the tools at our disposal is something I'm interested in, is fighting these battles. And there's a bottoms up uprising happening, and there's cavalry coming from the top down, working with billionaires who are funding lawsuits against the food companies. We're drafting executive orders. Lawmakers are waking up.

I am optimistic. This is a great country. I think it still is the beacon on the hill. I really do. I mean, still, we have so much going for us.

I really do think, like, truly like talking to so many people on this journey and hearing about their health issues. Like, I think people want to be healthy and our country is still great, but we've got to get this right. We've got to get this right. Let's not get distracted with the bullshit issues they're trying to distract us on. We've got to stop being poisoned, and we've got to stop having the largest industries in our country wanting us sick.

We've got to attack that incentive. If we don't change that incentive, nothing else matters. Amen. Okay. Hey, let's fucking go.

Aubrey Marcus
Sir, Cali means. Yeah. Thanks for coming on, brother. And thanks for all the work that you've done. And just also, so thanks to everybody else who's given you a platform as well, you know, to Tucker and all the people.

I mean, that's one of the first places I found out about you. And, you know, just kudos to all the independent media that also has the courage to stand up and host people like yourself who can spread these messages. It's the bipartisan issue of our time. This is not divisive. Yeah.

Right on. Thank you, everybody. We love you. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning into this podcast with Cali means.

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I love you, and I'll see you next week.